Obama Bashing in Bavaria and Paris

[Macs.]

TURKEY AND THE EUROPEAN UNION

Obama Bashing in Bavaria and Paris

US President Barack Obama says Turkey's future is in the European Union. Not everyone agrees. Numerous politicians in Germany have gone on the attack, and even French President Sarkozy is unimpressed. Turkey's role at the NATO summit has soured the mood.

During his stay in Europe, everybody seemed eager to be President Barack Obama's friend. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi threw his arm around the US leader. French President Nicolas Sarkozy seemed to be on Obama's heels wherever he went during the G-20 meeting in London (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,617639,00.html), the NATO summit in Strasbourg and the EU get-together in Prague. Even Russian President Dmitry Medvedev seemed to be enjoying his proximity to the American superstar.

Now that Obama is in Turkey, however, some political camps -- particularly in Germany -- have discovered the political efficacy of Obama bashing. While in Ankara, Obama reiterated his support for Turkish membership in the European Union, a position he first voiced on Sunday in Prague. That doesn't sit well with some.

"Turkey is bound to Europe by more than bridges over the Bosporus," Obama told the Turkish parliament on Monday. "Centuries of shared history, culture and commerce bring you together. And Turkish membership would broaden and strengthen Europe's foundation once more."

It is a sentiment not universally shared in Europe. On Monday, a number of politicians, particularly in Germany, went on the offensive. "It is a meddling in the internal affairs of Europe," Bernd Posselt, a member of the European Parliament from Bavarian's conservative Christian Social Union (CSU), blustered in an interview with SPIEGEL ONLINE. "The EU is not Obama's plaything. ... He should accept Turkey as America's 51st state instead," he continued.

Markus Ferber, the CSU's lead candidate in European Parliament elections set for early June, echoed his party colleague. "There is no question that the US has a voice in NATO. But when it comes to membership in its own club, the EU decides by itself," he said. "We don't need any tutoring from abroad."

Party head Horst Seehofer said that Europe's "internal harmony" is dependent on "common cultural and spiritual roots." He went on to say that "Turkey, as self-proclaimed representative of the Muslim world, clearly doesn't fit in."

The reason for the intensity of the reaction from Bavaria is not difficult to pinpoint. The CSU has had a rough year (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,614103,00.html) and Seehofer, who only took over the party's reins last October, needs an electoral success ahead of general elections this autumn. June European elections seem the perfect opportunity, but currently, there is a real danger that his party could fail to clear the 5 percent hurdle necessary for representation in the European Parliament -- a debacle to be avoided at all costs. Obama's demand merely provides a convenient opportunity to produce headlines.

But the vexation at Obama's support for Turkish membership is real, particularly following Turkey's truculence at the NATO summit in Strasbourg. There, Ankara almost torpedoed attempts to name Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen as the next secretary general of the alliance because of the Muhammad caricatures published in a Danish newspaper in 2005. Turkey could only be budged from its position following concessions offered by Obama and European leaders during last-minute telephone diplomacy (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,617478,00.html).

Indeed, Sarkozy was quick to reject Obama's support for Turkish EU membership. Speaking after the US president said in Prague on Sunday that membership for Turkey would "ensure we continue to anchor Turkey firmly in Europe," Sarkozy said: "I have been working hand in hand with President Obama, but when it comes to the European Union it is up to member states … to decide."

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose own conservative Christian Democratic Union is likewise skeptical of Turkish membership -- preferring a "privileged partnership" for the country -- spoke of "differing opinions" when it came to Turkey's EU ambitions.

The Wall Street Journal quoted an unnamed diplomat familiar with the NATO back-and-forth as saying "more and more EU countries have doubts about Turkish accession. The mood at the table was grumpy."

Adding to the concern were media reports indicating that, in return for Turkey's support for Rasmussen, Ankara was promised that two sections of EU accession negotiations that had previously been frozen would be reopened. European Commissioner for Enlargement Olli Rehn has denied the reports, telling the Financial Times Deutschland that there is "no connection" between the NATO summit and Turkey EU accession talks.
Still, the CSU isn't buying it. "Rehn is a fanatic supporter of Turkish EU accession," Posselt told SPIEGEL ONLINE. "We as a parliament have to look into whether unfair business was made at the NATO summit."
The US has long been a supporter of Turkish membership in the EU.

