Another looted Chinese relic up for auction in France

[Shuimo]

Another looted relic up for auction

By Jane Chen | 2009-4-27 | http://www.shanghaidaily.com/images/Tango/16/input-mouse.png ONLINE EDITION
ANOTHER heritage relic looted from China is to go on auction in Paris, today's Wenhui Daily reported.

The nephrite Qianlong (1736-1795) era seal is part of a collection of antiques belonging to the French General de Vassoigne which the Beaussant Lefevre is to auction on Wednesday in Paris.

It is believed to have been looted from China's Yuanmingyuan, the Old Summer Palace, by Anglo-French forces during the Second Opium War in 1860. The general led the French troops in the attack.

According to the auction house's Website, the seal is made from jade and has two dragons entwined on a square base which is inscribed with the Chinese characters "jiu zhou qing an zhi bao" ("Peace and Tranquility in the Nation").

It is estimated that it may attract bids of up to 300,000 euros (US$394,068).

Earlier this year, Christie's auction of two looted Chinese relics from Yuanmingyuan sparked an outcry in China.

China tried repeatedly to dissuade Christie's from auctioning the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) bronze rabbit and rat sculptures. But the efforts failed.

Cai Mingchao, a Chinese antiques collector, won the February 25 auction with a bid of 31.49 million euros. But he later said he would not pay because the relics might not be able to enter China.

The patriotic collector decided to quit the auction community a month later because he said he felt ashamed to face his peers.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200904/20090427/article_399079.htm

http://image.phototime.cn/image4/middle/19760/a1/C18349750.jpg

[jetsetter]

It was war, get over it. Had China wished to keep the objects then they should have defended them.

[Roaming East]

China was too busy destroying their historical and cultural artifacts for anything silly like that. The Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution indeed.

[mas-36]

The spoils/trophies of war. I'm sure China never kept war spoils form other lands, but then if all conquered lands are "Chinese", it solves the problem then, doesn't it.

[Chulo]

China's view of history only applies when it benefits them

[Marmot1]

So how about exchange? Let's say for stolen... intellectual property?

[Eztyga]

I hear Rolls Royce will buy it and swap it for the rights to the Geely...

[Empulse]

China's view of history only applies when it benefits them

Agree. I bet if they'd have some of the many stolen Dutch masters, they wouldn't be so eager too have self-pity.

[dredger14]

Please give china back all her looted belongings!!!

TODAY CHINA LION!!!
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=48489&in_page_id=34
http://blog.cardomain.com/2008/08/02/beyond-hideous/

[Frutzel]

Please give china back all her looted belongings!!!

TODAY CHINA LION!!!

That hurtsp-)

[Atlantic Friend]

Cai Mingchao, a Chinese antiques collector, won the February 25 auction with a bid of 31.49 million euros. But he later said he would not pay because the relics might not be able to enter China.

Why, if he paid, would the relics not be able to enter China ?

[Empulse]

Why, if he paid, would the relics not be able to enter China ?

That's bull ****. He bid, but refused to pay as he deemed it unnecessary to pay for stolen art. The prick.

[Atlantic Friend]

It totally sounds like it, particularly since he was hailed by Chinese papers for bidding and not paying, but I'd like to know how far the BS goes these days.

[xav]

Shuimo why do bother posting this?

[Zoomie]

Shuimo why do bother posting this?
It's like asking him why do the Chinese enjoy brokeback snail hunting. They just do. p-)

[Shuimo]

Shuimo why do bother posting this?

Shuimo thinks this is an important issue for all of us to be reminded of!rofl

[Empulse]

Shuimo why do bother posting this?

This guy only posts about China, but never replies.

[Shuimo]

This guy only posts about China, but never replies.

Really?
You'd better read my postings more carefully!rofl

[BloodyTalon]

Shuimo thinks this is an important issue for all of us to be reminded of!rofl
All Shuimo is doing is reminding us how much the Chinese are like prissy little women on their periods! rofl

[matthew.manhorn]

Wow wtf this is just an article about an auction of Chinese relics yet I see 2 pages of China bashing comments.

France+West strong!111

[Zoomie]

Wow wtf this is just an article about an auction of Chinese relics yet I see 2 pages of China bashing comments.

France+West strong!111
Reading comprehension WEAK. :cantbeli:

[matthew.manhorn]

Reading comprehension WEAK. :cantbeli:

As a Chinese I think the attitude of this seller is better than the previous at least (for not meddling with Chinese politics as exchange etc..). Plus the Chinese government hasn't responded to the bidding yet, so I guess it's not a big deal in China

[Shuimo]

AllShuimo is doing is reminding us how much the Chinese are like prissy little women on their periods ! rofl
Actually, Shuimo just feels how much Westerners are like prissy little women on mumbling democracy and legitmacy!rofl

[Bugaboo]

Shuimo, works of art and artifacts made in one country and now being in possession in or by another Country are so common that the civilized world decided that the status quo will be maintained and the artifacts will not be endlessly shipped all around the world. The seal is now a French property PERIOD!

[wildcat]

If China want said items back, then they can bid and win them back, simple.

[Shuimo]

Shuimo, works of art and artifacts made in one country and now being in possession in or by another Country are so common that the civilized world decided that the status quo will be maintained and the artifacts will not be endlessly shipped all around the world. The seal is now a French property PERIOD!

Anything that is status quo doesn't mean that it is an acceptable situation and should forever remain so!

It is morally wrong to put looted relics for auction!rofl

[Bugaboo]

Anything that is status quo doesn't mean that it is an acceptable situation and should forever remain so!

Actually there is a good reason to maintain the Status Quo. Just in Europe we would have columns of trucks going back and forth between countries and each Countr would probably have to establish a "Ministry for repossession of Artifacts" and the entire process would never end.


It is morally wrong to put looted relics for auction!rofl

Why? People can auction their property and anybody can buy it. Including a Chinese citizen. The prick bidding for the two statues was just a prick. If he paid for the statues, they would be now hidden somewhere in China. (BTW Yves Saint Laurent didn't loot them, he bought them in France).

[Shuimo]

Actually there is a good reason to maintain the Status Quo. Just in Europe we would have columns of trucks going back and forth between countries and each Countr would probably have to establish a "Ministry for repossession of Artifacts" and the entire process would never end.



Why? People can auction their property and anybody can buy it. Including a Chinese citizen. The prick bidding for the two statues was just a prick. If he paid for the statues, they would be now hidden somewhere in China. (BTW Yves Saint Laurent didn't loot them, he bought them in France).

If that is case, it would be your europe's problem!

At the very outset, the relics were illegally obtained!

They would forever be in illgal state unless they return to their original owners!

[Chulo]

At the very outset, the relics were illegally obtained!


How were they illegally obtained? and who would it be returned to? The real owners? or to the Communist party of China?

[Bugaboo]

Dude, it happened a long time ago, therefore mature individuals and countries decided to let it be.

Your Country and Companies are stealing intellectual property NOW, so grow up. The artifact is in legal possession, returning to Status Quo Ante is a very bad habbit and virtually impossible to perform.

[gustav]

They would forever be in illgal state unless they return to their original owners!

You're right, now give us back all the patents that your country copied without the authorization of their lawful owners.

[Shuimo]

You're right, now give us back all the patents that your country copied without the authorization of their lawful owners.

Patens copying?
That is a joke!
The whole patent stuff is simply a trick by the west to exploit third-world countries!rofl

[Rilence]

For the love of god, quit being retarded.

[Bugaboo]

Patens copying?
That is a joke!
The whole patent stuff is simply a trick by the west to exploit third-world countries!rofl

You are a complete ****. People invested their intellectual capacity and funds to develop the patented stuff and it is their property! If it was not valuable your Country wouldn't steal it. Develop your own stuff and stop stealing! And in the process you might grow up too.

