Israel Tops List of UN Pariahs

[walford]

Does this say more about Israel or about the UN?


Camera-Ready Victims (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YmU0ZjM4NmQyYTZlZjk4NTQ2ZTYzNGI0NWFhM2M4ZGQ=)
Hamas practices human sacrifice; the world shrugs.

...as many as 1,000 Gazans (unverified) may have been killed and many more wounded by Israel’s counterattack against Hamas, whose missiles have rained down on southern Israel’s schools, homes, and businesses for several years. Many of those killed by the Israel Defense Forces were Hamas operatives. (Israel turns out to have excellent intelligence about their locations, and in several instances the IDF phoned its target before attacking, giving him an opportunity to save his family by leaving the house.) But many were not terrorists, because Hamas has perfected a kind of camera-ready human sacrifice—placing its launchers in playgrounds, hospitals, and neighborhoods crowded with mothers and children.

Every innocent life lost is a tragedy and a horror. But if you watch the news in Brussels or Boston and certainly in Islamabad or Caracas, you will get the distorted impression that the Palestinian plight is the worst on earth—an impression that is reinforced almost daily by the United Nations. We in the United States pay almost no attention to the resolutions, findings, and advocacy of the U.N., regarding it as a font of gasbaggery, stinking hypocrisy, and cant.

But the rest of the world does pay attention.

According to Eye on the U.N., in 2008, 68 percent of General Assembly resolutions regarding violations of human rights targeted Israel. Afghanistan was cited in 4 percent of the resolutions, along with Azerbaijan, Georgia, the United States, and a few others. Russia, Sudan, China, and Saudi Arabia, to name just a few, were not cited at all. In 2007, 32 countries were mentioned for human-rights violations, though most just barely. Israel once again topped the list with 121 actions taken against it. Sudan came in second with 61, Myanmar third with 41. The U.S. was No. 4, with 39 actions, tied with the Democratic Republic of the Congo!

Regarding the plight of Gaza, remember this: Between 1948, when Israel was created, and 1967, when Israel captured Gaza in a defensive war, the Gaza Strip was administered by Egypt. During those 19 years, the Egyptians never offered citizenship to the Palestinians living in Gaza, nor did they permit them free transit from the Strip into Egypt proper. They did nothing to encourage the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. In fact, in 1958, Egypt’s President Nasser formally annulled the “All Palestine Government”—a remnant of the Palestinian state the Arabs had rejected in 1948. Egypt, like all of the other Arab states and, importantly, the U.N., chose to keep the Palestinians bereft and stateless—a permanent and growing dagger aimed at Israel.

Even more instructive is this: When Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, Gaza’s residents had a golden opportunity to begin to build the sort of state they had claimed to desire. The Israelis even left behind the infrastructure to give the Palestinians a start: roads, houses, swimming pools, fish farms, nurseries, orchards, and factories. The Palestinians chose to kill one another (see Jonathan Schanzer’s new book, Hamas vs. Fatah) and to fire missiles across the border at Israel instead. Apologists like Columbia’s Rashid Khalidi protest that Israel continued to control sea lanes, borders, and air space around Gaza and cut off aid after the Palestinians elected Hamas. Well, Hamas didn’t seem to have any trouble importing longer- and longer-range Iranian missiles despite Israel’s blockade. And in any case, despite the advice of some hardliners in Israel, the Israeli government continued to permit humanitarian supplies to come through.

Since the start of 2007, 16,000 civilians have been killed in fighting. Not in Gaza, so you may have missed it. It was in Somalia, where an Islamist movement is fighting Ethiopian troops. This is the 18th year of civil strife in that country.

In Sri Lanka, some 70,000 people have perished in a civil war that has flared on and off since 1983. The regime in Burma has killed thousands and forced an estimated 800,000 into involuntary servitude.

In the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Zaire), 45,000 people are dying every month. Nearly 5.5 million have died since 1998 in a conflict that grew out of the violence in Rwanda and spread. Half of those deaths were of children under the age of five, according to the International Rescue Committee. The violence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo has caused more human devastation than any conflict since World War II.

In Darfur, Sudan, more than 200,000 people have been killed and 2.5 million made homeless by violence.

To cite these sad data is not to suggest that suffering is tolerable in any particular case—but merely to observe that the world is strangely blinkered in choosing the tragedies to which it responds.As I had noted in a piece I wrote (http://the-big-pic.org/unilateralism.html) comparing European 'multi-lateralism' to American 'unilateralism':
The United Nations has abjectly failed in its mission to keep the peace and foster prosperity. Some wars have been prevented, but people still have died in the limited conflicts that have erupted since the Second World War. A far greater number of people have been killed by their own governments during that same period:
• The People’s Republic of China – 35 million
• Post WWII Soviet Union over 20 million [more than 40 million pre-war]
• Khmer Rouge – 2.5 million
• Viet Nam – 1.7 million
• Poland – 1.6 million
• North Korea – 1.7 million
• Pakistan – 1.5 million

The UN has had little to say about this wholesale slaughter – before, during or since. Instead the government that the UN has condemned the most is the state of Israel, with 65 formal Security Council resolutions passed against the Jewish state from 1955-92 [30 of which having been vetoed by the United States] (Findley 192-194). [This figure is often cited a prima facie proof of Israel’s fundamental illegitimacy – and American unfairness [as it is in Findley's book] -- rather than the UN’s absurd hypocrisy.] Thus, while governments killed their own by the millions, Israel became the UN’s number one Pariah State.The UN is irrelevant because it gives governments that are held into place by force the same voice as those that are legitimized by a popular mandate.

