Obama Planning Immigration Reform

[tyovan]

While acknowledging that the recession makes the political battle more difficult, President Obama plans to begin addressing the country’s immigration system this year, including looking for a path for illegal immigrants to become legal, a senior administration official said on Wednesday.

Mr. Obama will frame the new effort — likely to rouse passions on all sides of the highly divisive issue — as “policy reform that controls immigration and makes it an orderly system,” said the official, Cecilia Muñoz, deputy assistant to the president and director of intergovernmental affairs in the White House.

Mr. Obama plans to speak publicly about the issue in May, administration officials said, and over the summer he will convene working groups, including lawmakers from both parties and a range of immigration groups, to begin discussing possible legislation for as early as this fall.

Some White House officials said that immigration would not take precedence over the health care and energy proposals that Mr. Obama has identified as priorities. But the timetable is consistent with pledges Mr. Obama made to Hispanic groups in last year’s campaign.

He said then that comprehensive immigration legislation, including a plan to make legal status possible for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, would be a priority in his first year in office. Latino voters turned out strongly for Mr. Obama in the election.

“He intends to start the debate this year,” Ms. Muñoz said.

Polarizing issue?
But with the economy seriously ailing, advocates on different sides of the debate said that immigration could become a polarizing issue for Mr. Obama in a year when he has many other major battles to fight.

Opponents, mainly Republicans, say they will seek to mobilize popular outrage against any effort to legalize unauthorized immigrant workers while so many Americans are out of jobs.

Democratic legislative aides said that opening a full-fledged debate this year on immigration, particularly with health care as a looming priority, could weigh down the president’s domestic agenda.

Debate is still under way among administration officials about the precise timing and strategy. For example, it is unclear who will take up the Obama initiative in Congress.

No serious legislative talks on the issue are expected until after some of Mr. Obama’s other priorities have been debated, Congressional aides said.

Just last month, Mr. Obama openly recognized that immigration is a potential minefield.

"I know this is an emotional issue; I know it’s a controversial issue,” he told an audience at a town meeting on March 18 in Costa Mesa, Calif. “I know that the people get real riled up politically about this."

But, he said, immigrants who are long-time residents but lack legal status “have to have some mechanism over time to get out of the shadows.”

The White House is calculating that public support for fixing the immigration system, which is widely acknowledged to be broken, will outweigh opposition from voters who argue that immigrants take jobs from Americans. A groundswell among voters opposed to legal status for illegal immigrants led to the defeat in 2007 of a bipartisan immigration bill that was strongly supported by President George W. Bush.

Administration officials said that Mr. Obama’s plan would not add new workers to the American work force, but that it would recognize millions of illegal immigrants who have already been working here. Despite the deep recession, there is no evidence of any wholesale exodus of illegal immigrant workers, independent studies of census data show.

Opponents of legalization legislation were incredulous at the idea that Mr. Obama would take on immigration when economic pain for Americans is so widespread.

“It just doesn’t seem rational that any political leader would say, let’s give millions of foreign workers permanent access to U.S. jobs when we have millions of Americans looking for jobs,” said Roy Beck, executive director of NumbersUSA, a group that favors reduced immigration. Mr. Beck predicted that Mr. Obama would face “an explosion” if he proceeded this year.

“It’s going to be, ‘You’re letting them keep that job, when I could have that job,’ ” he said.

In broad outlines, officials said, the Obama administration favors legislation that would bring illegal immigrants into the legal system by recognizing that they violated the law, and imposing fines and other penalties to fit the offense. The legislation would seek to prevent future illegal immigration by strengthening border enforcement and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, while creating a national system for verifying the legal immigration status of new workers.

But administration officials emphasized that many details remained to be debated.

'Politically disastrous'
Opponents of a legalization effort said that if the Obama administration maintained the enforcement pressure initiated by Mr. Bush, the recession would force many illegal immigrants to return home. Dan Stein, the president of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, said it would be “politically disastrous” for Mr. Obama to begin an immigration initiative at this time.

