Why are people so obssessed with Israel?

[dubrava]

Hello from Croatia.

I am watching the reactions of croatian media on situation in Gaza and the reactions of people on forums. The same thing happened 2 years before during war with Hezzbollah.

When israeli rockets hit arab houses and Arabs that makes headlines...Pictures of dead arab children are everywhere...But when israeli civilians and israeli houses are victimized that will not make headlines.

I was in Abhazia this year, shortly before Georgian-Ossetian -Russian war. No one in Croatia has ever heard of Abkhazia and its conflict with Georgia. On croatian forums nobody complained and mourned dead ossetian or dead georgian people.

Croatian media also rarely report about actions of chechen rebels and the destabilized situation in Ingushetia and Dagestan. p-)

But every time Israel makes a move toward military solution that is on the headline, bunch of leftist and islamist commentaries are left on TV and Internet.

No one cared when Turkey entered northern Iraq to fight Qurds. When clashes between Hamas and Fatah left 300 dead no one complained.:cantbeli:

What do you think about that?

[WarDancer]

Anti-Seminitism in the media is now socially acceptable. With liberals taking power the world over, anti-semitism is the scapegoat for the worlds ills and liberal policies will solve them. First, the "Jewish Problem" must be taken care of.

[kamaz]

Hello from Croatia.

I am watching the reactions of croatian media on situation in Gaza and the reactions of people on forums. The same thing happened 2 years before during war with Hezzbollah.

When israeli rockets hit arab houses and Arabs that makes headlines...Pictures of dead arab children are everywhere...But when israeli civilians and israeli houses are victimized that will not make headlines.

I was in Abhazia this year, shortly before Georgian-Ossetian -Russian war. No one in Croatia has ever heard of Abkhazia and its conflict with Georgia. On croatian forums nobody complained and mourned dead ossetian or dead georgian people.

Croatian media also rarely report about actions of chechen rebels and the destabilized situation in Ingushetia and Dagestan. p-)

But every time Israel makes a move toward military solution that is on the headline, bunch of leftist and islamist commentaries are left on TV and Internet.

No one cared when Turkey entered northern Iraq to fight Qurds. When clashes between Hamas and Fatah left 300 dead no one complained.:cantbeli:

What do you think about that?



these are good questions. Why for example, does the world not hold special conferences and 'fact finding' missions for wars like Sri Lanka, where theres a full scale war going on right now, with thousands of people killed or injured?

the answer has many parts.

1 - Israel is seen by europe as a 'western' nation, a 1st world nation, living in a 3rd world region. Many europeans see Israel as an extention of European colonial past, and have obvious guilty feelings about it (nevermind the fact that theres nothing colonial about Israel). By blaming Israel for anything that goes on there, they are placating their own guilt about their own past. This is especially true for UK, a country whose colonial past is now very visible in half of the world's conflicts (sri lanka included)

2. - Collective Arab power. Arabs see Israel as an anathema to their historical conquests. A non-muslim nation amidst a Muslim sea of people. And a nation that defeeated Muslims repeatedly on the battle field. This is a matter of collective insult to the Muslim mind. Thats why the collected hate and vicious anti-semitism seen in the Arab world.

3. - the drama of the story. This story has everything the news people want. Drama, death, violence, hope, religion, passion, 2 different narratives. etc etc. This story sells, thats the bottom line.

How many people were following Russia's war in Chechnya as close to as they were following Israels actions in Gaza? The sad simple fact is that Israel is the Jew of the nations, always playing by different set of rules. What Russia, US, Turkey and others can do to defend themselves, is suddenly called a 'genocide' when Israel does the same.

[dubrava]

these are good questions. Why for example, does the world not hold special conferences and 'fact finding' missions for wars like Sri Lanka, where theres a full scale war going on right now, with thousands of people killed or injured?

the answer has many parts.

1 - Israel is seen by europe as a 'western' nation, a 1st world nation, living in a 3rd world region. Many europeans see Israel as an extention of European colonial past, and have obvious guilty feelings about it (nevermind the fact that theres nothing colonial about Israel). By blaming Israel for anything that goes on there, they are placating their own guilt about their own past. This is especially true for UK, a country whose colonial past is now very visible in half of the world's conflicts (sri lanka included)



How many people were following Russia's war in Chechnya as close to as they were following Israels actions in Gaza? The sad simple fact is that Israel is the Jew of the nations, always playing by different set of rules. What Russia, US, Turkey and others can do to defend themselves, is suddenly called a 'genocide' when Israel does the same.

You first explanation seems logical.

To answer thing about Chechnya, people think that the war is over. I started a discussion about Chechnya-Ingushetia a few days ago and people are convinced that there are only 500 rebels left and that soon they will be finished.roflroflrofl

There is one man in Croatia, who in 70-ies tried to kidnapp an american plane and send a message to the world that Croatia needs to be independent from Yugoslavia.
Leftist media call him a terrorist. If he was a Palestinian he would not be a terrorist.:)

[a_very_ex_STAB]

1 - Israel is seen by europe as a 'western' nation, a 1st world nation, living in a 3rd world region. Many europeans see Israel as an extention of European colonial past, and have obvious guilty feelings about it (nevermind the fact that theres nothing colonial about Israel). By blaming Israel for anything that goes on there, they are placating their own guilt about their own past. This is especially true for UK, a country whose colonial past is now very visible in half of the world's conflicts (sri lanka included)

Or to put it more accurately people in these backward regions of the world could not handle responsibility and live peacefully together once their benevolent British rulers left them to their own devices.

As for Israel yes it was in a way created out of Western and specifically Continental European guilt over the holocaust. Unfortunately the Western powers decided to expiate their feelings of guilt by giving somebody elses (who were entirely innocent with regard to the holocaust) land as a form of compensation. The rest is history :roll: It's a complete sh1t sandwich.

[kamaz]

Or to put it more accurately people in these backward regions of the world could not handle responsibility and live peacefully together once their benevolent British rulers left them to their own devices.

As for Israel yes it was in a way created out of Western and specifically Continental European guilt over the holocaust. Unfortunately the Western powers decided to expiate their feelings of guilt by giving somebody elses (who were entirely innocent with regard to the holocaust) land as a form of compensation. The rest is history :roll: It's a complete sh1t sandwich.

this is a feasable explanation only if you choose to ignore the very real 5000+ year Jewish connection to their homeland, following the war against Rome in 70AD, as recorded by Josephus.

there are many elements at play here, not just europeans 'giving' the land to the jews. This is grossly inaccurate and incomplete statement.

[dubrava]

Or to put it more accurately people in these backward regions of the world could not handle responsibility and live peacefully together once their benevolent British rulers left them to their own devices.