It is not possible for an organization foster peace, prosperity and freedom if it includes regimes that are at war with their own people.

Thus we see such absurdities as Israel being the #1 Pariah state for decades while other nations slaughtered their own by the millions.

The UN is beyond redemption, therefore all free nations should withdraw and leave the UN to be a debating society for dictatorships that it already is -- but without the financial and moral support of those whom they are avowed to destroy.

[Col.O'neill]

Fantastic post! On another not perhaps the UN should change their name from United Nations to Useless Negotiations? Just an idea.

[Stormz_STA]

• Poland – 1.6 million


And where did that figure come from?

[walford]

And where did that figure come from?
Death by Government (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1560009276/thebigpicture-20?dev-t=mason-wrapper%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2) - R. J. Rummel

He is likely referring to Poland during its membership in the Warsaw Pact. As bloody as the 20th century was, more people were killed by their own governments than in all of the wars combined. While this was going on, the UN had little to say about it, preferring to focus its outrage upon Israel.

[Evolv5]

Finally an article on what I've been trying to say myself!
He manages to put it in better words though.

However, I do believe that there is a chance for the UN to be saved.

[LineDoggie]

UN= Fail.........................................

[Switek]

Death by Government (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1560009276/thebigpicture-20?dev-t=mason-wrapper%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2) - R. J. Rummel

He is likely referring to Poland during its membership in the Warsaw Pact. As bloody as the 20th century was, more people were killed by their own governments than in all of the wars combined. While this was going on, the UN had little to say about it, preferring to focus its outrage upon Israel.

It's impossible... There wasn't such extermination in Poland after WW2 including civil war 1944-49, and killing of Germans and Ukrainians

[Connaught Ranger]

The U.N. has always been handicapped by its own members, especially those countries who try to bend its will to follow their own particular Political Agenda, however it must also be remembered that the many Food Aid and Humanitarian Relief Missions have been responsible for saving many thousands of lives as well around the world.

With regards:-

The United Nations has abjectly failed in its mission to keep the peace and foster prosperity. Some wars have been prevented, but people still have died in the limited conflicts that have erupted since the Second World War. A far greater number of people have been killed by their own governments during that same period:

• The People’s Republic of China – 35 million
Closed to the outside world, did you expect the U.N. to invade them. :roll:

• Post WWII Soviet Union over 20 million [more than 40 million pre-war]
Closed to U.N. Intervention, and as a nuclear power nobody was going to mess with them.

• Khmer Rouge – 2.5 million
I believe more than that were purged killed but as the UN has no standing Military what did you expect them to do.


• Viet Nam – 1.7 million
Was that before, during, or after the Vietnam War.:roll:

• Poland – 1.6 million
Very Doubtful Figure and as it was a Soviet Satellite again did you expect the U.N. to go charging in to help them. :roll:

• North Korea – 1.7 million
If anything I would expect more than this figure, again this country is a virtually closed state with no access by outsiders and still technically at war.
• Pakistan – 1.5 million

Connaught Ranger. ex U.N. Peacekeeping Veteran and Proud of it.woot

[Switek]

• Poland – 1.6 million
Very Doubtful Figure and as it was a Soviet Satellite again did you expect the U.N. to go charging in to help them. :roll:

160.000 could be acceptable. 95% could happen between 1944-56.

[walford]

...did you expect the U.N. to go charging in to help them. :roll:The fact of the matter is, from the end of WWII and the present, the UN has lodged more resolutions against Israel than all of the other nations of the world combined. The data cites what ELSE was going on by comparison.

What would I expect? I would expect a body that purports to exist to foster peace, freedom and prosperity to at least criticize wholesale slaughter when it actually occurs rather than focusing upon everyone's favorite whipping boy when it defends itself against people who are by word and deed, avowed to destroy them to the last man, woman and child.

[LineDoggie]

There's 1.8 Billion(+/-) Muslims

There's far less Jews

Many people are hostile to Jews around the world

No Brainer, that the UN caves in.

[Switek]

The fact of the matter is, from the end of WWII and the present, the UN has lodged more resolutions against Israel than all of the other nations of the world combined. The data cites what ELSE was going on by comparison.

True. But in some extent Israelis made some mistakes in 1948 and later. So I'm not surprised... One is that you really never have cared about your PR. esp. in "old" Europe. You should learn this from Arab, Muslim immigrants...


What would I expect? I would expect a body that purports to exist to foster peace, freedom and prosperity to at least criticize wholesale slaughter when it actually occurs rather than focusing upon everyone's favorite whipping boy when it defends itself against people who are by word and deed, avowed to destroy them to the last man, woman and child.

You never gain this by posting unreal figures.

[Crazed Aussie]

Brilliantly & succinctly put, which is why I always ignore the U.N, and to a lesser extent the E.U. The Coalition of the Willing looks to me as the only reasonable way forward, and support for Israel should never waiver.

[Connaught Ranger]

The fact of the matter is, from the end of WWII and the present, the UN has lodged more resolutions against Israel than all of the other nations of the world combined. The data cites what ELSE was going on by comparison.