[Shuimo]

You are a complete ****. People invested their intellectual capacity and funds to develop the patented stuff and it is their property! If it was not valuable your Country wouldn't steal it.

For yr patents rights, third-world countries could not even afford drugs already mass produced by western countries to cure some diseases which would be essily afforadble if patents rights were removed!rofl

That is simply a ripping off by the west!

The whole patent thing is simply a scam!

[gustav]

Patens copying?
That is a joke!
The whole patent stuff is simply a trick by the west to exploit third-world countries!rofl

No thats something called private property. I know this must sound a bit alien to your commies ears but thats how we do in the West. :bash:

If property doesn't exist in your country why do you post this? You're not the owners of these artifacts then, this is a commie trick to exploit our western guilt! :roll:

[Shuimo]

No thats something called private property. I know this must sound a bit alien to your commies ears but thats how we do in the West. :bash:

If property doesn't exist in your country why do you post this? You're not the owners of these artifacts then, this is a commie trick to exploit our western guilt! :roll:

Just because it is the practice of the west, then that makes it legal and moral and correct??
NO!

[Bugaboo]

For yr patents rights, third-world countries could not even afford drugs already mass produced by western countries to cure some diseases which would be essily afforadble if patents rights were removed!rofl

That is simply a ripping off by the west!

The whole patent thing is simply a scam!

No, it is the incompetence of your Country to develop the same. Here when you own something it is your property and the rest of the world can STFU, including the Third World. You want it, you buy it.

[Bugaboo]

Just because it is the practice of the west, then that makes it legal and moral and correct??
NO!

You don't like West, you don't sell us your poisonous toys and other lousy stuff. Why don't you develop something better?

[muttbutt]

For yr patents rights, third-world countries could not even afford drugs already mass produced by western countries to cure some diseases which would be essily afforadble if patents rights were removed!rofl

That is simply a ripping off by the west!

The whole patent thing is simply a scam!ah so thats how to justify theft?, I'll have to use that if I'm stopped by the cops, "it's not my fault, it's yours for tempting me":roll:

[muttbutt]

Just because it is the practice of the west, then that makes it legal and moral and correct??
NO!Yes, it does actually......legally, the best kind of right, you want morals become a nun.

[Shuimo]

No, it is the incompetence of your Country to develop the same. Here when you own something it is your property and the rest of the world can STFU, including the Third World. You want it, you buy it.

R u suggesting some nations are inferior to other nations in terms of intelligence? So they deserve to suffer the agony of disease simply because they cannot afford your ripping off?
That sounds very Nazi!rofl

[gustav]

Just because it is the practice of the west, then that makes it legal and moral and correct??
NO!

Not only the west, this is the most basic thing man has ever known, try stealing anyone goods see that will happen.

And right now you're stealing like mad anyone's ideas, inventions, patents...

So yes stop whining about a theft that happened 100 years ago.

[Shuimo]

You don't like West, you don't sell us your poisonous toys and other lousy stuff. Why don't you develop something better?


We dislike and hate the bad part of the West, though we also like its good part!

[Shuimo]

ah so thats how to justify theft?, I'll have to use that if I'm stopped by the cops, "it's not my fault, it's yours for tempting me":roll:


NO!
It is not theft!

It shows the Chinese intelligence to do as well as you can!

[Rilence]

R u suggesting some nations are inferior to other nations in terms of intelligence? So they deserve to suffer the agony of disease simply because they cannot afford your ripping off?
That sounds very Nazi!rofl

If i invent something that is mine then it is my property. What is so hard to fvcking understand?

[Shuimo]

Not only the west, this is the most basic thing man has ever known, try stealing anyone goods see that will happen.

And right now you're stealing like mad anyone's ideas, inventions, patents...

So yes stop whining about a theft that happened 100 years ago.


There is no such thing as stealing your science and technologies!

They are nuetral, and anyone can make full use of them!rofl

[Bugaboo]

R u suggesting some nations are inferior to other nations in terms of intelligence? So they deserve to suffer the agony of disease simply because they cannot afford your ripping off?
That sounds very Nazi!rofl

You absolutely misinterpreted what I said. I think you are able to develop it, it is just hard work to do it. Stealing it is easier. And here we respect property. The patents are not owned by governments, they are owned by private companies and individuals.

ANSWER MY QUESTION: Why don't you develop it on your own?

[Shuimo]

If i invent something that is minethen it is my property. What is so hard to fvcking understand?


You inventing sth doesn't mean you can reply on that to rip off and exploit others!

Knowledge is open to all human beings!rofl

[RSone]

Patens copying?
That is a joke!
The whole patent stuff is simply a trick by the west to exploit third-world countries!rofl
China ain't exactly a third-world country. Well, for the biggest part at least.

And considering you guys aren't third world, Half the world would like you to refrain from raping, pillaging and stealing their intellectual property. You'll notice the 'Capitalist" West'll be a whole lot less pissed off if you actually would develop something important, indigenously.

[gustav]

There is no such thing as stealing your science and technologies!

They are nuetral, and anyone can make full use of them!rofl

Theres no such thing as stealing art.

Art is completely neutral, it belongs to mankind and anyone can make full use of it.

[Bugaboo]

You inventing sth doesn't mean you can reply on that to rip off and exploit others!

Knowledge is open to all human beings!rofl

Knowledge is, if you invest your private money into something, the results are also your property. But maybe it is just Chinese culture to steal...

GUSTAV!!!! +1

[RSone]

There is no such thing as stealing your science and technologies!

They are nuetral, and anyone can make full use of them!rofl

So, IF China would actually discover something beneficial for ALL of us, we could use it, free of charge? Somehow, i find that very hard to believe. Although, it'd be the communist thing to do.......p-)

[Rilence]

You inventing sth doesn't mean you can reply on that to rip off and exploit others!

Knowledge is open to all human beings!rofl

What the fvck are you even talking about? How am i ripping off/exploiting others by doing that? I'm not understanding what you are trying to say.

[Ordie]

They would forever be in illgal state unless they return to their original owners!

To this man, a decendant of the Qing Court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Youzhi

[Shuimo]

You absolutely misinterpreted what I said. I think you are able to develop it, it is just hard work to do it. Stealing it is easier. And here we respect property. The patents are not owned by governments, they are owned by private companies and individuals.

ANSWER MY QUESTION: Why don't you develop it on your own?

To assure, the Chinese r developing our own besides"copying"!

Read yr previous post once more!
The point here is not gov vs. individual!rofl

[Ordie]

China ain't exactly a third-world country. Well, for the biggest part at least.

The majority in the rural areas live in the 19th century.

[Shuimo]

China ain't exactly a third-world country. Well, for the biggest part at least.

And considering you guys aren't third world, Half the world would like you to refrain from raping, pillaging and stealing their intellectual property. You'll notice the 'Capitalist" West'll be a whole lot less pissed off if you actually would develop something important, indigenously.

China of course is a developing country!
On GDP per capita, it ranks behind 100-odd countries the world over!rofl

[Bugaboo]

To assure, the Chinese r developing our own besides"copying"!

Read yr previous post once more!
The point here is not gov vs. individual!rofl

WHAT? The point here is that the patents are not property of "the WEST", the patents belong to individuals or companies. And Chinese are stealing!

[Shuimo]

The majority in the rural areas live in the 19th century.

That is roughly true!

[Shuimo]

WHAT? The point here is that the patents are not property of "the WEST", the patents belong to individuals or companies. And Chinese are stealing!

The idea of patent rights advocated by Westerners and western companies is entirely wrong, you get it?:bash:

[Empulse]

The majority in the rural areas live in the 19th century.

Justed wanted to say that. Only the coastal areas are developed, and all but a world power. Not even gonna be one soon.

