can you id this gun ?

[Math.be]

This gun was presented to us as an AK, but I doubt it, and can't find the model if it realy is. As anyone an idea ?

Thx

[Supplanter]

Maybe a Type 81?
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as71-e.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_81_Assault_Rifle

[chalk_2]

Looks like a Czech VZ58.

[Supplanter]

Looks like a Czech VZ58.

I think you're right, all the little notches and bumps in the second wiki photo match :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz58

[BLUE THOR]

type 81 looks about it or some other obscure knock off version of the AK.
theres alot of licenced manafacturers out there making AK variants...
it'd work much the same as a AK47 but. maybe a coupla small perculiararities.


the furniture looks about right for a CZ58, now that you mention it.
the buttstock is very similar, try find a pic of the CZ from the right hand side

[Math.be]

Must be the Czech VZ58

Thx for the info !

[DeltaWhisky58]

SA vz. 58 P

[Gunge]

Looks like a Czech VZ58.

X2

nice writeup on the US avail model in the American Rifleman a while back
i had never realized its internal sys was completely diff than a standard ak

[Ubar]

X2

nice writeup on the US avail model in the American Rifleman a while back
i had never realized its internal sys was completely diff than a standard ak

Well it is completely different externally, why would it be the same internally? Not even the magazines are the same...

[Gunge]

i think it looks like an ak, fires 7.62x39
and iirc it does use the same mag
but i'll check it out

[DeltaWhisky58]

i think it looks like an ak, fires 7.62x39
and iirc it does use the same mag
but i'll check it out

You seem to think your opinion counts for more than fact.

The AK and Vz58 magazines are not interchangeable and the Vz58 is thought by many to be a better action which differs considerably from Kalashnikov's. I hope that "checking it out" convinces you that you are in fact incorrect.

[FLY]

yes, is it our vz.58...and it's not copy of AK-47...looks only like that, bud inside is very different...

[California Joe]

You seem to think your opinion counts for more than fact.

The AK and Vz58 magazines are not interchangeable and the Vz58 is thought by many to be a better action which differs considerably from Kalashnikov's. I hope that "checking it out" convinces you that you are in fact incorrect.

Quit using logic and mechanical engineering. p-)

[LineDoggie]

This gun was presented to us as an AK, but I doubt it, and can't find the model if it realy is. As anyone an idea ?

ThxCzechoslovak Vz. 58 on a side note, the female sniper in Full Metal Jacket uses the same weapon in the Hue city factory scene

Magazines are deffo NOT interchangeable as stated earlier

Ohio Ordnanceworks makes a Semi Version for the US Market, known as the VZ2000

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/semi-auto/VZ2000-semi-auto.html

[theholeinthedonut]

I'm not very good with guns but couldn't it be a Czech Vz 58?

[California Joe]

Czechoslovak Vz. 58 on a side note, the female sniper in Full Metal Jacket uses the same weapon in the Hue city factory scene

Magazines are deffo NOT interchangeable as stated earlier

Ohio Ordnanceworks makes a Semi Version for the US Market, known as the VZ2000

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/semi-auto/VZ2000-semi-auto.html

You just had to bring her up didn't you. I hate that frigging scene. The fact that they didn't give her a scoped M91/30 irritates the piss out of me.

[California Joe]

I'm not very good with guns but couldn't it be a Czech Vz 58?

Hey, you may be right Mr. Hole. :)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Quit using logic and mechanical engineering. p-)

Sorry boss p-)

[theholeinthedonut]

Hey, you may be right Mr. Hole. :)

On a serious note, does any of you guys have any experience with them? They go quite cheap over here, 350€ for a brand new one, with a ton of accessories included. DW wrote that they were quite good and from the look of it it seems to be better quality then the other AK knock offs, does anybody own one?

[Gunge]

You seem to think your opinion counts for more than fact.

