Mosin Nagant

[Migs]

Bud of mine said the Gander Mountain near my town got a surplus of em for about $120-ish. Just wondering what I should look for when I inspect it, I've never owned one before. Thanks.

[LaoSexMachine]

120 is expensive.

[Migs]

It's Gander Mountain wajah expect.
But my bud knows a guy who works there that can get me a good deal, plus a little bargaining never hurt.

[wicked_hind]

What Ezekiel said.Then again, I paid over 300 for my Finnish M-39 at a gun show, but the Soviet Mosins usually don't for more than 80-90 bucks at the most, depending on the condition. If it's a sniper variant with the optics, then be prepared to pay a lot more than 120.

[Kap]

http://www.jgsales.com/

Got some for 80ish, but with optics, they are like 400

[Bro Jangles]

look at the bore, but its a mosin nagant, chances are it'll work fine.

120 is way to much.

[Hippo]

a hex receiver is desirable over the more common round receiver

[GazB]

If you are looking at the carbines the 1938 is short and handy and doesn't have the extra weight of a bayonet lug at the front like the Model 1944 carbine.

[Soldat_Américain]

Depending on the time of year Big 5 Sporting Goods has them between $65 and $90.

[Hollis]

Mosin's covered two world wars. Contracted ones (made in other countries) are worth more. Also condition of each rifle can vary from junk to a Jem.

During the Communist's days, they were made in various Eastern block countries. Quality would also vary so, the price will vary too.

[Roy Batty]

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn243/CanadianSig/mosinnagant.jpg

[Migs]

Let's say a Mosin thats in the best condition you could find?
$$$?
i've heard ppl gettin' these for $60! (at the obvious point of lower quality though)

[Bro Jangles]

Sig ive been looking everywhere for that pic!

[sepia]

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn243/CanadianSig/mosinnagant.jpg
Wow!It's lower price. woot I want it too but in Thailand didn't have it if in Thailand had it,it's more expensive price. :-(

[TheBroncos]

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn243/CanadianSig/mosinnagant.jpg

lol.. priceless

[sergey31]

If you are looking at the carbines the 1938 is short and handy and doesn't have the extra weight of a bayonet lug at the front like the Model 1944 carbine.

True but I have yet to see 38 with excellent bore. Most of them shot out, counter-bored and just not as accurate as some 44's I came across.
The best Mosin Nagant is model 91/59. It's 91/30 cut to carbine length but still retains it's extra long leaf sight. Every single one of them I've seen had perfect barrel/bore and for some reason they are much lighter then 38's. But they are the very hard to come by and much more expensive as well (if the seller knows what it is ).


This rifle is 91/59, had another one just like it but sold it. Wish I had kept it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Guns/59.jpg

The 91/30 sights but increments past 1 km have been removed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Guns/59a.jpg

With it's iron sight it can easily shoot 1" and 100yd. Very light, well balanced, powerful and super accurate. Arguably one of the best carbines ever made.

[StickyPop]

It's been a while since I was shopping, but I picked up an M38 a few years back. From what I remember, you want to make sure the serial numbers all match up. If I remember correctly, look for them on the receiver, bottom of the magazine, buttstock plate, and I can't remember where else. Google for Mosin Nagant and find out what you should look for on the rifle.

By the way, I love it. Talk about a blast to shoot, literally.

[GazB]

If I remember correctly, look for them on the receiver, bottom of the magazine, buttstock plate, and I can't remember where else.

The bolt.


The best Mosin Nagant is model 91/59. It's 91/30 cut to carbine length but still retains it's extra long leaf sight.

Interesting. Have never seen those before... thanks. BTW I have about 6 MNs and all of them have shiny bores except one I bought for parts. Even it cleaned up OK. The Chrome lining and proper maintainence I think they will last another 100 years unlike the "modern" rifles. My 1938s bore is clean. In comparison I have had two 303s whose bores look like they have been left in a cupboard for 30 years after being fired a lot and not cleaned that still fired OK and got reasonable accuracy with good ammo.

