Need Info on revolver.

[RogueSpy]

Greetings. I am in search of information on a 32 Winchester CTG. If anyone could assist me. I have come in contact with one that supposedly has some history behind it. Cannot release info at this moment. Pic is included. The gun is partially broke down in the pic. Notice the emblems on it. Anyone know anything about this gun?

http://www.keysystemselectric.com/rogue/guns/32WinchesterOTG.jpg

Here is a pic with it put back togather.

http://www.keysystemselectric.com/rogue/guns/32WinchesterOTG2.jpg

[Aussie E]

yep, thats a revolver alright! ;)

[Bombtrack]

Maybe scan/photograph the engravings at a higher res?

[RogueSpy]

I will try later today. On my way to work at the moment. :)

[Maj C]

32 Winchester? Looks like an old S&W model 10 or Victory Model that I used to have.

[Mark Sman]

Maybe a S&W .32-20
http://www.armsbid.com/images/47966.jpg

The barrel looks typically Smith, so do the grips. The cylinder release however does not.

Maybe a Harrington and Richardson or Iver Johnson though. Need to see the marks.

The hinge marks look like commonwealth property marks.

Possibly the ammo
http://www.sarcoinc.com/ammo.html

http://www.sarcoinc.com/images/ammo5.jpg

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/p3220.html

You think it was Robert Johnson's?

Take some pics focusing on the maker/owner marks on the revolver. See what we can do.

[Graeme]

The frame looks very smith and wesson, the cylinder doesnt though..

[RogueSpy]

No. . . clearly engraved on the barrel are the words "32 Winchester CTG". I will try to take better pics soon.

[Graeme]

Smith and Wesson do stamp calibres on barrels...could it be a description of the calibre the gun is chambered in?

[RogueSpy]

barrel
http://www.keysystemselectric.com/rogue/guns/barrel.jpg

Emblem 1: Near Trigger
http://www.keysystemselectric.com/rogue/guns/emblem1.jpg

Emblem 2: Near base of barrel
http://www.keysystemselectric.com/rogue/guns/emblem2.jpg

[flickme]

yep, thats a revolver alright!

Agreed. After much research and study, im sure of it. Its a revolver.

[RogueSpy]

Haha. :cantbeli:

[Graeme]

Frame and barrel point strongly toward it being a Smith and Wesson or a copy of one. General shape, the little bit at the lower back of the bit that the cylinder sits in, the way the barrel is pinned in place - All of these are still haul marks in modern Smithy revolvers. The foresight and barrel look very similar to M10/M&P's. The question still remains though, what the **** is it?

Could be some odd copy manufactured for a police department or military, but why the odd calibring?

[RogueSpy]

You said a key word. Police. Like I said. . . there is a story behind this. . . not sure if I should talk about it on here. . . . If an Admin would PM me so I could talk to them. . . then I may post the info. Thanks.

[oldsoak]

Proof marks look like Belgian - I'll have a look for you and see if I can come up with anything.

[oldsoak]

I dont know if this helps

http://web.jet.es/rafa/b_punzones_eibar_1921_1929.html

[RogueSpy]

Interesting.

[Mark Sman]

I think the barrel mark is .32 Winchester CTG

for cartridge, Smith used this stamp on Russian export models, which this doesn't match yet.

[RogueSpy]

WTH is it then? ? ? lol :bash:

[Bombtrack]

Whats the story behind it? The suspense is killing me

[Mark Sman]

Sorry man, still don't know.

Most likely U.S. made because of the "TRADEMARK REGISTERED U.S. PATENT" on the left side frame beneath that helmet and shield whatsis.

Still haven't figured that out. I''m at work now, so I can't dig into it. Will try more later.

Most likely it is a .32-20 S&W from the late 1800s or early 1900s. I think the cylinder release is possibly a replacement.

This is all guesswok for now.

Any makers marks inside the frame hinge or on the topstrap? Anywhere else for that matter? Possibly on the bottom center metal of the grips. Really anything could help. Also a pic of the right side, front and back of the revolver may help.

Hopefully someone will pop in and know that crest.

[RogueSpy]

I'll go ahead and tell the story.

