Europe turning Muslim? [Archive]

Mordoror

05-02-2009, 01:03 PM

discussed hundred of times on this board

can Eu outsiders stop to spread this BS and listen what EU members say on this issue ?

now i am sorry to stop this discussion i have to go to the Jamiya to talk to the imam. We have to have a discussion about how we can overwhelm the punny christians
Our swine flu is doing it well but not quickly enough so we are thinking about poisoning the holy wine with a fecundity decreasing toxin .....

GiladS

05-02-2009, 01:06 PM

So this means Muslims are *** crazed freaks?

It's more to do with culture/religion than ***.

Never crossed your mind that there are contraceptive methods and that you can have all the *** you like without bearing children?

Muslims in general are a more religious population and their cultural heritage encourages them to have big families.

keeperofpeace

05-02-2009, 01:07 PM

me thinks that when the current economic crisis gets very bad the conflict between the muslims and european nationalists is going to swing in favor of the nationalists--by by muslims.

Mordoror

05-02-2009, 01:14 PM

It's more to do with culture/religion than ***.

BS
Crap
and so on .....

This is more to do with education and muslims are more educated in Western countries than in Africa or Asia or Gaza strip
demographic studies have shown that average children are strongly decreasing with culture and education level

in Morocco which is a strongy and fully muslim country the average birth level is 2,57 child/women
in Algeria it is 1,9
in Tunisia it is 1,74
in Saoudie arabia it is 4

so your assesment is BS as Algeria/Tunisia are muslmi countries with average to high level of education and a barely enough birth rate to sustain the population
the situation is better in Morocco
and of course SA is far above but education of women is here very low

GiladS

05-02-2009, 01:24 PM

BS
Crap
and so on .....

This is more to do with education and muslims are more educated in Western countries than in Africa or Asia or Gaza strip
demographic studies have shown that average children are strongly decreasing with culture and education level

I agree.

But for that to happen they have to want to assimilate.

Here in Israel the Arab Muslim fertility rate has only just began to decline as the population is showing symptoms of westernization... this after some 60 years.

Keep in mind that in Europe you have constant Muslim immigration and thus (logically) such a process would be slower.

Mordoror

05-02-2009, 01:34 PM

Keep in mind that in Europe you have constant Muslim immigration and thus (logically) such a process would be slower.

partly false and very depending of EU countries

you have old immigration countries (like France/Germany/UK...) where the new immigration wave is small by now
muslim immigrants are now the first generation of muslims and second and especially third generation are much more "assimilated" although imperfectly

we have not ethnic statistics in France but average second generation muslim families do not have an average 3 to 4 children (it si still expensive and difficult to raise 2 so 4 or 5 even with state grants)

sure you can point some exceptions (there is always some kind of examples) and some african immigrants (being muslim or not bTW) in France can have larger families but it will not last....as i said it is too expensive, too difficult and too time and energy consumming to raise children

Listen, when i was a child (some years ago) i had friends of plenty of different origins. None were coming from more than 2 child families. I don't see it changing right now

i don't know the situation in new immigration countries (like Nordic ones) but i guess that after the initial raise they will come down to a reasonnable birth rate

Panchito12

05-02-2009, 03:31 PM

Interesting vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCWB3RwbO4

Worry about the birth-rate in your neighborhood first.

Timmy!

05-02-2009, 03:34 PM

When they were talking about England, Holand, France, Germany etc, they were saying "50% of its populatio", "40% of its population" etc. When they've mentioned Russia, they have said "40% of its army". Russia has no population, it has only army, right.

At this point it began to look like a smelling piece of American christian propaganda - you know, the kind of talks mormons and other highly fanatic people like to spread.

Ulytau

05-02-2009, 03:45 PM

Also about Russian army they didnt seen last war? As i know in Russian Federation Army Imams and Priests are working together&they are really loyal to army and country..

I wonder what kind of ACTION they waiting too or interest to do?

GiladS

05-02-2009, 03:57 PM

Worry about the birth-rate in your neighborhood first.

Believe me that we do...

Though the last statistics showed that there is no reason to worry.