[Shuimo]

What the fvck are you even talking about? How am i ripping off/exploiting others by doing that? I'm not understanding what you are trying to say.

you may go through my previous posts from the very beginning to better understand what I am arguing with you guys here!rofl

[Empulse]

The idea of patent rights advocated by Westerners and western companies is entirely wrong, you get it?:bash:

If China would be as developed as the West, you'd most likely not talk this kind of crap.

[RSone]

The majority in the rural areas live in the 19th century.

I'm talking economy, purchasing power etc. There certainly is enough money present, and under control of the party, to engage in a 'Western' fahion of intellectual transfer. Obviously that wouldn't guarantee that the chinese won't burn you and reverse engineer the stuff, like they've done with the Russians, but it'd be a step.

[Shuimo]

So, IF China would actually discover something beneficial for ALL of us, we could use it, free of charge? Somehow, i find that very hard to believe. Although, it'd be the communist thing to do.......p-)
Yes, what Shuimo is trying to argue is tamtamount to that!

It sounds pretty commie, which you find hard to understand, but that is the only way thing SHOULD be!

[Bugaboo]

The idea of patent rights advocated by Westerners and western companies is entirely wrong, you get it?:bash:

No, it is not. Chinese steal what they cannot develop themselves. Property is property! If you don't agree you have no right to claim some artifacts auctioned in Europe.

[Shuimo]

If China would be as developed as the West, you'd most likely not talk this kind of crap.

Yes, how I wish China was a deveoped country right now!rofl

[Bugaboo]

Yes, how I wish China was a deveoped country right now!rofl

Easy, work, don't steal.

[RSone]

Yes, what Shuimo is trying to argue is tamtamount to that!

It sounds pretty commie, which you find hard to understand, but that is the only way thing SHOULD be!

Oh God, you're referring to yourself in the third person now? :roll:

By that token, where's China's own intellectual property? I'm sure Rolls would love to take a look at that Geely 'car' you guys have there.

[Shuimo]

No, it is not. Chinese steal what they cannot develop themselves. Property is property! If you don't agree you have no right to claim some artifacts auctioned in Europe.

NO!

It is all due to yr jealousy of the smart Chinese people, who can come up with the same technologies to compete with you!

[Shuimo]

Easy, work, don't steal.

No, it is not stealing!
It is tooth for tooth, eye for an eye!

[Rilence]

The idea of patent rights advocated by Westerners and western companies is entirely wrong, you get it?:bash:

No, it is not entirely wrong, you get it? *emoticon overuse*

[gustav]

Shuimo,

Theres no rightful owner of these artifacts as much as there is for the Egyptian mummies, or Dutch paintings or whatever else.

Apart from flaiming, you have answered none of these points.

[Bugaboo]

NO!

It is all due to yr jealousy of the smart Chinese people, who can come up with the same technologies to compete with you!

Jesus, you really are stupid brainwashed commie! Copying and inventing are two completely different things. Copying is not as intellectually demanding.

[Rilence]

NO!

It is all due to yr jealousy of the smart Chinese people, who can come up with the same technologies to compete with you!

They can come up with the same technologies because they copy most of it, genius. :|

[Empulse]

I'm talking economy, purchasing power etc. There certainly is enough money present, and under control of the party, to engage in a 'Western' fahion of intellectual transfer. Obviously that wouldn't guarantee that the chinese won't burn you and reverse engineer the stuff, like they've done with the Russians, but it'd be a step.

They are thieves, why buy it if you can steal it. The Russians have kinda bad experience with the Chinese.

[Shuimo]

Oh God, you're referring to yourself in the third person now? :roll:

By that token, where's China's own intellectual property? I'm sure Rolls would love to take a look at that Geely 'car' you guys have there.

China has surely developed its own technologes as well!
Do you really think the US can tell Chinese all the technical know-how to enable us Chinese people to send our manned spaceship into the space?rofl

BTW: it is perfectly OK for Chinese people to refer to one's name to refer to oneself when speaking in public!rofl

[Bugaboo]

No, it is not stealing!
It is tooth for tooth, eye for an eye!

We do not steal Chinese intellectual or other property. So no, it is not.

[Shuimo]

No, it is not entirely wrong, you get it? *emoticon overuse*

If not entirely wrong, it is largely wrong!rofl

[Rilence]

If not entirely wrong, it is largely wrong!rofl

Why, Shuimo, why is it largely wrong? Tell me.

[Shuimo]

Jesus, you really are stupid brainwashed commie! Copying and inventing are two completely different things. Copying is not as intellectually demanding.

Do you think every one can copy?
if you r really inventive, why r u afraid others copyng you?

[matthew.manhorn]

What's stealing "technology" anyway? Most technology didn't start out from 0 to 1. but from 1 to 100. You can say that the Russians stole STG44's technology, or the Israeli's stole AK47's technology, or the Americans stole the Mauser's technology, M1 abrams stole Leopard's technology, or Bill Gates stole Steve Job's technology etc,

"inventors" nowadays are very rare, they're either "refiners" or "craftsmen" of technology.

Weapons are very pragmatic killing machines, not artworks, the Chinese military is just seeking the best they can afford

Plus this is a thread about an auction of Chinese relics, not about reverse engineering.

Ignore that troll Bugaboo

[Empulse]

Do you think every one can copy?
if you r really inventive, why r u afraid others copyng you?

Because we are paying a ****load for developing these technologies, you fool.

[gustav]

China has surely developed its own technologes as well!
Do you really think the US can tell Chinese all the technical know-how to enable us Chinese people to send our manned spaceship into the space?

No, but they needed the Russians. Like for the nuclear bomb that you would have been utterly unable to develop all by yourself btw.

[Bugaboo]

If not entirely wrong, it is largely wrong!rofl

Yes, explain yourself.

Re third person: this is English language forum, only monarchs refer to themself in third person.

[Laworkerbee]

Do you think every one can copy?
if you r really inventive, why r u afraid others copyng you?

Your excuses for copying others creations are pathetic.

I prefer to call you what you are, thieves.

[Raptus_regaliter]

Technology is proprietary. If you can't understand that, you need to stop posting and open a damned book.

[Bugaboo]

What's stealing "technology" anyway? Most technology didn't start out from 0 to 1. but from 1 to 100. You can say that the Russians stole STG44's technology, or the Israeli's stole AK47's technology, or the Americans stole the Mauser's technology, M1 abrams stole Leopard's technology, or Bill Gates stole Steve Job's technology etc,

"inventors" nowadays are very rare, they're either "refiners" or "craftsmen" of technology

Plus this is a thread about an auction of Chinese relics, not about reverse engineering.

Ignore that troll Bugaboo

I am not troll, I try to post arguments without stupid emoticons.

To answer you: patents expire, when they expire the subject of the patent is free to use. AK47 wasn't patented, IIRC. The same goes for Stg44 I think.

BTW, this is result of the initial post. We simply don't agree that it is a looted property. Your friend started to post arguments that go against everything the Countries around the world agreed upon.

You guys post arguments instead of emoticons and we can have discussion.

[Shuimo]

Why, Shuimo, why is it largely wrong? Tell me.

This fact can tell you a lot (I already said it before):

Due to the existence of patent rights to protect you intellectual rights,
big western corporations use it as a powerful tool to land huge blatant profits from third-world countries, whose people can, take the bio-medi industry as an example, be made to suffer the worst agony of diseases that can be cured by medicines that r aleady mass produced or easilyy available in western setting!rofl

That is HUGELY WRONG!

[matthew.manhorn]

I am not troll, I try to post arguments without stupid emoticons.

To answer you: patents expire, when they expire the subject of the patent is free to use. AK47 wasn't patented, IIRC. The same goes for Stg44 I think.

