508th Airborne Shoulder Sleeve Insignia

[jaysouth]

Has anyone ever seen a photo of a GI wearing this patch?

http://www.saundersinsignia.com/508th-airborne-infantry-p-17184.html

Every reference book lists this SSI as belonging to the 508th Parachute Infantry. However, as an anecedote, no one has ever seen a GI wearing the patch nor can they produce a photo of the patch in use.

During the dates that the unit was "stood up", they wore the 82d SSI, an ARCT SSI of similar design but with the "dragon" in the center or the SSI of other units they were assigned to. Namely the 193d Brigade in Panama or 173d Brigade in Italy.

[Wha_Dar]

Found this http://www.usarmypatches.com/index.htm which isnt much help. I wonder it might have been a Company insignia?

[California Joe]

Check here if you haven't already, it's a good resource...Although they list the dragon crest below...http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/DUI_SSI_COA_page.htm

The distinctive unit insignia was originally approved for the 508th Airborne Infantry Regiment on 4 Sep 1951. It was redesignated on 3 Dec 1962 for the 508th Infantry.

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Inf/508th%20Infantry%20Regiment.htm

[Kaplanr]

Were regimental patches common? I thought most everyone wore their divisional and/or corps. patch when appropriate.

[capixaba]

I had a look around but didn't come up with anything..... your link states the patch is 1960s, so you'd likely be looking for Vietnam era photos.

Had a good look on the 508 site (there's a ton of good old photos on this site btw!) It's more WW2, but somone there may be able to help, or point you to more recent history. Could be relating to a specific battalion.

http://www.508pir.org/
maybe contact
jumpmaster@508pir.org


http://www.bragg.army.mil/2-508/Default.htm

[USMCRTop]

somebody here can help too
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/

[California Joe]

I moved your thread here because it'll stay up longer and be more pertinent to your search.

[LineDoggie]

somebody here can help too
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/ Good Choice, I've been amazed at some of the finds there.

As to the Patch, Well the 508th Regiment patch from WWII that I've seen is a circular patch with a Red Devil grasping a rifle while parachuting & sometimes with a yellow/gold 508 to the devils right. 508th was a seperate regiment attached to the 82nd (along with the 2/401 GIR-1/401 going to the 101st) for Overlord.

1SG Leonard Funk of the 508th is pictured wearing the 82nd patch while recieving his MoH from President Truman.

Just an guess but since the 508th used a different SSI in almost every picture prior to VJ-Day and the similarities to the 82nd SSI I am hazarding that it was adopted in 1951 when the 508th was reactivated.

Also note it shares the central Motif (Blue "clover" with stars that MAAG's used)

[Elfstone44]

My father was 508...jumped into Normandy..KIA there. Remember the 508th was only "attached" to the 82nd, replacing the 504th which was too chewed up from Italy to participate in Normandy. To this day some 82nd historians sort of "sniff" at this independent regiment which was "attached" and not really 82nd. (So much so that they left their regimental history and memorablia to Camp Blanding in Florida rather than Ft. Bragg). I'll add that according to oral history, the devil was the symbol of the 508th from the start...I had a set of 508 glass with the emblem left over from WWII. and the jump cry "Diablo" confirms this. But I don't know if it was an official patch or unofficial. I believe the patch was modified when the regiment was reactivated in in 1950's. Try this site

http://508pir.org/

See also this previous thread:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144489&highlight=508pir

508th at Baupte (Jun 14th, 1944?) - 1st of 2 amphib water crossing assault by 508th...during Normady battles...Second was across the river at Pont l'Abbe. Brother can confirm...he's the historian.

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/42917/2814563920103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2814563920103673033FHKxhB)

508th in Normandy: Lts. Bud Dewisse and Victor Grabbe (taken by my father about June 13th, 1944)

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/43161/2803557850104377215S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2803557850104377215Pdprzm)

Here is Gavin (dep commander of 82nd, guess he was commander in view of the 2 stars by that time) with 82nd patch...and MGN xxxx? with XVIII Airborne Corps Patch. Must be from Ardennes. per the coats.

http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/41499/2482075470103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2482075470103673033Mmlgam)

[TDuck]

Were regimental patches common? I thought most everyone wore their divisional and/or corps. patch when appropriate.
Airborne wore Ovals Regimental patches on there Class A uniform. The 508th's patch was Black with a Silver outline.

[SpeedyHedgehog]

The WWII 508th PIR patch was unauthorized, and considered more of a pocket patch
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/SpeedyHedgehog/508thpatch.jpg
It's difficult to find pictures of anyone wearing it on a uniform. If you look at this website http://www.ww2-airborne.us/units/508/508_trp.html (http://www.ww2-airborne.us/units/508/508_trp.html you'll) you'll find, about 2/3 down the page, PVT Frank E. Mackey wearing one.

This page http://www.vetshome.com/military_airborne_inf_patches3.htm refers to the patch you're talking about as unauthorized. This leads me to believe it was NOT a shoulder sleeve insignia (like the 82d ABN DIV patch) but more of a pocket patch. That would explain why it's so difficult to find a photo of anyone wearing it.

[jaysouth]

Most of the SSI guides show that patch as "508th Airborne".

All collectors likewise refer to it as 508th.

In personal conversations with 2 curators of "Airborne museums", both said it was "508th"

However, no one can produce a veteran who wore this patch or a photo of a GI wearing one.

From 43 to early 44, the 508th PIR(parachute infantry regiment) wore the patch of its parent unit, the 2d Airborne Brigade. In early 44, the brigade with both its 507th and 508th PIRs were 'attached to the 82d. The Brigade and both its regiments are listed in the battle of order, 6 June 1944. After that date, the 507th was assigned to the 17th Airborne division and the 508th assigned to the 82d Airborne division. The 2d Airborne brigade was abolished and the personnel assigned to the 82d.

