LASD pull S&W M&P from service!

[SMGLee]

SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT BROADCAST ANNOUNCEMENT

TRAINING BUREAU WEAPONS TRAINING

TO: ALL SWORN PERSONNEL

SUBJECT: OFFICER SAFETY ALERT - SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOLS


RECENT DEVELOPMENTS HAVE FORCED A DEPARTMENTAL RE-EVALUATION OF THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL AS AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL HANDGUN FOR SWORN PERSONNEL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL SIZE PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL ON-DUTY PISTOL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P COMPACT PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL OFF-DUTY PISTOL.

SINCE FIRST APPROVAL AS AN OPTIONAL PISTOL ON DECEMBER 10, 2008, THE FULL-SIZED AND/OR COMPACT VERSIONS OF THE 9MM SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOL HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED BY 49 SWORN PERSONNEL ON AND OFF DUTY. ONE OF THESE PISTOLS WAS DELIVERED NEW WITH AN IMPROPERLY MACHINED BARREL THAT WOULD NOT EJECT SPENT CARTRIDGE CASINGS. ANOTHER OF THESE PISTOLS EXPERIENCED A BARREL FAILURE IN MID-APRIL OF THIS YEAR. AFTER FIRING LESS THAN 10,000 ROUNDS OF TRAINING AMMUNITION. THIS PISTOL BARREL BROKE INTO TWO PIECES JUST AHEAD OF THE FIRING CHAMBER.

ADDITIONALLY, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DEPUTY ACADEMY CLASS #377 RECRUITS WITH ISSUED NEW SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL-SIZE PISTOLS HAVE EXPERIENCED PHASE-2 PISTOL MALFUNCTIONS, CAUSED BY SPENT CASINGS FAILING TO EXTRACT FROM BARREL CHAMBERS, DURING THE PAST TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING. CLASS #377 RECRUITS WILL BE ISSUED BERETTA 92FS PISTOLS ON WEDNESDAY APRIL 29, 2009, AND THEIR M&P PISTOLS REMOVED FROM SERVICE.

PERSONNEL SAFETY AND RELIABLE EQUIPMENT REMAIN OUR PRIMARY CONCERNS.


DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS TO
LIEUTENANT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@LASD.ORG
SERGEANT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@LASD.ORG AT THE B.C. RANGE.


LEROY D. BACA, SHERIFF KBL/SNDG




Also found out the 9mm M&P tested at LAPD had a failure in the barrel/chamber area. looks like SW might have some rough seas ahead.....


So far my 9mm M&P has been reliable and accurate, but my round count are nothing compare to the LASD or LAPD training division guys.

[GG]

Oh the irony! I just read the other day that another agency pulled the Glock in favor of the M&P.

[Frens]

now the question is:
were those weapons just lemons or the M&P pistols really need to be improved?

[sergey31]

It's QC most likely. Most if not all major gun manufacturers had an issue with a batch here and there. There are many agencies that transitioned to M&P models and not that many had issues. If anything LASP is the first I've read about.

There is a possibility that this memo could be fake.

[ortizoner]

Has LASO only approved the 9mm as an alternative weapon? Have they approved the 40 cal version of the weapon and if so, have they encountered any problems?

[SMGLee]

It's QC most likely. Most if not all major gun manufacturers had an issue with a batch here and there. There are many agencies that transitioned to M&P models and not that many had issues. If anything LASP is the first I've read about.

There is a possibility that this memo could be fake.

I DO NOt post fake info, or disinformation. I am M&P supporter and I had to double and triple check the source before I posted....this is as real as it gets...

[LineDoggie]

Machinist with a Hangover that morning? Seriously sounds like a QC glitch.

[sergey31]

I DO NOt post fake info, or disinformation. I am M&P supporter and I had to double and triple check the source before I posted....this is as real as it gets...

I did not say it was, I stated that it's "possibility".

This memo is all over Internet on numerous forums. There are debates in regards it being genuine or not.
I mentioned about this event a day earlier.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134245&page=86

In the age of Internet you always take anything "with a grain of salt", just MHO.

[Geezah]

Do you think this is poor QC across the board, possibly affecting their ARs, or it's just isolated to ther pistols?

[Pralix]

Do you think this is poor QC across the board, possibly affecting their ARs, or it's just isolated to ther pistols?