Anticipating opposition, Mr. Obama has sought to shift some of the political burden to advocates for immigrants, by encouraging them to build support among voters for when his proposal goes to Congress.

That is why Representative Luis V. Gutierrez, a Democrat from Mr. Obama’s hometown, Chicago, has been on the road most weekends since last December, traveling far outside his district to meetings in Hispanic churches, hoping to generate something like a civil rights movement in favor of broad immigration legislation.

Mr. Gutierrez was in Philadelphia on Saturday at the Iglesia Internacional, a big Hispanic evangelical church in a former warehouse, the 17th meeting in a tour that has included cities as far flung as Providence, R.I.; Atlanta; Miami; and San Francisco. Greeted with cheers and amens by a full house of about 350 people, Mr. Gutierrez, shifting fluidly between Spanish and English, called for immigration policies to preserve family unity, the strategic theme of his campaign.

Delays and setbacks
At each meeting, speakers from the community, mainly citizens, tell stories of loved ones who were deported or of delays and setbacks in the immigration system. Illegal immigrants have not been invited to speak.

Mr. Gutierrez’s meetings have all been held in churches, both evangelical and Roman Catholic, with clergy members from various denominations, including in several places Muslim imams. At one meeting in Chicago, Cardinal Francis George, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, officiated.

One speaker on Saturday, Jill Flores, said that her husband, Felix, an immigrant from Mexico who crossed the border illegally, had applied for legal status five years ago but had not been able to gain it even though she is an American citizen, as are their two children. Now, Ms. Flores said, she fears that her husband will have to leave for Mexico and will not be permitted to return for many years.

In an interview, Mr. Gutierrez rejected the idea that the timing is bad for an immigration debate. “There is never a wrong time for us,” he said. “Families are being divided and destroyed, and they need help now.”

Jeff Zeleny contributed reporting.

This story, "Obama to Push Immigration Bill Despite the Risks", originally appeared in The New York Times.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30125477/

My wife followed the rules and came here legally. I'm sick and tired of people wanting to grant legal residency to millions of people who didn't play by the rules, especially when we're in such economic turmoil..

What we need is immigration reform to make it easier for skilled migrants to come here, not handing out green cards to a bunch of unassimilated illegal aliens..

[MaverickCowboy]

My wife followed the rules and came here legally. I'm sick and tired of people wanting to grant legal residency to millions of people who didn't play by the rules, especially when we're in such economic turmoil..

What we need is immigration reform to make it easier for skilled migrants to come here, not handing out green cards to a bunch of unassimilated illegal aliens..

I agree. this is a load of bull****.

[hsh2]

My wife followed the rules and came here legally. I'm sick and tired of people wanting to grant legal residency to millions of people who didn't play by the rules, especially when we're in such economic turmoil..

What we need is immigration reform to make it easier for skilled migrants to come here, not handing out green cards to a bunch of unassimilated illegal aliens..

x2

123122353426234535

[Burntrubber87]

Record unemployment numbers..but lets let in 12 million new immigrants..one word comes to mind..why? to make Mexico happy?

[millertime]

Great, now even with economic turmoil, word of this will cause illegals to scramble across the border in record numbers.

We need to get our economic troubles sorted out before we flood the marked with even more cheap labor.

This almost proves that the "messiah" is out to destroy America, rather than save it as he promised in the election.

[Panchito12]

My wife followed the rules and came here legally. I'm sick and tired of people wanting to grant legal residency to millions of people who didn't play by the rules, especially when we're in such economic turmoil..

What we need is immigration reform to make it easier for skilled migrants to come here, not handing out green cards to a bunch of unassimilated illegal aliens..


Ditto with my wife. She played by the rules and came here completely legally, not under the fence, at night, running away from patrols.

I must take exception to the last sentence. We need to allow skilled immigrants to come in, ONLY after no single American can be found to do the job.