Obama's predecessor George W. Bush likewise encouraged the accession of the predominantly Muslim country.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,617868,00.html

Team America: Worldpolice. :roll:

[Sufficient]

"Centuries of shared history, culture and commerce bring you together. And Turkish membership would broaden and strengthen Europe's foundation once more."

It's in the interest of the U.S. to have a weak EU. I can't think of any other context in which this makes sense. Centuries of shared history? More like centuries of killing each other (Ottoman Empire).

[tyovan]

Shared culture?? Döner Kebabs??

[LRPV]

[quote=Macs.;4041756

"US President Barack Obama says Turkey's future is in the European Union."

Team America: Worldpolice. :roll:[/quote]



Speaking of turkeys....:-( I hope this guy isn't going down the Bush path...ie 'we know what's best for you'.

[gustav]

It's in the interest of the U.S. to have a weak EU. I can't think of any other context in which this makes sense.

No its clearly not in the US' interest to have a weak EU. Even with all the quarrels and shoutings and dramas, Europe stays and will continue to be the closest ally the US can have.



Centuries of shared history? More like centuries of killing each other (Ottoman Empire)


Yeah, while the Europeans were picking flowers...p-)

[Russian_dude]

and US should just open it's borders with Mexico... except that Mexico is actually the same religion. Turkey is Asia and has no conection to Europe other then trying to conquer it.

[pacifist]

1234567890

[pmj]

Nothing against Turkey - but this country is as European as China. Their culture and mentality is totally different from any European country. By the way - has somebody, ANYBODY - Mr President?????, looked at the world-map recently? Turkey is still in Minor Asia ;) The European part doesn't count - it's a conquered piece of land and the main part is still in Asia.
Of course Mr. Obama wants Turkey in the EU, because Turkey wants to profit from our money (the current turkish government can't afford its spending spree much longer or they will go bankrupt) - and Obama wants Turkish support for his agenda in the region.

Again - nothing against Turkey. It's a proud country with a long history. But nobody in Europe wants them in the EU. And according to a recent survey by the BBC more than 50 % of the Turks and totally anti EU.

[muck]

That's Obama's way of saying "Thank you" to Gül and Erdogan for their u-turn in the general secretary dispute.

[4X4Driver]

Nothing against Turkey - but this country is as European as China. Their culture and mentality is totally different from any European country. By the way - has somebody, ANYBODY - Mr President?????, looked at the world-map recently? Turkey is still in Minor Asia ;) The European part doesn't count - it's a conquered piece of land and the main part is still in Asia.
Of course Mr. Obama wants Turkey in the EU, because Turkey wants to profit from our money (the current turkish government can't afford its spending spree much longer or they will go bankrupt) - and Obama wants Turkish support for his agenda in the region.

Again - nothing against Turkey. It's a proud country with a long history. But nobody in Europe wants them in the EU. And according to a recent survey by the BBC more than 50 % of the Turks and totally anti EU.

I often agree with anyone/everyone who are aginst the Turkey's EU membership and I agree with you too on that also..but I just could not allow you to insult my intelligence here..sorry.


By the way - has somebody, ANYBODY - Mr President?????, looked at the world-map recently?

Do YOU have any idea where the island of Cyprus is???:roll:

Again..nothing against the Europeans in general...just the "smart" ones that tics me off.

BTW..anti EU Turks are happen to be more than 50% ;)

Now y'all can carry on with "Turkey should not be a EU member" rants. More the better and it's a music to my ears. :)

[Ulytau]

@ pmj

First if we speaking about economical issue as i remember and as i watch from economical news Germany interest to turn back Mark.Also we seen about economical issue at last economical crisis which still continue.

I dont get a point when many Turks show reaction aganist EU things why some dudes ''Especially Olie Rehn,Joost Lagendijk,Claudia Roth(She seriously scaring me)'' singing democracy songs? Also as i remember one of em said Turks are war monger or something like that reason was we builded a dam which can show resistance aganist air strikes too rofl

More democracy examples?