BTW, this is result of the initial post. We simply don't agree that it is a looted property. Your friend started to post arguments that go against everything the Countries around the world agreed upon.

You guys post arguments instead of emoticons and we can have discussion.

Thanks, please forgive the statement that i've just made.

If you read the 1st pages of post you can see that it is the other MP.net members derailing that thread with off-topic anti-Chinese comments, not Shuimo himself

[Empulse]

This fact can tell you a lot (I already said it before):

Due to the existence of patent rights to protect you intellectual rights,
big western corporations use it as a powerful tool to land huge blatant profits from third-world countries, whose people can, take the bio-medi industry as an example, be made to suffer the worst agony of diseases that can be cured by medicines that r aleady mass produced or easilyy available in western setting!rofl

That is HUGELY WRONG!

You dont really understand that your country's current prosperity is a direct consequence of Western investment, do you? Without the West, your coastal cities would still be as the rest of your country: 19th century.

[Bugaboo]

Shuimo, you have to understand that a free trade has been a substantial tool to any progress. We realize it and therefore respect intellectual property.

There is no excuse to stealing proprietary rights. If the investment into the development is not protected, people will stop developing. Therefore patent rights are important tool for development and progress.

[Shuimo]

Your excuses for copying others creations are pathetic.

I prefer to call you what you are, thieves.
That is because we have different conceptions of stealing!

[Laworkerbee]

That is because we have different concceptiong of stealing!

A different concept? There is right and wrong, it's quite simple. You simply make excuses for the failings and weakness of your society.

[matthew.manhorn]

Again, please this is not a thread about intellectual property, i think there's already a thread about it. Criticizing other nation's deficiencies as a defense of your own argument will end up in flame wars.

[Shuimo]

You dont really understand that your country's current prosperity is a direct consequence of Western investment, do you? Without the West, your coastal cities would still be as the rest of your country: 19th century.

Plz don't beat around the bush!
Just come to face up to the phenomenon I listed here!
Is it right?
YES or NO? Answer plz!

[Empulse]

Again, please this is not a thread about intellectual property, i think there's already a thread about it.

At least you can admit it, in contrast to your fellow countryman, who seems to think it's perfectly okay to steal.

[Bugaboo]

Thanks, please forgive the statement that i've just made.

If you read the 1st pages of post you can see that it is the other MP.net members derailing that thread with off-topic anti-Chinese comments, not Shuimo himself

No problem, I just lost my temper with Shuimo. In western society property is sacrosanct. We learned the hard way that to respect someones property is a key to free society. I know a guy here who spent incredible amount of money in development of a product only to have it copied by a Chinese company in 2 years. He is not a multinational company or a government, he is a Czech guy
who worked extremely hard to build his own small company. Now his patent has been stolen by Chinese. And it wasn't some life saving medicine, it is electronics for entertainment. So the above excuses are completely pathetic!

[Shuimo]

Because we are paying a ****load for developing these technologies, you fool.
It that the reason for ripping off others?

[matthew.manhorn]

At least you can admit it, in contrast to your fellow countryman, who seems to think it's perfectly okay to steal.

I don't mind of how the Chinese military "steals" weapons as long as they're pragmatic. China's going to come up with their own weapons soon due to its industry unlike India. The QBZ, Type99 and J-10 are good examples imo

[Bugaboo]

It that the reason for ripping off others?

Who is ripping you off? What are you talking about?

[Shuimo]

Yes, explain yourself.

Re third person: this is English language forum, only monarchs refer to themself in third person.

English is already an internaitonal language, why should I stick to yr presumed way of addressing?

[gustav]

Again, please this is not a thread about intellectual property, i think there's already a thread about it. Criticizing other nation's deficiencies as a defense of your own argument will end up in flame wars.

A thread about what? A fvcking seal for christ sake! What will be the next international crisis about? A button of a cloth who is believed to have belonged to the emperor and was stolen two centuries ago during the infamous sacking of the Winter Palace. (Add Shuimo's favorite emoticons here.)

Honestly, grow a pair guys.

[Henry's Fork]

That is because we have different conceptions of stealing!

A true Chicom!

Its not stealing if we do it!

[Bugaboo]

I don't mind of how the Chinese military "steals" weapons as long as they're pragmatic. China's going to come up with their own weapons soon due to its industry unlike India. The QBZ, Type99 and J-10 are good examples imo

India doesn't steal proprietary rights and it is wrong? You gotta be kidding? They do decent business.

[Shuimo]

At least you can admit it, in contrast to your fellow countryman, who seems to think it's perfectly okay to steal.

Shuimo never considers that as "steal", seriously speaking!

[Nansouty]

They would forever be in illgal state unless they return to their original owners!


We'd gladly be doing that. But as said owners, and their descendants, have been butchered by the Chinese Communist Party, it would be undignified to return them to a China still in the grips of their murderers wouldn't it?

[matthew.manhorn]

A thread about what? A fvcking seal for christ sake! What will be the next international crisis about? A button of a cloth who is believed to have belonged to the emperor and was stolen two centuries ago during the infamous sacking of the Winter Palace. (Add Shuimo's favorite emoticons here.)

Honestly, grow a pair guys.

It's just a news reporting thread, grow up.

The other mp.net members are either feeding the troll Shuimo, or provoking Shuimo with their comments from page 1 -2. that' deraling this thread from a cultural property disucussion to an intellectual property one

[Bugaboo]

Shuimo never considers that as "steal", seriously speaking!

Stealing is stealing n every country I ever went to or citizens of which I encountered. Now I learn it is OK to go to China and take whatever I want, it is legal in China. What a paradise!

[Shuimo]

A different concept? There is right and wrong, it's quite simple. You simply make excuses for the failings and weakness of your society.

Of course it is a matter of right and wrong!
The patent rights issue is simply a worng idea promoted by western companies at the outset!

when you do sth to stop the wrong thing from happening, it should be called justice addressing!

[Shuimo]

We'd gladly be doing that. But as said owners, and their descendants, have been butchered by the Chinese Communist Party, it would be undignified to return them to a China still in the grips of their murderers wouldn't it?
I would not debate with you with your display of such words!

[Henry's Fork]

A thread about what? A fvcking seal for christ sake! What will be the next international crisis about? A button of a cloth who is believed to have belonged to the emperor and was stolen two centuries ago during the infamous sacking of the Winter Palace. (Add Shuimo's favorite emoticons here.)

Honestly, grow a pair guys.

No better way to cover up the Chicoms stealing their neighbors land and cultural relics for the last 60 years. Then to try and smoke screen their theivery with crying about some chinese relic taken long ago.

Its called a Chinese Shell Game.

[Bugaboo]

I would not debate with you with your display of such words!

Post arguments or go to steal or whatever you guys do there. He is right and you are wrong. Read my post about the importance of proprietary rights protection.

[matthew.manhorn]

No better way to cover up the Chicoms stealing their neighbors land and cultural relics for the last 60 years. Then to try and smoke screen their theivery with crying about some chinese relic taken long ago.

Its called a Chinese Shell Game.

What does this thread have to do with Chicoms? The Chinese government didn't even respond to this auction

Hush with your xenophobic comments

[Shuimo]

Stealing is stealing n every country I ever went to or citizens of which I encountered. Now I learn it is OK to go to China and take whatever I want, it is legal in China. What a paradise!

Read my thread more carefully!
I think I've made my argument clear enough!

It of course takes time for some of you guys entrencehd in western thinking to get hold of what Shuimo is arguing about!

[Shuimo]

It's just a news reporting thread, grow up.

The other mp.net members are either feeding the troll Shuimo, or provoking Shuimo with their comments from page 1 -2. that' deraling this thread from a cultural property disucussion to an intellectual property one
If you read carefully, these two things indeed are highly conneted!