[MaverickCowboy]

Theres too many of them here. i want them out.
My last car accident. the guy didnt have id. a license, incsurance. anything.
id guesstimate 35% of people here dont have licenses.
Almost all of crime is committed by them here.
no one speaks English here.
They cant drive.
They wont learn the language.
i have to speak Spanish at all times in town.
Even the police and rescue speak mostly Spanish.
everyones NEO columbian, NEO cuban, NEO Mexican which is worse than whites hating blacks because they'll actually KILL eachother and their entire families.
My mayor is a pro-communist Cuban and wants to ban gun ownership, shops, and free speech altogether.-besically. hes pro castro, but left the Castro regime because hes a hypocritical ****.

Seriously. **** illegals.
Unless they learn the language and actually contribute to society and learn how to drive legally. they can get the **** out of my country until they obey laws .

[brainplay]

I've got mixed views on this.

On one hand there are a number of enforcement issues and initiatives here that I like. If he actually puts them into place and maintains them for the entire duration I'll give him some major kudos. However, tough talk goes weak once the political capital is gained for the politicians (border fence anyone) so that makes me skeptical.

On the other hand the citizenship issue kinda steams my hide. I can understand a guest worker program that can be monitored and maintained. Something that the Mexicans will compete for in Mexico much like highly skilled immigrants have to compete for H-1b's. But granting citizenship to many who have no interest in becoming citizens for more than a few years and have no interest in integrating is a huge mistake. Don't penalize the people who really do want to become citizens and play by the rules. Those guys have it hard enough as is.

And for gods sake, stop with the waaa waaa families being divided stories. One parent made the choice to screw up and come illegally. And one parent is making the choice to stay in the US while the other has to go back to their native country. They've made their choices and now they're reaping the rewards/consequences. That old "have their cake and eat it too" phrase keeps reoccuring.

[Dragunov]

Man, that is useless, nobody wants to go live in the US with the economy being so ****ed. There are no jobs.

[Chulo]

Man, that is useless, nobody wants to go live in the US with the economy being so ****ed. There are no jobs.tell that to the 10 to 12 MILLION ILLEGAL Mexicans here, it would be nice if they left.

[wildcat]

I heard this on the news, hmmm, if he get this reform, I cannot see the republicans every taking office again, it will end up bolstering the democrats ranks with more voters.

Also rewarding criminals, this is not immigration reform, seeing they are not legal, and are criminal by law. Immigration reform is make policy for legal immigration not illegal. I guess I will email my congressman.

[Chulo]

I heard this on the news, hmmm, if he get this reform, I cannot see the republicans every taking office again, it will end up bolstering the democrats ranks with more voters.

Also rewarding criminals, this is not immigration reform, seeing they are not legal, and are criminal by law. Immigration reform is make policy for legal immigration not illegal. I guess I will email my congressman.
You mean voters "bought" by giving them citizenship

[wildcat]

You mean voters "bought" by giving them citizenship
yes, and all there family member they will end up sponsoring to come into the country. I see we are heading to a one party system. Repubs will still hold seats, but not never enough.

[Chulo]

yes, and all there family member they will end up sponsoring to come into the country. I see we are heading to a one party system. Repubs will still hold seats, but not never enough.
eh, you think they would bother going through the system to sponsor someone? They would just send back money and sneak them over the border and tell them to hold out for another citizenship handout for criminals

[ren0312]

Viewed from another perspective, policies from 1st world countries that encourage the best and the brightest from 3rd world countries to immigrate to 1st world countries are leading to a very serious braiin drain in 3rd world countries, this policy is oppurtunistic at best, parasitic at worst, usually the only benefit that 3rd world countries recieve from those people who emigrated are remittances, otherwise if those emigrants do not send home those remittances and instead spend their wages in their host countries, then the 3rd world countries do not get any benefits from those emigrants, and then it truly turns into a zero sum game between 1st world countries and 3rd world countries, which in many cases are in dire need of those very same people that the 1st world is poaching.