A very good friend of my uncle's had this very old. . .large safe. He told my uncle that he could have it after he died. He also told him that the contents in the safe were evidence to prove that a certian Police Department was part of a murder/assassination. My uncle just now got the safe open after many years. We bought the gun from him. When I got the gun. . . it looked like it had been laying in the bottom of a lake for years. It was rusted all to hell. In and out. It was in this condition when it was removed from the safe. Now all of this is heresy. I know nothing first hand. I plan on doing some research to find out if this story is true and when it happened. A very good friend of mine who is a Detective is going to run the serial number on the gun.

[Mark Sman]

Cool, still willing to post more pics?

I hate leaving prey not run down.

[RogueSpy]

:bash:

[Mark Sman]

So I can take that as a what? Words far more effective.

[RogueSpy]

lol. I was using my scanner to take the pics. Not really anything else on the gun. Just the serial number on the bottom of the grip. . . . which my friend just called me for the numbers. Should know something either tonight or tomorrow.

[Mark Sman]

Great, interested to know the final word on make model caliber. Maybe it'll even pull year of maunfacture.

[RogueSpy]

One can only hope. I have a few other people looking for info on it too. . . it's like this thing never existed. :cantbeli:

[Bombtrack]

sounds all very interesting

[Mark Sman]

The crest is an importer/dealers mark from J.L. Galef & Sons, NYC. 75 Chambers Street, New York

They imported firearms and ran a store in New York City.

http://www.landofborchardt.com/catalogs.html#images

Pull down on this page a bit, and you will see a rotating image of a Catalog from Galef. The front page has a crest on it. That crest looks like yours.

Further investigative idea.

Make some rubbings of the makers mark areas and scan them in. That may bring up some of the detail that is in the metal but not visible with a direct light source like a scanner uses or even to the naked eye.

If you get to use a digi camera, offset a strong light source to the left and right. See if any more marking cast a shadow.

Still working on more specific info. But it appears to be a Spanish nockoff of a model 10 S&W in .32-20 WCF. Apparently these weapons were made and used in Spain and Latin America in the 1920's - 30s.

More to come.

[Mark Sman]

Manuel Escodin Of Eibar, Spain is the probable manufacturer.


Raymond, You have one of many inexpensive revolvers manufactured in Eibar Spain in the first half of the last century for export to the United States. J. L. Galef & Son of N. Y. C. is probably the importer. Many Eibar revolvers were manufactured using inferior quality steel and are not considered safe to fire. Demand for these revolvers, especially in .32 caliber is very low, probably in the $50 or less range. Marc
http://oldguns.net/cgi-bin/f2f/f2f.pl?http://oldguns.net/q&a9_01.htm

Look on top of the barrel for something like this.
http://gmartin-auctions.com/seattledec03/431/431-3.jpg

This mark from the page that oldsoak posted

http://web.jet.es/rafa/punzon_1921_01.jpg

Is alot like the one you have beneath the barrel pin, and the title of the page is "Eibar Test Facilities Proofmarks from Aug. 24th, 1921 to Dec. 14th, 1929".

We have some Spanish posters on the forum. This is where they might be very useful.

[Mark Sman]

I know someone who is the right age and experience to ask some further questions too concerning the story. But I'll need the dirty details. Names, places dates. You can PM me if needed.

[RogueSpy]

Im not releasing any more info on it till I find out who it is registered to. . . and if it is true that this certian police department was accused of such a thing.

Also. . . there is no other writing on the barrel. Just the "32 Winchester CTG". Someone once told me that you could acid treat the gun to make the emblems and whatnot come back out to be more visible. WTH was he talking about? Is this possible?

[Maj C]

It's a long way from the grassy knoll for a revolver! ;)

[Mark Sman]

Thats cool.

I don't know about acid treatment, but it sounds like something I would leave off until other options are ehausted.

Might take a trip to the local detists and talk him into a quick zap witht he xray.

However, a thorough records search may yield all the results you need.

[RogueSpy]

Still havn't heard anything.

[RogueSpy]

Ok. Got word back. Gun was run through database. No hit. My friend forwarded the pics to his friends at the FBI. They can't figure out where this thing came from either. lol This is too funny.

[Raistlin]

Well, keep us posted.

Btw, are you sure the number should be in US DB? Maybe it's Canadian or Mexican.