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JKD
03-05-2009, 10:12 PM
For GOP: all pain, no gain

By BEN SMITH | 3/5/09 4:20 AM EST


Four months after John McCain’s sweeping defeat, senior Republicans are coming to grips with the fact that the party is still – in stock market terms – looking for the bottom.

Republicans this week are processing two sobering new polls that found the party’s support reduced to a slim one-quarter of Americans. In the absence of a popular elected leader, its most visible figure is a polarizing radio host. Its strategic powerhouse is a still-divisive former House speaker forced from power more than 10 years ago.

And its hopes of demonstrating swift and visible change by pushing people of color to the fore have been dented by the stumbles of the party’s two most prominent non-white leaders, national Chairman Michael Steele and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal.

So perhaps it’s no surprise that many prominent Republicans are forecasting a long winter.

“You think you hit bottom, and it can always go lower,” said Republican pollster Whit Ayres, who said his party’s best hope is that President Barack Obama overreaches. “The Republicans just entered the wilderness – we’re going to wander around there for a little while before coming back stronger than ever.

“I have no idea where the bottom is just like I have no idea where the bottom is on the stock market,” he said.

“It probably gets worse before it gets better, though I’m not sure how much worse it could get,” said Tom Rath, a New Hampshire Republican leader and former state attorney general. “The first chance at redemption is 18, 19 months away, and we’re going to have to gut it out here for a while.”

Another party wise man, Fred Malek, told POLITICO the party now sits at its “nadir” – though he, like others, said its best hope is to wait for the economy to tarnish Obama.

“Our leaders’ arguments are falling on deaf ears today, but they are sound. It’s just a matter of time before this becomes Obama’s recession,” he said.

The gap in trust and popularity is mirrored, prominent Republicans fret, by a vast gap between the parties’ infrastructure. Republicans also fear that they are outmatched by a Democratic publicity and fundraising machine honed in opposition, and on display this week in a successful effort to associate the GOP with radio host Rush Limbaugh. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich is trying to fashion a role as the intellectual driving force of the GOP-in-exile, but he hasn’t held office since the 1990s.

Add in a politically popular and groundbreaking Democratic president in Obama, and even the Republicans’ most practiced brawlers feel the party is flat-footed.

“The Left has put together the most powerful political coalition I’ve ever witnessed,” said former House majority leader Tom DeLay, whose 1994 GOP coalition once might have vied for that honor. “Obama improved upon it in the presidential campaign, but the Republicans are still in denial.”

Added John Weaver, a former McCain aide: “We’re working damn hard to see how fast we can hit rock bottom – we’re allowing the Democrats to completely not only set the national agenda but also set our internal agenda.”

Meanwhile the party’s governors, typically a source of strength for an out-of-power party, are largely overshadowed by Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Some, like Louisiana's Bobby Jindal and South Carolina's Mark Sanford, have inserted themselves into the party's leadership scrum, while others are keeping their focus local and bracing for the storm.

“It’s just a matter of enduring the early days of transformation – it’s never going to be pretty and it’s never going to be fun to watch it play out beyond a pure entertainment level,” Utah’s Jon Huntsman told POLITICO. “We haven’t had a healthy, rigorous discussion about our future in many years, and meanwhile the world has changed. Unless we want to be consigned to minority-party status for a long time, we need to recognize these tectonic shifts happening under our feet.”

Some of the GOP dissatisfaction has focused on new chairman Michael Steele, who has delivered a string of gaffes on television, while not putting much infrastructure in place at the party’s headquarters. Steele criticized Limbaugh as being merely an “entertainer” who makes “ugly” remarks – then said he was sorry two days later.

“He’s like Howard Dean, cubed,” griped one former party official. “People are kind of waiting to be led, and he’s just leading himself into green rooms.”

Ron Kaufman, a top political aide to the first President Bush, said Steele “bit off more than he could chew a little bit. He made a lot of change, perhaps, before he was ready to replace what was there before.”

“He’s trying to do the right thing,” Kaufman added, saying it was “too soon” to give a final judgment on Steele.

The discomfort with Steele is part of a broader complaint about a lack of a national leader, a common condition for an opposition party.

