Boy stabbed in anti-Semitic attack in Belgium

[UkrainianAmerican]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/443539.html

BRUSSELS - Jewish organizations and the mayor of the Belgian port city of Antwerp held an emergency meeting on Friday after four students from a Jewish school in an Antwerp suburb were attacked.





A spokesman for the Forum of Jewish Organizations said one 16-year old boy was stabbed in the back during an attack late on Thursday by about 15 youngsters of Arab origin which the Forum believed was motivated by anti-Semitism.

"He was stabbed in the back, one of his lungs was punctured and he lost a lot of blood," the spokesman said, adding that the boy's life was no longer in danger.

According to Israel Radio the victim was identified as Noah Schmal, a Yeshiva student. The boy was evacuated unconscious to a hospital in Antwerp, but doctors say he is currently in stable condition.

The Forum said the school in the Antwerp suburb of Wilrijk had been targeted before, but there had never been violence.

After the meeting, Antwerp's mayor and police chief pledged to boost patrols in the area. No arrests had been made so far, the spokesman said.

Antwerp is home to an Orthodox Jewish community of about 20,000.

The Jewish community in Belgium has complained of a rise in anti-Semitism and of virulent anti-Israeli propaganda since the start of the Palestinian revolt against Israeli occupation in September 2000.

F*cking pussies. :fork:

[usa320]

What does Europe have against the Jews...really...

[Bayonet]

What does Europe have against the Jews...really...



It's really???

[Ratamacue]

What does Europe have against the Jews...really...
Nothing.

[Fargin]

What does Europe have against the Jews...really...
Nothing.

I agree, I as most europeans have diddly squat against jews.

[Sayeret]

diddly squat

Whats your problem?

[SeanAshi]

What does Europe have against the Jews...The Jew part

[Fargin]

diddly squat

Whats your problem?

?

[Sayeret]

Why are you saying diddly squat regarding the boy being stabbed?

[RavenW]

Ahi, don't even speak with them!

You see their level. Don't lower yours.

Shalom!

[Fargin]

Sayeret check your private messages

[usa320]

I shouldnt have made such a broad comment, but it seems that statistically anti-sematics are far more common in Europe than say Americas or Asia...

[Fargin]

Don't call me an anti-semite.

[usa320]

i didnt.

[SeanAshi]

I shouldnt have made such a broad comment, but it seems that statistically anti-sematics are far more common in Europe than say Americas or Asia...Europe is where 6 million Jews were murdered for no reason what so ever.

[RavenW]

I shouldnt have made such a broad comment, but it seems that statistically anti-sematics are far more common in Europe than say Americas or Asia...

Well, if Middle East is Asia... which technically it is.

Hm... so many choices so little time... where should a Jew go? :)


There is a joke in Russia:

A warrior stands on the cross road. There is a stone. He reads some writing on it.
"If you go to the right road - you gonna get beat up real bad",

"If you go to the left road - you gonna get beat up real bad",

"If you go to the central road - you gonna get beat up real bad"..

so the guys stands and thinks, stands and thinks - where should he go?

Then suddenly, he hears a voice: "C'mon, dude! Think faster or you gonna be beaten up just right here!"

Sorry, for rough translation. In Russian it's kind of funny.

[RavenW]

Don't call me an anti-semite.

noone accuse anyone of anti-semitism until they say something anti-semitic like for example "denial of rights of Jews to live in their Home - Hebron, West Bank".

[SeanAshi]

noone accuse anyone of anti-semitism until they say something anti-semitic like for example "denial of rights of Jews to live in their Home - Hebron, West Bank".and Gaza

[Fargin]

i didnt.

I thought you did, my bad then.



Don't call me an anti-semite.

noone accuse anyone of anti-semitism until they say something anti-semitic like for example "denial of rights of Jews to live in their Home - Hebron, West Bank".

I disagree.

and I'm not a racist because I disagree with your political views.

[RavenW]

Don't call me an anti-semite.

noone accuse anyone of anti-semitism until they say something anti-semitic like for example "denial of rights of Jews to live in their Home - Hebron, West Bank".

I disagree.

and I'm not a racist because I disagree with your political views.

It's not "political". It's existential. Simple as it can be.

And it is sad indeed that some Europeans don't get it.

[Fargin]

Can I disagree with your views without being a racist?

[UoUo]

RavenW
can you raed hebrew?

[UoUo]

Can I disagree with your views without being a racist?

It depends....

I mean if you are saying that the Israel don't have the right to exist

This is a clear anti semtic comment. (i didn't say you say so).

[Fargin]

Israel has a right to exist.

[gilgoul]

Israel has a right to exist.
So everything is ok, p-)
As for europe, it`s not that it is more antisemite, than, let say saudi arabia, but there you heve both antisemites and jews, while in Saudi Arabia, no jews are even allowed to live or travel there.
You see, as a jew who grew up n france, even served in the french army, and honours and love a lot of french things, I can tell you that antisemitism is rife, not necesseraly conscious even. It is the kind of basic prejudice that is so hard to combat, because people don`t even think they are prejudiced. and when terrible thing happen, like the stabbing of a youngster, the burnng of aa synagogue, the collective attack on a cultural center, people don`t feel concerned, or find excusese like " the jews looked for it", " Israel provoked it" just if antisemitism where a creation of the jews, and in anyway always an exageration. This often an insult worse than the facts denunciated, and the price of blood payed by the jews of europe to defend their respective countries is for the third time in modern history denied and prooved worthless.
The fact that all those provocation went unavenged til now hasn`t been noted, it should have been.

[Danzer]

The article said of Arab origin.

This more a result of the problem with the arabs in europe nowadays.
I know this sounds like a very right wing way of thinking but unfortunatly it's a problem not only occuring in Belgium but also in Holland and some other european countries

[Midav]

15 on 1? Plus they had to use a knife?

Wow! Such tough mother f*ckers.... :roll:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

People in glass houses should not throw stones. ;)


Anti-Semitism on the Rise in America -- ADL Survey on Anti-Semitic Attitudes Reveals 17 Percent of Americans Hold "Hardcore" Beliefs



New York, NY, June 11, 2002 … A nationwide survey released today by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) shows an increase in the number of Americans with anti-Semitic attitudes, reversing a ten-year decline and raising concerns that "an undercurrent of Jewish hatred persists in America."

The national poll of 1,000 American adults conducted April 26 through May 6, 2002 found that 17% of Americans - or about 35 million adults - hold views about Jews that are "unquestionably anti-Semitic." Previous surveys commissioned by ADL over the last decade had indicated that anti-Semitism was in decline. A survey of attitudes four years ago found that the number of Americans with hardcore anti-Semitic beliefs had dropped from20% in 1992, to 12% in 1998.

The findings in brief … Strongly anti-Semitic:
17% of Americans
35% of Hispanics
44% of foreign-born Hispanics
20% of Hispanic Americans born in U.S.
35% of African-Americans
3% of U.S. college and university students

http://adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4109_12.asp

[Kriz]

Dudes I happen to live 25 kilometers away from where it happened, we all know these kinds of attacks are never the work of "real" europeans. It's the work of muslim immigrants from north-africa and middle east.

These people just try and move the battleground from Israël to our city because Antwerp happens to have a quite large jewish population.

Let's hope the police find the ones who did it and send them back to their home country, we don't need this kind of **** people.

Besides they not only harass jews, me and several friends of mine have been harassed by the likes of them too. It's because they refuse to get a decent job and make something out of their lives. They prefer to hang round on the streets and harass normal hard working people.

It's really sad and yet at the same time makes me mad as hell :bash:

[Midav]

Minorities hating jews....?

[Midav]

Swastikas daubed over cemetery in Alsace

STRASBOURG, June 7 (2004) (AFP) - Vandals daubed black swastikas and SS symbols on 14 graves at a Christian cemetery in eastern France, the second such incident at the graveyard in a month, police said Monday.

The pro-Nazi markings were discovered early Monday at the cemetery in the Alsatian village of Niederhaslach. Similar graffiti was found on some 20 graves at the cemetery in early May.

The incident in May came on the heels of the desecration of 127 graves at a Jewish cemetery in the same region, not far from the border with Germany.

Vandals scrawled swastikas and sayings glorifying Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler on the Jewish graves in Herrlisheim. On a stone inscribed with a prayer in Hebrew, vandals wrote "Juden raus", which means "Jews out" in German.

The vandalism at the Jewish cemetery provoked indignation across France and highlighted the country's continuing struggle to stamp out anti-Semitic acts.

Sixty-seven anti-Semitic incidents were reported in France during the first three months of 2004, compared with 42 in the previous quarter, according to figures released by the interior ministry.

Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin suggested Monday that French laws might need to be changed in order to address the rise in anti-Semitism.

"We must constantly question the means at our disposal," De Villepin told Europe 1 radio. "We need appropriate responses. When these responses are not satisfactory ... the law must simply be adapted, adding new punishments."

Last week a Jewish teenager was stabbed in the neck and seriously wounded outside his school in a Paris suburb, an apparent hate crime that sparked outrage.

Here (http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=58&story_id=8266)


Jewish Cemetery Vandalized in Germany

June 25 (2004)

DUESSELDORF, Germany -- Vandals sprayed swastikas and Nazi SS symbols on more than 40 graves at a Jewish cemetery in western Germany, police said Friday.

The damage was discovered Thursday by a member of the Jewish community, police said. The symbols were also sprayed in silver paint on a pillar of a nearby bridge and a truck trailer.

Police said they had no immediate indication of who was responsible.

Here (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-germany-jewish-cemetery,0,2949604.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines)

It's a shame.

[Mongrel]

Why can't people leave there old countries political/ethnic crap/battle bones to pick, at the front gate when the become new citizens in a new country? :bash:

Same crap happens in Canada.

I hope they deport those bastards back to where ever.

M.

[StarvingStudent47]

Hm... so many choices so little time... where should a Jew go? :)


USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!

This country kicks ass.

[StarvingStudent47]

Minorities hating jews....?

This was recently mentioned in off-topic. I blame Louis Farrakhan (of the Nation of Islam) and Al Sharpton and the like, who blame Jews for everything from the slave trade (say what?) to modern poverty in African-American populations.

That said, there really isn't so much anti-Semitism in the USA. The worst most Jews get is some hippie screaming "occupier" at them once every great long while. The fantastic thing about hippies hating you is that they're pacifists, and if they do try to start a fight it's easy to kick their ass. I'd much rather be dealing with angry hippies than angry jackbooted fascists or angry jihadists.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Minorities hating jews....?

