Firearm Microstamping

[MaverickCowboy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping

will it pass?

[Hollis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping

will it pass?


I hope is doesn't, it is so easily defeated. It would not accomplish anything of any major value considering it's cost.

Also brass catchers are illegal in some states. Gotta love those laws, that assume criminals will obey the laws.

[hanmya]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping

will it pass?

Already passed and signed in to law in California.

Does not infringe on your second amendment rights...so dont see any problem with its passing. Anyway it would really help law enforcement to nail gun crime culprits! Edit: if it becomes a federal law.

[ed316]

I see a major potential for abuse.

[Hollis]

Already passed and signed in to law in California.

Does not infringe on your second amendment rights...so dont see any problem with its passing. Anyway it would really help law enforcement to nail gun crime culprits!


LOL, Hey I have a bridge in Brooklyn, that I need to sale. It would be a great deal for you.

I can tell you know nothing about firearms, or law enforcement, or forensic science, machine technology, criminals, various criminal laws, 2nd Amendment, etc,

[MaverickCowboy]

LOL, Hey I have a bridge in Brooklyn, that I need to sale. It would be a great deal for you.

I can tell you know nothing about firearms, or law enforcement, or forensic science, machine technology, criminals, various criminal laws, 2nd Amendment, etc,

I think i had a stroke when i read that. Thanks for responding to that while my brain was resetting.

[MaverickCowboy]

Already passed and signed in to law in California.

Does not infringe on your second amendment rights...so dont see any problem with its passing. Anyway it would really help law enforcement to nail gun crime culprits! Edit: if it becomes a federal law.

Whats your social security? since you don't value privacy.

[MaverickCowboy]

Also who has a micro stamped gun in Calif?

[hanmya]

LOL, Hey I have a bridge in Brooklyn, that I need to sale. It would be a great deal for you.

I can tell you know nothing about firearms, or law enforcement, or forensic science, machine technology, criminals, various criminal laws, 2nd Amendment, etc,

You are right in some aspects. I am all for better gun control laws. Having seen the business end of a barrel, twice, and relieved of my hard work's earnings, anything that limits or puts fear in the mind of a criminal, I support!
Many of my friends get quite jittery on mentioning laws about guns - all NRA members. So I can understand, albeit roughly- about their concern about laws which concern firearms.

As for the Brooklyn Bridge, plz ship it to my farm address :)

[commanding]

So what is to keep some criminal from picking up your brass at the gun range, and liberaling sprinkling it around the crime scent after he "caps" some other illegal drug dealer. so the cops find your brass on the bad side of town, two feet from the deceased. the round passed completely thru the dead guy and they have no fired rounds to compare for ballistics?

The feds do a check of the imprint on the casings and your name comes up in the federal ballistic lottery...three hours later your house is surrounded by a swat team. Five hours later, your mug is on the evening news, all your guns are in police custody, and you are trying to remember the name of a lawyer?

[MaverickCowboy]

You are right in some aspects. I am all for better gun control laws. Having seen the business end of a barrel, twice, and relieved of my hard work's earnings, anything that limits or puts fear in the mind of a criminal, I support!
Many of my friends get quite jittery on mentioning laws about guns - all NRA members. So I can understand, albeit roughly- about their concern about laws which concern firearms.

As for the Brooklyn Bridge, plz ship it to my farm address :)


so have I, but, contrary to popular belief, gun control isnt effective with crimincals.

[Mastermind]

Hahaha^^ Same as the criminal who gathered cigarette butts at the bus station, random match books, a found hanky with snot in it, a found tube of lipstick, an unfired .45 auto cartridge (he used a .357 to kill his victim), and scattered them through his crime scene. Police never caught him or her....totally confused by the overwhelming evidence.

[hanmya]

I understand it gets murkier and murkier. Many of you here are right about your rights to privacy and complications arising from such laws. The debate would then get to firearms and the interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Anyway I cannot comment about that. But for a foreigner, whos here legally working his a*se off, to be relieved of his hard work;'s earnings by a bum/criminal, who does not want to work for it, is really revolting!
So I hope you all can understand why I suddenly jumped in to comment about this law. Nothing personal.