I think especially Turks remember about Otopan ship when we said no to dismantling of this ship some dudes dare to show EU card..About ship she was carring tones of asbestos ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos ..

Also as i remember some dudes dare to show EU Card again before we choosing F-35 ''With Eurofighter''

Also i dont have anything aganist European countries too with some of em we have strong ties etc. but some politicians ''not only in EU same for the every countries'' acting really interesting.

For example normally political Turkiye and France looking like having problems but about law etc. as i notice especially French bureaucrats became nightmare of the terrorist ocalan and pkk members.

My personal idea Euroasian countries can set up an economical union and we seein this steps especially this countries going to use regional money at import&export etc.

[pmj]

@4X4Driver: Fair enough. :) However, this isn't about geography alone. history, culture etc. all play into this.

@Ulytau: Sorry, but I only got like half of what you wrote. Claudia Roth is indeed a truly scary example of a typical German leftist politician - also known as "Gutmensch". (the Germans will understand ;))

[Ulytau]

^^

Mate i mean some politicians always trying to use EU card with for their&business economical benefits..

[4X4Driver]

@4X4Driver: Fair enough. :) However, this isn't about geography alone. history, culture etc. all play into this.

No probs..it's the geography part that I wanted to draw your attention to... about the rest; I absolutelly could not care what you or your kind thinks as long as it keeps Turkey out of EU. Please, if you're old enough to vote, do your national duty and vote against Turkey's membership...if you're ever asked of course. ;)

[Aor]

The membership issue is a red flag for Turkish nationalists and the so called "deep state" that runs Turkey behind closed doors. Before it was made clear how much they would have to relinquish control due to the needed democratic reforms demanded by the E.U and the changes necessary among other things in the economy and the foreign policy they were for an E.U membership. After that however they turned an 180 and now perceive the E.U accession procedures as a threat to their establishment and even Turkey's security and national sovereignty. The funny part is that Obama is all for these reforms as stated in his speech in the Turkish parliament! And yet I haven't seen any remarks of that by the fans of the military establishment in Turkey. Sarcosy and the others have reasons to be against a Turkish membership, but they steer up nationalist and even racist tendencies in their countries undermining at the same time a process they voted for as E.U members. This wrecks havoc for the unions credibility, not to mention the damage it inflicts to possible democratisation efforts within Turkey. The whole process is already in the brink of collapse and Turkish nationalism and xenophobia is at it's peak. If the process fails the West could be facing a country in the complete grasp of nationalists and militarists with voting rights on NATO and a foothold in critical strategic areas. The reprecautions could be catastrophic.

[Arnie100]

You mean...not everbody's a fan of Obama!?

[Adux]

4x4 driver,

Reverse Psychology! Well Played Sir! Well Played!

[Albatross]

how is the messiah telling the EU what they need to do? Its like Bush lite.

[Moledet]

You mean...not everbody's a fan of Obama!?
Nope, here he's liked even less.

[Aor]

If the ultra nationalists weren't so mesmerised with the rhetoric alone and really dissected his speech they should be chewing their blood pressure pills. As to if Obama has any right to dictate E.U policy, he can't or at least he has a right if we Europeans give it to him and allow the Americans to interfere with our union. He may be saying he talks only as a friend, but that is highly unlikely. I never knew a politician that acts on emotion alone. The management of Turkey's european membership is clearly defined by the the accession procedures.

[sinophile]

It's in the interest of the U.S. to have a weak EU. I can't think of any other context in which this makes sense. Centuries of shared history? More like centuries of killing each other (Ottoman Empire).

Hmmm... the Ottoman Empire I know got along quite well with Germany and with a one notable exception in WWI with France and Italy as well.

But suit yourself... who needs a secular Turkey in the EU? Their low labor costs, hard-working people and secular tradition is nothing but a nuisance to a fortress Europe with such economic stalwarts as Greece, Spain, Italy and Latvia.

