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Fage
02-17-2009, 10:48 AM
February 10, 2009
By DAN STRUMPF and ELAINE KURTENBACH

Monthly auto sales in China surpassed those in the U.S. for the first time last month, but automakers and industry watchers say the news may tell us more about the troubles in the U.S. than about China's growing car market.

"China has the potential very easily to become the largest car market in the world," said Tom Wilkinson, a spokesman for General Motors Corp., but "it was probably a bit of an aberration in January."

Data released Tuesday by the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers shows 735,000 new cars were sold in China last month, down 14.4 percent from the record of 860,000 set in January 2008. U.S. sales, meanwhile, fell 37 percent to 656,976 vehicles -- a 26-year low.
It's another indication of China's economic clout, but it may take a while before China becomes the world's largest auto market.

"Right now, with the U.S. in correction mode, we're going to get these kinds of anomalies," said Rebecca Lindland, auto analyst for IHS Global Insight. "We could get them throughout the course of this year and throughout next year if we don't get an economic recovery."

U.S. auto sales have shrunk from an annual sales rate of around 16 million to sales of 13.2 million vehicles in 2008. Analysts and automakers are predicting industrywide sales to drop as low as 10.5 million this year as high unemployment and low consumer confidence keep people from purchasing big-ticket items.

Chinese vehicle sales also have cooled, but hardly as dramatically. In 2008, China's auto sales grew 6.7 percent to 9.38 million units -- the first time growth has fallen below 10 percent since 1999.

If American car demand revives in coming months, the U.S. likely will remain ahead in annual sales -- at least for another year. IHS Global Insight still predicts 2009 sales in China of between 9 million and 9.5 million, and U.S. sales of 10.5 million.

China's vehicle market has grown dramatically in recent years, overtaking Japan in 2006 to become the world's second-largest by annual sales. With 1.3 billion people, China may inevitably leapfrog the U.S., with a population of 300 million, into the No. 1 spot, but that moment may still be many years away, Lindland said.

"Even long term, I think the economics have a long way to go before China consistently passes us," Lindland said.

China's best-selling automakers are GM and Germany's Volkswagen AG, but its own ambitious producers, such as Chery Automobile Co., are growing fast.

GM said it sold a record 1.09 million vehicles in China last year, up 6 percent from 2007. With its growing middle class and vast potential as a consumer market, China is vital for GM, Volkswagen and Toyota Motor Corp. as they count on demand there to offset weakness in the U.S. and elsewhere.

"There's no question that it's a huge potential market if you look at the number of people there, and as more people start to enter the middle class," GM's Wilkinson said. "A car is something a lot of people aspire to."
GM is already is one of biggest automakers in China, with billions of dollars invested in joint ventures. The Detroit automaker has been counting on the growth in China and other emerging markets to help offset losses elsewhere. It currently sells cars under nearly all GM brands and through a joint venture called SAIC-GM-Wuling.

Wuling sales accounted for more than half of GM cars sold in China last year, spokesman John McDonald said, with a huge portion coming from the popular Sunshine minivan.

To spur the slowing auto market, the Chinese government has rolled out measures to help boost vehicle sales as part of a multibillion-dollar economic stimulus package while it also tries to promote cleaner, more energy-efficient engines.

The sales tax on cars with engines less than 1.6 liters has been cut by half to 5 percent through the end of the year. The government also is spending 5 billion yuan (about $730 million) on subsidies to farmers to replace three-wheeled vehicles or outdated trucks with small, 1.3-liter-or-less vehicles.

Another 10 billion yuan ($1.5 billion) is going into upgrading automakers' technology and developing alternative energy vehicles.

Trucks and buses make up a larger share of China's sales than those of the United States or Japan. Some observers say that makes direct comparisons misleading. But many rural Chinese use such commercial vehicles for everyday family use.

Elaine Kurtenbach reported from Shanghai.

Source:http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D96906LG0.htm

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 10:59 AM
What does that signify?
China has more than 1 billion population than the US.

Hollis
02-17-2009, 11:08 AM
What does that signify?
China has more than 1 billion population than the US.


