Obama "prostrates" himself to the King of Saudia Arabia

[MajorPayne]

http://foxforum.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/obama_saudi_bow.jpg

Obama claimed it wasn't a bow, perhaps he was tying his shoe laces or checking his fly?

[Polygon]

Obama claimed it wasn't a bow

Video definitely said otherwise...

[Laworkerbee]

American presidents are not supposed to bow to royalty, ever. :cantbeli:

[Soldat_Américain]

And this matters why?

[Backwoodshunter]

I know its a sign of respect and all, but as one world leader to another I think they're on the same level.

[MajorPayne]

It is the King who should be bowing to Obama (and the USA) for making them rich.

[Eknytz]

Why would he bow????
If the President is bowing that means that he is a subject of the King of Saudi Arabia and that makes Americans subjects of the King of Saudi Arabia :cantbeli:

[Winger]

I don't think he's bowing. His protocol department wouldn't steer him wrong that badly.

If you see the others' reactions it looks as if they are wowing over something.

Quick.....I'd like to see what witty quotes we can generate on this one. p-)

[JJC]

And this matters why?
Hussein's childhood education is definitely showing. Dun, Dun, Duuun! p-) But seriously, Obama is going too far with his liberal ideals. He should learn to control himself and respect the history and values of American citizenry that he supposed to represent. If no president Democrat or Republican ever bowed to anyone, especially to radical thugs, because there is an actual protocol and tradition that the White House follows, then he should not bow period.

[Soldat_Américain]

Hussein's childhood education is definitely showing. Dun, Dun, Duuun! p-) But seriously, Obama is going too far with his liberal ideals. He should learn to control himself and respect the history and values of American citizenry that he supposed to represent. If no president Democrat or Republican ever bowed to anyone, especially to radical thugs, because there is an actual protocol and tradition that the White House follows, then he should not bow period.

Maybe there isn't a protocol book. He's being respectful of another culture.

[Laworkerbee]

Maybe there isn't a protocol book. He's being respectful of another culture.

No God damn it, it's protocol. American presidents don't bow to royalty. Obama is just being a rank amateur here.

[SniperLane]

Why would he bow????
If the President is bowing that means that he is a subject of the King of Saudi Arabia and that makes Americans subjects of the King of Saudi Arabia :cantbeli:

you need oil... you bow simple as corn... and if america still considers itself as a world's power.. then infact we all did this bow to that goat-...... p-)

[Soldat_Américain]

No God damn it, it's protocol. American presidents don't bow to royalty. Obama is just being a rank amateur here.
I don't think he's being an amateur, and you sir need to calm down.

[SOG]

Oh thank God, I thought he cut off his wee-wee in front of the Saudi King. At least he would know we mean business...

[JJC]

Maybe there isn't a protocol book. He's being respectful of another culture.

There is a set of protocols that his people should be advising him on, but something tells me that tradition is not on his priority list because he wants to be "different" changed blah, blah. Remember how he saluted and shook the hand of the Marine guard, which was weird and not done by other presidents. The White House staff trains them to follow all of these pesky, "unimportant" silly traditions.
Is it a big deal probably not, but there is a million of different ways to show respect. I never saw a Saudi King or officials take extra steps to "show respect" to Western cultures by wearing Western suits just to make a statement.

Did you know that in State Department and other governments, they will coach their female staff to dress "modestly" and not flash crosses when they travel or meet Arabic leaders. This was told to me by someone who worked for State. Considering that our Saudi darling is not so concerned for U.S. or the West when his money is sent to Madrasas all over the world pumping out nutjobs that end up killing our troops, it did piss me off when Obama took that extra step to show respect.

[Hot Lips]

For all we know he tripped and quickly steadied himself. What I want to know is if he did something truly devastating for the future of America like give him an iPod?

[Soldat_Américain]

There is a set of protocols that his people should be advising him on, but something tells me that tradition is not on his priority list because he wants to be "different" changed blah, blah. Remember how he saluted and shook the hand of the Marine guard, which was weird and not done by other presidents. The White House staff trains them to follow all of these pesky, "unimportant" silly traditions.
Is it a big deal probably not, but there is a million of different ways to show respect. I never saw a Saudi King or officials take extra steps to "show respect" to Western cultures by wearing Western suits just to make a statement.


He salutes the Marine Guard in almost every picture I've seen of him coming out of Marine One, I think that's pretty cool actually, and yes I know we don't do things to be cool. And you're correct, neither have I, he's trying to give our nation a different image other than the one we've had the last five years, and I'm sure once he's done with his globe trotting tour things might change a little.

[SOG]

For all we know he tripped and quickly steadied himself. What I want to know is if he did something truly devastating for the future of America like give him an iPod?

Worse, he gave him a Zune. Mmmm.... leftovers!

I have no problem with Obama greeting the Saudi King this way as long as he greets others this way. Then again it is the Saudi King which is total crap.

[beNder]

No God damn it, it's protocol. American presidents don't bow to royalty. Obama is just being a rank amateur here.

See he is muslim p-)

[Zalmoxes]

I don't think he's bowing. His protocol department wouldn't steer him wrong that badly.

Maybe you forgot the Ipod and DVDs and hugging, and the friendly kiss and etc. etc. etc.....

[Panchito12]

See he is muslim p-)

It's "Secret Muslim", thank you very much.rofl

[beNder]

It's "Secret Muslim", thank you very much.rofl

heh heh

dayum, those are some scary looking dogs in your avatar.