[wildcat]

Viewed from another perspective, policies from 1st world countries that encourage the best and the brightest from 3rd world countries to immigrate to 1st world countries are leading to a very serious braiin drain in 3rd world countries, this policy is oppurtunistic at best, parasitic or beggar-thy-neighbor at worst, usually the only benefit that 3rd world countries recieve from those people who emigrated are remittances, otherwise if those emigrants do not send home those remittances and instead spend their wages in their host countries, then the 3rd world countries do not get any benefits from those emigrants, and then it truly turns into a zero sum game between 1st world countries and 3rd world countries, which in many cases are in dire need of those very same people that the 1st world is poaching.
so what you saying is down let any immigration anyone from 3rd world countries?

[ren0312]

so what you saying is down let any immigration anyone from 3rd world countries?

What I am saying is that Western policies that encourage immigration of talented immigrants usually lead to a brain drain in the countries which need them, so as I said this is an example of a zero sum game.

[wildcat]

What I am saying is that Western policies that encourage immigration of talented immigrants usually lead to a brain drain in the countries which need them, so as I said this is an example of a zero sum game.
This is not always true, for example lots of Indians came to the US in the tech industry, many return back to Indian and start companies etc in India, I worked with many that came to the US work for 4-5 years then returned. this is one reason why India has such an advance tech sector. They also invested in there education system.

[ren0312]

This is not always true, for example lots of Indians came to the US in the tech industry, many return back to Indian and start companies etc in India, I worked with many that came to the US work for 4-5 years then returned. this is one reason why India has such an advance tech sector. They also invested in there education system.

Is that an exception or a rule? In my experience most skilled immigrants that go to the US tend to stay there, and view it as the 1st step to getting a green card.

[Chulo]

Viewed from another perspective, policies from 1st world countries that encourage the best and the brightest from 3rd world countries to immigrate to 1st world countries are leading to a very serious braiin drain in 3rd world countries, this policy is oppurtunistic at best, parasitic at worst, usually the only benefit that 3rd world countries recieve from those people who emigrated are remittances, otherwise if those emigrants do not send home those remittances and instead spend their wages in their host countries, then the 3rd world countries do not get any benefits from those emigrants, and then it truly turns into a zero sum game between 1st world countries and 3rd world countries, which in many cases are in dire need of those very same people that the 1st world is poaching.I dont care about the issues. The question is: What do you do with people that break the law? Why should people that have played by the rules, paid thousands of dollars and waited many years (some even for over 10 years) to do something legally, and have some one who crosses the border illgeally, takes a job illegally, doesnt pay taxes, and breaks half a dozen other laws just to say in the county get more rights and privlages?

[Mu-Meson]

Well, I guess Obama could be hoping to get 12 million new democrat voters. Or maybe he has decided he doesn't want a second term.

[Airgun_Hunter]

tell that to the 10 to 12 MILLION ILLEGAL Mexicans here, it would be nice if they left.


You sure there's 12million MEXICANS?

Source please.... :bash:

[Airgun_Hunter]

I must take exception to the last sentence. We need to allow skilled immigrants to come in, ONLY after no single American can be found to do the job.

That Seems fair...

Too bad it isn't applied in Sports where a LOT of talent comes from overseas and gets immediate permission to play professional sports in the U.S.A.

The U.S.A. was founded as a country of Immigrants, and WILL ALWAYS BE.

The price to pay for being the "greatest nation on earth". p-)

Time will tell I guess.

Have a great weekend guys. Mine will suck as I'll work all weekend :roll:

[Chulo]

You sure there's 12million MEXICANS?

Source please.... :bash:
According to Pew Research Center Mexicans make up about 60% of the illegal population. With the illegal population anywhere from 8 to 20 Million, do the math.
Bear Sterns did a research http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf on remittances. They conclude that the number of illegal aliens in the United States may well be twice the official number put out by the U.S. Census of 9 million and may be 20 million people or higher

so save your head bashing for someone else.


That Seems fair...

Too bad it isn't applied in Sports where a LOT of talent comes from overseas and gets immediate permission to play professional sports in the U.S.A.

The U.S.A. was founded as a country of Immigrants, and WILL ALWAYS BE.

The price to pay for being the "greatest nation on earth". p-)

Time will tell I guess.