In 1946, the 508th was disbanded.

In 1951, an Airborne Regimental Combat Team was formed and sent to Ft. Campbell, KY. It was designated 508th Airborne Regimental Combat team and had a distinctive patch that looked in all respects like the 82d patch. Except in the center, it had a wyvern(dragon) instead of the letters "AA".
The ARCT was disbanded in 1956 and its personnel were assigned to the 101st Airborne division to be used as cadre to train new members of the newly division.

From 63 until 68, the 3d battalion 508 was reflagged and assigned to the 193d Brigade at Fort Kobbe in Panama. They wore the 193d SSI. In 68, they were disbanded and colors returned to storage.

In the 70s, the 1st and 2d battaltions, 508th were reflagged and assigned to the 193d Brigade in Panama. They wore the 193d SSI. In the early 90s, both units were disbanded.

Shortly thereafter, the 1st 508th was reflagged and assigned to the 173d Airborne brigade in Italy.

When the Army went to the Combat Brigade system, the 508th was transferred back to the 82d Airborne division. the 1st and newly reflagged 2d battalion were assigned to the 4th Brigade, 82d Airborne, where they are today.

As you can see, I have been able to construct a timeline for active duty assignments for each battation from 1943 until 2009. There are no gaps or missing periods where the 508th Regiment or subordinate battation would have had an assignment that would have required a seperate SSI other than enumerated above.

I do not have an ax to grind or wish to discredit any references, living or published. I just want someone to connect me with a vet that wore this patch or a photo of a GI wearing one. Inquiring minds and all that.

Thanks again for the great responses and keep them coming.

[baboon6]

My father was 508...jumped into Normandy..KIA there. Remember the 508th was only "attached" to the 82nd, replacing the 504th which was too chewed up from Italy to participate in Normandy. To this day some 82nd historians sort of "sniff" at this independent regiment which was "attached" and not really 82nd. (So much so that they left their regimental history and memorablia to Camp Blanding in Florida rather than Ft. Bragg). I'll add that according to oral history, the devil was the symbol of the 508th from the start...I had a set of 508 glass with the emblem left over from WWII. and the jump cry "Diablo" confirms this. But I don't know if it was an official patch or unofficial. I believe the patch was modified when the regiment was reactivated in in 1950's. Try this site

http://508pir.org/

See also this previous thread:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144489&highlight=508pir

508th at Baupte (Jun 14th, 1944?) - 1st of 2 amphib water crossing assault by 508th...during Normady battles...Second was across the river at Pont l'Abbe. Brother can confirm...he's the historian.

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/42917/2814563920103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2814563920103673033FHKxhB)

508th in Normandy: Lts. Bud Dewisse and Victor Grabbe (taken by my father about June 13th, 1944)

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/43161/2803557850104377215S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2803557850104377215Pdprzm)

Here is Gavin (dep commander of 82nd, guess he was commander in view of the 2 stars by that time) with 82nd patch...and MGN xxxx? with XVIII Airborne Corps Patch. Must be from Ardennes. per the coats.

http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/41499/2482075470103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2482075470103673033Mmlgam)

That is Major General Matthew B. Ridgway, former CG of the 82nd in Sicily, Italy and Normandy and then commanding XVIII Airborne Corps. Later commanded the 8th Army in Korea 1951, Supreme Commander UN Forces there after relief of MacArthur.

[c46thva]

During the days of the Army's "pentomic" structure, Regimental Combat Teams were common. That patch is probably from that era. It was probably produced in anticipation of the 508th being a stand alone unit but for whatever reason the unit was never authorized to wear it. It was not uncommon for patch manufacturers to try stay ahead of things by producing patches that were not yet authorized, but who's authorization was thought to be just around the corner. Or it may be that the patch was authorized and produced but the Army changed its mind before that patch was actually issued. The Army was going through alot of reorganization right after WW2 and into the fifties. For instance many "leg" divisions had an airborne RCT assigned to them during this period. Troops assigned to those airborne units would wear the normal divisional SSI with a correspondingly colored "Airborne" tab. The 80th Division for example, the SSI is olive green with teal and white details, the airborne tab (which was produced in fair numbers although Im not sure if it was ever actually worn either ) is olive green with teal lettering. My guess would be that a blue and white "airborne" tab would have been worn with that patch.
I have one of those 508th patches in my Cold War Airborne collection. There was alot of cool airborne insignia produced during that era and makes for a great little collection, not a very expensive one either.

JW

PS Is that patch "merrowed edge" or is it "cut edge" ???

[jaysouth]

The patch shown is a current production unit that Saunders is selling. It has the merrowed edge.

If anybody runs across a photo of a trooper wearing this patch, please post it with any details of dates of service.

c46thVA, what are some other unit patches that you refer to in this category? If you want a real challenge, trace the 11th Airborne Div and its subordinate units from 1956 until it was disbanded and the wandering odessey of some of its units. The 187 and 503d wound up in Bavaria with the 24th Division. Some of their gear wound up with the 509th and other units of the 8th division later on. When I was in the 509th in 65, according to the log books, our 4.2 inch mortars came to Europe with the 503d/11th Airborne division.

If you have a teal and OD airborne tab from the 80th Division, hang on to it, they are getting scarce.

The 508th SSI that is the topic of this thread is shown in the reference books with a blue and white Airborne tab above it.

JS
2d VA/116th Inf

[Elfstone44]

There are several 508 PIR original members still alive including Francis Lamereaux...pathfinder...jumped with my father and pictured below, father-back row first left; Lameroux back row, 3rd from left. I'll ask him.

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/42683/2576074800103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2576074800103673033taygih)