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View Full Version : Top Iraqi Rebel Leaders Speak, Amazing Interview!



OB Kenobi
06-25-2004, 04:24 AM
I'm sure much of this is disinformation, but there's some very interesting claims here...

'The liberation of Baghdad is not far away'
By Alix de la Grange
Asia Times

BAGHDAD - On the eve of the so-called transfer of sovereignty to the new Iraqi caretaker government on June 30, former Saddam Hussein generals turned members of the elite of the Iraqi resistance movement have abandoned their clandestine positions for a while to explain their version of events and talk about their plans. According to these Ba'ath officials, "the big battle" in Iraq is yet to take place.

"The Americans have prepared the war, we have prepared the post-war. And the transfer of power on June 30 will not change anything regarding our objectives. This new provisional government appointed by the Americans has no legitimacy in our eyes. They are nothing but puppets."

Why have these former officers waited so long to come out of their closets? "Because today we are sure we're going to win."

Secret rendezvous

Palestine Hotel, Tuesday, 3pm. One week after a formal request, the prospect of talking with the resistance is getting slimmer. We reach a series of dead ends - until a man we have never met before discreetly approaches our table. "You still want to meet members of the resistance?" He speaks to my associate, a female Arab journalist who has been to Iraq many times. Talk is brief. "We meet tomorrow morning at the Babel Hotel," the man says before disappearing. Against all expectations, this contact seems to be more reliable than the ones we have previously tried.

Hotel Babel, Wednesday, 9am. At the entrance of the cybercafe, mobbed by foreign mercenaries [No doubt clamoring to read my posts on militaryphotos.net... -OBK :D ], the man we saw the day before lays it down: "Tomorrow, 10 o'clock, al-Saadoun Street, in front of the Palestine. Come without your driver."

We arrive at the meeting place on Thursday morning by taxi. The contact is there. After a brief "Salam Alekum" we get into his car. "Where are we going?" No reply.

We drive for more than two hours. In Baghdad, even when traffic is not totally blocked by military checkpoints, traffic jams are permanent. In one year, more than 300,000 vehicles have been smuggled into the country. Every other car has no license plate and most drivers don't even know what "driver's license" means.

"We'll be there soon. Do you know Baghdad?", asks our man. The answer is clearly no. To get oriented in the sprawling city, one must circulate freely, and on foot. With criminal behavior spreading like a virus, a wave of kidnappings, the 50 or 60 daily attacks against the occupation forces and the indiscriminate response of the American military, there's hardly any incentive to do any walking.

The car stops in an alley, near a minibus with tinted windows. One of its doors opens. On board, there are three men and a driver carefully scrutinizing all the streets and houses around us. If we don't know at all what we are confronted with, our interlocutors seem to know very well who they're talking to. "Before any discussions, we don't want any doubts on your part about our identities," they say, while extracting some papers from inside a dusty plastic bag: identity cards, military IDs and several photos showing them in uniform beside Saddam Hussein. They are two generals and a colonel of the disbanded Iraqi army, now on the run for many months, chased by the coalition's intelligence services.

"We would like to rectify some information now circulating in the Western media, that's why we took the initiative of meeting you." Our discussion lasts for more than three hours.

Back to the fall of Baghdad

"We knew that if the United States decided to attack Iraq, we would have no chance faced with their technological and military power. The war was lost in advance, so we prepared the post-war. In other words: the resistance. Contrary to what has been largely said, we did not desert after American troops entered the center of Baghdad on April 5, 2003. We fought a few days for the honor of Iraq - not Saddam Hussein - then we received orders to disperse." Baghdad fell on April 9: Saddam and his army where nowhere to be seen.

"As we have foreseen, strategic zones fell quickly under control of the Americans and their allies. For our part, it was time to execute our plan. Opposition movements to the occupation were already organized. Our strategy was not improvised after the regime fell." This plan B, which seems to have totally eluded the Americans, was carefully organized, according to these officers, for months if not years before March 20, 2003, the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The objective was "to liberate Iraq and expel the coalition. To recover our sovereignty and install a secular democracy, but not the one imposed by the Americans. Iraq has always been a progressive country, we don't want to go back to the past, we want to move forward. We have very competent people," say the three tacticians. There will be of course no names as well as no precise numbers concerning the clandestine network. "We have sufficient numbers, one thing we don't lack is volunteers."

Fallujah

The lethal offensive of the American troops in Fallujah in March has been the turning point as far as the resistance is concerned. The indiscriminate pillage by American soldiers during their search missions (according to many witnesses) and the ****** humiliation inflicted to prisoners, including Abu Ghraib in Baghdad, have only served to magnify the anger felt by most Iraqis. "There's no more trust, it will be hard to regain it." According to these resistance leaders, "We have reached the point of no return."

This is exactly the point of view of a Shi'ite woman we had met two days earlier - a former undercover opposition militant against Saddam: "The biggest mistake of the occupation forces was to despise our traditions and our culture. They are not satisfied with having bombed our infrastructure, they tried to destroy our social system and our dignity. And this we cannot allow. The wounds are deep and the healing will take long. We prefer to live under the terror of one of our own than under the humiliation of a foreign occupation."