[pascalywood]

And this matters why?

Because hes a muslim terrorist bowing to his leader, thats why.

/sarcasm

And i read "Obama's prostate", must admit that Im a bit deceived

[ronnieraygun]

I'm still waiting for him to do something LBJ cool, like whip out his **** and ask those around him if it "looks presidential."

[Albatross]

Maybe there isn't a protocol book. He's being respectful of another culture.


You really disappoint me. The POTUS should never bow, it shows submissiveness. This guy is a pussy, flat out.

[Kilgor]

You really disappoint me. The POTUS should never bow, it shows submissiveness. This guy is a pussy, flat out.

http://aleksandrakristina.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bush-kiss.jpg

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_saudi7.jpg

http://www.vbx.com/_Media/bush_saudi.jpg

[beNder]

The title is misleading,prostrate means to lay flat on ones stomach.

[Soldat_Américain]

You really disappoint me. The POTUS should never bow, it shows submissiveness. This guy is a pussy, flat out.


I was playing devil's advocate.

[Albatross]

I was playing devil's advocate.


Try playing American Soldier next time.

[pascalywood]

http://aleksandrakristina.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bush-kiss.jpg

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_saudi7.jpg

This is wrong on so many levels. fapfapfapfap

[Hobbesian Penguin]

After watching the video it seems more to me that he began bowing then checked himself and stood up. More than anything it seems like he made an embarrassing slip up, I mean the King of Saudi Arabia is a king after all, and he certainly looks regal, so its not surprising to me that Obama, without thinking, may have started to bow, and upon quickly realizing that he was the President, stood up, as per his station as an equal with the King. The whole episode lasted about 2 -3 seconds, he certainly didn't "prostrate" himself (which would involve getting down fully on the ground in a submissive position) The man has only been President for a few months, and this is his first major visit overseas I don't think its impossible or alarming for him to still be getting used the idea of being the freaking President.

[Kit]

I'm not buying this "It's submission" claim. Bowing is nothing but a polite gesture in these circumstances. Obama is not submitting anything to the King by a simple bow.

But I will draw the line at ring kissing. That's when we start having issues.

[Createdeemcee]

You guys have never heard of props? Whats wrong with Obama respecting a King. Obama is down to earth shows he a real person that can function and dialougue on all levels, not just shacked up in the O office. Last week he wore a Yamica How many will be pissed about that?

[Soldat_Américain]

Try playing American Soldier next time.
...forgot about that one...but in the end, last time I checked no one bows to the US so why is the POTUS in the only instance I have seen since his globe trot began bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia? I know he didn't bow to the Queen.

[Albatross]

You guys have never heard of props? Whats wrong with Obama respecting a King. Obama is down to earth shows he a real person that can function and dialougue on all levels, not just shacked up in the O office. Last week he wore a Yamica How many will be pissed about that?

I was quite angry, I was actually RAGING. Down with the juice. Seriously, thats a little bit different wouldn't you agree?


...forgot about that one...but in the end, last time I checked no one bows to the US so why is the POTUS in the only instance I have seen since his globe trot began bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia? I know he didn't bow to the Queen.

He shouldn't bow to anyone, period. I don't care if noone ever bows to him, thats not the point.

[scrybe]

http://aleksandrakristina.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bush-kiss.jpg



That's a really half-assed photoshop.

[Aerosoul]

http://www.youtube.com/v/9WlqW6UCeaY

Definitely a bow.

[Umbro2914]

You guys have never heard of props? Whats wrong with Obama respecting a King. Obama is down to earth shows he a real person that can function and dialougue on all levels, not just shacked up in the O office. Last week he wore a Yamica How many will be pissed about that?

He is not the King of the world, and neither the US nor Obama are subject to him, thus bowing, or showing any other form of submission is unnecessary and rather inappropriate. Major mistake. :cantbeli:

[Breakfast in Vegas]

I don't think he's being an amateur, and you sir need to calm down.Yes he is being amateur in his zeal to please.

[Hobbesian Penguin]

Definitely a bow.

I don't think so. There is no reverence, he does not bow low or for a long time. He stoops, then quickly stands up.

ALL OF US ARE FORGETTING AN IMPORTANT THING

Bowing is not considered respectful in Islam, the only person a Muslim bows to is God, and that practice is complicated and involves several rituals. Therefore Obama "bowing" to the King could easily be interpreted as insulting by Muslims. This furthers the idea, to me at least, that it was a gaffe, a mistake to be chalked up to a moments indecision and forgetting of place.

[Aerosoul]

How long does he have to stay bent over for it to be a bow for you?
I would agree it could be chalked up as some kind of a gaffe. A gaffe in which - he f*cking bowed.

[ronnieraygun]

ALL OF US ARE FORGETTING AN IMPORTANT THING


It was a brutish and short bow, how's that.

[beNder]

A bow in most cultures shows a sign of respect except for maybe the muslims. And they call us the evil ones.

[Hobbesian Penguin]

How long does he have to stay bent over for it to be a bow for you?
I would agree it could be chalked up as some kind of a gaffe. A gaffe in which - he f*cking bowed.

The point is that in the middle of bowing he realized his mistake and stood up, he didn't kiss the ring, or stoop lower. the point was that he had a moment of forgetfulness which he corrected in a few seconds.

[beNder]

It was a brutish and short bow, how's that.

