Israeli Army summons for questioning, confiscates exhibit ma

[EvanL]

Army summons for questioning, confiscates exhibit material of soldiers who give account of Hebron occupation



JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli army said today it was investigating a group of reserve soldiers who set up a photo exhibit giving vivid accounts of abuse and harassment of Palestinians in Hebron.

The "Breaking the Silence" exhibit — put on display at a film school in Tel Aviv earlier this month — has photos and stark testimonials of soldiers who tell of harassing a bride and groom, throwing stun grenades at Palestinian children for fun and other details of their time in the West Bank city.

After completing three years of compulsory service, the group of more than 80 infantry soldiers — who currently serve in reserve units — decided to give their account of what they called the ``crazy reality" of Hebron, where about 500 Jewish settlers live in enclaves surrounded by 130,000 Palestinians.

The army said it summoned the soldiers for questioning and issued a court order today that they hand over any material that could assist the investigation.

"They are trying to frighten us and other soldiers who have expressed readiness to take part in the project," Micha Kurtz, one of the exhibit's organizers, told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz.

According to Haaretz, military police raided the exhibit late Tuesday and confiscated a file of newspaper clippings and a videotape with the accounts of 70 soldiers.

"The army teaches its soldiers to act morally even in complex situations," the army said. It refused to confirm Tuesday's raid.

Those who put together the exhibit allegedly committed the crimes while soldiers and therefore fall under the auspices of the military court system, a military official said. The investigation is based on "testimony of those involved and eyewitnesses.''

The army initially welcomed the exhibit, but said the soldiers should have complained about the situation to their commanders while they were on duty.

The army did not say why it took nearly three weeks to open an investigation into the exhibit, which debuted in early June.

[UoUo]

Assholes.....

[EvanL]

Assholes.....
Which ones?
Frankly i think if somebody sees something wrong, and they have the opportunity to take a picture of it. They should go ahead and do it. Doesnt it seem weird that the Army welcomed the exhibit, and then raided it saying how they should have complained to their superiours while on duty?
If it wasnt for the soldier at Abu Ghraib who decided to step up and show the pictures we would have never known if it was truly going on or not. I dont think that this exhibit is meant to tarnish all members of the IDF. But if it shows "a select few" IDF soldiers taking advantage of their status, it should be shown to the public, and the higher ups, and those responsible should be punished. Thats how it works in a democracy.

[UoUo]

Assholes.....
Which ones?
Frankly i think if somebody sees something wrong, and they have the opportunity to take a picture of it. They should go ahead and do it. Doesnt it seem weird that the Army welcomed the exhibit, and then raided it saying how they should have complained to their superiours while on duty?
If it wasnt for the soldier at Abu Ghraib who decided to step up and show the pictures we would have never known if it was truly going on or not. I dont think that this exhibit is meant to tarnish all members of the IDF. But if it shows "a select few" IDF soldiers taking advantage of their status, it should be shown to the public, and the higher ups, and those responsible should be punished. Thats how it works in a democracy.

You compare Abu Ghraib to this show?

No...nothing to compare....i heard the stories in the local media.....
And i didn'y heard thing that shoked me....hmm...

like 1 story "they took palstinian that they arrest...and then the border patrol came...and took him for a ride....and wehen they came back he was scare..and they made him to sing a Israeli song"...wow...big deal. :roll:

[EvanL]

Assholes.....
Which ones?
Frankly i think if somebody sees something wrong, and they have the opportunity to take a picture of it. They should go ahead and do it. Doesnt it seem weird that the Army welcomed the exhibit, and then raided it saying how they should have complained to their superiours while on duty?
If it wasnt for the soldier at Abu Ghraib who decided to step up and show the pictures we would have never known if it was truly going on or not. I dont think that this exhibit is meant to tarnish all members of the IDF. But if it shows "a select few" IDF soldiers taking advantage of their status, it should be shown to the public, and the higher ups, and those responsible should be punished. Thats how it works in a democracy.

You compare Abu Ghraib to this show?

No...nothing to compare....i heard the stories in the local media.....
And i didn'y heard thing that shoked me....hmm...

like 1 story "they took palstinian that they arrest...and then the border patrol came...and took him for a ride....and wehen they came back he was scare..and they made him to sing a Israeli song"...wow...big deal. :roll:
I never compared this situation to AbuGhraib, other than the fact that there are pictures of this incident.

[UoUo]

And i personally think that such exhibits just harm us...and they harm all The IDF members...if they think they saw something wrong they should Adress the "mez"h" the MP they will investigation.

BTW 80 IDF people...from millions that served there....

[IDFM203]

Those who put together the exhibit allegedly committed the crimes while soldiers and therefore fall under the auspices of the military court system, a military official said. The investigation is based on "testimony of those involved and eyewitnesses.''

My whole problem with this is more to do with this seems like such a transparent political agenda (in terms of whether we should be there or not) on behalf of those reservists for it was they who committed these crimes as reservists and then they put it on exhibit :roll:

I mean is no one following that fact? :roll:


I mean its as if they set out purposely to do this so then they can cause a black eye to the IDF and Israel in general so the general overall debate of our presence there can be thrust back into the spotlight and in a negative way, one which they feel can only help their view on things.