This was recently mentioned in off-topic. I blame Louis Farrakhan (of the Nation of Islam) and Al Sharpton and the like, who blame Jews for everything from the slave trade (say what?) to modern poverty in African-American populations.

That said, there really isn't so much anti-Semitism in the USA. The worst most Jews get is some hippie screaming "occupier" at them once every great long while. The fantastic thing about hippies hating you is that they're pacifists, and if they do try to start a fight it's easy to kick their ass. I'd much rather be dealing with angry hippies than angry jackbooted fascists or angry jihadists.
Haha, completely in agreement here.
Btw, I dont really think that ADL's survey is connected with reality. In the seven years I lived in the States, I never once encountered a hostile reaction to me being of Jewish decent. And it goes without saying that the Bronx, and New York City as a whole, has quite a few of aforementioned Hispanics and other minorities.

[oldsoak]

There should be a notice outside every immigration office everywhere on Earth - "If you want to become a citizen here, you leave your wars behind - or else."

[cut]

Minorities hating jews....?

This was recently mentioned in off-topic. I blame Louis Farrakhan (of the Nation of Islam) and Al Sharpton and the like, who blame Jews for everything from the slave trade (say what?) to modern poverty in African-American populations.

That said, there really isn't so much anti-Semitism in the USA. The worst most Jews get is some hippie screaming "occupier" at them once every great long while. The fantastic thing about hippies hating you is that they're pacifists, and if they do try to start a fight it's easy to kick their ass. I'd much rather be dealing with angry hippies than angry jackbooted fascists or angry jihadists.

lol if I chose to blame anybody remotely like that the anti-semite accusations would start to fly, should I call you racist against blacks for blaming two black "leaders"?

I think you shouldn't blame anyone, like that.

[Moledet]

I'm no longer surprised, after I've heard of a Rabbi that his face hair was ripped off in a train, I can't be surprised.

RavenW, a Jew should only live in Israel, that's the safest country in the world. Some nations ofcourse were never hit by terror but when they will get hit (it's just a matter of time) they won't know how to stop the attacks while Israel already stop most of them.

[cut]

I'm no longer surprised, after I've heard of a Rabbi that his face hair was ripped off in a train, I can't be surprised.

RavenW, a Jew should only live in Israel, that's the safest country in the world. Some nations ofcourse were never hit by terror but when they will get hit (it's just a matter of time) they won't know how to stop the attacks while Israel already stop most of them.

you don't think the US or the UK is?

[Mongrel]

Yah but how fun is it to live under siege all the time? :|
M.

[Moledet]

I'm no longer surprised, after I've heard of a Rabbi that his face hair was ripped off in a train, I can't be surprised.

RavenW, a Jew should only live in Israel, that's the safest country in the world. Some nations ofcourse were never hit by terror but when they will get hit (it's just a matter of time) they won't know how to stop the attacks while Israel already stop most of them.

you don't think the US or the UK is?
As I said, it's just a matter of time. I don't think that you need to be an expert to understand that.
Israel is the safest place.
And we don't live under siege at all, we live normal lives just like you.

[Tengu]

I'm sorry this happend in my country and i will tell you now, we are just as mad as you are. We can't believe this has happend here. :(

We have a very respectable jewish community in belgium, mostly in antwerp. They are good people.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

RavenW, a Jew should only live in Israel, that's the safest country in the world.
I think many Jews would disagree with you after all there are 6,155,000 in the US and around 5,000,000 in Israel.

[Tengu]

Minorities hating jews....?YES, a very small minority in a minority :P

[Moledet]

RavenW, a Jew should only live in Israel, that's the safest country in the world.
I think many Jews would disagree with you after all there are 6,155,000 in the US and around 5,000,000 in Israel.
I don't think that they will disagree with me, but it's definetly better for them to live there, because most of them are not young and it will be a problem for them to find a job here. Still I don't think that they will disagree with me and will tell me that this country is not safer for Jews than most of the countries.

[Herrmannek]

I have one question nort related directly to article... Why everybody who kill Jew is automaticlay labeled antisemite....I'm sure some of them were ordinary criminals?


BTW how we should call guys who kills/hate Europeans of caucasian descent?

[Moledet]

I have one question nort related directly to article... Why everybody who kill Jew is automaticlay labeled antisemite....I'm sure some of them were ordinary criminals?


BTW how we should call guys who kills/hate Europeans of caucasian descent?
Not anyone who attacks Jews ia labeled an Anti semite, only people that are motivated from racist ideology are labeled anti semites.


A spokesman for the Forum of Jewish Organizations said one 16-year old boy was stabbed in the back during an attack late on Thursday by about 15 youngsters of Arab origin which the Forum believed was motivated by anti-Semitism.

It's not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

[1Cie GevGn]

it is not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

I've been to Antwerp quite a few times, and worse places in Belgium. Not to offend anyone but just looking at a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" is enough to provoke an assault. It's just that in this case the victim was a Jew, while attacks like these happen to "ordinary" people too.

And just to let you people that were never assaulted by a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" feel how it is, I'll do a little re-enactement of a encounter with them.

I was walking along the streets with a friend of mine, he had to buy some sigs for his mother (neither of us smoke). We came out of the store, some "Arab youngsters" crossed the street and encircled us:

"do you have a sigarette for me? do you have one for my friend? do you have a cellphone? Can I see it, I collect them? Can I use it to call my family?"

Luckily for us a cop car pulled up, and then they were:

"we were just talking to some friends of us, no problem, no problem"

There's a Turkish family living in our street, they are possibly the best neighbours we ever had. Just shows that there are a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone.

And now, off to the mall to get new swimming shorts...

NNNNOOOOOOOoooooooooooo............................ ...

[UkrainianAmerican]

it is not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

I've been to Antwerp quite a few times, and worse places in Belgium. Not to offend anyone but just looking at a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" is enough to provoke an assault. It's just that in this case the victim was a Jew, while attacks like these happen to "ordinary" people too.

And just to let you people that were never assaulted by a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" feel how it is, I'll do a little re-enactement of a encounter with them.

I was walking along the streets with a friend of mine, he had to buy some sigs for his mother (neither of us smoke). We came out of the store, some "Arab youngsters" crossed the street and encircled us:

"do you have a sigarette for me? do you have one for my friend? do you have a cellphone? Can I see it, I collect them? Can I use it to call my family?"

Luckily for us a cop car pulled up, and then they were:

"we were just talking to some friends of us, no problem, no problem"

There's a Turkish family living in our street, they are possibly the best neighbours we ever had. Just shows that there are a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone.

And now, off to the mall to get new swimming shorts...

NNNNOOOOOOOoooooooooooo............................ ...
Hehe, I had that situation in the Bronx once (substitute Arabs for Hispanics :lol: ) Thanksfully there were five of us (and 11-12 of them) and once they saw taht they would have to fight each and every single one of us to get anywhere, they decided to disperse (they asked me for a stog, I said I dont have any for them, unless they are willing to pay for them, and they strated to imposingly beg for them, so I told them to **** off, and my friend said if they dont get the fcuk out of our faces there will be a problem, :lol: , so they followed his advice)

[1Cie GevGn]

Yeah, unfortunately my friend was 11 and nearsighted :lol: so I would have opted to run like hell ;)

[UkrainianAmerican]

Yeah, unfortunately my friend was 11 and nearsighted :lol: so I would have opted to run like hell ;)
Yeah, if there woulda been only two of us (unarmed,obviously) I would probably pussy out and just give em the stogs and call it a day :lol:

[iflu]

What does Europe have against the Jews...really...

oh, u should read sth on jews' thousands years of history. till the very very little part of that what i learned, it is far too difficult to explain. and i understand why jews need their own country.

[Kriz]

it is not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

I've been to Antwerp quite a few times, and worse places in Belgium. Not to offend anyone but just looking at a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" is enough to provoke an assault. It's just that in this case the victim was a Jew, while attacks like these happen to "ordinary" people too.

And just to let you people that were never assaulted by a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" feel how it is, I'll do a little re-enactement of a encounter with them.

I was walking along the streets with a friend of mine, he had to buy some sigs for his mother (neither of us smoke). We came out of the store, some "Arab youngsters" crossed the street and encircled us:

"do you have a sigarette for me? do you have one for my friend? do you have a cellphone? Can I see it, I collect them? Can I use it to call my family?"

Luckily for us a cop car pulled up, and then they were:

"we were just talking to some friends of us, no problem, no problem"

There's a Turkish family living in our street, they are possibly the best neighbours we ever had. Just shows that there are a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone.

And now, off to the mall to get new swimming shorts...

NNNNOOOOOOOoooooooooooo............................ ...

Now the situation way too well, and then we're not even talking about parties. Why the hell do they always have to start fights when you're just having fun man, had that too ??

It's such a b*tch to get your evening ruined by that and yourself or good friends in the hospital, then people wonder why you vote right wing ...

[UkrainianAmerican]

it is not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

I've been to Antwerp quite a few times, and worse places in Belgium. Not to offend anyone but just looking at a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" is enough to provoke an assault. It's just that in this case the victim was a Jew, while attacks like these happen to "ordinary" people too.

And just to let you people that were never assaulted by a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" feel how it is, I'll do a little re-enactement of a encounter with them.

I was walking along the streets with a friend of mine, he had to buy some sigs for his mother (neither of us smoke). We came out of the store, some "Arab youngsters" crossed the street and encircled us:

"do you have a sigarette for me? do you have one for my friend? do you have a cellphone? Can I see it, I collect them? Can I use it to call my family?"

Luckily for us a cop car pulled up, and then they were:

"we were just talking to some friends of us, no problem, no problem"

There's a Turkish family living in our street, they are possibly the best neighbours we ever had. Just shows that there are a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone.

And now, off to the mall to get new swimming shorts...

NNNNOOOOOOOoooooooooooo............................ ...

Now the situation way too well, and then we're not even talking about parties. Why the hell do they always have to start fights when you're just having fun man, had that too ??

It's such a b*tch to get your evening ruined by that and yourself or good friends in the hospital, then people wonder why you vote right wing ...
In my experience, if you are able to convince them that you are not intimidated, and are willing to fight, they usually try to end their ****.

[Kriz]

it is not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

I've been to Antwerp quite a few times, and worse places in Belgium. Not to offend anyone but just looking at a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" is enough to provoke an assault. It's just that in this case the victim was a Jew, while attacks like these happen to "ordinary" people too.

And just to let you people that were never assaulted by a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" feel how it is, I'll do a little re-enactement of a encounter with them.

