Russia issues passports to expand its reach

[Ordie]

If Russians can't re-produce fast enough for an army, find them elsewhere at the near abroad.


Russia issues passports to expand its reach

Maria Danilova,Gary Peach, Associated Press
Sunday, February 22, 2009
[/URL] [URL="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2009/02/22/MN6H15VC8K.DTL&o=1&type=printable"] (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2009/02/22/MN6H15VC8K.DTL&o=0&type=printable)




(02-22) 04:00 PST Tiraspol, Moldova -- Retired postal worker Maria Kozyrenko is a new citizen of Russia - along with 135,000 others in Trans-Dniester alone.
Kozyrenko hasn't lived in Russia since the Soviet era. But she got her passport two years ago as part of the Kremlin's push to grant citizenship to hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians living in former Soviet countries, including Georgia, Moldova, Estonia and Ukraine.
"All our hopes are with Russia," said Kozyrenko, as she hawked an old black coat at a flea market in Tiraspol, the capital of Trans-Dniester. "We hope that Russia will protect us."
Russia has given passports to nearly 2.9 million former Soviet citizens since 2000, according to the Federal Migration Service. It does not break down the numbers between those who returned to Russia and those who still live abroad.
Some fear Moscow will use its growing expatriate communities to meddle in the domestic politics of countries near its borders, or - as in the case of Georgia - as an excuse for military intervention. But the Kremlin says it is granting passports to Russians abroad for humanitarian rather than political reasons, to help Russians trapped in other countries after the breakup of the Soviet Union.
Spokesman Alexei Sazonov pointed out that Western countries, such as Belgium, have conducted similar campaigns in the past.
"We have a nonconfrontational foreign policy - we don't need any conflicts," Sazonov said. "At the same time to defend the rights of compatriots is a right countries have."
The creation of communities of Russian citizens is already undermining Ukraine's entry into NATO and weakening Moldova as it looks to Europe. It also lets the West know that Russia wants to be reckoned with in what it considers its sphere of influence.
"This is a warning, a serious reminder that there are grounds for concern for those who don't recognize Russia's interests," said Masha Lipman, an analyst with the Carnegie Moscow Center.
For example, in recent years, the Kremlin has handed out tens of thousands of passports in the breakaway Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It then in part justified its military incursion into Georgia last year by saying it was protecting Russians living abroad. Now, both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have strengthened political, economic and military ties with Moscow.
Similarly, the Kremlin subsidizes Moldova's separatist province of Trans-Dniester with cheap gas, funds pro-Russian youth movements, and pays poor pensioners a monthly $10 addition to their pensions of $60 to $70.
"For Trans-Dniester, Russia is like the closest and dearest person - it's like our motherland," said Alyona Arshinova, 23, a new Russian citizen and activist with a youth group sponsored by pro-Kremlin lawmakers in Russia. Posters of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin adorn her college dormitory room.
About a fourth of Trans-Dniester's 550,000 people have already received Russian citizenship. And Trans-Dniester president Igor Smirnov, who has ruled this sliver of land since 1991, makes no secret that he wants the region to become part of Russia, even though the two don't share a border.
Another flash point is Estonia, a tiny Baltic nation of 1.3 million that prides itself on its tech-savvy population and Scandinavian efficiency. The Russian Embassy in the capital of Tallinn said about 3,700 passports were issued in the 12 months before Oct. 30, 2008 - more than three times the number during the same period a year earlier.
This is partly because Estonia, a member of the European Union and NATO, has made clear it's nervous about its large ethnic Russian population. Denied automatic citizenship after Estonia's independence in 1991, many of these Russians are so-called "noncitizens" who must pass a language exam before receiving an Estonian passport.
A lot don't bother, due to the time and expense of studying the grammatically complex Estonian language. For them, a Russian passport is just as enticing, if not more so. Immigration numbers show more than 96,200 Russian citizens and 111,700 noncitizens living in Estonia.
Residents of Narva, a predominantly ethnic Russian city in northeastern Estonia, said that if they hold a Russian passport and an Estonian noncitizen's passport, they can travel from Lisbon, Portugal, to Vladivostok without a visa.
"I finally made up my mind - I'm going to get Russian citizenship," said Vitaly Shkola, 47, an Estonian noncitizen. Russians with Estonian passports are considered "second-class citizens," he said.
For some the choice of citizenship boils down to economics. Vasily Kaidalov, 21, applied for a Russian passport because he can earn more working in Russia than in his destitute hometown.
In Ukraine, a country of 46 million people the size of France, officials claim Russia is rapidly distributing passports in the Crimea peninsula, the location of a major Russian naval base. The Crimea was long a jewel in the Russian imperial crown, but was given to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev in the 1950s. Many influential Russian politicians, such as Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov, believe Khrushchev's decision was illegal and Russia is duty-bound to repossess Crimea.
Mustafa Dzhemilev, a member of Ukraine's parliament from the Crimean peninsula, estimated that about 200,000 people - or nearly every 10th resident - has dual Russian-Ukrainian citizenship, although it is prohibited by law.
In Ukraine Russia is "trying to do the same thing they did with Abkhazia and South Ossetia - establish legal grounds, at least in the Russian legal system, for intervention, whether that be economic, political or military," said Peter Zeihan, vice president of analysis at Stratfor, an international intelligence and analysis company.
Many remain convinced that Russia's true motive in handing out passports outside its borders has to do with politics and power.
"If there are some 200,000 Russian citizens living in Estonia, Russia will have the basis to intervene," said Sergei Stepanov, an ethnic Russian resident of Narva and noncitizen. "Who will stop them?"