Now I admit I have not been following this case closely so if any other Israelis know more about this or can comment on what I juts said, well that would be appreciative.

Shalom :D

[EvanL]

And i personally think that such exhibits just harm us...and they harm all The IDF members...if they think they saw something wrong they should Adress the "mez"h" the MP they will investigation.

BTW 80 IDF people...from millions that served there....
Exactly.
Thats why i said "a select few"
But for those 80, there is probably a neither 80 on the opposite side of the spectrum taking advantage of their status as soldiers. As would happen in any army. Whether it be the americans in Abu Ghraib, or the Canadian Airborn soldiers in Somalia.

[EvanL]

Those who put together the exhibit allegedly committed the crimes while soldiers and therefore fall under the auspices of the military court system, a military official said. The investigation is based on "testimony of those involved and eyewitnesses.''

My whole problem with this is more to do with this seems like such a transparent political agenda (in terms of whether we should be there or not) on behalf of those reservists for it was they who committed these crimes as reservists and then they put it on exhibit :roll:

I mean is no one following that fact? :roll:


I mean its as if they set out purposely to do this so then they can cause a black eye to the IDF and Israel in general so the general overall debate of our presence there can be thrust back into the spotlight and in a negative way, one which they feel can only help their view on things.

Now I admit I have not been following this case closely so if any other Israelis know more about this or can comment on what I juts said, well that would be appreciative.

Shalom :D
I was under the impression from reading this article, that it was these guys who took pics of other soldiers in the act.
But then again...........

[UoUo]

And i personally think that such exhibits just harm us...and they harm all The IDF members...if they think they saw something wrong they should Adress the "mez"h" the MP they will investigation.

BTW 80 IDF people...from millions that served there....
Exactly.
Thats why i said "a select few"
But for those 80, there is probably a neither 80 on the opposite side of the spectrum taking advantage of their status as soldiers. As would happen in any army. Whether it be the americans in Abu Ghraib, or the Canadian Airborn soldiers in Somalia.

Can you give me any info about Canadian Airborn soldiers in Somalia?

Didn't heard about that.....what happend there?

[UoUo]

Just remmberd...i have the pics from the exshbit....i will post here in few moments....

Nothing shocking in the pics.

[IDFM203]

Those who put together the exhibit allegedly committed the crimes while soldiers and therefore fall under the auspices of the military court system, a military official said. The investigation is based on "testimony of those involved and eyewitnesses.''

My whole problem with this is more to do with this seems like such a transparent political agenda (in terms of whether we should be there or not) on behalf of those reservists for it was they who committed these crimes as reservists and then they put it on exhibit :roll:

I mean is no one following that fact? :roll:


I mean its as if they set out purposely to do this so then they can cause a black eye to the IDF and Israel in general so the general overall debate of our presence there can be thrust back into the spotlight and in a negative way, one which they feel can only help their view on things.

Now I admit I have not been following this case closely so if any other Israelis know more about this or can comment on what I juts said, well that would be appreciative.

Shalom :D
I was under the impression from reading this article, that it was these guys who took pics of other soldiers in the act.
But then again...........how so? I repeat the qoute I responded to.......

"Those who put together the exhibit allegedly committed the crimes while soldiers and therefore fall under the auspices of the military court system, a military official said. The investigation is based on "testimony of those involved and eyewitnesses."

If I am missing something here then like I said before, I am all ears ;)

Shalom :D

[EvanL]

And i personally think that such exhibits just harm us...and they harm all The IDF members...if they think they saw something wrong they should Adress the "mez"h" the MP they will investigation.

BTW 80 IDF people...from millions that served there....
Exactly.
Thats why i said "a select few"
But for those 80, there is probably a neither 80 on the opposite side of the spectrum taking advantage of their status as soldiers. As would happen in any army. Whether it be the americans in Abu Ghraib, or the Canadian Airborn soldiers in Somalia.

Can you give me any info about Canadian Airborn soldiers in Somalia?

Didn't heard about that.....what happend there?
ROughly 3 of our soldiers, maybe more, from our most distinguished regiment, captured a somalia teenager breaking into the camp. They detained him without permission and tortured him to death. There was also another incident where they shot an intruder without word, and it turned out to be another teenager, i believe. I dont have all the info on it. Im sure someone else will. Anyways, this resulted in our Airborne Regiment (equal to the U.S. Rangers) being disbanded by the Ultra-Politically Correct, pacifist liberals.
Shalom

[EvanL]

Those who put together the exhibit allegedly committed the crimes while soldiers and therefore fall under the auspices of the military court system, a military official said. The investigation is based on "testimony of those involved and eyewitnesses.''

My whole problem with this is more to do with this seems like such a transparent political agenda (in terms of whether we should be there or not) on behalf of those reservists for it was they who committed these crimes as reservists and then they put it on exhibit :roll:

I mean is no one following that fact? :roll:


I mean its as if they set out purposely to do this so then they can cause a black eye to the IDF and Israel in general so the general overall debate of our presence there can be thrust back into the spotlight and in a negative way, one which they feel can only help their view on things.