Their ARs are made by Stag Arms.

[HCV]

Their ARs are made by Stag Arms.

LASD's? Which model did they acquire and when? Thanks!

Cheers

HANS

[Kilo1-1]

Thanks for the heads up Chen...I wasn't expecting this since I heard many good things about the M&Ps.


Their ARs are made by Stag Arms.
Not quite. They might of sourced some parts from the people who also makes parts for Stag, but S&W assembles their ARs at their own place.

[gaijinsamurai]

Too bad.
I hope S&W corrects these problems ASAP and this issue doesn't end up seriously hurting them.

[Geezah]

I know STAG are top notch, even if they are only supplying parts to S&W.
No matter what though, this is a PR nightmare for the M&P line.

[Paulinski]

I'm guessing bad batch of M&P 9's. Happens to every manufacturer.

[Frens]

I'm guessing bad batch of M&P 9's. Happens to every manufacturer.

agree

(sadly) this kind of problems are normal for a young product...the way the mfg face these problems makes the difference.
I'm sure S&W will take care of this.

[Pete031]

Should have gone with Sig!!

[Seraphim]

Should have gone with Sig!!

Only thing that I dont "like" about the Sig P series is the decocker location. Bad 1911/USP habit of having thumbs high and riding the safety lever. Doesnt work so well on the decocker of the Sig. p-)

[PvtPyle]

You mean the Sig production line that makes the guns for DHS, or the one that makes the guns for everyone else? Because Sig has a seprate line to make guns to meet the DHS QC requirements.

[Pete031]

You mean the Homeland Security one? I could be wrong, but AFAIK there are only cosmetic differences between the HSP sig and the rest... It also has a DAK trigger.

[Geezah]

DAO is the only difference I'm aware of on the SIGs.

[SilentType]

Some type of heat treatment issues maybe? This is kind of thing can happen where you've got a good design, but you don't have a good QC in place. They have a production flaw and nobody was catching it so they kept churning out some bad pistols they'll now have to recall or at least SHOULD recall.

These things happen though. You fix it and move on as a company. If it's a production it can be remedied.

[PvtPyle]

No, the QC standard is different between the regular production line and the ones purchased by DHS. The small parts and minor fit work QC are the biggest issues. The DAK has also been dropped by DHS. None of the new guns mandated to be purchased, or purchased by the Agents for duty use have to be DAK, they can be DAO and if you are a member of an SRT soon you may be able to use a single/double action 229/226 in 40 cal.

[HollywoodMarine]

There is a possibility that this memo could be fake.
It's legit... I read the print-out which was sent county (LASD) wide.

Has LASO only approved the 9mm as an alternative weapon? Have they approved the 40 cal version of the weapon and if so, have they encountered any problems?
That they don't. LASD only allows 9mm and 45. cal

[ortizoner]

It's legit... I read the print-out which was sent county (LASD) wide.

That they don't. LASD only allows 9mm and 45. cal


Thanks, does anyone know if anyone or any dept has had any issues with the 40 cal version?

[Pete031]

No, the QC standard is different between the regular production line and the ones purchased by DHS. The small parts and minor fit work QC are the biggest issues. The DAK has also been dropped by DHS. None of the new guns mandated to be purchased, or purchased by the Agents for duty use have to be DAK, they can be DAO and if you are a member of an SRT soon you may be able to use a single/double action 229/226 in 40 cal.

I've only ever used to P226R in Single/Double in 9mm.... I think it is an outstanding weapon.
There is a reason that the M&P, like the Springfield XD (which I own) are cheaper then a lot of alternatives... Good guns, but I wouldn't carry one into combat. Or do LEO work with one.

[PvtPyle]

I own a Para, a M9 and 5 Sigs. That tell you how I feel about them? I carrya 220 nearly everyday and even though the Para is hella fun to shoot and scary accurate, the 220 is my go to gun(s). I can understand why their price would push them out of the market for some agencies, but with most stores offering officer discounts and Sig running the officer purchase rebate program I cant understand why departments wont allow officers to buy their own and use them in their factory condition. I have never had a weapon related issues with my 9mm's or .45's Can't say the same for my M9, Glock or other weapons. DHS has a dedicated line because the 40 puts a bunch of additional pressure on the gun and when they switched to it they ran thru Glocks, Beretta, and HK before they settled on the Sig after a VERY extensive pistol trial. To ensure that they had fewer issues, they upped the standards.