The party’s congressional leadership has shown discipline and focus in offering a near-unanimous rejection of Obama’s stimulus package -- but has not, so far, succeeded in offering a palatable alternative to the popular president’s economic leadership. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found that, by a 48-20 percent margin, Americans believe Democrats will do a better job digging the U.S. out of recession than Republicans.

“It’s unclear what is the ‘Republican stimulus plan,’ ” former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney told POLITICO last week, urging congressional Republicans to come up with clear alternatives to Obama’s policies.

Richard Viguerie, the direct mail pioneer who helped create the modern conservative movement, was more scathing in a press release Wednesday.

"The 'Rushification' of the GOP is the natural and inevitable result of the fact that those who are supposed to provide leadership -- Republican elected officials and party officers -- are doing little to bring the party back," he said. "Nature abhors a vacuum, and there is no vacuum in nature as empty as the leadership of the Republican Party today."

Conditions are more mixed in the states, where leaders say they are – for better or worse – insulated from the national storm.

“I am bullish on the Republican Party in Iowa,” said that state’s new GOP chairman, Matt Strawn. “I haven’t gotten a single call from a county leader on the Chairman Steele-Rush Limbaugh back and forth.”

Others are more downbeat.

“Up here we’ve got a very serious rebuilding problem and it starts at the ground level,” said Rath, of New Hampshire. “With all due respect, what Rush Limbaugh or Newt Gingrich or Michael Steele says is hardly relevant to the country chairman who’s trying to find candidates for the legislature.”

As for the search for national leaders, said Rath, “I’m not sure we’re ready for that yet – I’m not sure we need a serious relationship right now. I think we just need to sort through where we’ve been for a while.”

To the extent that Republicans see hope, it’s in Obama himself, the leftward tilt of his policies, and the chance that he comes to be blamed for the nation’s economic woes.

“This guy, just like [Bill] Clinton, is misreading the election results and governing from the left,” said Kaufman.

“In politics nothing’s ever as good or as bad as it seems,” said another seasoned observer, former party chairman Ed Gillespie, who was quoting one of his predecessors, Haley Barbour. “Even if it’s not as bad as it seems, though, things are bad for the Republican Party right now.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19636.html

Mr Gently Benevolent
03-06-2009, 02:52 AM
“This guy, just like [Bill] Clinton, is misreading the election results and governing from the left,” said Kaufman.Well President Obama didn’t misread the electorate and he was pitching some way left of centre ideas during his campaign. I really believe that many Republicans can not come to terms with the fact that they lost and fully believe that Persident Obama stole the election by slight of hand.

homegrowncat
03-06-2009, 08:44 AM
Well President Obama didn’t misread the electorate and he was pitching some way left of centre ideas during his campaign. I really believe that many Republicans can not come to terms with the fact that they lost and fully believe that Persident Obama stole the election by slight of hand.


I wouldn't say that members of the GOP think Obama stole the election...McCain ran an awful campeign that I'm pretty sure wouldn't even have got him elected to Student Council president let alone President of the United States. Obama, campeigned where there were large amount of liberal votes (i.e. the coast) which is smart. In my opinion the reason that Obama is viewed as "leading from the left" is that there hasn't been much dialogue reported between him and the traditionally conservative parts of the country i.e. the middle and southern parts.

Just my opinion.

2Sheds_Jackson
03-06-2009, 10:09 AM
I really believe that many Republicans can not come to terms with the fact that they lost and fully believe that Persident Obama stole the election by slight of hand.

Well none of the Republicans that I know believe that. None of them were enthusiastic about McCain, and quite a few of them didn't even bother to vote. So it's no surprise to them why Obama won. That also kind of explains why the party is in a shambles. The base wants to clean house, and the tired old douchebags entrenched in power are trying to sell the lie that anything "republican" is automatically "conservative". I think the base has just about had it.

JKD
03-06-2009, 11:56 AM
Obama, campeigned where there were large amount of liberal votes (i.e. the coast) which is smart.
Actually Obama ran a "50 state campaign". Even managed to turn some traditionally red states blue.

