View Full Version : Obama orders the closure of Guantanamo Bay
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/11/12/ST2008111200035.html
(If repost admin please delete)
Geezah
01-22-2009, 09:36 AM
I heard about this last night, his first exec order.
Bloody wonderful.........
Zoomie
01-22-2009, 11:48 AM
Gotta love how ignorance is shown through the article's title, as he doesn't want to close Guantanamo Base, but rather Camp Delta.
Hollis
01-22-2009, 11:50 AM
Gotta love how ignorance is shown through the article's title, as he doesn't want to close Guantanamo Base, but rather Camp Delta.
And in a year, lots can happen by then. Sooner or later something has to done with the tangos who are vacationing there. Maybe Castro would accept them.
Sheikh Al Stranghi
01-22-2009, 12:00 PM
Oh great, now the suspects can be moved to different holding facilities without us ever knowing where they are! I don't think this is much more than a political move to keep the guantanamo-haters satisfied. I don't think the suspects will be released anytime soon? They must be there for a reason, the camp isn't that big...
Martial
01-22-2009, 12:23 PM
If it's gonna take 12 months to close a prison is he really going to end the Iraq War in 16 months?
Yeti2424
01-22-2009, 01:54 PM
My big thing is why does he need a pannel to decide what to do with the prisoners. Shouldnt that have been decided before he issued the order to close it?
larrystarling
01-22-2009, 01:59 PM
Great news for the Terrorist Pricks that are currently there!:bash:
Lt-Col A. Tack
01-22-2009, 02:02 PM
And in a year, lots can happen by then. Sooner or later something has to done with the tangos who are vacationing there. Maybe Castro would accept them.
Didn't that jerk Castro release a lot of criminals at one time that ended up in Florida?
Hellfish
01-22-2009, 02:46 PM
Didn't that jerk Castro release a lot of criminals at one time that ended up in Florida?
Mariel Boat Lift.
Lt-Col A. Tack
01-22-2009, 03:04 PM
Mariel Boat Lift.
That's it! Thank you, sir!
Atlantic Friend
01-22-2009, 03:09 PM
My big thing is why does he need a pannel to decide what to do with the prisoners. Shouldnt that have been decided before he issued the order to close it?
Shouldn't that have been discussed when Gitmo was set up ? Was Gitmo the place where the detainees would have served their sentences after their trial as well ?
Hollis
01-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Shouldn't that have been discussed when Gitmo was set up ? Was Gitmo the place where the detainees would have served their sentences after their trial as well ?
I think it came as a surprise. In that things where happening or moving very quickly and something had to be done. It isn't like there is some crystal ball, where the Gov't knew 9/11 was going to happen and then the events following it.
The advantage of Gitmo is that it is in Cuba. So we piss off Castro, who cared. If the tangos escaped, the Cubans gave the fun of dealing with them. I don't think the US is going to abandon the complete base. So if it is brig, against probably better there than in the US. Having a penal colony on a island is not a new conception, especially if you don't want anyone contacting the prisoners or having them escape.
From what I read, it was going into the unknown. Even with legal/constitutional implications not just housing terrorists.
Didn't that jerk Castro release a lot of criminals at one time that ended up in Florida?
Fidel actually made a statement saying he supports Obama now. :roll:
thats just what we need communists that are happy with us.
Atlantic Friend
01-22-2009, 03:34 PM
I think it came as a surprise. In that things where happening or moving very quickly and something had to be done. It isn't like there is some crystal ball, where the Gov't knew 9/11 was going to happen and then the events following it.
Of course not, but well...Guantanamo's special prison has been around for some years, and the previous Administration had the trials set in motion, so I thought there might have been some ideas about what would happen when the first life sentence would be ****ounced.
Why CLOSE Guantanamo, anyway ? Why not simply REFORM it ? Is it because it's become such a symbol of the Bush era ?
Andrew Chalmers
01-22-2009, 03:36 PM
Guantanamo was not really selected for its physical location. There was never any doubt that detainees would unable to escape. They were always intended to be kept in highly secured locations.
Having spoken to military lawyers (including members involved in the CSRT & the MC) - Gitmo was selected for its legal ambiguity. Unlike military bases abroad - we have no status of forces agreements with Cuba. Due process rights under the US Constitution & codified in the UCMJ also did not apply in Guantanamo. The prior administration also attempted to argue that the US Courts did not have jurisdiction to review detention in Guantanamo because it was "foreign soil." The administration lost on that issue - but detention in Guantanamo Bay was intended to be a longterm non-solution.
The DOD's civilian lawyers (many of whom were inserted into the policy decision process under the direction of the White House), were generally more callous on the treatment of detainees than career military professionals. What often happened was the Combatant Status Review Tribunals would find themselves pressured to find every individual reviewed to be found to be an enemy combatant. The prosecutors before the Military Commissions were also pressured by civilians and brownnosers in uniform to charge every individual - even if they felt the evidence was insufficient or even exculpatory.
Too many honorable career JAGs have had their military careers ruined because of the political civilian ****weds in the White House & DOD. Brilliant JAGs that were coming near the up or out age limits were intentionally assigned to do "defense" work for the detainees & were given the ORDER to obtain a confession/plea regardless of the circumstances. When those JAGs upheld their oath and the honor of their uniform (by seeking to do their best to provide an adequate defense), they were passed up for promotion and retired.
