Hizbollah action movie

[Javehn]

http://www.moqawama.org/gallery/clip/opp/aramta1.html

I noticed someone in here talking Arabic . Can he interprit when is going on in the movie ? It's called operation Aramta 2000 , and I strongly bellieve it's just a training tape of Hizbollah , and not any real attack (for one , i don't remember any outpost attacks on 2000, secondly , that year IDF left Lebanon , thirdly , no way they would get to that level of the outpost allive if it was for real) .

So , someone in here speaks Arabic and can translate what is goin on in the movie ?

[big80a2]

really looks like a trining on some deserted israeli/moc post.
since when looking at the diffrent camera angles they are almost all around it....
and there is no returning fire or what so ever.

[One?]

I can't view the video, but is that the one where someone plants a bomb near the fence?

If so that outpost was the most notorius, and they wanted it for quite a while. They were only able to infiltrate it a couple months before Israel withdrew. It is not a training mission its the real thing.



I can view it, here is what is going on according to the tv anchor:

Support units firing rockets at the outpost to prepare/open a path for those infiltrating. Basicaly taking out the heavy guns, and tanks (if any).


The second view is another cameraman showing the damage from the rockets. Finaly they are providing cover fire to plant the explosives.

Javehn I hope thats enough? Unless you need word by word translation. And that post belongs to the SLA not IDF.

[AirZone]

I dont get it... they hit the **** outta some poor post of SLA just to put a poor flag and to do some zig hail/allah akbar ****?

what ever... :roll:
its like catch the flag game :| (till IDF use artillery and it starts to be a mess :lol:)

[Javehn]

The craziest **** is that those guys run under their own fire !!! When you see mortars explotions , it's their own mortars !!!!!! And they do it time after time . Or those guys are hardcore proffesionals , or they are just psychos .

Thanks , one . Actually , if that's SLA outpost , that's explains a lot . It wouldn't get close to that in IDF outpost .

What were the outcomes of that cases ? It seems that they do more then just stick a flag . They are clearing the batteries of the outpost .

[Mr. Nielsen]

I believe it was reported that, before the israeli withdrawal from lebanon, hizbollah overran israeli posts several time.

But that there were bunkers beneath the post so that the israeli soldiers would hide there, while hizbollah were planting their flag on top and shooting PR movies.

Can anyone elaborate on that?

[Javehn]

Yea ... Newsflash :roll:
Hizballah never "overruned" IDF outposts :roll: . The best they could do is to get close to outer batteries to stick a flag , and once they got really lucky and one got inside guarding post and had a fist fight with a guard . Guard kicked his ass (or maybe not , it was my naighbour ) , and the Hizi guy took off . And once they got really really really lucky , and they did a little walk inside the outpost for less then a minute (and then offcorse they droped dead) .

So , perhaps overruned is not very good term to use , ok ? It takes much much more to infiltrate to IDF outpost .


But that there were bukers beneath the post so that Israeli soldiers would hide there , while Hizballah were planting their flag on top and shooting PR movies

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

I am not shure how to react to this , but as always , your information sources are despicable rofl . Soldiers would hide there ... Well , excellent job as always, keep doing fuсkups like that .

[Mr. Nielsen]

I'm quite sure the article's in the danish newspaper (no internet then) said it was israeli outposts. But if you are sure it couldn't possible have happended to an israeli outpost, then the paper probaly confused the israelis and SLA.

[Javehn]

Yes , very most probably . SLA outposts where overruned several times .

Out of curiosity , for real it was said that IDF soldiers sit in bunkers under the guarding posts during the attacks ? So , little question , who would guard the outpost then ?

[Mr. Nielsen]

It's years ago that I read it. But I suppose the idea was that they would have entered the bunker (sounded like an air raid style bunker, not one you shoot out of) just prior to being overrun. Which would make some sense in regard to keeping casualties down, that is avoid a close quarters battle where superioty in artilley etc are useless and the attackers would anyway have to retreat in minutes from such an exposed position.

