Perry says Texas can leave the union if it wants to...

[RxOnco]

http://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archives/2009/04/perry_says_texa.html

..."Texas is a unique place. When we came into the union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that," Perry said. "My hope is that America and Washington in particular pays attention. We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, who knows what may come of that."...

I'm sure most will reply that the Civil War ended all possibility of this. However, I think it's all up to Constitutional interpretation and the overall will of the people. We saw today that the tide of anger is building. And, maybe, at some point in time, the time might come.

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm


Q: Doesn't the Texas Constitution reserve the right of Texas to secede? (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#TOP) [B]A: No such provision is found in the current Texas Constitution[1 (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#1)](adopted in 1876) or the terms of annexation.[2 (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#2)] However, it does state (in Article 1, Section 1) that "Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States..." (note that it does not state "...subject to the President of the United States..." or "...subject to the Congress of the United States..." or "...subject to the collective will of one or more of the other States...")
Neither the Texas Constitution, nor the Constitution of the united States, explicitly or implicitly disallows the secession of Texas (or any other "free and independent State") from the United States. Joining the "Union" was ever and always voluntary, rendering voluntary withdrawal an equally lawful and viable option (regardless of what any self-appointed academic, media, or government "experts"—including Abraham Lincoln himself—may have ever said).
Both the original (1836) and the current (1876) Texas Constitutions also state that "All political power is inherent in the people ... they have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper."
Likewise, each of the united States is "united" with the others explicitly on the principle that "governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed" and "whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends [I], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government" and "when a long train of abuses and usurpations...evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." [3 (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#3)]
Q: Didn’t the outcome of the “Civil War” prove that secession is not an option for any State? (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#TOP) [B]A: No. It only proved that, when allowed to act outside his lawfully limited authority, a U.S. president is capable of unleashing horrendous violence against the lives, liberty, and property of those whom he pretends to serve. The Confederate States (including Texas) withdrew from the Union lawfully, civilly, and peacefully, after enduring several decades of excessive and inequitable federal tariffs (taxes) heavily prejudiced against Southern commerce.[4 (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#4)] Refusing to recognize the Confederate secession, Lincoln called it a "rebellion" and a "threat" to "the government" (without ever explaining exactly how "the government" was "threatened" by a lawful, civil, and peaceful secession) and acted outside the lawfully defined scope of either the office of president or the U.S. government in general, to coerce the South back into subjugation to Northern control.[5 (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#5)]
The South's rejoining the Union at the point of a bayonet in the late 1860s didn't prove secession is "not an option" or unlawful. It only affirmed that violent coercion can be used—even by governments (if unrestrained)—to rob men of their very lives, liberty, and property.[6 (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#6)]

It bears repeating that the united States are "united" explicitly on the principle that "governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed" and "whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends [I], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government" and "when a long train of abuses and usurpations...evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." [7 (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#7)]
Q: Didn’t the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Texas v. White prove that secession is unconstitutional? (http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#TOP) [B]A: No. For space considerations, here are the relevant portions of the Supreme Court's decision in Texas v. White:

"When Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.
"...The obligations of the State, as a member of the Union ...remained perfect and unimpaired. ...the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union.
"...Our conclusion therefore is, that Texas continued to be a State, and a State of the Union."
— Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700, 703 (1868)
It is noteworthy that two years after that decision, President Grant signed an act entitling Texas to U.S. Congressional representation, readmitting Texas to the Union.
What's wrong with this picture? Either the Supreme Court was wrong in claiming Texas never actually left the Union (they were — see below), or the Executive (President Grant) was wrong in "readmitting" a state that, according to the Supreme Court, had never left. Both can't be logically or legally true.
To be clear: Within a two year period, two branches of the same government took action with regard to Texas on the basis of two mutually exclusive positions — one, a judicially contrived "interpretation" of the US Constitution, argued essentially from silence, and the other a practical attempt to remedy the historical fact that Texas had indeed left the Union, the very evidence for which was that Texas had recently met the demands imposed by the same federal government as prerequisite conditions for readmission. If the Supreme Court was right, then the very notion of prerequisites for readmission would have been moot — a state cannot logically be readmitted if it never left in the first place.
This gross logical and legal inconsistency remains unanswered and unresolved to this day.
Now to the Supreme Court decision in itself...
The Court, led by Chief Justice Salmon Chase (a Lincoln cabinet member and leading Union figure during the war against the South) pretended to be analyzing the case through the lens of the Constitution, yet not a single element of their logic or line of reasoning came directly from the Constitution — precisely because the Constitution is wholly silent on whether the voluntary association of a plurality of states into a union may be altered by the similarly voluntary withdrawal of one or more states.
It's no secret that more than once there had been previous rumblings about secession among many U.S. states (and not just in the South), long before the South seceded. These rumblings met with no preemptive quashing of the notion from a "constitutional" argument, precisely because there was (and is) no constitutional basis for either allowing or prohibiting secession.
An objective reading of the relevant portions of the White decision reveals that it is largely arbitrary, contrived, and crafted to suit the agenda which it served: presumably (but unconstitutionally) to award to the U.S. federal government, under color of law, sovereignty over the states, essentially nullifying their right to self-determination and self-rule, as recognized in the Declaration of Independence, as well as the current Texas Constitution (which stands unchallenged by the federal government).
Where the Constitution does speak to the issue of powers, they resolve in favor of the states unless expressly granted to the federal government or denied to the states. No power to prevent or reverse secession is granted to the federal government, and the power to secede is not specifically denied to the states; therefore that power is retained by the states, as guaranteed by the 10th Amendment.
The Texas v. White case is often trotted out to silence secessionist sentiment, but on close and contextual examination, it actually exposes the unconstitutional, despotic, and tyrannical agenda that presumes to award the federal government, under color of law, sovereignty over the people and the states.