Those who did half assed jobs? Promoted.
Go Figure.
eskachig
01-22-2009, 03:39 PM
Why CLOSE Guantanamo, anyway ? Why not simply REFORM it ? Is it because it's become such a symbol of the Bush era ?It is a powerful symbol, and a rally point for anti-American sentiments.
There is no real way to reform it either - people's whole problem with it is that US is holding folks without fair trials on a military base.
budgie
01-22-2009, 04:13 PM
Didn't that jerk Castro release a lot of criminals at one time that ended up in Florida?
Mariel Boat Lift.
Apparently that's where you got Al Pacino from. Say hello to my little friend!
SpartanWarrior198
01-22-2009, 05:15 PM
Just dandy. I hate Obama even more than I did before finding out about this (and, no, I don't hate him because he's black, I hate him because every time I look at my damn TV, there's a damned collector's plate or coin with his self-impressed mug on it).
I feel really safe now with lingering thoughts of those monsters (sorry, "alleged" monsters) being housed on US soil. Heck, I think it's about time I take that dream vacation to Iraq now. I can't wait to see what the exciting Baghdad nightlife is like. :roll:
FlintHillBilly
01-22-2009, 06:44 PM
This isnt news. This is no where near any real news. The real news is. Obama gets to keep his black berry. OMG. I so cant believe he gets to keep his black berry i am soooooo happy......
I will never understand why someone wants to shut down Gitmo. Or ban water boarding. Lets just put them on trial and make sure every person on trial is muslim, that sounds completely fair.
Andrew Chalmers
01-22-2009, 06:58 PM
I feel really safe now with lingering thoughts of those monsters (sorry, "alleged" monsters) being housed on US soil.
What? A SpartanWarrior is afraid of detainees escaping and getting somewhere? Seriously? What is a detainee going to do? Escape and then dig up a hidden suicide bomb belt and kill a bunch of people?
:roll:
Gerry301
01-22-2009, 07:04 PM
Ho, Ho, to Rikkers Island they go. Who's your daddy now Mohammoud. "the love boat", fantasy Island" all rolled into one. The party is over, turn out the lights, oops maybe you should leave them on. What, no more volleyball? Its off to the showers boys (don't drop the soap). Bubba gonna be your cell mate.
Yes folks this is our answer to their inhumane torture, no more will the boys be subject to panties and not having a koran in every room, to include prayer rugs and halal meals with three different choices of entry. They are gonna be treated right from now on. Yeahhhhhhhh! Bring it on.
Expert Marksman 126
01-22-2009, 07:18 PM
Im sick and tired of people saying that we're violating the 'human rights' of these terrorists. They lost the right to be called human when they became a terrorist. Also being from a different country, they have zero constitutional rights. Torture them in the open. Show the world what we're capable of.
USAF LOADMASTER
01-22-2009, 07:23 PM
Rep. John Murtha wants to quarter them in his Pennsylvania congresional district. He sees construction projects and jobs for his constituency if they do move them there. Hard to believe that this ass**** was a Marine officer at one time. What a waste of humanity!
Expert Marksman 126
01-22-2009, 07:51 PM
That plan sounds awesome! He gets some kickbacks, the prisoners get 5 star luxury, AND we put terrorists right into our heartland. Sounds good to me.
SpartanWarrior198
01-22-2009, 08:03 PM
Im sick and tired of people saying that we're violating the 'human rights' of these terrorists. They lost the right to be called human when they became a terrorist. Also being from a different country, they have zero constitutional rights. Torture them in the open. Show the world what we're capable of.
I couldn't agree with you more. I get so damn fed up with all those bleeding hearts that wanna just give every Johnny Jihad on earth a big hug and a wet, sloppy kiss.
jango
01-22-2009, 08:28 PM
I think that Guantanamo bay was always suppose to be a short term facility. So it is good to see that Obama is treating it as such. Do you think that they will build a permanent prison for these detainees now.
Hellfish
01-22-2009, 08:29 PM
Why don't we just lock them up in any one of our SuperMax prisons? Or are they all full?
Geezah
01-22-2009, 08:29 PM
What? A SpartanWarrior is afraid of detainees escaping and getting somewhere? Seriously? What is a detainee going to do? Escape and then dig up a hidden suicide bomb belt and kill a bunch of people?
:roll:
Well, considering a large quantity of those released have gone on to act out on the religious beliefs, I wouldn't say it's so much a fear, but why would we give them any of the comforts that those that are currently held in the US for being naughty enjoy?!
Pentagon: Ex-Gitmo detainees resume terror acts
Dozens of suspected terrorists released by the United States from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, are believed to have returned to terrorism activities, according to the Pentagon.
Since 2002, 61 former detainees have committed or are suspected to have committed attacks after being released from the detention camp, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said at a briefing Tuesday.
The number is up since the Pentagon's last report in March 2008 when officials said 37 former detainees had been suspected of returning to the battlefield since 2002.
Since 2007, more than 100 detainees were released, significantly more than in previous years, according to Pentagon officials.
According to the statistics, of the 61 former detainees that are believed to have returned to fighting, 18 have been officially confirmed while 43 are suspected, Morrell said.
The 18 were confirmed through intelligence, photographs, fingerprints and other information, Morrell said.
Of the 43 other detainees suspected of taking part in terrorist attacks, only "plausible reporting" on their activities indicated some kind of involvement, according to Morrell.
