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View Full Version : Pentagon to punish GI's who spoke out on TV



Smoothie104
07-19-2003, 01:48 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/07/18/MN248299.DTL


Fallujah, Iraq -- Morale is dipping pretty low among U.S. soldiers as they stew in Iraq's broiling heat, get shot at by an increasingly hostile population and get repeated orders to extend their tours of duty.

Ask any grunt standing guard on a 115-degree day what he or she thinks of the open-ended Iraq occupation, and you'll get an earful of colorful complaints.

But going public isn't always easy, as soldiers of the Army's Second Brigade, Third Infantry Division found out after "Good Morning America" aired their complaints.

The brigade's soldiers received word this week from the Pentagon that it was extending their stay, with a vague promise to send them home by September if the security situation allows. They've been away from home since September, and this week's announcement was the third time their mission has been extended.

It was bad news for the division's 12,000 homesick soldiers, who were at the forefront of the force that overthrew Saddam Hussein's government and moved into Baghdad in early April.

On Wednesday morning, when the ABC news show reported from Fallujah, where the division is based, the troops gave the reporters an earful. One soldier said he felt like he'd been "kicked in the guts, slapped in the face." Another demanded that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld quit.

The retaliation from Washington was swift.


CAREERS OVER FOR SOME
"It was the end of the world," said one officer Thursday. "It went all the way up to President Bush and back down again on top of us. At least six of us here will lose our careers."

First lesson for the troops, it seemed: Don't ever talk to the media "on the record" -- that is, with your name attached -- unless you're giving the sort of chin-forward, everything's-great message the Pentagon loves to hear.

Only two days before the ABC show, similarly bitter sentiments -- with no names attached -- were voiced in an anonymous e-mail circulating around the Internet, allegedly from "the soldiers of the Second Brigade, Third ID."

"Our morale is not high or even low," the letter said. "Our morale is nonexistent. We have been told twice that we were going home, and twice we have received a 'stop' movement to stay in Iraq."

The message, whose authenticity could not be confirmed, concluded: "Our men and women deserve to be treated like the heroes they are, not like farm animals. Our men and women deserve to see their loved ones again and deserve to come home."

After this one-two punch, it was perhaps natural that on Thursday, the same troops and officers who had been garrulous and outspoken in previous visits were quiet, and most declined to speak on the record. During a visit to Fallujah, a small city about 30 miles west of Baghdad, military officials expressed intense chagrin about the bad publicity. And they slammed the ABC reporters for focusing on the soldiers' criticism of Rumsfeld, Bush and other officials and implying that they are unwilling to carry out their mission.


COMPLAINTS CALLED ROUTINE
"Soldiers have bitched since the beginning of time," said Capt. James Brownlee, the public affairs officer for the Second Brigade. "That's part of being a soldier. They bitch. But what does 'bad morale' really mean? That they're not combat-ready or loyal? Nobody here fits that definition."

The nervousness of the brass has a venerable history. It has long been a practice in American democracy that the military do not criticize the nation's civilian leaders, as Gen. Douglas MacArthur found out in 1951, when he criticized President Harry Truman's Korean War strategy -- and was promptly fired.

Yet several U.S. officers said privately that troop morale is indeed low. "The problem is not the heat," said one high-ranking officer. "Soldiers get used to that. The problem is getting orders to go home, so your wife gets all psyched about it, then getting them reversed, and then having the same process two more times."

In Baghdad, average soldiers from other Army brigades are eager to spill similar complaints.

"I'm not sure people in Washington really know what it's like here," said Corp. Todd Burchard as he stood on a street corner, sweating profusely and looking bored. "We'll keep doing our jobs as best as anyone can, but we shouldn't have to still be here in the first place."

Nearby, Pfc. Jason Ring stood next to his Humvee. "We liberated Iraq. Now the people here don't want us here, and guess what? We don't want to be here either," he said. "So why are we still here? Why don't they bring us home?"

rob
07-19-2003, 03:41 AM
i can understand if these people where drafted into the army but they volentarly when in. they need to think about the concicuences of their choices before they make them. what did they expect they get past basic and twirl their thumbs for the next three years. that is my opinion, but i do feel a lot of the troops deserve a break of such. they more earned it.

duck
07-19-2003, 04:47 AM
IMHO this makes President Bush seem like an "ass-clown". A guy who did not have the guts to go to Vietnam and only ever entered the national guard to be spared exactly the same experiences that the 3rd ID soldiers are now going through. Even if his advisors staged that carrier landing to create the image of a warrior President, the same stooges are now ready to sacrifice several families incomes and lives for his re-election. I think both the President and Mr. Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz should move their offices to downtown Bagdad as long as the troops are there.