I was just a slip up that was cought by the cameras, he was bowing to his muslim brothas p-)

[WebMoskal]

Don't understand, why there is a confusion he "clearly" did not bow. Per White House Press Sec. Obama just too tall.
Now, who are you gonna believe White House Press Sec. or your eyes.

[Hobbesian Penguin]

A bow in most cultures shows a sign of respect except for maybe the muslims. And they call us the evil ones.

Muslims still believing bowing is respectful, its just that bowing is also an act of submission. Because Islam holds that there should be nothing between God and Man, to bow before another person is to show submission to a man made artifact, (such as a high political office). However, since both the King and the subject are equal in the eyes of God, there should be no bowing between them.

Quite democratic in that way.

[Tokamak]

http://www.youtube.com/v/9WlqW6UCeaY

Definitely a bow.

If that is not a bow, I don't know what it is.

[beNder]

Muslims still believing bowing is respectful, its just that bowing is also an act of submission. Because Islam holds that there should be nothing between God and Man, to bow before another person is to show submission to a man made artifact, (such as a high political office). However, since both the King and the subject are equal in the eyes of God, there should be no bowing between them.

Quite democratic in that way.

OK, thanks for he clarification.

To be safe, just shake hands with muslims. Left hand right?

[Soldat_Américain]

OK, thanks for he clarification.

To be safe, just shake hands with muslims. Left hand right?

The right.

[Hobbesian Penguin]

OK, thanks for he clarification.

To be safe, just shake hands with muslims. Left hand right?

I would always go with right. The left hand has ancient associations with the devil for some reason (Sinistra is Latin for left see: Sinister) This association is mainly forgetting by us Europeans and descendent's, but the perception of the left hand being associated with evil is very alive in North African cultures, I'm not entirely sure about more Eastern Muslim culture, but i know nothing about the right hand being evil so I would stick with that.

[ronnieraygun]

Oh yeah. Be sure also to eat only with your left hand. Also, offer to show any swarthy type the bottom of your shoes to show them how fastidiously clean you are. Be sure to bring your dog in when they invite you over; they love pets and would be honored if your dog were to take a seat at the table and eat with you.

[ronnieraygun]

I would always go with right. The left hand has ancient associations with the devil for some reason (Sinistra is Latin for left see: Sinister) This association is mainly forgetting by us Europeans and descendent's, but the perception of the left hand being associated with evil is very alive in North African cultures, I'm not entirely sure about more Eastern Muslim culture, but i know nothing about the right hand being evil so I would stick with that.

i can't believe you let Bender bait you like that.

[szr]

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8359/obamasaudibow.jpg

"Your fly's open. Here, let me get that for you Your Majesty."

[Hobbesian Penguin]

i can't believe you let Bender bait you like that.

hey if he wants to take advantage of my honesty and helpfulness thats his business, it doesn't cost me more than a few minutes of my nearly worthless time.

[Ameen]

I don't think so. There is no reverence, he does not bow low or for a long time. He stoops, then quickly stands up.

ALL OF US ARE FORGETTING AN IMPORTANT THING

Bowing is not considered respectful in Islam, the only person a Muslim bows to is God, and that practice is complicated and involves several rituals. Therefore Obama "bowing" to the King could easily be interpreted as insulting by Muslims. This furthers the idea, to me at least, that it was a gaffe, a mistake to be chalked up to a moments indecision and forgetting of place.

That's correct. I am Muslim and I would never bow for the King of Saudi Arabia. I wouldn't see it as an insult if someone bowed to me, or if I bowed for someone in another culture (like if someone Japanese bowed, I would bow back out of respect of their culture)

[Albatross]

could easily be interpreted as insulting by Muslims. This furthers the idea, to me at least, that it was a gaffe, a mistake to be chalked up to a moments indecision and forgetting of place.

That would be............AWESOME!!!

I am not trying to insinuate that insulting Islam is a good thing, nor is insulting any religion for that matter (scientology aside). The fact that his clown's willingness to please everyone might be an insult to some culture other than ours, is gaaahhhrrreeeatt!

[Ameen]

OK, thanks for he clarification.

To be safe, just shake hands with muslims. Left hand right?

Nope. Always the right hand.

[Ameen]

That would be............AWESOME!!!

I am not trying to insinuate that insulting Islam is a good thing, nor is insulting any religion for that matter (scientology aside). The fact that his clown's willingness to please everyone might be an insult to some culture other than ours, is gaaahhhrrreeeatt!


I highly doubt that they would take it as an insult. You are just looking for another reason to bash Obama

[Albatross]

If I am not mistaken is the hand over the heart a way to pay respect in the Arabic world?

[Albatross]

I highly doubt that they would take it as an insult. You are just looking for another reason to bash Obama

who is looking? I got a solid bashing reason right in front of me.

[Moledet]

And the comedians thought they won't have funny material any more.

[G-AWZT]

A nod would've sufficed. What Obama did was over the top and in my opinion a mistake. The jihadis despise the Saudi Royals, and now see the new US Pres. making a doofus of himself by lowering himself literally lower than Saudi royal "scum".

[Ameen]

If I am not mistaken is the hand over the heart a way to pay respect in the Arabic world?

Yes you are correct.