As for Israel yes it was in a way created out of Western and specifically Continental European guilt over the holocaust. Unfortunately the Western powers decided to expiate their feelings of guilt by giving somebody elses (who were entirely innocent with regard to the holocaust) land as a form of compensation. The rest is history :roll: It's a complete sh1t sandwich.


Yes Arabs had nothing with Holocaust, but great mufti of Jerusalem was close to Hitler, they even met.

[Mr.K]

Hello from Croatia.

I am watching the reactions of croatian media on situation in Gaza and the reactions of people on forums. The same thing happened 2 years before during war with Hezzbollah. c


When israeli rockets hit arab houses and Arabs that makes headlines...Pictures of dead arab children are everywhere...But when israeli civilians and israeli houses are victimized that will not make headlines.

Well for starters, i think there are more muslims than jews in Croatia, so you can guess which group voices its opinion louder.
Second the mediatic impact of a lone home made quassam that hit an empty house is much smaller than the whole israeli armada pounding gaza for 20 days.



I was in Abhazia this year, shortly before Georgian-Ossetian -Russian war. No one in Croatia has ever heard of Abkhazia and its conflict with Georgia. On croatian forums nobody complained and mourned dead ossetian or dead georgian people.

Why should they?


Croatian media also rarely report about actions of chechen rebels and the destabilized situation in Ingushetia and Dagestan. p-)

But every time Israel makes a move toward military solution that is on the headline, bunch of leftist and islamist commentaries are left on TV and Internet.
Guess which actions are easier to report about, 3 bearded men who shot at a Ural truck at 11pm on some lone narrow road in the middle of nowhere, or a clearly identified military organisation who puts quite a spectacular show.



No one cared when Turkey entered northern Iraq to fight Qurds. When clashes between Hamas and Fatah left 300 dead no one complained.:cantbeli:

What do you think about that?

I guess its the jews that give that extra spark to conflicts.rofl

By the way whenever Russia has a military solution "the media" also complains about evil communist neo-soviet drunken russian hordes who want to enslave feedomloving people.
As for news about dead russians that you seem to crave, they are regulary posted here for your enjoyment.


Anti-Seminitism in the media is now socially acceptable. With liberals taking power the world over, anti-semitism is the scapegoat for the worlds ills and liberal policies will solve them. First, the "Jewish Problem" must be taken care of.

Ah yes, ze antisimites, EVERYWHERE! Move to the moon or something, there is no oxygen there, therefore no antisemites.
On a more serious note, tell me when antisemtism in the media was unacceptable, and why do you think it became acceptable.

[kamaz]

if this was simply about land, about Jews taking over Arab land, then why dont we see similar fascination with places like Kosovo (where Albanians took over Serb land) or Cyprus (where Turks took over Greek Cypriot land)?

how many UN resolutions and worldwide rallies and cries of genocide were uttered when Arab Sudan wiped out Darfurian black tribes? Its still happening today. How many mass condemnations and conferences and speeches and all the 'outrage' by the Left have you seen? I've seen 1 small rally. That is it. Over a million Darfurians wiped out by Muslim gangs, and you hear zip. nothing.


no matter how you slice it, Israel is treated differently by the world, its judged by a different set of standards.

There is no 'refugee' group on earth, that has remained in refugee status for over 50 years, except for the palestinians. They are used as pawns by arab states and by local dictators who always need a bogey man to deflect public attention onto.

[Kaplanr]

I said it in an earlier post. The last time in 20 years that Israel was viewed sympathetically or at least on an even keel (IMHO) was during the Gulf War I (SCUDS) and after Rabin's assasination. Before that it may have been just after Munich and of course just before the 6 Day War. In other words, when Israel looks to be on the ropes. Entebbe had a wow factor, but even that was temporal as the UN then moved to condemn the action as an unwarranted attack on Uganda.

a_very_ex_STAB: Keep in mind that the Zionist movement and Jewish return to the land was happening well before 1900, when the Turks ruled. The dynamic was already in place by WWI.

[The Dane]

Anti-Seminitism in the media is now socially acceptable. With liberals taking power the world over, anti-semitism is the scapegoat for the worlds ills and liberal policies will solve them. First, the "Jewish Problem" must be taken care of.

Seroxat for you, please ..

[dubrava]

Well for starters, i think there are more muslims than jews in Croatia, so you can guess which group voices its opinion louder.
Second the mediatic impact of a lone home made quassam that hit an empty house is much smaller than the whole israeli armada pounding gaza for 20 days.


Why should they?

Guess which actions are easier to report about, 3 bearded men who shot at a Ural truck at 11pm on some lone narrow road in the middle of nowhere, or a clearly identified military organisation who puts quite a spectacular show.



I guess its the jews that give that extra spark to conflicts.rofl

By the way whenever Russia has a military solution "the media" also complains about evil communist neo-soviet drunken russian hordes who want to enslave feedomloving people.
As for news about dead russians that you seem to crave, they are regulary posted here for your enjoyment.



Ah yes, ze antisimites, EVERYWHERE! Move to the moon or something, there is no oxygen there, therefore no antisemites.
On a more serious note, tell me when antisemtism in the media was unacceptable, and why do you think it became acceptable.


Well dear russian boy ossetian and georgian civilian casualties are no less people than Palestinians....

but no one cries about them

no one cries about people in Darfur...p-)

[Parx400]

this is a feasable explanation only if you choose to ignore the very real 5000+ year Jewish connection to their homeland, following the war against Rome in 70AD, as recorded by Josephus.

there are many elements at play here, not just europeans 'giving' the land to the jews. This is grossly inaccurate and incomplete statement.


Very true. There are plenty of things in the Jewish faith that came about after 70AD that are about remebering they are not back home yet. Its not like they said after ww2 " ya i guess we will take that one". The arabs will lie and say none of that history is true. SInce Islam was not even started untill 600AD, I would say the jews have a much longer connection with the land.

[kamaz]

Very true. There are plenty of things in the Jewish faith that came about after 70AD that are about remebering they are not back home yet. Its not like they said after ww2 " ya i guess we will take that one". The arabs will lie and say none of that history is true. SInce Islam was not even started untill 600AD, I would say the jews have a much longer connection with the land.

who has more 'connection' with the land is irrelevant. I'm sure an Arab man born to his fathers family in Haifa but who now lives in Ramaallah under the corrupt government of Abbas also feels 'connection'. Before 1948 it was Jordanian and Egyptian land, before that it was Turkish, before that it was Christian land. Before that Saladin's, before that Christian, before that Roman, before that Greek, before that Jewish, before that Assyrian, etc etc etc.

but so what? What matters now is who lives where, and what should the 2 sides do as of current circumstances. Everyone and their mother has grievances over land, every nation, every tribe, everyone has past grievances over loss of land.