Officials would only identify one of the confirmed attackers, Adballah Salih al-Ajmi, a Kuwaiti man released from U.S. custody at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in 2005. Pentagon officials said Salih al-Ajmi blew himself up in a suicide attack in Iraq in April 2008.
Since 2002, the Pentagon has released about 520 detainees to their home countries or counties that agreed to take them. Some have been released in full by those countries while others are still being held.
"There, clearly, are people who are being held at Guantanamo who are still bent on doing harm to America, Americans and our allies, so there will have to be some solution for the likes of them," Morrell said.
About 250 detainees remain held at Guantanamo and about 60 of those detainees have been cleared for release by the Pentagon, but their home countries will not take them or the U.S. believes they could be harmed by their governments if returned.
President-elect Barack Obama has said he intends to shut down Guantanamo. Earlier this week, two sources close to the Obama transition team said he could issue an order to do so as early as his first week in office, saying that Obama believes "the legal framework at Gitmo has failed to successfully and swiftly prosecute terrorists."
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/14/gitmo.detainees/)
pascalywood
01-22-2009, 08:33 PM
Im sick and tired of people saying that we're violating the 'human rights' of these terrorists. They lost the right to be called human when they became a terrorist. Also being from a different country, they have zero constitutional rights. Torture them in the open. Show the world what we're capable of.
America, **** yeah. :cantbeli:
Expert Marksman 126
01-22-2009, 08:34 PM
Why don't we just lock them up in any one of our SuperMax prisons? Or are they all full?
Our prison system is already overcrowded, but thats not really an issue, theres not that many terrorists. The problem is 1. keeping them away from the media, thats what they want, and 2. keeping them safe. Felons may be felons, but theyre still americans, and americans dont like terrorists.
Hellfish
01-22-2009, 08:34 PM
Our prison system is already overcrowded, but thats not really an issue, theres not that many terrorists. The problem is 1. keeping them away from the media, thats what they want, and 2. keeping them safe. Felons may be felons, but theyre still americans, and americans dont like terrorists.
So now all of a sudden you want to keep the terrorists safe?
wicked_hind
01-22-2009, 08:36 PM
Why don't we just lock them up in any one of our SuperMax prisons? Or are they all full?
General population in San Quentin, Pelican Bay, or hell, even L.A. County jail sounds like a suitable substitute.
Lienad
01-22-2009, 08:37 PM
at least the **** meat sandwich tradition will end.
Expert Marksman 126
01-22-2009, 08:43 PM
So now all of a sudden you want to keep the terrorists safe?
I could give a ****, in fact I would perfer that they be executed upon outliving thier usefullness, but it is an issue for the government. You really dont need to twist every word I say.
Hellfish
01-22-2009, 08:45 PM
I could give a ****, in fact I would perfer that they be executed upon outliving thier usefullness, but it is an issue for the government. You really dont need to twist every word I say.
Then you need to watch what you're saying.
Expert Marksman 126
01-22-2009, 08:47 PM
Then you need to watch what you're saying.
Whatever you say.
I couldn't agree with you more. I get so damn fed up with all those bleeding hearts that wanna just give every Johnny Jihad on earth a big hug and a wet, sloppy kiss.
So keep them in some bizarre legal limbo and "torture them in the open" in some sadist's paradise or give them big hugs and sloppy wet bleeding heart kisses? Those are the only two choices we have huh?
budgie
01-22-2009, 09:03 PM
I feel really safe now with lingering thoughts of those monsters (sorry, "alleged" monsters) being housed on US soil. Heck, I think it's about time I take that dream vacation to Iraq now. I can't wait to see what the exciting Baghdad nightlife is like. :roll:
Oh didn't they tell you? The surge fixed everything and its now the land of milk and honey. They got hookers, casinos and fully-fledge Jeffersonian democracy. Three girls to every guy. It's better than Vegas dude!
Im sick and tired of people saying that we're violating the 'human rights' of these terrorists. They lost the right to be called human when they became a terrorist. Also being from a different country, they have zero constitutional rights. Torture them in the open. Show the world what we're capable of.
I love these handles like "SuperSnipa", "Killa6.8mm" and such. Doesn't wearing one's credentials on such an open forum compromise "Opsec"?
Geezah
01-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Oh didn't they tell you? The surge fixed everything and its now the land of milk and honey. They got hookers, casinos and fully-fledge Jeffersonian democracy. Three girls to every guy. It's better than Vegas dude!
Isn't your avatar a little over the top, considering he's not even your President, or are you proving my point about the second coming?
budgie
01-22-2009, 09:08 PM
You f#*kin' love it!
jimmyboots
01-22-2009, 09:41 PM
Oh didn't they tell you? The surge fixed everything and its now the land of milk and honey. They got hookers, casinos and fully-fledge Jeffersonian democracy. Three girls to every guy. It's better than Vegas
given enough time itll be as safe as Japan.
deagle
01-23-2009, 01:09 AM
he's probably gonna bug them all first, so they lead to bigger terrorist nests to mark for extermination. Obama knows how to take care of business.
Obama's a naive idiot.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/23/mideast/detainee.1-414168.php
Expect to see a lot more stories like this in the near future if he gets his wish.
DetailedEntrails
01-23-2009, 11:48 AM
Fidel actually made a statement saying he supports Obama now. :roll:
thats just what we need communists that are happy with us.
