Special Forces in Canadian Military?

[foofighter]

Can any Canadians currently serving in our Military that can tell me what unit may be considered the closet thing to special forces? I know about JT2, I am not talking about that, I am looking for some sort or airborne or other regiment that does what can be considered close to the US special forces, i.e. the toughest or most demanding physically and psychologically...I know about the disband of the airborne regiment in '92, but I know there are something close to it, although our Military doesn't promote it or push it....

[East]

there are jump companies in each regiment(fully para qualified as far as i know). plus we have excellent sniper teams. but as far as i know thats it... im not serving in the military though, just read alot, and my dads in the military.

[scm77]

JTF2 is the closest thing to US special forces we have. And they are quite close indeed. The JTF2 training lasts four 7 months, and is obviously quite demanding both physically and psychologically.

The only other thing would be the Para companies. But thats not much like US Special forces.

JTF2 kicks ass! woot

[[AFSOC]]

Well...

Canadian Snipers are pretty much considered Special Forces in the Canadian Forces. Half the time you'll ever see a Canadian sniper on Tv his face his blurred out.

They have a 10 week training which is probaly one of hardest out there. All Canadian snipers are Recce qualified,mountaineer etc.

Also Canadian Navy UDT's would also be considered Special Forces, there training is pretty intense cuz of the lack of sleep they get in a 5 day training coarse i believe. I saw this on that show on OLN Truth Duty Valor. Whats annoying about this is that if you goto the Canadian Navy site there's nuthing about these teams

Then there;s JTF2 of coarse...

Wow 7 months...must be crazyyyyy how long is SEAL training and RANGER?

[Brozozo]

7 months? Source? The official JTF-2 doesn't give any specifics on the duration of training so I'm curious as to how that figure was determined...

[moughoun]

7 month's seem's a relly short time, here you'd only just be finishing the basic skill's course and then you have another year of speciality training

[memphiz]

RCMP Hostage Rescue Teams are pretty bad ass, and Im sure RCMP is trained in counter terrorism.

[Mongrel]

Join up, and find out what they are about, other then that everything you see in print is going to be speculation, and that's the way it should be. :D

BTW:Pathfinders, Para troops, and Snipers are considered to be Elite forces, and they practive "conventianal warfare".

JTF2 is special forces, and do NOT practice "conventional warfare"
Or so I'm told.

Cheers!
M.

[foofighter]

Ok so I read the book JTF2 and Shadow Wars by David Pugliese, I guess I am looking for info on how hard is the infantry training and where will I be placed if I do it, I am tossing around the idea of MP so I can enter into intelligence or go infantry so I can learn hardcore fighting, but I don't want to be regular army, I don't want to be a peacekeeper, I want to see action? Anyone know what route to take?
;)

[Brozozo]

BTW:Pathfinders, Para troops, and Snipers are considered to be Elite forces, and they practive "conventianal warfare".

JTF2 is special forces, and do NOT practice "conventional warfare"
Or so I'm told

There is no literature officialy outlining the classification of specific CF units. Pathfinders, Para's and snipers are considered to be elite as they recieve training above and beyond what a regular PPCLI, RCR or Van-Doo infantryman would recieve. If Canada had a command such as USSOCOM I don't think paras, pathfinders and snipers would fall under that command as JTF-2 and perhaps any other even more secretive units would.

[foofighter]

Can you elaborate on Pathfinders Mongrel?

[Brozozo]

Ok so I read the book JTF2 and Shadow Wars by David Pugliese, I guess I am looking for info on how hard is the infantry training and where will I be placed if I do it, I am tossing around the idea of MP so I can enter into intelligence or go infantry so I can learn hardcore fighting, but I don't want to be regular army, I don't want to be a peacekeeper, I want to see action? Anyone know what route to take?
;)

Piss and vinegar, heh? If you don't want to police the Balkans or A-Stan your best bet is the JTF-2. But in any other trade you won't see "action"...precious few Canadian soldiers have fired their weapons in anger. The MPs is a tough trade to get into in the CF, so is Intel...being an MP won't necessarily hel[ you cross over into Intel. As for learning hardcore fighting...you'll learn that in addition to the other hardcore bull**** you don't want to do like folding and packing wet mod tents...it's not all blood, guts and glory like in the movies.