According to Saddam's generals, "more than a year after the beginning of the war, insecurity and anarchy still dominate the country. Because of their incapacity to control the situation and to maintain their promises, the Americans have antagonized the population as a whole. The resistance is not limited to a few thousand activists. Seventy-five percent of the population supports us and helps us, directly and indirectly, volunteering information, hiding combatants or weapons. And all this despite the fact that many civilians are caught as collateral damage in operations against the coalition and collaborators."

Who do they regard as "collaborators"? "Every Iraqi or foreigner who works with the coalition is a target. Ministries, mercenaries, translators, businessmen, cooks or maids, it doesn't matter the degree of collaboration. To sign a contract with the occupier is to sign your death certificate. Iraqi or not, these are traitors. Don't forget that we are at war."

The resistance's means of dissuasion led to an ever-shrinking list of candidates to key government posts proposed by the coalition, and this in a country ravaged by 13 years of embargo and two wars where unemployment has been a crucial problem. The ambient chaos is not the only reason preventing people from resuming professional activity. If the Americans, quickly overwhelmed by the whole situation, had to take the decision to reinstate former Ba'athists (policemen, secret service agents, military, officials at the oil ministry), this does not apply to everybody. The majority of victims of administrator L Paul Bremer's decree of May 16, 2003 applying the de-Ba'athification of Iraq is still clandestine.

The network

Essentially composed by Ba'athists (Sunni and Shi'ite), the resistance currently regroups "all movements of national struggle against the occupation, without confessional, ethnic or political distinction. Contrary to what you imagine in the West, there is no fratricide war in Iraq. We have a united front against the enemy. From Fallujah to Ramadi, and including Najaf, Karbala and the Shi'ite suburbs of Baghdad, combatants speak with a single voice. As to the young Shi'ite leader Muqtada al-Sadr, he is, like ourselves, in favor of the unity of the Iraqi people, multiconfessional and Arab. We support him from a tactical and logistical perspective."

Every Iraqi region has its own combatants and each faction is free to choose its targets and its modus operandi. But as time goes by, their actions are increasingly coordinated. Saddam's generals insist there is no rivalry among these different organizations, except on one point: which one will eliminate the largest number of Americans.

Weapons of choice

"The attacks are meticulously prepared. They must not last longer than 20 minutes and we operate preferably at night or very early in the morning to limit the risks of hitting Iraqi civilians." They anticipate our next question: "No, we don't have weapons of mass destruction. On the other hand, we have more than 50 million conventional weapons." By the initiative of Saddam, a real arsenal was concealed all over Iraq way before the beginning of the war. No heavy artillery, no tanks, no helicopters, but Katyushas, mortars (which the Iraqis call haoun), anti-tank mines, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and other Russian-made rocket launchers, missiles, AK 47s and substantial reserves of all sorts of ammunition. And the list is far from being extensive.

But the most efficient weapon remains the Kamikazes. A special unit, composed of 90% Iraqis and 10% foreign fighters, with more than 5,000 solidly-trained men and women, they need no more than a verbal order to drive a vehicle loaded with explosives.

What if the weapons' reserves dwindle? "No worries, for some time we have been making our own weapons." That's all they are willing to disclose. [I don't think he wants to admit that they're smuggling weapons -OBK]

Claiming responsibility

"Yes, we have executed the four American mercenaries in Fallujah last March. On the other hand, the Americans soldiers waited for four hours before removing the bodies, while they usually do it in less than 20 minutes. Two days earlier, a young married woman had been arbitrarily arrested. For the population of Fallujah, this was the last straw, so they expressed their full rage against the four cadavers. The Americans, they did much worse to living Iraqi prisoners."

The suicide attack which provoked the death of Akila al-Hashimi, a diplomat and member of the Iraqi Governing Council on September 22, 2003, was also perpetrated by the resistance, as well as the car bomb which killed the president of the Iraqi executive body Ezzedin Salim in May 17 this year at the entrance of the Green Zone (which Iraqis call the Red Zone, due to the number of resistance offensives).

They are also responsible for the kidnapping of foreigners. "We are aware that the kidnapping of foreign nationals blemishes our image, but try to understand the situation. We are forced to control the identity of people circulating in our territory. If we have proof that they are humanitarians or journalists we release them. If they are spies, mercenaries or collaborators we execute them. On this matter, let's be clear, we are not responsible for the death of Nick Berg, the American who was beheaded."

As to the attack against the UN headquarters in Baghdad on August 20, 2003: "We have never issued an order to attack the UN and we had a lot of esteem towards the Brazilian Sergio Vieira de Mello [special UN representative who died in the attack], but it's not impossible that the authors of this suicide attack come from another resistance group. As we have explained, we don't control everything. And we must not forget that the UN is responsible for the 13 years of embargo we have endured."

What about the October 27, 2003 attack against the Red Cross in Baghdad? "This had nothing to do with us, we always had a lot of respect for this organization and the people who work for them. What would be our interest to attack one of the few institutions which has been helping the Iraq population for years? We know that people from Fallujah have claimed this attack, but we can assure you they are not part of the resistance. And we also add: for political and economic reasons, there are many who have an interest in discrediting us."

