Jessica Lynch awarded Bronze star [Archive]

GLax

07-22-2003, 01:29 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/21/lynch.homecoming/index.html

allrite, i might sound like a gleaming asshole here, but am i the only one that sees the fact that the 507th maintenance company took a wrong turn? does this embarass any other American in here but me? i wasnt there but seriously... and is the military giving Jessica lynch a Bronze star because she is a woman? i only ask becasue in this article it never states why she is receiving this award it only offers "The Bronze Star is given for meritorious service in combat" dont get me wrong fellas, i'm in complete support of our military and our fighting men, and Jessica Lynch is definately a very brave Soldier and an even more brave woman in a big boy's world, but i just wonder if the Army is trying to turn an embarassing mistake into an epic heroic tale to save face...

ibstolidude

07-22-2003, 01:33 AM

don't forget she also rvd the POW medal and the Purple Heart (a medal I never would desire - after all it is a shooting ribbon for the other team)

and to all the 15 year olds - yes yes I fully am aware of the AR's that govern the award of the Purple Hear and understand that it is awarded for other wounds as a result of enemy action. So don't msg me about your internet search of the Purple Heart

rob

07-22-2003, 01:35 AM

something like that. i dont see the point, she gets lost and people have to go in and ruescue her but she gets the medal not the troops that got her out of the situation that she got into in the first place. i think they are doing it because of the media attention around her if it wasnt for that i dont think the military would do anything.

but then again i guess this goes along with "there is no limit to the good that can be dont if one does not care who gets the credit."

papabear

07-22-2003, 01:43 AM

sounds like a PR campaign to me

papabear

07-22-2003, 01:44 AM

if she gets a bronze medal, there are surely a lot of combat troops who should be getting a bronze medal

GLax

07-22-2003, 01:45 AM

rob said: 'something like that. i dont see the point, she gets lost and people have to go in and ruescue her but she gets the medal not the troops that got her out of the situation that she got into in the first place. i think they are doing it because of the media attention around her if it wasnt for that i dont think the military would do anything.'

i completely agree with you rob, u never heard anything about the guys who went in and got her, just they went in and got her... guess thats why theyre 'silent professionals'

James

07-22-2003, 01:46 AM

Maybe PFC Lynch acted meritoriously in combat, and that's why she is getting the medal. I wasn't there, either, so I couldn't really say. Good for her, though.

GLax

07-22-2003, 01:48 AM

absolutely James, and i hope she gets well soon... i'm just lookin to see the opinions of current military guys and what they think...

papabear: it would be kind of interesting to see how many Bronze Stars are received by combat troops...

ScoutRanger

07-22-2003, 01:52 AM

I wish they'd have given me a medal when I flipped my Land Cruiser going 70mph north on I-5. I'sn't that what she did, cept it was dear old Uncle Sams?

OzMan

07-22-2003, 02:30 AM

This whole thing was BS from the start. She ain't no hero, she ain't no wonderwoman. Yeah, she got shot at, captured, and rescued. That's great. Move on. She's not the only one. This is why I hate the mainstream American media. I say give her a Purple Heart and a pat on the back. That's it.

Seraphim

07-22-2003, 03:25 AM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030721/capt.1058829157.lynch_homecoming_wx107.jpg

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=US_Armed_Forces

Argyll

07-22-2003, 03:39 AM

Well this debate will rage onwards,at least it ain't the CMOH!!
I suppose this means good news for the other POW's they'll be getting the Bronze Star too then?

I personally feel that there were a lot more individuals who warranted the BS ,for actions in combat than PFC Lynch!Both in Iraq and in Afghanistan,the whole episode reeks of National Patriotism!
I thought that actions in combat had to be witnessed by a superior,for any award such as this to be given?

Smintjes

07-22-2003, 04:07 AM

Royal

07-22-2003, 04:14 AM

Military history is littered with medals for f**k-ups. Look at 'Andy McNab's' MM & DCM for the B20 patrol or Robert Nairac's GC for getting pulled by PIRA on a non-official, unsupported op.