[4X4Driver]

The membership issue is a red flag for Turkish nationalists and the so called "deep state" that runs Turkey behind closed doors. Before it was made clear how much they would have to relinquish control due to the needed democratic reforms demanded by the E.U and the changes necessary among other things in the economy and the foreign policy they were for an E.U membership. After that however they turned an 180 and now perceive the E.U accession procedures as a threat to their establishment and even Turkey's security and national sovereignty. The funny part is that Obama is all for these reforms as stated in his speech in the Turkish parliament! And yet I haven't seen any remarks of that by the fans of the military establishment in Turkey. Sarcosy and the others have reasons to be against a Turkish membership, but they steer up nationalist and even racist tendencies in their countries undermining at the same time a process they voted for as E.U members. This wrecks havoc for the unions credibility, not to mention the damage it inflicts to possible democratisation efforts within Turkey. The whole process is already in the brink of collapse and Turkish nationalism and xenophobia is at it's peak. If the process fails the West could be facing a country in the complete grasp of nationalists and militarists with voting rights on NATO and a foothold in critical strategic areas. The reprecautions could be catastrophic.

Hmm..it really sounds like "evil neighbor from the east/boogieman" story to keep your attention distracted from your own gov'ts **** ups. :)

Don't waste your barincells on listening stories that they're feeding you for a purpose, instead use'em for understanding the facts.

The fact is; The EU lost it's crebility amongst the most Turks, when they stood (and still standing) behind the Islamist Erdogan and his gov't on the expense of secular Turkey..it's simple as that...;)

So, set your personally motivated conspiracy theories a side and focus on your own situation in your country.



4x4 driver,

Reverse Psychology! Well Played Sir! Well Played!

Nope...no need to get so complicated mate...it's pure anti EU feelings..nothing more...and I assume I have every right to have them.

[pmj]

The fact is; The EU lost it's crebility amongst the most Turks, when they stood (and still standing) behind the Islamist Erdogan and his gov't on the expense of secular Turkey..it's simple as that...;)


Here I agree with you. Ironically joining the EU would be bad news for a secular Turkey. To me it looks like the military is trying to come to terms with Erdogan and the AKP. Could it be that Atatürk's vision is in danger of falling apart?

[Laworkerbee]

and US should just open it's borders with Mexico... except that Mexico is actually the same religion. Turkey is Asia and has no conection to Europe other then trying to conquer it.

Too late, our borders are open wider than a whore legs in a train station.

[4X4Driver]

Here I agree with you. Ironically joining the EU would be bad news for a secular Turkey.

Correct..glad to hear we have agreement there.



To me it looks like the military is trying to come to terms with Erdogan and the AKP. Could it be that Atatürk's vision is in danger of falling apart?

No..I personally don't see it like that..but they're laying low for quite a some time now due to being blamed for AKP's so called "democratization" shortcommings. Now the people have been waking up lately.The local elections that was held 10 days ago became a confidence vote for the AKP and the results showed that they've lost quite a support. Their 47% popularity came down to 38% and theyre going to loose more until the next gen. elections in two years time. So, I think military sees this development also and they'll wait them out.

[G-AWZT]

America not STRONG?

[[ KOOSHAB ]]

"Turkey, as self-proclaimed representative of the Muslim world, clearly doesn't fit in."

Most retarded statement ever.

[budgie]

Sounds like Obama is trying to play matchmaker and be friends with everyone at the same time. It should be up to the EU to decide whether Turkey qualifies. IMO they have a long way to go.

[Merfeller]

It's in the interest of the U.S. to have a weak EU. I can't think of any other context in which this makes sense. Centuries of shared history? More like centuries of killing each other (Ottoman Empire).

I think you might be overanalyzing what he said. His words make sense to the extent that he is pandering to the audience to which he happens to be speaking at the moment, in this case Turks who desire EU membership. The guy wants to be admired.

[KVLG]

Sounds like Obama is trying to play matchmaker and be friends with everyone at the same time. It should be up to the EU to decide whether Turkey qualifies. IMO they have a long way to go.