[Hot Lips]

So he's trying to strong arm the United State of America to bend to his will or else?


The blog you quoted said they had the right to split into 5 states --- not to withdraw.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Maybe he would like Texas to still be part of Mexico?

[LaoSexMachine]

God Bless Texas.

[Bringer of Greater Things]

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp
Last paragraph.

Dude needs to learn his own state.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Very interesting, although I suspect, As HL suggests, it is probably a negotiating tactic.

My experience has been that Texans by in large are quite an interesting group :)
I very much enjoy their company.

Time for the second Lone Star Republic? or
Is this the first sign that the South will rise again?


Maybe he would like Texas to still be part of Mexico?

Hardly, that issue was settled at the Battle of San Jacinto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_San_Jacinto)

Seriously, Don't mess with Texas

[California Joe]

This guy is a ****head.

By the way, Vermont was an Independent Republic before it became the 14th state and they actually do have it in their Constitution.

[SOC]

Forget Texas, can the rest of us decide to kick California OUT of the Union? That solves the problem of a good deal of liberalism around here, and also gets rid of Californitards like Nancy Pelosi and her "lets help the illegals" tax plans.

[RxOnco]

...The blog you quoted said they had the right to split into 5 states --- not to withdraw.

You're right. That was the "agreement" set forth when Texas rejoined the union. However, that's where the grey area still resides. If you were to read down in the second part of the post, there's much to be deciphered by interpretation of both the Texas and U.S. Constitutions. Texas' Constitution states says that she is subject only to the U.S. Constitution. When the federal government fail to adhear to key elements such as the 10th amendment, it opens the door for other possibilities.

Do I honestly think it will ever happen? No. But who knows. If there's a state in the union that could accomplish it and survive on its own, it would be Texas. As a member of multiple organizations dealing with Texas secession, there's a steady increase in support. Both by the common man, and by those in state government. Bipartisan support for H.R. 50 dealing with the 10th amendment and reaffirmation of our rights should show that.

[einkrieg]

This guy is a ****head.

By the way, Vermont was an Independent Republic before it became the 14th state and they actually do have it in their Constitution.


It is in the Texas constitution.

By the way " KNOPFJÄGER " ?

Your a " Button Hunter " ?

Maybe you mean " Kopfjäger " or Headhunter.

[Migman]

As much as I love Austin, good PHUKING riddance!

[Kit]

Maybe he would like Texas to still be part of Mexico?

Texas joining Mexico will bolster Mexico's economy, making more up to speed with the American and Canadian economies. With that being said, NAFTA may evolve into the North American Union.

This is all a New World Order conspiracy.

[budgie]

Why is Texan independence suddenly an issue? I say good luck to them. One less red state. OH BTW, please return the nation's defence assets...

[PeterRJG]

Maybe he would like Texas to still be part of Mexico?

Some of the more cynical Texans I knew while living there will tell you it still is.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I feel Texas's pain. I wish NSW would leave Australia to.

[einkrieg]

Why is Texan independence suddenly an issue? I say good luck to them. One less red state. OH BTW, please return the nation's defence assets...

Not only do we have large oil and natural gas fields, we produce most of the refined gasoline, diesel and fuel oil for the other states.

If we go back to a republic, the price of your fuel will go up to more the $4 a gallon.
We ain't giving it away.

[PeterRJG]

I feel Texas's pain. I wish NSW would leave Australia to.

Dude, there'd be no Australia without NSW.

[RxOnco]

...OH BTW, please return the nation's defence assets...
I think it's safe to say that Texans constitute a very large portion of our nation's military. I think some type of transition of personell and equipment would be manageable.

[SOC]

If we go back to a republic...

Hey look at the positive side of this...free foreign aid!

[RxOnco]

Why is Texan independence suddenly an issue? I say good luck to them...

It's been an issue to many for quite some time. For years before the notion was chalked up to nutjobs and right-wingers. All the while, the silent majority remained silent. Well, you're seeing things unfold in Washington which are causing the silent to speak out.
Gov. Perry sees that this is an issue which many believe in. That's why he's trying to give it a little play. He is, afterall, running for re-election. He's seen some of the poll numbers for the likes of Larry Kilgore. Who, by the way, is doing quite well under a secessionist platform.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Dude, there'd be no Australia without NSW.

Well that would be a good thing. I mean NSW can't keep on paying for everything in this country.

[SpeedyHedgehog]

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/SpeedyHedgehog/hats-and-boots-432.jpg
Two Texans with the sh*t kicked out of them p-)






I actually spent time in Texas and love the place, but Texans CAN be awfully full of themselves.

[Kaplanr]

Not only do we have large oil and natural gas fields, we produce most of the refined gasoline, diesel and fuel oil for the other states.

If we go back to a republic, the price of your fuel will go up to more the $4 a gallon.
We ain't giving it away.

Not quite according to this. Don't write off NJ or Illinois yet.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm

Historically the Repblic couldn't support itself and the Confederacy couldn't defend it.

[einkrieg]

Not quite according to this. Don't write off NJ or Illinois yet.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm

Historically the Repblic couldn't support itself and the Confederacy couldn't defend it.

