Are We Too Lazy To Fight

[CPLHUNTER]

I've wondered for some time if Americans as a majority would be willing to protest an unjust goverment. From the people that I encounter, the overwhelming majority seem to rather blind to world & national events.

People seem to be ok if they have their TV, internet (MP.NET :)), cars, food.

So I wonder what would happen if those "essentials" were taken away by higher taxes, or another government related laws.

It seems that people in Lithuania don't have an issue protesting.

Do you think this could happen in the US? It did in the 60's ;)



LITHUANIA A woman attends protest in front of Lithuania's Parliament in Vilnius January 16, 2009. Lithuanian police used tear gas, dogs and rubber bullets on Friday to push back a crowd from the Baltic state's parliament, after people threw stones and bottles at the building during a rowdy anti-government protest. The crowd was part of a wider demonstration called by unions in a country where the centre-right government, only in power since elections in October, has raised taxes and cut spending after an economic downturn hit budget revenues. *******/Ints Kalnins (LITHUANIA)

[Gawel1410]

I would say that if our situation started to worsen or if there was a major conflict, we would show up in great force protesting and such, it just requires good organization and a good leader to lead the protest.

[LaoSexMachine]

Might seem unjust to one person and alright with the next. I'm pissed that I pay school tax since even though I don't have kids.

[Bia]

People in general are stupid and easily amused.

Yes, many many things would have to be taken away before anything could spark a movement.

We're doomed... it's simply a matter of time.

[Bia]

I'm pissed that I pay school tax since even though I don't have kids.Ilogical...

Those kids are part of the society we share. We count on a social network to live... unless you're Ted Kisensky. You reap the benefits of educated humans... as do we all.

Someone, likely many, paid taxes when you were in school and they had no children either.


no?

[Hollis]

Might seem unjust to one person and alright with the next. I'm pissed that I pay school tax since even though I don't have kids.


I worked that out one day. Cost per year per student was $3500.00 (this was a number of years ago) Then times that by 13, for K through 12.

Now take your property school tax and divide that into the above amount.

Now multiply that by the number of family in your house. It came out I was a ahead of the game.

I don't think I am too lazy to fight, I just don't want to miss beer thirty.

[LaoSexMachine]

Ilogical...

Those kids are part of the society we share. We count on a social network to live... unless you're Ted Kisensky. You reap the benefits of educated humans... as do we all.

Someone, likely many, paid taxes when you were in school and they had no children either.


no?

I know that but that doesn't mean I can't be pissed at times about it. Wait until you own property and have to pay. There will be days when you just get pissed. There is a huge apartment complex near my house. Two buses stop there. I KNOW the parents don't pay school taxes.

[Bia]

I know that but that doesn't mean I can't be pissed at times about it. Wait until you own property and have to pay. There will be days when you just get pissed. There is a huge apartment complex near my house. Two buses stop there. I KNOW the parents don't pay school taxes.We do pay. My landlord told me quote, "I know the ad said $XXX for rent but I have to add $XX because property taxes went up again"



Start a business like Apt rental.

There is a thing called overhead as few business are total profit.
They build the cost of all overhead into their price. If it's a box of cereal or an apartment... they charge us depending on what they are paying out. Paint goesup? So does rent. Property tax goes up... so does rent.

Funny you imagined all this time only homeowners pay property tax.
We all do.

[Hollis]

Depending on state, Business get hit the hardest, there is a personal property tax, for equipment, machinery, etc. Some states also have that tax for citizens on their personal effects too.

The best resource a country has, is its people.

[Gerry301]

People in general are stupid and easily amused.

Yes, many many things would have to be taken away before anything could spark a movement.

We're doomed... it's simply a matter of time.


Well said, and very true. The only issue is how long the inevitable can be staved off.

[sinophile]

Well said, and very true. The only issue is how long the inevitable can be staved off.

I think you're referring to a famous quote by Machiavelli...

Men sooner forget the death of their father than the loss of their patrimony.

His point was that government that provides economic prosperity will be forgiven for mistakes that cost lives.

[Policía Loco]

I think a lot of Americans view protesting as distasteful and maybe even unprogressive. Seeing a politicized pep ralley turn into blocking traffic, destroying property, wasting tax payer's money to maintain order, etc., puts a sour taste in people's mouths. It was shocking and a last ditch effort 30-40 years ago but today its the first avenue taken. Which has led to it becoming overused, with noone paying attention to those that travel from city to city acting stupid rather than being productive.