The AK and Vz58 magazines are not interchangeable and the Vz58 is thought by many to be a better action which differs considerably from Kalashnikov's. I hope that "checking it out" convinces you that you are in fact incorrect.

i stand corrected
excuse me oh great one

[Jameten]

Czech VZ58

[KoTeMoRe]

You seem to think your opinion counts for more than fact.

The AK and Vz58 magazines are not interchangeable and the Vz58 is thought by many to be a better action which differs considerably from Kalashnikov's. I hope that "checking it out" convinces you that you are in fact incorrect.


The VZ is not better, it is different. Fit and finish are better. Hole, the gun is a bit more complicated to maintain whe you're used to Chicom's and Zastava's. It is howver a more western leaning gun. Ergonomics are slightly better than your average Angel Keeper.

The main drawback of this fine piece of engineering is the ammunition that was shoved on its throat and the open bolt firing mode. With a different calibre the Samopal would have been a far better rifle.

[LineDoggie]

"Open Bolt"? Like a STEN gun?

[EZFEED]

The main drawback of this fine piece of engineering is the ammunition that was shoved on its throat and the open bolt firing mode. With a different calibre the Samopal would have been a far better rifle.

What?????

What are you talking about? The VZ58 is a closed bolt weapon in both semi and full auto mode. I have 6 of these excellent rifles here at home that I built into semis and one of my other 07FFL friends has a couple post samples.

Excellent weapon IMHO, even in it's first chambering in 7.62X45mm, short stroke gas system and its pretty user friendly when it comes to up keep.

[Aerosoul]

http://submiturpics.com/images/wgq7o6vhv7q3bqce2ei5.jpg

I see you've got a PSG-1.

[KoTeMoRe]

What?????

What are you talking about? The VZ58 is a closed bolt weapon in both semi and full auto mode. I have 6 of these excellent rifles here at home that I built into semis and one of my other 07FFL friends has a couple post samples.

Excellent weapon IMHO, even in it's first chambering in 7.62X45mm, short stroke gas system and its pretty user friendly when it comes to up keep.

I meant the breechblock is completely OPEN when the cartridge is spent and ejected/and mag empty...means it's just disaster waiting to happen when you're on a filthy environement. I had an ear plug that got "bitten" by the slam-door.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSLV9rd53vw

[Likvid]

Excellent weapon IMHO, even in it's first chambering in 7.62X45mm, short stroke gas system and its pretty user friendly when it comes to up keep.
Just a note - vz.58 was 7,62x39 rifle since the beginning. Accepting 7,62x39 into Czechoslovak army was actually reason for vz.58 development.

[EZFEED]

I meant the breechblock is completely OPEN when the cartridge is spent and ejected/and mag empty...means it's just disaster waiting to happen when you're on a filthy environement. I had an ear plug that got "bitten" by the slam-door.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSLV9rd53vw

OK, you mean the last round stop. You had me puzzled there thinking there was some strange open bolt variant floating around out therep-)

And having a last round stop is actually a good feature on the contrary and is present on most modern weapons. It eliminates one movment during mag interchange and eliminates premature firing pin damage by not allowing the bolt to close empty and allowing the hammer to fall on an empty chamber. As far as fouling occuring while the breech is open then sure it can happen but you are in a better situation to clear it than with the bolt closed. I say this because if there is THAT MUCH filth that has collected on the outside during firing you will surely have the same during operation and that will ultimatley lead to a jam anyway.

The inside of the reciever of VZ58 is machined with clearances to allow dirt and fouling to work its way out and there is enough slop engineered into the action to provide decent enough reliability in adverse conditions without having to turn to a full field strip every time the action gets gummed or mudded up. The little sucker chews up crap pretty well actually and leaks it out where it can and the only problem that I have really had is when the ammunition is either out of spec or is filthy (fail even under ideal curcumstances) or if the wrong type of lube is used in the wrong environment or too much of it is applied. In sand and dustsorms laden places in the sandbox you should be using a graphite based lube and very little of it. No oil or liquid stuff like CLP or at least not much of it and dont coat the metal cause it'll just collect crap.p-)

Dont know if your in the military or not, I cant see your video (firewalls here at work) but I hope you have better luck! It really is a fine little rifle!:)

[EZFEED]

Just a note - vz.58 was 7,62x39 rifle since the beginning. Accepting 7,62x39 into Czechoslovak army was actually reason for vz.58 development.