Now I admit I have not been following this case closely so if any other Israelis know more about this or can comment on what I juts said, well that would be appreciative.

Shalom :D
I was under the impression from reading this article, that it was these guys who took pics of other soldiers in the act.
But then again...........how so? I repeat the qoute I responded to.......

"Those who put together the exhibit allegedly committed the crimes while soldiers and therefore fall under the auspices of the military court system, a military official said. The investigation is based on "testimony of those involved and eyewitnesses."

If I am missing something here then like I said before, I am all ears ;)

Shalom :D
No your not missing anything. Infact it is my mistake. I didnt read that sentence fully. Thank you for pointing it out.

[UoUo]

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_5.jpg

Arested palstinain.


http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_18.jpg

Sol' near a jewish settler that use to walk between the army position and play songs to the sol'

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_53.jpg

Palstinain kid behind sniper site.
:|


http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_49.jpg

Army car behind sniper site.

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_45.jpg

Israeli sol' behind night site.

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_44.jpg

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_42.jpg

"Jewish blood isn't cheap!!!!" grafiti on a palstinain house.

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_40.jpg

Hebron is hours.

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_35.jpg

"revenge"

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_31.jpg

Israeli sol'

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_28.jpg

Same.

[/img]

[EvanL]

Whats so bad about these pictures?

[UoUo]

Whats so bad about these pictures?

You tell me...

Those are some of the pics in the exshbit.

[EvanL]

WHere are the ones of the kids having flashbangs thrown at them?

[UoUo]

WHere are the ones of the kids having flashbangs thrown at them?

I will try to find...but i don't think they have that cind of pics....

From my opinian those sol' just a left wing that wnat us get out od their...

[Javehn]

Whats so bad about these pictures?

Well , some people (and not all ) see immoral deads as smeering prisoners in **** , and then make a human piramide of them .
Some see this as imorral acts . By the way , those aren't all the pictures , there are more (one of them have actually very shoking writting on the wall).


Doesnt it seem weird that the Army welcomed the exhibit, and then raided it saying how they should have complained to their superiours while on duty?


Wrong ! Army Military Police confiscated the findings , to open an interagation , about those guys deads . That's what they basicly wanted , and that's what they recieved .


My whole problem with this is more to do with this seems like such a transparent political agenda (in terms of whether we should be there or not) on behalf of those reservists for it was they who committed these crimes as reservists and then they put it on exhibit

What reservists ? This exhibit was done by soldiers from Nahal , pictures from active duty . And no , they don't have political agenda , not everything is political agenda .
They wanted to show , in order that some things will never happend again . You know , to pretend that everything is white and good is a sign of denial .

[UoUo]

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_34.jpg

"revenge - death to the arabs"

The "worst" pic i could fing....still that not write by the sol'

And few more i will like to add

the name of the jewish baby that shot by pal' sniper

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/hebrew/modules/coppermine/albums/Hebron/normal_Hebron_58.jpg

[oldsoak]

Let me get this right - The Israeli military police are investigating allegations of abuse correct ?

1 they have informed soldiers or ex soldiers who were involved or were witnesses to these events that they are going to be questioned about these allegations.

2 they have taken away material that may provide evidence as part of their investigation.

- sounds like normal procedure or have I got the wrong end of the stick ?

[Javehn]

No , it's pretty much correct .

[aktarian]

Whats so bad about these pictures?

You tell me...

Those are some of the pics in the exshbit.

If there is nothing shocking about exhibit then why it was raided and material confiscated?

[Javehn]

Because that's what the exhibitter asked for . They spoked about misconduct and misbehavior .
And now Army is checking if some wrong activity indeed take place there . By the way , not only pictures taking part of the exhibit . They also have testimonies , car keys and so on .

[IDFM203]

What reservists ? This exhibit was done by soldiers from Nahal , pictures from active duty . And no , they don't have political agenda , not everything is political agenda .
They wanted to show , in order that some things will never happend again . You know , to pretend that everything is white and good is a sign of denial .First of all I said I don’t know that much about this being that I haven’t followed this story that much so if they aren’t reservists then fine.

However with that said, get my point clear!!…………this isn’t about whether things are all good are not, for I KNOW they aren’t (hell I don’t know how any such situation can there be things to be perfact and I don’t care what military your talking about……for nothing is all good for thats just unrealistic to expect), however I do feel it is a agenda by some leftist soldiers (hey in Nachal that wouldn’t surprise me :roll: ) being that it is THEM that did the acts that they have put on exhibit :roll: .....I find it amazing that THESE soldiers took pics and then put it on exhibit to show how things are bad there when it is THEM that did those things :cantbeli:

To me this does reek of a political agenda (as I outlined in more detail in my previous post in this thread).

Shalom :D

[Moledet]

Just some funny guys, move on, you can't bash Israel in this topic.

P.S. I've heard about this exhibit in the TV news two weeks ago, I think that's a new record for the world media (a report about something two weeks after it happens).