N. Korea talks of war again.

[FallenAngel]

the article...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/850567.asp?0cv=CB10

one thing i found quite funny....the N.K. papers quoted Rodong Sinmun saying "When the U.S. makes a surprise attack on our peaceful nuclear facilities, it will spark off a total war.”

two things. He said "when"...as if he knows its going to happen for sure. I'm willing to bet it will....but I dunno for sure.

and he called the Nuke plants "peaceful" :D lol

How can a place that produces the most devistating weapons known to man be considered "peaceful" ?

[Vance]

Who gives a crap about the Koreans

[FallenAngel]

...just a guess, but maybe the 35,000 or so US servicemen stationed in S. Korea who would be some of the first to fight.

[Trigger]

...or maybe the Japanese who are well within range of N.Korean weapons. Or Australia, or Guam, or Hawaii, or Alaska. That's gonna be an ugly fight.

[StarvingStudent47]

and he called the Nuke plants "peaceful" lol

How can a place that produces the most devistating weapons known to man be considered "peaceful" ?


Technically speaking, the primary puropse of those plants is to produce energy for the country. I'm not defending Kim's regime, I'm just explaining his statement. Besides, they've already got nukes. If we blow up the reactors, we don't disarm them but we DO incur more suffering on an already-suffering populace. And what do we gain by doing that?

And speaking of panic, I'd like to point out that South Koreans AREN'T panicked. Neither are the Japanese. Actually, the only people in the area taking North Korea seriously is the United States. My philosophy is, if South Korea doesn't think we need or should have a war, who is the United States to tell them otherwise?

For contrast, Turkey and Israel are sweating bullets over Iraq's now-proven NBC weapons program (thanks Colin Powell). That's why it makes sense to go to war with Iraq but not North Korea.

[JiJoMacLE45]

I agree, I'm a staunch supporter of taking out Saddam Hussein using whatever means neccesary. I think North Korea is a much more sensitive situation. You get North Korea, chances are you get China. You get China and you definantly get a nuclear arsenal.

[Vance]

Didnt we sign some Nuclear Arms Treaty saying we cant use nukes during war? Im probably wrong

[Kitsune]

The Koreans have a special mentality. They are a lot different then Japanese and most PR Chinese. Whereas these (especially the Japanese) are very reserved and polite, the Koreans are much more openly emotional. They often try to strike a intimidating pose and use exaggerated phrases and threats. There has been a similar incident some years before. The North Koreans said things that sounded like a veritable declaration of war. In fact, there was a small panic in Washington and Langley. The South Koreans on the other hand did not feel threatened much. The same goes for the posters someone showed here. Its important to analyse the situation and to stay cool when one hears things like this especially from korea (north or south alike).
I'm not saying that North Korea is harmless. Far from it. They are the most indoctrinated and konditioned people on earth. Their state is totally secluded. There is nearly no contact between north and south koreans. Although their infrastructure is fifties vintage their military should not be underestimated.

And their is China. It seems that they like the situation that the north koreans harass and trouble the americans. They have read their Sun Tsu and are trying to weaken the U.S. on a long term bases... the more wars and conflicts America is in... the better for China.

[snake6264]

USA Today had a great picture in today's paper taken over the region at night
South Korea and Japan a wash with lights
Nothing in North Korea and Southern China

Be Safe
Snake6264

[JiJoMacLE45]

See now you and me are on the same side here Kitsune. I agree with you all the way. I do not think the threat from North Korea is so much from them launching an offensive into the South. Not to say that they are not a very capable military presence. And this is just my opinion, let me know what you think, but I think the problem with North Korea is that they might go about selling their WMD capability to whoever wants it. Kim Il Jong(think I got the spelling right) is one of those leaders who lives a luxuries lifestyle while his people exist in poverty. If selling a warhead to Al-Qaeda, Hamas, or the Iraqis for that matter can make him a buck, he seems like the type to do it. Just my opinion though.