[LineDoggie]

I think a lot of Americans view protesting as distasteful and maybe even unprogressive. Seeing a politicized pep ralley turn into blocking traffic, destroying property, wasting tax payer's money to maintain order, etc., puts a sour taste in people's mouths. It was shocking and a last ditch effort 30-40 years ago but today its the first avenue taken. Which has led to it becoming overused, with noone paying attention to those that travel from city to city acting stupid rather than being productive.

Thats funny, as most of the Protests that do exactly that are So-Called "Progressives" Organized and led. :)

[philbob]

As long as there is food in the bellies of the masses there is not going to be a real desire to protests

[1curious]

I had thought about it few times. My answer is NO, I don’t see mass protests on a national scale even if the current economic situation deteriorates.

This does not preclude local rallies and protests but I don’t think they’ll spread nation wide.

American nation is still being formed, many fragile ties between us are masked by the relative prosperity of the absolute majority. Even when unemployment gets to 8-10%, over 90% have jobs and can enjoy the basic life style they are used to. Plus, most Americans are not lazy. We are self-absorbed. It would take a lot to pull us out of the ignorant state. In a way, it's a blessing.

As the history shows, for a mass protest to snowball into revolution, one needs EXTERNAL factors. THAT is an open and unpredictable question.

[paracrusader]

Americans protest all the time, to the point that it's lost it's meaning. College kids attend protests just to do it.

Any government, especially where leaders are elected, will fail if it bows to the will of every protest. It's called anarchy. Protests, especially violent ones, should never dictate policy. Allowing them to do so only encourages such behavior in the future.

[lightfire]

I've wondered for some time if Americans as a majority would be willing to protest an unjust goverment. From the people that I encounter, the overwhelming majority seem to rather blind to world & national events.

People seem to be ok if they have their TV, internet (MP.NET :)), cars, food.

So I wonder what would happen if those "essentials" were taken away by higher taxes, or another government related laws.

It seems that people in Lithuania don't have an issue protesting.

Do you think this could happen in the US? It did in the 60's ;)

Since I am actually FROM Lithuania, so I can tell you, that protests here has a dual side. At first glance - they are justified (Note - protests, not riots, that's another story), since people used to live in a growing state of wealth, reasonably lower taxes etc.

Now it's quite a radical turn and it happened real quick like. The new government was sworn in before Christams and the country took a bit of a U turn in tax policy.

It happened to quickly, thus buisness is in danger (essp the small one) and the effects of worldwide economic crisis are being felt. And in that context, some unplesant for the government issues arise, like - growing taxes AND growing salaries for the government people. Bonuses for the government and municipal employers (and essp chiefs) are being paid.

Naturally, that angers people and they protest, cause they feel like nobody is listening to them. Protest, a demonstration is a form to speak louder - they should hear.


HOWEVER

In our country long years of economic growth was a bit of a bublle. All that was gained was consumed the other day. No reserves for the balck day, coruption, everyday scandals.

The government lived like this and, to be honest, the people lived like this. Insane loans and prices for homes with no means to control upcoming economic crisis in the world (which was in fact known about a year ago). People did not think much about the future, nor about the need to develope, well here ya go...

no free cheese anymore, even if that free cheese was third class before.

So what do you do? You go protest. What does that change? By now - nothing at all, only more preasure, and chances for the populists to gain muscules.

I doubt anything like that would happen in USA. It's bad, but not that bad so far. Years will follow, but I doubt you could publiclly hang "fat cats" or anyone responsible for the crisis. Your potential is too high as well, lots of smart and educated people.

Sure, that will be a challenge for the new administration, and since there are lots of hopes, there might be a huge dissapointment in the end, that could lead to some real change like in sixties.

But not today.

[R4ND0M]

Protest in USA against higher taxes & stuff ? Are you a commie or something rofl watch out you will get on the FBI watch list rofl

In your country its hard to fall apart with the daily politics, because any alternative reminds people of the Nazi and Communistic regime even tho most of them dont know almost anything about them, they just see the bad sides of it and how it all went very very wrong. OFC trough Hollywood, what else.

I think the freedom of speech is one of the most absurd things in democracy. Why ? In the totalitarian regimes if you said something contrary to the mainstream doctrine you would be heard and sanctioned. In democracy they let you say whatever you want. But why ? Because of some high moral and law standards ? Well maybe that were the intentions in the beginning but now its just because they know you are powerless and you cant change anything to be honest. But as soon as there is an issue which would trigger disturbance, they ban to speak about it and sanction it. Pure hypocrisy.

