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Ordie
05-05-2009, 03:09 PM
Dear Americans: Get over yourselves

Ruben Navarrette Jr., San Diego Union-Tribune (postchat@aol.com)
Tuesday, May 5, 2009
Jean Twenge has a knack for chronicling the obsession that many Americans have with, well, themselves.
In 2006, the psychology professor at San Diego State University wrote a highly informed book on what she called "Generation Me" - Americans in their teens, 20s and 30s who display very healthy levels of self-esteem even if they haven't accomplished much to earn it.
Now, with fellow psychologist W. Keith Campbell, Twenge has co-written a new and timely book titled "The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement."
Twenge thinks the entitlement mentality might have helped cause America's economic crisis.
"People were very overconfident about what size mortgage they could afford and the same thing with the bankers who were giving the loans," she told me. "Everybody was overconfident and didn't anticipate the downside, and so when the downside came, it was worse than anyone imagined."
Twenge has seen it on college campuses. She recalled the student who asked her to postpone a final exam because it interfered with his plans for a birthday outing to Las Vegas.
And in the workforce. She heard from one person who runs a company in Minnesota who said it was not uncommon for employees to call into the office and say they were too tired to come to work and needed to go back to sleep.
In their book, Twenge and Campbell list the factors fueling the entitlement mentality: parenting, schools and a culture that builds self-esteem by giving everyone a trophy; the Internet, where all can shape their images, post their opinions and be their own publicist; celebrity culture and media, which teach Americans that they're entitled to be famous; and ready credit, which, Twenge says, "allows people the fantasy of getting something and not paying for it right away."
What is the harm of all this?
"Narcissism is absolutely toxic to society," Twenge said. "When faced with common resources, narcissists take more for themselves and leave less for others. They tend to be greedy and take too many risks. They feel entitled, don't think about consequences and think that everything will turn out great."
And when things don't turn out great - as with a flailing economy? Often times, when confronted with adversity, failure or even mild setbacks, narcissists fall to pieces.
Lately, I've been collecting my own examples of entitlements - many of them offered by readers.
There was the teacher of eighth-grade honors English who said she was floored by the fact that about one-third of her class thought it was unfair that she gave them a pop quiz. According to the teacher, the students insisted that she tell them about the quiz ahead of time and divulge exactly what was going to be covered. A quiz maybe, but there's not much "pop" to that.
There was the chef who reported that young workers in his kitchen give him strange looks when he asks them "to do something like wash both the inside and outside of a pot or pan or to merely complete a job the best they can." They're more apt to say: "That's not my job!" The chef's response is to tell them that - speaking of jobs - it might be time to look for another one.
Then there was the custom designer and contractor, a former Marine Corps fighter pilot, who insisted that he only hires employees with "very high standards of workmanship." The man said that he had tried, "sometimes desperately, to hire only native-born young men," and pay them well - $12 an hour for workers with limited or no skills and as much as $35 an hour for those with more skills.
However, he said, native-born workers tended to demand the top wages even when they lacked skills, complained about the pace of jobs and missed work. It was, he said, as if they felt entitled to a job. Now, the contractor said, he much preferred "first-generation immigrants, legal and otherwise," who often have an "astounding work ethic, are willing to start at the bottom, will do the job as directed without complaint and will work until the job is done regardless of the hour ... offering up a fair day's work for a fair day's pay."
We need to listen to these stories. They illustrate another consequence of Americans foolishly thinking themselves entitled to things they haven't earned: It puts them at a terrible disadvantage in a global marketplace that is, all the time, getting more competitive and less willing to suffer fools.

Source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/05/EDT417C9C1.DTL&type=printable

millertime
05-05-2009, 03:43 PM
Source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/05/EDT417C9C1.DTL&type=printable


Sad but true... I see it every day.