Source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/22/MN6H15VC8K.DTL&type=printable

[BMUS]

If Russians can't re-produce fast enough for an army, find them elsewhere at the near abroad.

Source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/22/MN6H15VC8K.DTL&type=printable
Smart move by the ruskies.
Seems like a new trend;
http://www.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE51502U20090206?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

[TakeIt]

Funny article. For example in Ukraine it is prohibited to have dual citisenship. Why distribute illegal documents within country facing danger of uncovering with possible world-wide scandal, when over 2,5 million ukrainian citisens are working in Russia?

[Ordie]

If Stalin (a Georgian) hadn't purged the Soviet population into Gulags, Russia would not have a population crisis today.

[TakeIt]

If Stalin (a Georgian) hadn't purged the Soviet population into Gulags, Russia would not have a population crisis today.:cantbeli: Wow, just wow.

[sepheronx]

If Stalin (a Georgian) hadn't purged the Soviet population into Gulags, Russia would not have a population crisis today.
Whatever dude, every western European nation is facing a population and birth rate crisis. Not just Russia.

[AlfredoTP]

Spain is doing the same, and not just recently. Children and grandchildren, etc. of spanish emigrants receive the spanish passport. I personally think it's not a big deal, as you are from where you originally are (or your family in that case), and you are from where you are born, etc., if you know, what I mean. So, what is the big deal?
BTW, every country likes to see his population growing=wealth!

























:cantbeli:

[1curious]

Spain is doing the same, and not just recently. Children and grandchildren, etc. of spanish emigrants receive the spanish passport. I personally think it's not a big deal, as you are from where you originally are (or your family in that case), and you are from where you are born, etc., if you know, what I mean. So, what is the big deal?
BTW, every country likes to see his population growing=wealth!

An interesting post and thanks for bringing it up. I never heard this from anyone here (the Spanish-speaking community of NYC).

Anyways, there is a hard to ignore fact: many former SU republics (for good or bad reason) don't accept the Russians as their natural citizens - even if they were born there or even if their children were born there (a 2nd generation as we say in the US). I have researched the issue wrt Estonia. I was surprised to find out that up to 40% of Estonian Russians born in Estonia to Estonian Russian (also born in Estonia) are officially stateless.

Can you blame the Ruusian people for seeking Russian citizenship after taht? Is it really Russia's problem only?

This is very hard to fathom (in terms of American understanding - you're an American if born here) and blame on Russia exclusively.

[AlfredoTP]

[quote=1curious;3943075]An interesting post and thanks for bringing it up. I never heard this from anyone here (the Spanish-speaking community of NYC).

I think it's because it was done mainly in Argentina, Venezuela, and Colombia, so far, with a few only of other countries, but don't know why, maybe because there are a lot more of natural borns, whose both parents a spanish emigrants than somewhere else. But I read they are planning to extending it to most, if not all, spanish speaking countries or at least with spanish heritage, whose nationals have at least spanish(iberian) parents.

[Meatwad]

If Stalin (a Georgian) hadn't purged the Soviet population into Gulags, Russia would not have a population crisis today.

Actually if you look at the birthrate figures it all pretty much has to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the economic crises afterwards, resulting in mass emmigration from Russia as well. It happened not only to Russia either but many other former SSR states. We are now seeing the same thing in many Western countries today (barring immigration).