What would I expect? I would expect a body that purports to exist to foster peace, freedom and prosperity to at least criticize wholesale slaughter when it actually occurs rather than focusing upon everyone's favorite whipping boy when it defends itself against people who are by word and deed, avowed to destroy them to the last man, woman and child.

You appear to view the United Nations as a Sovereign entity, when all its success and failures are down to its members who continue to push their countries Foreign Affairs / Political Agendas and policy's continually, regardless of whats good for the world.

Connaught Ranger.

[spider1]

I asked myself many times:
WHY THE **** WE ARE PART OF THE UN?!!?!?!?!?!?

[Eye]

• Poland – 1.6 million



As usual, evil Poland - the only cause of WWII and holocaust.
Just stop to talk rubbish, please. :bash:

[Switek]

I asked myself many times:
WHY THE **** WE ARE PART OF THE UN?!!?!?!?!?!?

Good question. Let me fix it a little..


WHY THE **** WE ARE PART OF THE MANKIND?!

[nagant_m44]

Good question. Let me fix it a little..

take out the "the" before mankind so what you are trying to say makes more sense.

[Switek]

As usual, evil Poland - the only cause of WWII and holocaust.
Just stop to talk rubbish, please. :bash:
[/indent]


Stop childish comments please..

[spider1]

Good question. Let me fix it a little..
The thing is that you have many muslem+arab countries and they use the UN to gore israel and to make anti israeli resolutions and if will be honest if i was our ambassdor to the UN i would want to leave it

[Switek]

The thing is that you have many muslem+arab countries and they use the UN to gore israel and to make anti israeli resolutions and if will be honest if i was our ambassdor to the UN i would want to leave it


The real thing that your leaders always undermine a PR role of UN, whatever bunch it is.

Forget about a "chosen nation" myth and start behave ad responsible international community member (with all goods and bads)

[frenchy]

How many arab countries in the UN ?

How many countries back them for oil or are afraid of muslims riots in their own countries ?

[Umbro2914]

You appear to view the United Nations as a Sovereign entity, when all its success and failures are down to its members who continue to push their countries Foreign Affairs / Political Agendas and policy's continually, regardless of whats good for the world.

Connaught Ranger.


good point. not many remember that when they go on wild UN rants...
it was a foolish Wilsonian idea to think that all nations would be unselfish and care about others.. seriously lets get real.

[Pandemonium]

There is always a lot of criticism about the UN, but you should ask yourself this, can you think of an organisation who would do it better?

At least the UN simplifies the contact between nations, they create a forum for countries to deliberate.

And the sub-orginisations of the UN, like UNICEF, UNESCO,... are succesfull, think about that, without the UN there is no possibility to organise such a large-scale humanitarian aid, or think about the schools they build


And there where some small successes,...(pause)... NOT

[spider1]

The real thing that your leaders always undermine a PR role of UN, whatever bunch it is.

Forget about a "chosen nation" myth and start behave ad responsible international community member (with all goods and bads)

They use it as a tool ageinst israel i also dont really like the eu that is also biasd and favours the arabs but the EU doesnt have influence on israel only the US has and also not on everything

[budgie]

The fact of the matter is, from the end of WWII and the present, the UN has lodged more resolutions against Israel than all of the other nations of the world combined. The data cites what ELSE was going on by comparison.

That's because Israel keeps ignoring them. It hasn't returned the Golan heights to Syria, dismantled the 'settlements' in the west Bank, restored Arab East Jerusalem and only recently withdrew from Gaza, only to blockade the place and launch punitive raids against Hamas from time to time. Gaza's besieged state is hardly different from occupation.

The right-wingers were all up in arms about Saddam's mere twelve years of thumbing his nose at the UN but Israel has gotten away with displacing an entire people for much, much longer.

Now I believe Israel has the right to exist as a state, but not to have it all their own way. And when you look at the UN resolutions against Israel it doesn't come entirely from dictatorships and Muslims. There are plenty of democracies and Christians on board as well.

It's easy to dismiss the UN as a bunch of dictators when it allows the Christian Zionists, Israel Lobby and militant right to tell themselves they're cleaning up the mess the rest of the world won't touch, but it has never been that simple.

And for those chest beaters who think that violence is the only solution - who think the UN is a useless windbag and negotiations are futile - I cordially invite you to sit back and watch the status quo continue. It will not end. For all the tough talk, this crap will just go on and on and on without a serious effort from both sides to compromise. It might sound like a slogan but guns alone won't solve the Palestinian issue - if that were the case it would have been settled decades ago.

[alexz]

And as hamas hijacks UN tracks with supplies for Palestnians and executes rivals .......ssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh silence at the UN.

The Palestinian Authority's Minister of Social Welfare Affairs, Mahmoud Habbash, accused Hamas on Wednesday of confiscating 63 trucks loaded with humanitarian aid while they were on their way to the UN Relief and Works Agency in Gaza.


Palestinian supporters of Hamas attend a rally in Gaza City, Sunday.
Photo: AP

Slideshow: Pictures of the week He also confirmed that Hamas had been torturing and executing Fatah members in the Gaza Strip during and after Operation Cast Lead. Nineteen Palestinians were murdered in cold blood by Hamas, Habbash said, while more than 60 others were shot in the legs.