I was walking along the streets with a friend of mine, he had to buy some sigs for his mother (neither of us smoke). We came out of the store, some "Arab youngsters" crossed the street and encircled us:

"do you have a sigarette for me? do you have one for my friend? do you have a cellphone? Can I see it, I collect them? Can I use it to call my family?"

Luckily for us a cop car pulled up, and then they were:

"we were just talking to some friends of us, no problem, no problem"

There's a Turkish family living in our street, they are possibly the best neighbours we ever had. Just shows that there are a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone.

And now, off to the mall to get new swimming shorts...

NNNNOOOOOOOoooooooooooo............................ ...

Now the situation way too well, and then we're not even talking about parties. Why the hell do they always have to start fights when you're just having fun man, had that too ??

It's such a b*tch to get your evening ruined by that and yourself or good friends in the hospital, then people wonder why you vote right wing ...
In my experience, if you are able to convince them that you are not intimidated, and are willing to fight, they usually try to end their ****.

Not when you're outnumbered 3 to 10/15 :|

[UkrainianAmerican]

it is not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

I've been to Antwerp quite a few times, and worse places in Belgium. Not to offend anyone but just looking at a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" is enough to provoke an assault. It's just that in this case the victim was a Jew, while attacks like these happen to "ordinary" people too.

And just to let you people that were never assaulted by a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" feel how it is, I'll do a little re-enactement of a encounter with them.

I was walking along the streets with a friend of mine, he had to buy some sigs for his mother (neither of us smoke). We came out of the store, some "Arab youngsters" crossed the street and encircled us:

"do you have a sigarette for me? do you have one for my friend? do you have a cellphone? Can I see it, I collect them? Can I use it to call my family?"

Luckily for us a cop car pulled up, and then they were:

"we were just talking to some friends of us, no problem, no problem"

There's a Turkish family living in our street, they are possibly the best neighbours we ever had. Just shows that there are a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone.

And now, off to the mall to get new swimming shorts...

NNNNOOOOOOOoooooooooooo............................ ...

Now the situation way too well, and then we're not even talking about parties. Why the hell do they always have to start fights when you're just having fun man, had that too ??

It's such a b*tch to get your evening ruined by that and yourself or good friends in the hospital, then people wonder why you vote right wing ...
In my experience, if you are able to convince them that you are not intimidated, and are willing to fight, they usually try to end their ****.

Not when you're outnumbered 3 to 10/15 :|
Yeah, in that case you really dont have any options but to cool it down, unless you are packing a LOT of heat (and are willing to do jail time :lol: )

[Kriz]

I never carry weapons, first off because it's illegal second because I think it only makes things worse :)

[UkrainianAmerican]

Heh, me neither, but my friend carried a butterfly knife every now and then.

[Freibier]

I hope the boy gets well soon.
15:1 wtf?? :bash:

[UkrainianAmerican]

I hope the boy gets well soon.
15:1 wtf?? :bash:
Yeah, seriously. If they wanna *fcuk up* a Yeshiva student, I am sure they would be able to do it without the knife (with 15 to 1 odds), but no, they had to stab the dude in the back, to prove that they are a bunch of pussies.

[Freibier]

I hope the boy gets well soon.
15:1 wtf?? :bash:
Yeah, seriously. If they wanna *fcuk up* a Yeshiva student, I am sure they would be able to do it without the knife (with 15 to 1 odds), but no, they had to stab the dude in the back, to prove that they are a bunch of pussies.
Agreed, what a bunch of pussies

[StarvingStudent47]

Minorities hating jews....?

This was recently mentioned in off-topic. I blame Louis Farrakhan (of the Nation of Islam) and Al Sharpton and the like, who blame Jews for everything from the slave trade (say what?) to modern poverty in African-American populations.

lol if I chose to blame anybody remotely like that the anti-semite accusations would start to fly, should I call you racist against blacks for blaming two black "leaders"?

I think you shouldn't blame anyone, like that.
Wow. Do you KNOW anything about Louis Farrakhan?

Listen, if I could blame Nathan Bedford Forrest for the creation of the KKK (I'm blaming a white man--I must hate white people!) then I can blame Farrakhan for the insertion of blatanly anti-Semitic rhetoric into the Nation of Islam.

Me? Anti-Black? Puhleeze. My family's been donating to the NAACP since the early 1960s. We supported SCLC. We've always stood for African-American rights and equality. But there are a few bad seeds amongst many good leaders in the African-American community. Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton are two of them.

Saying that you hate blacks because you hate Louis Farrakhan is like saying that you hate whites because you hate David Duke. It's just plain asinine.

[Moledet]

it is not logical that 15 arabs will have a problem with the same guy.

I've been to Antwerp quite a few times, and worse places in Belgium. Not to offend anyone but just looking at a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" is enough to provoke an assault. It's just that in this case the victim was a Jew, while attacks like these happen to "ordinary" people too.

And just to let you people that were never assaulted by a "group of 15 Arab youngsters" feel how it is, I'll do a little re-enactement of a encounter with them.

I was walking along the streets with a friend of mine, he had to buy some sigs for his mother (neither of us smoke). We came out of the store, some "Arab youngsters" crossed the street and encircled us:

"do you have a sigarette for me? do you have one for my friend? do you have a cellphone? Can I see it, I collect them? Can I use it to call my family?"

Luckily for us a cop car pulled up, and then they were:

"we were just talking to some friends of us, no problem, no problem"

There's a Turkish family living in our street, they are possibly the best neighbours we ever had. Just shows that there are a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone.

And now, off to the mall to get new swimming shorts...

NNNNOOOOOOOoooooooooooo............................ ...
Why did they come to you? Because they thought that they might get some things out of you aka to rob you.
Why did they come to the yeshiva student? Because he wore "Jewish" clothes, they took nothing from him, they only stabbed him and ran away, that's not a robbery but an attempt to murder a Jew, that's also known as an antisemitic attack.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

You guys look to much into this sorta ****, it happens all over the world to any race or nationality. Hate breed's hate....that and most Jew's like to label people Anti-semite so much that its lost its meaning. 15:1 isnt exactly fair odd's either, but all 16 of them have to live with the consqeunces of there actions.

Question...would it made it onto the forum lets say if this happened in Texas and it was a black dude that got beat up by 15 white guys? I highly doubt it....

[UkrainianAmerican]

You guys look to much into this sorta ****, it happens all over the world to any race or nationality. Hate breed's hate....that and most Jew's like to label people Anti-semite so much that its lost its meaning. 15:1 isnt exactly fair odd's either, but all 16 of them have to live with the consqeunces of there actions.

Question...would it made it onto the forum lets say if this happened in Texas and it was a black dude that got beat up by 15 white guys? I highly doubt it....
Not only would it make it to the forum, it would be all over the media for a month or two.

[StarvingStudent47]

Question...would it made it onto the forum lets say if this happened in Texas and it was a black dude that got beat up by 15 white guys? I highly doubt it....

I sure as hell HOPE it would. I'd be PISSED about that sort of thing, and I'd be callin' for blood there too.

I don't remember anybody telling blacks "you guys look too much into this sorts ****" when Rodney King was brutalized by a bunch of racist white cops, or when the man in Jasper TX was dragged to death by a bunch of f---ing skinheads or when any of the other heinous, unforgivable anti-black crimes of recent years have happened. This s--- is serious, and people take it seriously.

All we're asking for is the same level of respect.

[StarvingStudent47]

Hate breed's hate....that and most Jew's like to label people Anti-semite so much that its lost its meaning.

Okay, what would you like us to call it when a mob tries to murder someone solely because they're Jewish? Cause that's what happened here. Did you notice they didn't even take his wallet or watch? They just beat him, stabbed him, and left him.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I doubt it would make the site, as its not religous based, military based and it doesnt have any Arabs involved in it. True it would be a shame, and would probably get quite a few peoples blood boiling.


All we're asking for is the same level of respect.

Isnt that ironic? Isnt that what the Iraqi's and Afghans want? Having them constantly reffered to as "ragheads" on this site, some by some of the posters in this thread. This isnt a personal attack at your Starving, but respect is a two way street, you have to show respect to gain it. Its a shame what happened to the single guy. If anything this sounds like more of a "gang voilence" attack, theres tons of these over in Vancouver..next time one happens I'll be sure to post .

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

A spokesman for the Forum of Jewish Organizations said one 16-year old boy was stabbed in the back during an attack late on Thursday by about 15 youngsters of Arab origin which the Forum believed was motivated by anti-Semitism.


Hasnt been proven it was, as they have not yet caught anyone involved. Like I said it sounds like normal "gang" voilence to me.

[Moledet]

I doubt it would make the site, as its not religous based, military based and it doesnt have any Arabs involved in it. True it would be a shame, and would probably get quite a few peoples blood boiling.


All we're asking for is the same level of respect.

Isnt that ironic? Isnt that what the Iraqi's and Afghans want? Having them constantly reffered to as "ragheads" on this site, some by some of the posters in this thread. This isnt a personal attack at your Starving, but respect is a two way street, you have to show respect to gain it. Its a shame what happened to the single guy. If anything this sounds like more of a "gang voilence" attack, theres tons of these over in Vancouver..next time one happens I'll be sure to post .
The story about the american cops didn't just get to Israel but it was also discussed here in the media and was broadcasted several times for several weeks.

But it wasn't a gang attack, he is a yeshiva student, he is not a part of a gang and he wasn't robbed by the attackers.
We didn't label all the arabs as anti semitics, we just said that this attack was motivated by antisemitism, it was not motivated by money, it wasn't motivated by pride, it was motivated by antisemitism.

[Moledet]

A spokesman for the Forum of Jewish Organizations said one 16-year old boy was stabbed in the back during an attack late on Thursday by about 15 youngsters of Arab origin which the Forum believed was motivated by anti-Semitism.


Hasnt been proven it was, as they have not yet caught anyone involved. Like I said it sounds like normal "gang" voilence to me.
Ofcourse, the yeshiva is making drugs and the yeshiva student was the head of the drugs industries of the yeshiva. The arabs are part of another gang that want to gain control over the drug industry of Antwerepen, so they decided to kill the head of the yeshiva drug cooporation.

[StarvingStudent47]

Isnt that ironic? Isnt that what the Iraqi's and Afghans want? Having them constantly reffered to as "ragheads" on this site, some by some of the posters in this thread. This isnt a personal attack at your Starving, but respect is a two way street, you have to show respect to gain it. Its a shame what happened to the single guy. If anything this sounds like more of a "gang voilence" attack, theres tons of these over in Vancouver..next time one happens I'll be sure to post .