[ferguson]

These are pretty much the "stone ax" of military weapons.
Simple, sturdy, crude.
The price you mentioned is way too high considering the zillions dumped on us in the last few years.
Don't worry about matching numbers.
All the imports are humped up belt sanded re stamped, refinished assemblies.
They were plentiful and cheap back in the 60s when there were lots of examples of all types of rifles from that era to choose from.
They were disdained then.
A few years ago when the USSR went out of existence the showed up by the boatload.
I got a couple for examples but don't care much for them.
They are serviceable if you don't mind having to use your foot to operate the action sometimes.
It fires a powerful cartridge.

[GazB]

These are pretty much the "stone ax" of military weapons.
Simple, sturdy, crude.

Have a few weapons design from the same period these weapons were used and they have fold up sights to shoot at targets that are 2km or more. Very nicely machined but a total waste of time and effort. When I take my 303 out shooting I must say I don't appreciate the extra weight of such an unnecessary item, the bolt is smooth and the safety is nice too, but at the end of the day it shoots similar weight projectiles about 100m/s slower than a MN rifle and it feels heavier. The 10 shot mag is nice but they were only ever issued with one mag so like the MN they were stripper clip fed or fed single rounds so the reload speed advantage is really only on paper.

[Hollis]

I kind of like the Mosins and the Fins do a really great job buffing them up too.

The WWII Mosins are rougher, so are the later WWII N. Germany firearms.

Hard to build stuff when your factories are disappearing under a bunch of smoke.

[GazB]

Hard to build stuff when your factories are disappearing under a bunch of smoke.

Yeah, I think the situation these weapons were created in and used in adds a value to them that goes beyond a pretty paintjob or how shiny it is. My Mk4* 303 has a crap barrel but it shoots OK and I really don't want to replace it because it would no longer be what it was.

[Dan2004]

I was at Gander today, they've got Norinco M44's in the $70-$100 price range. I also saw '98 Krag for 550.

No AR's. None. :-(

[Hollis]

I was at Gander today, they've got Norinco M44's in the $70-$100 price range. I also saw '98 Krag for 550.

No AR's. None. :-(

I think anything firearm that was under the past ban, is what has become highly desirable. No one is pushing to heavy on a bolt gun ban, exception is the 50 cal. So for us collectors of venerable old military rifles........ we are GTG. (Not that I don't like magazine feed thingies)

[Hollis]

A few of my Ruskie friends:

A Finnish one:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/FinnishPUSniper.jpg

Ruskie:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/00Snipermosin.jpg


The left on is made by Savage.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/New4.jpg

[Soldat_Américain]

A few of my Ruskie friends:


The left on is made by Savage.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/New4.jpg
Which would you be willing to part with for $0?

[TheArmenian]

Which would you be willing to part with for $0?

For $0 he will part with the one that uses a French username and is pictured in the snow p-)

Nice rifles HOLLIS. I like the one in the first photo with the tiger striped wood.

I have a rifle (with hexagonal receiver) and a carbine. One day I will buy a sniper version with the bent bolt handle and a PU scope.

Great guns that were born decades before me and will outlast me for sure.

[Hollis]

Great guns that were born decades before me and will outlast me for sure.


QFT, most do. There is a funny discussion on lasting quality of synthetic stocks VS wood stocks. I have one musket with a wood stock it is 191 years old, it has out lasted a lot of generations of people. Like these Mosin, they have lasted a long time too. My Savage Mosin was made for the Czar's Army.

In time their numbers will shrink from abuse, lost, misuse (as in a crime or sporterized)... etc. They will just go up in value and in the mean time one has a really nice shooter. For all the venerable rifles, for me, the tragedy is, they can not tell me their life story.

[martinexsquaddie]

Have a few weapons design from the same period these weapons were used and they have fold up sights to shoot at targets that are 2km or more. Very nicely machined but a total waste of time and effort. When I take my 303 out shooting I must say I don't appreciate the extra weight of such an unnecessary item, the bolt is smooth and the safety is nice too, but at the end of the day it shoots similar weight projectiles about 100m/s slower than a MN rifle and it feels heavier. The 10 shot mag is nice but they were only ever issued with one mag so like the MN they were stripper clip fed or fed single rounds so the reload speed advantage is really only on paper.

total rubbish you obviously don't know how to use a lee enfield.
compared with a Mauser the rate of fire just climbs the longer you shoot mosin just is not in the same leauge

[Hollis]

A side note on stripper clips and magazines, it was not until later, into WWII that magazines where considered to be switched instead of using a stripper clip to load the rifle. Even the SVT 40, was intended to be reloaded via stripper clips.