The only solution is 2 separate countries, 1 israel, 1 palestine. The problem is people like Hamas refuse this and still want complete annihilation of jews in that area. Thats the #1 problem and until this is solved, all talk of 'peace' is futile.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

this is a feasable explanation only if you choose to ignore the very real 5000+ year Jewish connection to their homeland, following the war against Rome in 70AD, as recorded by Josephus.

there are many elements at play here, not just europeans 'giving' the land to the jews. This is grossly inaccurate and incomplete statement.

A big so what to that one! Ancient fairy stories followed by people who believe in imaginary friends do not provide a rational basis for statehood in the 20th or 21st century. The fact is that allowing the creation of Israel made an already unstable region even worse - a process which is still continuing and not likely to get better in the foreseeable future.
20:20 hindsight mode off :)

[Lazy Lob]

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8838/orangejewsvd7.jpg

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Yes Arabs had nothing with Holocaust, but great mufti of Jerusalem was close to Hitler, they even met.

This one always seems to get trotted out as a justification for stealing the Palestinians land post-Holocaust.

It's hard to see how this mufti could have put any plans into progress even if he really wanted to. So he met Hitler -big deal. How would he have even got back into Palestine (under British occupation) from Nazi occupied Europe when we were at war with the Nazis. And as the Nazis never crossed the Suez canal to get into the Levant there was no possibility that he could have cooperated with them anyway.

[kamaz]

A big so what to that one! Ancient fairy stories followed by people who believe in imaginary friends do not provide a rational basis for statehood in the 20th or 21st century. The fact is that allowing the creation of Israel made an already unstable region even whose - a process which is still continuing and not likely to get better in the foreseeable future.
20:20 hindsight mode off :)

#1 the jewish presence in that land is not 'fairy tale' its a fact. Ive been there and saw the artifacts and the history of judean kingdom for myself. I've climbed Herod's fortress of Masada, you cant tell me its fairy tales.

#2, as for the religious point, it maybe fairy tale invisible man to you and me, but not for millions of people there. This is what drives so much of the conflict. Both jews and muslims worship there, muslims think muhammad rode his horse to heaven from that spot. What can you say to people that believe in such nonsense? Jews believe in equally stupid theories too.

but its a fact of life, and a big part of the conflict.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

a_very_ex_STAB: Keep in mind that the Zionist movement and Jewish return to the land was happening well before 1900, when the Turks ruled. The dynamic was already in place by WWI.

Yes but IIRC during that pre WW2 period Jews were migrating from Europe to Palestine in relatively manageable numbers and legally buying land. Yes there were conflicts like in Hebron but it wasn't an invasion and wholesale landgrab.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Very true. There are plenty of things in the Jewish faith that came about after 70AD that are about remebering they are not back home yet. Its not like they said after ww2 " ya i guess we will take that one". The arabs will lie and say none of that history is true. SInce Islam was not even started untill 600AD, I would say the jews have a much longer connection with the land.

The only problem with that is that pre-Islamic Arabs also lived in the region at the same time as the Jews. You seem to think that Arabs mysteriously sprung up from nowhere at the same time as Islam!!!

[Flagg]

Anti-Seminitism in the media is now socially acceptable. With liberals taking power the world over, anti-semitism is the scapegoat for the worlds ills and liberal policies will solve them. First, the "Jewish Problem" must be taken care of.

While I accept that Anti-Semitism clearly exists.......it is effectively countered, in the nations that currently matter, by the massive "Capital H" Holocaust Inc. marketing machine.

the media is a tool used effectively for AND against Israel, but use of the Holocaust as a tool in Israel's various conflicts is like a combination H bomb/Monopoly "get out of jail free card"...no pun intended.

[kamaz]

The only problem with that is that pre-Islamic Arabs also lived in the region at the same time as the Jews. You seem to think that Arabs mysteriously sprung up from nowhere at the same time as Islam!!!

pre Islamic Arabs did not live in the mediterranean basin before the muslim conquests of 620-680 AD. They migrated west as part of the conquests, out of Arabia and into Levant and N Africa, and into Spain.

N Africa for example was mostly Berbers and local non arab tribes, including remnants of Carthaginians (phoenicians). They werent Arab. Arabs are relative new comers to the region, if you look at the long span of history.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

pre Islamic Arabs did not live in the mediterranean basin before the muslim conquests of 620-680 AD. They migrated west as part of the conquests, out of Arabia and into Levant and N Africa, and into Spain.

N Africa for example was mostly Berbers and local non arab tribes, including remnants of Carthaginians (phoenicians). They werent Arab. Arabs are relative new comers to the region, if you look at the long span of history.

Oh really. Herod was an Arab wasn't he?

[ggk]

Oh really. Herod was an Arab wasn't he?

you beat me to it

[kamaz]

Oh really. Herod was an Arab wasn't he?

he wasnt actually Arab. His father Antipater was from the Idumean tribe, a semitic tribe that was close in lineage to the hebrews. When Im saying 'Arab', I mean as in part of the tribes coming out of Arabian peninsula.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_the_Idumaean

Antipater was married to Cypros, a Nabataean noblewoman. They had four sons: Phasael, Herod, Joseph, and Pheroras, and a daughter, Salome, one of several Salomes among the Herodians. Antipater was a wealthy man, and was favored by his fellow Idumeans. Josephus – from whom the details of Judean politics in this period are derived – described him as seditious in his nature.

His genealogy was more a matter of public relations than confirmed history: although a spurious identification lists Antipater as descending from the Jewish remnant that returned from the Babylonian Captivity, it is more likely he was an Edomite. The Idumeans had been forcibly converted to Judaism under the Hasmoneans, so both Antipater and Herod the Great were of the Jewish faith, but were resented by the observant and nationalist Jews of Judea for their Edomite ancestry, their Hellenized culture, and their collusion with the Roman invaders.

[Try&die]

if this was simply about land, about Jews taking over Arab land, then why dont we see similar fascination with places like Kosovo (where Albanians took over Serb land) or Cyprus (where Turks took over Greek Cypriot land)?

how many UN resolutions and worldwide rallies and cries of genocide were uttered when Arab Sudan wiped out Darfurian black tribes? Its still happening today. How many mass condemnations and conferences and speeches and all the 'outrage' by the Left have you seen? I've seen 1 small rally. That is it. Over a million Darfurians wiped out by Muslim gangs, and you hear zip. nothing.


no matter how you slice it, Israel is treated differently by the world, its judged by a different set of standards.