I don't recall seeing hundreds of miles of oil and gas fields in those states. A refinery without
the base stock isn't worth much.

[budgie]

Not only do we have large oil and natural gas fields, we produce most of the refined gasoline, diesel and fuel oil for the other states.

If we go back to a republic, the price of your fuel will go up to more the $4 a gallon.
We ain't giving it away.

Well at least Texas will be energy independent. Got my vote!

[Ordie]

Perry says Texas can leave the union if it wants to...
Good riddence

[sinophile]

Very interesting, although I suspect, As HL suggests, it is probably a negotiating tactic.


Exactly. Its a rhetorical device. Nobody with a brain took this seriously.

Texas has nearly dominated American politics since Lydon Johnson became majority leader of the Senate. Democrate and Republic administrations needed Texas oil money and influence. The state and its leaders are not going to let New York, Illinois and California determine their fate without a rhetorical and political fight.

But there will still be 50 states when its all done. Possibly more :-)

Texas budget surpluses and oil revenues essentially pay for California's deficits. The state is home to AMD, TX Instruments, Dell and other companies that matter. The US without TX is unimaginable.

Incidentally... if you want just a small taste of how powerful and important TX became under Johnson I recommend this interview of Johnson's biographer. His two books on the subject were awesome (but painfully long).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1729290374156984427&ei=C6zmSbX6JKSs-gGT6OC1Cg&q=charlie+rose+caro

[LEGEND]

I better visit Texas before a visa is required. ;)

[Hot Lips]

Exactly. Its a rhetorical device. Nobody with a brain took this seriously.

If he was looking to make others in America look upon him with a distrusting eye, his rhetorical device may very well succeed.

[brainplay]

Political ploy playing to the angry masses. Works well during the elections.

Of course this is perfectly akin to Obama playing to the masses about making an easier tax code. No one really takes either seriously.

Loving how the hard libs here are getting a hard on about the possibility of Texas leaving.

[BlackFlag]

This will happen in the future.

The Western US will also secede, and call itslf the Allied States of America. The map will look like this.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/IronCross1985/jerichomap.png

[panzrman]

Ironically enough, I just finished a fiction novel on this very subject. Authored by Tom Kratman, and titled " A State of Disobedience". Texas, under the heel of a more and more micro-managing, and police state backed Washington, rebels.

He also has a good trilogy on the rise of Islam and how Europe eventually finds itself under the control of the "Caliphate".

[kuttless]

I love my state.

[non]

I better visit Texas before a visa is required. ;) Flying in, okay. Driving? Plan on a very long ride.
Austin has some hot chicks.
Dallas has some hot chicks, if you visit the right gentleman's clubs. Alright, if you visit the right bars as well, but in both, suggest you lie about your income. Even if you make a million a year. Suggest say ten million. It's a metro-plex thing.
Houston has no hot chicks. None!
Assuming you agree that the only reason for leisure travel is hot chicks.
However, if you're interested in geography, flat, scrubby. Actually, scrubby pretty much sums most of it up.
Climate interests you? Well, if you're into sweating, then...
Feel free to call me at the Texas Board of Tourism, anytime, and don't worry. Lack of "visas" have been worked around for several generations.

[Lokos]

I feel Texas's pain. I wish NSW would leave Australia to.

The rest of Australia wishes that, too.

L.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

From the wiki

Australia's Dominant Economy

NSW has the largest economy in Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia), valued at $320 billion in 2005-06 or about 33% of Australia's GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP). This is one third larger than that of the next State and Sydney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney) alone accounts for almost one quarter of Australia's GDP.
The NSW economy is larger than each of the national economies of Hong Kong SAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_SAR), Thailand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand), Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia), Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore), the Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) and New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand).[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
NSW has a diversified and knowledge intensive economy. In Australia it accounts for:


46% of the Australia's finance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finance) and insurance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance) industry
39% of the property (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property) and business services industry
50% of the film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film) and television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television) production industry
33% of the communications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunication) industry
33% of the manufacturing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing) industry.

NSW has the largest manufacturing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing) industry in Australia, contributing $31.4 billion in 2005-06 to the State's economy.
The NSW Government has triple-A credit ratings from both Moody's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moody%27s) and Standard & Poor's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_%26_Poor%27s), proof of the State's strong economic credentials.
NSW is home to more than 65% of all Asia Pacific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Pacific) regional headquarters located in Australia as more than 600 companies recognise the State as the centre of Australian business.
About 600 contact centre companies operate 60,000 seats in NSW, 42% of the total for contact centres in Australia. Of all international multilingual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilingual) contact centres in the Asia Pacific, 32% are in NSW, testimony to the State's multicultural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural) strengths.
Employment in the financial services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_services) industry in Sydney is now nearly half the size of London's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London) and more than one-third the size of New York City's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City).
In Australia NSW is home to:


81% of Asia Pacific finance and insurance regional offices
80% of domestic and foreign bank headquarters
73% of property and business services regional offices
60% of manufacturing regional headquarters
76% of all information and communications technologies (ICT) regional headquarters
46% of information and communications technology (ICT) businesses
80% of multinational pharmaceutical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical) companies in Australia and 70% of pharmaceutical companies with regional headquarters
about 48% of the national market capitalisation of ASX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASX) listed biotechnology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotechnology) companies. These 41 companies have a market value of $11.65 billion.