MJC9678
03-06-2009, 12:41 PM
Obama won by promising people the world, and Americans sadly fell for it. McCain was a disaster. He was the totally wrong guy to run against Obama. If Obama is still the popular in 4 years I will be shocked.....and very sad that we are so stupid.

gaijinsamurai
03-06-2009, 04:57 PM
Rush Limbaugh's statements that he hopes Obama fails does not help to endear him, or his party in the eyes of most Americans.

I think it's in the best interests of the GOP to try to get him to shut the hell up, however difficult that may be.

I think the vast majority of Americans want first and foremost to get out of the current economic mess we're in, and we don't care who does it, as long as we reverse the trend of lay-offs, bank foreclosures, bankruptcies, etc...

seraosha
03-06-2009, 05:06 PM
Rush Limbaugh's statements that he hopes Obama fails does not help to endear him, or his party in the eyes of most Americans.

I think it's in the best interests of the GOP to try to get him to shut the hell up, however difficult that may be.

I think the vast majority of Americans want first and foremost to get out of the current economic mess we're in, and we don't care who does it, as long as we reverse the trend of lay-offs, bank foreclosures, bankruptcies, etc...

Rush sells product...and the Democrats are doing their best to help him sell it by trying to demonize him. The best defense against a loudmouth like him is to just ignore him instead of giving him free advertisement. And shutting up a private citizen that speaks his mind doesn't really fall within this republic's jurisdiction, does it...or has it changed that much since the promised one got into office? Hate Rush or love him, the man has a right to be heard and by all apparent signs is hitting a few nerves with those that feel let down by the Republicans.

If all that "the vast majority" of Americans want is to "get out of this economic mess and doesn't care who does it", then we truly deserve the leaders we are likely to get...I'm sure some Germans felt the same way in the late 30's and look how that turned out.

philbob
03-06-2009, 05:30 PM
Rush sells product...and the Democrats are doing their best to help him sell it by trying to demonize him. The best defense against a loudmouth like him is to just ignore him instead of giving him free advertisement. And shutting up a private citizen that speaks his mind doesn't really fall within this republic's jurisdiction, does it...or has it changed that much since the promised one got into office? Hate Rush or love him, the man has a right to be heard and by all apparent signs is hitting a few nerves with those that feel let down by the Republicans.

If all that "the vast majority" of Americans want is to "get out of this economic mess and doesn't care who does it", then we truly deserve the leaders we are likely to get...I'm sure some Germans felt the same way in the late 30's and look how that turned out.

it is starting too look like we already got that

DetailedEntrails
03-06-2009, 05:38 PM
Obama won by promising people the world, and Americans sadly fell for it. McCain was a disaster. He was the totally wrong guy to run against Obama. If Obama is still the popular in 4 years I will be shocked.....and very sad that we are so stupid.

If your gonna sit there and say McCains a disaster (which he is not) how are you gonna say the american people are stupid for voting in Obama?

philbob
03-06-2009, 05:59 PM
Ill bite.... alot of people were stupid for voting for him, they voted for for the wrong reasons mainly greed. All he did was promies people things and then pressed how he gave a very vague concept of how he will do it. Then when he is challenge (or asked questions) by someone he tries to play at he was comming down to socialize and be friendly and then tries to change the subject. But it is fine the republicans are at a low point now but that doesnt last forever and eventually the pendulum will swing and the democrats will find them selves in the dog house

DetailedEntrails
03-06-2009, 08:08 PM
Ill bite.... alot of people were stupid for voting for him, they voted for for the wrong reasons mainly greed. All he did was promies people things and then pressed how he gave a very vague concept of how he will do it. Then when he is challenge (or asked questions) by someone he tries to play at he was comming down to socialize and be friendly and then tries to change the subject. But it is fine the republicans are at a low point now but that doesnt last forever and eventually the pendulum will swing and the democrats will find them selves in the dog houseDoesnt every politician make ridiculous promises they can never keep? Its really nothing new.

philbob
03-06-2009, 08:51 PM
like i said it is the American people fault for falling for it, McCain made promies's but not as extravagant ones as Obama did

Bia
03-06-2009, 09:05 PM
Some asstard comes on before Rush name Neil Bort I think... he pretty much confirmed everything I believed about basic neo-conservatism. (thurs 5th)

He was rambling how Obama is stealing from the wealthy and tossing it to poor people, he said and I quote, "$250,000 a year isnt really a lot for a family of 4"

A caller suggested "Tell that to a family of 4 living off $40,000 a year" chastising Mr Bort.

