The Perils of Apology

[locopolicia]

More than 60 years after the end of World War II, chilly relations in East Asia stand in stark contrast to the thaw in western Europe. Germans have spent decades confronting and atoning for the crimes of the Nazi era. Today, Germany is welcomed as a leader in trade and diplomacy, and its military forces fight alongside those of its allies in UN and NATO operations. In 2004, the former Allies invited German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder to the 60th anniversary commemoration of the Normandy invasion. Standing beside the leaders of Germany's former adversaries, Schröder celebrated the day as the anniversary of Germany's liberation from fascism. French newspapers, featuring photos of the French and German leaders embracing, proclaimed it "the last day of World War II."
In Asia, by contrast, Japan's neighbors still keep a wary watch over the country that brutalized them in the early part of the twentieth century. Tokyo's official apologies for its past aggression and atrocities are dismissed as too little, too late. Worse, they often trigger denials and calls of revisionism in Japan, which anger and alarm the country's former victims. In 2005, when Japan's Education Ministry approved textbooks widely perceived as whitewashing Japan's past atrocities, violent protests erupted across China. Demonstrators overturned and torched Japanese cars, vandalized Japanese-owned businesses, and threw rocks and bottles at Japan's embassy in Beijing. Chinese and South Koreans routinely express fear that Japan may return to militarism: even Tokyo's dispatch of peacekeepers abroad creates unease. In East Asia, the last day of World War II has yet to come.
Why do Japan's neighbors care so much about its repentance? Skeptics, after all, might dismiss political apologies and other such gestures as "cheap talk." But how countries remember their pasts conveys information about their future behavior. Historically, states that have sought to mobilize their populaces for war have crafted nationalist narratives of the past. They have emphasized their adversaries' prior violence and have justified (or simply forgotten) their own. On the other hand, a willingness to acknowledge past atrocities signals peaceful foreign policy intentions. It also shows a state's commitment to human rights and conveys respect for another people's suffering.


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/64975/jennifer-lind/the-perils-of-apology

[deagle]

i think its the fact that Germany has owned up, moved ahead, and did alot more to fix up their image. its pretty much clear that the German ppl will admit that yeah, it happened, but it was during a different time and with different idiotology. sadly, that idiotology still exists w/neo-nazis. the japanes on the otherhand, tend to pass it off that horrific atrocities were nothing. sincere apologies are necessary before forgive/forget.

if someone slighted you, wouldn't you want an apology before moving on ?

[ren0312]

i think its the fact that Germany has owned up, moved ahead, and did alot more to fix up their image. its pretty much clear that the German ppl will admit that yeah, it happened, but it was during a different time and with different idiotology. sadly, that idiotology still exists w/neo-nazis. the japanes on the otherhand, tend to pass it off that horrific atrocities were nothing. sincere apologies are necessary before forgive/forget.

if someone slighted you, wouldn't you want an apology before moving on ?

The Japanese actually have a very strong pacifist streak, in fact that pacifist sentiment is equal, if not stronger than in Germany.

[Midav]

In 2005, when Japan's Education Ministry approved textbooks widely perceived as whitewashing Japan's past atrocities, violent protests erupted across China. Demonstrators overturned and torched Japanese cars, vandalized Japanese-owned businesses, and threw rocks and bottles at Japan's embassy in Beijing.

I would like to know the age group of these people.

No, I am not saying what the education minister did was right. Just would like to know the age group of these demonstrators.

[Ordie]

The PRC government legitimacy is based on continued economic growth and nationalism. An important part of this nationalism is an emphasis on continuing the victim narrative to the next generation of Chinese.

While channel surfing Chinese TV in Bejing last month, I came across two to three Anti-Japanese soap operas and historical drama. Billboards of the latest movies follow this anti-Japanese theme including a film of little boys killing Japanese soldiers with Kung Fu.

