Czech Fighter Aircraft L-159 to Hungary, Poland?

[2RHPZ]

Poland Interested in Buying Czech Fighter Aircraft

By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, PRAGUE

Poland may buy as many as 60 L-159 light combat aircraft from the Czech plane manufacturer Aero Vodochody, company spokesman Vitezslav Kulich told Agence France-Presse on June 23.

“We are in discussions about selling between two and 60 L-159s to Poland but the discussions are at an early stage and nothing will be agreed for some time,” Kulich said.

Poland is leading efforts to establish a joint training base for air force pilots from the Visegrad Four countries - the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia as well as Poland. All four joined the European Union on May 1.

The countries’ defense ministers approved the plan at a meeting last month.

According to Czech Radio, the planes would be purchased to equip the training base.

But Kulich said he could not confirm that.

“The joint training center is a matter for the Poles that we cannot comment on,” he added.

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Hungary Tests Czech L-159 Planes; May Be Interested in Purchase
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, PRAGUE

Hungarian military pilots who have been testing Czech L-159 training planes could be interested in their lease or purchase, a source close to manufacturer Aero Vodochody told AFP June 25.

“The Hungarian military tested the planes in May and June, but no decision has been made yet about buying or leasing them,” the source said, declining to stipulate how many planes Hungary might want.

Aero Vodochody has been negotiating with Hungary over the possible supply of L-139 combat aircraft or L-159 training planes for several years.

Poland also is interested in buying up to 60 of the aircraft, the company confirmed to AFP earlier this week.

Poland is leading efforts to establish a joint training base for air force pilots from the so-called Visegrad Four countries — the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland. All four joined the European Union on May 1.

According to Czech Radio, the planes would be purchased to equip the training base although the company said it could not confirm that.

[perdurabo]

Ekhm IF Poland buy L-159 (wich is nonsense we have our own aircraft factories) it will be training two seat version not combat oneseater.
There is idea to make NATO pilot training centrum (like Canadian one) around Demblin Eagles School
We also need to replace Iskra planes. But 1.we have Iryda (13planes build but grounded by politics) 2.PZL Mielec signed deals with Yak and MiG for their trainng planes (if Polish gov choses one of them they will be build in Poland) 3.BAE Hawk is more advenced cheaper in use... 4.other training planes MAKO, Aermacchi.....etc.

[mack pl]

I doubt we will buy L159. BTW we have very interesting propositions from Finland Air Force- they have Hawks, and we could use them to training.
In my opinion very interesting is south Korean trainer T50 Black Eagle(and combat version A50).

PS. pożyjemy, zobaczymy :)

[perdurabo]

I doubt we will buy L159. BTW we have very interesting propositions from Finland Air Force- they have Hawks, and we could use them to training.
In my opinion very interesting is south Korean trainer T50 Black Eagle(and combat version A50).

PS. pożyjemy, zobaczymy :)
i would choose T50/A50, Hawk or Yak130 but with full western avionics engines and fully(or almoust fully build in Poland) but agian prabably politics will chose it :( like F16 :fork:

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Last year PZL-Mielec and RSK MiG signed a deal about a licensed production of MiG-ATs in Mielec if WLOP chose MiG-AT as an advanced trainer.

A/T-50 would probably be too expensive for us... European projects are in early development phase (they would be ready about 2010), Russian aircraft are excluded because of politics, so final battle probably will be between L-159 and Hawk .

[perdurabo]

Last year PZL-Mielec and RSK MiG signed a deal about a licensed production of MiG-ATs in Mielec if WLOP chose MiG-AT as an advanced trainer.

A/T-50 would probably be too expensive for us... European projects are in early development phase (they would be ready about 2010), Russian aircraft are excluded because of politics, so final battle probably will be between L-159 and Hawk .
Yes it will be politics choice :( as for T/A50 you know old Polish saying "biedaka niestać na oszczędzanie" ?? (someone can translate?)

[mack pl]

so final battle probably will be between L-159 and Hawk .
So, this finnish propostions(Raport WTO 5/04 I think) could be very good, they have Hawks ,not the youngest models, but still good.

[perdurabo]

so final battle probably will be between L-159 and Hawk .
So, this finnish propostions(Raport WTO 5/04 I think) could be very good, they have Hawks ,not the youngest models, but still good.
but its only temporary solution because we must train first group of pilots to F16 in this or next year and we dont have proper trainers.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

It's good for few first years, but we need our own training aircraft.

The proposal of joint Central European training center is good (more machines, so they're cheaper, more pilots to train, etc.), but i doubt that it will become reality. Visegrad governments always have to f*ck all up (like joint Mi-24 upgrade)

[perdurabo]

It's good for few first years, but we need our own training aircraft.