[Brozozo]

Can you elaborate on Pathfinders Mongrel?

Pathfinders are specially trained para's that jump in ahead of the main force and designate LZs...among other tasks.

[foofighter]

Ok so I guess I will have to go start a war! LOL, just kidding, actually I know its not like the movies, I am actually over 30 so I have no illusions, just want to make the right moves so I don't end up moving old equipment around some base for the next 10-20 years...lol, thanks for the input everybody...

[foofighter]

Are you in the forces Brozozo?

[ArmedPacifist]

Well, I'll squash the rumours now, all our regular force (and reserve force) combat units could be considered special forces, they have extensive training, and since we don't have all the flashy gizmo's like other countries militaries, we train harder to make up for it.

But if you want the simple answer, JTF-2 is probably the best one.

Oh yeah and SCM77, are you currently affiliated with JTF-2?

[Brozozo]

moving old equipment around some base for the next 10-20 years

What are you saying, thats the best part! Would you rather being carrying it?

[Secret Squirrel]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dcds/units/jtf2/pages/about_e.asp

Just a little blurb regarding JTF-2.

[One?]

Oh yeah and SCM77, are you currently affiliated with JTF-2?


he is with 1st Airborne 3CDO. :bash:

[foofighter]

Thanks ArmedPacifist thats the straight-up answer I was looking for, I had heard it that way before, just wanted to hear some other opinions...

[Mongrel]

Brozozos wrote:
"Pathfinders are specially trained para's that jump in ahead of the main force and designate LZs...among other tasks."

M: Yes that is what Pathfinders are, and the ones I have met are a great bunch.

Foofighter wrote: "I don't want to be a peacekeeper, I want to see action? Anyone know what route to take? "

M: Foofighter you might be in the wrong country.

Also the snippets that I have seen of the basic req' for physical fitness for the elite troops are prob' better then our Olyimpic atheltes IMHO.

Don't forget this is real life not a Video game..no save/replay option. Anyone can pull a trigger, but very few can walk the line that our peacekeepers do. So don't be knocking them. :|

Cheers!
M.

[Brozozo]

all our regular force (and reserve force) combat units could be considered special forces, they have extensive training

I wouldn't go that far...many reserve units fill their ranks with guts and glory types who are in just so they can tell their friends they're some killer Rambo types. The regs has its fair share of retards too (mostly in the combat support trades but inf, arty, armour has their share too). It's not correct to think that the CF is composed of super-soldiers because casualties are almost non-existant (not much shooting in Kabul, Haiti and Bosnia). Sure the CF is skilled but let's not frget that it hasn't been involved in large scale combat since Korea in the early 50's.

[ArmedPacifist]

Oh yeah and SCM77, are you currently affiliated with JTF-2?


he is with 1st Airborne 3CDO. :bash:

No ****, I knew he was with something cause he knows a lot about the CF and stuff, he knows it better than me even.

Probably a BTDT.

[Brozozo]

he is with 1st Airborne 3CDO

Are you talking bout the CAR?

[ArmedPacifist]

he is with 1st Airborne 3CDO

Are you talking bout the CAR?

What possibly gave you that idea? :roll:

[Brozozo]

Perhaps he was with the 3CDO?

[foofighter]

Don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for peacekeepers, wrote a paper in University on Rapid reaction forces and the UN, alot about our peacekeepers...I just have my motives....

[Brozozo]

Don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for peacekeepers, wrote a paper in University on Rapid reaction forces and the UN, alot about our peacekeepers...I just have my motives....

True, many people are disenchanted at the idea of becoming cops instead of warriors upon joining the CF. Just the way it is...

[Mongrel]

Well Foo if yah want it bad enogh then go for it, and be ready to work hard.
And also develop alot of patience for red tape, and administrative BS etc.

In case you haven't found it allready I dug up (googled) this site for yah:
http://army.ca/forums/

A trip or phone call to a recruiters office will prob' answer your questions.

Cheers!
M. :D

[Brozozo]

develop alot of patience for red tape, and administrative BS

Yes Yes and Yes! Politics is the name of the game, learn to play it well!