[DetailedEntrails]

I've wondered for some time if Americans as a majority would be willing to protest an unjust goverment. From the people that I encounter, the overwhelming majority seem to rather blind to world & national events.

People seem to be ok if they have their TV, internet (MP.NET :)), cars, food.

So I wonder what would happen if those "essentials" were taken away by higher taxes, or another government related laws.

It seems that people in Lithuania don't have an issue protesting.

Do you think this could happen in the US? It did in the 60's ;)

Unfortunately those liberal hippies are the only ones who do it now, and mostly to seem cool and revolutionary. You read my mind, people are to damn comfortable. They got their xbox, HD TV, and ipods and their happy.

[Erik2a4]

Protest in USA against higher taxes & stuff ? Are you a commie or something rofl watch out you will get on the FBI watch list rofl

In your country its hard to fall apart with the daily politics, because any alternative reminds people of the Nazi and Communistic regime even tho most of them dont know almost anything about them, they just see the bad sides of it and how it all went very very wrong. OFC trough Hollywood, what else.

I think the freedom of speech is one of the most absurd things in democracy. Why ? In the totalitarian regimes if you said something contrary to the mainstream doctrine you would be heard and sanctioned. In democracy they let you say whatever you want. But why ? Because of some high moral and law standards ? Well maybe that were the intentions in the beginning but now its just because they know you are powerless and you cant change anything to be honest. But as soon as there is an issue which would trigger disturbance, they ban to speak about it and sanction it. Pure hypocrisy.

Damn Nature...you scary.

[Mastermind]

My answer is yes. We are a very peaceful people. I look back over our history and see we, as a people, have put up with amazing abuses by our own government.

Today, I have lost my feel for my fellow citizens. I honestly never grasped how far the education system had progressed in brain washing our youth into mind numbed little relativists who have no realy understanding now of history or heritage. Each progressive generation of publically educated children have been worse than the previous...they now think it more important to go to the mall than to resist a communist take over of our nation or to protect our heritage of being a Christain based nation.

However, I think as time progresses and the green commies take over, and the average spoiled brats see their internet freedoms and casual wealth taken away and the political "haves' abusing their wealth and power more and more...there will be an uprising.

I cite the amazing conundrum of the violent protests over the G-7 conferences. Look at the city destroying soccer and hockey riots. These kids are quite capable of raising absolute hell if they are pushed too far.

[Walter Sobchak]

It's strange to me that Americans have one of the greatest protest vehicles on Earth, but they use it sparingly and often in an uninformed manner: The Vote. CON-gress has a single-digit or low double-digit approval rating but we seem to think our guy or gal is great, while it's all those "other crooks" who are the problem.

Sadly, we have the government we deserve. We can cry, protest, post on message forums and complain at the corner bar all we want, but until we learn some basic fundamental government and economics, we will have a sorry government that just feeds the masses' short-term needs without considering the long term.

If you are under 30, you're standard of living will be radically different when you and your children start paying off these "stimulus" and "bailout" packages. You will never collect a dime of that 7.5 percent payroll tax you're paying in today as social security. These government ponzi schemes will die of their own failed ability to sustain themselves. You young people will be left holding the bag... and their will be a whole new generation of politicians with government solutions to "save the day".

Vote with your minds, not your hearts and feelings. Hold your elected officials accountable...

[notherhen40]

People do not care. Its sad, because this leads to complacency. Someone mentioned public education....they are spot on. The biggest scam is public education. No child left behind? That stupid policy encourages kids not to learn. 80% of grades are attendance. Why are we rewarding attendance, and not actual work? And, that policy does not work...I have never seen so many drop outs in all my life. Since that policy went into effect, record number of kids now do not graduate high school.

The reason I brought that issue up, is because its a shame the way our kids are being indoctrinated into sub humble servants.... no incentive to excel..no leaders from our youth forthcoming. We as a country as a whole days are numbered. People are getting fed up with elitist politiking....and if the economy gets worse, look out. That will be the spark for the fire storm thats brewing. No matter what government says, people do not vote any more. They are fed up with wishy washy choices of people who run for office. Corruption is rampant all through all levels of government. And, when people feel as though they have no control over their country, and its govrnment, revolution starts. So in closing I give you this......

I am an American. I have lost faith in my government. I have witnessed corruption, greed, and violation of constitutional rights....and I demand change.