The proposal of joint Central European training center is good (more machines, so they're cheaper, more pilots to train, etc.), but i doubt that it will become reality. Visegrad governments always have to f*ck all up (like joint Mi-24 upgrade)
yep and this upgrade was f* by czechs who decided to not upgrade old mi but take new mi24 and 17 for russian debts. but all other countries waited with modernisation so now it is too late to modernise Mi24D and we will modernise only Mi24W and not using super new tech but russian ataka system and so on :(

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

imho ataka is good enough for Mi-24s, and its cheaper than Western systems.

The biggest stupidity is modernising only "W" version, ca. 16 helos. What for? It may be better to sell all Mi-24s and buy new machines (i.e. Mangusta)

[mack pl]

imho ataka is good enough for Mi-24s, and its cheaper than Western systems.

The biggest stupidity is modernising only "W" version, ca. 16 helos. What for? It may be better to sell all Mi-24s and buy new machines (i.e. Mangusta)
If we create Big Combat-SAR unit, they could be important part of it. I mean this helos should be in 1 LGPR in Bydgoszcz. Of cours, they should be in CSAR version. Well, WLiOP want to made 3-4 CSAR versions, but 16 is better ;)

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Damn, I forgot about the CSAR :bash: <- me :D

But we still need a modern attack helo... and there' s no money for it...

[Harlequin]

Russian aircraft are excluded because of politics, so final battle probably will be between L-159 and Hawk .
There are several trainers in evaluations. The two you named with the Hawk a well known favourite for some air forces. Further there is the EADS MAKO and the Aermacchi M346.

I also consider it hasty for Poland to consider a joined eastern european flight school when the report on the european jet training school is about to come out by this years end. Together with this report, the comission will decide which trainer will be used. Since sales of this type will go up, it would make sense to wait for the winner of that contest.

Personally i favour the M346.

[perdurabo]

and i prefer POLISH plane(I22 Iryda little modified) but its not up to us :(

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

and i prefer POLISH plane(I22 Iryda little modified) but its not up to us :(

10 years ago it was a great plane, but now it's a different story :|

We have only 13 machines, and need ca. 60. Any export contracts are almost impossible (India has chosen Hawk).
And for these 60 machines we must built re-build assembly lines in Mielec, (fusealage) and Rzeszów (engines)- factories sold the production equipment.
So, its just uneconimic (?- my dictionairy is sh*t ;) ).

[Tony Williams]

Any word on that Czech ZPL-20 gun in the Plamen gunpod, which IIRC was developed for use by the L-159 ?

It is interesting as it is the Russian GSh-23 twin-barrel gun rechambered for American 20x102 ammunition - a real blend of east and west!

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[perdurabo]

and i prefer POLISH plane(I22 Iryda little modified) but its not up to us :(

10 years ago it was a great plane, but now it's a different story :|

We have only 13 machines, and need ca. 60. Any export contracts are almost impossible (India has chosen Hawk).
And for these 60 machines we must built re-build assembly lines in Mielec, (fusealage) and Rzeszów (engines)- factories sold the production equipment.
So, its just uneconimic (?- my dictionairy is sh*t ;) ).
production line for K15 eingine for Iryda is now in hands of Mielec factory
Planes arent made like cars you can assembly in the same factory few diffrent planes i had photo of EADS-PZL-WarszawaOkęcie factory they where building on the same line 3Wilga200 1TurboKruk and 1Orlik...
And in bigger scale its quite economic: moust of costs of production are personel costs(from 50% up to 99%) and this money go back to gov by taxes :D if you buy in other country money will leave Polish market and GDP will be smaller not to mention less work for polish workers... That is why USA givse arms for free they give jobs for their ppl and all the money go back to their budget this is also why all arms for US Military must be produced in states(at least 50% components of end product).... So the moust econolical way would be make new plane(work and knowledge for engineers!), build I22 but afther few modifications, or licensed build.....

[Tygryssek]

Licenced build Yak130 / M-346 called PZL "Cyklon"

1. Better aerodynamics than I22 and L39/59/159 Albatros.
2. Two engines for flying over sea - better for Polish Navy Aviation.
3. 3000kg payload for supporting Polish Marines.
4. Fly By Wire and modern Avionics = Lead In Flight Training Aircraft.
5. technological next step for PZL Mielec.

Older designs <--- Iskra | L39/50/159 Albatros | Hawk | AlphaJet | I22 Iryda | Yak130 M-346 | T-50 Goden Eagle | EADS MAKO -----> The Most Advanced Trainers.

L159 'super albatros' would be step back from I 22, Yak130 would be next step.

[2RHPZ]

Czech goverment gets a green light for selling 24 L-159 from property of Czech Air Force. No destination has been discussed, also no further comments. Experts expect Poland.

http://img6.exs.cx/img6/5141/avl39_4.jpg

http://www.vectorsite.net/avl39.html#m4

[2RHPZ]

Any word on that Czech ZPL-20 gun in the Plamen gunpod, which IIRC was developed for use by the L-159 ?

It is interesting as it is the Russian GSh-23 twin-barrel gun rechambered for American 20x102 ammunition - a real blend of east and west!

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

Some infos are here (http://katalog.czech-aop.cz/katalog_z/firmy/zvi/)