After June 30

"Resolution 1546 adopted on June 8 is nothing but one more web of lies to the eyes of many Iraqis. First, because it officially ends the occupation by foreign troops while authorizing the presence of a multinational force under American command, without stipulating the date of their removal. Second, because the Iraqi right to veto important military operations, demanded by France, Russia and China, was rejected. Washington has conceded only a vague notion of partnership with the Iraqi authority and did not think of anything in case of disagreement. Iraqis are not fools, the maintenance of American troops in Iraq after June 30 and the aid money they will get from the American Congress leave no doubt over the identity of who will really rule the country."

What about a possible role for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO)? "If NATO intervenes, it's not to help our people, but to help the Americans leave this quagmire. If they wanted our well-being, they would have made a move before," say the three officers while looking at their watches. It's late and we have largely exceeded our allotted time.

"What American troops cannot do today, NATO troops won't be able to do later on. Everyone must know: Western troops will be regarded by Iraqis as occupiers. This is something that George W Bush and his faithful ally Tony Blair will do well to think about. If they have won a battle, they have not won the war yet. The great battle is still to begin. The liberation of Baghdad is not far away."

ZeroPositive
06-25-2004, 04:26 AM
Bunch of C*nts.... hope they get it...

OB Kenobi
06-25-2004, 02:55 PM
Bunch of C*nts.... hope they get it...

Think they're telling the truth that Saddam planned for the invasion far in advance? Yes/no?

Vance
06-25-2004, 03:03 PM
No, we don't have weapons of mass destruction.
Oh wow, a rag-tag resistance has no weapons of mass destruction. Shouldn't EVERY resistance group have WMD though? :roll:

Old300
06-25-2004, 03:19 PM
Look at polls of Iraqis.

In the months immediately following the invasion, most Iraqis supported the coalition and were overwhelmingly in favor of the war.

Since then, such support has decreased substantially, to the point where only about 2% of Iraqis still think we're "liberators".

Nevertheless, most Iraqis polled are still glad that Saddam is gone and support the interim government.

In other words Iraqis used to love us, but they don't anymore. That sucks, but it's understandable, regardless of our postwar conduct.

The important thing to keep in mind now is that Iraqis are, statistically speaking, willing to give the new government a chance. Something like 7% of Iraqis think that things will be worse after the handover than they were today.

That's the kind of data that directly contradicts the notion that this is a popular uprising. The people who are killing Iraqis day in and day out do not represent Iraqi public opinion.

They're not freedom fighters. They don't deserve our sympathy. They're killers targeting Iraqi civilians. They're scum, and if we don't kill them, hopefully their countrymen will.

2Sheds_Jackson
06-25-2004, 03:47 PM
Things will change very rapidly after 30 JUN. Since so many Iraqis support the interim govt, any attacks will be seen for what they have been all along - nothing more than self-serving. The attacks are not being carried out by forces trying to "liberate" Iraq from the coalition. They are trying to install themselves in power.

If the Iraqis are running the law enforcement infrastructure, we should prepare for reports of mass executions of insurgents. They're not going to be as intimidated by bad press as the coalition was.

Secret Squirrel
06-25-2004, 04:20 PM
Things will change very rapidly after 30 JUN. Since so many Iraqis support the interim govt, any attacks will be seen for what they have been all along - nothing more than self-serving. The attacks are not being carried out by forces trying to "liberate" Iraq from the coalition. They are trying to install themselves in power.

If the Iraqis are running the law enforcement infrastructure, we should prepare for reports of mass executions of insurgents. They're not going to be as intimidated by bad press as the coalition was.

You really think anything is going to change after June 30th? Bush has been creating this mis-conception that Iraq will be saved after the handover, almost to the point that Iraqi independence will be final. Bosina took 10years, who wants to start laying down bets on Iraq?

Black Dots
06-25-2004, 04:25 PM
You really think anything is going to change after June 30th? Bush has been creating this mis-conception that Iraq will be saved after the handover, almost to the point that Iraqi independence will be final. Bosina took 10years, who wants to start laying down bets on Iraq?

If the Iraqi government isn't able to pacify the country in an orderly an efficient way, their support base would most likely wane.

n4292936
06-25-2004, 04:29 PM
I think it should get better when direct elections are instituted - at least this has been the proclamation of several resistance figures.

....and yes, circumstantial evidence, aside from the above article, seems to point to the fact that the resistance was planned to some degree. I doubt the shiite resistance was, but there have definitely some elements of the former Army that have secreted away an arsenal which they are drawing on now, an arsenal which foreign fighters and the influx of terrorists also appear able to be draw on.

usa320
06-25-2004, 04:41 PM
They are a bunch of ****s...

Zarquawi narrowly escaped death again today... a GBU-12 hit a building he was just about to enter after stepping out of a car... He was knocked down by the blast and quickly got back into to the car and sped off...

Im guessing that the predator was able to follow the car for some time, and chances are another strike is probably imminent.

Secret Squirrel
06-25-2004, 04:46 PM
I think it should get better when direct elections are instituted - at least this has been the proclamation of several resistance figures.