[[AFSOC]]

7 months? Source? The official JTF-2 doesn't give any specifics on the duration of training so I'm curious as to how that figure was determined...

On the training video...on there information site

[Sir Zach of R.]

If you want action you better become a US citizen and join the Rangers (No, not the airsoft team.) :lol:

[ArmedPacifist]

If you want action you better become a US citizen and join the Rangers (No, not the airsoft team.) :lol:

Or not.

[Bombtrack]

If you want action you better become a US citizen and join the Rangers (No, not the airsoft team.) :lol:

Or not.

He's right though, based on the sort of "hardcore fighting action" foofighter wants

[ArmedPacifist]

He's never right, it's a science.

[Mongrel]

Yah but somewhere out in a hostile zone fighting another countries war he would suddenly think of how much he missed Tim Hortons Coffie, and Donuts, and that would be it.
;)
Cheers!
M.

[foofighter]

Thanks for all the input, thought of going South of the Border, but love my Country to much to do that, went to school down there that was enough for me...I will figure it out, can't wait, should be in Late August early September.

[memphiz]

Yah but somewhere out in a hostile zone fighting another countries war he would suddenly think of how much he missed Tim Hortons Coffie, and Donuts, and that would be it.
;)
Cheers!
M.
I thought they delivered Tims coffee and doughnuts to A-stan?

[Mongrel]

I thought they delivered Tims coffee and doughnuts to A-stan?

Yah but not the cute girls behind the counter. :D
Also he was talking about joining the US forces.

Cheers!
M.

[memphiz]

I thought they delivered Tims coffee and doughnuts to A-stan?

Yah but not the cute girls behind the counter. :D
Also he was talking about joining the US forces.

Cheers!
M.
Ah I got ya...

[simple jumper]

Pathfinders are basically Airbroen Recce, but the CF hasnt run the course in 2 years cause there aretn enough volunteers and some wh odo arent up to it physically, so it's a waste of cash.

Paratroopers (of all 3 reg force inf. regt's) would prolly be classified at tier 3 SF, pathfinders/snipers I'd say tier 2 and JTF2 obviosuly tier 1.

It's just an estimate, since we dont have Rangers, etc. Well we have Canadian Rangers but they're not like US Rangers. lol :lol:

[Lone Predator]

the closest we used to have were the airborne of course
they were our 'commandos' which are basically the equivilant of US SF
they named diffrent battle groups or platoons or whatever Commando 1 though something.

"On 13 December, the first troops from the battle group, 2 Commando, flew into Baledogle to secure the airbase there. On December 28, the remainder of the battle group began arriving in Mogadishu. Meanwhile, 2 Commando, along with elements of the US 10 Mountain Division and the US Special Forces secured the airfield at Beled Weyne."

now, these days, I assume regular SF falls on the heads of our parachute troopers, and recon groups within the 3 infantry regiments, while our elite SF are of course the JTF-2 and other groups civi's don't have access to or knowledge of.

[Brozozo]

the closest we used to have were the airborne of course
they were our 'commandos' which are basically the equivilant of US SF
they named diffrent battle groups or platoons or whatever Commando 1 though something.

"On 13 December, the first troops from the battle group, 2 Commando, flew into Baledogle to secure the airbase there. On December 28, the remainder of the battle group began arriving in Mogadishu. Meanwhile, 2 Commando, along with elements of the US 10 Mountain Division and the US Special Forces secured the airfield at Beled Weyne."

now, these days, I assume regular SF falls on the heads of our parachute troopers, and recon groups within the 3 infantry regiments, while our elite SF are of course the JTF-2 and other groups civi's don't have access to or knowledge of.

:cantbeli: Don't let the name 1/2/3 Commando throw you off. They were elite soldiers but not to the extent of US Special Forces (Green Berets :roll: ). The CAR's abilities were more like those of the 82nd Div or 75th Reg (Rangers) not the SF or Delta.

Nowadays SF capabilities don't necessarily fall on the jump coys of the 3rd battalion of the PPCLI, RCR or Van-Doos as you said. The para's are considered to be more elite than the other regular soldiers in the sense they went through extra training, however, the difference in ability is not astronomical as you implied.