There's even alot of historical revisionism at play. At the PLA Museum in Beijing, large historical displays of the Red Army winning battles are everywhere. With little or no credit to the KMT and Allied forces. It also neglected the fact that the Japanese forces in China were intact with the help of Chinese collaborators by 1945.

The museum also neglected the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution and the Tienanmen square crackdown in 1989.

Much of this Anti-Japanese TV productions only serves to perpetuate the victimhood and anger towards the Japanese. So much so that my personal guide, a 25 year old English major student told me she hated the Japanese. I asked if she had ever met one, she said no. Then she asked me if I ever been to Japan and met the Japanese. I said yes and I find the Japanese very sincere, respectful and polite.

She gave me a wierd look.

[tecumseh11]

While channel surfing Chinese TV in Bejing last month, I came across two to three Anti-Japanese soap operas and historical drama.

So? The West makes a butt load of WWII and Holocaust movies.


Billboards of the latest movies follow this anti-Japanese theme including a film of little boys killing Japanese soldiers with Kung Fu.

Defiance



There's even alot of historical revisionism at play. At the PLA Museum in Beijing, large historical displays of the Red Army winning battles are everywhere. With little or no credit to the KMT and Allied forces. It also neglected the fact that the Japanese forces in China were intact with the help of Chinese collaborators by 1945.

Saving Private Ryan.



The museum also neglected the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution and the Tienanmen square crackdown in 1989.


Where are the Vietnam War movies????

[XShipRider]

sincere apologies are necessary before forgive/forget.

if someone slighted you, wouldn't you want an apology before moving on ?

1. Get thicker skin
2. If it happened to ancestors then it didn't happen to "you" (couple generations)
3. Words, though they can be dangerous, are just words - actions are the truly dangerous part
4. The Japanese suffered some handy incendiary attacks (Germans too) and two A-bombs, that put a nice dent in the whole atrocities thing

I'm not saying there isn't a time for apology. What I am saying is, the timing and verbiage must be measured. Once two generations has passed the apology is being extended to people with little to no comprehension of the actual atrocity(ies).

[BugHunt]

The PRC government legitimacy is based on continued economic growth and nationalism. An important part of this nationalism is an emphasis on continuing the victim narrative to the next generation of Chinese.

While channel surfing Chinese TV in Bejing last month, I came across two to three Anti-Japanese soap operas and historical drama. Billboards of the latest movies follow this anti-Japanese theme including a film of little boys killing Japanese soldiers with Kung Fu.

There's even alot of historical revisionism at play. At the PLA Museum in Beijing, large historical displays of the Red Army winning battles are everywhere. With little or no credit to the KMT and Allied forces. It also neglected the fact that the Japanese forces in China were intact with the help of Chinese collaborators by 1945.

The museum also neglected the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution and the Tienanmen square crackdown in 1989.

Much of this Anti-Japanese TV productions only serves to perpetuate the victimhood and anger towards the Japanese. So much so that my personal guide, a 25 year old English major student told me she hated the Japanese. I asked if she had ever met one, she said no. Then she asked me if I ever been to Japan and met the Japanese. I said yes and I find the Japanese very sincere, respectful and polite.

She gave me a wierd look.

In that respect (the legacy of ww2) one fukked up area of the world. Without cultures willing and enlightened enough to have a honest look at there past - theyll be a legacy of mistrust and anger...

Im with deagle on this one though, the lack of a real earnst sincere apology just plays right into the CCP hands....


Sorry coming out with a nod towards fire or A bombs doesnt cut it in the slightest.


Lets hope they can all move on without any bloodshed....

[CombatBoots]

I believe it must have something to do with how a full appology would be perceived by the people of the country, like Obama's so called "Appology World Tour" gives him such harsh criticism, this could be an example and even a mild example.

If the people feel no guilt over what was done, it would take a really strong and daring politician to stand up and commit political suicide by doing what's right but what is not accepted by his voters. (At least most of them, and no I don't mean to say that Obama is strong and Daring, neither that he isn't this is not about him now)

[Ordie]

I believe it must have something to do with how a full appology would be perceived by the people of the country, like Obama's so called "Appology World Tour" gives him such harsh criticism, this could be an example and even a mild example.