Have a great weekend guys. Mine will suck as I'll work all weekend :roll:

WTF.. dont you understand the difference between ILLEGAL and LEGAL? No one has an issue with immigration. Read the report and what we have been saying. Its the ILLEGAL immigrants that are the issue.

[SBL]

Ditto with my wife. She played by the rules and came here completely legally, not under the fence, at night, running away from patrols.


Russian or Fillipino?

[Airgun_Hunter]

According to Pew Research Center Mexicans make up about 60% of the illegal population. With the illegal population anywhere from 8 to 20 Million, do the math.
Bear Sterns did a research http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf on remittances. They conclude that the number of illegal aliens in the United States may well be twice the official number put out by the U.S. Census of 9 million and may be 20 million people or higher

so save your head bashing for someone else.



WTF.. dont you understand the difference between ILLEGAL and LEGAL? No one has an issue with immigration. Read the report and what we have been saying. Its the ILLEGAL immigrants that are the issue.

WTF!!!

Those replies I made were to two different matters, so don't combine them.

One was implying the talent in sports that immigrates LEGALLY, just as athletes.

The other about the someone stating that there's 12 million MEXICANS.

I thought Even you can see the difference in those two replies I made, but I guessed wrong.

[Chulo]

WTF!!!

Those replies I made were to two different matters, so don't combine them.

One was implying the talent in sports that immigrates LEGALLY, just as athletes.

The other about the someone stating that there's 12 million MEXICANS.

I thought Even you can see the difference in those two replies I made, but I guessed wrong.
I guess its hard for you to figure out quotes and embedded quotes. So i will answer it in two different replies.

NUMBER 1 : Your request for sources. As stated in your post as a question to my post.

tell that to the 10 to 12 MILLION ILLEGAL Mexicans here, it would be nice if they left.You sure there's 12million MEXICANS?

Source please.... :bash:

See i even quoted the whole thing for you.
My reply was that.
According to Pew Research Center Mexicans make up about 60% of the illegal population. With the illegal population anywhere from 8 to 20 Million, do the math.
Bear Sterns did a research http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal...nderground.pdf (http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf) on remittances. They conclude that the number of illegal aliens in the United States may well be twice the official number put out by the U.S. Census of 9 million and may be 20 million people or higher

if there were 20 Million immigrants as some research shows, then 60% of 20 happens to be about 12 Million Illegal Mexicans.

[Chulo]

And then to make it easy for you to understand. your second post said
That Seems fair...

The U.S.A. was founded as a country of Immigrants, and WILL ALWAYS BE.

The price to pay for being the "greatest nation on earth". p-)

Time will tell I guess.

Have a great weekend guys. Mine will suck as I'll work all weekend :roll:

and i say in reply to that: No one has an issue with immigration, its what to do with the ILLEGAL immigrants that is the question.


There. Did that make it easier for you to understand?

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Hey, I voted for the other guy, though I'm not sure how different his position on immigration would have been.

There's some reason to think that Napolitano will be dealing with illegal immigration by going after employers; I don't like it.

Employers May Face More Immigration Scrutiny (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154660)

[Hot Lips]

We made laws that give citizenship to children born here... so some illegals come by land, sea, or air to hurry up and squeeze out a baby so they can whine they should be able to stay because their child is an citizen and it would be wrong :roll: to divide their family.

Their children in turn believe that immigration laws are OK to violate (because their parents did it) and likely don't see anything wrong with turning a blind eye to supporting, harboring, or hiring illegals that come to this country.

We gave former illegals a path to citizenship before rather than deal with the problem. They in turn see breaking the law as an opportunity for those they left behind and likely don't see anything wrong with turning a blind eye to supporting, harboring, or hiring illegals that come to this country.

We basically reward them for breaking our laws and therefore they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing.

If they can break laws to cross the border, heck, why not break a few other inconvenient laws along the way to get false ID, a bank account, a job, get kids in school, etc? After all no one is going to hold them responsible and if anyone dares to illegals can pretend to be victims (of their own design) or cry racism or nationalism as a distraction.