I have a co-worker, whit limited skill in our field, who claims that since he puts in as many hours as our supervisors... he should be paid just as much. I brought up the fact that they handle far more complex tasks, and can do said tasks without even having to think about it. He said so what, he works the same hours and deserves the same pay.

He would probably blow his top if he knew I made more than him, since he's been with this company for 1 year longer. It would not matter to him that I have about 10 years more experience than him, and have a degree related to our field.

He threw a tantrum and threatened to quit when I brought up that they deserved more, not simply for their skills, but for having to put up with snot-nosed spoiled brats like him.

If this is the future... we're ****ed.

Panchito12
05-05-2009, 04:12 PM
Now, the contractor said, he much preferred "first-generation immigrants, legal and otherwise," who often have an "astounding work ethic, are willing to start at the bottom, will do the job as directed without complaint and will work until the job is done regardless of the hour ... offering up a fair day's work for a fair day's pay."


BULLS**T!!

Translation: The contractor rather employ foreigners, preferably illegal, so that he can pay them minimum salary, deny them benefits, and threaten them with firings if they don't perform his every whim. And oh by the way, even though his costs go way down, the contractor will still charge you and I, the end-customer, the maximum price thus incurring a higher profit allowing him to pocket the difference.

ps: I hire contractors for major projects on a regular basis at my work. If I find out there is ONE SINGLE illegal immigrant it is grounds for terminating said contract (it's in the conditions). I have done it a few times much to the chagrin of the contractor who quickly finds out that he is also banned from further bids. Let's just say that after a few times the whole lot got with the program.

Winger
05-05-2009, 04:16 PM
Shut up and cut me a check! I deserve it.
j/k

Dinges
05-05-2009, 04:25 PM
Ordie thanks for a first class post.

And I agree with the reference to the 'net. People are becoming more insular in their thought methods. Finding an alternative life online. Not only in the US , but allover.

clean
05-05-2009, 04:27 PM
I remember having to pay my dues. F*ck entitlement. We're a meritocracy. Earn it, or go home.

Chulo
05-05-2009, 04:38 PM
watch TV and count how many ads say "you deserve", and look at what platform Obama ran on.
By developing society to ensure EVERYONE has an equal opportunity only puts everyone on the same level as the lowest person. Ensuring all students in the class learn on the same level ensures that the class is taught at the lowest level for the lowest student to learn, and so disregarding and ignoring the smarter ones and removing the competitive nature and goals of the majority of the students.

Ensuring EVERYONE gets a house no matter how bad their credit ensures that bad credit is extended and we see results of that. Grassroots groups like ACORN are at much fault for this economic down turn as those on Wall Street

If people believe in evolution, then what society is doing now is only weakening society. Instead of letting the strongest and smartest survive, we hobble along at the pace of the weakest and do not encourage them to strive to do better, rather let them relax at their substandardness

Breakfast in Vegas
05-05-2009, 04:40 PM
I deserve MP.Net. I really do.

Will Clark
05-05-2009, 05:29 PM
If you don't fight for every benefit you can negotiate, your company will gladly pay you less than you're worth; simple as that. There is a growing entitlement mentality, but you have to separate it from negotiation, where different strategies are used to gain good position.

I learned this the hard way. My second job was as a mechanic with a few years of experience. I did pretty bad in my negotiation in hindsight. I busted ass and was employee of the quarter four times in a row. Never had accidents, was never late, knew company procedures inside and out, and consistently had the most efficient time to money intake ratio. A year later they told me I'd never get a raise, and hired someone with no experience for more money. They squeezed me for an entire year with no intention of allowing me to progress. Well, what's the point? I now have little incentive to excel and strain myself. So I throttled back, still kicked everyone's ass, and took it easy for another year before I went back to school. So long as I was just a little better than everyone else, I never had anything to worry about, and yes, they got upset that I wasn't outputting like crazy anymore. I had no problem letting them know exactly why.

