View Full Version : A question or two about the origins of the PPS subgun...
I have read that Sudayev used earlier prototypes designed by Lieutenant I.K. Bezruchko-Vysotsky as a important influence on his work. In fact, Lt. Bezruchko-Vysotsky even received the Order of the Red Banner for that. Does anyone know anything more about the matter, like how similar are the two weapons, what differences there may have been, any pics of Bezruchko-Vysotsky's design or designs?
Considering the period it was designed I would expect the greatest influences were German as cooperation between Germany and the Soviet Union was occuring in the early 1930s and the PPSH weapons look very similar to contemporary German weapons.
Considering the period it was designed I would expect the greatest influences were German as cooperation between Germany and the Soviet Union was occuring in the early 1930s and the PPSH weapons look very similar to contemporary German weapons.
I was referring to the PPS subguns, not the PPSh.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPS-43
world.guns.ru/smg/smg03-e.htm
Also, by the way, I believe that the PPSh's aspects and components were derived from the earlier PPD series ( which were derived or influenced by the MP 18/28) and the Suomi.
oops my mistake.
Wasn't the PPS simply designed specifically for small workshop production out of materials to hand. I would expect the main influences would be what materials were available and what tools were available and the skill level of the workers.
oops my mistake.
Wasn't the PPS simply designed specifically for small workshop production out of materials to hand. I would expect the main influences would be what materials were available and what tools were available and the skill level of the workers.
I was referring to the design. Gun designers have been borrowing and deriving from other designs since the getgo. For example, the AK-47 had derived much from American weapons.
Soviet Small Arms and Ammunition by D N Bolotin has a photo of Bezruchko-Vystsky model 1 and model 2 prototypes on page 61.
According to Bolotin:
The PPS incorporated some features pioneered by I.K. Bezruchko-Vystsky. The guns of this little known constructor, though they never left the prototype stage, attest his outstanding abilities.
In 1942, Bezruchko-Vystsky designed two differing submachineguns operated by blowback principles. One pattern had a cylindrical bolt and a combination main/return spring supported by a rod inserted in a axial hole in the bolt. Empty cases were expelled by an ejector attached to the trigger casing. The bolt handle lay on the left side of the receiver; cartridges fed from a box magazine containing 35 rounds, inserted into the housing from below; and the trigger was set for nothing but automatic fire. A safety catch could be applied after the bolt handle had been turned into a special slot in the rear of the receiver.
The barrel jacket was short and conical, whilst the metal butt was collapsible. A pivoting back sight was adjusted for 100 and 200 metres. The design of the moving parts, together with the ejection system, was subsequently employed in the PPS-42.
An Alternative design offered by Bezruchko-Vystsky had a modified bolt; the slot cut in the bolt-body for the return spring and return spring guid rod was moved downward to the left. The guide rod was extended so that it's tip could act as an ejector, the bolt handle was moved to the right side of the receiver and the safety catch was altered to lock the bolt open or closed as required. Ventilation slots in the barrel jacket were reduced to six on each side and an effective muzzle brake/compensator was attached. Some of these features subsequently appeared in the PPS-43.
Connaught Ranger
03-31-2009, 08:05 AM
In 1942, Bezruchko-Vystsky designed two differing submachineguns operated by blowback principles. One pattern had a cylindrical bolt and a combination main/return spring supported by a rod inserted in a axial hole in the bolt. Empty cases were expelled by an ejector attached to the trigger casing. The bolt handle lay on the left side of the receiver; cartridges fed from a box magazine containing 35 rounds, inserted into the housing from below; and the trigger was set for nothing but automatic fire. A safety catch could be applied after the bolt handle had been turned into a special slot in the rear of the receiver.
The barrel jacket was short and conical, whilst the metal butt was collapsible. A pivoting back sight was adjusted for 100 and 200 metres. The design of the moving parts, together with the ejection system, was subsequently employed in the PPS-42.
To my mind, and very few differences, that description reminds me of the Swedish Carl Gustaff 9mm which was a blow back bolt system that I carried in the Irish Army and in Lebanon with the U.N.:grin:
Connaught Ranger.:)
To my mind, and very few differences, that description reminds me of the Swedish Carl Gustaff 9mm which was a blow back bolt system that I carried in the Irish Army and in Lebanon with the U.N.
The design is not much different from any modern semi auto .22 rifle. The idea of unlocked blowback was not new in WWII and you will probably find similarities from 1918 right through to the post WWII Sterling SMG and even later weapons. The fact that they look similar however does no suggest copying. Soviet designers worked with German designers in secret during the period before WWII but neither knew all of eaches real secrets. T-34s and KV-1s were a surprise to the Germans just as the Tigers were to the Soviets. The Soviets had a good history of weapons development including Degtarev and Tokarev as well as Federov etc. The AK might have had parts that looked like they came from American rifles but there were dozens of prototypes that were tested so the idea that it was a copy of anything can be put to rest.
Soviet Small Arms and Ammunition by D N Bolotin has a photo of Bezruchko-Vystsky model 1 and model 2 prototypes on page 61.
According to Bolotin:
Could you maybe post the pic?
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