There is no 'refugee' group on earth, that has remained in refugee status for over 50 years, except for the palestinians. They are used as pawns by arab states and by local dictators who always need a bogey man to deflect public attention onto.

This my friend is very wrong. Turkey didn't 'took over' a part of cyprus. After the wars Turkey , Greece and the UK made a treaty ( London treaty ) which includes: Every country of this 3 can intervent when Greek-cypriotic or Turk-cypriotic people is in danger. At the time there was a terrorist group in Cyprus who wanted a Enonis ( anschluss, be a part of Greece ) with Greece and they started slaughter Turk-cypriotic. So Turkey had to make this move and had to protect their people and they did. So far Turkey is not of a opinion that is save enough to leave the island. This is the story in short. So it's not that: Turkey just took over Cyprus as you mention.

But I don't want to start a whole other subject in this thread. So take it as a history lesson and go on in this thread:)

[a_very_ex_STAB]

he wasnt actually Arab. His father Antipater was from the Idumean tribe, a semitic tribe that was close in lineage to the hebrews. When Im saying 'Arab', I mean as in part of the tribes coming out of Arabian peninsula.

So we can agree that 'non-Jewish semites' also lived in the region at the same time as the Jews. It would appear to be reasonable to believe that such people were as likely to be the ancestors of current Palestinians as ancient Jews were in relation to present day Jews.

[Mr.K]

An Israel vs Palestine , Turkey vs Greece, Russia vs Georgia , balkan thread all in one :) Great job everyone !

[a_very_ex_STAB]

An Israel vs Palestine , Turkey vs Greece, Russia vs Georgia , balkan thread all in one :) Great job everyone !

LOL and so far it hasn't degenerated into juvenile insults (unless I missed a post) :)

[kamaz]

So we can agree that 'non-Jewish semites' also lived in the region at the same time as the Jews. It would appear to be reasonable to believe that such people were as likely to be the ancestors of current Palestinians as ancient Jews were in relation to present day Jews.

yes this is true obviously. that region has been conquered and over ran more times than A-stan. I think if someone did a DNA study of local geneology theyd find a mix of greek, phoenician, persian, arabic, hebraic and latin fusion.

[kamaz]

An Israel vs Palestine , Turkey vs Greece, Russia vs Georgia , balkan thread all in one :) Great job everyone !

with freshly squeezed orange jews!

[Moledet]

As far as I see it, we are seen by the Europeans as the people that blame them for the Holocaust, Inquisition and pogroms, they want to show to themselves and to us that we are "as bad" (not even close) that's the reason the conflict is so popular in the media. People want to watch it so that they can say "look at the 'genocide' the Jews are doing, just like we did but today we are better than them".

As for the Muslims, for them it's just a thing of honor. They see the Israeli success story as a reflection of their shortcomings.

[4X4Driver]

No one cared when Turkey entered northern Iraq to fight Qurds. When clashes between Hamas and Fatah left 300 dead no one complained.:cantbeli:

What do you think about that?

Just because you're ignorant of the events (by beeing too obsessed with only yourself) doesn't mean it didn't happened. We could stay barely a week there due to the pressure from the EU and the US...in your case, they give an open support for your actions.

[SniperLane]

First, the "Jewish Problem" must be taken care of.

Mr. Hitler, I think this call is for you...

[Ulytau]

Yes but IIRC during that pre WW2 period Jews were migrating from Europe to Palestine in relatively manageable numbers and legally buying land. Yes there were conflicts like in Hebron but it wasn't an invasion and wholesale landgrab.

Theodor Herzl


“In Basel I founded the Jewish state . . . Maybe in five years, certainly in fifty, everyone will realize it.”


After World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I), the League of Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations) approved the British Mandate of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine) with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people."[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#cite_note-7) In 1947, the United Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations) approved the partition of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Palestine) into two states, one Jewish and one Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#cite_note-8) On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel declared independence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_%28Israel%29)From Wikipedia

Interestin thing this quote totally right 50 years later Israel State founded

[RoyB]

What a bunch of crap.
Its not like the juice just pointed their finger on the map, and all of a sudden they got a country there.
The Jews connection to Israel is undisputed.

[Ordie]

Why are people so obssessed with Israel?

IDF Women Soldiers

[gil1982]

i think there are many reasons.
some of them that comes to mined right now can be antisemitic, larger numbers of Muslim immigrates in European countries, very very poor Israeli propaganda or explanations giving for taken actions.

i have a swedes friend how asked me why are we bombing Gaza and killing kids. when i started to explain about hamas she said "who?", when i told her about qassam rockets she said "what?? i didn't know about it...".
the point is that its very easy to see a 45 million jet bombing a caviling house, getting pisst off and not to think about the reason why, especially when you don't know the back story.

and for the rest of the middle east, i think that the hatred and anger are so deep and real that it will always stay like this. i had a talk with an Egyptian guy, 20 years old over the Internet. he told me that Israel is a fake country and that one day he hope to kill us all... don't get me wrong, there are people in Israel that think the same about Muslims but they are a minority.

[Try&die]

IDF Women Soldiers


What can I say, +1.

[Mr.K]

i think there are many reasons.
some of them that comes to mined right now can be antisemitic, larger numbers of Muslim immigrates in European countries, very very poor Israeli propaganda or explanations giving for taken actions.

i have a swedes friend how asked me why are we bombing Gaza and killing kids. when i started to explain about hamas she said "who?", when i told her about qassam rockets she said "what?? i didn't know about it...".
the point is that its very easy to see a 45 million jet bombing a caviling house, getting pisst off and not to think about the reason why, especially when you don't know the back story.

and for the rest of the middle east, i think that the hatred and anger are so deep and real that it will always stay like this. i had a talk with an Egyptian guy, 20 years old over the Internet. he told me that Israel is a fake country and that one day he hope to kill us all... don't get me wrong, there are people in Israel that think the same about Muslims but they are a minority.

What an idiot, ok you'll kill everyone, and then what, 3 day celebration with ak-47 firing in the air, then get back to your ****ty way of life.
But i agree, you can't take it seriously for many factors: 20 year old, male , over the internet. :)

[~Berdan]

The only problem with that is that pre-Islamic Arabs also lived in the region at the same time as the Jews. You seem to think that Arabs mysteriously sprung up from nowhere at the same time as Islam!!!

Well,allow me mister STAB to post childish flame you was so hoping for.Seeing you in a lot of threads concerning Israel,you have an arrogant manner of debating things.Yes,I understand that this subject doesn't concern or interest you much,but since you took the time and trouble to post your ramblings,for fukk sakes,please make it at list right.