....and yes, circumstantial evidence, aside from the above article, seems to point to the fact that the resistance was planned to some degree. I doubt the shiite resistance was, but there have definitely some elements of the former Army that have secreted away an arsenal which they are drawing on now, an arsenal which foreign fighters and the influx of terrorists also appear able to be draw on.

the weapons were already hidden before the invasion because Iraqi generals planned for a 3 to 4 month war with the U.N stepping into stop it. To think Saddam planned for an insurgency after the invasion is without basis; it would simply have been too stupid for even Saddam to consider. Also, considering that various terrorists groups have entered Iraq, Saddam couldnt have planned on that factor.

vryhpyammoadded
06-25-2004, 04:46 PM
Think they're telling the truth that Saddam planned for the invasion far in advance? Yes/no?

If I were a stubborn Iraqi or Baathist patriot with a little education I’d remember tactics used by guerilla fighters throughout history against the US. Of course he and his thugs knew. They were not stupid, a bit overconfident and brutal maybe but not stupid. It’s no surprise they hope to stab the new government in the back and make one they claim is true Iraqi.
There really wasn’t much unexpected in that article.

Selfish, ignorant, greedy little bullies. I’m so tiered of the (insert movement) zealot being righteous and invincible so the big bad oppressing empire should run away cliché. These guys are probably thrilled the US took out Saddam so one of them could take his place.
I can’t wait to see the blood bath (sarcasm)

Mongrel
06-25-2004, 05:00 PM
Methinks it is time to let them kill each other of over their country, and the foriegn troops to go home, and mend their wounds. I don't think anything else could be done right now. It is their country, Saddam is gone, time to leave. Just my two bitz.

Cheers!
M.

usa320
06-25-2004, 05:05 PM
No. You cant pull out. It will a great power vacuum that would end up putting us worse off. Someone like Zarquawi or Al-Sadr could set up a regime similar to that of Iran, which would be a huge threat to world peace and national security.

It would also be seen in the Arab world as America abandoning the Iraqi people, who are in need of as much help as they can get.

Mongrel
06-25-2004, 05:35 PM
A power vacume is going to happen anyway...this could go on for the next 10 years, as long as the scumbag insurgents are on the prowl.

From where I sit things are not looking very good...esp' with the new weapons being poured into the country, and to me its starting to look like a war of attrition. How long will this war get support from the voters?

M.

rokus2595
06-25-2004, 05:45 PM
If there is one thing clear here in North America, is that Iraqis have no voice. The daily propaganda coming out of the US administration seems to be out of alignment from the realities of Iraq: No, the country is not getting any more peaceful, the transfer of 'power' is but a token gesture from the Occupiers, as they will still have control over the military. Violence is rampant, and it is directed towards the American occupiers as much as to any Iraqis who help them.

It is interesting to note what the Iraqis in the article say about Iraqis fighting Iraqis, and it is not a strech of the imagination to think that that is also a lie propagated by Washington to convice the US public that the Middle East would be in worse shape if they leave than if they stay.

Obviously, that is possible, just as it is also possible that if the Americans were to be kick out of Iraq, for the the Shiites of Iraq and Iran to unite, representing a challenge to the US goal of controlling that oil rich region.

Argyll
06-25-2004, 10:58 PM
So many experts..........shame they're all talking ****e :cantbeli:

Tane Angle
06-25-2004, 11:14 PM
Top of the morning to you, Argyll. How's life treating you?

PS: Iraqi Shiites joining Iran is pretty unlikely. It would seem that most Iraqi Shiites, while concious of the fact that most Iranians are also Shiites, are not pushing for the two nations to join as one. There are strong cultural differences across the border. Also, I can't even see it it being pushed for from the other side of the border. While the theocrats of Iran might want to control Iraq, it would be out of character for them to take it over. The theocrats have "exported their revolution," but they do not have much of a history of outright staking land as their own. Of course, who wouldn't like some nice oil fields?

My guess? The theocrats might like to control Iraq, but it would be most surprising to see anything as official as the erasing of borders.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

usa320
06-25-2004, 11:16 PM
right tane...that was just crude.

Tane Angle
06-25-2004, 11:36 PM
Even if we disagree, let's still be cordial and respectful(and thus more respectable) of others, no? That's a general request, not just directed at one user, and I mean that. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

American Patriot
06-25-2004, 11:42 PM
Enlist in the Army/Marines and make a difference instead of just talking about it.

Fargin
06-25-2004, 11:43 PM
I must admitt I enjoyed the read.

Tane Angle
06-25-2004, 11:49 PM
Thank you, usa320. I respect and appreciate actual posts with stats and links and the like, even if I disagree with the argument, more than insults. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

obd
06-26-2004, 12:28 AM
Its interesting how the speaker tries to protray a high level of cooperation among Iraqi's in the resistance (as much as 75%) yet at the same time, these "Bathists" who are, according to the speaker at least, working for the good of Iraq, are also launching assasination campaigns agaisnt Iraqi intelectuals.......Teachers, scientists, rich buisness people, etc are all being tageted by these thugs......