Hey asshole. Find a single ****ing post where I have ever used a single racial slur for Arabs. Find a single ****ing one. You're as ****ing racist as the people you seem to oppose. One Jew says something you don't like, so you treat all Jews as if they're the one offending person.

[Macs.]

Isnt that ironic? Isnt that what the Iraqi's and Afghans want? Having them constantly reffered to as "ragheads" on this site, some by some of the posters in this thread. This isnt a personal attack at your Starving, but respect is a two way street, you have to show respect to gain it. Its a shame what happened to the single guy. If anything this sounds like more of a "gang voilence" attack, theres tons of these over in Vancouver..next time one happens I'll be sure to post .

Hey asshole. Find a single f*** post where I have ever used a single racial slur for Arabs. Find a single f*** one. You're as f*** racist as the people you seem to oppose. One Jew says something you don't like, so you treat all Jews as if they're the one offending person.

Calm down.

[S'13]

A spokesman for the Forum of Jewish Organizations said one 16-year old boy was stabbed in the back during an attack late on Thursday by about 15 youngsters of Arab origin which the Forum believed was motivated by anti-Semitism.


Hasnt been proven it was, as they have not yet caught anyone involved. Like I said it sounds like normal "gang" voilence to me.

You say that it hasn't yet been proven that this attack was motivated by anti-Semitism. So I take it that you are trying to tell us that we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Yet you yorself determine that it sounds like it was a case of "gang violence"... And your proof is? :roll: :cantbeli:

[Macs.]

Isnt that ironic? Isnt that what the Iraqi's and Afghans want? Having them constantly reffered to as "ragheads" on this site, some by some of the posters in this thread. This isnt a personal attack at your Starving, but respect is a two way street, you have to show respect to gain it. Its a shame what happened to the single guy. If anything this sounds like more of a "gang voilence" attack, theres tons of these over in Vancouver..next time one happens I'll be sure to post .

Hey asshole. Find a single f*** post where I have ever used a single racial slur for Arabs. Find a single f*** one. You're as f*** racist as the people you seem to oppose. One Jew says something you don't like, so you treat all Jews as if they're the one offending person.

Calm down.

[Macs.]

Isnt that ironic? Isnt that what the Iraqi's and Afghans want? Having them constantly reffered to as "ragheads" on this site, some by some of the posters in this thread. This isnt a personal attack at your Starving, but respect is a two way street, you have to show respect to gain it. Its a shame what happened to the single guy. If anything this sounds like more of a "gang voilence" attack, theres tons of these over in Vancouver..next time one happens I'll be sure to post .

Hey asshole. Find a single f*** post where I have ever used a single racial slur for Arabs. Find a single f*** one. You're as f*** racist as the people you seem to oppose. One Jew says something you don't like, so you treat all Jews as if they're the one offending person.

Calm down.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I never said you starving made any racial comments, there has been plenty from some of the posters who have posted in this thread.

I am racist? How so? I believe everyone is a human being and should be treated that way, everyone is an individual and should be treated by a case by case basis. I've been called many things in my life, but this one takes the cake.

@ Moledet

I did some research into what the college is all about.


Students at Yeshiva College pursue a rigorous dual educational program that combines liberal arts and sciences and pre-professional studies with the study of Torah and Jewish heritage, reflecting YU's unique educational philosophy of "Torah Umadda," which translates loosely as "wisdom and knowledge."

The College provides academic majors in 20 arts and sciences disciplines, all leading to the bachelor of arts degree. In addition, combined and joint degree programs are offered in several other disciplines--including engineering, dentistry, Jewish studies, optometry, podiatry, social work, nursing and psychology--in conjunction with YU's graduate schools and other leading universities.

The Jewish studies component of the College's dual curriculum is given through four distinct programs designed to meet the needs and interests of individual students. The options range from the traditional beit midrash style of learning to more structured college-style courses.


Is this the same university?

And if it was over drugs then most likely it was just a case of gang voilence, I think its best we make our decisions when all the facts are presented clear and on the table (but at this time nobodys been caught).

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

damn double posts :cantbeli:

[StarvingStudent47]

I never said you starving made any racial comments, there has been plenty from some of the posters who have posted in this thread.

I am racist? How so? I believe everyone is a human being and should be treated that way, everyone is an individual and should be treated by a case by case basis. I've been called many things in my life, but this one takes the cake.

Well then how about you quit talking about "you people" and things "you people" say and telling us to take this less seriously.

Let's say an Arab student gets stabbed and beaten in NYC. They were a peaceful, law-abiding citizen and they aren't robbed. Would you tell upset Arab-Americans to "not look so much into this?" And when an Arab-American got upset and insisted this was about race, would you tell him that "well some Arabs are racist too, so STFU," and leave it at that?

Would you assume that the Arab was stabbed over drugs, when there is NO mention of drugs ANYWHERE in the story?

If you don't answer "yes" to all these questions, tell me what the difference is.

[Moledet]

I never said you starving made any racial comments, there has been plenty from some of the posters who have posted in this thread.

I am racist? How so? I believe everyone is a human being and should be treated that way, everyone is an individual and should be treated by a case by case basis. I've been called many things in my life, but this one takes the cake.

@ Moledet

I did some research into what the college is all about.


Students at Yeshiva College pursue a rigorous dual educational program that combines liberal arts and sciences and pre-professional studies with the study of Torah and Jewish heritage, reflecting YU's unique educational philosophy of "Torah Umadda," which translates loosely as "wisdom and knowledge."

The College provides academic majors in 20 arts and sciences disciplines, all leading to the bachelor of arts degree. In addition, combined and joint degree programs are offered in several other disciplines--including engineering, dentistry, Jewish studies, optometry, podiatry, social work, nursing and psychology--in conjunction with YU's graduate schools and other leading universities.

The Jewish studies component of the College's dual curriculum is given through four distinct programs designed to meet the needs and interests of individual students. The options range from the traditional beit midrash style of learning to more structured college-style courses.


Is this the same university?

And if it was over drugs then most likely it was just a case of gang voilence, I think its best we make our decisions when all the facts are presented clear and on the table (but at this time nobodys been caught).
I was sarcastic when I said that it was about drugs, it's an antisemitic attack and it's pretty clear.
What other motive there is? He is not part of a gang, he doesn't have any ties with people that are not from his religion (that's how it is in the yeshiva) and the attackers didn't take anything that belongd to him. The only thing that left is that he was attacked because he "looked" Jewish (black suit, hat, etc...).
And Yeshiva is a place where religious Jewish youngsters go to. They learn Judhaism there (rules, the bible, prayers, etc...)

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Yet you yorself determine that it sounds like it was a case of "gang violence"... And your proof is?

Heres why I think it was gang related.

A:

A spokesman for the Forum of Jewish Organizations said one 16-year old boy was stabbed in the back during an attack late on Thursday by about 15 youngsters of Arab origin which the Forum believed was motivated by anti-Semitism.


The police didnt say this was a hate crime, it was the Forum of the Jewish Organizations.

B:

one 16-year old boy was stabbed in the back during an attack late on Thursday by about 15 youngsters of Arab origin

Gangs operate usually in force, you'll never fight a gang member by himself. They have initiations for members were they sometimes are told to go commit a crime with others, personally around my area we had a string of this. One lady got out of her car filled her tank up went into the store to pay for the gas, outside a dude hopped in the back of her car with a machete. The clerk asked the lady if anyone was with her she said no and they called the polica and caught the suspect. He had planned to "rape and kill" the lady to get into a "Crips" gang at the south end of the island.

C:


Ofcourse, the yeshiva is making drugs and the yeshiva student was the head of the drugs industries of the yeshiva. The arabs are part of another gang that want to gain control over the drug industry of Antwerepen, so they decided to kill the head of the yeshiva drug cooporation.

Believe what you will, I just find it hard to believe that people get attacked for "looking jewish". It would be nice if we can get a follow up in a couple of weeks to see what has happened on the police side of things and wether the suspects were arrested and charged.

[Tane Angle]

:| Just checking on things. Let's keep it civil, ok?

This would appear to be a hate crime, considering the dress, the wallet, etc. Regarding gang violence, while the attackers might have been motivated by gang-relations, it would not appear that the victim was a member of a gang, no? Does anyone have a link to the press release from the Belgian police?

[StarvingStudent47]

Hey BastardChild--

Regarding point C, the whole "yeshiva making drugs" thing was a SARCASTIC JOKE.

Regarding point B, the Ku Klux Klan ALSO operates in mobs. Guess everyone they kill is a gang member, huh?

[StarvingStudent47]

Believe what you will, I just find it hard to believe that people get attacked for "looking jewish".

People get killed for "looking Black." Ever been to Jasper, Texas?

If it can happen to Blacks, why can't it happen to Jews?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Regarding point B, the Ku Klux Klan ALSO operates in mobs. Guess everyone they kill is a gang member, huh?

Nope, you dont have to be in a gang to be targeted.


If it can happen to Blacks, why can't it happen to Jews?

Not saying it cant happen to jews, because it has happened before. I'm just saying in this instance it sounds a lil fishy to me thats all.

[Moledet]

You obviously know NOTHING about antisemitism or antisemitic attacks, you might wanna read history, many people were killed and attacked just becuase they were Jewish (tens of millions of people and not just in WW2).
Last year only in France there were about 50 reported antisemitic attacks, most of them we done by muslim immigrants.
http://www.crif.org/index.php?menu=5&dossier=33&PHPSESSID=54d8972b2e4f95ab3e4e39f153be8dc6

People get attacked because they are Jewish, the only reason that the attacks are not so common is thanks to Israel that invests billions of dollars to protect Jews all over the world and thanks to some cooporation from western governments that fight antisemitism.

[UkrainianAmerican]

:| Just checking on things. Let's keep it civil, ok?

This would appear to be a hate crime, considering the dress, the wallet, etc. Regarding gang violence, while the attackers might have been motivated by gang-relations, it would not appear that the victim was a member of a gang, no? Does anyone have a link to the press release from the Belgian police?
Heh, the ONLY negative thing yeshiva students are known for are being sissies/pussies, which i unfortunate in this case.

