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usa320
06-24-2004, 09:08 PM
Sudan sounds like tis getting really bad...i think that the UN should take action... too many people are dying over there that dont necessarily need to. Definately reminiscent of Somalia in 1991.


UNITED NATIONS - Satellite photos show that about 56,000 houses have been destroyed in nearly 400 villages in fighting in the Darfur region of western Sudan and the destruction has spread into neighboring Chad, the U.S. aid chief said Thursday.

Andrew Natsios, administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, blamed the devastation on Arab militias known as the Janjaweed which have killed and routed local Africans and are linked to the Sudanese government.

U.S. experts estimate that about 400,000 people once lived in the 56,000 mud brick houses with conical-shaped roofs known as tukels that were destroyed in Darfur, he said. Thousands more lived in 32 villages across the border in Chad that have been destroyed or damaged.

"There's no doubt that this is going on on a massive scale, and the Janjaweed are responsible," Natsios by telephone.

Natsios said no one knows how many of the people who lost their homes were killed, but between 10,000 and 30,000 Sudanese are estimated to have died in the fighting which began in February 2003.

He warned that time is running out to help 2 million Sudanese in desperate need of aid in Darfur.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell plans to visit Darfur next week to assess the situation. So does U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

"This is a catastrophe," Powell told reporters in Washington. "It is incumbent on the international community to come together solidly to do everything we can to bring it to an end."

Asked what message he is taking to Sudanese officials, Powell said: "Let the aid flow freely. Let the humanitarian workers in. Use government forces and political influence to end the attacks."

Natsios said the latest weekly assessment of conditions in the 36 camps for displaced people in Darfur showed that security was poor and those taking refuge faced attacks or threats of attacks.

The camps aren't run by anybody, he said. "That's the problem."

Natsios said his agency's estimate that 350,000 Sudanese could die of disease and malnutrition over the next nine months "is conservative."

Deaths will increase with the spread of disease during the rainy season, which just began and peaks in November and December, he said.

The U.S. Agency for International Development started buying commercial satellite photos of Darfur about two months ago and receives a new batch weekly to track the impact of the fighting, he said.

The images have provided the first photographic evidence of the destruction, Natsios said.

"In a functional village you see trees because villagers plant trees for shade and for fruit, and the houses will all have cone-shaped roofs made of grass. And you can see ... animals - goats, cows, dogs - and you'll see people walking around," he said.

In destroyed villages, he said, "you can see the walls, which means the roofs have been burned down or destroyed, and you won't see any animals, any people, or any trees because they've been all burned."

USAID released updated figures Thursday saying satellite photos of 578 villages in the Darfur region found that 301 were destroyed, 76 damaged and 199 intact. Two were determined to be old ruins.

The U.S. agency also obtained photographs of 87 villages in Chad, in the area bordering Darfur, and reported that eight were destroyed, 24 damaged and 55 intact. More than 100,000 refugees from western Sudan have fled across the border into Chad.

The fighting started when African tribes in Darfur rebelled against what they regarded as unjust treatment by the Sudanese government in their struggle over land and resources with Arab countrymen.

Last week, Annan said the United Nations asked the Sudanese government to take steps to contain the Janjaweed. The government denies any complicity in the militia attacks, blaming the trouble in Darfur on rebels and criminal gangs, but Annan said, "from all accounts, they can do something about the Janjaweed."

Natsios, who met Annan at the United Nations on Wednesday, said there is no doubt that the militia are responsible for destroying the houses, because hundreds of Sudanese refugees have told USAID staff and human rights groups the same story: Helicopter gunships attacked their villages and the Janjaweed then rode in, killing the men and

usa320
06-24-2004, 10:20 PM
apparently no one cares?

:|

seruriermarshal
06-24-2004, 10:29 PM
That's a major problem , but seems like Iraq's problem that bigger .

:(

usa320
06-24-2004, 10:34 PM
The huge problem here is Iran...if theres one country we should truly be concerned with its them.

They are the #1 state sponsor of terrorism. They have a brutal fundementalist regime. They have already carried out acts of terror on US citizens. They have agents in Iraq undermining our efforts to establish a democracy. Even more disconcerting is the fact that they are enriching large amounts of Uranium and stockpiling blister agents... And the evidence of this is undisputable- theyve admitted to it themselves, which only backs up various HUMINT and SIGINT.... Plus them moving battallions to the Iraqi border... Now the taking of the brits...

We cant win the war on terror unless we deal with Iran in some way.

Same goes for Syria.

Vance
06-24-2004, 10:36 PM
I don't really care for 3rd world countries anymore.

usa320
06-24-2004, 10:40 PM
Its that mentality vance that got us in the hole int he first place. If we just ignore problems they will only get worse and worse.

ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð
06-24-2004, 10:43 PM
Its that mentality vance that got us in the hole int he first place. If we just ignore problems they will only get worse and worse.

This time I gotta agree with you usa320, the more you ignore them the worse off the situation gets.

seruriermarshal
06-24-2004, 10:44 PM
The huge problem here is Iran...if theres one country we should truly be concerned with its them.

They are the #1 state sponsor of terrorism. They have a brutal fundementalist regime. They have already carried out acts of terror on US citizens. They have agents in Iraq undermining our efforts to establish a democracy. Even more disconcerting is the fact that they are enriching large amounts of Uranium and stockpiling blister agents... And the evidence of this is undisputable- theyve admitted to it themselves, which only backs up various HUMINT and SIGINT.... Plus them moving battallions to the Iraqi border... Now the taking of the brits...