True that. After all, the EU is a European organization. As for Obama trying to be friends with everyone at once, I think someone once said that if you try to be friends with everybody, you wind up being friends with nobody, or however that goes.

[Zalmoxes]

True that. After all, the EU is a European organization. As for Obama trying to be friends with everyone at once, I think someone once said that if you try to be friends with everybody, you wind up being friends with nobody, or however that goes.

Prez Obama does not know that and never will. He gave the Queen an Ipod for the love of God. He's got cretins telling him what to do and what to say.

[G-AWZT]

Sounds like Obama is trying to play matchmaker and be friends with everyone at the same time. It should be up to the EU to decide whether Turkey qualifies. IMO they have a long way to go.



It's a liberal trait. Lib politicians go out of their way to make themselves be loved at home and abroad at least in this country.
His bowing to the Saudi king was way out of line and the wrong move.
The jihadis despise the Saudi royals and know see Obama bowing to a royal cretin. As a result in the eyes of a jihadi, Obama and America really look like weaklings.

[benbach]

Shared culture?? Döner Kebabs??

all the worlds doener kebabs belong to me

man i love those things

[Aor]

Hmm..it really sounds like "evil neighbor from the east/boogieman" story to keep your attention distracted from your own gov'ts **** ups. :)

Don't waste your barincells on listening stories that they're feeding you for a purpose, instead use'em for understanding the facts.

The fact is; The EU lost it's crebility amongst the most Turks, when they stood (and still standing) behind the Islamist Erdogan and his gov't on the expense of secular Turkey..it's simple as that...;)

So, set your personally motivated conspiracy theories a side and focus on your own situation in your country.


The E.U doesn't give a rats ass who is in power in Turkey to continue the negotiations. The European commission negotiates with the Turkish government and not a political party or ideology. If another party was elected in stead of the AKP it would also have to go forward with the negotiations. Besides it was Turkey who applied for membership. It isn't as though Europe asked you to join. Yeah the reforms implemented under the pressure of the accession talks doom Turkey to becoming a mullah nation... Europe would love that! Are you for real?!!! Guess what? America also supports those changes . I guess they are also bend on seeing Turkey become a second Iran! From Obama's speech in the Turkish parliament
I also know that Turkey has pursued difficult political reforms not simply because it's good for EU membership, but because it's right for Turkey. In the last several years, you've abolished state security courts, you've expanded the right to counsel. You've reformed the penal code and strengthened laws that govern the freedom of the press and assembly. You've lifted bans on teaching and broadcasting Kurdish, and the world noted with respect the important signal sent through a new state Kurdish television station. These achievements have created new laws that must be implemented, and a momentum that should be sustained. For democracies cannot be static — they must move forward. Freedom of religion and expression lead to a strong and vibrant civil society that only strengthens the state, which is why steps like reopening Halki Seminary will send such an important signal inside Turkey and beyond. An enduring commitment to the rule of law is the only way to achieve the security that comes from justice for all people. Robust minority rights let societies benefit from the full measure of contributions from all citizens. P.S nice try derailing the thread and trying to flame.

[4X4Driver]

The E.U doesn't give a rats ass who is in power in Turkey to continue the negotiations. The European commission negotiates with the Turkish government and not a political party or ideology. If another party was elected in stead of the AKP it would also have to go forward with the negotiations. Besides it was Turkey who applied for membership. It isn't as though Europe asked you to join. Yeah the reforms implemented under the pressure of the accession talks doom Turkey to becoming a mullah nation... Europe would love that! Are you for real?!!! Guess what? America also supports those changes . I guess they are also bend on seeing Turkey become a second Iran! From Obama's speech in the Turkish parliament P.S nice try derailing the thread and trying to flame.

They should you know. Just a gain few things such as; getting Turkey to recognize the southern part of the Cyprus, solving the Agean issues to your gov't's favor and creating a Vatican style orthodox clearcy within Turkey is not worth it. All this being done on the expenses of the Turkey's secular system by supporting the Islamist Erdogan and his gov't..

You should stop derailing the OP topic by bringing in the conspiracy theories about your own issies that your gov'thas been feeding you to distract your attention away from their own short commings. This kind of paranoia is also costing the EU tax payers.