Ihab Ghissin, spokesman for the Hamas-run Interior Ministry in Gaza, confirmed that his men had arrested scores of "collaborators" with Israel during and after the war. However, he refused to say whether the detainees were members of Fatah. He also denied that the detainees were being tortured.

However, Musa Abu Marzouk, a top Hamas official in Syria, confirmed that his movement had executed "collaborators" during the war. He claimed that Fatah members had taken to the streets to blow kisses at IAF planes and handed out candies as they attacked Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip.

The latest charges against Hamas came as PA officials in Ramallah said they were coordinating the transfer of aid with Israel.

"We are working very closely with the Israeli authorities to ensure that humanitarian aid is delivered to the Gaza Strip through the border crossings," an official at the PA Economy Ministry said.

He added that since the cease-fire went into effect, the Israel had given permission to more than 150 trucks loaded with food and medicine to enter the Strip through Nahal Oz in the north and Kerem Shalom in the south.

Habbash accused Hamas of intimidating journalists and aid workers during the military operation and preventing them from speaking out without permission from the movement.

Hamas militiamen have been intercepting aid convoys and confiscating food and medical supplies, he claimed. Some Hamas officials had laid their hands on the aid and were selling them.

The minister said his office had received hundreds of complaints from Palestinians in the Gaza Strip about the confiscation of humanitarian aid.

"The people in the Gaza Strip have fallen between the Israeli hammer, which does not distinguish between human beings, animals and trees, and the Hamas anvil, which is depriving thousands of families of the international aid," he said.

The PA leadership had established an "emergency room" in Ramallah to follow up on the humanitarian situation in the Strip from the beginning of the military operation, Habbash said. The unit's task was - and remains - to coordinate relief and aid supplies to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, he said.

The PA was supervising the transfer of the aid, with some of the supplies coming into the West Bank through the border crossings with Jordan, he said.

The PA had also arranged for the transfer of 430 wounded Gazans to Egyptian and other hospitals in the Arab world, Habbash said, adding that more than 4,000 houses had been destroyed, while another 40,000 were damaged and rendered dangerous to live in.

Hamas, for its part, accused the government of PA Prime Minister Salaam Fayad of stealing food and medicine supplies donated to the people of the Gaza Strip. A spokesman for the Hamas government claimed that some of Fayad's top aides had sold the supplies to merchants in the Strip who, in turn, were selling them in the local market.

Yusef al-Mansi, the housing minister in the Hamas government, announced on Wednesday that Hamas has no objections to coordinating the delivery of relief and aid with any party, including the PA government in Ramallah.

But, he stressed, Hamas insists that all the aid be delivered under its supervision and in coordination with the Hamas government. Some 5,000 Palestinian families have become homeless after their houses were completely destroyed during the war, he said.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232292930390&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Snoshi]

That's because Israel keeps ignoring them.
How can you not ignore the useless UN resulution?


It hasn't returned the Golan heights to Syria,
Umm.. Israel have said that its willing to negotiate with Syria.. But territory will only be given back in a peace deal.. Whats so wrong with that..


dismantled the 'settlements' in the west Bank,
Again.. Why should it? Just because some countries do not like it?


restored Arab East Jerusalem
To who? Jordan?


and only recently withdrew from Gaza, only to blockade the place and launch punitive raids against Hamas from time to time. Gaza's besieged state is hardly different from occupation.
People voted for Hamas and got what they wanted.. Its not like Israel put them there in charge..


The right-wingers were all up in arms about Saddam's mere twelve years of thumbing his nose at the UN but Israel has gotten away with displacing an entire people for much, much longer.

I dint know that there were "Palestinian" people.. I though they were called Arabs...
Now displacing them is not a right word since most of them fled themselves.


Now I believe Israel has the right to exist as a state, but not to have it all their own way. And when you look at the UN resolutions against Israel it doesn't come entirely from dictatorships and Muslims. There are plenty of democracies and Christians on board as well.
It does not? So what other "democracies" are you talking about? Cuba? Venezuela?

[Switek]

They use it as a tool ageinst israel i also dont really like the eu that is also biasd and favours the arabs but the EU doesnt have influence on israel only the US has and also not on everything

They use it also against USA... EU with their large Muslim minorities represents rather their point of view (with some exceptions) Besides EU has never had balls and it's rather a jerk, and its voice is very often ignored.

[jemesouviens]

It is not a question of how much people Israel had killed in 60 years, its the question of "Why?".

[budgie]

How can you not ignore the useless UN resulution?

Umm.. Israel have said that its willing to negotiate with Syria.. But territory will only be given back in a peace deal.. Whats so wrong with that..

Again.. Why should it? Just because some countries do not like it?

You don't have to like it but those are among the reasons for UN resolutions against Israel.


I dint know that there were "Palestinian" people.. I though they were called Arabs...
Now displacing them is not a right word since most of them fled themselves.

So go educate yourself, that's not my job. I personally have met, socialised and worked with plenty of Palestinians so don't tell me they don't exist.


It does not? So what other "democracies" are you talking about? Cuba? Venezuela?

Don't pretend to be ignorant. Google a list of UN member states. IIRC there's over a hundred and eighty of them.

[LineDoggie]

It is not a question of how much people Israel had killed in 60 years, its the question of "Why?".

Ummm, you do realize that Israel is the one being constantly attacked. If it inflicts higher Casualties among it's attackers than Israel suffers that's called war. Most nations wouldnt keep attacking and being repelled over and over.