Hahaahahaha, Castro trolled the **** outta you.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/akegata/SuccessfulTrollisSuccessful.jpg
DetailedEntrails
01-23-2009, 11:52 AM
Just dandy. I hate Obama even more than I did before finding out about this (and, no, I don't hate him because he's black, I hate him because every time I look at my damn TV, there's a damned collector's plate or coin with his self-impressed mug on it).
I feel really safe now with lingering thoughts of those monsters (sorry, "alleged" monsters) being housed on US soil. Heck, I think it's about time I take that dream vacation to Iraq now. I can't wait to see what the exciting Baghdad nightlife is like. :roll:
Its not his fault. I dont think hes telling all these people "MAKE COLEECTORSS PLATEZ OF ME!!!" Blame the media and dumbasses who buy this ****, not him. Im getting sick and tired as you of the media trying to make a quick buck on him but im not blaming him one bit.
DetailedEntrails
01-23-2009, 11:53 AM
Why don't we just lock them up in any one of our SuperMax prisons? Or are they all full?
That would be awesome and id imagine if they where in gen pop it would be a death sentence. Imagine when bubba gets ahold of them.
Createdeemcee
01-23-2009, 11:57 AM
yes put them in DOC with t-rock, And L-dawg. I have never seen an arabic inmate (Seriously) in any of MD DOC facilities and Ive toured them all., I'm sure theyed be welcomed fish.
DetailedEntrails
01-23-2009, 12:01 PM
I can hear Tron Tron lickin his chops already.
Geezah
01-23-2009, 02:01 PM
Obama's a naive idiot.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/23/mideast/detainee.1-414168.php
Expect to see a lot more stories like this in the near future if he gets his wish.
I agree 100%
I would say this is perfect for the Islamofascists to start recruiting while based in the US, after all I'm sure there are plenty of young men just looking for something to welcome them with open arms.
Expert Marksman 126
01-23-2009, 03:45 PM
Oh didn't they tell you? The surge fixed everything and its now the land of milk and honey. They got hookers, casinos and fully-fledge Jeffersonian democracy. Three girls to every guy. It's better than Vegas dude!
I love these handles like "SuperSnipa", "Killa6.8mm" and such. Doesn't wearing one's credentials on such an open forum compromise "Opsec"?
I shoot the expert divison in NRA ****e and 3 position competition, and I am a disingusihed expert (the highest award possible) in NRA smallbore. So I am in fact an Expert Marksman. You shouldnt mock people without all the facts.
Expert Marksman 126
01-23-2009, 03:49 PM
Obama's a naive idiot.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/23/mideast/detainee.1-414168.php
Expect to see a lot more stories like this in the near future if he gets his wish.
Gee what a suprise- a terrorist in prison IS STILL A TERRORIST! I wonder why letting him go didnt make him love America. Thats wierd.
Great national security policy- catch and release.
California Joe
01-23-2009, 03:53 PM
I shoot the expert divison in NRA ****e and 3 position competition, and I am a disingusihed expert (the highest award possible) in NRA smallbore. So I am in fact an Expert Marksman. You shouldnt mock people without all the facts.
Then why don't you post some cool stuff in the Equipment section about guns and how to shoot in those matches, instead of worrying about the Presidents middle name. Because I plan on shooting in a few service rifle matches this year and I could use some pointers.
Then why don't you post some cool stuff in the Equipment section about guns and how to shoot in those matches, instead of worrying about the Presidents middle name. Because I plan on shooting in a few service rifle matches this year and I could use some pointers.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2899/pointingyc1.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5265/dalailamapointinguy2.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2079/pointerho1.jpg
rOjOdogg
01-23-2009, 04:11 PM
The congress memebers from San Diego are going ape**** at the thought of them moving the detainees from GITMO to either Miramar of Camp Pendalton.
Fargin
01-23-2009, 04:12 PM
I like this idea of not sacrificing ideals for a false sense of security.
I like this idea of not sacrificing ideals for a false sense of security.
That's dangerously naive. It may make Obama feel warm and fuzzy inside but such naivete is not a luxury we can afford.
Ichhabe
01-23-2009, 04:37 PM
Im sick and tired of people saying that we're violating the 'human rights' of these terrorists. They lost the right to be called human when they became a terrorist. Also being from a different country, they have zero constitutional rights. Torture them in the open. Show the world what we're capable of.
"Cluelessly seeking Cluelessness" << You were that as a badge of honour. Sweet Lord, you should be ashamed of yourself.
TallGuy
01-23-2009, 04:41 PM
Ship them to Sweden, that's punishment enough....
Ichhabe
01-23-2009, 04:50 PM
Ship them to Sweden, that's punishment enough....
...or to Iceland. After you peeps sat fire to the christmas-tree we gave you, you deserve everything bad comming your way, hehe.
Ship them to Sweden, that's punishment enough....
Really? My country isn't furious over it's politicans for the moment, how's it going over at your side? ;)
OnT: Give the scums a trial to begin with.
LineDoggie
01-23-2009, 09:24 PM
What? A SpartanWarrior is afraid of detainees escaping and getting somewhere? Seriously? What is a detainee going to do? Escape and then dig up a hidden suicide bomb belt and kill a bunch of people?