Mr Bort replied, "Anyone making 40k a year in America has ignorantly squandered the great dream that embodies America and deserves the hard times they have chosen to live in"

I kid you not.

Walter Sobchak
03-07-2009, 12:40 AM
Rush Limbaugh's statements that he hopes Obama fails does not help to endear him, or his party in the eyes of most Americans.

I think it's in the best interests of the GOP to try to get him to shut the hell up, however difficult that may be.

I think the vast majority of Americans want first and foremost to get out of the current economic mess we're in, and we don't care who does it, as long as we reverse the trend of lay-offs, bank foreclosures, bankruptcies, etc...

Limbaugh said that he hopes Obama's attempt to "socialize" America fails. It's funny how that gets misquoted.

The only way to get America un-tracked is to fix the banking system. The Administration is still trying to locate people who are not ethically challenged, insiders or lobbyists to come up with a plan. This "plan to save failing banks" has been nothing short of missing in action...

Raising taxes in a recession.... even the TALK of doing so hurts the economy, especially, when it involves many who are sole proprietorships (aka: Small Businesses). If you want "social change", fix the godda*n tax-paying segment of the population and then re-create Utopia. Not the other way around!

Until the capital markets, investors and fund managers feel confident about the leadership in Washington, we will stay in this mess. Japan tried something like 12 stimulus packages in the 1990s, and they all failed. It's just a short-term feeling like something is being done, when in reality, it's just printing and borrowing money.

Fix the banks, which means figuring out a way to remove the bad debts from those banks. That isn't happening... instead we're passing laws against owning primates and talking about cutting the tax deductions for charitable contributions and mortgages. The President is saying on January 6th that he is against "earmarks" and won't have them in the bills he signs, but the Omnibus Budget Bill has over 9000 of them, many by the GOP!

Confidence is a great weapon in the hands of a US President. It's time to stop preaching about a vision and about coming together and about healing and justice and all that fluffy stuff and do some honest to goodness leading! President Obama can no longer opt to vote "present".

MJC9678
03-07-2009, 08:59 AM
Some asstard comes on before Rush name Neil Bort I think... he pretty much confirmed everything I believed about basic neo-conservatism. (thurs 5th)

He was rambling how Obama is stealing from the wealthy and tossing it to poor people, he said and I quote, "$250,000 a year isnt really a lot for a family of 4"

A caller suggested "Tell that to a family of 4 living off $40,000 a year" chastising Mr Bort.

Mr Bort replied, "Anyone making 40k a year in America has ignorantly squandered the great dream that embodies America and deserves the hard times they have chosen to live in"

I kid you not.

250k per year in NYC area, CA, or NJ for a family of 4 really is not a lot of money. You are not scraping by but you are watching your accounts near paycheck time. You have to look at cost of living too. Property tax, sales tax, housing costs, horrible public schools so you have to send your kids to private school (so you end up paying 2x for school....). It sounds like a lot of money to people in the rest of the country where the cost of living is very low. That is how they sell the "tax the rich" plan to the entire country.

MJC9678
03-07-2009, 09:04 AM
If your gonna sit there and say McCains a disaster (which he is not) how are you gonna say the american people are stupid for voting in Obama?


McCain was the wrong guy at the wrong time. Real conservatives (not Bush conservatives) do not trust McCain for good reason. He was already type cast as old and cranky, been in washington for decades....etc. He killed himself by backing "immigration reform" which 75% of the country (here legally) was against, along with many other issues in the last ten years.

Point is, McCain was the wrong guy to run against Our Glorious Leader. Just like Bob Dole was terribly matched against Bill Clinton.

