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Seraphim
07-19-2003, 04:11 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030719/capt.1058625707.afghanistan_freed_prisoners_aw102.jpg


Some of the 16 Afghan prisoners freed from a U.S. military jail in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, walk in line out of the central prison in Kabul, Afghanistan (news - web sites) Saturday, July 19, 2003. The men, mostly between 20 and 30 years old, were brought to Kabul from the U.S. military headquarters at Bagram, north of the capital, on Thursday, but their presence in Afghanistan was not announced until Saturday. Kept at Guantanamo since 2001, the men were handed over to the international Red Cross later Saturday for preparation to return home.(AP Photo/Apichart Weerawong)


By AMIR SHAH, Associated Press Writer

KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghans released after nearly two years in a U.S. military jail in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, on Saturday described conditions as cramped and recounted months of repeated U.S. interrogations and physical discomfort.



The men, mostly between 20 and 30 years old, all looked outwardly healthy, but some prisoners said they were beaten — an allegation the U.S. military disputed.


"Physical coercion is simply not an option. We don't do it. There's no beating," said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a U.S. military spokesman at Guantanamo Bay.


Many of the 16 returned Afghans had unkempt beards and were wearing traditional "shalwar kameez" long shirts and baggy trousers. Some still had shaved heads. They arrived Thursday but their presence in Afghanistan (news - web sites) was not announced until Saturday.


"Who says we were not punished? It's not true," said Abdul Rehman, 29, from Faryab province in northeastern Afghanistan. "They pushed us all over, treated us very badly. They put 24 of us in a small congested room. They also put us into cold rooms."


Rahman said he had been "badly punished 107 times," speaking in an interview with Associated Press Television News at Kabul Central Jail shortly before he and the others were released to the international Red Cross in preparation for their return home.


He alleged that during his 20 months at Guantanamo, his captors had chained his hands and feet and had beaten him with a metal rod on his legs and back, but he refused to show scars that may have resulted from any abuse.


Zabet Ullah, 32, of Kandahar, told The Associated Press in a brief interview as he walked to the Red Cross bus, "There was very bad treatment of the prisoners in Guantanamo. It was against the human rights of the Geneva Conventions."


Nate Gul, 24, from Khost province in eastern Afghanistan, spent 18 months at Guantanamo, and said he was treated well.


"They didn't beat us during the interrogation," Gul said. "They wrote down anything we said. They interrogated me about 30 to 40 times."


Gul said he was held in a small room that looked like a cage, but he said he had towels, shampoo, a toothbrush, blankets, three meals a day and time for prayer.


The Afghans were among 27 detainees, who were released in the past week because they were not considered a threat and had no further information to offer through interrogation. Eleven Pakistanis also returned home Thursday.


Pakistan has been pressing the United States to free its nationals. It's not known how many of the detainees in Guantanamo are Pakistanis.


On Friday, Washington agreed to suspend legal proceedings against Australians and British nationals being held in Guantanamo.


Pakistan wants the same treatment for its nationals.


"We hope that all our people who were taken to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba after their arrest in Afghanistan will also be released," Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said Saturday in the Pakistani capital of Islamabad.


"We hope and expect that they will not be prosecuted," he said.





About 660 prisoners still remain at Guantanamo, Johnson said. Eight new detainees "considered a threat to the United States" arrived at Guantanamo by Friday. They had been detained in Afghanistan, he said.

Police spokesman Ghulam Farooq said he was at Bagram Air Base when the men were brought from Guantanamo.

"When they saw me they were very happy," he said. "One man looked at me and said 'Now I see an Afghan face and I am home. I know I will be OK.'"

One man was ill and was treated in Kabul, Farooq said.

Farooq said the U.S. administration had declared the men innocent.

All those who returned to Afghanistan this week were ethnic Pashtuns. The Taliban militia are largely made up of Pashtuns and many of them said they had been conscripted into the Taliban.