RWR

05-02-2009, 04:07 PM

Interesting vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCWB3RwbO4

This is how genocide starts.
War criminal Radovan Karadzic had very similar rhetoric and he too was calling for "action" before Bosniaks (muslims) become absolute majority through higher birth rates and he proposed "cutting" number of Bosniaks to "acceptable numbers" (5%) in parts of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
We all know how that ended (genocide, mass killings, mass graves, rapes, ethnic cleansing etc.) and where is Karadzic now.
As a European, Bosniak and muslim and someone who lost members of family, friends and home to such idiotic ideas I find it very disturbing when someone is suggesting that "our" numbers are problematic and "something" should be done about that.

Sarig

05-02-2009, 04:42 PM

i don't know the situation in new immigration countries (like Nordic ones) but i guess that after the initial raise they will come down to a reasonnable birth rate

Here in Norway it's a current political issue. While immigrants are generally from the EU, those who aren't from the EU (and therefore subject to stricter immigration laws), are generally very highly educated, especially from the middle east.

Refugees however, is an entirely different matter,education varies, often poorly intergrated (which bureacracy is partly to blame for, in my opinion).

Most of the issues are generally focused on the capital city, where most of the non-western population lives. I live on the other side of the country, and know a fair bit of people who are children or immigrants, or grandchildren of them, and while several of them are muslims, I've yet to meet a 'fanatic' one. Their views and values go hand in hand with that of Norwegian society at large, making their religion completely a non-issue.

This is my personal experience of course, and several top politicians quite disagree with me ;)

RuneX2

05-02-2009, 05:06 PM

Europe is not turning Muslim. The Middle East is turning Christian. Fastest Growing Religion (http://fastestgrowingreligion.com/)

Empulse

05-02-2009, 05:20 PM

The video you posted was already posted in another thread and it's a ****load of crap:

I'm sure that Geert Wilders could appreciate it. :)
I've done some research and according to the Dutch statistical office (CBS) the number of allochtonous inhabitants will rise to 2,7 million, whereas the total number of inhabitants in the Netherlands is estimated to rise to 16,8 million. It should be taken into account that obviously not all of these ''foreigners'' are Muslim...

Ignoring that fact, the total number of allochtonous inhabitants would be approximately 16%. Not quite the 50% that this video tries to convince us of.

little icebear

05-03-2009, 07:19 PM

Number of kids has little to do with religion and everything with how developed a society is.
In modern countries, people invest money for their retirement, in pre-modern societies, they make babies that can take care of them, when they are older.
First Generation of muslim immigrants in my country came from the rural areas of eastern Turkey.
The had more kids than the average German - but their heirs have adjusted to the modern society they came to, and their reproduction rate is only insignificantly higher.

Europe is not turning into Eurabia.

If there is anything negative about our demographics, then it is the prospect that 50 years from now, we will be outnumbered by the French. p-)

little icebear

05-03-2009, 07:24 PM

But for that to happen they have to want to assimilate.

Here in Israel the Arab Muslim fertility rate has only just began to decline as the population is showing symptoms of westernization... this after some 60 years.

It has probably something to do with their prosperity and access to education and general participation in your society.
The more similar the general living circumstances are, the more similar the reproduction rate might be.
It´s more of a socio-economical topic than an issue of religion.

ggk

05-04-2009, 02:33 AM

a huge repost...

Adux

05-04-2009, 02:40 AM

As long as people dont slap their religion on my face, and also dont against human rights, secularism and democracy, I really dont care.

a_very_ex_STAB

05-04-2009, 07:38 AM

Interesting vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCWB3RwbO4

I'd be more worried about Israel's muslim demographic issue if I were you :roll:

gustav

05-04-2009, 07:42 AM

I'd be more worried about Israel's muslim demographic issue if I were you :roll:

Isreal's Arab population is around 20% and 25% of every newborn in Israel are Muslims.

a_very_ex_STAB

05-04-2009, 07:45 AM

Isreal's Arab population is around 20% and 25% of every newborn in Israel are Muslims.

So their birthrate is disproportionately higher than their current population level.

gustav

05-04-2009, 07:46 AM

So their birthrate is disproportionately higher than their current population level.

Must be a cultural thing, "Muslims tend to have more babies". p-)

a_very_ex_STAB

05-04-2009, 07:50 AM

Must be a cultural thing, "Muslims tend to have more babies". p-)

Oh noes the sky is falling! The caliphate is coming. 'Armageddon out of here!' ;-)

RuneX2

05-04-2009, 07:51 AM

So their birthrate is disproportionately higher than their current population level.Perhaps, but this particular bomb seem to have been defused with an increasing Jewish birth-rate and a decling Muslim birth rate.