[[AFSOC]]

meh i'd consider the CAR to be more like Green berets, and im sure many American's who were in teh military at the time of the CAR would probaly agree. Plus they wore sexy Tan Berets

When they were still around Canada ranked first in teh Infantry competitions.

You gotta really think about it though, the USA only really has SF units cause of what emerged in VIETNAM. SF units were all formed during Vietnam, Navy SEALs, Green Berets etc.

ok sure during WWII there was Rangers, and units like 1SSF (Devils Brigade), Merill's Maurauders and Rock Raiders...but real SF was formed during 'Nam.

Canada focused more on Peacekeeping during the 60's and 70's so SF wasnt needed.

If you look at other Commonwealth countries...they have pretty much the same amount of SF in there force too...like Australia wit the SASR. They have Commando units too but soo did Canada. Unfortunaly for politics its gone.

Canada only really has JTF2 to be SF....

[scott]

]meh i'd consider the CAR to be more like Green berets, and im sure many American's who were in teh military at the time of the CAR would probaly agree. Plus they wore sexy Tan Berets


tan berets? did i miss something?

maroon berets, tan dress uniforms
http://www.commando.org/gallery/parades

[FRO]

Oh yeah and SCM77, are you currently affiliated with JTF-2?

he is with 1st Airborne 3CDO. :bash:

No ****, I knew he was with something cause he knows a lot about the CF and stuff, he knows it better than me even.

Probably a BTDT.

Umm, I'm sure SCM77 will correct me if I'm wrong, but last I heard from him (03 June 2004) he wasn't old enough to vote, so I don't think he's active military.

[BOB1]

Hey Fro and Armed Pacifist I can't recall any comments that scm77 made that said he was a member of the Armed Forces. I think he was just stating his opinion, albeit unclearly.

[FRO]

Hey Fro and Armed Pacifist I can't recall any comments that scm77 made that said he was a member of the Armed Forces. I think he was just stating his opinion, albeit unclearly.

Hi again BOB1.

You are correct in that SCM77 has never made any such claim, nor would I expect--considering his respect for the Forces--that he would want others to assume he is a member when he is not. I just wanted to clear that up.

From our interaction on the board, I would never expect SCM77 to make a false claim regarding his relationship with the Forces. If he had seen this, I'm sure he would have corrected the post. He is very knowledgable about the Forces and, no doubt, would not want to give anyone a false impression.

Hope I haven't offended, just wanted to keep the record straight. The last thing anyone wants is the label of poser.

[ArmedPacifist]

You guys can't fool me.

[phinfan]

Well, I'll squash the rumours now, all our regular force (and reserve force) combat units could be considered special forces

You wish! rofl

[SFontaine]

I thought they delivered Tims coffee and doughnuts to A-stan?

Yah but not the cute girls behind the counter. :D
Also he was talking about joining the US forces.

Cheers!
M.


Pugnacious? :P

[Pete031]

OK.... out of the 3 Reg Force Infantry Regiments in Canada, One battalion from each is designated light. THe only difference in training between the Battalions (Mech and light) is there methods in getting to a battle. People who are claiming that the light battalions are SOF are right out of er... It is all the same except how you get to the battle. Even the mech battalions Recce assets are light now with the loss of the Coyote to the armoured regiments. The arguement that all Canadian Infantry is like American Rangers can be seen in some lights because of the training each Canadian Infanteer recieves. Canadian Soldiers have to be able to multi task and be trained in a number of different areas because we are so small.
There is talk about making the Light battalions more of an SOF but that has yet to be done, just like plans on making all of the Recce platoons free fall and low level precision parachute qualified.
The only True SF unit in the Canadian military is JTF2 and they are on par with Delta and the Brit SAS. Why? Because they are constantly training with each other. The great thing about the Canadian army is that if you go SF, it is a tasking... once you have had enough or are finished, you are sent back to your original unit. So it greatly increases the knowledge in the conventional units.

[jmorische]

Of course, this is all again in flux with the word that the current CDS is planning a 'Ranger-type" unit to be formed to support JTF-2 ops in the future. It reads like a politically acceptable way to recreate the CAR without people yelling SOMALIA! SOMALIA! SOMALIA! and wrecking a fine idea to increase the combat capability of the CF. Watch and Shoot!

Pete031 good post.

Dileas.

[Pete031]

Roger