[Lokos]

Australia's Dominant Douchery

NSW has the largest population of douches in Australia, estimated at 95% of the state's population, or about 70% of Australia's total douche quotient. This is five sixths larger than that of the next state, and Sydney alone accounts for two thirds of Australia's Gross Douche Product.

L.

[Kilgor]

NSW, run by a ex garbage man.

perfect for the role.

[Awatron]

Independant Texas would be great. I would love to visit it then.

"Have you been to the states?"
"Nah, Texas!"


Not much difference from today rofl

[LuKaZz]

I googled "Texas Independence" to get more information on the issue, the third site listed was this:

http://www.sipoftexas.org/

I don't know what to say now.

[1911-a1]

I support an independent Texas! I even made a flag.
http://uppladdning.com/uploads/1239871639453.jpg

[Awatron]

What do the 5 stars represent?

[PeterRJG]

I support an independent Texas! I even made a flag.
http://uppladdning.com/uploads/1239871639453.jpg

Kosovo is going to sue.

[commanding]

Seems if we Texans wanted to break away, we could just borrow some words from another great document...


When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


then list our causes.....which might be many.

[Raptus_regaliter]

Houston has no hot chicks. None!


Credibility hovering at or below zero.

[RxOnco]

Based on his description, I'm not sure if he's ever been to Texas.

Panzrman, I just ordered that book on Amazon. It looks like a pretty interesting read. Thanks

[California Joe]

It is in the Texas constitution.

By the way " KNOPFJÄGER " ?

Your a " Button Hunter " ?

Maybe you mean " Kopfjäger " or Headhunter.

"Knob Hunter" according to some other Germans on here.

Don't be a knob.

This should explain it. It's pretty damned funny actually.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=131684&highlight=Mookie+Rifle

[Eztyga]

I feel Texas's pain. I wish NSW would leave Australia to.

Fecking a...

[SBL]

That's pretty gay.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

What would the Texas passport look like?

[RxOnco]

What would the Texas passport look like?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:XfJ0Ri04AkkHxM:http://www.texasterritories.com/images/products/bookspaper/passport.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.texasterritories.com/images/products/bookspaper/passport.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.texasterritories.com/detail.asp%3FPRODUCT_ID%3DN41X01&usg=__eSGN_SxbvxjnqZIOzuT2Olo7CYk=&h=400&w=248&sz=34&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=XfJ0Ri04AkkHxM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtexas%2Bpassport%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den)

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:XfJ0Ri04AkkHxM:http://www.texasterritories.com/images/products/bookspaper/passport.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.texasterritories.com/images/products/bookspaper/passport.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.texasterritories.com/detail.asp%3FPRODUCT_ID%3DN41X01&usg=__eSGN_SxbvxjnqZIOzuT2Olo7CYk=&h=400&w=248&sz=34&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=XfJ0Ri04AkkHxM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtexas%2Bpassport%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den)

Neat, thanks. :)

[Martial]

Seems if we Texans wanted to break away, we could just borrow some words from another great document...

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


then list our causes.....which might be many.

Damn straight! I wish we would do it.

[Euroamerican]

This will happen in the future.

The Western US will also secede, and call itslf the Allied States of America. The map will look like this.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/IronCross1985/jerichomap.png

Good Luck with that! The Aztlan people have other plans!

[muttbutt]

Ironically enough, I just finished a fiction novel on this very subject. Authored by Tom Kratman, and titled " A State of Disobedience". Texas, under the heel of a more and more micro-managing, and police state backed Washington, rebels.

He also has a good trilogy on the rise of Islam and how Europe eventually finds itself under the control of the "Caliphate".
No they were not "good" in any sense of the imagination, just jumping on the BS Eurabia theory....oh and piss poorly written too.:roll:

PS we had Kratman posting on the AH.com site, he's a ****ing nut job.

[commanding]

Historically the Repblic couldn't support itself and the Confederacy couldn't defend it.

More or less true. Times have changed, I suspect Texas could now be self supporting. As to the CSA not being able to defend itself....that was in 1861-64, now the south has much more heavy industry. Also the CSA did a pretty fine job of defending itself, for those several years, and also had some of the best military leaders of the time.
Many if not all the USA military forts in Texas, were abandoned by the union soldiers at the outset of the War for Southern Independence.
If one had been there in person at G-e t t y sburg, where the CSA army had pushed deep into Union territory, and seen firsthand the CSA soldiers firing cannon and in rows upon rows charging headlong into the Union lines, I think the dismissive view of the south not being able to defend itself, might change as far as wording goes.
I am the proud great great grandson of a CSA infantryman from northern Georgia, who served with his two brothers, one of whom was KIA.

[deagle]

he might have something rolling there. too long have the local govts and federal govts been inept.

[LEGEND]

Flying in, okay. Driving? Plan on a very long ride.
Austin has some hot chicks.
Dallas has some hot chicks, if you visit the right gentleman's clubs. Alright, if you visit the right bars as well, but in both, suggest you lie about your income. Even if you make a million a year. Suggest say ten million. It's a metro-plex thing.
Houston has no hot chicks. None!
Assuming you agree that the only reason for leisure travel is hot chicks.
However, if you're interested in geography, flat, scrubby. Actually, scrubby pretty much sums most of it up.
Climate interests you? Well, if you're into sweating, then...
Feel free to call me at the Texas Board of Tourism, anytime, and don't worry. Lack of "visas" have been worked around for several generations.