JKD
03-07-2009, 12:12 PM
McCain was the wrong guy at the wrong time. Real conservatives (not Bush conservatives) do not trust McCain for good reason. He was already type cast as old and cranky, been in washington for decades....etc. He killed himself by backing "immigration reform" which 75% of the country (here legally) was against, along with many other issues in the last ten years.

Point is, McCain was the wrong guy to run against Our Glorious Leader. Just like Bob Dole was terribly matched against Bill Clinton.

I don't think McCain was all that bad of a choice. He was polling better than his party. His campaign was horribly run though. At some point in the summer they had him go too angry NASCAR conservative to try and win over the base when he should have been swinging towards the middle to win a general election. Steve Schmidt, or whoever was in charge, took a likeable guy with appeal to swing voters and turned him into a grouchy petty stiff mud slinging candidate who looked really uncomfortable doing what he was doing.

gaijinsamurai
03-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Rush sells product...and the Democrats are doing their best to help him sell it by trying to demonize him. The best defense against a loudmouth like him is to just ignore him instead of giving him free advertisement. And shutting up a private citizen that speaks his mind doesn't really fall within this republic's jurisdiction, does it...or has it changed that much since the promised one got into office? Hate Rush or love him, the man has a right to be heard and by all apparent signs is hitting a few nerves with those that feel let down by the Republicans.

If all that "the vast majority" of Americans want is to "get out of this economic mess and doesn't care who does it", then we truly deserve the leaders we are likely to get...I'm sure some Germans felt the same way in the late 30's and look how that turned out.

I agree with the first paragraph of your post.

However, you've misrepresented my post in your second paragraph. I did not say "all that" the vast majority of Americans want to get out of this economic mess.." I said they want it first and foremost. We still care about the war in Iraq, the fight against terrorism, issues like immigration reform, etc...., but unless you've been living under a rock the last year, the number one concern most of us have right now is the economy. And yeah, if the Dems look more capable of getting us out of the mess, the majority of Americans, be they Democrats or Republicans, want him to have a shot at doing it, without being hampered by partisan bullsh*t. The fact of the matter is that a alot of people voted for him because in the campaign, he was able to speak about ideas for reversing the economic slump, rather than get tongue twisted and confused like Palin, or focus on crap like "lipstick on a pig" like McCain did. And comparing Obama to Hitler? Please......

Hollis
03-07-2009, 02:07 PM
Well President Obama didn’t misread the electorate and he was pitching some way left of centre ideas during his campaign. I really believe that many Republicans can not come to terms with the fact that they lost and fully believe that Persident Obama stole the election by slight of hand.


Your the only person I heard this from. The R's are not as stupid as you think they are. Most conservatives will probably mumble something such as, "We never had a candidate to begin with".

wasn't the stolen election 2000 one............? :)

Bia
03-07-2009, 02:17 PM
250k per year in NYC area, CA, or NJ for a family of 4 really is not a lot of money. You are not scraping by but you are watching your accounts near paycheck time. You have to look at cost of living too. Property tax, sales tax, housing costs, horrible public schools so you have to send your kids to private school (so you end up paying 2x for school....). It sounds like a lot of money to people in the rest of the country where the cost of living is very low. That is how they sell the "tax the rich" plan to the entire country."laugh my arse off"

Spoiled softys amuse me.

HTFU

philbob
03-07-2009, 02:21 PM
"laugh my arse off"

spoiled softys amuse me.

Htfu

htfu?
12345

Bia
03-07-2009, 02:42 PM
Yeah it's an Acronym.

Imagine that.

philbob
03-07-2009, 02:44 PM
what is it

Bia
03-07-2009, 02:46 PM
PM a Mod... I suggest Hellfish.

Oh wait PM is an acronym too... it stands for "personal message" sir.

philbob
03-07-2009, 02:47 PM
are you on your period? or are you always this unpleasnt? either way you wont find a boyfriend with that attitude

gaijinsamurai
03-07-2009, 02:50 PM
Hahahaha!!!


(I'll let you in on a secret, philbob: Bia and Hellfish are the same person! Don't tell anyone!)

philbob
03-07-2009, 02:51 PM
Hahahaha!!!