Thanks.

[MaverickCowboy]

So what is to keep some criminal from picking up your brass at the gun range, and liberaling sprinkling it around the crime scent after he "caps" some other illegal drug dealer. so the cops find your brass on the bad side of town, two feet from the deceased. the round passed completely thru the dead guy and they have no fired rounds to compare for ballistics?

The feds do a check of the imprint on the casings and your name comes up in the federal ballistic lottery...three hours later your house is surrounded by a swat team. Five hours later, your mug is on the evening news, all your guns are in police custody, and you are trying to remember the name of a lawyer?

Its for your protection.

[commanding]

Do they plan on forcibly recalling all the existing firearms in the USA to have them microstamped? Will the criminals turn in their firearms to have them microstamped?

What keeps someone from filing off the mark, or putting a thin coat of metal on top of microstamp?

[Hollis]

A good read, Rules of Evidence.

A bullet recovered from a body is a direct link to the firearm, with ballistic testing. A case is a case is a case............. The link has to be established and then........ it might be impeached by the defense.

[MaverickCowboy]

I understand it gets murkier and murkier. Many of you here are right about your rights to privacy and complications arising from such laws. The debate would then get to firearms and the interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Anyway I cannot comment about that. But for a foreigner, whos here legally working his a*se off, to be relieved of his hard work;'s earnings by a bum/criminal, who does not want to work for it, is really revolting!
So I hope you all can understand why I suddenly jumped in to comment about this law. Nothing personal.

Thanks.

What about the second amendment?



Does anyone remember the gun confiscations of new york and new orleans?.... Yeah, **** this.

Wiki-
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution) is the part of the United States Bill of Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights) that protects a right to keep and bear arms.

The Supreme Court, in a landmark decision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_decision),[100] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-99)[101] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-100)[102] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-101)[103] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-102) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=07-290#opinion1) (2008) ruled that "[t]he Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense"

There you have the meaning, and a court ruling, its official. what is there to argue about?

[Hollis]

Let me add a very key phrase,


"shall not be infringed".................... The word here is infringed.

[Mastermind]

So quit buying new guns. Most of what I have is older than WWII and still fires deadly and accurately and with as much rapidity as I can squeeze the trigger...ammo is cheap for them, too. No micro stamping...just pure hard impacting lead.

[MaverickCowboy]

So quit buying new guns. Most of what I have is older than WWII and still fires deadly and accurately and with as much rapidity as I can squeeze the trigger...ammo is cheap for them, too. No micro stamping...just pure hard impacting lead.

I wont limit myself to old guns, thats retarded.

[hanmya]

What about the second amendment?



Does anyone remember the gun confiscations of new york and new orleans?.... Yeah, **** this.

Wiki-
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution) is the part of the United States Bill of Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights) that protects a right to keep and bear arms.

The Supreme Court, in a landmark decision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_decision),[100] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-99)[101] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-100)[102] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-101)[103] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_amendment#cite_note-102) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=07-290#opinion1) (2008) ruled that "[t]he Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense"

There you have the meaning, and a court ruling, its official. what is there to argue about?

I had read arguments about the interpretation of the word "militia" in the constitution. But your post clears the misconception "protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia" No arguments here.
I wasn't saying that I would argue. Hell, I don't even know the laws that clearly to comment on them. I just do what the officials and the HR people tell me to do! But I do hate it when lazy people with the help of a firearm rob you of your earnings. If it happened in my country I could have taken care of such people - both legally and 'illegally'! But you feel so helpless here ....so my frustration at not being able to protect my family adequately!

[MaverickCowboy]

I had read arguments about the interpretation of the word "militia" in the constitution. But your post clears the misconception "protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia" No arguments here.
I wasn't saying that I would argue. Hell, I don't even know the laws that clearly to comment on them. I just do what the officials and the HR people tell me to do! But I do hate it when lazy people with the help of a firearm rob you of your earnings. If it happened in my country I could have taken care of such people - both legally and 'illegally'! But you feel so helpless here ....so my frustration at not being able to protect my family adequately!