Since the Taliban were toppled from power in 2001 by a U.S.-led coalition, ethnic Pashtuns have complained of discrimination and persecution. One refugee camp in southern Afghanistan is full of Pashtuns who fled attacks by ethnic Tajiks in the north.

The Northern Alliance, which moved into Kabul after the U.S.-led coalition defeated the Taliban, is dominated by ethnic Tajiks, who have been reluctant to build a multiethnic police and army.

Maverick77
07-19-2003, 07:12 PM
Who gives a **** if they were beaten.

Their lucky they werent killed.

budanski
07-19-2003, 08:08 PM
My arabic is a little rusty...Fuq-Um

They can only be so lucky (http://slate.msn.com/id/2083612/). Looks pretty well fed there. Next thing you'll know Amnesty International will call obesity a crime against humanity.

springwheat
07-19-2003, 09:43 PM
The taliban complaining about harsh punishment, inhumane conditions, and poor treatment? Had they not devalued education, they would probably laugh at the irony.

USAF G
07-19-2003, 09:47 PM
Did you know that the prisoners at Gitmo have, on average, gained thirteen pounds each? :roll: It sure is a hard knocks life out there, isn't it? I'm sure they would be much kinder, were our rolls reversed. :cantbeli:

Seraphim
07-20-2003, 01:30 AM
Ya they gained alot of weight that they had to order some new jeans to fit them.

EliteWolf
07-20-2003, 03:23 AM
they think they got it ruff? WHAT ABOUT THE 3000 PEOPLE WHO WERE CRUSHED OR TORCHED TO DEATH IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!?!?!?!?!?

consider yourselves lucky im not warden at guantanimo, id personally thrive watch you all be tortured and killed for what u did! id make u think twice about supporting osama bin ****sucker!

Knave
07-20-2003, 04:39 AM
Of course they say they were beaten. If they merely told their neighbours and friends that they were kept in cramped cells, given a new copy of the Koran to read, hot meals to eat every day, and merely had to answer - or not answer - a few questions under a hot light, then those same family members and neighbours would probably start wanting similar treatment.

They're merely trying to show their fellow Afghans that they've "had it tough, too." It helps them identify and try to re-establish ties with their communities, which have endured hardships before, during and since the Taliban were toppled.

Fargin
07-20-2003, 10:01 AM
And I fear that US approach to the whole ordeal will only infuriate the masses even more.

[Edited]

warchild1/27scout
07-20-2003, 10:33 AM
fargin, let me torch your kids and your wife to death. are you emotionally stable?okay now go identify the foot left in your mothers shoe melted to a damn i-beam. emotionally stable? good man you are. that means you are a better soldier than they are.

usa320
07-20-2003, 10:40 AM
Ive seen alot of ignoramuses, but....

IMHO these guys got off VERY EASY for the crime which the commited...

While tehy got hot meals, a koran, a new cell, new pants and whatever else they whined to Amnesty for, our firemen were shifting through debris piles that were hundreds of feet high looking for even the slightest piece of a body to give someone closure to the horrendous way that thousands of lives were ended...

They should have had to go to real jail, the convicts would have beat the **** out of em.

duck
07-20-2003, 10:47 AM
Excuse me, but I don't think anybody that actually committed crimes will be released just like that. I can remember reading somewhere that some of the detainees are not suspected of any crime or even terrorist act but are kept for interrogation and pre-emptive purposes. In fact you can read in the news story that they are now, after extensive interrogation, considered "innocent". So, which crime are you talking about?

maw
07-20-2003, 01:44 PM
beaten? wtf! you're lucky we didn't skull **** you, you sad pathetic ass scabs.

the actions inflicted on neil roberts post capture defined the "rules of engagement" as far as i'm concerned. especially if you happen to be a chechen #$%%$%#@.