American's are facing more and more layoffs. What happens when 12 million illegals are made legal and they want to start openly demanding higher wages/benefits, healthcare, etc.

Honestly, what are we getting in return for all they already steal from America? The taxes that are collected from some (because it's automated by the employer, not because they willingly pay) hardly make ups for the impact on Americas.

If we give 12 million illegals citizenship --- what's going to stop them from wanting to bring more family and friends up here illegally for the next round of handouts? They didn't see anything wrong with it before. They don't see anything wrong with it now. I doubt they'll see anything wrong with it going forward. Because there are no real consequences for breaking our laws.

If a citizen escapes from prison and avoids capture for xx years, should they get a free pass? We're giving foreign criminals a waiver, why not our own citizens?

If an illegals gets in-state college tuition rates, why not an out-of-state citizen?

Then again if 12 million illegals, for the sake of argument, were 6 million couples that had 2.2 children each we'll have an additional 13.2 million "citizens" before too long anyway and eventually they'll all just start voting all our laws off the books anyway.

What would future citizens have to learn from this? Breed and Break the Law. Eventually you get your way by sheer numbers.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

We made laws that give citizenship to children born here... so some illegals come by land, sea, or air to hurry up and squeeze out a baby so they can whine they should be able to stay because their child is an citizen and it would be wrong :roll: to divide their family.
Quite right, ma'am.

My opinion, these laws need to be changed or repealed. Does any other country have an immigration policy like this?

Maybe it made sense when we were a young country, with a lot of territory to be settled, but not now.

[sct1886]

My wife followed the rules and came here legally. I'm sick and tired of people wanting to grant legal residency to millions of people who didn't play by the rules, especially when we're in such economic turmoil..

What we need is immigration reform to make it easier for skilled migrants to come here, not handing out green cards to a bunch of unassimilated illegal aliens..

You are so right. My wife came here legally and has worked hard to get ahead and ASSIMILATE. Our government has miserably failed in their primary duty of protecting our borders. The government for too many years has been more interested in lining their pockets and watering down the voting base with useful idiots. Immigrants are either an asset or a detriment to society. I personally feel we have enough fools and criminals. No more import models are needed.


The following Youtube video quantifies the issue and gives a realistic perspective of our future:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgz6ZCqhtg

[Hot Lips]

Quite right, ma'am.

My opinion, these laws need to be changed or repealed. Does any other country have an immigration policy like this?

Maybe it made sense when we were a young country, with a lot of territory to be settled, but not now.

We have laws for our citizens that foster dishonest or destructive behavior as well and they all need to be re-evaluated. One of my pet peeves was giving people that can't afford kids and collect assistance more money each time they reproduce. I think the checks should go down, not up. Otherwise you teach people to be irresponsible.

Reproduction may be a natural "right", but it should be my right not to have to support the irresponsibility of others.

I don't think eliminating our laws is the solution, but rather fine tuning them to yield beneficial results... for our citizens first and foremost.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

We have laws for our citizens that foster dishonest or destructive behavior as well and they all need to be re-evaluated.
Unfortunately, it's only the middle class that protesting the current state of affairs.


One of my pet peeves was giving people that can't afford kids and collect assistance more money each time they reproduce. I think the checks should go down, not up. Otherwise you teach people to be irresponsible.

Reproduction may be a natural "right", but it should be my right not to have to support the irresponsibility of others.
Agreed, I don't think the government should be providing an incentive for reproduction.

[budgie]

tell that to the 10 to 12 MILLION ILLEGAL Mexicans here, it would be nice if they left.


Maybe you could start stalking them with geezah till they get the message...

[Hot Lips]

If by stalking you mean not turning a blind eye to it and pointing LE in the right direction, I wish more people would.

[Andromeda]

Quite right, ma'am.

My opinion, these laws need to be changed or repealed. Does any other country have an immigration policy like this?

Maybe it made sense when we were a young country, with a lot of territory to be settled, but not now.