[Walter Sobchak]

I am an American. I have lost faith in my government. I have witnessed corruption, greed, and violation of constitutional rights....and I demand change.

You have two choices, podna: fight with bullets or ballots.

I'm amazed that everyone is so mad right now, but until we harness that anger and start changing things, nothing will change.

What we're missing right now is real leadership. In my opinion, anyone who is NOT a lawyer is better qualified to hold office than the best lawyer on the planet!

[non]

80% of grades are attendance. Why are we rewarding attendance, and not actual work?
I think the attendance thingy is for certain school districts to enforce truancy to get funding in the hopes of keeping the larger majority of their student body off the street corners slingin 'lower education'. I doubt it's very effective at that, either.


(notherhen40)no incentive to excel..
It depends on the 'neighborhood'. JMO, based on what I've heard from parents(I'm not one), but kids have alot of homework these days...and the pressure to get into a good university is there from the start.

Not that I disagree with you about the policy you've mentioned.


(notherhen40)I have witnessed corruption, greed, and violation of constitutional rights....
All of these have been occurring since the drafting of the Constitution, but, yeah, the word 'enema' comes to mind when looking at some of the things going on here and now.

[Erik2a4]

Oh, I don't think I'd advocate fighting in the US with bullets. Seems a bit counter-productive and Weather Underground-ish.

Stick to the political processes.

[non]

Mastermind:I honestly never grasped how far the education system had progressed in brain washing our youth into mind numbed little relativists who have no realy understanding now of history or heritage.
Yeah, the world got bigger. Sucks.


Mastermind:they now think it more important to go to the mall
They shop on-line, older fella.


Mastermind:than to resist a communist take over of our nation or to protect our heritage of being a Christain based nation.
They have a store in the local mall for 'resisting commy take-over and other godless arse lovers + party gifts'. Right next door to the store that sells Che tees.
United States of America is not a Christian based nation. It was founded by Christians who decided that religion was not a good thing to "base" a nation upon. Ironically, they did take issue with certain facets of the retail business.

[notherhen40]

Once upon a time, I took an oath to defend my country, from all enemies, foreign or domestic. I still believe in my country. Just not the sham of a political process. It is a shame, when 1/3-3/4 of voters do not vote, because of the politico party we have now...note I said party...ideologies the same..very little difference as to who is running for what.

As to the disgusting thing we call public education, better go and look at what local school districts are doing. Its sickening. Grades for attendance...I thought kids were supposed to learn history....they do not. I thought kids learned math...they do, but when it comes to percentages and business math, most do not know how to add and subtract..handy for those check books banks like you to have. Reading.....the kids did not know how to read when I went to school, and they sure do not know now. But ask a kid what he will get into trouble for asking the types of questions that should be asked of people in positions of responsibility should be asked, and most do not care or they do not have a clue. Most still do not know how to fill out a resume or a job application. But yet, we throw more cash at a broken and decadent system of government, and we turn our backs and pray that we will be a better country. And this is where we are at today...a dying democracy whose time has come.

America like we know now, will change for the worse. And, blood will flow. The question is, are we willing to fight for our rights? Or are we going to sit by and watch others die protecting what you and I protected a time ago.

[Erik2a4]

Exactly whose blood is going to flow?

[notherhen40]

Exactly whose blood is going to flow?

Your average, ignorance is bliss American, sadly. But, I only hate to see what would take our governments place in power....and I can almost promise it would be worse than whats in there now.

Some one earlier mentioned something about free speech...and the topic of the thread best sums it up. And yes, most are too lazy to fight for what we have now, and fix it. Instead, most would rather sit back and not pay attention to what is going on. We have now, free speech, a choice in our type of government, freedom of worship, and freedom to speak out against the government, without the threat of persecution. And with complacency, we lose those freedoms daily. And, overtime this leads to revolution.

[Adux]

when pushed, everybody will fight

[Mastermind]

Yeah, the world got bigger. Sucks.


They shop on-line, older fella.


They have a store in the local mall for 'resisting commy take-over and other godless arse lovers + party gifts'. Right next door to the store that sells Che tees.
United States of America is not a Christian based nation. It was founded by Christians who decided that religion was not a good thing to "base" a nation upon. Ironically, they did take issue with certain facets of the retail business.
Your wrong...

[California Joe]

Yeah, he is. But he does it in a very practised manner.

Now excuse me while I go load some magazines, apparently the blood is about to start flowing somewhere.

[One Man Gang]

"Are we too lazy to fight?"

The election of Obama ended that debate.