If you kick a growling dog enough times it learns to stay away.

[jemesouviens]

Ummm, you do realize that Israel is the one being constantly attacked. If it inflicts higher Casualties among it's attackers than Israel suffers that's called war. Most nations wouldnt keep attacking and being repelled over and over.


If you kick a growling dog enough times it learns to stay away.

Israel are protected by American Israel Public Affairs Committee and Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs. Don't said they're constantly attacked when Israel had occupied Palestine since long time now.Israel is a apartheid Nation, don't forget that, my question it's simple...why?.

[jemesouviens]

What ever i just found that stupid they can't made peace when it's truly possible since 1948 but only because its a question of religion.

[LineDoggie]

Israel are protected by American Israel Public Affairs Committee and Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs. Don't said they're constantly attacked when Israel had occupied Palestine since long time now.Israel is a apartheid Nation, don't forget that, my question it's simple...why?.


They were Attacked is the answer. Most people fight back when attacked

Your mileage may differ....

[jemesouviens]

They were Attacked is the answer. Most people fight back when attacked

Your mileage may differ....

Well maybe ,thank you for your answer

[Holycrusader]

It's impossible... There wasn't such extermination in Poland after WW2 including civil war 1944-49, and killing of Germans and Ukrainians

*2

Stupid article... Victims of pur previous regime goes in tousands at most. And only if count things mentioned by Switek...

[tea drinker]

UN does what it can - it's only as strong as it hosts countries make it - or can make it.



In the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Zaire), 45,000 people are dying every month. Nearly 5.5 million have died since 1998 in a conflict that grew out of the violence in Rwanda and spread. Half of those deaths were of children under the age of five, according to the International Rescue Committee. The violence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo has caused more human devastation than any conflict since World War II.


This country is huge - Afghanistan is 251,772 sq mi and 30 million people; but DRC is 905,351 sq mi and 60 million. There is no way the UN could police it without huge loss of life. Problems in Africa aren't irrelevant - they are just huge.

UN and Israel don't always get along, Israel has killed numerous UN soldiers.

[helomech]

My perception is that Isreal may not giveth a sh1t what the UN says or thinks;they're doing what is in their power to survive

[Moledet]

My perception is that Isreal may not giveth a sh1t what the UN says or thinks;they're doing what is in their power to survive
Yep, a known expression here was made by our first Prime minister Ben Gurion, "um (UN in Hebrew) shmum". They can b*tch all they want, even our aid and relief missions we don't do through the UN but on our own.

[Connaught Ranger]

UN does what it can - it's only as strong as it hosts countries make it - or can make it.



This country is huge - Afghanistan is 251,772 sq mi and 30 million people; but DRC is 905,351 sq mi and 60 million. There is no way the UN could police it without huge loss of life. Problems in Africa aren't irrelevant - they are just huge.

UN and Israel don't always get along, Israel has killed numerous UN soldiers.

While I agree with your Congo section in your post, (and don't get me wrong here being a former member of the Irish U.N.I.F.I.L. contingent,)

I feel the use of the word "numerous" cast a slant on your statement, the figure is surely known for sure, on how many UN soldiers died due to Israeli action?

As far as I can remember with regards the Irish casualties in U.N.I.F.I.L., :-

14 Irish casualties were Killed in Action or murdered in cold blood.

The only Irish I.D.F. caused casualty was Corporal Dermot McLoughlin (Sligo) killed by a tank round impacting on the Irish position in At-Tiri 10th January 1987.

Six Irish soldiers were killed by Haddad's militiamen. (S.L.A.)*

*Private Stephan Griffin 16th April 1980.

*including the cold bloodied execution, while prisoners of Privates Derek Smallhorne and Private Thomas Barret., on 18th April 1980.

*Private William O'Brien 6 December 1986.

*Private Michael McCarty. November 1992.

Five were killed by Hezbollah* and two by Palestinians (P.L.O.)**

**Private Hugh Docherty & Private Kevin Joyce. 27th April 1981.

**Corporal Gregory Morrow, killed on the 27th October 1982.

Killed by landmines / I.E.D.*,

**Lieutenant Aengus Murhphy, killed on the track to Hill 880 from At-Tiri by an I.E.D.on the 21 August 1986

**Corporal Fintan Henaghan, Private Manix Armstrong, Private Thomas Walsh killed when their truck drove over a tank-mine or I.E.D. on March 21st 1989.

**the fifth, Corporal Peter Ward, by a Hezbollah militiaman at Al-Journ on the 29th September 1992.

May they and all their comrades in the U.N. Service who died in the cause of Peace + Rest In Peace +

Connaught Ranger.

[Evolv5]

About the EU being "weak" on the "Arab" nations, well, they do provide most of their oil, so, going too hardcore could backfire.

And about blaming Israel for everything in the Gaza strip, well Egypt is right next door. They don't seem too interested about the Gaza strip either, it's just another problem.

I'm sure if the Palestinians just thew all their weapons away and concentrated on building up their infrastructure, possibly attracting tourists, selling fruit, fishing, I don't know exactly what possibilities they have but I'm sure there's something. Well I'm sure Israel would let them be.

Even if you consider Israel blood thirsty, I'm sure they would stop firing their 20 000$ Missiles on Gaza if they didn't shoot back.