Originally i was trying to say that anti-gun laws do not prevent crime, nor will this hep solve crimes, its useless and will only make it super expensive for us to own guns and force us int reregistration and live in fear of confiscation.

[Albatross]

Just buy guns now, before this stupid law passes. Then buy a crap load of ammo.

[Dragonscript]

All the more reason to go to caseless ammo.

[Shurik SST]

Umm what? What kind of stupid people think this can not be defeated by a 10 dolar hand tool from a hardware store called a file...

What a retarded suggestion. I'm all for laws that have a practical use. This is retarded as it can easily be defeated in multiple ways.

[deagle]

sounds like a good idea at first, but what if gun shop armorer switches out firing pin with an unmarked one, so bullets can't be identified ? or if gangster thug learns how to strip a particular firearm ??

having an identifying system makes sense, to at least make sure the law-abiding owners have access, but this plan won't work if its on a firing pin.

[playtym]

I'm spending all my money on pre-ban firing pins. In a few years folk will pay through the nose for those things so they can swap out their microstamped ones.

[LongShot]

But its such a feel good solution................:roll:

[Mastermind]

I wont limit myself to old guns, thats retarded.
Yeah..that AK-47 is a gun for suckers. No reliability and firepower at all. The SKS, what a piece of s4it all that accuracy and fire power a lie and so low cost it must be unworkable. That M1911 sure is a turd of a gun. And the old Colts, Smiths and Dan Wessons all crap..whew...nothing to them...pure Saturday night specials.

Yep...that is retarded.

[number nine]

Umm what? What kind of stupid people think this can not be defeated by a 10 dolar hand tool from a hardware store called a file...

What a retarded suggestion. I'm all for laws that have a practical use. This is retarded as it can easily be defeated in multiple ways.

You are right, but by defeating microstamping you are showing malicious intent, premeditation, because microstamping don't prevent any legal weapon use.

[Mastermind]

So buy spare firing pins...switch 'em after you rob that bank or off the neighbor because his doggie barked too much.

[California Joe]

Yeah..that AK-47 is a gun for suckers. No reliability and firepower at all. The SKS, what a piece of s4it all that accuracy and fire power a lie and so low cost it must be unworkable. That M1911 sure is a turd of a gun. And the old Colts, Smiths and Dan Wessons all crap..whew...nothing to them...pure Saturday night specials.

Yep...that is retarded.

MM, you have to understand that he has grand dreams of someday owning a gun collection and is nearly hysterical over this last election. He's kinda like the resident Special Olympian of gun legislation in here.

[LineDoggie]

I'm spending all my money on pre-ban firing pins. In a few years folk will pay through the nose for those things so they can swap out their microstamped ones.
You might be onto something there. I remember guys buying AR mags like they needed to eat them before the AWB, then turning around and making tidy sims off the Pre ban Mags later

[Pappy]

This law is incredibly stupid. Like was mentioned earlier, someone could pick up your brass at a range if you missed one when you were cleaning up. Also, you could probably easily defeat this by filling the microstamp with some solder, not to mention just picking up your brass after you shoot someone. Filing the microstamp off probably wouldn't work though, because then the firing pin wouldn't hit the primer hard enough.

Ultimately, this law would prove extremely inneffective and would only catch the stupider criminals that would probably get caught anyway. All it would do is put a financial burden on the industry. And here's a question. Why is law enforcement exempt from the California law? Is there no accountability for them?

And for all you people saying "Just stock up on weapons now" or "buy old weapons", that won't last long and would only be good for our generations. What about our kids, and their kids?

[Bia]

LOL, Hey I have a bridge in Brooklyn, that I need to sale. It would be a great deal for you.