Let's leverage the good demographic news

...According to the CBS, the country's Jewish population is getting younger and the Arab population getting older. The number of annual Jewish births increased by 45% between 1995 (80,400) and 2008 (117,000), as a result of aliya from the USSR, the shift by the Soviet olim from a typical Russian rate of one birth per woman to a typical Israeli rate of two-three births, the rising secular Jewish rate and the sustained high Orthodox and haredi rate. The number of annual Arab births has stabilized - since 1995 - at around 39,000, reflecting a most successful integration by Arabs into the country's infrastructures of education, health, human services, commerce, finance, culture, sports and politics. The fertility gap is down from six births per woman in 1969 to 0.7 in 2009, and the proportion of Jewish births has grown from 69% (of total births) in 1995 and 74% in 2007 to 75% in 2008. ...Let's leverage the good demographic news (http://beeqube.com/article/let0)

a_very_ex_STAB

05-04-2009, 07:54 AM

Well it seems like there's two conflicting demographic trends being reported. I wonder who is right.
IIRC the Israeli government has tended in the past to be very cagey about publishing population statistics.

spider1

05-04-2009, 08:08 AM

We need to offer every arab family around 200.000$ to leave the country but if they refuse so then we need to allow them to stay without any problems.

RoyB

05-04-2009, 08:10 AM

For gods sake, STFU.^

ggk

05-04-2009, 08:13 AM

We need to offer every arab family around 200.000$ to leave the country but if they refuse not to force them to leave so nothing will happen and they will stay.

pffft are you kidding kid?

gustav

05-04-2009, 08:16 AM

It seems that Israeli Muslims have still a higher demographic growth rate than the rest of the population. This minority could reach 25% of the overall population. But it is predicted that it will stabilize or at least slow down.

According to the study, 156,000 Arabs lived in Israel in 1948. They comprised approximately 19% of the population. In 2001, 1.2 million Arabic people populated the area. Because of increased Jewish immigration to Israel, the proportion of Arab residents remained at 19% in 2001. The researchers predict that by 2020, the Arab population in Israel will have increased to 2 million people and will comprise somewhere between 21% to 24% of Israel's population. On average, the proportion of Arabs increases 3.4% each year

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/israeliarabs.html

IMHO the reason behind the high birth rates of Arab israelis has more to do with education, health care and socio economic opportunities than religion.

spider1

05-04-2009, 08:18 AM

pffft are you kidding kid?
I meant if they refuse so not to do anything and let them stay!

Holycrusader

05-04-2009, 08:21 AM

I meant if they refuse so not to do anything and let them stay!

Its very nice from you...

spider1

05-04-2009, 08:23 AM

Its very nice from you...
Well, you dont use violence im talking on peacefull transfer if they accept ofcourse(to leave Israel in exchange for money).

gustav

05-04-2009, 08:25 AM

Well, you dont use violence im talking on peacefull transfer if they accept ofcourse(to leave Israel in exchange for money).

Uhm would you accept money in exchange of being stripped from your citizenship?

spider1

05-04-2009, 08:29 AM

Uhm would you accept money in exchange of being stripped from your citizenship?
If i was desperate to money and i could find a job in other country, probably yes and they say that they suffer from discrimination in Israel,so it can be better for them to leave to Europe or maybe Canada.

RoyB

05-04-2009, 08:37 AM

And you will arrange Green Cards for them?
Just stop Spider, its retarded.

Danielotu

05-04-2009, 11:42 AM

We need to offer every arab family around 200.000$ to leave the country but if they refuse so then we need to allow them to stay without any problems.

You have a problem.....seriously :roll:.

Danielotu

05-04-2009, 11:43 AM

For gods sake, STFU.^

x2. `totally agree with you.

Lau

05-04-2009, 11:48 AM

If i was desperate to money and i could find a job in other country, probably yes and they say that they suffer from discrimination in Israel,so it can be better for them to leave to Europe or maybe Canada.

:cantbeli:

How' bout we just kick your ass off of this earth for being a retard?

Player

05-04-2009, 12:14 PM

If i was desperate to money and i could find a job in other country, probably yes and they say that they suffer from discrimination in Israel,so it can be better for them to leave to Europe or maybe Canada.

It's because of racists like you they feel discrimination.