[Trigger]

I think the N. Korea situation is very volitile. The cultural 'posturing' may very well be true, but they have a 50 year history of overtly hostile actions against the south and the Japanese. The North is constantly infiltrating large numbers of agents/assassins into the south via mini-subs. This is well documented. So are the tunnels that they keep finding. Tunnels big enough to accommodate tanks. I think it was just a few months ago that they actually admitted to the fact that they kidnapped Japanese citizens in the 60s and 70s and still held them (the ones still alive) for use in training deep cover agents.
I guess my point is that we don't know what it will take to set Kim Jong Il off. Seoul is only 35 miles from the border and the North has thousands of artillery pieces within range of it right now. That place could be burning to the ground before we could do very much. I'm not so sure the South Koreans are just shrugging this off. Some of them still remember the 50s. :|

[Kitsune]

Well... it is certainly possible that they trade with those weapons. (A thing with Kim Jong Il is that nobody seems to know how much power he has. North Korean Propaganda paints him as all powerful ruler but some think he is merely a puppet of the military)

The reason why even such states are careful about giving away such weapons is that

1) Such weapons are precious at least as far as highly potent nerve agents like e.g. VX or (even more so) nuclear devices are concerned.

2) They also fear others using them. Even terrorists. Although some terrorists they fear woul be called freedom fighters. (But those wouldn't perhaps use weapons of mass destruction). But even evil guys often have evil enemies.

You see JiJo, any nation having such weapons and the necessary carrying systems is impossible to overpower. When someone threatens there very existence they can always threaten to use them. That is the reason why for example the israelis have been working desperatley on their nuclear program. (They are now said to have more than 200 nuclear warheads and as they started a rocket some time ago (allegedly for sattelites or something) this was also the message to all enemies of israel that they now have the carrying systems.) This is also the reason why nearly every nation that can afford it is working openly or secretly on such weapons. Israel bombed Osirak in the eighties to be sure that they won the nuclear race. Iraq wants them because Israel wants them (and the other wy round). Iran wants to have them before Iraq does. (Both are mortal enemies...still. When there are contacts between them its only the pressure of the U.S. that is the reason for this, remember, even Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union worked together for a while... )
And the behaviour of the U.S. now is making everyone even more desperate to get those weapons. More than 70% of the worlds nations are dictatorships... and all know that for example Hussein had had nuclear weapons as he invaded Kuwait, things would have turned out very different.
And its inevitable that some will succeed... India and Pakistan already have... (Pakistan is also a case... its ruled by an general who simply ursurped power... This small men looks friendly and harmless but you can be sure that he has more than one skeleton in the locket. At least he is presently an ally of the U.S.)
What to do about it? Well even the U.S. can't invade every country that is a potential danger. I hope that someday the E.U. will become a power of some military potency but even then...

Let us face it... there will be no easy solution.

[Kitsune]

And ahem... Trigger!

I did not mean that N Korea is not a danger or that S.Kora does not feel threatened. They do... almost permanently.
But if someone in Korea is holding a speach that sounds like a blood dripping declararion of war that is often posturing.
Although it does not have to be. I would not be surprised when S. Koreans can detect wether his N.Korean really means it... soem subtle signs perhaps... they share the same cultural backround.

[Kitsune]

And... ahem again!

Forget about those pakistani skeletons in a locket
:roll:
Would 't fit I think... lets move them to some closets or something! p-)

[Trigger]

...some subtle signs like, the sky to the north lighting up from artillery or maybe the assassination of the leadership of the south, followed by the aforementioned sky lighting up? All it takes is a phone call. I know, I'm being overdramatic.

The Pakistanis will fit in the locket if you fold 'em reeeeeally small! :D

[OPSS]

War is not going to happen most likely.

N Koreans have been trapped and have no where to go. They use so many weird things to get money from USA, S Korea and Japan.

But are they so dumb to just give them money? No it's all politics.

N Koreans have been developing nukes to attack where? It's more like defensive weapon for them than offensive one.

Just like Pakistan. Just fact that they have nuke, it's going to be pretty stressful to the US, S korea and Japan.

And if S korea collapes, this is something that's totally different story and other countries around there, including USA, don't want that to happen and will literally to anything to prevent that.

It's not too well known, but S korean Military is strong and well trained. Especially Army wise. There have been a report of wargame simulation, and they actually have beaten US army. (this was virtual experiment and with NO airforce or NAVY support, pure Army's)

Their Airforce and Navy are their weak point. But their Army is strong. Kinda up to the point that it's very unbalanced. However their Airforce and Navy are getting stronger and more sophisticated with new weapons and equipment.

There's good reasons why US Gov cares about S korea so much and won't give up until they really have to..