The point is that for your own good, you can only assume that a company will look out for its best interests, so you must look out for yours. I ****ed up and assumed that people naturally want to be fair. I don't think it's entitlement if I try to negotiate for as much as I can, I just assume that they won't hire me for more than they think I'm worth.

If someone cuts in line, chills in the passing lane going slow, asks for a handout, etc; that's entitlement.

philbob
05-05-2009, 05:52 PM
watch TV and count how many ads say "you deserve", and look at what platform Obama ran on.
By developing society to ensure EVERYONE has an equal opportunity only puts everyone on the same level as the lowest person. Ensuring all students in the class learn on the same level ensures that the class is taught at the lowest level for the lowest student to learn, and so disregarding and ignoring the smarter ones and removing the competitive nature and goals of the majority of the students.

Ensuring EVERYONE gets a house no matter how bad their credit ensures that bad credit is extended and we see results of that. Grassroots groups like ACORN are at much fault for this economic down turn as those on Wall Street

If people believe in evolution, then what society is doing now is only weakening society. Instead of letting the strongest and smartest survive, we hobble along at the pace of the weakest and do not encourage them to strive to do better, rather let them relax at their substandardness


:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

The funny thing is its Liberals who are pushing hard for teaching Darwinism in school....

Kilgor
05-05-2009, 06:00 PM
Excuse me, but im kind of more concerned with the "entitlement" culture of Business America, and the trillions of dollars being printed to bail companies that "haven't accomplished much to earn it."

How can you lecture teens about responsibility with this culture goes all the way to the top ?

Violet Fashion by Mindy
05-05-2009, 06:08 PM
Now, the contractor said, he much preferred "first-generation immigrants, legal and otherwise," who often have an "astounding work ethic, are willing to start at the bottom, will do the job as directed without complaint and will work until the job is done regardless of the hour ... offering up a fair day's work for a fair day's pay."


BULLS**T!!

Translation: The contractor rather employ foreigners, preferably illegal, so that he can pay them minimum salary, deny them benefits, and threaten them with firings if they don't perform his every whim. And oh by the way, even though his costs go way down, the contractor will still charge you and I, the end-customer, the maximum price thus incurring a higher profit allowing him to pocket the difference.

ps: I hire contractors for major projects on a regular basis at my work. If I find out there is ONE SINGLE illegal immigrant it is grounds for terminating said contract (it's in the conditions). I have done it a few times much to the chagrin of the contractor who quickly finds out that he is also banned from further bids. Let's just say that after a few times the whole lot got with the program.

See that's the thing. Of course they are going to say how much better these workers are as opposed to organised labour. It's cheaper for them. He makes more money, workers make less money.

Who's the winner.

matthew.manhorn
05-05-2009, 06:13 PM
Thanks for the enlightening article Ordie, the lessons really benefit teenagers like me.

Ordie
05-05-2009, 06:27 PM
Thanks for the enlightening article Ordie, the lessons really benefit teenagers like me.

Good...now get back to work you slacker!!!p-)

tecumseh11
05-05-2009, 06:37 PM
Entitlement mentality? More like employers need to harden the **** up. Stop whining to this Ruben Navarrette Jr., San Diego Union-Tribune (postchat@aol.com) about employees not doing enough, and tell them you expect more.

Invisigoth
05-05-2009, 06:51 PM
Now, the contractor said, he much preferred "first-generation immigrants, legal and otherwise," who often have an "astounding work ethic, are willing to start at the bottom, will do the job as directed without complaint and will work until the job is done regardless of the hour ... offering up a fair day's work for a fair day's pay."


BULLS**T!!

Translation: The contractor rather employ foreigners, preferably illegal, so that he can pay them minimum salary, deny them benefits, and threaten them with firings if they don't perform his every whim. And oh by the way, even though his costs go way down, the contractor will still charge you and I, the end-customer, the maximum price thus incurring a higher profit allowing him to pocket the difference.

ps: I hire contractors for major projects on a regular basis at my work. If I find out there is ONE SINGLE illegal immigrant it is grounds for terminating said contract (it's in the conditions). I have done it a few times much to the chagrin of the contractor who quickly finds out that he is also banned from further bids. Let's just say that after a few times the whole lot got with the program.