It could have been because of scarcity of raw materials and limited industrial production or ???

I agree with Martin the Enfield for WWI and later was ahead of it's time in some ways. It has a faster bolt action compared to Springfield, Mauser, Mosin and Arisakas.

[GazB]

total rubbish you obviously don't know how to use a lee enfield.Didn't need to be taught how to shoot a MN. :)

For all its sophistication and modern technology and superb craftsmanship it pretty much shoots about the same level of accuracy as my MN over roughly the same distances.


compared with a Mauser the rate of fire just climbs the longer you shoot mosin just is not in the same leaugeWhich might be crucial if I had 1,000 Zulu warriors marching slowly towards me and a distinct lack of Machineguns, but when I go out shooting 303 ammo costs about 3-4 times what 7.62 x 54mm ammo costs so rate of fire on a hunting trip actually favours the MN. :)


Even the SVT 40, was intended to be reloaded via stripper clips.The SKS which was designed in the immediate post war period (sometimes called the SKS45) and even it was clip loaded. Thinking at the time was that if you issued expensive box magazines the soldiers would lose them if they had to take them out during combat and replace them with a full one. I am sure as the soldier was emptying mags the last thing they would be thinking about was what to do with the empty mag. Obviously with proper training they could put it where they got the full one from but how many Soviet soldiers got that level of training before being sent to the front?

Note that wasn't just the thinking of the Soviets at the time... my Mk4* long branch 303 has a small loop in front of the mag well and another loop on the mag itself. It is so you can tie a lanyard from the loop to loop so that if you drop the mag for some reason you wont lose it.


It has a faster bolt action compared to Springfield, Mauser, Mosin and Arisakas.If the best feature of a bolt action is that it is "faster" then perhaps semi auto is what you really want. BAs are accurate, and powerful and long ranged and reliable, but if you want rate of fire then isn't that the department of the section MG?

[Brasi]

I bought my 91/59 ($95) and 91/30 ($80) from Aimsurplus and other then flaking on the finish, they both came in excellent condition. I refinished them myself and they look brand new. 7.62x54r ammo plentiful and isn't outrageously priced, but make sure you clean after shooting as most of the ammo is corrosive.

Things you want to look for;

1. Matching numbers, especially bolt with rest of rifle.
2. Since all the surplus rifles used corresive ammo it's a must you check the barrel out for pits.

[Migs]

What cleaning kits should I purchase along with the rifle?
Boresnake or does that cleaning rod already on it work well enough?
Also, does it favor heavy or lighter grain bullets for the twist rate on the thing.

[oldsoak]

@Gazb
- the idea of using section MG's wasnt around when the lee bolt was adopted by HMG. That had to wait until the adoption of the Bren. The concept of a barrage of shot delivered as fast as humanly predates the invention of automatic rifles - going back to the archers of yore. If you could do that at range, so much the better , hence the 2000 yards sight which all contemporary weapons had in some form or other. Meeting up with someone who could shoot accurately at range in S Africa and NW India - as it was, enforced the belief that good sights were necessary, and getting the whole platoon to blat away might bring forth the lucky shot that drops the wily foe. It was simply the prevalent military idea at the time. The Germans had exactly the same idea.
I shoot a lot of deer in NZ, and all have been taken at ranges that a battle sighted .303 could easily cope with, but almost everyman and his dog has glass on their rifle. Why is that ? Why dont we do away with the weight and expense of a tele and rely on iron sights in NZ ( apart from when you are going after Thar or Chamois ) ? Probably because we buy rifles driiled for scopes.
30rds a minute from a LE is more achievable than with an MN. That doesnt mean MN=bad , it means its not as suited to fast firing as the LE. In the age of the AK, thats probably not too relevant. Of all BA rifles, the LE had the most capacity because it fell in with the Brit army doctrine of the time. Reloading 3 times rather than 6 speeds things up !
I've shot a MN at Bisley using cheap chicom 7.62x54r FMJ and while I have no doubt its both strongly built and as accurate as the next mans rifle, I did prefer the LE action as being less "angular" to work with and more pleasant to shoot. I certainly couldnt do 30 a minute in it. I came pretty close with a LE and if I'd had checked all the chargers, I might have done it - but thats a yarn for another day. I would prefer a Lee Sporter over the equivalent MN deespite the cheaper ammo. Admittedly, I dont normally need a fast second or third shot unless I've turned a forestry block corner and run straight onto the boss boar. That aside, the MN is a strong, dependable rifle capable of good accuracy and with cheap ammo. It should give years of good service. I had fun stripping and cleaning the bolt though.