In Los Angeles CA, 14 million people and 30 million cars. In the same size city in China, 14 million people, 30,000 cars......... OK I am joking. China has a pretty much untapped auto market. Once the Chinese people start making more money, it is not only car sells that will soar. China has gone a long ways in a very short time.

wotsnext
02-17-2009, 11:12 AM
What worries me is where all the oil is going to come from to fuel these new cars?

LineDoggie
02-17-2009, 11:19 AM
Good to hear, let us know when they can make a Porche copy

StickyPop
02-17-2009, 11:24 AM
Good to hear, let us know when they can make a Porche copy

It'll fall apart in three weeks....maybe four.

damagejackal
02-17-2009, 11:31 AM
This should be greeted as good news actually,
If only America had some decent cars to sell an their Automakers wern't all cot cases like they are today:-(

LineDoggie
02-17-2009, 11:44 AM
Because nothing spells economic giant like a Yugo copy.....

2Sheds_Jackson
02-17-2009, 11:48 AM
Doesn't surprise me much- especially knowing what can qualify as a "car" in China.

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 12:09 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151807

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 12:11 PM
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/community/yxyy/humour/0508/pic/050830kt_04.jpg

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 12:12 PM
the picture above is the scene of an avenue inn Beijing

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 12:14 PM
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/community/yxyy/humour/0508/pic/050830kt_06.gif

Sea of cars in downtown Beijing

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 12:17 PM
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/community/yxyy/humour/0508/pic/050830kt_03.jpg

sea of cars in the same downtown area of Beijing

little icebear
02-17-2009, 12:20 PM
http://88.198.57.81/moritz/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/ricebag.jpg

LineDoggie
02-17-2009, 12:27 PM
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/community/yxyy/humour/0508/pic/050830kt_03.jpg

sea of cars in the same downtown area of Beijing


Baahh! That nothing, here ratest model American car

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/untitled-8.jpg

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 12:30 PM
http://image1.chinabbs.com/pic_search/original/13251/f1ef768d5a071d973309244c9985dabf.jpg

Telmar
02-17-2009, 12:36 PM
You know your country is civilzed when...

you have massive traffic jams.

The city of Bratislava envies your exterior signs of civilization

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 12:36 PM
http://postimg1.mop.com/200704/25/55/1608755/200704251415503081.JPG

Stream of cars in Shanghai

SBL
02-17-2009, 12:37 PM
Thank you, Shuimo. We get the point.

zheka130
02-17-2009, 01:11 PM
the pollution in China is horrible, and will only increase, i feel sorry for them

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 01:12 PM
the pollution in China is horrible, and will only increase, i feel sorry for them

In some areas it is serious, OK?
Not whole of China!

Hollis
02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
In some areas it is serious, OK?
Not whole of China!


DO NOT TAKE THIS THREAD OFF TOPIC. I Do not care if you make 50 cents a post or what ever.

JKD
02-17-2009, 01:24 PM
China would be wise to not become a car based society like we did in the US over the last 60 or so years. They should be building walkable cities with plenty of public transit.

Rapier55
02-17-2009, 01:26 PM
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/community/yxyy/humour/0508/pic/050830kt_04.jpg
Looks like the 405 on a Monday evening. I hope they're building infrastructure to parallel this growth.

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 01:33 PM
DO NOT TAKE THIS THREAD OFF TOPIC. I Do not care if you make 50 cents a post or what ever.
d u really don't care?

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 01:34 PM
DO NOT TAKE THIS THREAD OFF TOPIC. I Do not care if you make 50 cents a post or what ever.
strop making ramdom guess!

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 01:35 PM
China would be wise to not become a car based society like we did in the US over the last 60 or so years. They should be building walkable cities with plenty of public transit.
I guess it is impossible!
Everybody is asipring to get cars here in Beijing!

Shuimo
02-17-2009, 01:39 PM
You know your country is civilzed when...

you have massive traffic jams.

The city of Bratislava envies your exterior signs of civilization

China has plenty of beautiful cities.
I have posted lots of pictures here.
But the mod deleted them all. Pity!