I can tell you know nothing about firearms, or law enforcement, or forensic science, machine technology, criminals, various criminal laws, 2nd Amendment, etc,


I think i had a stroke when i read that. Thanks for responding to that while my brain was resetting.In all fairness it would be more accurate for him to say, "It might help law enforcement in some cases"

But to add the obvious... most criminal minded people arent obeying gun laws to begin with.
It could help in those rare instances where a non criminal screws up and uses their weapon the wrong way... then tries to cover.


Personaly... it seems reactive not proactive.

[Hollis]

In all fairness it would be more accurate for him to say, "It might help law enforcement in some cases"




Bia, not wanting to get into the case law (sorry had to say that) but the rules of evidence is pretty highly defined. It would take a semester to cover what all it entails. I doubt this would help. There are too many links that have to be established in evidence trail.

If your interested, pick up a book on the rules of evidence. Because the rules are pretty strict, that is one reason people will say the law coddles the criminal. It is in desire to protect the innocent that this happens.


The reason for the law is simple, it is to make ownership too expensive.
To understand that, I recommend basic govern and economy 101. If you have any question.

[Bia]

I'm not debating any of that as I know little of the law.

Simply saying people should say it "might" help in "some" cases as opposed to some thinking it is a magic pie in the sky CSI fix all solution.

And yeah it's not a fix for anything logical I agree.

[Hollis]

I'm not debating any of that as I know nothing of the law.

Simply saying people should say it "might" help in "some" cases as opposed to some thinking it is a magic pie in the sky CSI fix all solution.


That is a good point, Most people don't know, don't care and probably want a more safe environment.

The battle is propaganda that uses the ignorance of people and their fears to shape a new society. People that do that, regardless of political affiliation, scares the heck out me. They are saying, "The ends justifies the means."

If you can not outlaw something, you can effectively do that by making it as difficult as possible to own or to use. This law would create major financial burden to purchase a compliant firearm on honest citizens before it did anything else. That is probably all it would do.

[Shurik SST]

You are right, but by defeating microstamping you are showing malicious intent, premeditation, because microstamping don't prevent any legal weapon use.

So? Will they have random microstamp inspections? And why would someone who intends to use it in some illegal way care? Or what is if someone swaps them like a gunsmith and someone uses your pin for some illagal thing and you get stuck with it? What if someone finds a way to fake microstamps just like people forge IDs? What if some guy in china starts making fake microstamps for sale or purchase?

Any number of thigs defeat this tech. This is retarded to the outmost degree regardless of the stance on gun control.

Just imagine that there might be a database compromise and someone can then fake all these numbers and sell forged firing pins to criminals. All of a sudden you have multiple guns with the same print... And who can the law get? Only the poor sod that happen to be the unliky guy whos microstamp got faked.

It really would not be difficult at all to fake a microstamp with some basic machine tools.

[Bro Jangles]

not to mention just picking up your brass after you shoot someone.

bolt action rifles FTW.

[number nine]

So? Will they have random microstamp inspections? And why would someone who intends to use it in some illegal way care? Or what is if someone swaps them like a gunsmith and someone uses your pin for some illagal thing and you get stuck with it? What if someone finds a way to fake microstamps just like people forge IDs? What if some guy in china starts making fake microstamps for sale or purchase?

Any number of thigs defeat this tech. This is retarded to the outmost degree regardless of the stance on gun control.

Just imagine that there might be a database compromise and someone can then fake all these numbers and sell forged firing pins to criminals. All of a sudden you have multiple guns with the same print... And who can the law get? Only the poor sod that happen to be the unliky guy whos microstamp got faked.

It really would not be difficult at all to fake a microstamp with some basic machine tools.

Surik, AFAIK the firing chamber is microstamped as well. I agree that it can be defeated, but you still lock the door even though that can be defeated easily don't you? Price of microstamping will be negligible compared to total price of weapon, like 50 cents per gun. That is the first thing. Second is that it is bigger problem to criminals using the gun than law-abiding citizens using it. If it's going to trouble the criminals, and may help the police, I am for it. Guns are overtaxed anyway and microstamping will not change much, it will not make gun ownership impossible.