There has been countless of Japanese PM's, and officials in the past 40 years who had aplologized both the ROC and PRC on account of the second Sino Japanese War. (WW2).

In fact I'm willing to bet that Japan is probably China's one of its largest donor country and investor including providing 14.9 million dollars to combat SARS.

Without Japanese investment, technology and resources, the PRC would not be as rich as quickly as it did with factories, assembly lines and products.

Yet China never teaches the importance of foreign investments during the Deng period, only that we're all freakin devils not to be trusted and they've been wronged. Playing the victim.

The Japanese have moved beyond the war and work hard not to be belligerant. So much so, Japan is the least nationalist country I've been to.

[acosta]

weired look means" you look inapropriate or kind of foolish", you are not supposed say so in that moment, at least in chinese way. it's an etiquette thing, nothing more.



The PRC government legitimacy is based on continued economic growth and nationalism. An important part of this nationalism is an emphasis on continuing the victim narrative to the next generation of Chinese.

While channel surfing Chinese TV in Bejing last month, I came across two to three Anti-Japanese soap operas and historical drama. Billboards of the latest movies follow this anti-Japanese theme including a film of little boys killing Japanese soldiers with Kung Fu.

There's even alot of historical revisionism at play. At the PLA Museum in Beijing, large historical displays of the Red Army winning battles are everywhere. With little or no credit to the KMT and Allied forces. It also neglected the fact that the Japanese forces in China were intact with the help of Chinese collaborators by 1945.

The museum also neglected the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution and the Tienanmen square crackdown in 1989.

Much of this Anti-Japanese TV productions only serves to perpetuate the victimhood and anger towards the Japanese. So much so that my personal guide, a 25 year old English major student told me she hated the Japanese. I asked if she had ever met one, she said no. Then she asked me if I ever been to Japan and met the Japanese. I said yes and I find the Japanese very sincere, respectful and polite.

She gave me a wierd look.

[acosta]

partly true, but not all. i believe you are a japan experts since you know countless PM's apologies, but you overlook the important part.

you don't know Japan had not compensated for world war 2 to china, as the end war negociation required, partly because the civil war in china? not sure. but that amount should be huge, many many times than the donation japan ever made. thus there might be "tacitly consent to the donation, as, for the communist government to calm nationalist people".

china's major investment come from all of the world, more than half from overseas chinese business men and hk, taiwan, southease asia. japan's check out some data when you make a point.


There has been countless of Japanese PM's, and officials in the past 40 years who had aplologized both the ROC and PRC on account of the second Sino Japanese War. (WW2).

In fact I'm willing to bet that Japan is probably China's one of its largest donor country and investor including providing 14.9 million dollars to combat SARS.

Without Japanese investment, technology and resources, the PRC would not be as rich as quickly as it did with factories, assembly lines and products.

Yet China never teaches the importance of foreign investments during the Deng period, only that we're all freakin devils not to be trusted and they've been wronged. Playing the victim.

The Japanese have moved beyond the war and work hard not to be belligerant. So much so, Japan is the least nationalist country I've been to.

[cbreedon]

maybe it has something to do with the Asian concept of face.... Euros don't take the concept to the extreme like they do in Asia.

[Ordie]

you don't know Japan had not compensated for world war 2 to china, as the end war treaty required, partly because the civil war in china?