if i was the man in the ivory tower at that time, i would have emptied all of gitmo and corraled the ****ers onto a couple of c130's, taken them for a little flight out over the ocean and taught 'em how to flap.
no questions, no pleading, no chutes, just 30 seconds of quality prayer time you %^*&@!$ %^@@#$%!

the rag's got fat on our dime and are now bitching about it - whats next jenny %$#*^@ craig? it makes my blood boil!!!!!!!!!

this is my position and i am holding it with everything i've got. care to come try take it? 'coz i'm not budging an inch. you think any of those %$@*# ^$@#$%@ have even read the geneva convention. you suppose for a second if the tables were reversed what the situation would be like.

duck, i'm not going to get into one with you here, but man, you completely missed the whole point.

maw
07-20-2003, 03:46 PM
thanks hood. sorry, i got a bit colorful there.

martinexsquaddie
07-20-2003, 03:50 PM
Sooooooooo if there highly dangerous Terrorists why are they being released?

RealUltimatePower
07-20-2003, 05:43 PM
Fargin don't be a ****. Elitewolf has every right to be hateful of those terrorists. And is not obligated in any way to forgive them ever. I am in agreement with what he said and I can asure you I am not emotionally unstable. I think these terrorists don't deserve anything in ways of sympathy or fair treatment.
My grandfather for example still to this day hates Germany, Italy and Japan. Even though we are now allys. He will never be able to forgive them and he doesn't have to.
And I really hope that the majority of people from Denmark don't have a problem with calling bin laden a ****sucker.

Argyll
07-20-2003, 05:45 PM
Considering that Bin Laden and most of the perpetrators of 9/11 were Saudis,why so much venomous hatred towards these Afghans?
Is there a difference between Taliban captives and Iraqi captives?Both commited acts of aggresion on the battlefield against US troops!Both were behind a brutal regime............so why treat them differently?
On both occcasions they were doing what you and I would if an act of aggression was commited against our countries on our own soil,you'd defend it............so whats the difference?
As much as 9/11 was the ultimate act of terrorism,some of you guys need to stop using it as an excuse to justify various actions being taken by your Government,who's going to be next?
Warchild can I ask a personal Question,were you describing your mother's foot and shoe,if you were then I am sorry and pass on my deepest sympathy!,If not then you have no right to use someone elses loss to try and get the blood boiling,you said you served in the Military,then perhaps the best way to get rid of the hatred towards OBL,and every terrorist harbouring nation! is to rejoin and shoot bullets instead of your mouth,volunteer to be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan,and do your duty.I seem to remember that during the 80's the US harboured IRA terrorists,but certain sections of the Country prefered to call them freedom fighters.....whats the difference?
Now before everyone suddenly goes ballistic,I will say that I am all in agreement about the circumstances of the detainees,and I'm sure that Executions will take place,and so what if theres a few innocent lives will be lost,but this is the 21st Century,and we no longer work on the "eye for an eye" saying,we are supposed to be more civilised are we not.But
for a Nation that prides itself on its judicial sytem,then let due process take its course,execute the guilty if that's the case but let the innocent feel what you uphold most dearly ..............Freedom!

Beowulf
07-20-2003, 05:58 PM
The problem is that not everyone in gitmo was/is not necessarily a terrorist, it's very difficult to id these people and it takes time to make sure you've actually got a terrorist.

But no one wants to be the guy who let a terrorist go, so they probably have quite a few folks that were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and just need to be questioned before they can be released.

The harsh rhetoric should be saved for those who have actually been verifiably involved in SAEDA, terrorism, or combat operations against the US.
All Best
beowulf

martinexsquaddie
07-20-2003, 06:02 PM
HERE HERE
The military Tribuninals look from an outsider viewpoint Dodgy as hell
especailly as the American caught fighting with the taliban got a trial in a proper court. The whole Gitmo thing has been a PR disaster from day one :lol:

Argyll
07-20-2003, 06:41 PM
B'wulf!!
Excellent points there!
Perhaps a touch of Catch 22 in a sense regarding the rest?