That's not to say that either men weren't brave (or PFC Lynch for that matter), just that both were major balls ups that cost lives and shouldn't have.

Breacher

07-22-2003, 05:37 AM

Here's my two cents:
She was awarded the Bronze Star...........has anyone else heard of awards or medals being conferred postumously to the others in the convoy who were killed? I haven't. If they have it may ease some tension. What about those growing number of casualties? Medals....if so, are they being announced in such a fasion? Again, I haven't heard of any such thing.

sounds like a PR campaign to me......I agree.

Military history is littered with medals for f**k-ups. ...I hate for things like this to happen like this for many reasons. The main reason is because IT CHEAPENS THE MEDAL, AND TAKES AWAY FROM THOSE WHO HAVE EARNED IT!
I'm curious about who/ why someone would write her up for this.

I'm done for now.......**** like this just.... :fork:!!!!!!!!!!!

Haiw

07-22-2003, 08:16 AM

they shuda given it to the guys in the 507th that died fighting...seems kinda unfair to give it to here while she was someone who DIDN't make that ultimate sacrifice while the others did...

GLax

07-22-2003, 08:36 AM

everybody is avoiding the question here, is she getting the medal because she's a woman? not that theres anything wrong with women getting medals, but there were thousands of guys getting shot at on a daily basis in the 3rd Infantry Division and 3rd Marine Division that are just as brave but are going unrecognized, i mean hey, all they did was crush the enemy in record time, nothin too special...

Argyll

07-22-2003, 09:17 AM

Right now the press need something positive to print instead of all the doom and gloom,and this fits the bill perfectly,of course it's purely political,after all,she fought off 100 iraqis with a hairdryer and a set of crimping tongs!
Not a single mention of the fact that it was the Native American girl(Lori Pestewa?) who was actualy driving the HUMVEE to try and evade capture,that was more worthy of the BS,maybe she got one Posthumously.
She (PFC Lynch) was no braver than the rest of her comrades in that fateful convoy,and this will be seen as a smack in the face to the others!

Herrmannek

07-22-2003, 09:37 AM

It's looks like medal "inflation". In future americas soldiers would look like soviet soldiers, medals, orders, patches everywhere. ;)

http://stalingrad_1943.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/vsvolkov.jpg
http://stalingrad_1943.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/rodimtsev.jpg
http://stalingrad_1943.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/savelev.jpg

Beloved Shiv

07-22-2003, 09:47 AM

'Not really any different then rear echelon occifers hopping flights routed briefly from combat airbase and then on back to home turf so they can draw a combat notation/pay. Or elite black berets for every swinging **** just outta boot camp.

Hell - we all know .. "The clothes make the man."

Sounds like B.S. to me.

yellowking

07-22-2003, 10:11 AM

I wish you guys would wait for the TV movie so we can get the whole story.

ibstolidude

07-22-2003, 10:15 AM

Argyll -

FYI it is not the CMOH it is the Medal Of Honor

the "Congressional" part comes from the Congressional MOH Society.

but the award is the Medal Of Honor.

very, very common mistake.

papabear

07-22-2003, 11:25 AM

Article about medal inflation for the bronze star:

http://www.pstripes.com/medals3.htm

(Don't know anything about the source...)

Dmitri

07-22-2003, 11:36 AM

Royal

07-22-2003, 11:48 AM

Article about medal inflation for the bronze star:

http://www.pstripes.com/medals3.htm

(Don't know anything about the source...)

I'm amazed - partly at my own ignorance! - I thought the bronze star was a combat medal. Why not have a meritorioius service medal instead.

In the UK we only have one similarly ambiguous medal (the DSO - usually given to senior officers, occasionally given for valour). Meritorious service is rewarded (if at all) by the MBE or OBE (sometimes known as Other Buggers Efforts).