So no Stalin although a son of a bitch really had nothing to do with it.

[Toolhead]

I want one :(

[Dercius]

Funny article. For example in Ukraine it is prohibited to have dual citisenship. Why distribute illegal documents within country facing danger of uncovering with possible world-wide scandal, when over 2,5 million ukrainian citisens are working in Russia?


Wow, very democratic. Even for an orange goverment rofl

Seriously, I dont blame Russians for getting their citizenship, in lots of ex-SU new republics they are just 2nd class citizens (stateless, not same civil rights). Its not russia´s fault, its their own goverments fault, instead of integrating them and make them been loyal citizens you just alienate them and put them against you. Well, it was clear that it was going to fireback. Just my opinion

[Zalmoxes]

Good God, are u people blind? Russia is handing out passports so that when a country such as Moldova or Ukraine arrests some passport holding Russians for whatever reason, good old Russia moves in 10,000 tanks into that country to protect its citizens. That IS ALL that this is about.

[NineLine]

Good God, are u people blind? Russia is handing out passports so that when a country such as Moldova or Ukraine arrests some passport holding Russians for whatever reason, good old Russia moves in 10,000 tanks into that country to protect its citizens. That IS ALL that this is about.


I kinda doubt that...maybe though who knows..

Might as well start handing out American passports to Canadians...lol

[zg18]

Good God, are u people blind? Russia is handing out passports so that when a country such as Moldova or Ukraine arrests some passport holding Russians for whatever reason, good old Russia moves in 10,000 tanks into that country to protect its citizens. That IS ALL that this is about.

Yes ,well the first country that experienced Russian "passport" strategy , Georgia, actually killed 15 Russian soldiers while shelling their base, but if Cuba would kill 15 soldiers while shelling Guantanamo i'm sure USA woudn't do sh*t :roll:

[Zalmoxes]

Just observe. Russians don't change colors, their lies might get a bit better but not their actions.

[zg18]

Just observe. Russians don't change colors, their lies might get a bit better but not their actions.

I'm not interested in your opinion about Russians ,i'm stating the fact that Georgian arty shelled Russian base deliberately as a part of their military operation and killed 15 Russian soldiers practically in their beds, Georgians declared war on Russians not other way around.And, i will repeat again, if Cubans would kill 15 US soliders in their beds in Guantanamo base, US would not react?

[Zalmoxes]

I'm not interested in your opinion about Russians ,i'm stating the fact that Georgian arty shelled Russian base deliberately as a part of their military operation and killed 15 Russian soldiers practically in their beds, Georgians declared war on Russians not other way around.And, i will repeat again, if Cubans would kill 15 US soliders in their beds in Guantanamo base, US would not react?

We're talking about the reason Russia is issuing passports to outsiders, not about Georgia. And Georgia can do what it wants with its land but next time I suggest that they be better prepared.

[Xaito]

I kinda doubt that...
I doubt that as well.
Looks like normal post Soviet bureaucracy to me.
When Germany allowed their "Aussiedler" to immigrate to Germany it wasn't over in a year or two - the migrating process started in 1950 and probably still goes on...
The former Soviet people who get Russian citizenships nowadays most probably have a legitimate right to get one.

[zg18]

We're talking about the reason Russia is issuing passports to outsiders, not about Georgia. And Georgia can do what it wants with its land but next time I suggest that they be better prepared.

Did you know that between 1992-1996 all citizens of former Soviet Union could get Russian passport without a problem , including Georgians,and a lot of them did, over one million of them is living in Russia, so all "passport" strategy theory is ridicules.

[TR1]

zg18, why waste your time replying to a troll?

[GazB]

This is very hard to fathom (in terms of American understanding - you're an American if born here) and blame on Russia exclusively.

If America did the same and required an English test for citizenship I wonder what the response would be.I remember a US documentary on Cuba and the leader of the Cuban community in Florida who had lived in exile in the US for 20 or 30 years could not speak english.


If Stalin (a Georgian) hadn't purged the Soviet population into Gulags, Russia would not have a population crisis today.

Most western countries are suffering population decline and aging population problems.


Good God, are u people blind? Russia is handing out passports so that when a country such as Moldova or Ukraine arrests some passport holding Russians for whatever reason, good old Russia moves in 10,000 tanks into that country to protect its citizens. That IS ALL that this is about.