[UkrainianAmerican]

You obviously know NOTHING about antisemitism or antisemitic attacks, you might wanna read history, many people were killed and attacked just becuase they were Jewish (tens of millions of people and not just in WW2).
Last year only in France there were about 50 reported antisemitic attacks, most of them we done by muslim immigrants.
http://www.crif.org/index.php?menu=5&dossier=33&PHPSESSID=54d8972b2e4f95ab3e4e39f153be8dc6

People get attacked because they are Jewish, the only reason that the attacks are not so common is thanks to Israel that invests billions of dollars to protect Jews all over the world and thanks to some cooporation from western governments that fight antisemitism.
Hey dont forget US, we too use our diplomatic power to try to combat it ;)

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Maybe you didnt read my last post....so I will bold it for you


Not saying it cant happen to jews, because it has happened before. I'm just saying in this instance it sounds a lil fishy to me thats all.

Key words I will remove out of the sentance for you "a lil fishy to me thats all". I respect your opinion so respect mine.

I tried to find more info on this story else-were....I cant seem to find anything. If anyone else has another link it would be appreciated.

[Zarathustra]

Last year only in France there were about 50 reported antisemitic attacks, most of them we done by muslim immigrants.
http://www.crif.org/index.php?

The answer is in this post, it's in majority the arabs immigrants how attacked the jews in Europe. European people antisemite? I don't think so but the media in all the west Europe are pro-palestinian (France, germany, spain, belgium etc) and the politic man support palestinian people because there are more arabs in their countries that jews, election reason... :roll:

brainwashing if you prefer... :(

[Sayeret]

Believe what you will, I just find it hard to believe that people get attacked for "looking jewish".


Well it would be nice if people didn't attack people because what they look like but thats what happens. I remember hearing about how a Hindu was killed after 9/11 because someone thought he was a Muslim. Also I wouldn't be so skeptical of hate crimes against Jews.

[BlackRain]

People in glass houses should not throw stones. ;)


Antisemitism in the United Kingdom


Most antisemitism in the UK today emanates from militant Islamist and other Muslim groups. Despite a 23 percent decline in 2001 from the previous year, there has been an upward trend in antisemitic incidents over the last four years, and a tendency toward more violent attacks on the Jewish community. Thirty-two percent of the year’s total occurred during September and October, after the September 11 attacks. The strengthening of Britain’s Race Hatred laws in two separate acts of legislation in 2001 has effectively put a stop to the publication and distribution of overt antisemitic and Holocaust denial propaganda. Two anti-terrorism acts were passed in 2001, one after the September 11 attacks.



the jewish community
The Jewish community of the United Kingdom numbers 280,000, out of a total population of 58,000,000. Two-thirds of the community is concentrated in Greater London. Other major Jewish centers are Manchester (30,000), Leeds (10,000) and Glasgow (6,500). The Jewish population has experienced a marked decline since 1967, mainly due to a low birthrate, intermarriage and emigration.

The central organization of British Jewry is the Board of Deputies of British Jews (BoD). Security and defense activity is organized through the Community Security Trust (CST). Welfare and education are given high communal priority through organizations such as the United Jewish Israel Appeal and Jewish Care. A network of Jewish day schools operates in London and in other major cities. There are also a number of Jewish tertiary study centers, including the London School of Jewish Studies (formerly Jews College) for training Orthodox Rabbis, Leo Baeck College for training Reform and Liberal Rabbis, and the Oxford Center for Hebrew and Jewish Studies at Yarnton. The main community papers are the 160-year-old Jewish Chronicle, The Jewish Telegraph published simultaneously in northern cities, and the London Jewish News. Two Jewish websites are based in the UK: totallyjewish.com and jewish.co.uk, carrying national and international news.



political parties and extra-parliamentary groups

Political Parties
The largest extreme right organization, the British National Party (BNP), downplayed its Nazi origins in 2001 and switched the focus of its activities to issues of current concern. From March until the early part of the summer it was active in the race riots in northern cities, especially Oldham and Burnley, sparked off by disgruntled Muslim Asian youths. After 11 September it began to campaign against the Muslim community, producing anti-Muslim leaflets, which were widely distributed. It also sought an alliance with extremists within the Sikh and Hindu communities, an approach that was widely criticized within those communities and proved to be short-lived. During the latter part of the year, however, this campaign ceased and was replaced by one against street-crime, which continued into the new year.

Thirty-three BNP candidates received an average of 1,430 votes, or 3.92 percent, in the May general election, in the constituencies in which they stood. Only three candidates – BNP leader Nick Griffen, in the Oldham West and Royton constituency, Steve Smith (see Court Cases below) in Burnley, and Mick Treacy in Oldham East and Saddleworth – received more than 10 percent of the votes.

BNP’s fundraising activities in the US were brought abruptly to a halt when it was alleged that they contravened US and British laws against political funding. However, BNP leader Nick Griffin continued to visit the US (on three occasions) for extensive speaking engagements with the Council of Conservative Citizens, American Renaissance and David Duke’s NOFEAR organization (see USA). So far the BNP has failed to gain the level of support in Australia that it achieved in the US under the guidance of Mark Cotterill (see ASW 1999/2000), but activity continues. As in past years members participated in the French FN’s Bleu Blanc Rouge festival in September.

Leadership problems, which have disrupted the organization for years, resurfaced during the latter part of the year when former founding leader John Tyndall issued a new challenge to Griffin’s leadership.

The National Front (NF) sought publicity by demonstrating during the early part of the year in south coast port towns against asylum seekers, and again during April and May in the southeast London suburb of Bermondsey against the local black community. The NF also participated in the Oldham race riots and a number of its leaders were subsequently arrested and charged with criminal damage. Its main focus of activity however is Northern Ireland where it maintains links with Loyalist extremists.

The Young National Front and its publication Bulldog were reactivated during the early part of the year, carrying out activity in Oxfordshire, Surrey and East and North London.

In the general election, the five NF candidates received an average of 497 votes, or 1.4 percent of the votes cast, in the constituencies in which they stood. Together with four other far right candidates and the BNP contestants, a total of 42 extreme right-wingers ran in the election compared with 87 in the 1997 general election. They achieved an average of 1,216 votes, compared with 572 in 1997 – 3.3 percent of the vote compared with 1.2 percent in 1997.

Both the BNP and NF promote antisemitism and Holocaust denial although rarely in their own literature. They are, nevertheless, reflected in the speeches of leaders and members, and in the literature sold through their book clubs.



Extra-Parliamentary Groups
Open support for neo-Nazi skinhead groups fell considerably during 2001. Combat 18 virtually ceased activity, and a Day of Action against the Jewish community advertised on its Skrewdriver website for 22 April, failed to take place; nevertheless, former supporters continue to participate in Blood & Honour, which is controlled by the British Movement (BM). The BM maintains branches in south London and the Midlands, and has been attempting to extend its contacts in eastern Europe by personal visits and through the distribution of its publication Broadsword. The leadership is vested in a group of long-standing members, including Steve Frost, Danny Tolan, Micky Lane and Benny Bullman.

The national revolutionary International Third Position (ITP) continues to build its contacts in eastern Europe, France and Spain. The ITP is closely associated with Roberto Fiore and the late Massimo Morsello, former members of the Italian national revolutionary terrorist group, the Armed Revolutionary Nuclei. During 2001 the ITP consolidated its contacts in the US. It is the most outspokenly anti-Zionist and pro-Islamist of all the radical right wing groups.

Other tiny extreme nationalist or white supremacist groups continue to function on a low level, such as the English Solidarity Group, formerly led by the late Lady Jane Birdwood and whose membership includes former NF leader Martin Webster and former NF member Peter Marriner. Donald Martin, who was forced out of the Federation of Small Businesses Policy Unit, of which he was chairman, by anti-racism campaigners, continues to publish and distribute white supremacist and antisemitic literature through Bloomfield Books and On Target Publications. His supporters, who overlap with those of the League of St George and the Friends of Oswald Mosley, include mostly former NF followers who promote a white commonwealth of Britain, Australia and Canada.



Militant Islamist and Other Muslim Groups
Most open antisemitism in the UK now emanates from extreme Muslim groups. The most active in the UK is al-Muhajiroun (The Emigrants – AM) which, while claiming not to support terrorism, nevertheless continued to champion Usama bin Ladin, al-Qa‘ida and the Taliban prior to and after 11 September. AM are extremely hostile toward Israel and speakers at AM eventsdeny the Holocaust and have often called for the killing of Jews. AM promote their public activities by extensive illegal flyer-posting and by faxing regular press releases to other Muslim groups, the Jewish community and the media. In October the director of public prosecutions dropped charges against five AM members arrested in October 2000 whilst distributing leaflets advocating the killing of Jews. However, two other members of AM were to face similar charges during 2002. In November founder Omar Bakri Muhammad and current leader Anjem Choudhary stated that the Muslim world was happy with the events of 11 September and expressed satisfaction, at an AM meeting in Willesden, North London, in November, that the Jews were cursed in the Qur‘an. However, their rhetoric, open support for terrorism training and their claims to have sent volunteers to Afghanistan and other countries of jihad have been toned down as a consequence of new laws banning support for terrorism and making illegal calls for the murder of religious minorities abroad (see below).

In April the National Union of Students voted to ban AM from university campuses despite an attempt by the Trotskyite Socialist Workers Student Society to block the motion.

Sakina Security Services, associated with AM and other Islamist groups, ceased activity following the arrest in September and October of its leaders, who were imprisoned pending trial on terrorism charges.

Hizb ut-Tahrir (HUT), from which AM split in 1996 under the leadership of Omar Bakri Muhammad, recommenced public activity during the latter part of 2001. Like AM, HUT promotes the establishment of an Islamic state encompassing all the Muslim umma and supports the activities of violent Islamist groups in other countries. It is antisemitic, homophobic, anti-Hindu and anti-Sikh.

The tiny Islamic Party of Britain, which comprises mainly converts to Islam, campaigns primarily through its website, although members address public meetings held by other organizations. It continues to propagate antisemitism.

Supporters of Shariah (SOS), led by Egyptian Shaykh Mustafa Kamil, aka Abu Hamza al-Masri, continues its activity but at a much reduced level. Abu Hamza’s use of his North London mosque at Finsbury Park for recruitment to al-Qa‘ida, and the revelations that a number of al-Qa‘ida detainees apprehended in Afghanistan were enlisted through the mosque, have led to media calls for his arrest. SOS remains implacably anti-Zionist, promoting an antisemitism which combines traditional religious anti-Judaism with Protocols of the Elders of Zion-style conspiracy theories.