[Hobbesian Penguin]

If I remember correctly, a Muslim is supposed to match or exceed the reverence of a greeting they recieve, i.e. although a Muslim would not greet a non-Muslim with Salaam Alyakum. If a Christian or fire-worshipper greeted a Muslim with Salaam Alyakum it would be expected for the Muslim to respond in kind, even though the greeter is not Muslim.

Therefore I think it is reasonable to argue that because Obama greeted the Saudi King with a bow, the King Fasyal should have responded with his own bow which would have matched or exceeded Obama's reverence.

[Jobu]

Two words:

naive idiot

[Moledet]

King wears a dress, he can't bow. He'll need to do that princess thing and it will look gay.

[Hobbesian Penguin]

King wears a dress, he can't bow. He'll need to do that princess thing and it will look gay.

The curtsy is really a product of European culture where bowing is a guy thing. The dress does prove a problem though, maybe his plan was to match the reverence by looking slightly shocked and confused?

[WarDancer]

http://aleksandrakristina.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bush-kiss.jpg

One of the worst photoshopped clips I've ever seen.

[WarDancer]

So, now not only is BHO telling us how he's gonna spend our money, but now he's telling us something completely different than what our own eyes are seeing despite the incontrovertible video! Unbelievable. The Audacity!!

[beNder]

Seriously, I thought it was an insult to shake hands with he right hand cause you wipe your ass with you right hand.

[Gleipnir]

After watching the clip, I see it as an extension of the hand-shaking movement a taller man makes when shaking the hand of someone shorter than himself. As a tall man, when seeing this footage it struck me as familiar because I in fact do a similar thing. As he extends his arm, he bends slightly at the waist so as to accommodate the plane in which his hand meets the hand of the King.
That's my take on the subject. I personally would not consider this a bow.

/EDIT/
just saw the clip Aerosoul posted... I was referring to the secondary movement

what happens before hand..... looks like a bow to me (the critical detail being the dipping of the head), unless he tripped or some other action obscured from our point of view

[G-AWZT]

So, now not only is BHO telling us how he's gonna spend our money, but now he's telling us something completely different than what our own eyes are seeing despite the incontrovertible video! Unbelievable. The Audacity!!



If it was Bush he'd get creamed by every lib paper and MSNBC. Rachel Madcow and Olberdunce would have a field day and John Stewart would have enough material for a couple weeks.

[beNder]

He is probably going to bow to every leader of every country of the world seeing how he has spent 3 trillion USD in two months, we need cash infusions from anyone that we can get it from. Rest assured, change is coming.

[Soldat_Américain]

Rest assured, as liberal as Bill Maher is...he rips Obama for this one tonight.

[G-AWZT]

Rest assured, as liberal as Bill Maher is...he rips Obama for this one tonight.




Really? I'll have to watch.

[ronnieraygun]

Seriously, I thought it was an insult to shake hands with he right hand cause you wipe your ass with you right hand.

What you did there. I see it.

[LineDoggie]

Good God, I cant believe people are still trying to pass this off as a real Picture

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/photoshopfail.jpg

[budgie]

It is the King who should be bowing to Obama (and the USA) for making them rich.


LOL. You got that. Again I wouldn't mind the bows because the Saudis still know who daddy is. As long as he followed the bow up with a, BTW about these terrorists you've been funding...


For all we know he tripped and quickly steadied himself. What I want to know is if he did something truly devastating for the future of America like give him an iPod?

Or DVDs


Seriously, I thought it was an insult to shake hands with he right hand cause you wipe your ass with you right hand.

left

[dave81]

So the 8 years that the other guy bent over for our Saudi oil masters doesn't count?

[budgie]

So the 8 years that the other guy bent over for our Saudi oil masters doesn't count?

Anyone remember Bandar Bush?

[tea drinker]

Isn't there always a mutual bow when meeting the Japanese? Well, not always but you know what I mean.
Obowma

[Macs.]

LOL. You got that. Again I wouldn't mind the bows because the Saudis still know who daddy is.

Ehm... They know who daddy is, and guess why the saudi king didn't bow and is always greeted with great happiness by US presidents...


So the 8 years that the other guy bent over for our Saudi oil masters doesn't count?

Well, for obvious reason no one is ever gonna go hard on this pillow-fater "king" and co. He can be happy his country happens to be on a very lucky spot.

The hotspot for terrorism, the birthplace and livingspace of Osama Bin Laden and most of the 9/11 hijackers, and many many more islamic terrorists. Money central for international islamic radicals, and absolute islamic regime...

But money still rules the planet at the end of the day. :|

[Chulo]

http://aleksandrakristina.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bush-kiss.jpg

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_saudi7.jpg

http://www.vbx.com/_Media/bush_saudi.jpg
atleast you know they were equals, bowing on the other hand...

[StickyPop]

I don't understand how anybody other than Ray Charles can't see that bow. Either that, or he was bending over to take it up the ass.

[ronnieraygun]

I don't understand how anybody other than Ray Charles can't see that bow. Either that, or he was bending over to take it up the ass.

^^suspension of disbelief. If you voted for the guy you just don't want to believe it...p-)

[Chulo]

I don't understand how anybody other than Ray Charles can't see that bow. Either that, or he was bending over to take it up the ass.
he didnt bow


The White House is denying that the president bowed to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia at a G-20 meeting in London, a scene that drew criticism on the right and praise from some Arab outlets.


“It wasn’t a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he’s taller than King Abdullah,” said an Obama aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.