It is also interesting that a huge number of these men who suppossedly have the cooperation of 75% of all Iraq are being ratted out and killed off/arrested all the time.......Sure, some of them know howto hide very well but many are caught.......

If they truly had 75% of the support of the population than we would be in a hell of a bigger mess than we are in now......

usa320
06-26-2004, 12:52 AM
indeed... The numbers supporting the terrorist are dwindling by the day, and its a mere fraction of the population.

Mongrel
06-26-2004, 03:27 AM
I'd really like to know how these "polls" are conducted in any accurate manner in a war zone? Door to door? Ballot box/polling station? Telephone? Mail in coupon? :roll:

Cheers!
M.

OB Kenobi
06-27-2004, 01:07 PM
Things will change very rapidly after 30 JUN. Since so many Iraqis support the interim govt, any attacks will be seen for what they have been all along - nothing more than self-serving. The attacks are not being carried out by forces trying to "liberate" Iraq from the coalition. They are trying to install themselves in power.

If the Iraqis are running the law enforcement infrastructure, we should prepare for reports of mass executions of insurgents. They're not going to be as intimidated by bad press as the coalition was.

Oh, I am eagerly awaiting to continue this discussion after June 30th. But I will tell you why right now. 80% of the police force and the ICDC is working for the Baathists. It's the same people that worked for Saddam before, plus the addition of some Shiites and Kurds. But those Shiites and Kurds don't last very long. Who do you think is getting blown up?

That's why I posted this article originally. It reaffirms most of the things I suspected.

Like I said, we'll continue this discussion after June 30th...

Argyll
06-27-2004, 02:19 PM
Things will change very rapidly after 30 JUN. Since so many Iraqis support the interim govt, any attacks will be seen for what they have been all along - nothing more than self-serving. The attacks are not being carried out by forces trying to "liberate" Iraq from the coalition. They are trying to install themselves in power.

If the Iraqis are running the law enforcement infrastructure, we should prepare for reports of mass executions of insurgents. They're not going to be as intimidated by bad press as the coalition was.

Oh, I am eagerly awaiting to continue this discussion after June 30th. But I will tell you why right now. 80% of the police force and the ICDC is working for the Baathists. It's the same people that worked for Saddam before, plus the addition of some Shiites and Kurds. But those Shiites and Kurds don't last very long. Who do you think is getting blown up?

That's why I posted this article originally. It reaffirms most of the things I suspected.

Like I said, we'll continue this discussion after June 30th...

And you know this from which source?...........personal experience?What you people need to understand is that June 30th is a date,nothing more,it is not a magic switch that instantly makes things better,the attacks on civilains by insurgents will continue,even though they no longer work for the CPA,every day normal hardworking decent people get murdered for trying to make Iraq a better place for them,every day someone gets fished out of the Tigris with a bullet in their head,men and women alike........all they were doing is trying to earn a living.......hardly a crime,but because they worked for Americans they were executed,what will their excuses be after the handover?
Then it will be a case of innocents being targeted and murdered just because they don't follow the ideology of the insurgents/terrorists.....as for that **** Zarqawi....and his band of thugs they're not even Iraqi's so what the fok are they all about?His days are numbered,there's a lot goes on behind the scenes here........stuff the press and some of you will never get to hear about

Gloat all you want Kenobi..........but these Iraqis have more guts to come to work and try to make a living ,than you'll ever have,it must be a bast*rd being perfect?

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 02:29 PM
Methinks it is time to let them kill each other of over their country, and the foriegn troops to go home, and mend their wounds. I don't think anything else could be done right now. It is their country, Saddam is gone, time to leave. Just my two bitz.

Cheers!
M.

My thoughts exactly there is a one snag though, namely oil. I wish North Korea had oil :(

cut
06-27-2004, 02:30 PM
change the avatar, before hood sees it

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 02:37 PM
change the avatar, before hood sees it
Why could you be more specific - I got it from ADL site........

cut
06-27-2004, 02:43 PM
change the avatar, before hood sees it
Why could you be more specific - I got it from ADL site........

that would be because it's used by racists, and likes of the National front

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 02:48 PM
So the KKK used crosses (burning to be exact, however crosses) so are you suggesting we cannot use the Cross anymore?

cut
06-27-2004, 02:51 PM
So the KKK used crosses (burning to be exact, however crosses) so are you suggesting we cannot use the Cross anymore?

if you want to use a celtic cross go ahead other people have, but using the unaltered symbol of racists is not the same

Ratamacue
06-27-2004, 02:51 PM
Wow, you're so clever Fredd.

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 03:03 PM
Wow, you're so clever Fredd.

No yet, but thanks you guys one day maybe.... so many intelligent comments to my av, I am just listening and learn. :lol:

Fintin
06-27-2004, 03:06 PM
Wow, you're so clever Fredd.

No yet, but thanks you guys one day maybe.... so many intelligent comments to my av, I am just listening and learn. :lol:



your ass is so grass....good bye

Argyll
06-27-2004, 03:06 PM
Off topic and it's an offensive avatar......please remove it immediately.

Seraphim
06-27-2004, 03:21 PM
Wow, you're so clever Fredd.