[Geezah]

The left on is made by Savage.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/New4.jpg

Savage made Nagants?

Was this part of a lend-lease program with Russia?


I sold my Savage Enfield to fund the GSG. I thought that if I start collecting WWII firearms I won't be able to stop.

We did get my Wife's Step-Father(as a birthday present) a Russian M44 a few years ago for somewhere in the region of $50, it was real clean too.

[Hollis]

The Savage was contracted by the Czar.

[GazB]

- the idea of using section MG's wasnt around when the lee bolt was adopted by HMG. That had to wait until the adoption of the Bren.Quite correct, they used dedicated Machine Gun Sections that were properly trained in the use of machinegun fire. When firepower was needed a MGS was added to a unit.


The concept of a barrage of shot delivered as fast as humanly predates the invention of automatic rifles - going back to the archers of yore.And was also popular with muskets too because they were relatively inaccurate as well.


If you could do that at range, so much the better , hence the 2000 yards sight which all contemporary weapons had in some form or other. Meeting up with someone who could shoot accurately at range in S Africa and NW India - as it was, enforced the belief that good sights were necessary, and getting the whole platoon to blat away might bring forth the lucky shot that drops the wily foe. It was simply the prevalent military idea at the time. The Germans had exactly the same idea.It was also tried in combat and found to be not that much use. My Lee Enfield is a Mk4* not an earlier model. By 1942 I think there were a few other options to the whole section firing off ammo for little potential gain.


I shoot a lot of deer in NZ, and all have been taken at ranges that a battle sighted .303 could easily cope with, but almost everyman and his dog has glass on their rifle. Why is that ?Using a scope makes shooting easier. Aligning your head for a scope to get a clear picture is easier to teach than positioning ones head to align the rear and front sight with the front sight in focus and then placing the front sight, which is focused on a blurry target and firing. In comparison placing a sharp crosshair on a focused target is much easier, adjusting your head so that the entire field of view in the scope is sharp and clear (ie your head isn't out of alignment).


Why dont we do away with the weight and expense of a tele and rely on iron sights in NZ ( apart from when you are going after Thar or Chamois ) ? Probably because we buy rifles driiled for scopes.Also because they are very cheap these days. I can't remember shooting any animal at more than 200m. With or without a scope. Obviously I have never been to war.


30rds a minute from a LE is more achievable than with an MN. That doesnt mean MN=bad , it means its not as suited to fast firing as the LE.Rapid firing at long range targets was used by many Soviet soldiers right at the start of WWII. By the time the Germans got in close for more realistic combat many of the Soviet soldiers were out of ammo. Rate of fire and long range iron sights are only useful features of bolt action rifles if you can train your soldiers to a level where such things are useful. BTW New Zealand has the worlds fastest firing Lee Enfield rifle. At 600 rpm it is certainly faster than the MN.


I've shot a MN at Bisley using cheap chicom 7.62x54r FMJ and while I have no doubt its both strongly built and as accurate as the next mans rifleStrange... with cheap Chinese ammo I find it is a bit of a shotgun. I get about 15cm groups at 100m with the stuff. I only use it on paper targets for plinking.