[Aor]

They should you know. Just a gain few things such as; getting Turkey to recognize the southern part of the Cyprus, solving the Agean issues to your gov't's favor and creating a Vatican style orthodox clearcy within Turkey is not worth it. All this being done on the expenses of the Turkey's secular system by supporting the Islamist Erdogan and his gov't..

You should stop derailing the OP topic by bringing in the conspiracy theories about your own issies that your gov'thas been feeding you to distract your attention away from their own short commings. This kind of paranoia is also costing the EU tax payers.

I must have pissed you off since good syntax and grammar is out the window in your post, but I will try to decipher your paranoia. First of all I never once mentioned Greece in this thread. But I guess there is a secret conspiracy involving the E.U, America and their Greek overlords to crush Turkey :cantbeli: .

Since when do the accession criteria and the democratisation demands supported by the West as a whole, E.U and the U.S, have anything to do with adopting a pro Greek stance in Turkey's foreign issues?

If you and your Grey Wolf brethren perceive this


For democracies cannot be static — they must move forward. Freedom of religion and expression lead to a strong and vibrant civil society that only strengthens the state, which is why steps like reopening Halki Seminary will send such an important signal inside Turkey and beyond. An enduring commitment to the rule of law is the only way to achieve the security that comes from justice for all people. Robust minority rights let societies benefit from the full measure of contributions from all citizens. as an effort to install a Vatican style orthodox clergy within Turkey, the you have past the borders of ultra right wing propaganda.

Now how the hell your can connect all this with the E.U and the U.S being against the secular character of Turkey is beyond the boundaries of reason.

:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash::bash:

[4X4Driver]

I must have pissed you off since good syntax and grammar is out the window in your post

Pissed me off?? you shouldn't give so much credit to your intelligence...english is my only third language, keep that in mind. ;)


Since when do the accession criteria and the democratisation demands supported by the West as a whole, E.U and the U.S, have anything to do with adopting a pro Greek stance in Turkey's foreign issues?

Since the EU and the US backed and stood behind the Islamist Erdogan and his gov't for the last six years. Can they be so naive to think that Islamist gov't with an agenda of bringing sharia to Turkey can "democratise" Turkey ? A simple question with a simple and obvious answer...but seems like your limited boundaries for reasonings will not allow you to see that. ;)

[Aor]

Pissed me off?? you shouldn't give so much credit to your intelligence...english is my only third language, keep that in mind. ;)


And yet for an educated person your ability to form coherent thoughts or not to fall for cheap nationalist right wing propaganda is severely limited

Since the EU and the US backed and stood behind the Islamist Erdogan and his gov't for the last six years. Can they be so naive to think that Islamist gov't with an agenda of bringing sharia to Turkey can "democratise" Turkey ? A simple question with a simple and obvious answer...but seems like your limited boundaries for reasonings will not allow you to see that. ;)

Those are conclusions fed to you by the powers that keep your society at a stranglehold and treat democracy as a threat to it's people. Funny that all 27 member states of the E.U and the U.S think otherwise. I guess they too are "enemies of Turkey" bound to destroy it.

Obama promotes Turkey's conversion to an Islamic state, as did Bush before him and the same goes for the european commission and the heads of state and governments of Austria , Belgium , Bulgaria , Cyprus , Czech Republic , Denmark , Estonia , Finland , France , Germany , Greece , Hungary , Ireland , Italy , Latvia , Lithuania , Luxembourg , Malta , the Netherlands , Poland , Portugal , Romania , Slovakia , Slovenia , Spain , Sweden , the United Kingdom and the U.S.A.

WOW, just WOW

[Ulytau]

@Aor just want to give some info;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

Its not about you and me not about simple people in the world but some people tried to use Green Generation issue aganist Soviet Union and you know about this quote i think;


Oh my God! I created a MONSTER

[4X4Driver]

And yet for an educated person your ability to form coherent thoughts or not to fall for cheap nationalist right wing propaganda is severely limited


Those are conclusions fed to you by the powers that keep your society at a stranglehold and treat democracy as a threat to it's people. Funny that all 27 member states of the E.U and the U.S think otherwise. I guess they too are "enemies of Turkey" bound to destroy it.