The Islamic Observation Center (IOC), led by Egyptian Islamist Yasir al-Sirri, aka Abu ‘Ammar (who was sentenced to death in Egypt), ceased activity following his arrest in October in connection with facilitating the murder of Afghan Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Mas‘ud. He is also the subject of an American government extradition request relating to terrorism charges.



antisemitic activities

Violence, Vandalism, Threats and Insults
A total of 310 antisemitic incidents were reported during 2001, a 23 percent decrease from the previous year (405 incidents). Thirty-two percent of the year’s total (98 incidents) occurred during September and October in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

There were 41 physical assaults against members of the community (13 percent of the total), including one life-threatening attack, compared with 53 assaults in 2000 (13 percent of the total). Incidents of damage and desecration of property increased to 90 incidents in 2001 (29 percent of the total) compared with 73 in 2000 (18 percent of the total).

The targeted distribution of antisemitic literature, however, declined to 20 incidents in 2001 (6 percent of the total) compared to 44 in 2000 (11 percent of the total). This reflects the impact of criminal prosecutions and the fear of prosecution under strengthened public order legislation, as well as the change of far right targeting to Muslim and other ethnic and religious minority communities.

Over a four-year period, however, reported antisemitic incidents show an upward trend, and a tendency toward more violent attacks on the Jewish community. They also reflect the global pattern, whereby violence in the Middle East has generated attacks against Diaspora communities. It should be noted that while an increasing proportion of attacks against the Jewish community was committed by Muslims and Asians, the Muslim community also suffered a high level of attacks after 11 September.

Racist incidents reported to the police in the London area fell in 2001, to 20,628 incidents from 23,346 incidents in 2000. The decline reflects the success of police targeting of racist crimes. Racist incidents nationwide, however, rose to 53,092 incidents in 2001 from 47,814 in 2000, reflecting the effect of the riots in northern cities during the spring.

Almost half the prosecutions that followed the incidents were new offenses of racially aggravated crime brought under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, which came into force in September 1999. These rose from 21,750 offenses in 2000 to 25,103 in 2001.



Propaganda
The strengthening of Britain’s Race Hatred laws in two separate acts of legislation in 2001 (see below) has now effectively put a stop to the publication and distribution of overt and crude antisemitic and Holocaust denial propaganda. However, the organizations listed above continue to disseminate implicit anti-Jewish propaganda and during the course of the year denigrated the Holocaust and Jewish claims to restitution.

Anti-Israel argumentation has frequently overstepped the line and become outright antisemitism, a trend that has now become the province of the far and the liberal left. One example which outraged the Jewish community was the publication of an article by Faisal Bodi, former student activist and now editor of the electronic Muslim affairs journal ummahnews.com, in The Guardian in January, entitled “Israel Simply Has No Right to Exist.” Bodi argued that peace with the Palestinians might have a chance without Israel’s biblical claim, and that Israel’s claim to legitimacy and its international recognition are based on dubious decisions by non-representative international bodies. Bodi is an occasional correspondent for The Guardian and has been allowed to use his position to campaign against Israel and in favor of Islamist militancy. The Guardian’s moderated Comments website, and that of The Independent newspaper, both occasionally publish crude antisemitism, including endorsements of The Protocols.

Likewise, public demonstrations by the Stop the War Coalition, which brought together far left and Islamic militants to protest American action against Afghanistan after 11 September, were the venue for antisemitic invective by Islamic militants.

In February 2002 the left-liberal weekly magazine New Statesman was widely criticized for publishing anti-Israel and antisemitic material, including a front cover which showed a Magen David piercing the Union Jack symbol of Britain, under the headline “A Kosher Conspiracy?”



attitudes toward the holocaust and the nazi era

Holocaust Commemoration
Britain’s second Holocaust Memorial Day on 27 January, the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, was marked by a national meeting held in Manchester attended by the home secretary, BoD leaders and leaders of other faith and community groups, as well as a wide range of local activities organized by local councils and education authorities. Holocaust Memorial Day is planned and coordinated by a steering committee of Home Office and Department for Education officials, together with representatives of the Holocaust Education Trust, the BoD, and Beth Shalom, a privately funded Holocaust museum near Nottingham. The focus is on the Holocaust, but educational events and meetings also highlight racism, including atrocities committed in Cambodia, Rwanda and former Yugoslavia.

Holocaust Memorial Day is now firmly fixed in the national events calendar and it is planned that the central event will be held in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in rotation, returning to London for a televised event on the sixth anniversary of its inception.



Holocaust Denial
The most active proponents of Holocaust denial are now Islamist groups. In April the pro-Hamas Palestine Times published an article “Could Zionism Lie about the Holocaust too,” in which the writer Khalid Amayreh took up the theme, subsequently repeated in other Islamist publications, that Zionists have told so many lies about history that it is not inconceivable that they have lied about the Holocaust.

Holocaust Memorial Day elicited a number of negative responses from some sections of the Muslim community. The Muslim Council of Britain, an umbrella body representing Muslim organizations, stated that it would not attend the national event, for the second year running, because it excluded current acts of “genocide” in Kashmir and Palestine. AM held a series of meetings entitled “Holocaust Lie Exposed” and “Holocaust: Fact or Fiction? Israel’s Justification for Killing Muslims.”

In February Omar Bakri Muhammed posted a message to the AM website in which he wrote: “How could Hitler kill 6,800,000 Jews when there was only [sic] 3,500,000 Jews living in Europe? This talk will trace back the lie of the Holocaust and show how it has been used to justify the on-going Holocaust and genocide against the innocent Muslims in Palestine and to legitimize the existence of the Terrorist State of Israel.”

Alexander Baron, a former member of the BM who now publishes anti-Zionist material through his Anglo Hebrew Publishing and its associated InfoText Manuscripts, wrote a series of Holocaust-denial articles published on his own, and others’, Internet sites.

David Irving’s almost continual presence in the US ensured that he remained marginal to Holocaust denial propagation in the UK, but on two occasions, in May and subsequently in January 2002, British universities invited him to debate the issues of free speech, although both subsequently withdrew the invitations.

The decision to refuse David Irving’s request for an appeal against the judgement against him (see below), and his prolonged absence from the UK have isolated him further from the British extreme right.

British Holocaust deniers are not known to have participated in the international Holocaust denial conferences held in Moscow or Trieste during the year, but reports of the conferences appeared in British publications, notably Final Conflict e-mail newsletter, published by the ITP.



War Crimes
The Metropolitan Police continued to investigate allegations of war crimes despite the formal closure of the War Crimes Unit. In September they began an investigation of former members of a Ukrainian SS unit now living in Britain, accused of massacres in Nazi-occupied Poland.

Antanas Gecas, the Lithuanian accused of murdering 30,000 Jews and the subject of a Lithuanian government extradition request at the beginning of the year, died in September. He had not been tried in Britain because of evidential problems but he had been branded a war criminal by the judge who had heard his failed civil action against Scottish Television which had screened a documentary about him.



RESPONSES TO RACISM AND ANTISEMITISM

Legislation
The Terrorism Act 2000 was passed in February, finally putting Britain’s anti-terrorism legislation on a permanent footing. The act allows for the proscription of terrorist groups and prevents members or supporters of such groups from raising finances or organizing other material aid in the UK, or planning acts of terrorism abroad. Among the organizations proscribed are al-Qa‘ida, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and al-Jama‘a al-Islamiyya, the Algerian Groupe Islamique Armée (GIA) and Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC), Hizballah External Security Organization, Hamas – Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Abu Nidal organization.

After 11 September, further legislation was passed in the Anti-terrorism Crime and Security Act 2001. Among its clauses, the act extends the provisions concerning involvement in international terrorism, increases the penalty for incitement to racial hatred and creates new offenses out of “religiously aggravated” crimes.

Safeguards were enacted for victims of racial and antisemitic harassment in the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, passed in June. They allow the police to arrest, without warrant, any person or group of persons they reasonably suspect of being likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress, and will provide relief to those who suffer antisemitic abuse or continued harassment from neighbors. The act also strengthened the existing Malicious Communications Act 1988 by providing a custodial sentence, rather than the previous small fine, on conviction. The act now also covers electronic mail.

In October the government published its Race Equality Scheme drawn up in accordance with the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000. Under the scheme public authorities will have to assess and monitor their own functions and policies to ensure that they promote racial equality. The act gives the Commission for Racial Equality statutory power of enforcement where it believes public authorities, which include the police and armed forces, are failing to promote racial equality. This ambitious scheme was promoted by the government as part of a wider project to modernize public services in Britain.

In February 2002 the government began a three-month public consultation process in preparation for national implementation of the European anti-discrimination directives adopted under Article 13 of the EC Treaty. The public has until the end of March 2002 to comment on the government’s proposals for implementation. These contain minor amendments to the existing Race Relations Act, including a new definition of indirect discrimination and the removal of several exemptions. New legislation will be introduced to outlaw discrimination in employment on the grounds of religion, ****** orientation and age. Also revealed are longer term plans to move toward a single Equality Commission, replacing the three existing public bodies that support people facing discrimination on grounds of race, gender or disability.



Court Cases
The long delayed case against veteran neo-Nazi leader Colin Jordan was finally stayed owing to his ill health. However, the trial was to resume if his health improved and he had to undertake not to engage in certain political, social and personal activities. The case against his co-defendant Anthony *******, printer and publisher of many neo-Nazi publications and hate propaganda, continued. Both were charged with publishing and distributing leaflets which had incited hatred against the then president of the BoD.

In addition, a number of prominent neo-Nazis were convicted during the course of the year for incitement and related offenses. Simon Northfield, a member of the NF, was found guilty of criminal damage following his participation in an attack on an anti-Nazi League display at Croydon Town Hall on Holocaust Memorial Day in January 2001. Paul Davies was convicted of racially aggravated harassment and fined in December for making Nazi salutes at a Spurs football match. Passing sentence the judge commented that Davies was motivated by hostility towards Spurs fans because of their Jewish connection and his actions had the potential to cause a major outbreak of violence.

David Irving finally lost his request for an appeal in July. His original appeal had been turned down by the judge who presided over his failed libel action against Professor Deborah Lipstadt in the High Court (see ASW 2000/1). Subsequently Penguin, Lipstadt’s publishers and co-defendant, applied for payment of their interim costs. Having refused to pay, Irving was declared bankrupt in March 2002.

The case of Algerian asylum seeker Nabil Ould Eddine, who was charged with the attempted murder of yeshiva student Myer David Myers in October 2000, has been adjourned pending the outcome of psychiatric reports.

There were also several cases of Middle East nationals and British Muslims accused of links with terrorism. In February three Algerians and a Jordanian of Palestinian origin (Omar Othman, aka Abu Qatada) were arrested and charged with terrorist offenses, after the al-Qa‘ida plot to bomb Strasbourg Cathedral was uncovered by a joint European investigation. The Spanish government subsequently declared that Abu Qatada was bin Ladin’s senior European representative.