[One?]

Yes , very most probably . SLA outposts where overruned several times .

Out of curiosity , for real it was said that IDF soldiers sit in bunkers under the guarding posts during the attacks ? So , little question , who would guard the outpost then ?


Yes thats true. They have underground bunkers, and those were videotaped and some people saw them after the withdrawl. There are schematics of one of the underground bunkers somewhere on the net.

They would go underground when the fight gets hot. As for that mission they blew up the post on the heads of the SLA.

Hezbollah infiltrated a Givati post, retrieved intel, until an IDF soldeir found him. They had a fight and then he retreated. Raising the flag was enough for IDF command to get pissed off.

Javehn yes those mortars are their own. But before the attack takes place alot of recon and intel is collected. So they know exactly what road to use, and they know were the mortars/rockets will be falling. Get your IDF buddies to show you some hi-res videos. Those vids were aired back in the 90's. They show from the time they gather intel (the IDF soldeir was peeing on his helmet and didn't notice anyone was below him), till the time of the attack.

[One?]

Yes , very most probably . SLA outposts where overruned several times .

Out of curiosity , for real it was said that IDF soldiers sit in bunkers under the guarding posts during the attacks ? So , little question , who would guard the outpost then ?


Yes thats true. They have underground bunkers, and those were videotaped and some people saw them after the withdrawl. There are schematics of one of the underground bunkers somewhere on the net. They use the machine guns in the same way they are mounted on some APCs (i dont know what the system is called). But those guns are taken out by rockets before the infiltration attempt.

They would go underground when the fight gets hot. As for that mission they blew up the post on the heads of the SLA.

Hezbollah infiltrated a Givati post, retrieved intel, until an IDF soldeir found him. They had a fight and then he retreated. Raising the flag was enough for IDF command to get pissed off.

Javehn yes those mortars are their own. But before the attack takes place alot of recon and intel is collected. So they know exactly what road to use, and they know were the mortars/rockets will be falling. Get your IDF buddies to show you some hi-res videos. Those vids were aired back in the 90's. They show from the time they gather intel (the IDF soldeir was peeing on his helmet and didn't notice anyone was below him), till the time of the attack.

[gilgoul]

Let`s put it like that, it seems that the hizbullah has some very higly trained and motivated operators, some of them being trained in IED, AT and demolition work to a level that would impress most of western soldiers.
From that to draw some conclusion about overunning post is kind of funny.
How this can become political, Even if they did overun an IDF post, wich, up to the withdrawal doean`st seem to have occured, they did not succeed to do more than a symbolic operation, for nothing more than PR purpose, with very heavy cost in retaliation afterward.
Second point, It is not only in Israel but in every army that cares a minimum for it`s soldiers, under heavy fire, every nonessential personel has the duty to find shelter and not be unnessecary harmed, so if part of the garrison goes in bunker and keeps observer/guards outside to a minimum, it is only logical, it wouldn`t help anyone if the garrison was to be cut into pieces by the aty/mortar fire, only to become a new bargain fr the hizbullah (remember what they always did with our POW/MIA).
About thie video, it could be an IDF post not blown up during the withdrawal, and it is shamelly tru that some elements of advanced outposts had little warning and had to evacuate in a hurry, taking only the essentials and leaving behind few personal effects, under fire from the hizbullah, wich doesn`t costitute in anyway a military victory for the hizbullah, but much more a PR one.

[Javehn]

I know IDF outposts had a underground bunjers . They called "Submarines" . Nothing secret about it . Soldiers who were out of duty were present there . It would help keeping casualties from bombardment to minimum .

Nielsen is talking about underground bunkers under the guarding positions , and guard were getting down rom their posts during the bombardment , now this one is absurd . It's known tactic of Hizbollah , to try and approach the outpost during bombardments . So , in this critical moment , you really think guard would leave their position and go "hiding" , as he put it ?