No yet, but thanks you guys one day maybe.... so many intelligent comments to my av, I am just listening and learn. :lol:



your ass is so grass....good bye

UNFORTUNATLY It takes a lot to ban people like this.

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 03:27 PM
Off topic and it's an offensive avatar......please remove it immediately.

No offence but I will do so immediately after you explain to me which point of the Forum’s rules I violated


UNFORTUNATLY It takes a lot to ban people like this.

You got me but be lenient we down here in Nigeria have an obsolete Word Processors :oops:

IDFM203
06-27-2004, 03:27 PM
change the avatar, before hood sees it
Why could you be more specific - I got it from ADL site........Wow classic, you remind of those racists that spout all their racist rhetoric about blacks and then when you point it out, they usually always say, hey I have black friends or I know black people.....yeah whatever slik willy, you have a avatar of a racist and idiotic organization and its on the ADL site merely to point out that these idiotic organizations exist.

secondly you didn’t answer my question to you before in another thread so I repeat.....I am curious to understand your type so "if there were ever to be a white only nation as people from Stromfront (which is the symbol of your avatar) expose as a desire , you wouldn’t mind having white Jews living there, yes or no?"

I am not a moderator nor do I ever ask for anyone to ever be banned, just I do know that the site administrators and moderators frown on overt racists (even though I believe there are many many more here, they simply mask it well with all sorts of "fancy" rhetoric, though you are quite open about it) and people that show overt racism as your avatar does indeed display.

Shalom :D

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 03:36 PM
So I was labeled racist, poor me, frankly when you wrote


all their racist rhetoric about blacks and then when you point it out, they usually always say, hey I have black friends or I know black people...
you were utterly mistaken – I don’t have friend at all, just associates. To the point however


"if there were ever to be a white only nation as people from Stromfront (which is the symbol of your avatar) expose as a desire , you wouldn’t mind having white Jews living there, yes or no?"

I strongly recommend ask them. I nothing to do with the Stormfront. It’s the Celtic cross and “white proud, world wide” means I AM PROUD OF BEING WHITE. So am I a criminal?


If you wonder of my personal opinion ask me directely not the people from the Stutmfront whom I donno

Cheers!

IDFM203
06-27-2004, 03:45 PM
you were utterly mistaken – I don’t have friend at all, just associates. To the point howeverhehe ;) yes at least you do have a sense of humor, though my point stands as pertaining to your supposed getting it from the ADL as if that’s ok then :roll:

It was a lame and weak response and I am not buying it for a second!!



"if there were ever to be a white only nation as people from Stromfront (which is the symbol of your avatar) expose as a desire , you wouldn’t mind having white Jews living there, yes or no?"

I strongly recommend ask them. I nothing to do with the Stormfront. It’s the Celtic cross and “white proud, world wide” means I AM PROUD OF BEING WHITE. So am I a criminal? I said you’re a criminal? :cantbeli: No I said that avatar is usually used by racists.

Now you say you merely have pride in being white and that is it so again for the third time……………


"if there were ever to be a white only nation as people from Stromfront (which is the symbol of your avatar) expose as a desire , you wouldn’t mind having white Jews living there, yes or no?"

In other words do you believe in a white ONLY nation? That’s first question and then another question that I am curious about, and if so, what of white Jews living there? Acceptable or not?



If you wonder of my personal opinion ask me directely not the people from the Stutmfront wom I donno

Cheers! I did already twice and you still have refused to answer so I ask again for the third time above :roll:

Shalom :D

Fargin
06-27-2004, 03:45 PM
I take pride in who I am, the color of my skin is not a factor.

I comepair the symbol and text with a Swastika.

Argyll
06-27-2004, 03:55 PM
Off topic and it's an offensive avatar......please remove it immediately.

No offence but I will do so immediately after you explain to me which point of the Forum’s rules I violated


UNFORTUNATLY It takes a lot to ban people like this.

You got me but be lenient we down here in Nigeria have an obsolete Word Processors :oops:

The avatar is symbolic to White Supremacy and has no place here,forum rules.
3.75. Don't use avatars are signatures that are obscene or sexist.
4. Don't use racial slurs.
Your avatar is right in the middle of this........don't try to win a coconut about this......just remove it please,you've already been told by others and also by me........don't get into a pissing contest with the moderators...........you'll lose

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 04:08 PM
Dear Mr IDFM203!
What seems to be the problem here?

Let’s crack it down….


I said you’re a criminal? No I said that avatar is usually used by racists.”

So prosecute them, I am no racist and according to all modern criminal law systems I am innocent until something different is proven BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBTS (unless I am charged with being Al Quida terrorist….-off-topic sorry). I don’t care who used that marks I am using it without shame, remorse or hesitations. I have my rights if you wanna prosecute me proof your point!


Now you say you merely have pride in being white and that is it so again for the third time……………
Ok so, my point is taken, end of story.


In other words do you believe in a white ONLY nation?”
Nope any nation has the right to exist and built own culture. It beyond question!
Nope any nation has the right to exist and built own culture. It beyond question!


I did already twice and you still have refused to answer so I ask again for the third time above
Forgive my poor white brain but I am slightly confused here what was your question exactly?