Now,for example,it seems you buy your history books from bazaar.Seems troubling that a person who take his time to write a response over mp.net,can't open new bar and search for google for another 15 seconds.Is that really hard mr. very ex whatever?


Plus,it puzzles me that you somehow have the nerve to talk in such arrogant manner "You seem to think that....bla bla bla".Well,shyte Sherlock,guess what??

No,no

The only problem with that is that pre-Islamic Arabs also lived in the region at the same time as the Jews

I'm sorry to inform you mr. Geography,but Arab gulf is a bit far from what was then Cenaan,and even the Nabateans came as close as to what is Jordan today.And no,mr. History,very little Arabs came to live in Cenaan,Juda and Israel,Palestine,until the 7th century,when Calif Omar conquered the region.

And

You seem to think that Arabs mysteriously sprung up from nowhere at the same time as Islam!!!

You seem to think that you know what you're talking about,mate.Ah,yes.!!!!!!!! doesn't make your point any more correct.!!!!!

And,this is nice.

Oh really. Herod was an Arab wasn't he?

Yes,really!!Herod was an Arab,that is priceless!Any more jewels?

You see,maty,if you use your memory out of the curves of your ass,at list don't patronize over people,mr. Orilly.I don't have a problem with people talking out of their asses(it's their own problem),but it pisses the shyte out of me when they do it in arrogant and patronizing manner.Take that to your notice.



Screw that,I'm off to drink beer :).

[Bia]

Hello from Croatia.
Why are so many people obsessed with Israel?

If it makes you feel better... I couldnt care any less about em.

humans
:P

[~Berdan]

If it makes you feel better... I couldnt care any less about em.

humans
:P

Are you coming to drink beer with me :) ?

[Anomander]

Well i think that media is very much israel-friendly. As soon as you say anything negative about Israel you get stamped as an anti-semite. And this bull**** that Israel got some eternal right to palestine annoys me. Israel came into existance 1948, anything else is just bull****.

Note, i don't mind Israel as such. But the notion that Israel is somehow innocent to the current violence in Palestine is just ridiculous.

[kamaz]

Israel came into existance 1948, anything else is just bull****.


lol, ok, dont let history or facts get in your way.

israel and jews appeared there in 1948, poof! magic. no prior history, no nothing.

[Anomander]

lol, ok, dont let history or facts get in your way.

israel and jews appeared there in 1948, poof! magic. no prior history, no nothing.


Jews in palestine have been around a long time, the state of Israel haven't. Your point is?

[gil1982]

Well i think that media is very much israel-friendly. As soon as you say anything negative about Israel you get stamped as an anti-semite. And this bull**** that Israel got some eternal right to palestine annoys me. Israel came into existance 1948, anything else is just bull****.

Note, i don't mind Israel as such. But the notion that Israel is somehow innocent to the current violence in Palestine is just ridiculous.


depend which channel: BBC, aljazira and other are very mach pro-palestinian or even anti-israeli. aljazira especially, they try to cover it up with Oxford english but its there.
isreal\palestine was divided by the UN in 1948, the Palestinians didn't agreed with that plan. form their (or most of them) point of view all of what is now Israel is "Palestine". i live in a town that was bullied in 1922 and the land was legally purchased from the owner. is that also a part of Palestine?

but you are right about one thing - both side are to blame with the violence.

[~Berdan]

Well i think that media is very much israel-friendly. As soon as you say anything negative about Israel you get stamped as an anti-semite. And this bull**** that Israel got some eternal right to palestine annoys me. Israel came into existance 1948, anything else is just bull****.

Note, i don't mind Israel as such. But the notion that Israel is somehow innocent to the current violence in Palestine is just ridiculous.

I don't think anyone says Israel is full of angels without wings.Not even Israelis(at list wast majority).Yes,mistakes were made over the course of time,no one can deny.

But saying media is Israeli friendly is a grieve mistake,you don't live here,you don't know what it looks like.Talking to my relatives who live abroad,they almost brand me as a war criminal just because I live here,guilty by proxy :).They get castrated version of facts(there is no thing as objective truth,just cold facts are objective),and fed with the "truth" that suits the TV stations.

Acknowledging you are wrong is one thing,but getting bombarded by media for every fart that someone in Israel makes can be very frustrating,and can lead people to an opposite direction.Getting constantly told that your country is the last stronghold of evil by different networks,while getting screen time way way way way more than it should(for a country of 6 million people,the size of New York,Israel somehow gets a lot of screen time) can be very frustrating,and even when people do want to acknowledge they are wrong,try to correct it and move on,they actually driven to engage their defend mechanism,and exaggerate to the other side of the spectrum.



(being able to understand 5 languages,and having about 500 channels over the satellite,I can allow myself to tell that there is no news station that even gets close to being objective on Israeli manner.Or give it proportional screen time to it's importance around the globe).


So,please,let me get out so I can drink that beer allready :lol:.

[RoyB]

Jews in palestine have been around a long time, the state of Israel haven't. Your point is?
Neither does the 'state of Palestine'.

[Kaplanr]

Yes but IIRC during that pre WW2 period Jews were migrating from Europe to Palestine in relatively manageable numbers and legally buying land. Yes there were conflicts like in Hebron but it wasn't an invasion and wholesale landgrab.

No, Hebron was just a massacre of a community that had been there since before Shakespeare put pen to paper. As to the provenance of the "Palestinian" population; how much of it migrated to Ottoman Palestine in the last 100 years of Turkish rule?

What I'm reading here is that the Israelis made a grave mistake by not driving all the Arabs out in 1948. It seems that you're all willing to excuse pre-1948 ethnioc cleansing by others as the price of doing business with history.

[California Joe]

Please stop with the historical claims to land. Nobody cares. Otherwise some Iroquois is going to come and take my house.

Fact is, after that "liberal" Hitler (according to WarRetard) tried to kill all of you they dumped you there based on Old Testament referrences and basic archaeology. Big surprise, it pissed off the neighbors.

The fact that you keep beating them up when they attack you is at odds with your past claims to victimization and it confuses people.

[themacedonian]

Please stop with the historical claims to land. Nobody cares. Otherwise some Iroquois is going to come and take my house.

Fact is, after that "liberal" Hitler (according to WarRetard) tried to kill all of you they dumped you there based on Old Testament referrences and basic archaeology. Big surprise, it pissed off the neighbors.

The fact that you keep beating them up when they attack you is at odds with your past claims to victimization and it confuses people.

very true.

It is quite common an abused victim become an abuser him self. The Israelies have done their abusing and justified it with their own passed suffering.

The moment some one says anything the "anti-semitic card" is played. Now Arabs and Jews are semitic people so no one is being anti-semitic as you can not be against both at the same time.