[Bugaboo]

Read my thread more carefully!
I think I've made my argument clear enough!

It of course takes time for some of you guys entrencehd in western thinking to get hold of what Shuimo is arguing about!

It takes no time at all to understand you are advocating theft. I explained my POV with arguments about the importance of free trade and proprietary rights. You just ignore arguments and post only impossible propaganda.

[gustav]

It's just a news reporting thread, grow up.

The other mp.net members are either feeding the troll Shuimo, or provoking Shuimo with their comments from page 1 -2. that' deraling this thread from a cultural property disucussion to an intellectual property one

Its the Summer Palace btw.

But this is still nonsense, all the museums and private collections of the world are full of foreign stuff that were acquired by plunder and right of conquest. Things that happened centuries ago.

Whiny nationalism, thats all that it is.

[Henry's Fork]

What does this thread have to do with Chicoms? The Chinese government didn't even respond to this auction

Hush with your xenophobic comments

No you STFU with your Chicom appologies and lies.

[Nephilim]

Due to the existence of patent rights to protect you intellectual rights,
big western corporations use it as a powerful tool to land huge blatant profits from third-world countries, whose people can, take the bio-medi industry as an example, be made to suffer the worst agony of diseases that can be cured by medicines that r aleady mass produced or easilyy available in western setting!ok so if your country is so generous and wise(aSz), how come that most of the crap they copy from all those capitalistic corporations turns out pretty bad? eg. all those china-copy medicines had none effects or even made things worse? how come your country is somewhat intollerant against most western countries (eg banning various internet sites, etc etc.), but when it comes to YOUR demands your want to play buddy-buddy.
same deal with that friggen jade clunker. how can you think that the west should be tollerant towards your country, if your´e intollerant yourself?
did your country keep any war relics from any wars you´ve fought with any country and not returned it? i guess yes.

but as others said... chicom troll in its purest form..

[Shuimo]

It takes no time at all to understand you are advocating theft. I explained my POV with arguments about the importance of free trade and proprietary rights. You just ignore arguments and post only impossible propaganda.
Yr argument is premised upon a very shaky and wrong idea(intellectual property rights)!
If the underpining idea collaspes, all you argue about accordingly loses ground, hence wrong!

[matthew.manhorn]

No you STFU with your Chicom appologies and lies.

Yeah whoever's a Chinese is a Chicom amirite? I've learned a lot from you, thanks

[Shuimo]

ok so if your country is so generous and wise(aSz), how come that most of the crap they copy from all those capitalistic corporations turns out pretty bad? eg. all those china-copy medicines had none effects or even made things worse? how come your country is somewhat intollerant against most western countries (eg banning various internet sites, etc etc.), but when it comes to YOUR demands your want to play buddy-buddy.
same deal with that friggen jade clunker. how can you think that the west should be tollerant towards your country, if your´e intollerant yourself?
did your country keep any war relics from any wars you´ve fought with any country and not returned it? i guess yes.

but as others said... chicom troll in its purest form..
Oh, you should blame your customes office for importing shoddy products!
We Chinee also produce many top-quality stuff! I assure you!

[Nephilim]

No, but apprently that guy is.

[gustav]

Yr argument is premised upon a very shaky and wrong idea(intellectual property rights)!
If the underpining idea collaspes, all you argue about accordingly loses ground, hence wrong!

Your argument is premised upon a very shaky and wrong idea indeed.

That every artifacts that belonged to another country and that now sit in another country's museum or private collection should be returned to their country of origin.

No need to prove it completely stupid.

[Shuimo]

Yeah whoever's a Chinese is a Chicom amirite? I've learned a lot from you, thanks

whatever they call the Chinese, it is up to them!

But the reality of a fast changing China will compel them to think about the Chinese again one time or another!

[Henry's Fork]

Yeah whoever's a Chinese is a Chicom amirite? I've learned a lot from you, thanks

You sure are a bright one. :roll:

[matthew.manhorn]

f*ck this thread, I'm off to studying so I can buy an imperial seal when the older.

[SBL]

ah so thats how to justify theft?, I'll have to use that if I'm stopped by the cops, "it's not my fault, it's yours for tempting me":roll:
That's actually a pretty accurate representation of Chinese morality.

[Shuimo]

Your argument is premised upon a very shaky and wrong idea indeed.

That every artifacts that belonged to another country and that now sit in another country's museum or private collection should be returned to their country of origin.

No need to prove it completely stupid.

I don't thin yr argu is worthy of serious attention!

[Chulo]

LOL. if the chinese in this tread are representative of what all Chinese think, then we can see the large disconnect/difference in concept of "Stealing" "Property rights" and "Individual property"

[Shuimo]

That's actually a pretty accurate representation of Chinese morality.

You misunderstand the Chinese!

[matthew.manhorn]

You sure are a bright one. :roll:

I'm not officially a CCP member, but I don't have that much of a resentment towards the CCP either. I guess the term "Chicom sympathizer" applies to me, but not Chicom! :)

[Laworkerbee]

Of course it is a matter of right and wrong!
The patent rights issue is simply a worng idea promoted by western companies at the outset!

when you do sth to stop the wrong thing from happening, it should be called justice addressing!

No, its just called stealing and pathetic excuses.

[Bugaboo]

Yr argument is premised upon a very shaky and wrong idea(intellectual property rights)!
If the underpining idea collaspes, all you argue about accordingly loses ground, hence wrong!

The trick is the fundamental idea is not wrong. BTW, this is not an argument. If you want to prove it wrong, post arguments why it is wrong. Saying "It is wring" is not an argument. Well, maybe in Chinese.

[Nephilim]

Oh, you should blame your customes office for importing shoddy products!
We Chinee also produce many top-quality stuff! I assure you!

no i blame the EU for being greedy asses importing such crap things your country produces.

some stuff might be good you folk produce over there, but high-demand things are just made hastily without any morale just to gain profit.

[matthew.manhorn]

That's actually a pretty accurate representation of Chinese morality.

Humans don't have moralities. Yet China's human population is the world's largest.

So calculate :)

[Shuimo]

No, its just called stealing and pathetic excuses.

That is just yr sense of morality!

[maoddd]

roflroflroflrofl

[Bugaboo]

That is just yr sense of morality!

Well, it is not, as you might notice all the non-Chinese posters in this thread come from different Countries and yet share basically identical values.

[gustav]

I don't thin yr argu is worthy of serious attention!

Coming from a guy who never goes beyond one liners and rofl .

I take it as a compliment.

[Nansouty]

That is just yr sense of morality!


Well, at any rate, you are a perfect illustration why China needs to be actively contained by the West, and alliances need to be forged and strengthened to do so.

[Shuimo]

no i blame the EU for being greedy asses importing such crap things your country produces.

some stuff might be good you folk produce over there, but high-demand things are just made hastily without any morale just to gain profit.

Partly true!

You don't have to paint such a black-and-white pic of China!

Just remember: China today is making tremendous headway towards being a prosperous country!

[Nephilim]

ok so you call us thiefes as we took that jade rock maaaaany mooons ago..
and we call you thiefes for copying our technology.


i think thats just fair.


You don't have to paint such a black-and-white pic of China!

i´m not. i´m pretty open minded about countries and culture.. but the current politics are pretty obvious..

[SBL]

You misunderstand the Chinese!
It's possible, I suppose. It is a fact, though that in the far east, morality has traditionally been dictated by context: "I did not intend to get drunk, but you offered me drink and made me get drunk, so I am innocent".

[Shuimo]

The trick is the fundamental idea is not wrong. BTW, this is not an argument. If you want to prove it wrong, post arguments why it is wrong. Saying "It is wring" is not an argument. Well, maybe in Chinese.