Regards!
PS Thanks for your 'Shalom' I welcome it with a great warmth since 5.400 my countrymen has its own trees in Yad Yashen Institute (see here: http://savingjews.info/index.htm)

EDIT:

4. Don't use racial slurs.
Your avatar is right in the middle of this........don't try to win a coconut about this......just remove it please,you've already been told by others and also by me........don't get into a pissing contest with the moderators...........you'll lose

Sorry I am not going to fight with anyone ESPECIALLY the mods. I am not a racisct nor violeting forum's rules. Never I refer to other user with offensive language. I strongly professed my concern about human rights violation!

Your avatar is right in the middle of this
So my humble person is going to stay at this place - the won't be any violation of rules from my side!

Cheers! High Mod!

Freibier
06-27-2004, 04:46 PM
You're joking right?
I mean your new avatar :cantbeli:

Seraphim
06-27-2004, 04:52 PM
I think it just happend to be much easier to ban this guy because now he is obviously intentionally violating forum rules.

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 04:55 PM
You're joking right?
I mean your new avatar :cantbeli:

Mine old one was removed by the mod - sorry 'don't mess with mod' so I HAD to find another one - don't you percive an irony?

Allow me to ad second one was removed either...

That one


Where is first and rest of amendments!!!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!

Seraphim
06-27-2004, 04:56 PM
You're joking right?
I mean your new avatar :cantbeli:

Mine old one was removed by the mod - sorry 'don't mess with mod' so I HAD to find another one - don't you percive an irony?

Allow me to ad second one was removed either...

That one


Where is first and rest of amendments!!!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!


No such thing as free speech on a private website. Rules are made by the administrator...like it or leave it.

Tane Angle
06-27-2004, 04:56 PM
Argyll asked you nicely. Please remove the avatar. Thank you.

Ratamacue
06-27-2004, 04:58 PM
Your presence on this forum doesn't fall under the protection of the Constitution. Hood is the private owner of this forum. That means that what he says goes, which means that he can ban you at will for breaking forum rules. You have three choices: abide by Hood's rules and deal with it, leave, or be banned. You decide. Frankly, I don't think there are many that would miss you if you choice either of the latter two options.

IDFM203
06-27-2004, 05:04 PM
Ok I see now you are even more open about your offensive racist symbols :roll:


Dear Mr IDFM203!
What seems to be the problem here? my problem was that you have used a avatar symbol that is used mostly by racists (and the second one that was removed was even more clear :roll: ) My second problem with you now is that you still refuse to answer direct questions with direct answers :roll:



I said you’re a criminal? No I said that avatar is usually used by racists.”

So prosecute them, I am no racist and according to all modern criminal law systems I am innocent until something different is proven BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBTS (unless I am charged with being Al Quida terrorist….-off-topic sorry). I don’t care who used that marks I am using it without shame, remorse or hesitations. I have my rights if you wanna prosecute me proof your point! who’s talking about prosecute??…. listen I don’t care if you are a racist, believe me we have plenty of them here, just on this forum like I said before, the adminstrator as well as the mods on behalf of most here frown upon overtly racist symbols and overt racist rhetoric, and your avatar whether you like it are not, does fall under that category.

There is no prosecution nor do I care to prosecute you, no on this forum if you are in violation of forum rules (as racism and racist symbols are), you get banned or you’re supposed to, that is all.


Now you say you merely have pride in being white and that is it so again for the third time……………
Ok so, my point is taken, end of story. ah?? Yes I never had a problem with you having pride in you being white, you can have pride in whatever you like, however if that means you believe in whites only well that is a race issue and well that is racism, whether you like it or not.

Your symbols in your avator are used mostly only by people that belive in whites only.



In other words do you believe in a white ONLY nation?”
Nope any nation has the right to exist and built own culture. It beyond question!

The right for people and nations to do things is not what is at debate here, what we are discussing is if such actions constitute racism or not and I ask if there were to be whites that formed a nation where only whites can live, would you view that as a racist nation or not? And do you support that?

Also now for the forth time, do you support Jews living with whites in a white only nation?


Regards!
PS Thanks for your 'Shalom' I welcome it with a great warmth since 5.400 my countrymen has its own trees in Yad Yashen Institute (see here: http://savingjews.info/index.htm) Sorry the link doesn’t work…..can you tell me what nation you come from?


Shalom :D

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 05:09 PM
Sorry the link doesn’t work…..can you tell me what nation you come from?
Shalom



http://savingjews.info/index.htm

IDFM203
06-27-2004, 05:18 PM
Hmm and yet you still cant answer my questions :roll: , I find that funny for someone that claims to have so much pride, yet its quite obvious that you cant muster up enough to answer my simple questions :cantbeli:

And that’s too bad for I was hoping to at least understand what exactly is the view of people that believe in whites only and also how it pertains to white Jews....I guess you aren’t going to answer that to me..........oh well.