The Washington Times called the alleged bow a “shocking display of fealty to a foreign potentate” and said it violated centuries of American tradition of not deferring to royalty. The Weekly Standard, meanwhile, noted that American protocol apparently rules out bowing, or at least it reportedly did on the occasion of a Clinton “near-bow” to the emperor of Japan.
apparently King Abdullah is about knee height

[pascalywood]

I dont understand why there is such a fuss about this. The country is in a war on 2 fronts, the economy sucks, etc etc and all you care about is if he bowed to a king or not? That reminds me of the anti Bush crowd when he got elected...

[Mr.K]

Should have given him an ipod!

[Gleipnir]

This doesn't really deserve so much controversy, but in all fairness-



“It wasn’t a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he’s taller than King Abdullah,” said an Obama aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.I watched the clip again, Obama's other hand is at his side during the bow and one can clearly then see it come up to do the two-handed shake after the fact.

Does this remind anyone of

back and to the left.... back and to the left.... back and to the left....

.... back and to the left

[Bia]

You males and your fixation for posturing and strutting rituals (bows, assgrabs, sports & spearchucking).... is kinda...ghey.

:P

[pascalywood]

You males and your fixation for posturing and strutting rituals (bows, assgrabs, sports & spearchucking).... is kinda...ghey.

:P

the woman speaks the truth. Now back to the kitchen.

[StickyPop]

the woman speaks the truth. Now back to the kitchen.

Or bedroom/laundry room.

[BearInBunnySuit]

“It wasn’t a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he’s taller than King Abdullah,” said an Obama aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.


So did Obama also "bow" to the other heads of states shorter than him or was the Saudi king the shortest and therefore, the POTUS had to lean down further to grab his hands?

[szr]

Maybe Obama's just got really bad eyesight so he had to bend over that far to find Abdullah's hands.

[ronnieraygun]

So did Obama also "bow" to the other heads of states shorter than him or was the Saudi king the shortest and therefore, the POTUS had to lean down further to grab his hands?

You tell us. You seem to be one of the more well-travelled observant ones. The video looks a certain way but no one has piped up here that might actually know a thing or two about real diplomacy/decorum/protocol in a case like this.

[BearInBunnySuit]

You tell us. You seem to be one of the more well-travelled observant ones. The video looks a certain way but no one has piped up here that might actually know a thing or two about real diplomacy/decorum/protocol in a case like this.

I have no expertise on diplomacy other than what I learned over my parents' shoulders but here's my 2 cents.

First, I think Obama needs to fire his protocol team. There have been too many gaffs and faux pas.

Two, Obama is not just another Joe Six-Pack off the street. He is the most visible symbol of a very important country. He should not say or do anything that is in the least bit controversial and left up to interpretation.

Three, Obama should know that he is under close scrutiny by both friends and foes and therefore, should be more circumspect and careful. While his intentions may be good, the message he is sending may not be in the best interest of the country.

Four, I really hope Obama succeeds. I am not enamored of him as some of the posters here but I want him to succeed because America deserves nothing less from its commander in chief.

Five, he needs to make up his mind what his policies are rather than trying to be everyone's friend. We are not in high school. We are talking about national interests. At times, one must be tough even if you alienate certain people because at the end of the day, the prosperity and the security of the country he has sworn to serve and lead should be the only thing that matters.

[ronnieraygun]

^^Thank you, BiBS. If I believed in being right on the internet, you would get a Burger King crown or something. That's very well thought out. Personally, I suspect a lot of his staffing decisions were made in haste to mend wounds in the Democratic party so he did not get all the best his administration could have had. It seems like protocol minders are no exception. As you said, it's our country, too. I'd hate like hell to find out he had some 22 year old staffer who got the gig from an east coast apparatchik pull him aside and say "he's a king, bow to him."

[Winger]

So did Obama also "bow" to the other heads of states shorter than him or was the Saudi king the shortest and therefore, the POTUS had to lean down further to grab his hands?

After reviewing the clip extensively I have to chalk up as a flamboyant curtsy.

[BlackTooth]

http://www.vbx.com/_Media/bush_saudi.jpg

New desktop wallpaper, new facebook avatar.

[Bulletproof]

One is a king and the other one is...well...hmm...only a president...

[takavar92]

If I remember correctly, a Muslim is supposed to match or exceed the reverence of a greeting they recieve, i.e. although a Muslim would not greet a non-Muslim with Salaam Alyakum. If a Christian or fire-worshipper greeted a Muslim with Salaam Alyakum it would be expected for the Muslim to respond in kind, even though the greeter is not Muslim.

Therefore I think it is reasonable to argue that because Obama greeted the Saudi King with a bow, the King Fasyal should have responded with his own bow which would have matched or exceeded Obama's reverence.

if one greets you with a salam, you are obliged to reply. this cant be translated into bowing as someone else said, to bow down for another human is Ha'ram (forbidden) in islam-only god should be bowed down to.
and to be bowed down for is also considered disrespectful & embarrassing.