:roll: I guess you wont mind them near where you live then right?
commanding
01-23-2009, 10:04 PM
Ho, Ho, to Rikkers Island they go. Who's your daddy now Mohammoud. "the love boat", fantasy Island" all rolled into one. The party is over, turn out the lights, oops maybe you should leave them on. What, no more volleyball? Its off to the showers boys (don't drop the soap). Bubba gonna be your cell mate.
Yes folks this is our answer to their inhumane torture, no more will the boys be subject to panties and not having a koran in every room, to include prayer rugs and halal meals with three different choices of entry. They are gonna be treated right from now on. Yeahhhhhhhh! Bring it on.
I like this man's idea! As a fellow on the radio used to say "they would have some night's lovin they would NEVER forget"
Expert Marksman 126
01-25-2009, 07:21 PM
"Cluelessly seeking Cluelessness" << You were that as a badge of honour. Sweet Lord, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Why? Because I view terrorists as the lowest form of life on this planet? Or because Im sick of politicians pussyfooting around and not getting the job done? What do you suggest? Giving the terrorists a hug and asking pretty please? Because thats a great way to get killed.
Slouch
01-25-2009, 08:12 PM
Back on topic...
Released detainees return to terror trail (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24960621-5003402,00.html)
TWO men released from the war on terror prison at Guantanamo Bay have appeared in a video posted on a jihadist website, the SITE monitoring service has reported.
"We remain concerned about ex-Guantanamo detainees who have reaffiliated with terrorist organisations after their departure," said Gordon.
"We will continue to work with the international community to mitigate the threat they pose," he said.
I have a feeling we're going to be seeing a lot more of this in the coming months. Yes, these two were released before Obama came to office, but his recent exec. order won't be making the situation any better.
Europe (EU) will probably take 60, the ones who are supposedly innocent, speak hold without evidence. After case to case studies certain countries will take them, the chinese ones are amongst them. At least that's the plan as i heard it this morning. Some countries are still split (Germany for example).
And we're not talking as 'inmates' but probably as immigrants or asylum seekers.
http://www.iht.com/articles/*******/2009/01/26/europe/OUKWD-UK-GUANTANAMO-EU.php
"We have a clear legal situation: you can either immigrate or ask for asylum. We should stick to that."
Blougat
01-26-2009, 06:09 AM
You want a solution to your "Terr" problem ? well i can suggest looking at what the ol' Hitler had in mind and now that the commies love you guys via Obama just go and "purge" the lot like Stalin did......
oh i think this is going to stir a bit......
budgie
01-26-2009, 07:03 AM
Why? Because I view terrorists as the lowest form of life on this planet? Or because Im sick of politicians pussyfooting around and not getting the job done? What do you suggest? Giving the terrorists a hug and asking pretty please? Because thats a great way to get killed.
Can you prove every inmate in Guantanamo is a terrorist?
Because here's the facts as they stand: some were terorists. Some were traitors. Some were 'unlawful combatants' ( a hazy term at best), some were, Fighting on the wrong side; some were in the wrong place at the wrong time, some were just dobbed in by neighbours who wanted all their goats. Some have been convicted, some released due to lack of evidence, some exonerated. Some turned to terrorism as a result of their incarceration.
There are all sorts in Guantanamo and just assuming they're all bad only makes you feel better about the torture and other illegitimate processes that occur there. The f#%king place doesn't work!
La8pv
01-26-2009, 07:52 AM
You can ship the Guantanamo inmates to Bush's ranch and make a reality show out of it.
Holycrusader
01-26-2009, 08:14 AM
You can ship the Guantanamo inmates to Bush's ranch and make a reality show out of it.
That would be interesting... But im not sure if I want to see the outcome of this :)
commanding
01-26-2009, 08:55 AM
Can you prove every inmate in Guantanamo is a terrorist?
Because here's the facts as they stand: some were terorists. Some were traitors. Some were 'unlawful combatants' ( a hazy term at best), some were, Fighting on the wrong side; some were in the wrong place at the wrong time, some were just dobbed in by neighbours who wanted all their goats. Some have been convicted, some released due to lack of evidence, some exonerated. Some turned to terrorism as a result of their incarceration.
There are all sorts in Guantanamo and just assuming they're all bad only makes you feel better about the torture and other illegitimate processes that occur there. The f#%king place doesn't work!
Well everyone is due their own opinion. Unfortunately yours nor mine neither one count for much. The word "illegitimate" really doesn't stand up in this context. As best I can tell none of the souls in GITMO were tortured. John McCain was tortured. GITMO is like Club Med compared to most US state prisions. I personally would love to see them all tossed into the general population of US prisions, after trial of course.:)
"unlawful combatants" = crappy fighters.
...As best I can tell none of the souls in GITMO were tortured. John McCain was tortured. GITMO is like Club Med compared to most US state prisions...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011303372.html?hpid=topnews
The top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to trial has concluded that the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."
"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution.
....
"For 160 days his only contact was with the interrogators," said Crawford, who personally reviewed Qahtani's interrogation records and other military documents. "Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18-to-20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches. And insults to his mother and sister."
....
The interrogation, portions of which have been previously described by other news organizations, including The Washington Post, was so intense that Qahtani had to be hospitalized twice at Guantanamo with bradycardia, a condition in which the heart rate falls below 60 beats a minute and which in extreme cases can lead to heart failure and death. At one point Qahtani's heart rate dropped to 35 beats per minute, the record shows.