Woops!rofl S'cuse me, you are quite right Likvid! I was thinking about the 52 model there for a moment.
But you do realize however, that the VZ-58 was indeed planned to chamber the Czech round until political pressure from the soviet union forced its adoption to the standardised 7.62X39mm soviet round. It would have been a better rifle IMHO in the hotter Czech round.

[Likvid]

CS Army planned assault rifle in 7,62x45mm yes, but it wasn't vz.58. There were three assault rifle projects in 50s - CZ 522 from Jiri Cermak (vz.58 designer), ZK 503 from Koucky brothers (CZ 75 designers) and ZB 530 from Jiri Holek (ZB 26 and Bren designer). CZ 522 was throwed-out first (although after testing russians said, that CZ 522 was - with complaints - best of all three).
However in the end of 1955, cartridge vz.52 (7,62x45mm) was definitely abandoned, ZK 503 and ZB 530 cancelled and new project for 7,62x39 under code name "Koste" (broom) started.

Maybe reason why people still say that vz.58 was supossed for 7,62x45mm is fact, that 7,62x39mm was still unknown cartridge in Czechoslovakia and Cermak's first teoretical work on vz.58 was based on 7,62x45mm - he presumed that both cartridges should be similar.

[EZFEED]

Great info! :) Was the Kurz round (7.92X33) also proposed for the new rifle? Somewhere I heard that you guys were going to use the old german round or a version based off it (not speaking of the russian round but a Czech version of the Kurz) in the new rifle for the CSLA?

Oh...by the way. I have new pics from the MCA! I will send you them in a PM bud!

[Likvid]

Not sure about Kurz, but iirc there were some plans about 8mm Rapid.
(Btw I believe that 7,62x39 was designed by Yelisarov and Semin on their own, not by derivation from Kurz).

(and nice pics, maybe I saw last one, but others are new to me, thanks)

[KoTeMoRe]

OK, you mean the last round stop. You had me puzzled there thinking there was some strange open bolt variant floating around out therep-)

And having a last round stop is actually a good feature on the contrary and is present on most modern weapons. It eliminates one movment during mag interchange and eliminates premature firing pin damage by not allowing the bolt to close empty and allowing the hammer to fall on an empty chamber. As far as fouling occuring while the breech is open then sure it can happen but you are in a better situation to clear it than with the bolt closed. I say this because if there is THAT MUCH filth that has collected on the outside during firing you will surely have the same during operation and that will ultimatley lead to a jam anyway.

The inside of the reciever of VZ58 is machined with clearances to allow dirt and fouling to work its way out and there is enough slop engineered into the action to provide decent enough reliability in adverse conditions without having to turn to a full field strip every time the action gets gummed or mudded up. The little sucker chews up crap pretty well actually and leaks it out where it can and the only problem that I have really had is when the ammunition is either out of spec or is filthy (fail even under ideal curcumstances) or if the wrong type of lube is used in the wrong environment or too much of it is applied. In sand and dustsorms laden places in the sandbox you should be using a graphite based lube and very little of it. No oil or liquid stuff like CLP or at least not much of it and dont coat the metal cause it'll just collect crap.p-)

Dont know if your in the military or not, I cant see your video (firewalls here at work) but I hope you have better luck! It really is a fine little rifle!:)

It is a fine rifle...the difference is the notable the superior fit and finish. But the Czechs (Czechoslovaks at the time) should have been allowed to experiment with other calibres...

[Montechristo]

Can anyone identify this rifle?
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb164/hellmariner/102052View-of-a-French-soldier-part.jpg

[Mister_manji]

Can anyone identify this rifle?
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb164/hellmariner/102052View-of-a-French-soldier-part.jpgAppears to be a French FR F1 sniper rifle