King wears a dress, he can't bow. He'll need to do that princess thing and it will look gay.

its called a ka'ndura and its alot more comfortable than you might think. you can ride a horse in one of those.
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what the whitehouse said is bullsh*t, king abdullah isnt that short an obams short himself! but grasping his two hands would make sense, khaliji (gulf) arabs have a habit of it, especially saudis when greeting another person.
hmm maybe obama wants a democratic saudi arabia after a revolution (reminds me of iran and the shah) by "bowing" the saudi king he will infuriate the radicals in saudi & abroad causing massive strife in the kingdom and could lead to a coud'et tat and depostion of the throne...

anyways this isnt as big as its been made by the media and forumers...
take a breath guys :)

[RA88IT]

People please! I have a logical explanation for this controversial issue. Obama simply drop the golden casing for the Ipod. The Ipod was OK and was firmly clench by Obama when the casing dropped. It would have been a whole other issue if he dropped the Ipod. He would look more clumsy then then the helicopter bumb, Bush, or Ford.

On the note: Saudi King owes president Obama a bow to show to balance mutual respect of World leaders.

[takavar92]

People please! I have a logical explanation for this controversial issue. Obama simply drop the golden casing for the Ipod. The Ipod was OK and was firmly clench by Obama when the casing dropped. It would have been a whole other issue if he dropped the Ipod. He would look more clumsy then then the helicopter bumb, Bush, or Ford.

On the note: Saudi King owes president Obama a bow to show to balance mutual respect of World leaders.
read my post above yours. the saudi king wont do it (bow down for obama as a returning gesture)

[RA88IT]

Obama needs to have team set like Nixon did with his "plumbers" when encountering media. Its little things like this that gets Liberals and Conservatives nuts going? People like Rush Limbaugh is just going to nail this to the president. By the way has he said anything yet?

[Dark-Angel25]

OBAMA=One Big Ass Mistake America :).
What a servile gesture from the supposedly most powerful man in the world!!!

[Netzach]

American presidents are not supposed to bow to royalty, ever. :cantbeli:

I can’t recall the exact details, but there was much speculation (in advance of a Royal visit to Japan) if Prince Philip would follow custom,
and politely bow. In the end he made a gesture at a nod in their direction, managing to stand up straight throughout, unlike Obama, who
swooned like a debutant being presented at court.

----------------------------------------------------------------

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/apr2009/4/7/the-queen-and-michelle-obama-pic-epa-480743043.jpg

It is not the done thing to handle the Queen - at least two Australian Prime Ministers have committed this most heinous breach of protocol,
and sparked a minor diplomatic incident each time. Allowances can be made for the fact that Australia was founded as a penal colony, and
they know no better, but it was a shock to see The Queen & Head of The Commonwealth barged around in her own home by the First Lady.

[szr]

One is a king and the other one is...well...hmm...only a president...That's not how we roll in These United States.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4512/virginiasealold719381.jpg

At least Michelle knows what's up. Barack, on the other hand, needs to get with the program.

[Soldat_Américain]

Oh Virginia she calls me back:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=987&pictureid=12152
Oh Shenandoah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMsfkEMZREU

And this is something I thought would be funny...This Is My Home:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cTzLdyuCA4

[szr]

FFV, baby. Represent.

[budgie]

I call Hasselhoff on this entire thread

[gustav]

Whats worse? Obama bowing to king Abdullah or Bush turning a blind eye on Saudi involvement in 9/11 and other terrorist activities around the world?

[ferguson]

Simple symbol of submission to his real masters.
Why is anyone surprised at anything this pretender does?
Why is anyone insisting on justifying him?

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Simple symbol of submission to his real masters.
Why is anyone surprised at anything this pretender does?
Why is anyone insisting on justifying him?Tinfoil hat alert.

[Netzach]

Whats worse? Obama bowing to king Abdullah or Bush turning a blind eye on Saudi involvement in 9/11 and other terrorist activities around the world?

Good post,

That question is rarely asked around here, and it should be.

[RoyB]

Looks like Obama is turning a blind eye too.. as long as the oil keeps flowing, what do you expect?

[Moledet]

Good post,

That question is rarely asked around here, and it should be.
Didn't notice Obama declaring war on Saudi Arabia...He just like Bush doesn't publically blame them for 9/11, but at least Bush didn't bow.

[Lasse]

Amlolicans.

Are you really that pissed cause a man did a respectful gesture? When he does a curtsey instead, then I'd start wondering.

[gustav]

Looks like Obama is turning a blind eye too.. as long as the oil keeps flowing, what do you expect?

Its pretty clear they have us by the balls.Thats why we should all buy French nuclear reactors.p-)

But this whole debate about a bow is still ridiculous.

[Empulse]

What a deal, the American president showing some humbleness... what a shame, scream it from the rooftops :roll: In my humble opinion some American humbleness wouldn't be more than appropriate with the current mess they are primarily responsible for.

[Hobbesian Penguin]

Its pretty clear they have us by the balls.Thats why we should all buy French nuclear reactors.p-)

But this whole debate about a bow is still ridiculous.

NO WAY DUDE

Didn't you hear of Three Mile Island, people died!

Oh.. wait....

[bugkill]

LMAO, this was an obvious MISTAKE by President Obama and for people to say otherwise is just blindly accepting this gaffe. Look, this is just another thing that the right will use to further tarnish Obama through the media and you know what? Obama deserves to get called out on it.

There is ZERO excuse for the sitting american president bowing to a king or any other monarch. Is it a big deal to me? No, but it is the message that you convey with your actions that are at stake here. I want Obama to do well as president, just like I would for any president of my country, but you can't defend his actions here.

He was CLEARLY bowing and the White House would be smart to not say anything about it and let Obama speak on it. If Obama comes out and says that he showed a bit of respect for the saudi king by lowering his head to him, so be it. But to have some staff member make some lame excuse is just a slap in the american people's face and is not necessary.