NB Do the same criteria apply to the silver star?

usa320

07-22-2003, 11:48 AM

As long as the other members of her unit and the two apache pilots that were held get the POW medal and the bronze star as well, then im all for it.

Piccolo

07-22-2003, 12:07 PM

ScoutRanger

07-22-2003, 12:09 PM

Spearin

07-22-2003, 12:10 PM

It's just the U.S. saying 'I'm sorry for what happened, here have a medal...'

Most nations would do that. Also, is there any proof of how she fought during that ambush? What if she got into the fetal position in the back of a truck and was found. She might not have even been fighting at all, there isn't much proof. Now, I am not saying she did do that, but nobody would truly know.

Also, Argyll, where are you from? I am in the Canadian Argylls.

Trigger

07-22-2003, 12:42 PM

Yes, it's because she's a woman. Yes it's a PR campaign. Yes there are others more deserving...but what can you do? :|

Royal: You leave Andy McNab alone! :D

Gordon

07-22-2003, 12:48 PM

You mean to tell me McNab didn't earn it?

I think his point was that there were lots of missions carried out successfully that no one ever heard about and also were not recognised with any form of medal or commendation by the government.

Surely if this girl is getting a Bronze Star then every SF soldier, and pretty much every soldier serving in Iraq should already have a chestful of medals.

Seraphim

07-22-2003, 12:52 PM

Lynch Leaves Hospital, Heads Home

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=US_Armed_Forces

http://msnbc.com/news/941827.asp

Argyll

07-22-2003, 01:16 PM

Thanks for that 'stoli, I wasn't sure about the Congressional part!
Was it ever known as the CMOH?

Royal

07-22-2003, 01:19 PM

You mean to tell me McNab didn't earn it?

No he didn't.

Royal: You leave Andy McNab alone!

Why?

IMHO 'Ryan' deserved his for his E&E.

'McNab' should've been cout-martialed for gross negligence. He was warned not to do a foot insertion, he let his patrol get split up, probably leading to the death of two of them and then he has the gall to lie about it (and make millions from doing so).

GLax

07-22-2003, 01:41 PM

thank you Trigger. i have to say i'm sharing ignorance with Royal, i thought the bronze star was for combat, granted Lynch was in combat but does it really count if u dont fight back? and u can bet groups like DACOWITS (pro women in combat group) are gonna be all over this saying 'look, Jessica Lynch can fight, we should lower the training standards for everybody in the military so women can go into combat' but thats another topic for another time...

Herrmannek

07-22-2003, 01:54 PM

I read in the Washington Post that the Dept. of Army did its investigation of the accident and even announced the results. Here are the results: she had NO gunshot wounds whatsoever, all of the multiple injuries were inflicted by the vehicle accidents and she didn't even fire a shot on Iraqies because her weapon jammed....
Don't get me wrong, she did suffer a lot physically and emotionaly, but Purple Heart is what she should get for that...

In future americas soldiers would look like soviet soldiers, medals, orders, patches everywhere.
Do you mean WW2 veterans??? You know, after fighting for 4 years you would think that a lot of them would earn multiple awards

Why 4 years, you forgot that war started in 1939 By 2 well known people Hitler & Stalin, whith hostile attack on Poland :( .

But back to the question about medal inflation in USSR honours:

(i) Statistical question. Is it true that almost all soviet soldiers (WWII & later) where heroes in such grade that allow them to parade whith chests fullfiled with medals?

(ii) I also think, that most of the medals we can see on their chests is not for brawery, wounds, honor etc... but for
fullfiling the NKWD job, treachery of friends, motivating comrades by shooting their backs, denouncing of nation foes(including judes, catholics, educated, unplesed) , shooting in back of th head polish oficers in katyn & more ...

Nawlins

07-22-2003, 02:00 PM

granted Lynch was in combat but does it really count if u dont fight back? and u can bet groups like DACOWITS (pro women in combat group) are gonna be all over this saying 'look, Jessica Lynch can fight, we should lower the training standards for everybody in the military so women can go into combat' but thats another topic for another time...