Disagree in a European context. If you want to get **** done on your property, you hire some Polish guys under the table. The guy who installed the floor heating in our winter garden was a Polish nuclear physicist. He made that **** happen so fast I didn't even know he was in the house, charged a fair hourly rate for him and his helpers and even vacuumed after he was done.

Had we hired a German company they would have come, made some plans, gone for lunch, come back made some more plans. Then they would have left for four weeks, demanded an initial transaction of 10k Euros and ****ed up the job after four weeks of work.

Same goes for a friend of us who bought an abandoned castle in France. He hired a couple of Polish guys a decade ago. Over ten years, they came back every summer and turned his ruin into a chateau with literally five guys and a hand full of tools. I once saw them rig a tractor engine into a cement mixer so they could get the job done on time. We on the other hand were stupid enough to hire a French company and they ****ed us so hard my ass still hurts.

Screw them idiots.

Hot Lips
05-05-2009, 07:13 PM
I was wondering when the Blame America campaign would start up again.


However, he said, native-born workers tended to demand the top wages even when they lacked skills, complained about the pace of jobs and missed work. It was, he said, as if they felt entitled to a job. Now, the contractor said, he much preferred "first-generation immigrants, legal and otherwise," who often have an "astounding work ethic, are willing to start at the bottom, will do the job as directed without complaint and will work until the job is done regardless of the hour ... offering up a fair day's work for a fair day's pay."


Why don't they complain? Because they shouldn't be on payroll and don't want to be deported.
Why MIGHT they work especially hard? Because they shouldn't be on payroll and don't want to be deported.
Why will they work for less money? Because they shouldn't be on payroll and don't want to be deported.
Why will they work till the work is done regardless of the hour? Because they shouldn't be on payroll and don't want to be deported.

Why do American workers push back when they are being taken advantage of by employers or illegal workers? Because we've fought long and hard to negotiate for wages and benefits and to get employment laws enforced to protect the interests of our domestic workforce.

He acknowledges that he hires illegals "and otherwise" -- hardly a man I'd put much trust in.

"Fair day's work for a fair day's pay"? I thought they were "being taken advantage of by evil American employers who tempt them"? Funny how the story changes from one thread to the next, but the message remains the same - Blame America.

If you want to talk about Entitlement of the corporate owners that bleed their workforce dry or those that go so far as to use illegals as leverage to further attack the income and benefits of their domestic workforce for personal profit - fine. But trying to slip another defense of illegals under the wire (or over the border if you prefer) is hypocrisy since it's their sense of entitlement leads them to turn their backs on the problems in their own country and disobey any law in ours that stands in their way of acquiring what they feel entitled to... namely American jobs.

CantGetRight
05-05-2009, 07:46 PM
watch TV and count how many ads say "you deserve", and look at what platform Obama ran on.
By developing society to ensure EVERYONE has an equal opportunity only puts everyone on the same level as the lowest person. Ensuring all students in the class learn on the same level ensures that the class is taught at the lowest level for the lowest student to learn, and so disregarding and ignoring the smarter ones and removing the competitive nature and goals of the majority of the students.

Ensuring EVERYONE gets a house no matter how bad their credit ensures that bad credit is extended and we see results of that. Grassroots groups like ACORN are at much fault for this economic down turn as those on Wall Street

If people believe in evolution, then what society is doing now is only weakening society. Instead of letting the strongest and smartest survive, we hobble along at the pace of the weakest and do not encourage them to strive to do better, rather let them relax at their substandardness


i love this post

Hot Lips
05-05-2009, 08:14 PM
watch TV and count how many ads say "you deserve", and look at what platform Obama ran on.