Obama promotes Turkey's conversion to an Islamic state, as did Bush before him and the same goes for the european commission and the heads of state and governments of Austria , Belgium , Bulgaria , Cyprus , Czech Republic , Denmark , Estonia , Finland , France , Germany , Greece , Hungary , Ireland , Italy , Latvia , Lithuania , Luxembourg , Malta , the Netherlands , Poland , Portugal , Romania , Slovakia , Slovenia , Spain , Sweden , the United Kingdom and the U.S.A.

WOW, just WOW

Yep..just a WOW for your limited comprehension capabilities.

Don't be selfish and plan on gaining only for your national interests on the expenses of the Turkey's secular system.

WE don't want to be a EU member. Leave us "Barbarians" alone..why the insist? ;)

Read!

Turkey's Dangerous Drift
Growing Illiberalism

Turkey's secular elites are increasingly concerned by the country's direction. They argue that the AKP is promoting a creeping Islamic agenda--one that is closer to Muslim Brotherhood fundamentalism than to the traditional Ottoman tolerant religious outlook.
In July 2008, the Constitutional Court, in a split decision, rejected an attempt by Turkey's chief prosecutor to ban the AKP. The prosecution accused the AKP of violating separation of mosque and state in public life, with the intention of leading secular Turkey down a path toward Shari'a law.
While the AKP has enjoyed popular support since it came to power, for the first time since 2002, it lost support, dropping from 47 percent to 39 percent in the March 29 local elections. While the global economic crisis is in part responsible for this decrease in support, the outcome of these elections is also explained by discontent with AKP policies and recognition that the party has strayed from its promises of a more liberal Turkey in the European Union.Prominent supporters of democracy are concerned that the right of dissent and the principle of government accountability are being eroded: The AKP is viewed as increasingly intolerant of opposing views.

3.Turkey's Foreign Policy Drift

Regarding foreign policy, there are important signs that Turkey is drifting away from the West. In 2006, Turkey became the first NATO member to host the leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashaal. Turkey also enthusiastically hosted Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, whose government has been accused of genocide. Turkey's geography explains its association with Iran but not with Hamas or Sudan; only Islamist solidarity and anti-Western sentiment can explain these ties.
Although Turkey has been trying to facilitate an Arab-Israeli rapprochement, it is losing its impartiality and, therefore, credibility. It is attempting to sponsor an Israeli-Palestinian industrial border zone and an Israeli-Palestinian hospital. It also sponsored an Israeli-Syrian proximity talks in Istanbul....

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154902


..and now go get involved in the more important issues for you :)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154863

[Aor]

Yep..just a WOW for your limited comprehension capabilities.

Don't be selfish and plan on gaining only for your national interests on the expenses of the Turkey's secular system.

WE don't want to be a EU member. Leave us "Barbarians" alone..why the insist? ;)

Read!

Turkey's Dangerous Drift
Growing Illiberalism

Turkey's secular elites are increasingly concerned by the country's direction. They argue that the AKP is promoting a creeping Islamic agenda--one that is closer to Muslim Brotherhood fundamentalism than to the traditional Ottoman tolerant religious outlook.
In July 2008, the Constitutional Court, in a split decision, rejected an attempt by Turkey's chief prosecutor to ban the AKP. The prosecution accused the AKP of violating separation of mosque and state in public life, with the intention of leading secular Turkey down a path toward Shari'a law.
While the AKP has enjoyed popular support since it came to power, for the first time since 2002, it lost support, dropping from 47 percent to 39 percent in the March 29 local elections. While the global economic crisis is in part responsible for this decrease in support, the outcome of these elections is also explained by discontent with AKP policies and recognition that the party has strayed from its promises of a more liberal Turkey in the European Union.Prominent supporters of democracy are concerned that the right of dissent and the principle of government accountability are being eroded: The AKP is viewed as increasingly intolerant of opposing views.