[bugkill]

However, I will say that the bow is a bit exaggerated. I thought that the vid would show Obama taking a knee and all that, but that he only slomped over and bent his knee was not that big of a deal to me.

A bow of submission is very obvious and the vid did not show that, but Obama does have to be very careful with his actions from now on.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Simple symbol of submission to his real masters.
Why is anyone surprised at anything this pretender does?
Why is anyone insisting on justifying him?Some of you guys have to make up your mind who controls President Obama is it Puppet Master in Chief Rahm of the ZOG or is it Islamic Jihad. Pick one and stay with one.p-)

[loganinkosovo]

The Man wants to set up an Aristocracy (Socialism) in America so why does it surprise anyone that he pi$$es upon the Constitution and the protocol of the Presidency of the most Anti-Aristocrat Country in the History of Man-Kind.

In the 1908 London Olympics all participating countries were told to dip their country's Flag while passing the King during the opening ceremonies.


In the Immortal Words of Marty Sheridan, Olympian and New York Irish Cop, to the Englishman the American Team hired to carry the Stars and Stripes in the Opening Ceremony......

"Listen up Boyo, and Listen Good. If you dip that Flag yer carry'n the last ting you'll see is the lights of the ambulance taking you to the Hospital.

That Flag dips for no Earthly King!"


And since that day, when an Irish cop defied an English King, Our Flag has dipped for no one and our President has not bowed to any Earthly King.


No Real American would bow any King and no Real American would ever allow our Flag to dip to Anyone.

[uTu]

......

In the Immortal Words of Marty Sheridan, Olympian and New York Irish Cop, to the Englishman the American Team hired to carry the Stars and Stripes in the Opening Ceremony......

"Listen up Boyo, and Listen Good. If you dip that Flag yer carry'n the last ting you'll see is the lights of the ambulance taking you to the Hospital.

That Flag dips for no Earthly King!"
...

wow, that's an interesting story.
Gee that's a bad sign if the President of The United States is bowing to a dictator like this. Surely looked like a bow. A harmless gesture or the end of a rare tradition of independence in this world?

[budgie]

The Man wants to set up an Aristocracy (Socialism) in America so why does it surprise anyone that he pi$$es upon the Constitution .


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=802&pictureid=9656

[am39exocet]

I think it is an error from Obama perhaps he trying to demostrate a respect towards the king of Saudi Arabia , protocolarly it is an error.

It is not an evidence that obama could be a muslim or have any sympathy for this religion.

Although , Obama must be aware that it is dangerous for him to do it. The simple fact or evidence that this man have a collusion with muslims religion or anything turn around it , this position could trigered a great crisis in the USA, due to the people of course which not accept it but also via politics...

Im not sure that there doesn't have a posibility for an impeachment...

for instance relax , considerate all this as an error.

[bugkill]

Well, it is a non-story now after the rescue of Captain Phillips from the pirates. Obama was the one that gave the go-ahead for the mission and I'm sure that the bowing incident is nothing now.

[Vorian]

9 pages on whether Obama bowed? We need a crisis and fast, we are running out of subjects to discuss.

[plato]

9 pages on whether Obama bowed? We need a crisis and fast, we are running out of subjects to discuss.

Shh! Don't tell them! Obama bowed on purpose just to divert people's attentions on real important issues.

[ren0312]

The Man wants to set up an Aristocracy (Socialism) in America so why does it surprise anyone that he pi$$es upon the Constitution and the protocol of the Presidency of the most Anti-Aristocrat Country in the History of Man-Kind.

In the 1908 London Olympics all participating countries were told to dip their country's Flag while passing the King during the opening ceremonies.


In the Immortal Words of Marty Sheridan, Olympian and New York Irish Cop, to the Englishman the American Team hired to carry the Stars and Stripes in the Opening Ceremony......

"Listen up Boyo, and Listen Good. If you dip that Flag yer carry'n the last ting you'll see is the lights of the ambulance taking you to the Hospital.

That Flag dips for no Earthly King!"


And since that day, when an Irish cop defied an English King, Our Flag has dipped for no one and our President has not bowed to any Earthly King.


No Real American would bow any King and no Real American would ever allow our Flag to dip to Anyone.

May also have something to do with the animosity of the Irish towards British Empire at that time.

[IraGlacialis]

Aristocracy (Socialism)
You really got the definition of socialism down pat, don't yah?

The guy is relatively new to politics, especially in the field of international intrigue; it is expected for there to be some things done that his predecessors haven't done. He'll most likely learn in the future. And while it may have been a bow, it definately wasn't what the title made it out to be: a full-on prostration.
I'd rather focus on how he exercises policy than little breaches in protocol. But, hey, whatever float your guys' boat.

[SilentType]

Who knows why he did it?

I don't know. You don't know. The only person that knows is Obama.

I do know this though you don't have to be an expert in foreign diplomacy to avoid acting like an ass.

My guess is he thought he was being funny. I don't think anyone got the joke including the King and certainly not the American people.

[skipperbob]

Enough already! Get a life!

[ren0312]

You really got the definition of socialism down pat, don't yah?

The guy is relatively new to politics, especially in the field of international intrigue; it is expected for there to be some things done that his predecessors haven't done. He'll most likely learn in the future. And while it may have been a bow, it definately wasn't what the title made it out to be: a full-on prostration.
I'd rather focus on how he exercises policy than little breaches in protocol. But, hey, whatever float your guys' boat.