Not just that, once you become a citizen it also gives you the right to request to bring even more of your family over. My friend just told me about this since we had a similar discussion. Anyways that's also what they should consider changing. I'll try to find the source if your interested.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Not just that, once you become a citizen it also gives you the right to request to bring even more of your family over. My friend just told me about this since we had a similar discussion. Anyways that's also what they should consider changing. I'll try to find the source if your interested.

Sure, please post.

[Nuclear_Warrior]

I actually have mixed feelings about this, if they do this they will know what kind of people are actually in the states I also think that they shouldn't give it to all of them, first of all they should check if those people have a criminal history in their country of origin and then investigate if they have any here.

Another thing is that I don't understand is that Cubans here have more privileges than Americans, how's that even possible? US gives them everything yet all I hear of them is how much they dislike this country. Here in south Florida is better to be Cuban than anything else, f^ck that!

[Chulo]

I actually have mixed feelings about this, if they do this they will know what kind of people are actually in the states I also think that they shouldn't give it to all of them, first of all they should check if those people have a criminal history in their country of origin and then investigate if they have any here.

Another thing is that I don't understand is that Cubans here have more privileges than Americans, how's that even possible? US gives them everything yet all I hear of them is how much they dislike this country. Here in south Florida is better to be Cuban than anything else, f^ck that!
Humm.. if they cross the border illegally, dont register, get fake paperwork, work illegally, dont pay taxes, and drive illegally, dont you think they already have a criminal record?

Cubans in Florida, Mexicans in other states. Dont you remember last year when they "striked" and showed the might of the illegals? Saying that Texas is a part of Mexico, and they came first and is not part of America?

[Nuclear_Warrior]

What I meant by Criminal record was in the sense of murder/stealing and so on in their country of origin or here in the states. But yeah, I guess what you said also applies.

[CPL Trevoga]

My take on this is that influx of illegals is keeping the wages depressed, but sure helps the bottom line of very wealthy few individuals. America was founded because of a business conflict. Some wealthy guys did not want to pay taxes, so they hired an army to fight the British. Slavery, same thing. Working white people are made to feel guilty today, because of few wealthy individuals who wanted cheap labor hundreds of years ago.

Let me aks u this, why are you fighting against the foundation of this country? Don't fight the man, just stop complaining and be happy that our masters are not importing Ayarabs.

[Chulo]

My take on this is that influx of illegals is keeping the wages depressed, but sure helps the bottom line of very wealthy few individuals. America was founded because of a business conflict. Some wealthy guys did not want to pay taxes, so they hired an army to fight the British. Slavery, same thing. Working white people are made to feel guilty today, because of few wealthy individuals who wanted cheap labor hundreds of years ago.

Let me aks u this, why are you fighting against the foundation of this country? Don't fight the man, just stop complaining and be happy that our masters are not importing Ayarabs.
So its the rich guys fault? Did you know that the majority of companies that hire illegals are small to middle size businesses? The large companies run by the "rich" guy doesnt hire as many. Do you see more illegals working for IBM and Microsoft or the construction firm down the street?

Im starting to get tired of this "wealth envy" slant on every issue we face today. No water? rich guys fault, too many illegals, rich guys fault, forgot to pay your credit card off and now faced with a big fine? Rich guys fault

[budgie]

Humm.. if they cross the border illegally, dont register, get fake paperwork, work illegally, dont pay taxes, and drive illegally, dont you think they already have a criminal record?



Kind of like when the Japanese justice ministry releases it's annula report of 'crimes by foreigners'. They report every single offence in the lineup to make it sound like people are on a massive spree, when if examined closely, only about 10% are actual crimes. The vast majority arre visa offences which, duuuh, only a foreigner could possibly commit.

[Chulo]

Kind of like when the Japanese justice ministry releases it's annula report of 'crimes by foreigners'. They report every single offence in the lineup to make it sound like people are on a massive spree, when if examined closely, only about 10% are actual crimes. The vast majority arre visa offences which, duuuh, only a foreigner could possibly commit.

So you saying crossing the border illegally, or driving without a license or getting fake documents or paying taxes are not actual crimes.