Thats settled then, Austin and Dallas it is;)

[RxOnco]

Too many hippies in Austin. So if you like the grungy/sandals look, have at 'em. Dallas is ok...I guess. This poster is greatly misrepresenting Houston though. We've got plenty around here.

[Dominique]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, exactly what does this guy think he'll accomplish buy seceding from the US? Seriously, exactly what they think they would gain?

[RxOnco]

Independence. It's that simple. When we continue to support those who don't support us, it's time for a change. Many here in Texas believe that Texas should be managed by Texans...not a bunch of suits in D.C.

[California Joe]

Independence. It's that simple. When we continue to support those who don't support us, it's time for a change. Many here in Texas believe that Texas should be managed by Texans...not a bunch of suits in D.C.

Pal, I think you'll find the same sentiment pretty much everywhere in this country. I, like you, cringe when powerful sh*tbags like Nancy Pelosi make policy that infringes on my rights. But maybe a better solution is for the decent people to try to change things from the inside.

[Albatross]

If this goes down, i am moving to Texas. Who needs a sales/executive/contractor?

[Dominique]

Independence. It's that simple. When we continue to support those who don't support us, it's time for a change. Many here in Texas believe that Texas should be managed by Texans...not a bunch of suits in D.C.

How exactly is DC "managing Texas"? Are they determining who you elect as Governor, or to the state legislature? Do they make your state laws? appoint your school boards? Set your state taxes?

[RxOnco]

Granted, you've got me by a few years in age, but I've been hearing that as long as I can remember. Washington has become too distant a place to ever expect our elected officials to do what is right by us. It's all part of the stink of politics. I agree with you...don't get me wrong. I love this country, but I also love Texas. Unfortunately, I've come to the realization that this country's politics will never change. Therefore, I tend to support a different path for my kids' future. If it seems like I'm rambling...sorry...I'm trying to type in between patients.

[RxOnco]

If this goes down, i am moving to Texas. Who needs a sales/executive/contractor?

Just show that picture at the door...they'll let you in.

[Dominique]

Granted, you've got me by a few years in age, but I've been hearing that as long as I can remember. Washington has become too distant a place to ever expect our elected officials to do what is right by us. It's all part of the stink of politics. I agree with you...don't get me wrong. I love this country, but I also love Texas. Unfortunately, I've come to the realization that this country's politics will never change. Therefore, I tend to support a different path for my kids' future. If it seems like I'm rambling...sorry...I'm trying to type in between patients.

Quite frankly, that bullsh*t, and nothing more than a cop out. If you don't like the way things are going in DC, then make an effort to change them.

[Will Clark]

How exactly is DC "managing Texas"? Are they determining who you elect as Governor, or to the state legislature? Do they make your state laws? appoint your school boards? Set your state taxes?

What do you think this 10th amendment argument is all about? The federal government using coercion to push issues they shouldn't have control over where they want, instead of the state. And as Governor good hair said, this is just a complaint about the current trend, an official statement that we're moving in the wrong direction.

[commanding]

as to Federal tax money sent to D.C. versus federal tax dollars coming back to each state, check this link:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

think the most current info is 2005.
If I am reading it right, California was (in 2005) getting only 78 cents back for each dollar sent to D.C.
Texas got back 94 cents for each dollar sent. At least...that is how whoever figured out these numbers...and you know what they say about statistics.

[commanding]

One more thing...no one loves this country more than myself. I love Texas and I love the US of A. if you have 10 minutes to watch a neat video...try this one, about 10.5 minutes long, about government

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

[Mikhael]

Its time for all states in US to join European Union :hug:

[Albatross]

The single biggest thing that DC could do to stop this crap from happening is to put term limits on everyone in congress.

[MaverickCowboy]

Its time for all states in US to join European Union :hug:

NO






Over my dead body.

[MaverickCowboy]

The single biggest thing that DC could do to stop this crap from happening is to put term limits on everyone in congress.

agreed............

[MaverickCowboy]

Pal, I think you'll find the same sentiment pretty much everywhere in this country. I, like you, cringe when powerful sh*tbags like Nancy Pelosi make policy that infringes on my rights. But maybe a better solution is for the decent people to try to change things from the inside.

I like him too. and you too CJ i like the way you think.

but is it too late for that?

[RxOnco]

I completely agree with you. Will it ever happen? Of course not. That's what's so frustrating. How are the rules of the game ever gonna change when the main culprits are in charge of making the rules.

[budgie]

The single biggest thing that DC could do to stop this crap from happening is to put term limits on everyone in congress.


Always struck me as odd the President gets a term limit and Congress doesn't. Sounds like a decent plan. Do Governors and state legislators get them too?

[Hot Lips]

So everyone thinks it's never going to happen and Perry knows that.

Does it make it 10x more idiotic for him to have said it then? I think so.

He said that could happen if Washington doesn't quit "thumbing their nose at Americans", but that is essentially what Perry did to America by saying that.

[Ordie]

Regionalism is dead in America.

We toy with the idea of succession, but realistically there's more that binds us that divides us.

[commanding]

So everyone thinks it's never going to happen and Perry knows that.

Does it make it 10x more idiotic for him to have said it then? I think so.

He said that could happen if Washington doesn't quit "thumbing their nose at Americans", but that is essentially what Perry did to America by saying that.

Yours is an interesting statement......but "never say never".
I would never have thought the Soviet Union would break up like it did....but it did. Consider this...if one of the conditions of Texas joining the Union in the first place was that it could break up into five states....what if that happened? That would mean 10 senators instead of two! Lots of ways to change things. (by the way no, I don't think Texas would ever break up into five states, unless four of them were about a block square in the middle of Dallas.) :)

[matthew.manhorn]

Dude, there'd be no Australia without NSW.