By developing society to ensure EVERYONE has an equal opportunity only puts everyone on the same level as the lowest person. Ensuring all students in the class learn on the same level ensures that the class is taught at the lowest level for the lowest student to learn, and so disregarding and ignoring the smarter ones and removing the competitive nature and goals of the majority of the students.

Ensuring EVERYONE gets a house no matter how bad their credit ensures that bad credit is extended and we see results of that. Grassroots groups like ACORN are at much fault for this economic down turn as those on Wall Street

If people believe in evolution, then what society is doing now is only weakening society. Instead of letting the strongest and smartest survive, we hobble along at the pace of the weakest and do not encourage them to strive to do better, rather let them relax at their substandardness

Equal Opportunity is about giving people with equal qualifications the same opportunity to acquire, for example, jobs (e.g., not allowing unscrupulous employers to disqualify someone based on their race, gender, etc). It is NOT meant to put everyone on the same playing field as the least qualified person --- that's something else entirely.

Schools are supposed to ensure that all students meet performance standards. If a student doesn't --- there are programs for that. If a student excels --- there are programs for that. Performance standards are not designed to hold back the progress of exceptional students.

Companies were giving bad loans out to unqualified applicants to make money. It wasn't for charity.

When you push a piece of machinery to perform at it's limits, begin to scale back maintenance, remove parts to push performance beyond recommended standards... the machine ultimately breaks down. That is what the "strong" and "smart" people you are trying to defend did.

Their evolution will come when they realize that they can only stand on the shoulders of those beneath them as long as they maintain the strength of their foundation rather than chipping away at it for (short term) personal gain.

Given the amount of executive bonuses that they allowed those beneath them to further bear the burden for via their bailout funds, I don't think that evolution is coming any time soon for too many.

Dominique
05-05-2009, 08:32 PM
I just wan't to know when I'm getting my reparations check? There's a couple of goodies I'd like to pick up at the gun shop.

Chulo
05-05-2009, 08:33 PM
Equal Opportunity is about giving people with equal qualifications the same opportunity to acquire, for example, jobs (e.g., not allowing unscrupulous employers to disqualify someone based on their race, gender, etc). It is NOT meant to put everyone on the same playing field as the least qualified person --- that's something else entirely.

Schools are supposed to ensure that all students meet performance standards. If a student doesn't --- there are programs for that. If a student excels --- there are programs for that. Performance standards are not designed to hold back the progress of exceptional students.

Companies were giving bad loans out to unqualified applicants to make money. It wasn't for charity.

When you push a piece of machinery to perform at it's limits, begin to scale back maintenance, remove parts to push performance beyond recommended standards... the machine ultimately breaks down. That is what the "strong" and "smart" people you are trying to defend did.

Their evolution will come when they realize that they can only stand on the shoulders of those beneath them as long as they maintain the strength of their foundation rather than chipping away at it for (short term) personal gain.
And those standards that schools are expected to meet and maintain are based on the lower half of what an average student can achieve. Cause if it were based on the higher half, then it would be "unfair"

Performance standards are not designed to hold back the progress of exceptional students.
Look at the "No Child Left Behind" act . It doesnt matter what the exceptional or even better than average student in the class can do, it must be judged on the basis of the lower percentage. Classes start to get boring and are useless and uninformative for those that dont need to be taught 50 times that 1+1 = 2, but if it takes that many times to teach the lower half percent, the they MUST.


Companies were giving bad loans out to unqualified applicants to make money. It wasn't for charity.
I didnt say that it was for charity or that companies dont share some of the blame or reason for whats happening. But groups that push for lower standards for certain demographics because it was showing "racist" policy or push and demand more loans and breaks for people that cant afford or fo that matter even have been exteneded a loan becuse they "deserve it" share the blame.


When you push a piece of machinery to perform at it's limits, begin to scale back maintenance, remove parts to push performance beyond recommended standards... the machine ultimately breaks down. That is what the "strong" and "smart" people you are trying to defend did.I am not defending the "strong" or "smart" rather telling you the system i see in place in America right now. We are not machinery and we do not come with "recommended" settings. Humans did not become what we are because people decided to "not push beyond the recommended standards"
we are who we are because those "Strong" and "Smart" people chose to push beyond the limits, they extended their strength and personal self beyond the "recommended" settings to do something greater and extraordinary. Look at the race to the moon, look at Columbus and the search for the new world, look at Lewis and Clark, look at Hannibal. We are because of those that decided to go beyond the "recommended standards", we exist because of those that rocked the boat and excelled beyond the normal and we are because of those that disregarded others who said they were going beyond their limit.

Ed Robinson
05-05-2009, 08:54 PM
watch TV and count how many ads say "you deserve",
By developing society to ensure EVERYONE has an equal opportunity only puts everyone on the same level as the lowest person. Ensuring all students in the class learn on the same level ensures that the class is taught at the lowest level for the lowest student to learn, and so disregarding and ignoring the smarter ones and removing the competitive nature and goals of the majority of the students.


If people believe in evolution, then what society is doing now is only weakening society. Instead of letting the strongest and smartest survive, we hobble along at the pace of the weakest and do not encourage them to strive to do better, rather let them relax at their substandardness

I fully agree, I have seen the way the education system in Australia has fallen away over the last 20 years.

Don’t strive to achieve as we seem to reward mediocrity, don’t fail anyone as it may hurt feelings, can’t pass? Lower the standards.

Probably a parents lament the world over and through the ages.

Hot Lips
05-05-2009, 08:57 PM
I think I see where we are miscommunicating. I thought this was another one of your defend the CEO's and greed posts. I can see now it's really about "those people". The Hitler/watermelon avatar suddenly makes sense. :| Pointless to continue really. Have fun at your next gathering.

Chulo
05-05-2009, 09:00 PM
I think I see where we are miscommunicating. I thought this was another one of your defend the CEO's and greed posts. I can see now it's really about "those people". The Hitler/watermelon avatar suddenly makes sense. :| Pointless to continue really. Have fun at your next gathering.
Im not trying to insult you or call you any names.
A simple question would be if you agree with the "No child left behind" Act ?

California Joe
05-05-2009, 09:50 PM
On January 8, 2002, President Bush signed into law the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, reauthorizing the Elementary and Secondary...I don't see ACORN anywhere...If you have a hardon for them, or Obama, or the Teachers Union, or just those low born mud people...it should probably be in seperate threads...

Chulo, are you on crack tonight or what? I don't know about you, but my kids are 16 and 13 and they are challenged all to Hell with their classes. My daughter is taking 5 accelerated college prep classes out of 8 classes in her Senior year next year, and my son is up to his arse in Math and History at an accelerated level in 8th grade.

Sure they should have more Dodgeball in school, or maybe some corporal punishment now and then. But frankly, dumbing down science to include bible study while we languish in that field internationally as a solution, is like saving the auto industry by bringing back the Gremlin or the AMC Pacer.

Chulo
05-05-2009, 10:13 PM
On January 8, 2002, President Bush signed into law the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, reauthorizing the Elementary and Secondary...I don't see ACORN anywhere...If you have a hardon for them, or Obama, or the Teachers Union, or just those low born mud people...it should probably be in seperate threads...

Chulo, are you on crack tonight or what? I don't know about you, but my kids are 16 and 13 and they are challenged all to Hell with their classes. My daughter is taking 5 accelerated college prep classes out of 8 classes in her Senior year next year, and my son is up to his arse in Math and History at an accelerated level in 8th grade.

Sure they should have more Dodgeball in school, or maybe some corporal punishment now and then. But frankly, dumbing down science to include bible study while we languish in that field internationally as a solution, is like saving the auto industry by bringing back the Gremlin or the AMC Pacer.
ACORN and No Child Left Behind are two different issues. I mentioned grassroots organizations that " champion" the entitlement to owning a home. Education is the other matter that ACORN has no issue with. I did not bring up any political party, i was commenting on the system and how it is structured today. I did not mention Bush or Obama or any political party.

You mention your children, and the fact that they have to take accelerated classes to be challenged. But if you look at the educational trend and global standards then America is falling behind. NCLB has plenty of criticism and short comings and i am just pointing that out.

Walter Sobchak
05-05-2009, 10:14 PM
I just wan't to know when I'm getting my reparations check? There's a couple of goodies I'd like to pick up at the gun shop.

Hell, I'm Cherokee, Choctaw, Irish, Scottish, German, English and no telling what else. I'm sure my ancestors were enslaved, starved, thrown into debtors' prison, deported from ancestral lands, turned out, cleared off the highlands, driven off, sold into indentured servitude, persecuted, hunted, called names, bitten by the landlord's dog, chased away by the sheriff, jailed for loitering, stolen from, sold fake Winchesters to and bilked of land with oil on it....

Where are my reparations from Europe, the USA, the Vatican, Big Oil, the State of Oklahoma and the Five Civilized Tribes? As my old Cherokee-Choctaw granny used to say, "Boy, go wish in one hand and sh*t in the other one and see which one gets full first!"

I guess it's off to work tomorrow...

sinophile
05-05-2009, 10:29 PM
Terrific and spot-on post. Really important article.

Hot Lips
05-05-2009, 11:27 PM
Terrific and spot-on post. Really important article.

So "important" it relies on quotes from a contractor that breaks laws and hires illegals. One trying to illegally keep more profits for himself, the other trying to illegally take what is left --- both willingly undermining and disingenuously blaming American workers in general for their own lack of integrity.



Americans foolishly thinking themselves entitled to things they haven't earned

We have earned the employment laws in place to protect us from unscrupulous employers and employees... like those this author references. Americans have earned the right to be considered for domestic jobs over illegals that should not even be here to apply for them.

PeterRJG
05-05-2009, 11:33 PM
Hell, I'm Cherokee, Choctaw, Irish, Scottish, German, English and no telling what else.

Not Ukrainian?

Walter Sobchak
05-05-2009, 11:55 PM
Not Ukrainian?

Possibly... who knows. :)

PeterRJG
05-06-2009, 12:31 AM
Possibly... who knows. :)

With a name like Sobchak, I'd a thunk you'd be a Ruskie or a Ukrainian somewhere down the line.

Anyhow, going off track here.

Nano
05-06-2009, 02:06 AM
The article is good, but a bit lacking in government's role in all of this "entitlement mentality". I hope the writer is working on his next installment titled The Entitlement Mentality of the American Political Government. It is true there is an entitlement mentality in this country, but it is not new as the writer proposes; it is inherited. The majority of entitlement programs have their origins with FDR's New Deal. In large part this entitlement mentality stems from government. If it were not because of well intended programs we'd not be sunk for generations into needless debt. The bankers ,teachers, UAW, and numerous other mafia groups all believe they are entitled to someone else's future and current earnings.

deagle
05-06-2009, 02:08 AM
sad thing is, its true.

CEO's make all the messed up decisions, and they're the last to resign (not fired), and with a hefty "severance" package. like them AIG scum who feel entitled to bonuses for losing money for their company and laying off fellow Americans.

Noble713
05-06-2009, 04:27 AM
Regardless of the illegal worker issue, everything here:


In their book, Twenge and Campbell list the factors fueling the entitlement mentality: parenting, schools and a culture that builds self-esteem by giving everyone a trophy; the Internet, where all can shape their images, post their opinions and be their own publicist; celebrity culture and media, which teach Americans that they're entitled to be famous; and ready credit, which, Twenge says, "allows people the fantasy of getting something and not paying for it right away."

is spot on. Tyler Durden had it right: "You are not a beautiful snowflake."