Sounds like Club Med alright
commanding
01-26-2009, 10:17 AM
GITMO:
interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition
John McCain:
I was hauled into an empty room and kept there for four days. At intervals, the guards returned to administer beatings.
One guard held me while the others pounded away.
They cracked several of my ribs and broke a couple of teeth. Weakened by beatings and dysentery, with my right leg again almost useless, I found it impossible to stand.
On the third night I lay in my blood and waste, so tired and hurt that I could not move. Three guards lifted me to my feet and gave me the worst beating yet. They left me lying on the floor moaning from the stabbing pain in my re-fractured arm.
Despairing of any relief from pain and further torture, I tried to take my life. After several unsuccessful attempts, I managed to stand. Up-ending the waste bucket, I stepped on it, bracing myself against the wall with my good arm.
I looped my shirt through the shutters. As I looped it around my neck, a guard saw the shirt through the window, pulled me off the bucket and beat me.
Later, I made a second, feebler attempt at suicide. On the fourth day, I gave up. I signed a confession that "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pilot".
The guards ordered me to record my confession on tape. I refused, and was beaten until I consented.
Those were the worst two weeks of my life. I shook, as if my disgrace was a fever and no one would ever look on me again except in pity or contempt.
+++++++++++
and McCain's was mild compared to Admiral Stockdale.
I've never understood the "well they torture worse than we do so that excuses our torture" argument.
commanding
01-26-2009, 11:08 AM
I've never understood the "well they torture worse than we do so that excuses our torture" argument.
then it seems we would have to empty our prisons. is it not torture to lock up someone and leave them in cells with other homicidal maniacs for 40 years? I do not believe denying someone clothing, or sleep, is torture. Read about the local prisons in NYC during the early 1900s. prisoners were locked up in windowless rooms, with sewage dripping on them 24/7, with lice in their meager food, etc. was that torture?
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/clovisfirst/MILITARY/atta.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/clovisfirst/MILITARY/terrorist.jpg
Dragunov
01-26-2009, 01:10 PM
Are you boys ready for your **** meat sandwich? rofl
http://www.youtube.com/v/H2ezfSPd3cI
commanding
01-26-2009, 01:56 PM
Gitmo pix:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/clovisfirst/MILITARY/gitmo-cell.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/clovisfirst/MILITARY/gitmo-large.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/clovisfirst/MILITARY/gitmo.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/clovisfirst/MILITARY/FE_DA_071210gitmo_25007.jpg
Note it is the "unlawful combatants" (guys running around in civies, killing coalition troops) who are being handled with much greater respect than they deserve.
then it seems we would have to empty our prisons. is it not torture to lock up someone and leave them in cells with other homicidal maniacs for 40 years?
Imprisonment and torture are two different things.
I do not believe denying someone clothing, or sleep is food. Read about the local prisons in NYC during the early 1900s. prisoners were locked up in windowless rooms, with sewage dripping on them 24/7, with lice in their meager food, etc. was that torture?
I'm sure lots of things went on in the early 1900s that wouldn't fly by today's standards
Note it is the "unlawful combatants" (guys running around in civies, killing coalition troops) who are being handled with much greater respect than they deserve.
It's easy to treat good people well. It's harder to treat bad people well. Just one of those things that separates us from the terrorists and tin-pot dictatorships of the world
Martial
01-26-2009, 02:26 PM
Should have been legally shot on the field of battle per Geneva convention.
commanding
01-26-2009, 02:32 PM
problem is, some people are so "bad" that the only solution is to either kill them or lock them up forever.
Torture, in my view is justified when required. However, what happens/happened at GITMO is/was not torture. Those dudes were given all the religious items they needed, they were allowed to keep their beards and other cultural identity items, floor toilets, etc, etc., given as much respect as they could be allowed (when they throw feces at the guards..that goes out the window). Long story short, they got a good deal.
However, as I said if they think they would be better off in a USA high security prison in Colorado, ship em there.
I think they are FAR better off where they are. And so are we.
However, what happens/happened at GITMO is/was not torture.
The top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to trial has concluded that the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."
"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution.
....
"For 160 days his only contact was with the interrogators," said Crawford, who personally reviewed Qahtani's interrogation records and other military documents. "Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18-to-20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches. And insults to his mother and sister."
....
The interrogation, portions of which have been previously described by other news organizations, including The Washington Post, was so intense that Qahtani had to be hospitalized twice at Guantanamo with bradycardia, a condition in which the heart rate falls below 60 beats a minute and which in extreme cases can lead to heart failure and death. At one point Qahtani's heart rate dropped to 35 beats per minute, the record shows.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011303372.html?hpid=topnews
commanding
01-26-2009, 03:07 PM
They insulted his mother and sister??? Oh, the humanity!! Stop the abuse!rofl
They insulted his mother and sister??? Oh, the humanity!! Stop the abuse!rofl
The interrogation, portions of which have been previously described by other news organizations, including The Washington Post, was so intense that Qahtani had to be hospitalized twice at Guantanamo with bradycardia, a condition in which the heart rate falls below 60 beats a minute and which in extreme cases can lead to heart failure and death. At one point Qahtani's heart rate dropped to 35 beats per minute, the record shows.