Sorry the link doesn’t work…..can you tell me what nation you come from?
Shalom



http://savingjews.info/index.htm
As for your link, so I take it your polish? Well thanks for the link for indeed there were many that helped though at the same time for every one person that helped I believe a lot more did not and a lot in fact helped to kill Jews.....now I am not that researched on the latter and I am sure I am now going to expect a flood of polish members responses ;) but from the little I know on specifics there, that is what I have come to know.


Shalom :D

Mongrel
06-27-2004, 05:26 PM
UGH! :cantbeli:

Freibier
06-27-2004, 05:27 PM
Fredd00,
thanks for taking that avatar off

obd
06-27-2004, 05:30 PM
Well its official... I have just decided that when I vote this coming election, Im going to vote for "other" and put IDF M203.........hmmm.....I wonder if they will take that as some sort of threat like Im gonna launch a 40mm grenade somewhere......On second thought, seeing as we live in the times of terror alert, maybe I will just vote for "the only dude on this forum who properly articulates himself and destroys all comers in debate"...hows that?

IDF M203, the world needs your sanity man......stop wasting your time on this forum and run for office somewhere.............

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 05:35 PM
As for your link, so I take it your polish? Well thanks for the link for indeed there were many that helped though at the same time for every one person that helped I believe a lot more did not and a lot in fact helped to kill Jews.....now I am not that researched on the latter and I am sure I am now going to expect a flood of polish members responses but from the little I know on specifics there, that is what I have come to know.

Any sources? Check out the Yad Yashen Institute at first place.

Nope, no need to thanks for removing the av - I was made by brute force :roll:

Seraphim
06-27-2004, 05:44 PM
Nope, no need to thanks for removing the av - I was made by brute force :roll:

Your honestly asking why your avatar was removed by the mods?

American Patriot
06-27-2004, 05:51 PM
All your previous avatars sucked, however, your Robert E. Lee avatar is quite good since Robert E. Lee was a great man.

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 05:55 PM
So sincerely i hope the mods allow me to keep this one, do they?

IDFM203
06-27-2004, 06:10 PM
Well its official... I have just decided that when I vote this coming election, Im going to vote for "other" and put IDF M203.........hmmm.....I wonder if they will take that as some sort of threat like Im gonna launch a 40mm grenade somewhere......On second thought, seeing as we live in the times of terror alert, maybe I will just vote for "the only dude on this forum who properly articulates himself and destroys all comers in debate"...hows that?

IDF M203, the world needs your sanity man......stop wasting your time on this forum and run for office somewhere............. :D haha wow thanks for your support :D ....I always said you are one strange character and well now you made if official ;)

Listen you right, I am indeed interested in politics (duh! ;) ) but that’s for a later date, for right now, I am simply a individual that enjoys coming here as a hobby to merely distract from the everyday real things that I have going on in real life, that is all.

But yes I do appreciate your kind words there :D




As for your link, so I take it your polish? Well thanks for the link for indeed there were many that helped though at the same time for every one person that helped I believe a lot more did not and a lot in fact helped to kill Jews.....now I am not that researched on the latter and I am sure I am now going to expect a flood of polish members responses but from the little I know on specifics there, that is what I have come to know.

Any sources? Check out the Yad Yashen Institute at first place.

Nope, no need to thanks for removing the av - I was made by brute force :roll: firstly I never thanked you for removing your avatar for indeed I realized you had nothing to do with the removal of your avatar ;) ……..oh and “brute force”? :roll: yeah I bet that must have hurt :roll: rofl rofl

As for sources, sources to what? If its my last comments, I said I am not that researched (though if there are any other Israeli/Jews here that are, well your welcome to either confirm or dispute what I said) and indeed I admit I did not prove my case and as such you can say I am wrong. What I said before there is what I gathered from reading books in the past, if you say I am wrong then show me how and then fine I guess I will take a look at it, if you cant show me anything, well we will just have to leave it at we agree to disagree for I am not in the mood to do much reasurch now.

Oh and what about my previous questions? any answeres????


Shalom :D

Fredd00
06-27-2004, 06:20 PM
What I said before there is what I gathered from reading books in the past, if you say I am wrong then show me how and then fine I guess I will take a look at it, if you cant show me anything, well we will just have to leave it at we agree to disagree for I am not in the mood to do much reasurch now.


Any titles and authors?


firstly I never thanked you for removing your avatar for indeed I realized you had nothing to do with the removal of your avatar

I was refering to Freibier who wrote


Fredd00,
thanks for taking that avatar off

BTW: I hope even the dummest moron can realise connection between the last two which were removed by the censor and the present one?

Seraphim
06-27-2004, 06:24 PM
BTW: I hope even the dummest moron can realise connection between the last two which were removed by the censor and the present one?


Your person who put those avatars on...so that makes you?

IDFM203
06-27-2004, 06:40 PM
I repeat “Oh and what about my previous questions (about Jews and whites only)? Any answers????




firstly I never thanked you for removing your avatar for indeed I realized you had nothing to do with the removal of your avatar

I was refering to Freibier who wrote


Fredd00,
thanks for taking that avatar off

ok but next time say who you are referring to for you simply had that line in your response under my quote.

Shalom :D

Argyll
06-27-2004, 10:26 PM
3 pages of crap that has nothing to do with the original topic......thread locked for deviating from the original topic.