No, I just listed a most powerful real life case to be sufficient to overthrow the ratioanlity of your beloved patent rights protection!rofl

[Shuimo]

Well, at any rate, you are a perfect illustration why China needs to be actively contained by the West, and alliances need to be forged and strengthened to do so.

Truth can be in the hands of only a few people or nations!

[Shuimo]

Coming from a guy who never goes beyond one liners and rofl .

I take it as a compliment.

truth and reason is not tantamount to lengthy words!

[Ordie]

LOL. if the chinese in this tread are representative of what all Chinese think, then we can see the large disconnect/difference in concept of "Stealing" "Property rights" and "Individual property"

The majority of Chinese are too busy to care about ancient relics.

Shimo and the neo-nationalist are only bringing this news items to feed thier collective victimization attitude of the shamful events of the 19th century.

But the nationalist don't give a crap about the preservation of centuries old neighborhoods and homes in major cities or how trashy and neglected historical sites such as the Great Wall in Badaling.

Or give a crap about the majority of China's relics being kept in Taipei.

Given the amount of interest and amount of money in such things, I would not be surprised if common Chinese are now rummaging through thier attics and digging up thier fields to sell antiques to foriegners.

[Henry's Fork]

I'm not officially a CCP member, but I don't have that much of a resentment towards the CCP either. I guess the term "Chicom sympathizer" applies to me, but not Chicom! :)

Well i have a ton of resentment toward the CCP, not only did they kill a family member of mine in Korea, they killed and enslaved many of my Tibetan friends families. So you are going to have to excuse me if i have no love toward the CCP and its supporters.

[Laworkerbee]

China should be sold or given only faulty designs so they can learn the hard way about stealing. p-)

[matthew.manhorn]

ok so you call us thiefes as we took that jade rock maaaaany mooons ago..
and we call you thiefes for copying our technology.


i think thats just fair.



i´m not. i´m pretty open minded about countries and culture.. but the current politics are pretty obvious..

As a Chinese I don't see looters from the palace as being thieves due to the cultural revolution and atrocities from the Ching Dynasty.

[Shuimo]

Well, it is not, as you might notice all the non-Chinese posters in this thread come from different Countries and yet share basically identical values.

That is becauseChina is the only country in the world that is not westernized!
China has been used to its uniqueness for thousands of years!

[Shuimo]

China should be sold or given only faulty designs so they can learn the hard way about stealing. p-)

The Chinese have a sharp eye for the jade!

[Nephilim]

That is becauseChina is the only country in the world that is not westernized!

thats what YOU think p-)

[gustav]

Shimo and the neo-nationalist are only bringing this news items to feed thier collective victimization attitude of the shamful events of the 19th century.

It is till a shame that the biggest country in the world is given a bad image in this forum and others (yes I saw him post the same nationalistic crap in other forums) because of this jerk.

[wildcat]

would not this relic belong to Taiwan seeing it is the old/real Chinese government.

[Laworkerbee]

The Chinese have a sharp eye for the jade!

You have a sharp eye for ****, that's about it.

[Shuimo]

Well i have a ton of resentment toward the CCP, not only did they kill a family member of mine in Korea, they killed and enslaved many of my Tibetan friends families. So you are going to have to excuse me if i have no love toward the CCP and its supporters.
How could we believe yr claims?

[matthew.manhorn]

Well i have a ton of resentment toward the CCP, not only did they kill a family member of mine in Korea, they killed and enslaved many of my Tibetan friends families. So you are going to have to excuse me if i have no love toward the CCP and its supporters.

Guess the CCP's actions vary upon individuals then.

I was raised in Hong Kong as a Chinese American so I thank the PRC for not infringing on Hong Kong's laws and freedom of speech while stationing troops to protect Hong Kong. The CCP's disgusts me yes, but I don't have that much of a resentment towards it.

Sorry for your family member and your Tibetan friend. I apologize for what I've said to you. I, in no way support the CCP's atrocities.

[Shuimo]

You have a sharp eye for ****, that's about it.

If **** means high-tech!

[SBL]

That is becauseChina is the only country in the world that is not westernized!
China has been used to its uniqueness for thousands of years!
That is a load of bullsh*t. :roll:

[Bugaboo]

That is becauseChina is the only country in the world that is not westernized!
China has been used to its uniqueness for thousands of years!

All right, don't spoil your uniqueness by using foreign technology, for pete's sake!

[Shuimo]

thats what YOU think p-)

The majority of Chinese would tell you so!

[SBL]

Humans don't have moralities. Yet China's human population is the world's largest.

So calculate :)
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Shuimo]

All right, don't spoil your uniqueness by using foreign technology, for pete's sake!
technology is innocent!
Ideology is colored!

[matthew.manhorn]

would not this relic belong to Taiwan seeing it is the old/real Chinese government.

No, since the whole world doesn't recognize the ROC but the PRC instead.

In fact Hong Kong is the oldest Chinese government (PRC was created in 1949, and the ROC was created after the fall of Ching Dynasty)

[Bugaboo]

technology is innocent!
Ideology is colored!

China sure is "special".

[Ordie]

That is becauseChina is the only country in the world that is not westernized!
China has been used to its uniqueness for thousands of years!

Bull crap!!!!

I guess you haven't been in Hohai District or 798 Art Zone lately.
Or at the KFC at Qianmen filled with Chinese patrons.

[Jiggy]

You have a sharp eye for ****, that's about it.

lmaooo.

anyway this is sad cause i'm pretty much sure alotta of chinese people have the same mindset as shuimo, especially the ccp.

[LazerLordz]

For yr patents rights, third-world countries could not even afford drugs already mass produced by western countries to cure some diseases which would be essily afforadble if patents rights were removed!rofl

That is simply a ripping off by the west!

The whole patent thing is simply a scam!

Your dependency theory holds little water.

In any case, who's to say Chinese empires didn't have spoils of war from foreign lands...say Dai Viet?:roll:

[Shuimo]

Guess the CCP's actions vary upon individuals then.

I was raised in Hong Kong as a Chinese American so I thank the PRC for not infringing on Hong Kong's laws and freedom of speech while stationing troops to protect Hong Kong. The CCP's disgusts me yes, but I don't have that much of a resentment towards it.

Sorry for your family member and your Tibetan friend. I apologize for what I've said to you. I, in no way support the CCP's atrocities.

Not PRC, HK is part of PRC!
You can say the Central Gov!

[matthew.manhorn]

lmaooo.

anyway this is sad cause i'm pretty much sure alotta of chinese people have the same mindset as shuimo, especially the ccp.

What a way to generalize Chinese people, learn some Chinese and travel to China / Chinese internet forums

[Ordie]

The majority of Chinese would tell you so!

How do you know? Is there a poll?

oops...

my bad, polls are too democratic for China.

[Henry's Fork]

Given the amount of interest and amount of money in such things, I would not be surprised if common Chinese are now rummaging through thier attics and digging up thier fields to sell antiques to foriegners.

The Nepalese lady that runs one of the Asian antique stores on Solano Ave here in Berkeley does that exact same thing. Travels to parts of Asia and spreads the word around a local small market that shes looking for old junk. You should see some of the stuff she has brought back.

[Shuimo]

Bull crap!!!!

I guess you haven't been in Hohai District or 798 Art Zone lately.
Or at the KFC at Qianmen filled with Chinese patrons.

Houhai has long fallen out of popularity with us chic native Beijingers!
798 Art Zone seems to be losing popularity as well!

You know what is the hottest place among trendy Beijingers?

it is Nanluoguxiang, Gulou Dongdajie!rofl


Superficial things can be misleading, ordie!

The Chinese are good at absorbing foreign things, even Buddhism is not nattive to Chinese culture!

[matthew.manhorn]

The majority of Chinese are too busy to care about ancient relics.