Sure, you can say that Palestinians possibly deserve more land than they have at the moment (Israel occupying it or whatever), well, how 'bout they just settle down and work with what they got.
It's a compromise, but on the positive side, the killing would stop.

Maybe later on Israel will give them more land, it's doubtful, but who knows.

Anyways, my point is, they're the underdog, you're going to have to compromise. Sure, they can keep on doing what they do and have fortnight long skirmishes every two years, but it won't do anything.


Just compromise.

[Moledet]

Evolv5, if they build a race track or motosport park near the border with Israel they will make a lot of money (as long as it's safe to go there). There's no proper race track in Jordan, Egypt or Israel (in Israel racing is forbidden).

[Evolv5]

Evolv5, if they build a race track or motosport park near the border with Israel they will make a lot of money (as long as it's safe to go there). There's no proper race track in Jordan, Egypt or Israel (in Israel racing is forbidden).

Voila, see there you have it.

It's the fvckin' Mediterranean, Euro-tourist heaven!

[Supplanter]

...(in Israel racing is forbidden).
Why is that?

[Moledet]

Why is that?
Socialist laws that has to do with insurance. You can't insure a vehicle for racing and you can't drive a vehicle that isn't road legal on any road (even if the road leads nowhere).
They passed a motorsport law in 2005 in order to make it possible to race but the law requires creating regulations and until each regulation goes through the right committee and is approved it takes a lot of time (so far 3 years and they are about half way).

[RoyB]

What ever i just found that stupid they can't made peace when it's truly possible since 1948 but only because its a question of religion.
The UN gave us the ****ty parts of the land back then, and gave the rest to the Arabs, they refused.

[RoyB]

It is not a question of how much people Israel had killed in 60 years, its the question of "Why?".
How many people did the Arabs killed in the past 60 years? and why?
Why blow up a bus full with innocent people? why blow up a restaurant full with innocent people? why killing a baby with a weapon's butt?
The fact is, that we actually fight, they are just killing innocent people without the ability to fight them back.

[Evolv5]

How many people did the Arabs killed in the past 60 years? and why?
Why blow up a bus full with innocent people? why blow up a restaurant full with innocent people? why killing a baby with a weapon's butt?
The fact is, that we actually fight, they are just killing innocent people without the ability to fight them back.

True, the world seems to have forgotten the suicide bombings that seemed almost daily a few years ago.
When did they "stop"? When the wall was built?

[Mikhael]

UN = League of Nations its so simple yet so obvious...


Ppl want organizations who prevent wars AFTER a BIG GLOBAL WAR and they really want to do something like did UN in korea.

If today was another conflict on korean peninsula mighty UN would only condemn attacking side and do nothing.

Why we need to pump money into organization that do nothing only politicians can "chat" in NY city in a crappy building thats all UN is good for...

[gilgoul]

That's because Israel keeps ignoring them. It hasn't returned the Golan heights to Syria, dismantled the 'settlements' in the west Bank, restored Arab East Jerusalem and only recently withdrew from Gaza, only to blockade the place and launch punitive raids against Hamas from time to time. Gaza's besieged state is hardly different from occupation.

The right-wingers were all up in arms about Saddam's mere twelve years of thumbing his nose at the UN but Israel has gotten away with displacing an entire people for much, much longer.

Now I believe Israel has the right to exist as a state, but not to have it all their own way. And when you look at the UN resolutions against Israel it doesn't come entirely from dictatorships and Muslims. There are plenty of democracies and Christians on board as well.

It's easy to dismiss the UN as a bunch of dictators when it allows the Christian Zionists, Israel Lobby and militant right to tell themselves they're cleaning up the mess the rest of the world won't touch, but it has never been that simple.

And for those chest beaters who think that violence is the only solution - who think the UN is a useless windbag and negotiations are futile - I cordially invite you to sit back and watch the status quo continue. It will not end. For all the tough talk, this crap will just go on and on and on without a serious effort from both sides to compromise. It might sound like a slogan but guns alone won't solve the Palestinian issue - if that were the case it would have been settled decades ago.

With all due respect for the soldiers who served under the UN flag, and for those who believed in their mission, I humbly demand to see what ever good the UN did since the Korea war.
As of our local conflict, the UN has proven itself a quite irrelevant partner since it withdrew it's interposition forces in the Sinai in 1967 at Nasser's demand, without even a protest.
Beside, all of the UN organizations in the area are practicing employement discrimination, being staffed almost essentially by foreigners (small part) and local arabs (most part), who more than once have been caught red handed in illegal or down right terrorist activities, not mentionning the systematic bias and downright slander expressed in reports and "analysis" that are latter sealed approved by the organization.

I won't even mention the UNWRA and UNTSO organizations, one being a clear instrumental tool of the Arab League, the other a cool position for ex military personel in sear ch of a well paid pension.

[Connaught Ranger]

With all due respect for the soldiers who served under the UN flag, and for those who believed in their mission, I humbly demand to see what ever good the UN did since the Korea war.
As of our local conflict, the UN has proven itself a quite irrelevant partner since it withdrew it's interposition forces in the Sinai in 1967 at Nasser's demand, without even a protest.
Beside, all of the UN organizations in the area are practicing employement discrimination, being staffed almost essentially by foreigners (small part) and local arabs (most part), who more than once have been caught red handed in illegal or down right terrorist activities, not mentionning the systematic bias and downright slander expressed in reports and "analysis" that are latter sealed approved by the organization.