Let`s put it like that, it seems that the hizbullah has some very higly trained and motivated operators, some of them being trained in IED, AT and demolition work to a level that would impress most of western soldiers.


I bellieve most impress , and they will out do them . They have at list my respect . The only guys who self tought how to fire ATGM missiles from low spot to high spot were Hizbollah fighters.

[Mark_Aspen]

BITACHON SADEH, BITACHON SADEH.

Now they know where we keep the Egozis, Bamba, Krembos and Luf.

[W(M)D]

BITACHON SADEH, BITACHON SADEH.

Now they know where we keep the Egozis, Bamba, Krembos and Luf.

They can keep the luf, putrid stuff! LOL

[OldRecon]

As for the quality of Hezbollah fighters, there was some rumour about during the early 90's that they were trained by South African instructors with Recce background? Any substantiating evidence for that?
And what was that round shaped thing one of the guys carried on the back?
The attackers also seemed pretty well and uniformly equipped.
I also find it somewhat strange that the defenders didn't order artillery support directly on top of their own position.
Either by radio or some pre-arranged emergency means like a flare signal or something of that order.
Have been told of at least one night attack on an SLA position by Hezbollah, where the entire crew manning the position were wiped out.
Otherwise the most famous Hezbollah video I guess is the one where they managed to set fire to a "dug in " Merkava in an IDF position with a guided AT-missile.
That was also some time between 1990 and the pullout of Israeli forces from Southern Lebanon.

[Mark_Aspen]

For small unit operatons by "irregular" forces, I'd rate Hizbulloh today at 8-9/10. It used to be they'd disperse under coordinated return fire, and limited their attacks to SLA outposts. In the year leading up to our withdrawel from Lebanon, they improved their tactical coordination and grew bolder.

I'd say at the time 60-70% of it was calculating that we wouldn't take undue risks since everyone knew we'd be leaving soon (no one wants to be last man down), so they guessed we'd have a real defensive mind-set. In the last 6-9 months there we let them come to us. The other 40% was real gains from training and weapons by them. Notice that the AMAL and Druze militias have nowhere near the capabilities of Hizbulloh now.

I think their mistake is going to be in underestimating what steps Israel will take to defend the north.

[One?]

Javehn the guard in the guard posts must

A) hide underground or leave their post
B) hold their position and die.

The first thing they do is destroy the guard posts, so why would anyone want to stay in them.

[Javehn]

Javehn the guard in the guard posts must

A) hide underground or leave their post
B) hold their position and die.

The first thing they do is destroy the guard posts, so why would anyone want to stay in them.

If the guards would leave their posts , then it's not problem at all to infiltrate the base . That's the reason they guarding the post . Guarding is not to take a hike when **** is hitting the fan .

And about destroying guard positions , well ... This is comming to OPSEC allready .

[Vanya]

Mah Ze Pitom kulam Israelim po?

[AirZone]

yesh po maspik :D

[W(M)D]

Airzone - Ain Maspik Yisraelim Po, Anu Zrichum Le'Hishtalet Al Kulom!!

[Javehn]

Gibrish ? :)

[W(M)D]

Dont you mean gibberish? You should hear my accented Ivrit!!
I wish that I had Ivrit font on my keyboard, would be easier to write.

[Javehn]

I mean Hebrish :) .

And I have 3 language keyboard , and it's really confuses me ... :roll:

[W(M)D]

That is why I was never a 'kashar' to any of my 'mefakdim'!

[anonymous individual]

Maybe John Wo can co-produce an action-packed movie with the Hezbollah!

But I don't think anyone would take the movie seriously since they both SUCK.

[Mark_Aspen]

Javehn Posted:
Gibrish

I thought you meant Jibril, like in the lyrics:

"ken zehu, ken zehu..., hayu gam k'aleh etsel Ahmed Jibril..."