Georgia, a tiny, poorly defended country on Russias border attacked and killed Russian peacekeepers who were on a UN mission. Russia did not overthrow the Georgian government or take over all of Georgia and try a bit of regime change. If they are not going to invade and regime change Georgia what makes you think they will try it on with a much larger country like the Ukraine, or the Baltic republics... you know the Baltic republics... when their leaders stand in front of NATO flags and EU flags it is because these baltic countries are actually part of NATO and the EU... unlike Georgia which isn't anything.


We're talking about the reason Russia is issuing passports to outsiders, not about Georgia. And Georgia can do what it wants with its land but next time I suggest that they be better prepared.

So Georgia is above international law? Those Russians were on a peacekeeping mission in disputed territory. A better equivelent would be if the Serbs had shelled Kosovo and started invading to force NATO out. It has a UNSC resolution to show Kosovo is Serbian land which is more than what Georgia has to show Abkhazia and South Ossetia are Georgian.

[Trouble]

Yes ,well the first country that experienced Russian "passport" strategy , Georgia, actually killed 15 Russian soldiers while shelling their base, but if Cuba would kill 15 soldiers while shelling Guantanamo i'm sure USA woudn't do sh*t :roll:

This is not new. The Germans did this proceeding WW2. And yes the Russians did this prior to the Russo -Georgian war in Aug 2008, and have been doing it in Ukraine for the last few months.

The real reason for all of this is Russia wants to control the Caspian Oil supply and with it control of Europe. That is why Ukraine, Azerbaijan among others will be pressured and threatened and if need be invaded. "to protect the lives of Russian Citizens", cough, where have we heard the like before?


I could be very wrong, but that is my take on what is happening.

[TakeIt]

This is not new. The Germans did this proceeding WW2. And yes the Russians did this prior to the Russo -Georgian war in Aug 2008, and have been doing it in Ukraine for the last few months.No. So far not a single russian passport that were "distributed" in Ukraine surfaced and not a single person confirmed anything even loosely related. So this statement is pure BS.


The real reason for all of this is Russia wants to control the Caspian Oil supply and with it control of Europe. Whoa, "man the harpoons"?


That is why Ukraine, Azerbaijan among others will be pressured and threatened and if need be invaded. "to protect the lives of Russian Citizens"Care to point any specific russian statements?


cough, where have we heard the like before? I don't know, maybe when they were killed?


I could be very wrong, Yes you are.

[1curious]

This is not new. The Germans did this proceeding WW2. And yes the Russians did this prior to the Russo -Georgian war in Aug 2008, and have been doing it in Ukraine for the last few months.

And we, Americans, did it..many times...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/20/newsid_4054000/4054951.stm

"General Noriega's reckless threats and attacks upon Americans in Panama created an imminent danger to the 35,000 American citizens in Panama. As President, I have no higher obligation than to safeguard the lives of American citizens," President Bush added

If you can not see that the issue of Russian passports is deeper and more complicated than the spinning served by some media, it's time to do some research.

[Zalmoxes]

zg18, why waste your time replying to a troll?

We can certainly expect an open and clearly thought out statement from you, right?

[GazB]

The real reason for all of this is Russia wants to control the Caspian Oil supply and with it control of Europe.

So when do they invade Iran?

If they actually wanted to control Caspian Oil then why no use the western example of regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan, and get all high and mighty about Georgia being an unfit state with its blatant attack on Russian troops on a UN mission and take over all of Georgia and put in their own puppet government. Then they would control the pipelines in Georgia that they currently have no control over. Or do you mean control of Caspian sea oil without actually controlling all the oil pipelines from the Caspian sea?

[Lokos]

There are a lot of dipsticks in this thread. Any time the subject of Russia rears its head, they gather like flies...

L.

[asch]

We can certainly expect an open and clearly thought out statement from you, right?
surely no, ze Russkies never change their colors.
:cantbeli:

ur a funny, troll. i will get you in my zoo when we, evil barbarians, invade Romania.

[Flamming_Python]

I love how Germany and Israel give passports to whomever wants them in the former-USSR and take the best talent for themselves. When Russia gives passports to those who apply and meet the requirements; it gets blamed.

The reason Russia went to war with Georgia was IMHO a lot more to do with the killing of the Russian peacekeepers, and the need to keep South Ossetia as a Russian outpost/ally, than with the issue of citizenship. Otherwise Russia would have to declare war on Hamas and Hezbollah every time Israel fights a war.