The Republic of China signed a peace treaty with Japan in 1957. (Treaty of Taipei)



Treaty of Peace between the Republic of China and Japan
Signed at Taipei, 28 April 1952
Entered into force, 5 August 1952, by the exchange of the instruments of ratification at Taipei


TREATY OF PEACE
The Republic of China and Japan,
Considering their mutual desire for good neighbourliness in view of their historical and cultural ties and geographical proximity; Realising the importance of their close cooperation to the promotion of their common welfare and to the maintenance of international peace and security; Recognising the need for a settlement of problems that have arisen as a result of the existence of a state of war between them; Have resolved to conclude a Treaty of Peace and have accordingly appointed as their Plenipotentiaries,
His Excellency the President of the Republic of China: Mr. YEH KUNG-CHAO;
The Government of Japan: Mr. ISAO KAWADA
Who, having communicated to each other their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed upon the following Articles:—

Article 1
The state of war between the Republic of China and Japan is terminated as from the date on which the present Treaty enters into force.
Article 2
It is recognised that under Article 2 (http://www.taiwandocuments.org/sanfrancisco01.htm#art2) of the Treaty of Peace which Japan signed at the city of San Francisco on 8 September 1951 (hereinafter referred to as the San Francisco Treaty), Japan has renounced all right, title, and claim to Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores) as well as the Spratley Islands and the Paracel Islands.
Article 3
The disposition of property of Japan and its nationals in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores), and their claims, including debts, against the authorities of the Republic of China in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores) and the residents thereof, and the disposition in Japan of property of such authorities and residents and their claims, including debts, against Japan and its nationals, shall be the subject of special arrangements between the Government of the Republic of China and the Government of Japan. The terms nationals and residents include juridical persons.
Article 4
It is recognised that all treaties, conventions, and agreements concluded before 9 December 1941 between Japan and China have become null and void as a consequence of the war.
Article 5
It is recognised that under the provisions of Article 10 (http://www.taiwandocuments.org/sanfrancisco01.htm#art10) of the San Francisco Treaty, Japan has renounced all special rights and its interests in China, including all benefits and privileges resulting from the provisions of the final Protocol signed at Peking on 7 September 1901, and all annexes, notes, and documents supplementary thereto, and has agreed to the abrogation in respect to Japan of the said protocol, annexes, notes, and documents.
Article 6
(a) The Republic of China and Japan will be guided by the principles of Article 2 (http://www.taiwandocuments.org/charter.htm#art2) of the Charter of the United Nations in their mutual relations.
(b) The Republic of China and Japan will cooperate in accordance with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and, in particular, will promote their common welfare through friendly cooperation in the economic field.
Article 7
The Republic of China and Japan will endeavour to conclude, as soon as possible, a treaty or agreement to place their trading, maritime, and other commercial relations, on a stable and friendly basis.
Article 8
The Republic of China and Japan will endeavour to conclude, as soon as possible, an agreement relating to civil air transport.
Article 9
The Republic of China and Japan will endeavour to conclude, as soon as possible, an agreement providing for the regulation or limitation of fishing and the conservation and development of fisheries on the high seas.
Article 10
For the purposes of the present Treaty, nationals of the Republic of China shall be deemed to include all the inhabitants and former inhabitants of Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores) and their descendents who are of the Chinese nationality in accordance with the laws and regulations which have been or may hereafter be enforced by the Republic of China in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores); and juridical persons of the Republic of China shall be deemed to include all those registered under the laws and regulations which have been or may hereafter be enforced by the Republic of China in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores).
Article 11
Unless otherwise provided for in the present Treaty and the documents supplementary thereto, any problem arising between the Republic of China and Japan as a result of the existence of a state of war shall be settled in accordance with the relevant provisions of the San Francisco Treaty.
Article 12
Any dispute that may arise out of the interpretation or application of the present Treaty shall be settled by negotiation or other pacific means.
Article 13
The present Treaty shall be ratified and the instruments of ratification shall be exchanged at Taipei as soon as possible. The present Treaty shall enter into force as from the date on which such instruments of ratification are exchanged.
Article 14
The present Treaty shall be in the Chinese, Japanese, and English languages. In case of any divergence of interpretation, the English text shall prevail.
In witness whereof the respective Plenipotentiaries have signed the present Treaty and have affixed thereto their seals.
Done in duplicate at Taipei, this Twenty Eighth day of the Fourth month of the Forty First year of the REPUBLIC OF CHINA, corresponding to the Twenty Eighth day of the Fourth month of the Twenty Seventh year of SHOWA of Japan and to the Twenty Eighth day of April in the year One Thousand Nine Hundred and Fifty Two.