Uh... yeah. Don't get me started. :cantbeli:

Cpl Stumps

07-22-2003, 02:07 PM

Here is my 2 cents.

When I was in the Marines I worked with some "salty" Marines who had been in Vietnam. They had Bronze with 'V'. I remember staring in awe at this ribbon on their chest. But when I asked questions about it to them it was just that a ribbon. To some it holds significance, but to many the actions behind the ribbon are what matter most. What ever action they did to receive that medal has far more importance in their lives then the fact that they can sport a colorful piece of cloth.

Did she deserve to get the Bronze Star, mostly likely not. Again when I was in the Marines I met a CWO who while driving in Somalia had a command detonated mine go off underneath his HUMVEE. He was blown out of the HUMVEE and had the engine block land on his legs crushing him. His Somali interpreter disappeared in the blast and 2 SSgt in the back were blown out but only slightly injured. They were then rushed by armed Somalis and the CWO put his arm on the engine block to stop the hot oil from getting in his line of sight and began engaging the armed attackers. The 2 SSgt's grabbed sand bags from the wrecked HUMVEE and made a defensive position around the CWO who was trapped. A Black Hawk arrived and offered to pull the 2 SSgts out but they refused to leave the CWO who's legs were crushed and trapped under the HUMVEE. They were of course later rescued. The CWO put the 2 SSgts in for Silver Stars but I saw a year later in Leather Neck Magazine that they were awarded Bronze Stars. Does her receiving the Bronze Star in anyway tarnish the medals received by those SSgts, I can't answer for those SSgts but it would seem to me that they followed the Marine and U.S. Military code that you never leave a fallen brother in the field. That would mean more to me than to receive a piece of medal.

dupielupie

07-22-2003, 03:35 PM

i am sorry but didn't she substain her injuries from a Humvee crash and not from engaging the enemy. from what i understand she was in the backseat of the Humvee that crashed into a truck and she was in very bad shape. how can she get a medal for being in a car accident?

Trigger

07-22-2003, 04:20 PM

You know, reading these posts has reminded me of one of my great-uncles. From what I was told, he was awarded 4 bronze stars for combat in the jungle during WW2. He would never talk about it. The one time his daughter witnessed him recounting something to one of his close friends, he broke down in tears. This guy was one hard-assed SOB, which made it so surprising. Apparrently during a fierce battle, the fight degenerated to hand to hand combat and he witnessed his best friend being beheaded. By the way, he never told anyone about the medals. We only found out when his funeral arrangements were being made and his veteran status was being verified.
So after thinking about it some more, I think it does lessen the value of the medal when it's awarded to someone for PR purposes.
RIP Joe

California Joe

07-22-2003, 05:01 PM

It's F'ing pathetic. Period. She shouldn't have even been "mentioned in dispatches" The word "hero" is bestowed very easily these days. When was the definition altered to include car crash victims? Being in the wrong place at the wrong time doe's not make a hero. Like when the space shuttles blew up. Both of them. Suddenly people who were doing a job they were fully cognizant entailed a certain amount of risk died. Not in a "heroic" manner but in an unfortunate accident.

Upside for Jessie is she gets free cars and a college scholarship and her hillbilly parents may even get a new cement pond out of the deal.

Duke

07-22-2003, 05:06 PM

...her hillbilly parents may even get a new cement pond out of the deal.
I concur about the BS, but leave parents/family alone.

Ichhabe

07-22-2003, 05:13 PM

Attacking Pvt. Lynch and her family because the US. Army and the US. Government NEED heroes is a cowardly action. Why don't you critise them as hard as Pvt. Lynch???

California Joe

07-22-2003, 05:14 PM

That was the comic part of the post, left out the "not serious" tags.