NSW is Chinatown and is polluting the Australian white race :p

Melbourne > NSW anyday

[muttbutt]

NO






Over my dead body.
That can be arrangedp-)

[MichaelF]

Ironically enough, I just finished a fiction novel on this very subject. Authored by Tom Kratman, and titled " A State of Disobedience". Texas, under the heel of a more and more micro-managing, and police state backed Washington, rebels.

He also has a good trilogy on the rise of Islam and how Europe eventually finds itself under the control of the "Caliphate".

In years to come, you are going to look back on those two paragraphs and laugh.

[MichaelF]

No they were not "good" in any sense of the imagination, just jumping on the BS Eurabia theory....oh and piss poorly written too.:roll:

PS we had Kratman posting on the AH.com site, he's a ****ing nut job.

Well said. He's an idiot.

[Aeroflot]

Texas would make a good country.

[crazbadass94]

Remember the "Alamo"
But jk!! i'm live in TX but im never thimk about secede from the Union. Even they did it in 1861 :roll::roll:

[panzrman]

In years to come, you are going to look back on those two paragraphs and laugh.


Laugh about what? That I mentioned a few books of fiction, one in which had to do with the topic?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Why would term limits make anything any better?

[RxOnco]

I have to agree with Ron Paul in speaking of secession:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/20/ron-paul-defends-secessio_n_188893.html

"I think it is worth a discussion," said Paul, later in his four-and-a-half minute long video. "I think people should discuss this. Because right now the American people are sick and tired of it all. And I think the time will come when people will consider it much more seriously, is when the federal government can no longer deliver. That will come when the dollar collapses."

[SBL]

Texan separatists. The future is gonna be awesome.:roll:

[Bia]

Let em... we'll go to war... and win.

[RxOnco]

Well, if it were to come to that...you'd be dealing with "separatists" from states all across the south. Sound familiar?

[SBL]

Well, if it were to come to that...you'd be dealing with "separatists" from states all across the south. Sound familiar?
You're right, civil war sounds like a lot of fun.

[RxOnco]

You're right, civil war sounds like a lot of fun.

I neither condoned, nor suggested it...the poster above me did. So no, I'm not right. Nor did I say it "sounds like fun." I simply added the likelihood that if we were to go to war over an issue like this, it would likely turn in to another Civil War as many of the southern states share that same thoughts on this issue.

[el borracho]

Let em... we'll go to war... and win.

Why would we go to war over that? People in this country don't even want us to be in Afghanistan, never mind Iraq, so I fail to see anyone supporting a war against former Americans.

[chauncy republicans]

Well if more Americans would act like Americans this problem wouldn't exist, but since the vast majority of our population pisses on our highest law, it's inevitably necessary in order to take back America for those who she was intended for.

[Bia]

I neither condoned, nor suggested it...the poster above me did.


Why would we go to war over that? People in this country don't even want us to be in Afghanistan, never mind Iraq, so I fail to see anyone supporting a war against former Americans.

Holy fukc....


Facetious
http://www.merriam-webster.com/
Look it up fellas.








Well if more Americans would act like Americans this problem wouldn't exist, but since the vast majority of our population pisses on our highest law, it's inevitably necessary in order to take back America for those who she was intended for.
Dosent "vast majority" pretty much mean Democracy?


LMA0

[SBL]

I neither condoned, nor suggested it...the poster above me did. So no, I'm not right. Nor did I say it "sounds like fun." I simply added the likelihood that if we were to go to war over an issue like this, it would likely turn in to another Civil War as many of the southern states share that same thoughts on this issue.
You seem pretty excited at the thought of an "independant" Texas to me.

[el borracho]

I neither condoned, nor suggested it...the poster above me did. So no, I'm not right. Nor did I say it "sounds like fun." I simply added the likelihood that if we were to go to war over an issue like this, it would likely turn in to another Civil War as many of the southern states share that same thoughts on this issue.

In my experience living in the deep South, many had a "good ole days" mentality about the antebellum era, but today they are the most patriotic section of the country. I would have to say it would be highly unlikely that those same states (minus Texas) would band together again and rebel. The only place I would see that happening would be in Texas, or maybe the ultraliberal enclaves in the northeast and on the west coast (although they would probably attempt a political withdrawal rather than an armed rebellion). The pride/hubris Texans have for their state doesn't often include the rest of the south.

[RxOnco]

You seem pretty excited at the thought of an "independant" Texas to me.

Absolutely

[SBL]

Absolutely
I hope you like tacos.

[RxOnco]

Tacos are awesome! I could eat TexMex every day of the week.

[SBL]

Tacos are awesome! I could eat TexMex every day of the week.
That's not the point.

[chauncy republicans]

Dosent "vast majority" pretty much mean Democracy?


LMA0
The United States isn't and never was a Democracy. My 9 year old daughter just learned the difference between a Republic and a Democracy, maybe I can get her to PM you.

[RxOnco]

I must be slow to your attempt...what is the point?

[chauncy republicans]

I think he's implying that Mexico would absorb Texas.

[RxOnco]

Funny...April 21, 1836...Battle of San Jacinto.

[California Joe]

I read your posts in a Hank Hill voice.

[Dan2004]

I read your's in a Clint Eastwood voice.

I'm not sure why...:|

[RxOnco]

That's funny...I guess it could be worse.