This is interesting:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlement

Basically their own papers and studies know that Palestinian land is stolen with settlements and the action enforced with military might when good people become extremists.

People or media is obsessed with Israel as it seems to be the only country in the UN that is outside the rule of law.

[RoyB]

very true.

It is quite common an abused victim become an abuser him self. The Israelies have done their abusing and justified it with their own passed suffering.

The moment some one says anything the "anti-semitic card" is played. Now Arabs and Jews are semitic people so no one is being anti-semitic as you can not be against both at the same time.
I'm not sure that what he meant, but whatever..

People or media is obsessed with Israel as it seems to be the only country in the UN that is outside the rule of law.I can name a lot of UN countries that are outside the rule of law..

[Anomander]

I don't think anyone says Israel is full of angels without wings.Not even Israelis(at list wast majority).Yes,mistakes were made over the course of time,no one can deny.

But saying media is Israeli friendly is a grieve mistake,you don't live here,you don't know what it looks like.Talking to my relatives who live abroad,they almost brand me as a war criminal just because I live here,guilty by proxy :).They get castrated version of facts(there is no thing as objective truth,just cold facts are objective),and fed with the "truth" that suits the TV stations.

Acknowledging you are wrong is one thing,but getting bombarded by media for every fart that someone in Israel makes can be very frustrating,and can lead people to an opposite direction.Getting constantly told that your country is the last stronghold of evil by different networks,while getting screen time way way way way more than it should(for a country of 6 million people,the size of New York,Israel somehow gets a lot of screen time) can be very frustrating,and even when people do want to acknowledge they are wrong,try to correct it and move on,they actually driven to engage their defend mechanism,and exaggerate to the other side of the spectrum.



(being able to understand 5 languages,and having about 500 channels over the satellite,I can allow myself to tell that there is no news station that even gets close to being objective on Israeli manner.Or give it proportional screen time to it's importance around the globe).


So,please,let me get out so I can drink that beer allready :lol:.

Thanks for the input. I admit that i have never been to Israel, but i think its the country in the middle-east that offers the best individual freedom. (I don't think democrazy is the best :)) Anyway, i read a book(Maat ja kansat) printed in 1931. It states that the religious demografy in the british protectorate(in 1930 was) aproximatly 90.000 jews, 160.000 christians and 320.000 muslims. Today the population is (according to wiki)5,4 million jews, 1,15 million muslims, and 120.000 christians. + about 3,5 million muslims and others in Gaza and the West bank.

The point i'd like to make is that Palestinians(israeli muslims) have quaite a point when they are are opposed to the Israeli state. Since its formed after a massive immigration betveen 1919 and 1948. A comparison could be made to Kosovo. Anyway, i don't have anything against Israel. But i'm not in any way surprised, or opposed to the fact that that arabs oppose it very much, for obvious reasons that seems to be ignored by todays press .

[California Joe]

For the record. I did not just call Israel a battered wife that sets fire to her drunk Arab boyfriend like Macedonian seems to think. :|

[4X4Driver]

very true.

It is quite common an abused victim become an abuser him self. The Israelies have done their abusing and justified it with their own passed suffering.

The moment some one says anything the "anti-semitic card" is played. Now Arabs and Jews are semitic people so no one is being anti-semitic as you can not be against both at the same time.

This is interesting:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlement

Basically their own papers and studies know that Palestinian land is stolen with settlements and the action enforced with military might when good people become extremists.

People or media is obsessed with Israel as it seems to be the only country in the UN that is outside the rule of law.

Well said mate.

[ed316]

Hate the game and not the player.

[Snoshi]

Well said mate.

Well said in what way? All he said is the same baseless crap that other anti-Zionists have been spewing for ages..

[California Joe]

He meant that you'd never see the Turks being mean to their neighbors like you evil Juice.

[4X4Driver]

Things he said sounded pretty reasonable to me..what's wrong with that? Are you about to prove him by accusing me for being anti-semit?

[4X4Driver]

He meant that you'd never see the Turks being mean to their neighbors like you evil Juice.

Oh no..no way. Such a warrior nation like Turkey can never claim something like that..:)

[themacedonian]

Well said in what way? All he said is the same baseless crap that other anti-Zionists have been spewing for ages..

if washington times or le monde said palestinian land is illegally taken for settlements then those would be called anti-zionist, anti-semitic. I am pointing to an article from Haaretz.

[Zeev]

People are obssessed with israel because they have shyty and boring lives.

Juice is like alcohol, when you're focus on, you forget all the other bad things arround you, even sometime your own problems.

[4X4Driver]

People are obssessed with israel because they have shyty and boring lives.

Juice is like alcohol, when you're focus on, you forget all the other bad things arround you, even sometime your own problems.

Then it's a good thing alcohol is prohibidet for us muslims...:)

[Hollis]

Then it's a good thing alcohol is prohibidet for us muslims...:)



LOLOL, Yeah sure. :)

[ed316]

Then it's a good thing alcohol is prohibidet for us muslims...:)


Doesn't stop y'all from getting drunk. This no alcohol is a crock of shyt.

[Elemental666]

Israelis are too obsessed with people that are obsessed with Israel. Makes sense?

Who the hell cares what the average Turk/Greek/Guatemalan thinks? In the end of the day, they will burn some flags, shout "baby killers" into the air, and go home, while we'll have to deal with Hamas and friends.

Obviously we're not gonna beat the Palestinians in PR, because nothing sells the story more than picture of dead kids, right? And that's the simple truth. We're NEVER going to be able make people look at this conflict a little beyond their emotions. So why even bother?

I just wish the hypocrites that scream "GENOCIDE" the loudest actually had any solutions to suggest for us.

[4X4Driver]

Doesn't stop y'all from getting drunk. This no alcohol is a crock of shyt.

I was hoping you'd catch my drift like Hollis did...:)

[IDF_TANKER]

That's like the 100th thread where we discuss this.


It's very easy to blame all the Israel misrepresentation problems on antisemitism. The authors perhaps are right about all the facts regarding media bias, one-sided support of Palestinians etc., but I'm not sure the reasons are so simple. We had a similar discussion once here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2526335), where I posted my thoughts why Israel draws so much [negative] attention:

But lets cut the flames and return to the topic. There are a few objective reasons why Israel is treated differently(in both good and bad ways):

First, this is something Thomas Friedman calls a "super-story". The super-story is the historical-biblical prism through which everything that happens in Israel is perceived in the world. Every even slightly important event has a special significance in the eyes of Christians/Jews/Muslims. Even in the modern western society this super-story is what makes the Israel story so fascinating.