[CPL Trevoga]

So its the rich guys fault? Did you know that the majority of companies that hire illegals are small to middle size businesses? The large companies run by the "rich" guy doesnt hire as many. Do you see more illegals working for IBM and Microsoft or the construction firm down the street?

Im starting to get tired of this "wealth envy" slant on every issue we face today. No water? rich guys fault, too many illegals, rich guys fault, forgot to pay your credit card off and now faced with a big fine? Rich guys fault

I hate to disappoint you buddy, but people with extreme wealth run this country. The country business model is to exploit the working people. That's why illegal immigration will continue, because it's suits the needs of the ruling class. That's how it is in my view, economics tramps everything else.

[budgie]

So you saying crossing the border illegally, or driving without a license or getting fake documents or paying taxes are not actual crimes.



I'm saying I don't consider them serious crimes. Most illegal immigrants are just trying to feed their families. Next time make any post with 'you' in it a question.

[Chulo]

I hate to disappoint you buddy, but people with extreme wealth run this country. The country business model is to exploit the working people. That's why illegal immigration will continue, because it's suits the needs of the ruling class. That's how it is in my view, economics tramps everything else.
Like i said, who do you think hires most of the illegal labor? Exxon Mobil or the fruit farm and Mexican restaurant?

The country business model is to exploit the working people. tell me one system that does not use the working people? Atleast in capitalism you can work your way up, in communism and socialism the people are just parts of the system, a cog in the wheel with no real hope of moving up

[Hot Lips]

I'm saying I don't consider them serious crimes. Most illegal immigrants are just trying to feed their families. Next time make any post with 'you' in it a question.

The disingenuous pretense of most criminals to justify not following the laws that others in the same situation somehow manage to follow.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

9k posts for HL

[Hot Lips]

So its the rich guys fault? Did you know that the majority of companies that hire illegals are small to middle size businesses? The large companies run by the "rich" guy doesnt hire as many. Do you see more illegals working for IBM and Microsoft or the construction firm down the street?

Im starting to get tired of this "wealth envy" slant on every issue we face today. No water? rich guys fault, too many illegals, rich guys fault, forgot to pay your credit card off and now faced with a big fine? Rich guys fault

Sure they are not solely to blame, but money is power and influence.

Do politicians care about gaining illegal hispanic voters, perhaps because votes equate to the power to influence the ability to accumulate more wealth?

Do the wealthy support policitians that would make the path to citizenship easier, perhaps because it might mean lower wages and standards for those in their employ thereby increasing top level profits?

Have corporations shifted to investing money in providing full time bi-lingual services (which has resulted some workers losing jobs) to a population that should speak English since that's the national language, perhaps to make doing business with illegals easier for profit.

Why do you think Bank of America and others were trying to eliminate some of the paperwork, etc neccessary to open accounts? So it would be easier to do business with illegals for profit.

You think Wells Fargo and others don't profit on pay day when it's time to cash checks and wire funds back "home"?

[MaverickCowboy]

No. all of you are wrong. close the border.

[Pigdog]

Originally Posted by chulo_allen http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4048623#post4048623)
So you saying crossing the border illegally, or driving without a license or getting fake documents or paying taxes are not actual crimes.



I'm saying I don't consider them serious crimes. Most illegal immigrants are just trying to feed their families. Next time make any post with 'you' in it a question.

Most of us don't get to choose which laws we want to follow despite our opinions of them and the punishments they carry. If we get caught breaking them, we deal with the consequences. Just so happens that the punishment for being in a country illegally is deportation, at least for most countries. Very befitting of the crime, IMO.

Rewarding illegals while making suckers out of all the people who put in the time, money and heartache to immigrate the right way only serves to encourage the current cycle. At what point should it end? When we're as overpopulated as India or China? When our schools, prisons, healthcare are failing completely? Why should the citizens of other nations be given a better life at the expense of our own? We could have a population of 1 billion and there would still be an endless amount of people worldwide "wanting a better life."

We should be making choices that are beneficial to our country and it's citizens. I believe we should be maintaining the population, not drastically increasing it year by year.