YEH KUNG-CHAO, [L.S.]
Minister of Foreign Affairs and
Plenipotentiary of the Republic of China
ISAO KAWADA, [L.S.]
Minister of Foreign Affairs and
Plenipotentiary of Japan


It wasn't until 1978 when the People's Republic of China signed a peace treaty with Japan.



TREATY OF PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN JAPAN AND THE PEOPLE'S
REPUBLIC OF CHINA


August 12, 1978
Japan and the People's Republic of China,
Recalling with satisfaction that since the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China issued a Joint Communique in Peking on September 29, 1972, the friendly relations between the two Governments and the peoples of the two countries have developed greatly on a new basis.
Confirming that the above-mentioned Joint Communique constitutes the basis of the relations of peace and friendship between the two countries and that the principles enunciated in the Joint Communique should be strictly observed.
Confirming that the principles of the Charter of the United Nations should be fully respected.
Hoping to contribute to peace and stability in Asia and in the world.
For the purpose of solidifying and developing the relations of peace and friendship between the two countries.
Have resolved to conclude a Treaty of Peace and Friendship and for that purpose have appointed as their Plenipotentiaries:

Japan: Minister for Foreign Affairs Sunao Sonoda
People's Republic of China: Minister of Foreign Affairs Huang Hua
Who, having communicated to each other their full powers, found to be in good and due form, have agreed as follows: [Article I]


1. The Contracting Parties shall develop relations of perpetual peace and friendship between the two countries on the basis of the principles of mutual respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, mutual non-aggression, non-interference in each other's internal affairs, equality and mutual benefit and peaceful co-existence.
2. The Contracting Parties confirm that, in conformity with the foregoing principles and the principles of the Charter of the United Nations, they shall in their mutual relations settle all disputes by peaceful means and shall refrain from the use or threat of force. [Article II]


The Contracting Parties declare that neither of them should seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region or in any other region and that each is opposed to efforts by any other country or group of countries to establish such hegemony. [Article III]


The Contracting parties shall, in the good-neighborly and friendly spirit and in conformity with the principles of equality and mutual benefit and non-interference in each other's internal affairs, endeavor to further develop economic and cultural relations between the two countries and to promote exchanges between the peoples of the two countries. [Article IV]


The present Treaty shall not affect the position of either Contracting Party regarding its relations with third countries. [Article V]


1. The present Treaty shall be ratified and shall enter into force on the date of the exchange of instruments of ratification which shall take place at Tokyo. The present Treaty shall remain in force for ten years and thereafter shall continue to be in force until terminated in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 2.
2. Either Contracting Party may, by giving one year's written notice to the other Contracting Party, terminate the present Treaty at the end of the initial ten-year period or at any time thereafter.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the respective Plenipotentiaries have signed the present Treaty and have affixed thereto their seals.
DONE in duplicate, in the Japanese and Chinese languages, both texts being equally authentic, at Peking, this twelfth day of August, 1978.
For Japan For the People's Republic of China:


Nothing about compensation.

[acosta]

yes, so you get my point. no compensation ever.





Nothing about compensation.

[acosta]

German's way of compensation was not only territory surrender. West german government had been very preactive in compensation. in 1953, both eastern and western germanay had decided the amount to be fixed at 82 billion german currency Marks, which is around 34 billion USD, almost equals west german's gdp then.

over 54 years, though after the year of 1991 the unition, germans have paid up to 100 billion Marks, besides the national level, both germanies have paid personal nazi victim 102 billion Marks. Business compensation was as much as 755 billion Marks. Today, Germans are still doing this!

Yalta Conference clearly required Germany, Japan and Italy to compesation the war. Please check out truth, not selective, and use average moral standard, to judge the world. Chinese have never hurt you, i believe, give them some justice.