We cant win the war on terror unless we deal with Iran in some way.

Same goes for Syria.


But Now , to the danger we haven't more troops , and I think we goal first is Iraq (key is Fallujah)

Vance
06-24-2004, 10:47 PM
Its that mentality vance that got us in the hole int he first place. If we just ignore problems they will only get worse and worse.
And we go over there and they hate us.

usa320
06-24-2004, 10:48 PM
WE dont necesarilly need more troops. We just need to field more Stryker Brigades, UAV's...ect... not so much a massive force but a more trained, more mobile and better equiped force.

seruriermarshal
06-24-2004, 11:04 PM
WE dont necesarilly need more troops. We just need to field more Stryker Brigades, UAV's...ect... not so much a massive force but a more trained, more mobile and better equiped force.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040624/capt.ny20506241919.iraq_handover_ny205.jpg

But look these , I always think need more UAV and new weapon , SF , not more soldiers . I believe if a IED attack this M2 , then these Iraqi will glad , but we can't fire .

:(

Uncle Chô
06-25-2004, 08:38 AM
Sudan sounds like tis getting really bad...i think that the UN should take action... Definately reminiscent of Somalia in 1991.
It is surprising how you gain a sudden new interest for the UN when it comes to put your hands in the sh**... How about the USA?

BTW...

Somalia : area is 627,337 sq km / population is +- 8,304,601

Sudan : area is 2.376 million sq km (slightly more than one-quarter the size of the USA) / population is +- 39,148,162

Don't you see any difference for a "police action"?


... too many people are dying over there that dont necessarily need to...
:cantbeli: :cantbeli:

I think you "think" too much usa320...

usa320
06-25-2004, 01:04 PM
okay Uncle Chode.

Marsuitor
06-25-2004, 01:14 PM
Just saw a press converence with Mr. Annan, he's heading there to see the situation out for himself. There's also been mobilized quite an operation to get aid in. Looks like something is finally on the move.
However, why there are no soldiers there yet, IMO, is the result of UN fumbling and a blind eye from the world.

usa320
06-25-2004, 05:12 PM
I agree. The UN is utterly useless because everything they do takes months. By time they agree on a plan of action its too late.

Mongrel
06-25-2004, 05:21 PM
Maybe their problem is they need oil fields, and maybe a Diamond mine or two.

Also since we are on the same planet eventualy these "third world" problems pay us a visit eventualy...in the form of disease, and warmongering dictators.

Methinks the UN needs it own military force.

GrimmyRX
06-25-2004, 08:44 PM
Just saw a press converence with Mr. Annan, he's heading there to see the situation out for himself. There's also been mobilized quite an operation to get aid in. Looks like something is finally on the move.
However, why there are no soldiers there yet, IMO, is the result of UN fumbling and a blind eye from the world.

Oh, that's funny. Blame a organisation that has just enough money to keep all it's employees paid + Aid to countries that need it, and which has no military power on it's own.

"However, why there are no soldiers there yet, IMO, is the result of UN fumbling and a blind eye from the world."

Blind eye from the world? Yeah, more than likely that was the only reason. If the world doesn't care, the UN CAN'T do anything, because, hey, look at that, the UN is made up of nations of the world. Mr. Annon can't really do much by himself you know.


I agree. The UN is utterly useless because everything they do takes months. By time they agree on a plan of action its too late.

You know the easiest way to get through that? Let the Leader of the UN, however he may be, command a force much like the Marines. Thus, if he sees something like, lets say Somolia, or the Sudan. he can send them out quickly, and get authorization from the S.C or the other governing body of the UN later.

But until such time as we see the UN develop it's own military might, things like these are gonna keep on happening.

Fintin
06-25-2004, 09:23 PM
i dont think force will help...it hasnt done much good in a third world country...though if we use what we have learned from somalia and apply it things might work...i dont know im kinda rambling

talib_killa34
06-25-2004, 10:32 PM
Sudan could use a full on US invasion. The cause would be just (Just like in IRAQ, HA! There I said it!) and the people there need someone to save their lives.


However, then we would just be seen as another warmongering colonial power come to "crusade" against more poor muslims who are acting in the name of a god they do not comprehend, but are willing to kill for.

Bush will be bashed by Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon asking "Why are we at war with Sudan, they never did anything to us."

It is NOT the US's place to invade that country and get itself involved in yet another third world quagmire. But that is what it will take really.

But how can anyone say, "No, let them die.."?

Rwanda, once again. Moore should blast Clinton for his and the world's inaction too.

usa320
06-25-2004, 10:54 PM
THis, like Iraq, Like somalia is a damned if you do, damned if you dont. If we dont go in, we will be seen as neglecting people in need. If we do, its obviously an invasion to spread the will of the Zionists and opress the poor.

Frankly i rather go in and save lives and be ridiculed now, but have people praise my action in 30 years than not go in and watch a million people die.

Durring his presidency, many people disliked Ronald Reagan's actions. But now in retrospect everyone realize how much good his policies did for the world. I think Bush is in the same boat. Right now people might bitch about them, but those same people's children will look back in 30 years and realize that the world is safer because he was president.

Pandy
06-26-2004, 12:04 AM
ahh, my third world country is coming together :) - Well, any of you guys got any cheap airlines that can fly me to Sudan?

Bayonet
06-26-2004, 12:26 AM
I agree. The UN is utterly useless because everything they do takes months. By time they agree on a plan of action its too late.

I agreed.....