Ani hoshev sh' yesh luach b'azeh makom, sh' hevre-ah shertu b'tsahal.
(There's a board somewhere whose members were in the Israel Army.)

[OldRecon]

Maybe John Wo can co-produce an action-packed movie with the Hezbollah!

But I don't think anyone would take the movie seriously since they both SUCK.

Suck they may, but they've become quite good at their game over time.
And watching someone who's good at what they do isn't the worst way to learn or pick up new ideas. Especially when it come to operating without the benefit of a sizeable amount of artillery or air support.
(and still no one seems to have an idea with regards to the South African involvement with Hezbolla? :roll:).

[One?]

Maybe John Wo can co-produce an action-packed movie with the Hezbollah!

But I don't think anyone would take the movie seriously since they both SUCK.

Suck they may, but they've become quite good at their game over time.
And watching someone who's good at what they do isn't the worst way to learn or pick up new ideas. Especially when it come to operating without the benefit of a sizeable amount of artillery or air support.
(and still no one seems to have an idea with regards to the South African involvement with Hezbolla? :roll:).

South africa had nothing to do with training them. If you said Iran it would make better sense.


Javehn, when you see guard posts blow up, I doubt anyone in there is still alive. If hezbollah operators are shooting from the paremeter into the base then I dont think there are any guards. They would be hiding from their little windows.

[Javehn]

That is the reason why I said , that it can't be attack on IDF outpost . Everything else , perhaps .

[OldRecon]

Maybe John Wo can co-produce an action-packed movie with the Hezbollah!

But I don't think anyone would take the movie seriously since they both SUCK.

Suck they may, but they've become quite good at their game over time.
And watching someone who's good at what they do isn't the worst way to learn or pick up new ideas. Especially when it come to operating without the benefit of a sizeable amount of artillery or air support.
(and still no one seems to have an idea with regards to the South African involvement with Hezbolla? :roll:).

South africa had nothing to do with training them. If you said Iran it would make better sense.


Javehn, when you see guard posts blow up, I doubt anyone in there is still alive. If hezbollah operators are shooting from the paremeter into the base then I dont think there are any guards. They would be hiding from their little windows.

If my memory serves me right, think the rumours that South African mercs were to be involved in the trainning of Hezbolla members were mentioned in a general article on the situation in Southern Lebanon published in the mag Combat survival during the early 1990's, some time after the end of the "first" Gulf war and the liberation of Kuwait from Iraqi occupation.
Don't have a copy of the mag in question though, as I only sifted through it in a newsstand while passing time away on a railway station.
To me the skills of hezbollah at small unit tactics seem somewhat sharper than those of the Iranian armed forces.
Thus if Hezbollah have been trained by Iranians, how come they are better at small unit tactics than the Iranians themselves?

[One?]

hezbollah has been fighting almost daily since 1982 till 2000. Those who do the actual attack on posts are veterans for the most part. The new ones are usualy in support units or carry out ambushes. But the training is done in lebanon. Advanced training on AT rockets and such I believe is done in Iran. They can afford to waste AT rockets for training.

OldRecon have you seen iranians fight in small groups, or any iranian SF unit in action?

[muede]

One... Iranian "small unit tactics" ~ Human wave? (children tied together and forced to storm the enemy lines.. like in Iran-Iraq...)
Oh and.. the god damn video doesnt seem to be working anymore. :|

[khukuri]

"To me the skills of hezbollah at small unit tactics seem somewhat sharper than those of the Iranian armed forces.
Thus if Hezbollah have been trained by Iranians, how come they are better at small unit tactics than the Iranians themselves?"

Iran have been famous in irak-iran area about beeing good at small unit tactics. Infeltrations by small groups, assasins, sabotage and **** like that.

Alot of the murders in irak- between big shia persons themselves, those that been made by iran supported fractions have been the more "proffesional" ones.
Ive heard alot about their big box of several "tricks".