[acosta]

looking at the german way, by the way, I found this, :), Japan is really petty...

the amount japan made to korea in compenstion was only 300 million USD, plus 200 million, paid up in 10 years since 1965.

at the beginning , korea wanted 800 million, japan was only willing to pay 50 million,
.................:P

their long talk ended in 1965, as the amount above mentioned.

[domokun]

Looking at all reparations at end of WWII, you would notice that receivers of reparations were winners of war. Was China winner, no. It was battle ground. Just like Korea. Peace treaties were basically written by winners, they didn't care does China, Korea or anyone else get anything, only about their own strategic interests.

[acosta]

are you saying France, the really battle fields?

or Russia, the majory of its population in Nazi war?

the only winner is USA, the only winner. that's how this sole superpower came from. this one, abslutely correct.


Looking at all reparations at end of WWII, you would notice that receivers of reparations were winners of war. Was China winner, no. It was battle ground. Just like Korea. Peace treaties were basically written by winners, they didn't care does China, Korea or anyone else get anything, only about their own strategic interests.

[hughdotoh]

I'm betting none of the above posters are asian.

You are all thinking of a nice sound bite of an apology that would make everyone love up and hold hands. That is BS western thinking. Short-term and makes sense only to people who got too much john lennon.

Asians think in terms of hundreds of years. Japanese, koreans, chinese, and everyone else have been at it forever. No love lost here, despite all that "we're all human" talk put out by their respective foreign ministries and hippie geekdoms.

So apologizing and dwelling in it is just a waste of time when another atrocity can happen after 50 years.

[Ordie]

yes, so you get my point. no compensation ever.

If anything, the compensation was 50 years of relative peace, stability to allow East Asian countries to be more prosperous.

There is no love lost between former enemies in East Asia, but they know they have much to lose if they opted towards war between themselves.

Much of the credit goes towards the US with its reforms of post-war Japan, providing its presence in the region, and to be a fair broker between the nations.

[acosta]

totally agree.

how to set a peace tone and benefit people in the region is critical at this china rise time. US need to stay, and longer. good for everyone in east asia.


If anything, the compensation was 50 years of relative peace, stability to allow East Asian countries to be more prosperous.

There is no love lost between former enemies in East Asia, but they know they have much to lose if they opted towards war between themselves.

Much of the credit goes towards the US with its reforms of post-war Japan, providing its presence in the region, and to be a fair broker between the nations.

[Ordie]

totally agree.

how to set a peace tone and benefit people in the region is critical at this china rise time. US need to stay, and longer. good for everyone in east asia.

Most of the individual people in Asia are savvy enough to understand that thier personal wealth is tied with the region's harmony.

Not only most Asians have moved on from the ill effects of World War Two, but also Korea, and Vietnam.

Unlike the majority democratic nations in East Asia, the ruling Communist Party of People's Republic of China lacks the legitimacy to govern through free elections. As one of the means gain legitimacy, it must do so at the expense of others, in this case its relationship with Japan.

Chinese Nationalism / Patriotism emphasizes on the negative effects of the past 200 years since the Opium War. Unlike other examples of Nationalism where one would emphasize its "victorious destiny", the Chinese emphasize "humiliation" and "victimization". Thus to seek "justice", "apology" or "retribution" are common themes.

What feeds this mentality are the countless anti-Japanese war (WW2) period soap operas on TV, miniseries, and movies within China. Where the Japanese are evil, and the hero is a Chinese commoner. In many cases they view the KMT as hopeless bafoons or misguided. With little or no mention of the allied efforts.

The rationale for this is simple. The Communist Party would rather have the masses be upset at outsiders than at the government. But as this becomes more common, it becomes more difficult with Chinese foreign relations with its neighbors and globally.

Given the mentality of Chinese Nationalist, I willing to bet a sincere apology of Japan's Emperor in Nanjing, with a blank check to any of the victims would be enough.

If there is no conflict, the Chinese Nationalist would overthrow the CCP.