Shimo and the neo-nationalist are only bringing this news items to feed thier collective victimization attitude of the shamful events of the 19th century.

But the nationalist don't give a crap about the preservation of centuries old neighborhoods and homes in major cities or how trashy and neglected historical sites such as the Great Wall in Badaling.

Or give a crap about the majority of China's relics being kept in Taipei.

Given the amount of interest and amount of money in such things, I would not be surprised if common Chinese are now rummaging through thier attics and digging up thier fields to sell antiques to foriegners.

x2 Words of wisdom Ordie! But the Imperial seal is heck of a nice genuine relic, those so called "antiques" that the Chinese are selling in Beijing are nothing but fakes (yeah typical Chinese stereotype) to rip off western tourists anyway

[Shuimo]

How do you know? Is there a poll?

oops...

my bad, polls are too democratic for China.

That is the advantage of Shuiomo being a native Chinese!rofl

[Ordie]

The Nepalese lady that runs one of the Asian antique stores on Solano Ave here in Berkeley does that exact same thing. Travels to parts of Asia and spreads the word around a local small market that shes looking for old junk. You should see some of the stuff she has brought back.

I find it very ironic that authentic items such as antiques commands a better profit margin than massed copied goods from China.

[SBL]

Houhai has long fallen out of popularity with us chic native Beijingers!
798 Art Zone seems to be losing popularity as well!

You know what is the hottest place among trendy Beijingers?

it is Nanluoguxiang, Gulou Dongdajie!rofl


Superficial things can be misleading, ordie!

The Chinese are good at absorbing foreign things, even Buddhism is not nattive to Chinese culture!

You managed to overlook the majority of Middle Eastern nations as well as your own neighbor, Japan, the Nepalese, etc.

[Shuimo]

x2 Words of wisdom Ordie! But the Imperial seal is heck of a nice relic, Qianglong is one of my favorite emperors.

Qianlong is the crappiest man of letter!

[Shuimo]

lmaooo.

anyway this is sad cause i'm pretty much sure alotta of chinese people have the same mindset as shuimo, especially the ccp.

You are right!
Shuimo is actually already not that representative, given Shuimo's wide scope of familiarity and knowledge of western thinking and ideas!

[Ordie]

That is the advantage of Shuiomo being a native Chinese!rofl

I've known and met many more Chinese who are more humble and intelligent than you. Therefore, it is not the case that you speak on thier behalf.

[matthew.manhorn]

Qianlong is the crappiest man of letter!

One of the better emperors overall in Chinese history, of course he's bad in comparison with his grandfather and father.

[Rilence]

You are right!
Shuimo is actually already not that representative, given Shuimo's wide scope of familiarity and knowledge of western thinking and ideas!

Now you're just being silly....

[Shuimo]

I've known and met many more Chinese who are more humble and intelligent than you. Therefore, it is not the case that you speak on thier behalf.


Shuimo doesn't claim to be the smartest guy of China!
That is amzing, Ordie?

[Shuimo]

Now you're just being silly....

Shuimo knows that he knows!

[Jiggy]

What a way to generalize Chinese people, learn some Chinese and travel to China / Chinese internet forums

lol maybe i'll travel there some day, and what i said was more of a fact than a generalization.

shuimo is just one of many chicom trolls who passed through here and other forums.

and i have been through some chinese forums, and i can assure you shuimo isn't exactly "one of a kind", whats funny is some chinese americans see things the way he do.

but i'm sure you already know that.

[Shuimo]

lol maybe i'll travel there some day, and what i said was more of a fact than a generalization.

shuimo is just one of many chicom trolls who passed through here and other forums.

and i have been through some chinese forums, and i can assure you shuimo isn't exactly "one of a kind", whats funny is some chinese americans see things the way he do.


You know chinese language?

[Shuimo]

BTW, Shuimo never mistakes humbility for inteliigence!

[Rilence]

BTW, Shuimo never mistakes humbility for inteliigence!

Shuimo prefers pepsi, Shuimo no like mountain dew.

[Shuimo]

Shuimo, you have to understand that a free trade has been a substantial tool to any progress. We realize it and therefore respect intellectual property.

There is no excuse to stealing proprietary rights. If the investment into the development is not protected, people will stop developing. Therefore patent rights are important tool for development and progress.

What I say is this : The west-defined paternt rights are injust and unfair!

[Shuimo]

No problem, I just lost my temper with Shuimo. In western society property is sacrosanct. We learned the hard way that to respect someones property is a key to free society. I know a guy here who spent incredible amount of money in development of a product only to have it copied by a Chinese company in 2 years. He is not a multinational company or a government, he is a Czech guy
who worked extremely hard to build his own small company. Now his patent has been stolen by Chinese. And it wasn't some life saving medicine, it is electronics for entertainment. So the above excuses are completely pathetic!

Sth sacrosanct is no passport to being error-free nor truth!

[Ordie]

What I say is this : The west-defined paternt rights are injust and unfair!

If we didn't have patent laws, there would be no innovation.

[Shuimo]

Its the Summer Palace btw.

But this is still nonsense, all the museums and private collections of the world are full of foreign stuff that were acquired by plunder and right of conquest. Things that happened centuries ago.

Whiny nationalism, thats all that it is.
150 centuries are not a long period of time given China has 5000 years of civilization!

[Shuimo]

If we didn't have patent laws, there would be no innovation.

Innovation doesn't have to come at the price of making people greedy!

[Bugaboo]

What I say is this : The west-defined paternt rights are injust and unfair!

They made the West what it is. It would work for you too, stealing won't

[Bugaboo]

Sth sacrosanct is no passport to being error-free nor truth!

Stealing doesn't make you smart. It makes you pathetic loser.

You speak of Chinese ancient civlization, well, you got stuck somewhere on the way, dude.

[Shuimo]

They made the West what it is. It would work for you too, stealing won't
We don't want to be , and won't be, another version of what West is like, simly because the flaw-ridden Western society and civilization isby no means the ultimate version of human developemnt!

[Shuimo]

Stealing doesn't make you smart. It makes you pathetic loser.

You speak of Chinese ancient civlization, well, you got stuck somewhere on the way, dude.


We find nothing wrong with copying!

Chinese civilization is in a process of rejuvination, ok?

[Bugaboo]

We don't want to be , and won't be, another version of what West is like, simly because the flaw-ridden Western society and civilization isby no means the ultimate version of human developemnt!

You are a nation that lives of others' hard work. You have no idea what the West is like. You steal from others because you are uncivilized. Theft is uncivilized. Maybe you need another 5000 years of "your civilization" to get where west has gotten in 100 years. Good luck.

[SBL]

We don't want to be , and won't be, another version of what West is like, simly because the flaw-ridden Western society and civilization isby no means the ultimate version of human developemnt!
I can't say China has done a real bang-up job of running things, either. Given your history, and the present way you conduct business, I really have to wonder what the Chinese are offering that's so special?

[Shuimo]

You are a nation that lives of others' hard work. You have no idea what the West is like. You steal from others because you are uncivilized. Theft is uncivilized. Maybe you need another 5000 years of "your civilization" to get where west has gotten in 100 years. Good luck.


The opposite is true!
The west is exploiting third-world countries through lying on patent rights lazily!

[Bugaboo]

We find nothing wrong with copying!

Chinese civilization is in a process of rejuvination, ok?

If you mean "rejuvenation"... look where it leads.

[Shuimo]

I can't say China has done a real bang-up job of running things, either. Given your history, and the present way you conduct business, I really have to wonder what the Chinese are offering that's so special?

The Chinese philosophy and Chinesel literature and Chinese way of life!

[SBL]

The Chinese philosophy and Chinesel literature and Chinese way of life!
It's certainly proven itself in the past.:roll:

[Shuimo]

If you mean "rejuvenation"... look where it leads.
Let us look at China in 30 years' time!