I won't even mention the UNWRA and UNTSO organizations, one being a clear instrumental tool of the Arab League, the other a cool position for ex military personel in sear ch of a well paid pension.

I will mention the fact, that you seem unable to differentiate the difference between U.N. Civil Humanitarian Missions and their Military Peace-keeping / Peace-enforcing Missions, also the fact that the U.N. is made up of representatives of ruling political parties of countries which in some cases make very little distinction between their politics and religion.

Again I will state there have been cases where U.N. (military) personnel have been caught engaged in illegal acts, but, that's out of choice of their personnel convictions and nothing to do with following U.N. orders, or even condoned by the U.N. situations like that will always be a danger when you do not know peoples true attitudes towards the countries involved in conflict.

The U.N. Mission U.N.E.F. (1) had no choice but to leave their positions when ordered to do so by the Egyptians, mainly because they have no right to occupy a sovereign states territory without their permission, but they also suffered casualties when the Egyptians swept through the postion in their attackon Israel.

U.N.T.S.O. actually uses a lot of serving military officers from many countries.:roll: and you do not get a pension for U.N. service:roll:, its also an unarmed observer mission in place since 1947 which started off with a wide ranging mandate deployed to Israel's disputed frontiers. On the Egyptian front, along the Gaza strip area, the U.N.T.S.O. mission coexisted with the armed U.N. force U.N.E.F. (1) (However it was not U.N.E.F.'s job to take on the Egyptian or Israeli Defence Forces in all out combat, they were niether equiped or set up to do so.

Connaught Ranger.

[Kaplanr]

From a purely historical perspective UNTSO is an anachronism. It's there to oversee a truce whose conditions no longer apply, at least insofar as Egypt and Jordan are concerned.

[Connaught Ranger]

UN = League of Nations its so simple yet so obvious...

For your information: The League of Nations was an international organisation founded as a result of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919-1920. The diplomatic philosophy behind the League represented a fundamental shift in thought from the preceding hundred years.

However the League lacked its own armed force and so depended on the Great Powers to enforce its resolutions and they were often reluctant to do so. The league did not, in the long term succeed. The outbreak of World War II was the immediate cause of the League's demise, but there was also a variety of other, more fundamental flaws.

Economic sanctions, which were the most severe measure the League could implement short of military action, were difficult to enforce and had no great impact on the target country, because they could simply trade with those outside the League.

Ultimately, Britain and France both abandoned the concept of collective security in favour of appeasement in the face of growing German militarism.
The final meeting of the League of Nations was held in Geneva on April 18th 1946. Delegates from 34 nations attended, and a motion was made to close the session, with the resolution that "The League of Nations shall cease to exist except for the purpose of the liquidation of its assets."

The vote was 33-0 in favour, with Egypt abstaining. At 5:43pm Secretary Carl J. Hambro of Norway stated. "I declare the twenty-first and last session of the General Assembly of the League of Mations closed."


Ppl want organizations who prevent wars AFTER a BIG GLOBAL WAR and they really want to do something like did UN in korea.

Outside of the U.N., there is no other organisation able to do this work:roll:
Korea was a full blown war between North and South Korea, the Palastinian v. Israel conflict cannot be compared to Korea.:roll:

If today was another conflict on korean peninsula mighty UN would only condemn attacking side and do nothing.

The last "conflict" on the Korean Peninsular has not ended, both sides remain at war and in a state of rediness to resume hostilities.:roll:

Why we need to pump money into organization that do nothing only politicians can "chat" in NY city in a crappy building thats all UN is good for...

Ask your own politicians they are part of the problem as you percieve it:roll:

Connaught Ranger:)

[Mikhael]

Connaught Ranger:)

Dont really want to answer all but UN is the successor to the LoN about N.Korea and S.Korea still being at war is just u want to have something to "pick on" its like russians still being at war with japan (in korean situation much worse but still)
And about u talking about politicians CONGRATS!!! u just discovered america...

My post was about that UN as an arganization is failing when UN was formed many ppl had WW2 in their minds and didnt want WW3 and when Korean war broke out there was willingness to form UN ARMY to go to korea now there is none becouse countries that have power forgot "what is war on their own soil" or just dont want to spend money or just "we dont want our soldiers to die in some god forsaken place" same as LoN was formed after WW1.


UN peace keeping is a FARCE and it showed this many times like in ex- yugoslavia ...

[kamaz]

Israel are protected by American Israel Public Affairs Committee and Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs. Don't said they're constantly attacked when Israel had occupied Palestine since long time now.Israel is a apartheid Nation, don't forget that, my question it's simple...why?.




ahahahaha.. this jemesovens guy is funny.

[Kaapeli]

UN peace keeping is a FARCE and it showed this many times like in ex- yugoslavia ...

It's been succesful in most other missions.

And when do people understand that peacekeeping is just maybe 1% of what the UN does?
Ever heard of organizations like UNDP, WHO, World Bank, UNICEF, UNESCO, IAEA, ICAO, IFAD, ILO, IMO, UNIDO, IMF etc.?
Look them up and see what they do and have done. Educate yourself and then come and tell us if the UN is "failing". Because I don't think you really know anything about the UN besides peacekeeping.