...........
commanding
01-26-2009, 03:10 PM
“If you are going to war against a major enemy, go knock the hell out of him fast, and go in there to kill him and get it over with.” - Lt. Gen Hal Moore
“If you are going to war against a major enemy, go knock the hell out of him fast, and go in there to kill him and get it over with.” - Lt. Gen Hal Moore
I agree. Doesn't really offer much guidance on how to treat prisoners though.
commanding
01-26-2009, 03:37 PM
well, let's just drop it. we are not gonna agree, so what is use of ranting on and on. just a disagreement.
SpartanWarrior198
01-27-2009, 03:52 AM
You know, I was commenting on this in another forum and got to wondering something. While the detention center there might be closed in a year, does anyone here really think that the base itself will be shut down?
commanding
01-27-2009, 11:00 AM
You know, I was commenting on this in another forum and got to wondering something. While the detention center there might be closed in a year, does anyone here really think that the base itself will be shut down?
Nope. We definitely will not shut down the base. It has been there for 106 years. It is a prime spot to listen to Cuban electronic air traffic, and maintain a thumb in the eye of the commie regime there.
If for nothing else, the thumb in the eye part, is reason enough to keep it open.
Why, Teddy Roosevelt would roll over in his grave! (as would all the Rough Riders)
Zoomie
01-27-2009, 11:30 AM
You know, I was commenting on this in another forum and got to wondering something. While the detention center there might be closed in a year, does anyone here really think that the base itself will be shut down?
If you'd looked at the first page, you'd see that I pointed out that all Obama wants to do is close down Camp Delta, not the base.
DetailedEntrails
01-27-2009, 12:17 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/clovisfirst/MILITARY/terrorist.jpg
http://blogs.commercialappeal.com/blake/Dunking%20Donuts.jpg
"Time to make the donuts"
SpartanWarrior198
01-27-2009, 03:50 PM
If you'd looked at the first page, you'd see that I pointed out that all Obama wants to do is close down Camp Delta, not the base.
Actually, I did look on the first page, but I missed that.
Edit: I just reread the article and did some searching elsewhere and didn't find anything that referenced Camp Delta itself, rather than Gitmo, being closed.
Wally1967
01-27-2009, 04:03 PM
US ask Brit and Australia to take some Gismo prisoners,
Brits said no
and Australia said fvck off we full lol.
Zoomie
01-27-2009, 04:16 PM
Actually, I did look on the first page, but I missed that.
Edit: I just reread the article and did some searching elsewhere and didn't find anything that referenced Camp Delta itself, rather than Gitmo, being closed.
They mention the prison, which is Camp Delta:
The Obama administration will launch a review of the classified files of the approximately 250 detainees at Guantanamo Bay (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Guantanamo+Bay?tid=informline) immediately after taking office, as part of an intensive effort to close the U.S. prison in Cuba, according to people who advised the campaign on detainee issues.
Poland not eager to take detainees
Poland's foreign minister says in remarks published on Saturday that Warsaw is not inclined to help the United States close the prison camps at Guantánamo by taking detainees.
http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2008/11/21/19/761-Detainees_XBL101.embedded.prod_affiliate.56.JPG
By Associated Press
WARSAW, Poland -- Poland's Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski rejected the idea of taking in detainees freed from the prison camps at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, in comments published Saturday.
Sikorski told the weekend issue of the Dziennik daily that he is ''not eager'' to take in prisoners from Guantánamo, whom he described as foreigners who speak ''exotic languages.'' He also indicated they would have to remain in detention, a situation he said ''would be quite a challenge'' for the Polish prison system.
U.S. President-elect Barack Obama has pledged to close the detention center in southeast Cuba and his defense secretary, Robert Gates, has called for proposals for transferring the remaining 250 or so detainees.
Sikorski said in the interview that the prison at Guantánamo was ''one of the more serious mistakes of the (Bush) administration'' and that the issue is ''not at the center of attention'' in Poland.
Poland contributed troops to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and has also come under fire from Human Rights Watch and the Council for Europe for allegedly hosting secret prisons used by the CIA to hold and question terror suspects between 2001 and 2004.
Prime Minister Donald Tusk confirmed in August that he had asked prosecutors to investigate the matter.http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/story/828469.html
Nobody want to take care about "poor people".:roll:
socom6
01-27-2009, 05:50 PM
I say send em back to the fortress at mazar al sharif. Execute the hardcore obstinate murderous bastards, free some of the Taliban prisoners as a goodwill gesture, keep the rest until it is convenient to release them/or force them back to their homelands and make their governments exterminate them.
Guantanamo Bay prison wasnt worth the crap from the global liberal left in my opinion, Bush should have closed it down before he left office.
California Joe
01-27-2009, 06:14 PM
^I'm thinking that's about the easiest way to resolve it.
But I still want Lojacks implanted in the ones we release.
Expert Marksman 126
01-27-2009, 10:20 PM
I say send em back to the fortress at mazar al sharif. Execute the hardcore obstinate murderous bastards, free some of the Taliban prisoners as a goodwill gesture, keep the rest until it is convenient to release them/or force them back to their homelands and make their governments exterminate them.
Guantanamo Bay prison wasnt worth the crap from the global liberal left in my opinion, Bush should have closed it down before he left office.
Hell yeah. unfortunately that will never happen. Obama will probably make them government officals. And no I am not referencing the muslim religon I am referencing how we treat terrorists like princes. It's BS.