Second, the occupation. We are democratic, western country and we are occupying(whatever the reasons are) a territory populated by other people. There maybe a holocaust is going on in Darfour, there maybe whole tribes are being extinct in Africa because of hunger, there are maybe a thousand other places on this planet where much more horrible things are taking places but we are those who get all the attention. Why? Because we are part of the western civilization, we are being judged according to the different standards. It is true that every wounded(by Israelis) Palestinian would make a headline, but for the same reason every single Israeli wounded (in a terrorist attack) will also make it to the headlines.

I bet the white South Africans of the Apartheid period were wandering too, how is that they getting so much attention, when there were a lot of much more "interesting" places around the world. The reason is the same - they are, as we are, part of the family.

Third, the guilt. The existence of the Israel is always connected to the Holocaust. Israel is constant (somewhat annoying) reminder of something which makes Europeans to feel very bad about their not so distant past. In the modern godless secular West, Holocaust became a new reference point of the moral system, it defined for new postwar generations what is bad and what is good.

But as we all know, for every action there is a reaction. The reaction for the guilt is to make Israel something which is not worth to feel guilty about. To put it bluntly, this is the world's way of saying to us "Hey you are blaming us in what we did to you, but look at yourself -you are not better than us!".

Fourth, our geopolitical, military and economical importance. Without being too arrogant, we simply became too powerful and successful to be ignored. Not to mention the geopolitical role we play in Middle East. In a nutshell, everything that happens in Israel affect greatly not only the region, but also the world politics and economy.

And finally the last reason - is the old good anti-Semitism. I intentionally put as the last reason, for I believe this is the least significant one. Nevertheless, it is always there. In one form or another this is one of the reasons "why Israel treated differently".

My two cents.

Feel free to disagree. Lets hope, that from now on, the debate will take a more constructive course.:-)The second and the third reason in the above post, I believe, are the dominating. I'm not naive though, I do believe, that for some people antisemitism is their primary motivation behind "criticism" of Israeli, but somehow I have trouble to believe this is the main one for most of the people.

The Israelis on this thread are also quick to forget that Israel was (before the occupation became the dominant part of Israeli narrative in the western world) for all the "socialist" European countries the embodiment of their ideals and hordes of the "antisemitic socialism-indoctrinated" Swedes were volunteering in the Israeli kibbutzes and coming simply as tourists(actually have been right until the last intifada).

You also forget that the almost impossible tolerance, that all these countries exhibit towards immigrants from all parts of world, which is also hardly an evidence of some kind of inherent racism in these countries.

We look at people which singling out Israel and we immediately assume racism, because it the most obvious and history-proven reason. Well, I think, things are just a little bit more complicated...

My two cents.


With enough time on this forum I will be able participate in discussions solely posting quotes from other threads.

[3rdMillhouse]

Soviet propaganda has spread in such a succesfull way during the cold war, that their anti-semitism can now be found everywhere. In a fashion, you could say the soviets won, as least in propaganda.

[Mr.K]

Please stop with the historical claims to land. Nobody cares. Otherwise some Iroquois is going to come and take my house.

Fact is, after that "liberal" Hitler (according to WarRetard) tried to kill all of you they dumped you there based on Old Testament referrences and basic archaeology. Big surprise, it pissed off the neighbors.

The fact that you keep beating them up when they attack you is at odds with your past claims to victimization and it confuses people.

He liked arts and other gay liberal stuff!


Soviet propaganda has spread in such a succesfull way during the cold war, that their anti-semitism can now be found everywhere. In a fashion, you could say the soviets won, as least in propaganda.

Ah yes, the evil soviet jews that invented communism invented anti-semitism aswell. Brilliant!

[Elemental666]

With enough time on this forum I will be able participate in discussions solely posting quotes from other threads.



Go to hell with your long, complicated and sophisticated posts.

[3rdMillhouse]

Ah yes, the evil soviet jews that invented communism invented anti-semitism aswell. Brilliant!

Anti-semitism became a part of leftist ideologies ever since US started supporting Israel, and I'll explain you why. With massive US support towards Israel, it became clear for URSS that supporting the interests of (hostile towards Israel) arab countries would be the only way to counter US political influence in the ME. There, is it clear enough or do you want me to draw it for you?

[Mr.Flint]

There was a Tamil demo in downtown TO today.
50 thousand people... No peaceniks, hippies, palis, commies, unions etc. were present.
No calls for any boycotts, divestment, or anything.
No demands for Sri Lankan academics to condemn military or operations or face a ban...
etc.


One have to wonder why.....

[Hollis]

Ah yes, the evil soviet jews that invented communism invented anti-semitism aswell. Brilliant!


In a way, Yeah. Part of the cold war alliances. There were two sides, The West Side and then the East side. There where the nonaligned nations that played both sides for more money.


Israel fell into the pro-west side,

A number of the Arab countries fell into the pro-east side.

It is old alliances from the cold war that are still hanging on. I guess people just want to stay in the 70's.

[Kaplanr]

Please stop with the historical claims to land. Nobody cares. Otherwise some Iroquois is going to come and take my house.

Fact is, after that "liberal" Hitler (according to WarRetard) tried to kill all of you they dumped you there based on Old Testament referrences and basic archaeology. Big surprise, it pissed off the neighbors.

The fact that you keep beating them up when they attack you is at odds with your past claims to victimization and it confuses people.

We're 1948. We'll take a number behind you, the Canuckians and the Aussies. Wake me when the problem's solved. ;)

[Gentius]

if this was simply about land, about Jews taking over Arab land, then why dont we see similar fascination with places like Kosovo (where Albanians took over Serb land) or Cyprus (where Turks took over Greek Cypriot land)?

I dont want to ruin this thread, but be careful how you explain history on Kosovo.

[ggk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/XUFLpP9Prxo

George Galloway

[Hollis]

And the purpose for posting Geo. Galloway explain his history of the ME?

[ggk]

we are still talking about historical claims to land right? or are we not?

[Jacobisahottie]

well we are very pro israel in Australia. all newspaper polls support Israeli actions. perhaps because we hate these arabs and lebs comitting too much crime in our otherwise harmonious and perfect society. :(

[Hollis]

we are still talking about historical claims to land right? or are we not?


And your using that moron as a source........... Jee why don't just post from stormfront then.

[Lokos]

well we are very pro israel in Australia.

Is there anyone you're trying to kid in particular, or... ?

A huge number of Australians express a varying degree of distaste for the actions of the Israeli government. I don't, but that's my personal stance, and I speak for myself. Perhaps you should, too.

L.

[junglejim]

IDF Women Soldiers


and Natalie Portman!

[Kilgor]

3000+ now dead in Zimbabwe from disease, I don't see the left giving a sh`t.