I would prefer a Lee Sporter over the equivalent MN deespite the cheaper ammo. Admittedly, I dont normally need a fast second or third shot unless I've turned a forestry block corner and run straight onto the boss boar.

I must admit for a while I was considering buying a sporterised LE and getting it converted to 7.62 x 39mm. From a LE length barrel the AK round is actually not that much less powerful than the 303. The 303 fires a 150 grain bullet at about 740m/s from a standard barrel. The AK round has a 120 grain bullet at 715m/s from a shorter barrel. I was considering a De Lisle like conversion with a large suppressor fitted and a barrel that was about 450mm long.

[oldsoak]

We were only shooting at 100m with Chicom stuff. While I shant say I clover leafed the bull, the groups were certainly acceptable from a 60 + year old rifle and iron sights set for someone else. Chicom stuff is usually plinking fodder, but you do get the odd batch that seems to have been made by a happier bunch of workers ! Not the cleanest stuff, but cheap.
Pulling the lead and putting in a proper hunting pill is rumoured to be cheaper than reloading - but hell, you know all that ober there. Cant figure why they didnt adopt a mauser bolt. Its certainly a strong action, and its bagged its fair share of game.

[GazB]

Pulling the lead and putting in a proper hunting pill is rumoured to be cheaper than reloading - but hell, you know all that ober there.

Actually I find the best way of getting accuracy from them is to weigh them.
I tend to find that apart from the materials (ie steel cases are cheap but they don't have the flexibility of brass) the amount of powder in each round is quite variable. The weight of the bullets and cases and primers is not so variable so differences in weight often equal the differences in powder load.
They seem to be made for MG ammo rather than for accuracy. Of course I am not using them at very long ranges anyway.


Cant figure why they didnt adopt a mauser bolt. Its certainly a strong action, and its bagged its fair share of game.

Environment. The Mosin Nagants kept firing at minus 20 degrees C and colder in Stalingrad. The German Mausers and their MGs stopped firing at those temperatures... though the absence of proper lubricants probably had something to do with it too.

[Finn76]

Remember to use safety glasses when shooting with your mosins, there is fair change to get all kinds of crap straigth into eye with mosin style bolt, if cardridge fails.

Thats feature is due mosins bolt desing, disassemble it and you will see why.

[oldsoak]

Heres a question - is the chamfered rim of the 7.62x54r designed so that if you load the rounds incorrectly ( ie so that the round below is forward of the round above ) you can still chamber the round by forcing it to ride up over the one below ? Or is it simply an accident of manufacturing ?

[GazB]

Heres a question - is the chamfered rim of the 7.62x54r designed so that if you load the rounds incorrectly ( ie so that the round below is forward of the round above ) you can still chamber the round by forcing it to ride up over the one below ? Or is it simply an accident of manufacturing ?

The internal mechanism of the magazine basically holds the round below the one you are loading in its position till the round has loaded. This means that as the bolt slides forward and the top round pops up out of the mag there is a gap of about 3 quarters the size of a standard round between the round going into the chamber and the next round in the mag. The two rounds don't touch after the top round has started the loading process. This doesn't mean the rounds can't lock and can be loaded any way you like. If the top round is in front of the round below it the tip of the bullet below it hitting the front of the mag will stop the top round from moving forward far enough to pop up.

[rhino]

here you go lads

http://www.youtube.com/v/DdxbMopm1lI&feature=related

[victor1-1actual]

i bought mine for 189 but it came with a bayonet ,ammo pouch all the cleaning tools and a second pattern screw driver which i put on my Ka Bar tanto

[kangur]

A different take on a Mosin:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/__J_pe-9ypG0/Sfao9aIVAyI/AAAAAAAAI98/jQdyEyXiVPQ/Long_shot_2009_resize_25.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/__J_pe-9ypG0/Sfao9h6UEHI/AAAAAAAAI-E/pInbLOsGQnY/s1024/Long_shot_2009_resize_26.JPG

[LaoSexMachine]

i bought mine for 189 but it came with a bayonet ,ammo pouch all the cleaning tools and a second pattern screw driver which i put on my Ka Bar tanto


Mine came with all of that for 90 pesos.