[SBL]

I think he's implying that Mexico would absorb Texas.
At the very least it would wind up in the Mexican sphere of influence.

[RxOnco]

That's hilarious. You should have stuck to tacos.
Mexico has more influence now, than it would with an independant Texas. This being due to federal policy. Without government interference, we could regulate the border the way we see fit.

[el borracho]

At the very least it would wind up in the Mexican sphere of influence.

Not sure about that, Texas might turn into the shining star of the south of the border countries. Decades of immigration have created a unique Tex-Mex culture in which the Hispanic residents there are just as proud. Many Hispanic Texans have much deeper roots than Hispanics in other parts of the country, so there wouldn't be such a strong "viva Mexico!" sentiment from them. Also, from its experience in the Union, Texas would probably have a stronger and less corrupt government than its southern neighbor, which would make for a more stable political process and more effective law enforcement.

Of course, all of that is dependent on Texas seceding from the US...which will probably never happen.

[SBL]

That's hilarious. You should have stuck to tacos.
Mexico has more influence now, than it would with an independant Texas. This being due to federal policy. Without government interference, we could regulate the border the way we see fit.
Hmmm, ok.
Although, I'll be very interested in seeing what you would plan to do with those immigrants already living there, who you trade with, who you look to, to lend legitimacy to your new-found status, who you sign defense agreements with, etc.

[Bia]

The United States isn't and never was a Democracy. My 9 year old daughter just learned the difference between a Republic and a Democracy, maybe I can get her to PM you.No need for insults....yet.

I am quite aware of that "democracy VS Republic" semantics games.

One of GW last speeches in office... he said and I quote, "...this great Democracy of ours"

A psycho neo-con and GW worshiper in one of my classes always used that "We're NOT a democracy god dammit were a republic" argument often so I played the youtube vid of GW saying we have a great Democracy and the kid got all sad and speechless.

[el borracho]

Hmmm, ok.
Although, I'll be very interested in seeing what you would plan to do with those immigrants already living there, who you trade with, who you look to, to lend legitimacy to your new-found status, who you sign defense agreements with, etc.

Since America is on a liberal swing, if Texas withdrew now or in the very near future, the US would probably be its best partner.

And just so we're clear, I don't advocate this, I just don't think that given the economy and political climate the idea of secession is as far-fetched as others.

[chauncy republicans]

No need for insults....yet.

I am quite aware of that "democracy VS Republic" semantics games.

One of GW last speeches in office... he said and I quote, "...this great Democracy of ours"
The difference between two are crystal clear, it only becomes 'semantics games' when people have misconceptions of the two.

It only makes sense that Bush would talk up our 'democracy', because it would've helped get people to ignore the fact that his criminal government was ruled by law, and not the whims of a media manipulated majority.

[SBL]

Since America is on a liberal swing, if Texas withdrew now or in the very near future, the US would probably be its best partner.
I guess it would really depend on what sort condition the rest of the country was in. Things being as they are, though, I think the Government would be pretty reluctant to cede Texas. Opens the door for all kinds of legitimacy claims.
And just so we're clear, I don't advocate this, I just don't think that given the economy and political climate the idea of secession is as far-fetched as others.
I really don't know how likely it is. But I don't think it's very responsible to be publicly advocating a split in times such as these. It's divisive and counterproductive, as far as I'm concerned.

[el borracho]

True. I don't think we are anywhere near critical mass, but I look at secession like a married couple on the brink of divorce. If you want to leave, there's the door. I'm patriotic, but I don't believe in the "union or die!" 50 state concept. If a legitimate vote was held on the issue I feel the rest of the country should respect the results.

[SBL]

Imho, we're not that far off the mark as a country- at least in the structural sense. The original foundation is still there, and I think a good crisis might be what's needed to get the populace a little more grounded after decades of dizzying success. That's why I'm not a fan of such conjecture. It seems panicky and premature to me, and a great way to sow trouble when things really do get tough.

[RxOnco]

I don't think it's panicky at all...and things are getting tough for many folks. What's the government doing? Spending us into the grave and nationalizing everything they can get their hands on. That's the crux of our argument. It's not that we don't love America...it's just that we think we can manage ourselves much better on our own.p-)

According to one of the latest polls, the majority of Texans aren't on board with this idea...yet. We're not in the streets demanding secession...yet.
That's what Perry was saying. He didn't say what many misquoted him as saying. He simply said, if we stay on this current path, who knows what might happen.
Ron Paul took it a step further and said that the public sentiment towards secession will likely happen.

Either way, you're going to see a continued surge in Tea Party-like protests until something changes.

[SBL]

Well, I disagree.

[Jobu]

If this path toward socialism continues and the country crosses the threshold of becoming a nation I can no longer feel proud to be a citizen of, I would hope Texas would secede so my family and others could have someplace to go which might more closely resemble the USA we knew and loved.

The amount of liberty we have been losing as citizens of the USA over the past few decades is troubling.

[Kaplanr]

If this path toward socialism continues and the country crosses the threshold of becoming a nation I can no longer feel proud to be a citizen of, I would hope Texas would secede so my family and others could have someplace to go which might more closely resemble the USA we knew and loved.

The amount of liberty we have been losing as citizens of the USA over the past few decades is troubling.

Wait, are you saying that 100 days of Barak Obama has been more damaging to American's liberties and freedoms than say the . . . Patriot Act?