Yasir al-Sirri, aka Abu ‘Ammar, of the Islamic Observation Center, was charged with incitement (in addition to the conspiracy to murder charge – see above), after publishing an antisemitic book by Rifai Ahmed Taha, leader of the Egyptian al-Jama‘a al-Islamiyya abroad and one of bin-Ladin’s top aides.

In November Palestinians Samar ‘Alami and Jawad Botmeh, who belonged to a faction of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, lost their appeal against conviction for the 1994 bombing of the Israel embassy and the Balfour House headquarters of the UJIA. Meetings and demonstrations had been held during the year by their supporters, who now plan an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.

Non-aligned Islamists Mu‘in al-Abidin of Birmingham and Faysal Mustafa of Manchester were charged with conspiracy to cause explosions and Abidin was convicted and sentenced to 20 years in February 2002. Mustafa was found not guilty although he had been convicted of a terrorist-related offense five years previously, in an alleged plot to assassinate the then Israel ambassador.

A Muslim cleric, ‘Abdallah al-Faysal, was charged with soliciting to murder and may be charged with further offenses of racial incitement. Al-Faysal is a Jamaican-born convert to Islam who publishes audio and video tapes which call for the killing of Jews. Al-Faysal was the one who allegedly influenced Richard Reid and Zacarias Moussawi, the al-Qa‛ida members charged with terrorist offenses after 11 September.

In October the High Court overturned the Home Secretary’s ban on Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam (NOI) but he remains unable to visit Britain following the rejection of his petition to an appeals court in March 2002. NOI continues its activity, but at a low level, having failed to make any real impact on Britain’s Afro-Caribbean community.


Public Activities
Following the race riots in northern cities in the spring and early summer, the government commissioned a series of reports. The Community Cohesion Review Team chaired by Ted Cantle published its report in December. The team was specifically asked to seek the views of local people in the areas affected, and identified a number of recurring elements contributing to deeply fractured communities. These included ignorance about each other’s communities, frustration borne out of poverty and deprivation, failure to communicate between communities, a lack of clear and consistent messages from principal local and political leaders, and no attempt to develop clear values on the meaning of being a citizen in a multi-racial Britain. The team recommended that the government initiate a national debate on these issues, specifically involving younger people. One particular recommendation which promoted much media comment was the development of a meaningful concept of citizenship, which is to be developed by the Home Office minister to whom the team reported.



Police Activity
Operation Athena, the Metropolitan Police operation against racial and violent crime, continued during 2001 and has now been extended to other areas outside London (see ASW 2000/1). Among the initiatives promoted by Operation Athena was a coordinated series of raids on suspected hate criminals in London by the Racial and Violent Crime Task Force, which led to more than one hundred arrests, a month-long drive to tackle racist and homophobic crime, launched in March, and the development of third party reporting sites which encourage victims to report hate crime, and which offer victim support through a partnership between police and specialist agencies, including the CST.

All police training in the UK has now been amended to reflect the requirements of the Human Rights Act.

[Mongrel]

And Black rain steps up to bat and sends out of the ball park. Intersting post dude. :D

Also I'd like to add..if yah carry a weapon..for god sake know how, and when to use it, and learn your local laws. Most situations are preventable though with some observation skills planning, and common sense.

I lived in a pretty rough place growing up, and carried a small hatchet to highschool..which was a step up from the knives everyone else had.

The Sikh guys would leave you alone, and could be helpful, but the Iranians, and Chinese would try to mob you.

The First nations gangs could often be backed down if you made it look like you intended to do damage if attacked. Ah youth, and yes this was in Canada. :-*$ :fork: :slap:

[StarvingStudent47]

Not saying it cant happen to jews, because it has happened before. I'm just saying in this instance it sounds a lil fishy to me thats all.

Okay, I probably was too heated before. But let me ask a serious question: what sounds fishy here? A visibly Orthodox Jewish guy (hat, coat, etc) is surrounded by a 15-man mob of young Arab men. The mob doesn't know this guy and vice versa. The yeshiva student is beaten and stabbed, but he is not robbed. Why is it so "fishy" to think that possibly, ethnicity was the motivation? It doesn't get any more clean-cut than this. This is a TEXTBOOK hate crime incident.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Antisemitism in the United Kingdom
Tell me something I don't know. Its worth adding that our anti-Semites don't gather in a big Nazi camp every year shoot of a couple of thousand rounds at targets of Zionists and enemies of the white race then shout out Zeig Heil after every speech. Oh and despite the fact that we do have a number of anti-Semites we don't shoot Jewish talk show hosts or have drive by's on Hasidim. ;)

[Fredd00]

Why can't people leave there old countries political/ethnic crap/battle bones to pick, at the front gate when the become new citizens in a new country? :bash:
Same crap happens in Canada.
I hope they deport those bastards back to where ever.


Small chance I bet, they shouldn't have been allowed to come at first place.

[Tengu]

There were people protesting in antwerp today against rascism organized by the jewish community and anti-rascism league because of the attack on the jew.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

RavenW, a Jew should only live in Israel, that's the safest country in the world. Some nations ofcourse were never hit by terror but when they will get hit (it's just a matter of time) they won't know how to stop the attacks while Israel already stop most of them.
Mmm.. its maybe safe for Jewish folk but not for Christian evangelists I hope the situation has improved since these events.



Israeli Mob Attacks Jewish-Christians

Hundreds of Jewish rioters attacked Jewish Christians on Saturday, Nov. 28, 1998 in Jerusalem "after a rumor spread in the city's synagogues that missionaries were baptizing Jewish children."

Black-coated Jewish Orthodox Hasidim left their synagogues to go to a house in the Be'er Sheva quarter, where a Christian congregation of more than three dozen men, women and children, members of the "Jews for Jesus" movement, were meeting.

The Christians were trapped and surrounded and had to be rescued by the Israeli police.

One Jewish-Christian decribed the attack: "A mob of men in black surrounded us and were shouting and throwing stones and they tried to jump over the fence. We were especially scared for the children. We're not missionaries."

A few days ago in Kiryat Malachi, several dozen Hasidic 'Jews' stoned an American couple who were accused of being missionaries. The Americans denied being missionaries. They said they were working for a philanthropic group from Switzerland.

Source: Ha'aretz, Nov. 29, 1998


Jewish Mob Attacks Swiss Christians

On Nov. 15, 1998, a "mob of 500 ultra-Orthodox men attacked and ransacked an apartment rented by three Swiss Christian women."

The women were also charged with conducting evangelism in Jerusalem's Mea She'arim quarter.

Christian evangelism is banned by Israeli law.

Source: Ha'aretz, Nov. 29, 1998

[Moledet]

RavenW, a Jew should only live in Israel, that's the safest country in the world. Some nations ofcourse were never hit by terror but when they will get hit (it's just a matter of time) they won't know how to stop the attacks while Israel already stop most of them.
Mmm.. its maybe safe for Jewish folk but not for Christian evangelists I hope the situation has improved since these events.



Israeli Mob Attacks Jewish-Christians

Hundreds of Jewish rioters attacked Jewish Christians on Saturday, Nov. 28, 1998 in Jerusalem "after a rumor spread in the city's synagogues that missionaries were baptizing Jewish children."

Black-coated Jewish Orthodox Hasidim left their synagogues to go to a house in the Be'er Sheva quarter, where a Christian congregation of more than three dozen men, women and children, members of the "Jews for Jesus" movement, were meeting.

The Christians were trapped and surrounded and had to be rescued by the Israeli police.

One Jewish-Christian decribed the attack: "A mob of men in black surrounded us and were shouting and throwing stones and they tried to jump over the fence. We were especially scared for the children. We're not missionaries."

A few days ago in Kiryat Malachi, several dozen Hasidic 'Jews' stoned an American couple who were accused of being missionaries. The Americans denied being missionaries. They said they were working for a philanthropic group from Switzerland.

Source: Ha'aretz, Nov. 29, 1998


Jewish Mob Attacks Swiss Christians

On Nov. 15, 1998, a "mob of 500 ultra-Orthodox men attacked and ransacked an apartment rented by three Swiss Christian women."

The women were also charged with conducting evangelism in Jerusalem's Mea She'arim quarter.

Christian evangelism is banned by Israeli law.

Source: Ha'aretz, Nov. 29, 1998
Yes, so? These idiots also throw stones on "Jewish cars" that drive in Saturday.
They even don't want to speak Hebrew, only yidish until that Messiah come, so please, don't bring them as an example.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Ahi, don't even speak with them!

You see their level. Don't lower yours.

Shalom!
Can you explain this statement RavenW there was nothing offensive in any of the previous 9 posts but you seem dismissive of them, none of the posters before you has a reputation for race hate but you place them at a lower moral or ideological level than your own. :|

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?

[Moledet]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?
Yes, it's the Jews country.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?
Yes, it's the Jews country.

I thought Israel was a secular state.

[Moledet]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?
Yes, it's the Jews country.

I thought Israel was a secular state.
This preaching thing goes for all religions, no one is allowed to convince others to join his religion.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?
Yes, it's the Jews country.

I thought Israel was a secular state.
This preaching thing goes for all religions, no one is allowed to convince others to join his religion.
Well I suppose Israel is a modern state with modern laws so it seems fair enough that the overt promotion of religion is banned, I suppose I could live with that law.

[citizen-k]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?
Yes, it's the Jews country.

I thought Israel was a secular state.

I guess moledet is not secular ;)

Israel is a modern-secular-jew-based country :lol:

You can live here and belive what ever you want - but you can't convert others.

The situation is not that simple due to the fact the the state of Israel wishes to remain "Jewish" without hurting others. It's a long debate, which shouldn't be done with one Israeli (moledet - not secular) because he is not representing the hole truth. (I'm not saying he is lying - he is just telling you his point of view)

A well known say in hebrew is: "2 Jews, 3 opinions" - there are over 5 million Jews in Israel, do your math
;)

[tacticalmanta]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?
Yes, it's the Jews country.

I thought Israel was a secular state.

You can be secular with an ETHNIC identity. Even Jewish buddhists are welcome in Israel.

[tacticalmanta]

Meet the AEL.. they are well loved in Belgium:

http://www.arabeuropean.org/English/index.html

[Moledet]

What interests me Moledet is that there would be such an outrage over Christian evangelism especially since American Christian evangelists are very pro Israel. Is Christian evangelism realy banned by Israeli law?
Yes, it's the Jews country.

I thought Israel was a secular state.

I guess moledet is not secular ;)

Israel is a modern-secular-jew-based country :lol:

You can live here and belive what ever you want - but you can't convert others.

The situation is not that simple due to the fact the the state of Israel wishes to remain "Jewish" without hurting others. It's a long debate, which shouldn't be done with one Israeli (moledet - not secular) because he is not representing the hole truth. (I'm not saying he is lying - he is just telling you his point of view)

A well known say in hebrew is: "2 Jews, 3 opinions" - there are over 5 million Jews in Israel, do your math
;)
Hey, I am secular, not anyone who support Moledet need to be orthodox.

P.S. There are 6 million Jews in Israel, the population is 7.2 million, 1.2 million non Jews and 6 million Jews.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

P.S. There are 6 million Jews in Israel, the population is 7.2 million, 1.2 million non Jews and 6 million Jews.
I might be sticking my neck out here arguing about the population of Israel but you seemed to have gained 1 million since 2001.

NUMBER OF JEWS IN ISRAEL PASSES 5 MILLION;
ISRAEL'S LARGEST CITY - JERUSALEM

On the eve of Rosh Hashanah 5763, the number of Jews in Israel passed the 5 million mark. According to data published by the central Bureau of Statistics this week, 6, 592,0000 people live in Israel. 77.2% of them are Jews and 19% are Arab - the same proportion as in the period immediately following the establishment of the state. 15.4% of the population is Muslim; 1.1% is Christian; 1.6% is Druse; and 3.5% is religiously unidentified (most of them immigrants from the FSU who are not Jewish according to halacha.

According to the Statistical Yearbook, 43,600 people immigrated to Israel during 2001 and 7,000 Israelis returned after spending years abroad. 20,000 Israelis left Israel for a prolonged period.

136,638 babies were born in Israel, 91,230 of them to Jewish women. Natural population growth is greater among Palestinians than among Jews - something that jeopardizes future Jewish demography. Palestinian women give birth to an average of 4.6 children in the course of their lives, while Jewish women have an average of 2.7 children.

117,525 students studied at universities last year - a 3.5% increase compared to last year.

Israeli women have a higher life expectancy than men - 80.9% compared to 76%.

And good news for those who love Jerusalem, Israel's capital. The city is the largest in Israel with 670,000 residents.

[tacticalmanta]

no.. even in 2001 the population of Jews in Israel was around 6 million.

[Moledet]

P.S. There are 6 million Jews in Israel, the population is 7.2 million, 1.2 million non Jews and 6 million Jews.
I might be sticking my neck out here arguing about the population of Israel but you seemed to have gained 1 million since 2001.

NUMBER OF JEWS IN ISRAEL PASSES 5 MILLION;
ISRAEL'S LARGEST CITY - JERUSALEM

On the eve of Rosh Hashanah 5763, the number of Jews in Israel passed the 5 million mark. According to data published by the central Bureau of Statistics this week, 6, 592,0000 people live in Israel. 77.2% of them are Jews and 19% are Arab - the same proportion as in the period immediately following the establishment of the state. 15.4% of the population is Muslim; 1.1% is Christian; 1.6% is Druse; and 3.5% is religiously unidentified (most of them immigrants from the FSU who are not Jewish according to halacha.

According to the Statistical Yearbook, 43,600 people immigrated to Israel during 2001 and 7,000 Israelis returned after spending years abroad. 20,000 Israelis left Israel for a prolonged period.

136,638 babies were born in Israel, 91,230 of them to Jewish women. Natural population growth is greater among Palestinians than among Jews - something that jeopardizes future Jewish demography. Palestinian women give birth to an average of 4.6 children in the course of their lives, while Jewish women have an average of 2.7 children.

117,525 students studied at universities last year - a 3.5% increase compared to last year.

Israeli women have a higher life expectancy than men - 80.9% compared to 76%.

And good news for those who love Jerusalem, Israel's capital. The city is the largest in Israel with 670,000 residents.
You are right, I was wrong, the population of israel is 6.78 million, 81% are Jewish and 19% are arabs (Duruz, Muslims, Christian, Beduhians, Bahaians).
Last year 144,000 babies were born, from former USSR 11,000 immigrants came, from Ethiopia 2,600, from France 1,800, from US 1,600 and from Argentina 1,200.

[tacticalmanta]

sounds like that census left out Yesha

But just a funny aside, the director of the census in Israel is an Arab.

[Tengu]

Meet the AEL.. they are well loved in Belgium:

http://www.arabeuropean.org/English/index.htmlHOLY JESUS, they are NOT loved, they are HATED.

[tacticalmanta]

then why did some many people vote for them?

[cut]

then why did some many people vote for them?

are you suggesting Vlams Blok is pro-arab? :lol:

[tacticalmanta]

I am suggestiing that the AEL is gaining a lot of support. You comment is pointless.

[cut]

I am suggestiing that the AEL is gaining a lot of support. You comment is pointless.

well it seems that the far-right anti-arabs/anti-immigration are doing better.. which nullifies your point

[tacticalmanta]

Why do some British strive to live their lives to define twit.

Since the AEL is a young party and is gaining seats, it is reckless and just plain wrong to say tey are doing better than the far right. Yes, the far right has a better position, but they have been around a lot longer. For a party to appear out of the blue and represent totally new ideas and rapidly gain support, this is something that should not go unnoticed.. especially as they enter other countries like Holland.

[cut]

Why do some British strive to live their lives to define twit.

Since the AEL is a young party and is gaining seats, it is reckless and just plain wrong to say tey are doing better than the far right. Yes, the far right has a better position, but they have been around a lot longer. For a party to appear out of the blue and represent totally new ideas and rapidly gain support, this is something that should not go unnoticed.. especially as they enter other countries like Holland.

and that makes them well loved?

and if you can keep your xenophobia of this website, we'd all be greatful.

[tacticalmanta]

probably their anti-Jewish and anti-Israel feelings that align with much of European sentiment. Who knows, I don't support them.

[cut]

probably their anti-Jewish and anti-Israel feelings that align with much of European sentiment. Who knows, I don't support them.

no, I mean the fact they are a newly started party that has started getting votes right away, earns it, in your mind the title "well loved in Belgium"?

[tacticalmanta]

so getting votes would mean they are hated according to your logic?

[cut]

so getting votes would mean they are hated according to your logic?

not necessarily, but calling them well-loved is a misleading overstatement

[tacticalmanta]

well from my experience, not a point of fact, those Belgians that I have met, who are not "military people" support the AEL.

[cut]

well from my experience, not a point of fact, those Belgians that I have met, who are not "military people" support the AEL.

Belgians you meet in Florida?

[tacticalmanta]

Belgians I met in Belgium you pratt.

[cut]

what? they travel :D

well loved, still sounds to me like an exageration. I would expect AEL voting to come mostly from an arab immigrant cleavage. With the respect but not politcal support of other belgians.

[Tengu]

I am suggestiing that the AEL is gaining a lot of support. You comment is pointless.Not true they are doing so poorly that nobody mentioned them after the elections. They didn't even get one stinking percent. Even most arabs hate that party.

The big winner of the elections was extreme-right; Vlaams Blok. This party is growing more and more.

[Secret Squirrel]

well from my experience, not a point of fact, those Belgians that I have met, who are not "military people" support the AEL.

Belgians you meet in Florida?

dont you know tacticalmanta is apparently in the coast guard, had been apart of various SF groups, lived in Japan and reads Chinese, has a graduate degree in biology and apparently is refering to Belgians he met in Belgium you pratt (no idea what a pratt is but ofcourse i'm just a 10 yr old airsoft player p-) ). I've probably missed some stuff like how he helped Pershing in 1911 kill 49 terrorists and some other stuff, but no one is perfect. woot Have i missed anything manta?

[Kriz]

well from my experience, not a point of fact, those Belgians that I have met, who are not "military people" support the AEL.

OMG dude you're even more retarded then your posts, I live in Belgium almost nobody voted for AEL and even less people love them. Most muslims don't even like them, so please stfu.

[StarvingStudent47]

There were people protesting in antwerp today against rascism organized by the jewish community and anti-rascism league because of the attack on the jew.

I don't totally understand this sentence. Are you saying:

1) People were protesting the attack. They thought the attack was racist and wrong.

or

2) People were protesting against the Jewish community, which they feel is racist and promoting racism, especially after this attack.

[Kriz]

There were people protesting in antwerp today against rascism organized by the jewish community and anti-rascism league because of the attack on the jew.

I don't totally understand this sentence. Are you saying:

1) People were protesting the attack. They thought the attack was racist and wrong.

or

2) People were protesting against the Jewish community, which they feel is racist and promoting racism, especially after this attack.

1st option ;)

[Tengu]

There were people protesting in antwerp today against rascism organized by the jewish community and anti-rascism league because of the attack on the jew.

I don't totally understand this sentence. Are you saying:

1) People were protesting the attack. They thought the attack was racist and wrong.

or

2) People were protesting against the Jewish community, which they feel is racist and promoting racism, especially after this attack.

1st option ;)indeed. Sry for my crappy english. There were also alot of important politicians there saying that these sick ****s will be brought to justice.

Very sad. My grandmother remembers nazi's kicking jews out of their home's during WW2 in that same city .

[tacticalmanta]

well from my experience, not a point of fact, those Belgians that I have met, who are not "military people" support the AEL.

OMG dude you're even more retarded then your posts, I live in Belgium almost nobody voted for AEL and even less people love them. Most muslims don't even like them, so please stfu.

So are not commenting on an experience I had. OK, I guess you were there, or perhaps you are severly retarded.

[tacticalmanta]

well from my experience, not a point of fact, those Belgians that I have met, who are not "military people" support the AEL.

Belgians you meet in Florida?

dont you know tacticalmanta is apparently in the coast guard, had been apart of various SF groups, lived in Japan and reads Chinese, has a graduate degree in biology and apparently is refering to Belgians he met in Belgium you pratt (no idea what a pratt is but ofcourse i'm just a 10 yr old airsoft player p-) ). I've probably missed some stuff like how he helped Pershing in 1911 kill 49 terrorists and some other stuff, but no one is perfect. woot Have i missed anything manta?

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[StarvingStudent47]

1st option ;)indeed. Sry for my crappy english. There were also alot of important politicians there saying that these sick f*** will be brought to justice.

Very sad. My grandmother remembers nazi's kicking jews out of their home's during WW2 in that same city .

No reason to apologize! I have a lot of trouble learning foreign languages. Thanks for the clarification :)

I'm glad to see the whole community was as outraged as I was.