(I'll let you in on a secret, philbob: Bia and Hellfish are the same person! Don't tell anyone!)

that is a good one rofl I tried some Full Sail Amber that is brewed on the hood river have you had it?

gaijinsamurai
03-07-2009, 02:55 PM
Hell yeah. I drank that stuff all the time in college, back in the '90s. Fullsail makes some good brew. I visited the brewery back in October, in Hood River.

Bia
03-07-2009, 02:55 PM
are you on your period? or are you always this unpleasnt? either way you wont find a boyfriend with that attitude

For me to properly reply... I'd be suspended in .03 seconds.

Pass.

philbob
03-07-2009, 02:58 PM
For me to properly reply... I'd be suspended in .03 seconds.

Pass.

well cuz you were in the wrong and could of just anwserd a question and that is why you cant 'properly reply'

back on subject now :)

@Ganjisamurai, im telling you try the Iron Horse from Ellenburg if you get a chance

Bia
03-07-2009, 03:13 PM
back on subject now :)

@Ganjisamurai, im telling you try the Iron Horse from Ellenburg if you get a chanceThe topic isnt drinks.

philbob
03-07-2009, 03:16 PM
it isnt about your personailty defects either but you made it clear you wanted it you be about that

but back on subject, while the republicans (or a new group that follows there ideals) are at a low point now they will eventually rebound and the democrats will some day be locked out again it is just a cycle, the tides favored Obama this cycle but it wont stay with him forever :)

quite frankly it will be close to impossible to sustain the sysnergy they have especially as more democrats come under scutinty by the media, CNN is already bombarding them even MSNBC to a lesser degree and eventually Americans will tire of democratic coruption

besides that pain the repubs are faceing now will build alot more charachter and a honned policy when it comes time for their return in a few years

Mastermind
03-08-2009, 10:41 PM
Well, I think the Pubes are getting exactly what they earned. They let opportunity after opportunity slip right through their fingers. They wanted to be loved by everyone and ended up hated by everyone. To end up by having a coksuker like John McCain be the nominee was like whipped cream and a cherry on top of a shake. It was a really juicy capper. I gave up on them after being a stauch, dyed in the wool Republican my whole life. They have to be the whiniest, most self serving group of pols to ever call themselves Republicans. What they are is a bunch of money grubbing politicans with terminal Democrat envy.

seraosha
03-09-2009, 12:21 AM
[quote=gaijinsamurai;3973054And comparing Obama to Hitler? Please......[/quote]

Not at all...Obama isn't a good enough orator to be compared to Hitler. No the comparison is the tough economic times and people desperate to elect anyone that claims to have the answer...and demagogues always claim to have all the answers. But I'm cautious about any "scapegoat" politics in this regard..."them" can be Repubs, neo-cons, Zionists, the Wealthy...you have to wonder at the misdirection and the root cause.

The rise of fascisim was in direct correlation with the Great Depression...just because our current proto-fascists call themselves "greens" and proclaim "change" as their rally cry doesn't make it any more pleasant.

boone
03-09-2009, 12:25 AM
Not at all...Obama isn't a good enough orator to be compared to Hitler. No the comparison is the tough economic times and people desperate to elect anyone that claims to have the answer...and demagogues always claim to have all the answers. But I'm cautious about any "scapegoat" politics in this regard..."them" can be Repubs, neo-cons, Zionists, the Wealthy...you have to wonder at the misdirection and the root cause.

The rise of fascisim was in direct correlation with the Great Depression...just because our current proto-fascists call themselves "greens" and proclaim "change" as their rally cry doesn't make it any more pleasant.
Holy ****! Did you just use the word "Zionist" in a sentence, Then liken the Green Party to Fascists?

Mastermind
03-09-2009, 01:26 PM
Holy ****! Did you just use the word "Zionist" in a sentence, Then liken the Green Party to Fascists?
Hahaha...It makes perfect sense. I don't understand why you would be...apparently...critical on the use of those terms. So, here I am asking for you to please expand you comment. Do you not believe the Greens are fascists? Do you not think the word "Zionists" should be used ever? Do you think it is an obsolecent word?

Anyway...I'll be waiting to read your enlightening commentary as you explain.