I like the lojack idea. Very inventive. Will those work in Pakistan?
shocker1
01-29-2009, 04:39 AM
The ACLU of Colorado applauds President Obama for making the closure of the prison at Guantánamo his administration’s first priority. We welcome these steps towards restoring the rule of law in America. For those considering Colorado’s ADX Florence prison (Supermax) as an alternative facility for housing these detainees, we offer these considerations. Many of the detainees are being held without charges while still awaiting trial. They haven’t been convicted of any crime and for many there is no evidence against them. While a transfer to the Supermax facility will indisputably bring the detainees under the protection of the United States justice system, overall their living conditions will not improve.
This prison is the most secure federal prison in the nation. Most individuals are kept in solitary confinement for at least 23 hours each day. They live in a 7×12 ft room with walls and furniture built almost entirely out of concrete. The single free hour is spent exercising alone in a separate concrete chamber. The federal government reserves these conditions for the worst of the worst, such as convicted terrorists Ted Kaczynski, 1993 World Trade Center bombers Omar Abdel-Rahman and Ramzi Yousef, and Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph. The cases against these men were clear, and they themselves were unapologetic in their guilt.
In contrast, many of the Guantánamo detainees are merely suspected of being guilty. They are held without charge, without the ability to see the evidence against them or to offer contrary evidence in their own defense. Several of them have been released after the last administration finally admitted it had no proof of their guilt. While at Guantánamo they endured psychological and physical torture such as waterboarding and ****** degradation, but at least they had two hours of exercise per day and some contact with others, if only by yelling from cell to cell. Waterboarding and the like won’t happen at Supermax, but for these men awaiting trial, indefinite detention in total sound and sight isolation is simply another form of torture, one which makes a mockery of “innocent until proven guilty.” To release these individuals from Guantánamo Bay, only to send them to the toughest prison in the country could well be considered a move “out of the frying pan into the fire.”
Cathryn Hazouri
Executive Director, ACLU of Colorado
http://coloradoindependent.com/19970/colorado-aclu-supermax-move-for-gitmo-detainees-would-mock-justice
commanding
01-29-2009, 08:48 AM
^I'm thinking that's about the easiest way to resolve it.
But I still want Lojacks implanted in the ones we release.
How about about 8 oz. of C4 explosive with a radio detonater that has to have a specific code to set the thing off...which we could do via satillite, PLUS the lojack?
Put the whole thing deep in the chest cavity just below the heart with an anti tamper device.
Personally, I think old Usama missed his big chance. He could have surrended to the coalition troops, been at Gitmo, and be on the verge of either being set free, or sent back to Saudi to do artwork therapy (which is what they do to rehabilitate the terrorists). Worst case he might go on trial here in the US and get the needle.
Actually, with President Obama, I think Usama (or Osama) might just be so CHARMED by the new pres, that he might turn his own self in to the coalition troops.
I mean....they only killed about 3000 Americans on Sept. 11th, not counting all the others they killed in Madrid, London, etc. (sarcastic me)
I wish someone would start a thread on what to do with Osama should we catch the dude alive. I bet we have some real creative ways to deal with him. A very slow and painful, painful death. Gosh I am evil. :)
commanding
01-29-2009, 08:51 AM
http://blogs.commercialappeal.com/blake/Dunking%20Donuts.jpg
"Time to make the donuts"
Heh Dude! My donut's got a big black hair in it!!p-)
garamundege
01-29-2009, 12:10 PM
Seems to me there's a modicum of truth in the notion that the more civilised a society becomes, the less able it is to defend itself
commanding
01-29-2009, 02:38 PM
MIAMI (*******) - The chief judge for the Guantanamo war crimes court on Thursday refused President Barack Obama (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/barackobama)'s request to delay court proceedings against a prisoner charged with plotting an attack that killed 17 U.S. sailors.
Hours after taking office last week, Obama ordered Guantanamo prosecutors to seek 120-day delays in all pending cases in order to give his new administration time to decide whether to scrap the trials.
But the judge, Army Col. James Pohl, said tribunal rules give the judges sole authority to delay cases and that postponing proceedings against Abd al Rahim al Nashiri was not reasonable and "does not serve the interest of justice."
Nashiri is charged with conspiring with al Qaeda to send an explosives-laden boat into the side of the USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden in 2000. The attack killed 17 U.S. sailors and Nashiri would face execution if convicted. His arraignment was set for early February.
rOjOdogg
01-31-2009, 04:35 PM
MIAMI (*******) - The chief judge for the Guantanamo war crimes court on Thursday refused President Barack Obama (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/barackobama)'s request to delay court proceedings against a prisoner charged with plotting an attack that killed 17 U.S. sailors.
Hours after taking office last week, Obama ordered Guantanamo prosecutors to seek 120-day delays in all pending cases in order to give his new administration time to decide whether to scrap the trials.
But the judge, Army Col. James Pohl, said tribunal rules give the judges sole authority to delay cases and that postponing proceedings against Abd al Rahim al Nashiri was not reasonable and "does not serve the interest of justice."
Nashiri is charged with conspiring with al Qaeda to send an explosives-laden boat into the side of the USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden in 2000. The attack killed 17 U.S. sailors and Nashiri would face execution if convicted. His arraignment was set for early February.
Good for the Judge, its about time the US Military stand up to the civilians and do what is right and just. UCMJ is better than the federal and civilian courts of the USA.
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