[MaverickCowboy]

Yeah..that AK-47 is a gun for suckers. No reliability and firepower at all. The SKS, what a piece of s4it all that accuracy and fire power a lie and so low cost it must be unworkable. That M1911 sure is a turd of a gun. And the old Colts, Smiths and Dan Wessons all crap..whew...nothing to them...pure Saturday night specials.

Yep...that is retarded.

I thought you meant antiques.

[MaverickCowboy]

MM, you have to understand that he has grand dreams of someday owning a gun collection and is nearly hysterical over this last election. He's kinda like the resident Special Olympian of gun legislation in here.

That's uncalled for. you got better manners than that.

[brainplay]

Second is that it is bigger problem to criminals using the gun than law-abiding citizens using it. If it's going to trouble the criminals, and may help the police, I am for it. Guns are overtaxed anyway and microstamping will not change much, it will not make gun ownership impossible.

Not necessarily. If your gun or used brass is stolen or if a dealer reports a gun stolen then thats it. Evidence chain ends there unless the police decide to look into the actual theft and gather evidence. However, thats highly unlikely. Additionally if an individual makes a second hand sale and the information given to the seller proves to be false (not hard as proved by our illegal alien friends) then the evidence chain ends there as well.

On the other hand, a private citizen or dealer who has followed the law and who has had a weapon OR USED BRASS stolen and used in a crime will now be under undo scrutiny from law enforcement. If nothing else they'll have their name flagged in a nice database forever. We're also forgetting the potential to remove the stamp from the weapon similar to removing a serial number or the sale of doctored stamps. No way to prove that its been done without a full disassembly.

You're under the assumption that new legally purchased handguns with the new stamp is going to eventually cut down on crime or at least solve problems. Statistics don't agree with you on that one.

Oh, then there's the slight problem of... .22 RIMFIRE caliber guns being the most common crime related caliber used in the entire US even surprassing the 9mm in gun related crimes. Good luck stamping that one, or keeping it from being scratched off.

They were going to make a master database using firing pin forensics and barrel rifling. Unfortunately it proved inaccurate after 10sec with some steel wool.

[Mastermind]

^^ that's what I'm talking about right there. It's a fools errand...totally stupid idea dreamed up by some loony beitch from Kalifornia who has never fired a weapon in her stupid Green Peace life.

[mi35d]

Damn! I won't be able to commit my felony crime now because they'll discover the brass from my micro-stamped weapon.

Yep. Sure is a quandry for a criminal like me.

Gosh! What shall I do?

Oh, here's a thought...

I'LL USE A FRIGGIN' REVOLVER.

Duh.

Touchy-feel good crap. They're going to try and ram it down the throats of NY voters this year.

For all of you "...but it won't impinge on your rights!" folks out there, there are people within my state who aren't just advocating the microstamp technology for NEW weapons. They're trying to advocate the banning of any weapon that DOESN'T have a micro-stamped firing pin. See? They aren't saying you can't have a gun, it just needs to have all the special bells and whistles the anit-gun crowd says it should have.

Other attempts at this way around the 2nd amendment have been "...no gun can be sold in NY unless it has electronic 'fingerprinting' technology assigned to the licensed pistol permit holder."

Last year it was, "...no muzzle breaks or flash supressors" and "...any handgun with a magazine forward of the trigger shall be considered an 'assault weapon' and is hereby considered illegal to own."

There was also the ".50cal 'ASSAULT weapons ban" that would make illegal any weapon capable of firing a cartridge of .49 cal or greater illegal. Regardless of age or type. So a modern black powder rifle or an antique Brown Bess would have to be turned in for confiscation and destruction.