[SilentType]

Well, the problem with .40 S&W is that most pistols are designed for 9mm and then later adapted to .40 S&W just like the Glock which has a fully supported chamber for the 9mm, but NOT for the .40 S&W.

[gafkiwi]

Would these be the same type of 9mm S&Ws that were provided to the Afgan police??? We had a crap load in a conex for training the ANP. They were a nice pistol to shoot, Only problem I found was The poor guys had been given some alcheapo budget ammo which had alot of misfires (1 or 2 each mag). We used our 9mm and they worked flawlessly.

[Geezah]

Also found out the 9mm M&P tested at LAPD had a failure in the barrel/chamber area. looks like SW might have some rough seas ahead.....


So far my 9mm M&P has been reliable and accurate, but my round count are nothing compare to the LASD or LAPD training division guys.

Chen,

I talked to a friend who is in a big department in this area about this. He questioned the validity of their complaints as he said there were about 4 firearms at fault out of a thousand and they would not let S&W examine the firearms. On top of that, he also said that they did the same thing to Glock a few years earlier and based on one firearm and again would not let Glock examine the faulty firearm or get info on the ammo used. The rumour mill seems to suggest they would prefer to go with Sig Sauer or Beretta.
All that aside my friend own 5 of the M&P, and if I remember correctly he said there were thousands in use at his department without any failures. He has dealt with S&W for many years now and he thinks the line of pistols is top notch.

[SMGLee]

Chen,

I talked to a friend who is in a big department in this area about this. He questioned the validity of their complaints as he said there were about 4 firearms at fault out of a thousand and they would not let S&W examine the firearms. On top of that, he also said that they did the same thing to Glock a few years earlier and based on one firearm and again would not let Glock examine the faulty firearm or get info on the ammo used. The rumour mill seems to suggest they would prefer to go with Sig Sauer or Beretta.
All that aside my friend own 5 of the M&P, and if I remember correctly he said there were thousands in use at his department without any failures. He has dealt with S&W for many years now and he thinks the line of pistols is top notch.

I do agree the S&W M&P are a top notch pistol, I almost use it exclusively nowadays, not that adds any validity to this post...but I do like the grip angle, the ergonomics of the controls and soft shooting felt recoil. overall, SW score a big win in this department.

As far as LASD is concern, they have their internal politics, and it is very sad that they act the way they do accordingly to your friend's statement. but recently LAPD was testing some SW and some failure started to happen. I can not state as to what exactly happened since this is all still internal and classified, but I believe it is putting a damper on the SW's ability to get the M&P into LAPD service.

[Policía Loco]

S&W just recalled 1,600 M&P40s from Atlanta PD for problems with the trigger assembly.

[Geezah]

Wow, I'll let my buddy know next time I see him.

[ortizoner]

S&W just recalled 1,600 M&P40s from Atlanta PD for problems with the trigger assembly.

I was afraid of that, over all its still a good gun (imo, at least), but yeah, ive heard concerns over the trigger before.

[Laconian]

Chen,

I talked to a friend who is in a big department in this area about this. He questioned the validity of their complaints as he said there were about 4 firearms at fault out of a thousand and they would not let S&W examine the firearms. On top of that, he also said that they did the same thing to Glock a few years earlier and based on one firearm and again would not let Glock examine the faulty firearm or get info on the ammo used. The rumour mill seems to suggest they would prefer to go with Sig Sauer or Beretta.
All that aside my friend own 5 of the M&P, and if I remember correctly he said there were thousands in use at his department without any failures. He has dealt with S&W for many years now and he thinks the line of pistols is top notch.

I heard this from the S&W rep a little bit ago. Also, rumor was that a relative of one of the LASD guys works for Sig.


I was afraid of that, over all its still a good gun (imo, at least), but yeah, ive heard concerns over the trigger before.

I think the M&P is a good weapon. I know of several departments carrying them that have had little to no problems and the guys carrying them like them a bunch. I know it (in .40) out performs the Glock 22 with lights mounted.

It's major detractor is it's lack of history of performance that the Glock has established.