GLax
07-19-2003, 11:33 AM
maybe a solution to this problem is to give these troops a little better place to live, i'm not talking 4 star hotels either, i'm talking about simple things like somewhere to wash their uniforms, take a shower once and awhile and get mail... if u read here http://www.hackworth.com/ or here http://www.sftt.org/, they have posted several letters from Soldiers AND Marines complaining about the awful living conditions that havnt really changed since combat has ended, the only real change is that combat has ended, it would probably also help if the regular GI didnt have the fact that his Senior COs (Col. on up), are living in Sadaams cushy air conditioned palaces rubbed in his face. i've received mail from one of my friends, a 3ID guy who says that if things dont appear to be getting better and their appeals from their Lieutenants and Captains are going unheard, so for the troops to complain to somebody who will listen doesnt seem so unreasonable...

martinexsquaddie
07-20-2003, 04:15 AM
lets improve morale I know severe punishments for anyone who whines that will work :D.
End someones career over this and you can see them poping up on ABC news full of Bile. The media could milk this one for ages :lol: . Better off sucking it p and see what practical measures you can take to make the lads lives better off.

Trident-za
07-20-2003, 07:35 AM
I can understand the "don't complain to the media" thing. I also agree that soldiers spend time away from home - its tough, but thats the job. It's not a job that has to be done without complaints, though. Soldiers bitch - its a time-honored tradition.

The government response to this whole thing is trully amazing, and a bit childish. It basically is all about political image, isn't it? Not about right/wrong, or even about talking to the media.

duck
07-20-2003, 08:05 AM
Well, it's quite obvious. If you start to think about the public speeches President Bush has given in the past six months or so, the vast majority have been held either at military installations or defense contractors. With carefully planned pictures of applauding soldiers, airmen and sailors and the odd B-2 or F-18. All culminating on May 1st when the "soldier among soldiers" was seen landing on a carrier in a pilot's combat fatigue, as if saying: "Look, I am one of you, LT Dubya." Of course any member of the military disturbing this harmonic picture has to be punished, the re-election of Bush jr. and the career of the neo-cons in Pentagon is at stake.

Splinter26
07-20-2003, 08:25 AM
I think what they should do is, put Bush and Rumsfeld in a box, and send them over to Iraq, so our troops can give them some ass WHOOP they honorably earned for their lies. By the way, who's voting for Bush in re-elections? I know I'm not.

warchild1/27scout
07-20-2003, 09:40 AM
when i was in the army i told my plt sarg. we needed some time to go and vote one day during the pres. elections he said,"YOU DON'T NEED TO VOTE,WHOEVER THE PRESIDENT IS YOU GOT TO DO WHAT HE SAYS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT."i think his point was we should'nt worry our simple heads over politics and get the orders and do them. and i just wanted to say the shot the guy earier made on pres. bush really was out of line. hey, the guys president now get over it and if you're in the military shut up and do what he says.i have been in situations where i wanted to say something and declined to do so and when i got back i was like "im glad i did'nt open my big mouth i would have been ashamed ".i think when these troops get back and look in they will see a different perspective.

vryhpyammoadded
07-20-2003, 12:51 PM
It is usually indicative of inexperienced leadership somewhere close up the chain when troops are angry enough to take a chance at mouthing off to the press this way. The soldiers knew that it might just be possible for the **** to roll back down hill on there command, that’s why they did it.

It’s not the smartest move and rarely works but if moral is low enough and a soldier doesn’t care about punishment anymore then dragging down the people who cause him pain is all there’s left to enjoy.

The Army will investigate, the incompetent’s involved will be rewarded and everyone else punished with plenty of misery to go around. Who knows, maybe the soldiers will get lucky and the shake up will fix whatever problem they have. I doubt it though.