[Hollis]

3000+ now dead in Zimbabwe from disease, I don't see the left giving a sh`t.


Darfur, Congo, Zimbabwe............ etc. Something is wrong.

[Kilgor]

Darfur, Congo, Zimbabwe............ etc. Something is wrong.

They are not being killed by Jews or Americans, thats what

[V.I.D.]

I dont want to ruin this thread, but be careful how you explain history on Kosovo.

Why don't you explain it to us since apparently the truth does not suit you enough?

[epictetus]

There goes the thread....

[Kilgor]

yeap, doesn't take long till it gets contaminated with the K word

Oh the injustice !

[Telmar]

3000+ now dead in Zimbabwe from disease, I don't see the left giving a sh`t.

How does the situation in Zimbabwe compares to Hamas rocket attacks and Israeli response?

[Atlantic Friend]

I just wish the hypocrites that scream "GENOCIDE" the loudest actually had any solutions to suggest for us.

Hmm. Haven't solutions been proposed actually - like the creation of an autonomous state for Palestinians along the 1948 proposals ?

[Telmar]

Darfur, Congo, Zimbabwe............ etc. Something is wrong.

It's in the news:

BBC's last article on the situation in Congo (Friday 30th January): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7861892.stm

BBC' latest article on the situation in Darfur (Monday 26th January)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7851886.stm

BBC' latest article on Zimbabwe (Friday 30th January)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7860070.stm

But one of the problems of long term crisises are the duration. Most people get tired of hearing bad news (I include myself in it) and tend to lose focus on it.

The problems in Gaza arise with spectacular images: rockets, sirens, tanks, planes...It is more sensational, as well as much more intense in short periods and very catchy.

[Kilgor]

Of course its in the news, but its hardly international outrage.

[Kaplanr]

Hmm. Haven't solutions been proposed actually - like the creation of an autonomous state for Palestinians along the 1948 proposals ?

You do mean 67 don't you? That would be hard enough today. 48 is DOA, buried and decomposed - the Arab states did it in...in 1948.

[ggk]

And your using that moron as a source........... Jee why don't just post from stormfront then.

i didnt know a lot of people hate him. my bad

[Alfacentori]

Darfur, Congo, Zimbabwe............ etc. Something is wrong.

Spot on

Alfa

[Snoshi]

i didnt know a lot of people hate him. my bad

You dint know it? Have you ever listened to him?

[IDF_TANKER]

i didnt know a lot of people hate him. my bad

"Hate" wouldn't be perhaps a correct term.

He is a perfect example of a demagogue:

dem·a·gogue also dem·a·gog (dhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifmhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif-gôghttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif, -ghttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/obreve.gifghttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif)n.
1. A leader who obtains power by means of impassioned appeals to the emotions and prejudices of the populace.
He is reasonably eloquent and knowledgeable enough to make an impression of the passionate truth speaker, but at the end of the day he will go and shake hands with the worst of mass murderers in the modern history - just because it happens to fit his current political agenda.

http://www.youtube.com/v/IIy_GmvUElE

George Galloway is a typical political whore, a person without any real principles and moral stance, just another opportunist using people's ignorance and prejudices.

[ggk]

You dint know it? Have you ever listened to him?

yeah ive listen to his view about zionism...he sounds like William Wallace.

[ColinP]

People here in Malaysia talkall the time about Gaza, yet the 5 million dead in the Congo draws a complete blank from them.

[Moledet]

It's in the news:

BBC's last article on the situation in Congo (Friday 30th January): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7861892.stm

BBC' latest article on the situation in Darfur (Monday 26th January)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7851886.stm

BBC' latest article on Zimbabwe (Friday 30th January)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7860070.stm

But one of the problems of long term crisises are the duration. Most people get tired of hearing bad news (I include myself in it) and tend to lose focus on it.

The problems in Gaza arise with spectacular images: rockets, sirens, tanks, planes...It is more sensational, as well as much more intense in short periods and very catchy.
It's not the headlines, if you enter the site and wish to read news from Africa and do a little search than you might find it. It's nothing like the news from here that are "Top Story".

[ggk]

People here in Malaysia talkall the time about Gaza, yet the 5 million dead in the Congo draws a complete blank from them.

we sent peacekeeper to congo. ...also theres a few Tv documentary on the suffering and death in Congo by local media. ....and local NGO have set up fund and donation for congo too.... so no 'completely blank' are not accurate.

But i have to admit Congo doesnt get the same attention here than palestine.

[Mr.K]

In a way, Yeah. Part of the cold war alliances. There were two sides, The West Side and then the East side. There where the nonaligned nations that played both sides for more money.


Israel fell into the pro-west side,

A number of the Arab countries fell into the pro-east side.

It is old alliances from the cold war that are still hanging on. I guess people just want to stay in the 70's.

From what i know it was more of an anti-zionist campaign, since zionism is a form of nationalism which is something condemned by the communist ideology. Paradoxally "jew" was considered a nationality in SU which is closer to zionist principles. Stalin supported the creation of a jewish state hoping once the birts leave it will become a socialist country. It was only after Israel fell to the western influence the soviets began talking about Israel in a bad way. The word "jew" was never used in the media. Yes there was "the doctor's plot", the "rootless cosmopolitains" and later on whenever Israel was at war there were "Israeli agressors" Although this campaign was music to soviet antisemites ear's, it would be totally false to say that USSR specifically opressed soviet jews, and its policy was their elimitation.

[Jeancarl]

IDF Women Soldiers

totally agree with you

[ggk]

5....4....3...2....1

[a_very_ex_STAB]

5....4....3...2....1

Ha Ha yeah.

In before the lock!

[Hollis]

From what i know it was more of an anti-zionist campaign, since zionism is a form of nationalism which is something condemned by the communist ideology. Paradoxally "jew" was considered a nationality in SU which is closer to zionist principles. Stalin supported the creation of a jewish state hoping once the birts leave it will become a socialist country. It was only after Israel fell to the western influence the soviets began talking about Israel in a bad way. The word "jew" was never used in the media. Yes there was "the doctor's plot", the "rootless cosmopolitains" and later on whenever Israel was at war there were "Israeli agressors" Although this campaign was music to soviet antisemites ear's, it would be totally false to say that USSR specifically opressed soviet jews, and its policy was their elimitation.


Yes some where near 1950, the SU flipped on this issue. What is kind of funny, is that Israel is more like the Socialist countries of Europe than the US. One would think the US would not have supported a socialist country and the SU would have.

Then comparing Israel to the Arab countries in the region, one would think the left would support Israel. Political Agendas make strange bed fellows.