Hollis
02-17-2009, 01:41 PM
strop making ramdom guess!


Enjoy our nice random holiday.

I can't think of a name
02-17-2009, 01:45 PM
I don't envy China

Parx400
02-17-2009, 01:50 PM
Good for Car Makers. Buick sells more cars in China than they do here.

Lazy Lob
02-17-2009, 03:44 PM
What worries me is where all the oil is going to come from to fuel these new cars?

From the crispy ducks.

delio
02-17-2009, 03:53 PM
This should be greeted as good news actually,
If only America had some decent cars to sell an their Automakers wern't all cot cases like they are today:-(







Actually, American autos comprise some of the most regarded cars in China. It may be hard to comprehend but outside the U.S., and particularly in the third world, American brands tend are as a rule regarded in very high esteem - as a status symbol of the high and upper middle class.

Take GM's Buick in China , ..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/12775440#12775440


Buick bucks the trend

GM brand is No. 1 car seller in China, thanks to smart marketing

SHANGHAI - When Lin Hui and his wife went shopping in Shanghai for their first car, they splurged, spending $17,000 on their dream machine.It was a Buick.

“It’s safe, it’s comfortable, and the look is beautiful,” Lin said.

Buick’s sizzling sales have driven General Motors — even as it closes plants and lays off workers at home — to the top of the pack in China, the world’s fastest-growing automobile market. GM sold 665,000 cars and trucks in China last year. For now, only 1 in 100 Chinese own a car, compared to 9 in 10 in the United States. But the Chinese expect 130 million vehicles to be sold by 2020. In fact, GM now sells more cars overseas than it does at home.

“They like the image of what America is,” said Michael Dunne, president of Automotive Resources Asia, a marketing stagy firm based in Thailand. “America is big, broad and powerful.”

Hitting China’s sweet spot

Nearly 1 in 7 cars sold here is made by GM, just seven years after it opened its first dealership. The company recently added a second plant in Shanghai and plans to open 150 new Chevrolet dealerships, expanding its Chinese workforce to 20,000.

GM can afford to expand because, unlike in the United, it has no health care costs, and pensions for its Chinese workers are minimal.

GM went right to the top in targeting the consumer it wanted to reach: the rich. Its goal was to establish Buick as the dream car for every Chinese driver.

Take the Buick minivan. It was designed for suburban moms in the United States, but in China, it is a status symbol.

“They want a car that says, ‘I’ve arrived,’” said Troy Clarke, president of GM Asia -Pacific.

Likewise, the GL-8 minivan has been redesigned for China’s business elite, with an oversized Buick logo, seat-back television screens and angled headlights to imitate the eyes of a mythical Chinese bird.

“Fine detail, fit finishes, a little bit of chrome or a little bit of jewelry in just the right spot where Chinese consumer might look for it,” Clarke said.

The Buick has always had a bit of allure here. The last emperor was the proud owner of two Buicks, but now, the Buick is making a new generation of Chinese feel at least like kings of the road.

© 2008 msnbc.com Reprints (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3303539/)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/12775440#12775440

SBL
02-17-2009, 03:56 PM
I don't envy China
Home of the only traffic pattern visible from space.:lol:

Parx400
02-17-2009, 04:14 PM
This goes to show you how bad GM has been at home. All the profits overseas can't make up for the losses comming out of the UAW Plants.

Ordie
02-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Do we really need more cars to pollute our air and increase our dependency of fossil fuels?

China can learn from our mistakes and create livable communities that is easily accessible for pedestrians, bicyclist and public transit.

China can still easily achieve a high standard of living without an increase of cars. Copenhagen, Curitiba, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia are good case studies.

I can't think of a name
02-17-2009, 08:27 PM
China would be wise to not become a car based society like we did in the US over the last 60 or so years. They should be building walkable cities with plenty of public transit.

Agreed, but they are copy cats not innovators.

Ordie
02-17-2009, 08:33 PM
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/community/yxyy/humour/0508/pic/050830kt_04.jpg

How does one cross a street like that?

Lazy Lob
02-17-2009, 08:39 PM
Do we really need more cars to pollute our air and increase our dependency of fossil fuels?