[RxOnco]

The Patriot Act was implemented with the intention of protecting the country. Let me remind you that we have yet to have another terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11-2001. I hear people cry about the Patriot Act but have never heard of anyone who has been directly and negatively affected by it.
The path Obama is leading us is a crash course with socialism. It's a form of government which goes directly against that of which our forefathers intended.

[Raptus_regaliter]

The path Obama is leading us is a crash course with socialism. It's a form of government which goes directly against that of which our forefathers intended.

Just as McCain would were he elected. The FIRE economy shot callers are pushing the pencils in Washington; it matters not who sits in the White House. Make no mistake, Wall Street is giving us an all out ass-pounding that we and our children will pay for indefinitely.

[RxOnco]

You're telling me that McCain would have pushed an agenda complete with socialized medicine, a rise in taxes (spreading the wealth), government control of the banks, government control of the auto industry, control of the census, etc...?

Call me crazy, but I just have a little more confidence in McCain. Not much more, but more still.

[commanding]

Disregard...somehow my latest post showed the australian tangent....and I wondered what happened to the texas part.

[MichaelF]

The Governor says one thing. The Legislature may say another.

It's the mood of the Legislature that determines whether Texas is going to make a play or not (it isn't, for several reasons). Given the composition of the Texas Legislature, I don't think we'll have to change the number of stars on the Flag anytime soon.

Short of a massive radicalization (and no, we aren't even approaching that yet) of large geographically contiguous chunks of the US population, Seccession is a nonstarter.

[deagle]

America would NEVER let that happen. or maybe Puerto Rico would take their place instead.

on the other hand, if texus seceded, other states will do the same. at least bipartisaship won't be an issue anymore...if you don't like a democratic state, move to a republican one, and vice-versa.

[Will Clark]

America would NEVER let that happen. or maybe Puerto Rico would take their place instead.

on the other hand, if texus seceded, other states will do the same. at least bipartisaship won't be an issue anymore...if you don't like a democratic state, move to a republican one, and vice-versa.

That's the way it's supposed to work. You don't like one state and you move to another that suits you better. The issue comes when enough power is pooled at the federal level and an ideology tries to enforce their beliefs on all of us. Some people would rather die than live in Texas, or California, or whatever; we don't need the entire country to be like one or the other. That's why it's so important to keep the feds out of it.

[MichaelF]

on the other hand, if texus seceded, other states will do the same. at least bipartisaship won't be an issue anymore...if you don't like a democratic state, move to a republican one, and vice-versa.

That falls flat, as States are generally only "Red" or "Blue" in the Electoral College. Almost all are "purple", with a (very) slight majority tilting the EC one way or the other. Especially if they have major urban areas along with major slices of rural area.

Outside the EC, it's not a winner-take-all system. No State is "Democrat", or "Republican".

The Texas House, for instance, has 76 Republicans and 74 Democrats. Hardly a domination by one or another. An Independant Texas would hardly be more "Republican", given the 51/49 split.

[Hot Lips]

Mexico has more influence now, than it would with an independant Texas. This being due to federal policy. Without government interference, we could regulate the border the way we see fit.


Many Hispanic Texans have much deeper roots than Hispanics in other parts of the country, so there wouldn't be such a strong "viva Mexico!" sentiment from them.

I have my doubts about the two sentiments above gelling well in that scenerio. Illegals survive here because of the residents who harbor, hire, and give aid to them.


It's not that we don't love America...it's just that we think we can manage ourselves much better on our own.p-)

I don't think you get to have it both ways, but since you have all the answers - what should be done to correct our financial situation, etc? The big snowball rolling down the hill gained good momentum under the leadership of a former Texas governor.

[RxOnco]

Hey, you'll find no argument here in saying that Bush spent like a drunken sailor. However, the current economic "crisis" which stems from the housing crash, all starts with what the Democrat leaders in Congress did to force lenders into high-risk loans. In my opinion anyway.

What would I recommend? Nothing. The economy is cyclical. We're on a downturn right now. I think if we would leave it alone, you might see some progression. What seems to happen every time B.O., or one of his economic Czars, opens their mouths with a plan...the stock market takes a dive.

There are two paths we can take on this dilemma. One, let capitalism do what it does best and let our economy recover on its own. Or, we can watch the government attempt to do what it's never been able to do before. And in the mean time, skyrocket the national debt and destroy the very foundation of what this country was built on.

[Jobu]

Wait, are you saying that 100 days of Barak Obama has been more damaging to American's liberties and freedoms than say the . . . Patriot Act?

Do you understand what "over the past few decades" means?

[Irons]

I am disappointed in Perry for not putting the phrase in the proper Texas vernacular. He should have said "As Texans, I can secede us from the Union if ya' 'ount too! I 'ount too. Ron 'ounts too. and by-Gawd, I believe me just might!" Kinky would have done it that way. I miss him.

I don't want to secede unless we get to keep Ft. Hood. If we can do that then I'm cool with it. Pissing the rest of the nation off is a Texas tradition. I am proud of Perry for at least trying. :)

[LineDoggie]

Aint gonna Happen, it's Illegal and the bulk of the Citizens wouldnt want to do it anyway.

[Irons]

Aint gonna Happen, it's Illegal and the bulk of the Citizens wouldnt want to do it anyway.

Yeah, but you could imagine how "awesome" it would be if we did, and then again, Texans are "crazy." Here's to hoping! LOL! :)

Maybe we'll just get in a big shoot-out again. At least that's entertaining; nothing else to do. A state has got to have something to occupy its time.