[playtym]

You might be onto something there. I remember guys buying AR mags like they needed to eat them before the AWB, then turning around and making tidy sims off the Pre ban Mags later

During the period of the AWB I knew a Saffie who was going around here swapping out all our old pre-ban mags for spanking new post ban ones, and then shipping the pre-ban ones across there. He had a nice little cottage industry going for a while. :)

[Hollis]

During the period of the AWB I knew a Saffie who was going around here swapping out all our old pre-ban mags for spanking new post ban ones, and then shipping the pre-ban ones across there. He had a nice little cottage industry going for a while. :)


That is what the AWB actually did, created new business' and a new class of firearm. Expensive ones and lesser expensive ones. It was another feel good do nothing law, except screw with the honest citizen. I don't think these laws target criminals. There are plenty of laws on the books with stiff penalties for illegal acts committed with a firearm that are not imposed on criminals.

[California Joe]

That's uncalled for. you got better manners than that.

Shouldn't you be starting another whinging "OMFG the sky is falling" thread?

[MaverickCowboy]

Shouldn't you be starting another whinging "OMFG the sky is falling" thread?

Ive never no such threads, also i started this thread with a question.

[Walter Sobchak]

so have I, but, contrary to popular belief, gun control isnt effective with crimincals.

Hey, I have a novel idea!

Let's enforce the thousands of gun and gun-related laws on the books instead of passing more of them!

How many perps who stuck up the local Piggly Wiggly with an illegally obtained firearm are ever tried and convicted on Federal weapons charges? None! Instead, they plead 10-15 for a State crime, they get out in 8 years and go back into business. Why don't we add a Federal 20-25 years (with no 'good time') on top of those State charges?

Gun laws don't work on criminals because, (a.) they are lawbreaking criminals, (b.) too often they are not enforced.

[Walter Sobchak]

Damn! I won't be able to commit my felony crime now because they'll discover the brass from my micro-stamped weapon.

Yep. Sure is a quandry for a criminal like me.

Gosh! What shall I do?

Oh, here's a thought...

I'LL USE A FRIGGIN' REVOLVER.

Duh.

Touchy-feel good crap. They're going to try and ram it down the throats of NY voters this year.

For all of you "...but it won't impinge on your rights!" folks out there, there are people within my state who aren't just advocating the microstamp technology for NEW weapons. They're trying to advocate the banning of any weapon that DOESN'T have a micro-stamped firing pin. See? They aren't saying you can't have a gun, it just needs to have all the special bells and whistles the anit-gun crowd says it should have.

Other attempts at this way around the 2nd amendment have been "...no gun can be sold in NY unless it has electronic 'fingerprinting' technology assigned to the licensed pistol permit holder."

Last year it was, "...no muzzle breaks or flash suppressors" and "...any handgun with a magazine forward of the trigger shall be considered an 'assault weapon' and is hereby considered illegal to own."

There was also the ".50cal 'ASSAULT weapons ban" that would make illegal any weapon capable of firing a cartridge of .49 cal or greater illegal. Regardless of age or type. So a modern black powder rifle or an antique Brown Bess would have to be turned in for confiscation and destruction.

Logic & Reality v. Lefties' CSI myth!

Hey, America is now about feeeeeeeeeelings over facts and logic.

[Walter Sobchak]

^^ that's what I'm talking about right there. It's a fools errand...totally stupid idea dreamed up by some loony beitch from Kalifornia who has never fired a weapon in her stupid Green Peace life.

Well, she may be a sitting Senator from the Golden State, both of whom "pack". They are into the whole double-standard, like most elitists. They need a weapon because they are important, and Senatorial and rich, and we're just, you know... the people!

[domokun]

If it helps law enforcement to solve crimes it is good enough argument for me to support something. Problem with micro printing is that print from guns hammer or striking pin can be filed away by anyone with half of brain still functioning. Another easy way to cause problems for investigators could be just picking up some used brass of same caliber shot with another weapon, those could be most of times eliminated by use proper forensic methods, but still would cause little extra work for police. Another type of gun crime this would most likely not hamper anyway is armed robberies as most of time guns used aren't fired.

Microprint would ease solving other crimes to some extent by making guns traceable even when those would be stolen weapons, by helping to possibly to trace original stealer or seller. Most of criminals use illegal weapons most of time, no one would be that stupid to use legally purchased weapon for crime, at least when crime is planned one.