Look on the bright side, at least he did not kneel before a parchment of paper placed on a throne.

[Brasi]

Ok, I'll say it. He tripped on his shoe laces and was caught by the Saudi king just in time.

[uTu]

he actually looks like he has his hands on his crotch, maybe he was muttering 'deez nutz' when he feigned a bow?

[squidO]

Two bows:

http://www.youtube.com/v/4gJtIss7xso

[budgie]

Hasselhoffffffff!!!!!

[loganinkosovo]

You really got the definition of socialism down pat, don't yah?



Socialism controls who is educated by controlling who goes to university.

Socialism controls education by taxing books to where they are 3 to 5 times what they cost in the States.

There are no free libraries like there are in the states...you must rent library books even though you pay taxes for the library.

There are no night schools that will give you a university diploma like in the states.

You take a test at the age of about 12 that determines the rest of your life since if you do poorly on it you don't go to college, you are locked into the lower class with no way out.

And you better believe the ruling class makes sure their kids pass the test.


Socialism taxes the middle class out of existence so there are only those who rule and those who just get by. The tax system is designed to cripple anyone who succeeds and is not part of the ruling class.

The Ruling Class (anyone who works for the Government) pays no taxes, not one euro, but they are the ones who make your tax laws.

You've got Income Tax, Road Tax, Car Tax, License Tax, Radio and TV tax, Dog Tax, Bicycle Tax, Water Tax, Petrol Tax, Tax on a Tax in the Petrol Tax, Tax on a tariff on a Tax in the Petrol Tax....Hell, the State of Bavaria even tried to Tax Rainwater....the only tax that didn't pass!

A socialist never met a Tax he didn't like.

Get elected to any position in the Government twice and you have 100% of the pay for the rest of your life....tax free.

When you vote in Socialism your vote goes to the party and not the person you voted for. The party decides who they want in that office...not a stinking peasant like you.

I could go on and on, I lived in Europe for about 20 years, lived downtown, as we say, and had live-in dictionaries with **** so I knew what was going on.

The only difference between Socialism and Aristocracy is that the Lords and the Ladies now work for the Government but the game is still fixed against the Peasant.

The New Socialism is just the Old Aristocracy in a shiny wrapper so you can't smell the Sh!t.

You may be happy being a Peasant but my people refused to live in someone's chains and killed to prove it.

I can do no less than strive to keep America free of "Socialist" Aristocrats.

[budgie]

Logan you seem to beliving in a fantasy world where the cold war never ended. Canada seems to do just fine with a much more "socialist" system than America and they have free libraries, night school and the choice of which university to go to.

Communist Russia and the countrie that followed their model simply used marxist ideals (themselves poorly-conceived economic models) to win favour from the proletariat and help launch a dictatorship into power.

Free healthcare is not going to turn America - or any other place - into a giant Gulag. There are plenty of examples of modern functioning democracies, that while imperfect, are far more egalitarian in many ways than the USA because of their "socialist" policies. Most of America's allies in fact.

[Fiber]

Socialism is the new communism. A new word for fear mongers with sand in their clams. I wonder where these socialist countries are. I hear about them all the time, but I can't say they fit logans bill.

[budgie]

Socialism is the new communism. A new word for fear mongers with sand in their clams. I wonder where these socialist countries are. I hear about them all the time, but I can't say they fit logans bill.

That's because they don't. People like him like to fantasize about "socialism" being some new red peril, when in fact America is surrounded by successful examples - in Western Europe, Australasia and its own northern border. It's the hallmark of a modern state if it can effectively provide healthcare and schooling and retirement benefits for its needy population. This user-pays, survival of the fittest model belongs in the past.

[CPLHUNTER]

This matters because first of all:

It is not part of a Muslim tradition to bow except in prayer. Thereby making Obama look like an idiot.

Secondary some say that it makes him look subservient to the King...I agree b/c the king didnt not return the favor. Why? Because Muslims don't bow...did he think he was in England or something?

[Winger]

That's because they don't. People like him like to fantasize about "socialism" being some new red peril, when in fact America is surrounded by successful examples - in Western Europe, Australasia and its own northern border. It's the hallmark of a modern state if it can effectively provide healthcare and schooling and retirement benefits for its needy population. This user-pays, survival of the fittest model belongs in the past.

We are somewhat involuntary socialists here in the US and won't admit it. We all pay taxes into the pot to reap mutual benefits but we don't go as far as others.

Just a question of how much we want socialized. One must very careful when creating a social program because we all now it's almost impossible to undo. Throw in the fact that it is government managed and you are already starting out with a pile of waste. Also, throw in the fact that we are not allowed to opt out of these socialist programs and many here have a distaste for it due to lack of freedom. That, is a soft packaged tyranny. If allowed, I would opt out of social security for example.

Back on topic, need to cut the new POTUS some slack. For every flop or misstep he makes I could find just as many in our past Presidents.

[Winger]

This matters because first of all:

It is not part of a Muslim tradition to bow except in prayer. Thereby making Obama look like an idiot.

Secondary some say that it makes him look subservient to the King...I agree b/c the king didnt not return the favor. Why? Because Muslims don't bow...did he think he was in England or something?

He was so awed by being in the presence of his eminance, the King of Saud, that he buckled in reverance. OMG, we are so weak as a nation now! :roll: