Ad-hoc Recognition armbands / tapes.

[Connaught Ranger]

In another thread were posted quite a lot of misconceptions with regards pictures of troops wearing ad-hoc identity tape / armbands.

This has often been encountered down through history and used as a field - expediency measure to aid identification.

It was never planned to use them on a permanent basis.

In Verdun, France, during WW1 German assault troops wore a white brassard on the left arm to distinguish them from the French army.

By early 1916 most of the Germans were wearing Pickelhauben with the spike removed, which made the helmets look a lot like the French Adrian.

If men were covered with mud and the battlefield was swathed in smoke and/or fog, it would be easy to mistake your friend for your enemy, and vice versa.

In WW2, particularly when the Germans were wearing Snow-camo, saw the use of thin red armbands on the arms, alternatively being worn on the left or right and occasionally on both arms as directed by orders of the day.

Please feel free to post any pictures of such armbands you may have.

Connaught Ranger. :)

[kitatatsumi]

So I am guessing it was situations just like the ones you explained which have left us with our modern National colors.

I mean, red is the accepted color of the UK. Why?
I believe in the past, with similar/identical clothing, each nation/kingdom used a specific color to identify themselves on the field.
I read somewhere it was something like:
Spain-Hapsburg=Red
Sweden=Yellow
France=Blue
NL=Orange

I would be interested to know how and if these two points are related.
Sorry, no photos.

[Connaught Ranger]

So I am guessing it was situations just like the ones you explained which have left us with our modern National colors.

I mean, red is the accepted color of the UK. Why?
I believe in the past, with similar/identical clothing, each nation/kingdom used a specific color to identify themselves on the field.
I read somewhere it was something like:
Spain-Hapsburg=Red
Sweden=Yellow
France=Blue
NL=Orange

I would be interested to know how and if these two points are related.
Sorry, no photos.

I am afraid its not as simple as that, national colours were developed by the ruling families, the longer the family stayed in power and displayed their colours the more accepted or traditional they became.

A very basic history lesson from the mists of time and many bar rooms. :p

With regards England the colours were red and white, British crusaders carried these colours on the march to the Holy land, along with the lions of the Lionheart family.

The Colours of Scotland were a diagonal white cross on a blue background and the colours of Wales a red diagonal cross on a white background eventually became joined in one as the Royal "Jack" or Royal Flag of the Union.

As for bright and colorful Uniforms the prerogative was down to the King or Queen in Power, most liked to show off their impressive military in bright colours with no thoughts what so ever in hiding them, The British ended up from the 1700's in Red Coats with different colour front Lapels and leather equipment straps painted white, although "Mad" King George III plan to change the Royal Navy into Red was never implemented.rofl
The colour combination's throughout history are many and varied and themselves are a fascinating subject to research.

Connaught Ranger.:)

[Faecal Agitator]

Slightly off tangent but related ....... WW2 D-Day markings on the Allied aircraft. Too lazy at the moment to find an image.

[StukaJr]

Soviet Naval Infantry wore white recognition arm bands on left arm during the famous night raid under command of Major Kunikov in February of 1943 - for recognition of friendlies in the dark.

[Molli]

I mean, red is the accepted color of the UK. Why?
It is said that red is the colour of the British Army because when the New Model Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Model_Army) was being formed, red dye was the cheapest. ...Could be bollocks, mind! :)

[Molli]

A more accurate explanation!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_coat_(British_army) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_coat_%28British_army%29).

[Molli]

The Colours of Scotland were a diagonal white cross on a blue background and the colours of Wales a red diagonal cross on a white background eventually became joined in one as the Royal "Jack" or Royal Flag of the Union.
There is no representation of Wales on the Union Flag. The red saltire is that of St. Patrick - it represents Ireland. Why? Wales isn't a country. There is no union with Wales; Wales was conquered. :)


As for bright and colorful Uniforms the prerogative was down to the King or Queen in Power, most liked to show off their impressive military in bright colours with no thoughts what so ever in hiding them, The British ended up from the 1700's in Red Coats with different colour front Lapels and leather equipment straps painted white [...]
One needs to be mindful of just how battles were fought back then. Smoke from muskets and cannon would have made identification near impossible if uniforms were all khaki and olive...

(Bugger! I wish I had more time... [I love all this stuff.])

[Connaught Ranger]

There is no representation of Wales on the Union Flag. The red saltire is that of St. Patrick - it represents Ireland. Why? Wales isn't a country. There is no union with Wales; Wales was conquered. :)

My bad, I blame a lack of coffee, anyway St. Pat was a Welsh Roman tourist. :p


One needs to be mindful of just how battles were fought back then. Smoke from muskets and cannon would have made identification near impossible if uniforms were all khaki and olive.

It had to do more with fashion, pom and pageantry or the look I have more toy soldiers than you mentality! And the tradition went back to long before firearms were common on the battlefields.

(Bugger! :( I wish I had more time... [I love all this stuff.])

Connaught Ranger:hug:

[kitatatsumi]

As soon as you mentioned the red cross from the Crusades I knew I was wrong.:oops:
That totally makes sense Con. Ranger.
Perhaps I was just thinking that the armbands or colored sashes used in the past were arbitrary where in fact they were clearly chosen for a reason?

[Molli]

It had to do more with fashion, pom and pageantry or the look I have more toy soldiers than you mentality! And the tradition went back to long before firearms were common on the battlefields.
Never has it not been about pomp: paintings of Medusa on hoplons; woad on naked bodies and lime in spiked hair; Jupiter's bolts on scuta; lions rampant on tunics and wyverns on banners; gilding on black breast plates... But, as the musket, cannon and rifle replaced the sword, pike and bow, we see the uniform become a tactical tool; the contemporary IFF system. Until that time, uniforms, of course, existed, but they would have been - since the decline of the Roman Empire - mainly the preserve of professionals - standing forces.

Then, as technology marched forward, it became time to think about not being seen...

[2495]

In WW2, the German Army had foreign volunteers working in auxillary posts - these volunteers were given arm bands that read

"Im Deinst Der Deutschen Wehrmacht"

They were also given a small badge to sew into the inside material of their jacket lapel.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7291/7jpgp.jpg

The guy with the armband is thus the volunteer from overseas.

[Connaught Ranger]

In WW2, the German Army had foreign volunteers working in auxillary posts - these volunteers were given arm bands that read

"Im Deinst Der Deutschen Wehrmacht"

They were also given a small badge to sew into the inside material of their jacket lapel.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7291/7jpgp.jpg

The guy with the armband is thus the volunteer from overseas.

The Germans were probably the most prolific users of named identification armbands in any military before and after WW2. Particularly as the war went on.

Connaught Ranger.:)

[Ed Robinson]

Some of the Australian battalions in Vietnam and the Malaya/Borneo conflict had coloured tape woven through the loops on the hat for recognition. I believe the Brits did the same in Malaya/Borneo.
I saw a photograph just recently from Vietnam and I was surprised how bright the yellow tape was.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Field dressings can be used as an ad hoc improvised identification aid

[ferguson]

Working with the CIDG on the Cambodian border we usually wore colored scarfs.

After a while everybody in the jungle begins to kook alike.
Sweat, dirt, poor light, and dense vegitation makes identification very difficult at times.

[Hollis]

Working with the CIDG on the Cambodian border we usually wore colored scarfs.

After a while everybody in the jungle begins to kook alike.
Sweat, dirt, poor light, and dense vegitation makes identification very difficult at times.

We wore camis and as you mentioned they would turn a greasy brown color. One of our FF incidents the company was moving on a horse shoe shape ridge. The front element saw the rear element, both were heading in the opposite direction. The Bac Biet(NVA), looked similar to us. Fortunately no one was seriously injured.

General rule at night, (sort of a common joke) When there is movement towards ones position.

If there is music playing, they are ARVN.

If there is cussing, they are Marine.

If they are very quite, they are Charlie.

[Vince S]

Some of the Australian battalions in Vietnam and the Malaya/Borneo conflict had coloured tape woven through the loops on the hat for recognition. I believe the Brits did the same in Malaya/Borneo.
I saw a photograph just recently from Vietnam and I was surprised how bright the yellow tape was.



I remember reading somewhere it was para cord onto the loops of their jungle hats

[LineDoggie]

Some US Use:

1942 North Africa- Operation Torch
American forces issued a flag Armband in the hope that Vichy wouldnt fire upon them*

1st Ranger Bn at Arzew wears white armbands on both upper arms during their landing

1944 Europe
Normandy- Operation Overlord 82nd wear flag armband for drop
Southern France- Operation Dragoon flag armbands issued**
Holland- Operation Market Garden, 82nd & 101st issued flag armbands for drop

1967 Vietnam- Operation Junction City, 503rd Abn wears engineer tape taped on helmet covers for DZ recognition

1989 Panama- Operation Just Cause
US forces use white engineer tape around arms as some PDF units equipped with BDU's M16's & K-pots

* UK No. 6 Commando is outfitted in US helmets, M1's and GI Field Jackets for the landings in the hope the french wont fire upon them.

** Photographs also show British Airborne(2nd Independent Parachute Brigade) wearing Union flag armbands during this operation

[GazB]

Sounds a bit like the Orange triangles the US and allied forces used in Desert Storm.
Not totally effective.

Regarding the commment that initiated you thinking about it in Georgia it wasn't the Russian forces wearing white armbands, it was South Ossetian forces wearing them so they could be distinguished from the Georgian forces. The Georgian forces were certainly equipped by NATO, but only a minority. Most of the Georgian forces had a range of ex-Soviet uniforms and equipment and that is why the South Ossetians wore white arm bands... to look different from the invaders.