[Connaught Ranger]

Dont really want to answer all but UN is the successor to the LoN about N.Korea and S.Korea still being at war is just u want to have something to "pick on" its like russians still being at war with japan (in korean situation much worse but still)
And about u talking about politicians CONGRATS!!! u just discovered america...

My post was about that UN as an arganization is failing when UN was formed many ppl had WW2 in their minds and didnt want WW3 and when Korean war broke out there was willingness to form UN ARMY to go to korea now there is none becouse countries that have power forgot "what is war on their own soil" or just dont want to spend money or just "we dont want our soldiers to die in some god forsaken place" same as LoN was formed after WW1.


UN peace keeping is a FARCE and it showed this many times like in ex- yugoslavia ...

Of course you don't want to answer all, when the flaws in your narrow-minded opinion are pointed out, :roll:

Korea was a war basically against Communism gaining ground, and it was pushed by the Americans, who were in very front of Anti-Communism campaign, whereas 90% of the U.N. Missions were in conflicts that were far smaller than Korea.

You too make a basic mistake with regards the U.N. and attempt to judge all the U.N. Peace-keeping and U.N.Observer Missions as alike when each Mission is inherently different from the next, different mandate, different size etc..etc..

Far from being a FARCE, only for U.N. Peacekeeping Missions the world would be in a worse state than it is.

and the Yugoslavia U.N. mission was not exactly the organisation's finest hour, but as pointed out by Mr. Anthony Foley* in his paper:-

"Balkan Dilemma" . . . .


" I believe that it is true to say that the involvement of any foreign power in the region of the former Yugoslavia has only served to make matters worse, regardless of the reasons for that involvement. Down through the centuries, no foreign power ever left this region in a better or more stable state than that in which they found it.

In short, the region has always suffered as a result of foreign interference. This failure to even try to gain an understanding of the complexities adherent to the region has carried on right down to the twenty first century and the result has contributed greatly to the tragedy. This lack of understanding encompasses an apparent refusal to comprehend the underlying tensions brought about by history, ethnic and religious differences, the legacy of communism and the legacy of the entire region having been a pawn in colonial feuds.

Since the early 1990's Yugoslavia made the transition from being a federal state to becoming a region divided into six separate republics and indeed as I write, it would appear that a number of States now recognize a seventh republic, following on the unilateral deceleration of independence by the Kosovo. . . . ."

*Mr Anthony Foley is a barrister and served in Bosnia and Herzegovina as Legal Adviser and Head of Legal affairs to the European Union in Mostar and subsequently served as Human Rights Officer and Director of Return and Reconstruction with the U.N.O. of the High Representative in Southern Bosnia and Herzegovina. He served with the Irish Department of Defence for twenty seven years. and is the author of a number of books.

Connaught Ranger.:)

[Mikhael]

Of course you don't want to answer all, when the flaws in your narrow-minded opinion are pointed out,
Connaught Ranger.:)

That wa really mature of u congrats..
From ur avatar i see that u were on a Un mission/s so ur biased and want to see only what u want to see.

And writing about others "names" just proves that my HIGH AND MIGHTY ranger... from me EOT

[Connaught Ranger]

That wa really mature of u congrats..
From ur avatar i see that u were on a Un mission/s so ur biased and want to see only what u want to see.

And writing about others "names" just proves that my HIGH AND MIGHTY ranger... from me EOT

FAIL again Mike,

No! I am not biased, I like to see both sides of the story presented, and at least I post the source for my information whereas you on the other hand cast aspersions like a typical troll.woot

Connaught Ranger.

[jemesouviens]

ahahahaha.. this jemesovens guy is funny.

Why i'm a "funny guy"?...because i said Israel are protected by JINSA and AIPAC...i don't see anything funny when it's true.

[jemesouviens]

The UN gave us the ****ty parts of the land back then, and gave the rest to the Arabs, they refused.

Maybe you have right

[Octavariable]

Well maybe you have right



he is right
a more realistic 1947 map

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9382/israel04ui6pk4.jpg

[Moledet]

Maybe you have right
Not maybe, he's right.
We got the coast and the desert, they got the north (Galil) and Judah and Samaria meaning the green areas.
Nevermind that today the coast is the richest area due to hi-tech but it was not like that when the UN voted and yet we agreed to get the worse part of land because there were Jewish refugees in Europe and in Arab countries and we had to take care of them no matter what.

[dindin]

There's 1.8 Billion(+/-) Muslims

There's far less Jews

Many people are hostile to Jews around the world

No Brainer, that the UN caves in.


whe never ask ourself why people hostile 2 jews

[budgie]

You seem to think you have an answer. Shoot.

[Kaplanr]

whe never ask ourself why people hostile 2 jews

Go ahead, enlighten me. Especially about the ones who've never met me.

[Eye]

he is right
a more realistic 1947 map

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9382/israel04ui6pk4.jpg
Weren't it mostly Arab's private property? If yes - it would have been curious if they had agreed for that plan.

[Octavariable]

Weren't it mostly Arab's private property? If yes - it would have been curious if they had agreed for that plan.

if you're talking about the yellow areas, then no, they were the main jewish settlement areas in the time. and we are talking about 1947, meaning in some cases more than 50 years of new jewish settlement.
the ground itself was bought from arab or ottoman landlords in prior decades. and take in mind that some of the areas were unpopulated until that time (mainly the northern valeys, the coastal plains and northern parts of the negev desert) or had nomadic beduins in the area.