Fargin
07-20-2003, 09:58 PM
Yes my first post wasn't very sensible, I appologieze and Edit it. I'll try to expressing my thoughts a little less offensive. I would describe my feelings towards US as ambivalent. I Basicly love anything American, except your foreign policy, giant media corporations and your daytime-talkshows.

-As for the danish majority, Denmark is divided pro and con. Denmark did send forces to both Afghanistan and Iraq, few but still a symbolic value.

It doesn't take much to recall the nausia and anger I felt that awefull day. We were all your brothers then, but 9/11 do not grant you a carte blanch to do everyting unquestioned. I did not support Iraq or Camp Xray, but I respect those who serve and pay sometimes the ultimate price.

I think even captured terrorists needs a fair trial, it's what seperates us from primitive barbarians or religious fundamentalists IMO. Dostoevsky said something like: The degree of civilisation in a society can be judged by the way it treats its prisoners(No quotationmarks, don't remember his exact words). If any captured alledged terrorist get shot without a fair trial, I'll have difficulties telling who is fighting on the axis of "good".


Conserning forgiveness:
My grandfather forgave the germans long time before he passed away. He asked that we stopped putting lit candles in the windows on Denmarks liberation day. He said it was time to move on. His platoon was one of the few that actually put up a fight when Denmark was occupied by the Germans. He left a wife pregnant with twins, spending the rest of the war in a german prisson. His bother lead the youth chapter of the Danish communist party, and survived a visit to a concentration camp.

If he could forgive the german people, atleast I want to try too(I might fail though).

[Spelling/Grammar disclaimer: I speak english like a native, ...a native german.]

Seiyuuki
07-21-2003, 12:04 AM
...Dostoevsky said something like: The degree of civilisation in a society can be judged by the way it treats its prisoners(No quotationmarks, don't remember his exact words)...

I might be wrong, but I believe beside "its prisoners," it is also, "its pets and its elderlies."

FallenAngel
07-21-2003, 01:31 AM
wow....a cold room? My god....how insensitive of us to put you in a cold room. Jesus....Gitmo isn't a f*cking 4 star hotel! It's a god-damn prison. :cantbeli:

martinexsquaddie
07-21-2003, 08:59 AM
where'd they find a cold room in cuba :lol:

Smintjes
07-21-2003, 10:41 AM
Yes my first post wasn't very sensible, I appologieze and Edit it. I'll try to expressing my thoughts a little less offensive. I would describe my feelings towards US as ambivalent. I Basicly love anything American, except your foreign policy, giant media corporations and your daytime-talkshows.

-As for the danish majority, Denmark is divided pro and con. Denmark did send forces to both Afghanistan and Iraq, few but still a symbolic value.

It doesn't take much to recall the nausia and anger I felt that awefull day. We were all your brothers then, but 9/11 do not grant you a carte blanch to do everyting unquestioned. I did not support Iraq or Camp Xray, but I respect those who serve and pay sometimes the ultimate price.

I think even captured terrorists needs a fair trial, it's what seperates us from primitive barbarians or religious fundamentalists IMO. Dostoevsky said something like: The degree of civilisation in a society can be judged by the way it treats its prisoners(No quotationmarks, don't remember his exact words). If any captured alledged terrorist get shot without a fair trial, I'll have difficulties telling who is fighting on the axis of "good".


Conserning forgiveness:
My grandfather forgave the germans long time before he passed away. He asked that we stopped putting lit candles in the windows on Denmarks liberation day. He said it was time to move on. His platoon was one of the few that actually put up a fight when Denmark was occupied by the Germans. He left a wife pregnant with twins, spending the rest of the war in a german prisson. His bother lead the youth chapter of the Danish communist party, and survived a visit to a concentration camp.

If he could forgive the german people, atleast I want to try too(I might fail though).

[Spelling/Grammar disclaimer: I speak english like a native, ...a native german.]

I couldn't agree more. Well said.