[Snoshi]

Flaming. The only problem i see in your analogy is that Germany and Israel were and still are handing out passports, but most the people who get the passport move to the respective country.. While people who get Russian passports usually stay in the country that they live in and that creates problems.

[FLIPO]

Good God, are u people blind? Russia is handing out passports so that when a country such as Moldova or Ukraine arrests some passport holding Russians for whatever reason, good old Russia moves in 10,000 tanks into that country to protect its citizens. That IS ALL that this is about.


are you from the new CIA's "information war" team ? )))))

[Flamming_Python]

If Stalin (a Georgian) hadn't purged the Soviet population into Gulags, Russia would not have a population crisis today.

Russia's population crisis, as well as Europe's one and most such crisis' in general are not caused by an absolute reduction of the population; but rather an ongoing situation where the birth rate does not outnumber the death rate sufficiently.

In Russia's case, the ethnic Russian population had this problem since the 60's, taking a turn to the worse in 90's. It has nothing to do with Stalin.


Flaming. The only problem i see in your analogy is that Germany and Israel were and still are handing out passports, but most the people who get the passport move to the respective country.. While people who get Russian passports usually stay in the country that they live in and that creates problems.

Well that's true I'll give you that. Although it should be remembered that many Israeli and German citizens of Soviet origin are nowadays either working in Russia or go back there regularly for business or recreation; albeit in fewer numbers and in less concentrations over a particular geographic area.

[TakeIt]

In Russia's case, the ethnic Russian population had this problem since the 60's, taking a turn to the worse in 90's.
Not exactly. According to population census in 1959 there were 114113579 ethnic russians in SU(97863579 in RSFSR), 1970 - 129015140/107747630, 1979 - 137397089/113521881, 1989 - 145155489/119865946.


It has nothing to do with Stalin. Wait till they change their line from "Stalin purged" to "Stalin bred people".

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Where can I get me one of them russky passports?

[Xaito]

Where can I get me one of them russky passports?

marry a Russian chick and ask at the Russian embassy in Berlin.
Or in some other cities maybe some Russian travel agencies or other establishments who might offer help filling out the documents and send them with courier to the embassy.
Depending on Russian law regarding your home country and the laws of your country you might have to give up your other citizenship though.

Good luck.

[MZKT]

If Stalin (a Georgian) hadn't purged the Soviet population into Gulags, Russia would not have a population crisis today.

Wow. Some have really distortert views about history, timeline and population dynamics.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

you might have to give up your other citizenship though.

Good luck.Thanks but no thanks. You are where you are born, that's something that will never leave you and the reason I can understand any patriot, no matter how idiotic he or she may sometimes be. I too am perfectly capable of being completely idiotic in matters of country.

I'll just pretend every now and then to be temporary Russian with vodka, dried fish and horrishy sidim. That's enough for me.. :)

[dacanadianbomb]

Possibly getting a pass might force your into conscription :-)

[Xaito]

Thanks but no thanks. You are where you are born, that's something that will never leave you and the reason I can understand any patriot, no matter how idiotic he or she may sometimes be. I too am perfectly capable of being completely idiotic in matters of country.

I'll just pretend every now and then to be temporary Russian with vodka, dried fish and horrishy sidim. That's enough for me..
Fair enough.
I'm also very happy to still have my Russian citizenship.


Possibly getting a pass might force your into conscription
Only if you plan to make Russia your permanent place of residence.
They won't bother you while you're living abroad.

[Ordie]

What are the economic and educational benefits in having a Russian Passport? I know that an EU passports entitles anyone to work, property and education within the EU.

[sepheronx]

What are the economic and educational benefits in having a Russian Passport? I know that an EU passports entitles anyone to work, property and education within the EU.
My guess would be the same thing?

[-Julik- 4.GdKp]

delete..........

[Ordie]

My guess would be the same thing?

I wonder if the goal is to entice Russians living abroad (and within the Balitic and Central Asian states) to return and settle in Russia? For those that are living within the Baltic States, I wonder if they have a dual citizenship policy or not to allow Russian/EU citizenship?

[Xaito]

What are the economic and educational benefits in having a Russian Passport? I know that an EU passports entitles anyone to work, property and education within the EU.

none as long as you're living abroad and are not pensionable etc.
If you are pensionable you'll get money.

[Ordie]

rofl
It seems you have no idea about the EU

I'm trying to get Italian Citizenship through my grandfather. Having an EU passport at least gives me a plan "B", shorter line at the airport and travel into Cuba.