China can learn from our mistakes and create livable communities that is easily accessible for pedestrians, bicyclist and public transit.

China can still easily achieve a high standard of living without an increase of cars. Copenhagen, Curitiba, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia are good case studies.

They won’t. They are probably hoping our conversion to renewables is fast and that oil prices drop or at least stay low so as their economy can carry on producing on the cheap.

But I can just see the US and the EU slapping on huge tariffs on goods produced with oil either as a material or a power source if we ever go onto renewables.

Ordie
02-17-2009, 08:40 PM
I guess it is impossible!
Everybody is asipring to get cars here in Beijing!

Why?

Why do you want to emulate our Western car dependent lifestyle. When I visited Beijing 10 years ago, it was a pleasant city with dedicated tree-lined pedestrian and bikeways. One never needed a car for goods and serivcies and the streets were safe to walk in the middle of the night.

Beijing was used as a case study for the development of urban bikeways at US Cities and livable communities based on the centuries old Hutong neghborhood models.

CG51
02-17-2009, 08:48 PM
How does one cross a street like that?

http://i43.tinypic.com/9uxkrb.jpg

Kadrun
02-17-2009, 09:01 PM
http://www.pcauto.com.cn/community/yxyy/humour/0508/pic/050830kt_04.jpg

this is nothing compared to 101 & 405
I spent 4 yrs of my lifetime there sittin in the skool bus for high skool

one day, it took me more than 4 hrs to get to LA to Woodland Hills due to fire. my ass hurted a lot that day (i still wonder why my school opened that day even though we were at the cloest location to the fire sight... i was able to see fire burning whole mountain with eye and ashes flew everywhere in school........ other schools located farther away closed...!! ECR SUCKS)

BloodyTalon
02-18-2009, 01:55 AM
Pretty much anything related to traffic and LA is gridlock hell. I have to commute from the Bay Area to San Diego during the summer and winter and most of it is pretty nice and quick considering the distance, but whenever i get to LA in the evening it slows to a goddamn crawl. Last time i got back for summer break it only took me 4-5 hours to get out of the Bay Area, cross the valley, and go through the grapevine. Amount of time it took me to go across LA in the evening on Memorial Day Weekend? 4 Hours. 4 frikken hours!

But at least I got to keep myself entertained by listening to KROQ.

ren0312
02-18-2009, 02:12 AM
Pretty much anything related to traffic and LA is gridlock hell. I have to commute from the Bay Area to San Diego during the summer and winter and most of it is pretty nice and quick considering the distance, but whenever i get to LA in the evening it slows to a goddamn crawl. Last time i got back for summer break it only took me 4-5 hours to get out of the Bay Area, cross the valley, and go through the grapevine. Amount of time it took me to go across LA in the evening on Memorial Day Weekend? 4 Hours. 4 frikken hours!

But at least I got to keep myself entertained by listening to KROQ.

I just cannot get people who like heavy metal music, it is not music, it is noise, the same goes for rap and hip hop, I myself prefer classical, pop, and light rock.

Ordie
02-18-2009, 03:30 AM
I just cannot get people who like heavy metal music, it is not music, it is noise, the same goes for rap and hip hop, I myself prefer classical, pop, and light rock.

KROQ is the Punk, Ska, New Wave, Alternative radio station.

ren0312
02-18-2009, 04:04 AM
KROQ is the Punk, Ska, New Wave, Alternative radio station.

I can not appreciate those too, mostly my ear is only suited for mellow tunes. Soft AC ftw.

I can't think of a name
02-18-2009, 05:45 AM
How does one cross a street like that?

That is Tienanmen Gate on the left and the Square on the right.

Pedestrians can take a tunnel under the road.

Ordie
02-18-2009, 10:17 AM
That is Tienanmen Gate on the left and the Square on the right.

Pedestrians can take a tunnel under the road.

Is it wheelchair accessible?

I can't think of a name
02-18-2009, 02:43 PM
I don't remember if their was an elevator or ramp.

Shuimo
03-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Is it wheelchair accessible?
Yes!
wheelchair is accessible