XShipRider
05-06-2009, 06:30 AM
The faux-wealth of middle to low income America has come home to roost. The party's over folks. It's time to pay the tab we've been running since the prosperous 50s. Unfortunately, we ain't got it.

Vandervahn
05-06-2009, 10:18 AM
The article is good, but a bit lacking in government's role in all of this "entitlement mentality". ...

Because that is a completely different topic that only shares the same name. The article is about a social phenomenon.

keeperofpeace
05-06-2009, 01:40 PM
we've been the center of the universe for 60 years now so its hard to change ones mental image of themselves

Mr.K
05-06-2009, 03:40 PM
The faux-wealth of middle to low income America has come home to roost. The party's over folks. It's time to pay the tab we've been running since the prosperous 50s. Unfortunately, we ain't got it.

South korean dictature FTWp-). No more vacations, no more picking your study field, you will study and work where the government tells you, and you'll do it until the whole country succeeds.

Nano
05-08-2009, 02:43 AM
Because that is a completely different topic that only shares the same name. The article is about a social phenomenon.

I agree in part that the topic is specific (Entitlement Mentality of America). Governments are a social phenomenon and in this case the entitlement mentality in the citizenry is reinforced by those they elect and vise versa. I thought the article was well written and made accurate points, but I'm interested to know the author's perspective on government in all of this.

redhawk_six
05-08-2009, 03:45 AM
Spot on article, with the exception of the illegal worker stuff. What's ironic is in admitting to using illegals, that contractor is display his sense of entitlement while slamming US workers for having one... Just goes to show how deep it runs.

I believe it'll be the sense of entitlement that'll lead to the downfall of modern society. Not terrorists, not pinko socialists, not nukes, not global warming, not extremists, but the greed and entitlement mind set that infects every part of modern society, from the govt and CEOs, to the working class. We're already seeing the effect it's had on the economy.

Adux
05-08-2009, 03:53 AM
And those standards that schools are expected to meet and maintain are based on the lower half of what an average student can achieve. Cause if it were based on the higher half, then it would be "unfair"
Look at the "No Child Left Behind" act . It doesnt matter what the exceptional or even better than average student in the class can do, it must be judged on the basis of the lower percentage. Classes start to get boring and are useless and uninformative for those that dont need to be taught 50 times that 1+1 = 2, but if it takes that many times to teach the lower half percent, the they MUST.

I didnt say that it was for charity or that companies dont share some of the blame or reason for whats happening. But groups that push for lower standards for certain demographics because it was showing "racist" policy or push and demand more loans and breaks for people that cant afford or fo that matter even have been exteneded a loan becuse they "deserve it" share the blame.

I am not defending the "strong" or "smart" rather telling you the system i see in place in America right now. We are not machinery and we do not come with "recommended" settings. Humans did not become what we are because people decided to "not push beyond the recommended standards"
we are who we are because those "Strong" and "Smart" people chose to push beyond the limits, they extended their strength and personal self beyond the "recommended" settings to do something greater and extraordinary. Look at the race to the moon, look at Columbus and the search for the new world, look at Lewis and Clark, look at Hannibal. We are because of those that decided to go beyond the "recommended standards", we exist because of those that rocked the boat and excelled beyond the normal and we are because of those that disregarded others who said they were going beyond their limit.


Ayn Rand will be proud of you,and So am I, Excellent post!
I am a citizen of state of kerala in the democratic republic of India; a state which has elected the first ever democratically elected Communist regime. We have a more social index than Canada, yup in India, check the Kerala Model in Google. But at the same time, the work ethics, the entitlement mentality, education and every other factor which makes us humans on top of the food chain, is going down the drain. I am here, and the US wants to be of same mould as my kind, all I can say is,DONT!

NavyTimes
05-08-2009, 04:57 AM
The first post of this topic could just as well be written over here.