[Shuimo]

It's certainly proven itself in the past.:roll:

Once more, history will test the Chinese wisdom!

[Bugaboo]

The opposite is true!
The west is exploiting third-world countries through lying on patent rights lazily!

Are you quoting some Party propaganda? This demonstrates you have no idea what civilization is.

[LineDoggie]

Tough ****, you lost it and There are in Chinese Museums American/British/Canadian/Australian/Korean items looted or captured in Wars

I dont see the PRC in any rush to return them. I do See the PRC in a rush to destroy items like this during the Cultural Revolution, & Great Leap Forward

[Shuimo]

Are you quoting some Party propaganda? This demonstrates you have no idea what civilization is.

You need to think about the logic behind my saying!

[Shuimo]

Tough ****, you lost it and There are in Chinese Museums American/British/Canadian/Australian/Korean items looted or captured in Wars

I dont see the PRC in any rush to return them. I do See the PRC in a rush to destroy items like this during the Cultural Revolution, & Great Leap Forward
we did make mistakes!
But we also learn the lessons!

[Rilence]

You need to think about the logic behind my saying!

The problem with that is there is no logic in what you are saying. I thought about what you said and i still have a migrane.

[Shuimo]

The problem with that is there is no logic in what you are saying. I thought about what you said and i still have a migrane.

you will understand it if not now!

[SBL]

Once more, history will test the Chinese wisdom!
You're a regular cliche.

[Ordie]

Innovation doesn't have to come at the price of making people greedy!

No, is about filling an necessity.

We are dealing with two different mindsets.

The Chinese copy because its risk free with predicatble results at no loss of face or investment.

Patent and copyright laws prevents copying. Thus it forces and encourages a person to creatively think of an innovative, unique and improved product or concept.

[Ordie]

we did make mistakes!
But we also learn the lessons!

Only if there's money to be made.

[Bugaboo]

we did make mistakes!
But we also learn the lessons!

You sure do take your time, mate.

[Shuimo]

No, is about filling an necessity.

We are dealing with two different mindsets.

The Chinese copy because its risk free with predicatble results at no loss of face or investment.

Patent and copyright laws prevents copying. Thus it forces and encourages a person to creatively think of an innovative, unique and improved product or concept.
At best, the precondition for the latter western scenario is for two players of the same class and matching strength to compete, not for two players of marked gaps!rofl

[Shuimo]

So, the western civilization is also horrendously hypocritical!

[Bugaboo]

At best, the precondition for the latter western scenario is for two players of the same class and matching strength to compete, not for two players of marked gaps!rofl

With this mindset and attitude you will never cross the gap.

[Shuimo]

With this mindset and attitude you will never cross the gap.

That is merely yr doomsay!

[Ordie]

At best, the precondition for the latter western scenario is for two players of the same class and matching strength to compete, not for two players of marked gaps!rofl

Not really.

Google started in a garage in a California suburb while IBM and Microsoft were giants 10 years ago.

[Shuimo]

it is never fair for an adult and a kid to have a competition!

[SBL]

it is never fair for an adult and a kid to have a competition!
A 5000 year old kid?

[Shuimo]

Not really.

Google started in a garage in a California suburb while IBM and Microsoft were giants 10 years ago.

Never use specific indvidual companies within a country to prove cross-nationnal competition!

[Bugaboo]

That is merely yr doomsay!

Nope, it is experience. With the self pity and excuses for uncivilized acts you will get nowhere. You advocate Chinese culture and philosophy... did it ever occur to you these might be the reasons while you are still a development country?

[Shuimo]

A 5000 year old kid?


yeas, in terms of high-tech!

[Shuimo]

Nope, it is experience. With the self pity and excuses for uncivilized acts you will get nowhere. You advocate Chinese culture and philosophy... did it ever occur to you these might be the reasons while you are still a development country?

You can never judge things by experience only!

[Bugaboo]

You can never judge things by experience only!

Mate, experience is what drives progress. You try stuff and see if it works. If it doesn't, you dump it. If it works you keep it. We didn't need 5000 years to find this out...

[Shuimo]

OK, take it easy!
with China doing such copying, it won't go far!
As you all say so except Shuimo, why bother to worry about that?

Just wait and see China doom! Cheers!

[SBL]

yeas, in terms of high-tech!
China wouldn't be so far behind if it weren't for it's own insular, backward leadership, and now it's forced to cheat and steal in order to catch up with the rest of the world.

[Bugaboo]

OK, take it easy!
with China doing such copying, it won't go far!
As you all say so except Shuimo, why bother to worry about that?

Just wait and see China doom! Cheers!

Nobody wants to see China "doom". Nobody wants to see his property stolen by Chinese. It shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

[Shuimo]

China wouldn't be so far behind if it weren't for it's own backward leadership, and now it's forced to cheat and steal in order to catch up with the rest of the world.
our leadership is still backward, it still manages this far!
Cheers!

[Henry's Fork]

A 5000 year old kid?

Some kids have to take the "special" bus to school.

[SBL]

our leadership is still backward, it still manages this far!
Cheers!
I agree, which is why I'm not real enthusiastic about the China of the future so long as it continues with it's vaunted "5000-year-old tradition".

[Shuimo]

Some kids have to take the "special" bus to school.

You r so witty!

[Shuimo]

I agree, which is why I'm not real enthusiastic about the China of the future so long as it continues with it's vaunted "5000-year-old tradition".

so we can end this ranting!
China will always be China!

Let us wait and see!

[Bugaboo]

Shuimo, why do you think the West is where it is? Just answer with arguments, no propaganda. And why is China where it is, i.e. development country? I would like to know your reasons.

[Henry's Fork]

You r so witty!

M goi.....

[Shuimo]

Shuimo, why do you think the West is where it is? Just answer with arguments, no propaganda. And why is China where it is, i.e. development country? I would like to know your reasons.

Science + gun-boat!

[Bugaboo]

Science + gun-boat!

Well, 5000 years in a nutshell. I posted a serious question and expected a serious answer, we call it discussion here and it helps people to understand each other. But seems it is impossible to discuss stuff with you.

[muttbutt]

Science + gun-boat!
This is the 21st century, it's science+missile boat/aircraft carrier/SSN ect ect....

[Shuimo]

Well, 5000 years in a nutshell. I posted a serious question and expected a serious answer, we call it discussion here and it helps people to understand each other. But seems it is impossible to discuss stuff with you.


That is indeed a serious answer!
Each of the two words can be expanded for a thick book for account!
But the key is disclosed to you!

[SBL]

Science + gun-boat!
If Chinese thinking is traditionally superior, why could they not make these developments on their own?

[muttbutt]

Well, 5000 years in a nutshell. I posted a serious question and expected a serious answer, we call it discussion here and it helps people to understand each other. But seems it is impossible to discuss stuff with you.
He's a troll, he was talking repeatedly in the 3rd person a few pages back.:roll:

he remindes me of another Chinese guy on another forum, called "Dragon", he'd act in the same way.

[muttbutt]

If Chinese thinking is superior, why were they unable to make these developments themselves?
Conformist culture?......thinking outside the box, usually got you put in one and buried?......picked on by other stronger nations over the centuries?

[Shuimo]

He's a troll, he was talking repeatedly in the 3rd person a few pages back.:roll:

he remindes me of another Chinese guy on another forum, called "Dragon", he'd act in the same way.
I gave an expanlation for that earlier in my posts. You can check!

[Ordie]

Science + gun-boat!

That would have never happened if the Chinese didn't spent so much on a Marble Boat at Summer Palace.

I hope the Chinese copy our envirnomental regulations and technology for the benefit of the world and future generations.