3.Turkey's Foreign Policy Drift

Regarding foreign policy, there are important signs that Turkey is drifting away from the West. In 2006, Turkey became the first NATO member to host the leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashaal. Turkey also enthusiastically hosted Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, whose government has been accused of genocide. Turkey's geography explains its association with Iran but not with Hamas or Sudan; only Islamist solidarity and anti-Western sentiment can explain these ties.
Although Turkey has been trying to facilitate an Arab-Israeli rapprochement, it is losing its impartiality and, therefore, credibility. It is attempting to sponsor an Israeli-Palestinian industrial border zone and an Israeli-Palestinian hospital. It also sponsored an Israeli-Syrian proximity talks in Istanbul....

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154902


..and now go get involved in the more important issues for you :)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154863

OHHHHH the Heritage Foundation! Nice neocon think tank with overly simplistic views. What's the matter google doesn't work ? I watch FOXnews and find it HILARIOUS


http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/71109/full-text-of-obama-39-s-speech-to-turkish-grand-national-parliament.html

Have you read it

Oh and by the way isn't part of the demands by right wing sympathisers in Turkey the withdrawal from NATO and a seclusion of the country?

Your constant derailment attempts are noted and reported.

Ulytau you surprise me pleasantly my friend. You go on a limb here. Respect.

[4X4Driver]

OHHHHH the Heritage Foundation! Nice neocon think tank with overly simplistic views. What's the matter google doesn't work ? I watch FOXnews and find it HILARIOUS

Ah..attacking the source now.. nothing else to say eh..? :)

Read and try to comprehend it...there are references to what the EU officials are saying too.



http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/71109/full-text-of-obama-39-s-speech-to-turkish-grand-national-parliament.html

Have you read it

I've listen to it live.


Oh and by the way isn't part of the demands by right wing sympathisers in Turkey the withdrawal from NATO and a seclusion of the country?

Actually not...traditionally it's the leftists who demands that..but, can we say the same thing about you and your nationalists trying to gain national interests on the expenses of Turkey's secular system?


Your constant derailment attempts are noted and reported.



So are you...for managing to turn the topic into "greek issues with Turkey thread".. once again.

[Aor]

Ah..attacking the source now.. nothing else to say eh..? :)


Institutions like the Heritage Foundation claim to be scientific and credible, but hardly a serious person would consider them as such.

Hey Jenna Jameson claims to be an actress, but most have the common sense to know her chances at an academy award are slim ;)


I've listen to it live.


Another proof that listening and comprehending are two completely different things.

Actually not...traditionally it's the leftists who demands that..but, can we say the same thing about you and your nationalists trying to gain national interests on the expenses of Turkey's secular system?

Scripta manem. Check posts of your buddies and never underestimate google.

I am not interested in indulging your nationalist fantasies or fitting your perceptions of the "enemy". If I wanted to harm Turkey I would join you into undermining any chances at your countries modernisation. Way to go buddy, you are your worse enemy.

[hsh2]

Hey Jenna Jameson claims to be an actress, but most have the common sense to know her chances at an academy award are slim ;)


LOL

Good onerofl

[4X4Driver]

Institutions like the Heritage Foundation claim to be scientific and credible, but hardly a serious person would consider them as such.

Could the disagreement with the analysis be due to your support for the Islamist gov't in Turkey for your own nationalistic interests? ;)


Another proof that listening and comprehending are two completely different things.

Exactly...thanks for admitting that you didn't even read the article..just read the source and attacked it.



I am not interested in indulging your nationalist fantasies or fitting your perceptions of the "enemy". If I wanted to harm Turkey I would join you into undermining any chances at your countries modernisation. Way to go buddy, you are your worse enemy.

A Greek wants my country's benefit by supporting an Islamist gov't....hmm. :roll:

You know the saying; If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I would call it a duck. ;)

[daily666]

And who gave Obama to decide what's good for EU and Turkey? Because I think bringing Turkey into EU would be bad for both parties, especially for Turkey itself. The Islamists would use the EU-sponsored broadening of religious freedoms and use it against the state as we know it, than it's Kemalism gone bust. And we all wouldn't like to see that, believe me.