Honestly they all seem like decent country people who would have rather had their daughter home than getting broken into pieces in Iraq. Jessica Lynch is not to blame for any of this anyway. All this crap that's flying around is being orchestrated way beyond her control. I feel bad for her.

digitalghost

07-22-2003, 05:28 PM

All I can say is that I agree with whatever is going on in the media right now about how shes a hero etc. I dont know why anyone would critisize her/family/army for anything--

usa320

07-22-2003, 05:30 PM

Anyone who puts their lives on the line for their country is a hero as far as im concerned.

California Joe

07-22-2003, 05:30 PM

Simma don nah.

usa320

07-22-2003, 05:33 PM

The last post sums up the overall intelligence that ive seen is this thread.

As far as im concerned anyone who is fighting over there is a hero.

usa320

07-22-2003, 05:35 PM

I hope when shes feeling better she gets a chance to tell BBC to go screw themselves.

California Joe

07-22-2003, 05:38 PM

But they aren't. They are soldiers doing their jobs. It may be a more laudable profession than working at Burger King but it's still their job, that they CHOSE to have. Hero's are people who do extraordinary things under extraordinary circumstances. The word "hero" should be used the way the Medal of Honor is given out. Rarely and with reason.

digitalghost

07-22-2003, 05:39 PM

Anyone know if she'll be able to walk again? I tell you whos the heroes-- Those Navy ST6 DEVGROUP Operatives who went in there to get her out

Gordon

07-22-2003, 05:41 PM

well, she was standing up when she got her medal ... whether she can walk ... ?

Royal

07-22-2003, 05:41 PM

usa320

07-22-2003, 05:45 PM

She will be able to walk in time, right now shes got a wheelchair or a walker or something.

Argyll

07-22-2003, 06:00 PM

So USA,
Does this mean that everyone serving in Iraq now deserves the Bronze Star?
The whole episode is a giant publicity stunt,that's offending guys who have had to earn their Stars for combat situations............for crying out loud,whats so heroic about surviving a car crash,of which she has no recollection of?,and forget all that crap about being under fire,so was everyone else in that convoy,they(her HUMVEE) was trying to run from the ambush,whilst her comrades were dying,or being captured,not a single mention of these guys who said they TRIED to fight back,but their weapons jammed,no awards for them.
She has been kept away from her comrades,nobody was allowed to talk to her,without Pentagon Authorisation,how do you think the survivors of that convoy feel?Pretty pissed off I'll bet.
I noted that she never mentioned the award she recieved,it would of been more fitting to tell the Press that the award was for ALL of the 503rd that lost their lives,and for those who were captured.........a hero is a person who commits an act of bravery against the odds,to the benefit of another person(s),detremental to their own circumstances!
Not somebody who was following orders!!

digitalghost

07-22-2003, 06:05 PM

Well she also got captured for like a long time and went through hell and back and they rescued her-- I think she deserves all the credibility

Vance

07-22-2003, 06:06 PM

I agree Agryll....she should NOT have gotten that medal.

California Joe

07-22-2003, 06:08 PM

No, John McCain got captured for "like" a long time. She deserves excellent medical treatment and the love of her family and friends. Not a medal and credibility for what? Being an accident victim?

Gordon

07-22-2003, 06:08 PM

Yeh, well some people have gone through all that and never been rescued!, without any of the recognition because it wasn't politically sound to do so for the government of the time ...it's been said before, i'll say it again, ... "it was all a publicity stunt".

Dmitri

07-22-2003, 06:39 PM

Why 4 years, you forgot that war started in 1939 By 2 well known people Hitler & Stalin, whith hostile attack on Poland .

But back to the question about medal inflation in USSR honours:

(i) Statistical question. Is it true that almost all soviet soldiers (WWII & later) where heroes in such grade that allow them to parade whith chests fullfiled with medals?

(ii) I also think, that most of the medals we can see on their chests is not for brawery, wounds, honor etc... but for
fullfiling the NKWD job, treachery of friends, motivating comrades by shooting their backs, denouncing of nation foes(including judes, catholics, educated, unplesed) , shooting in back of th head polish oficers in katyn & more ...

well, don't want to go off topic here but.... a lot of ribbons you get in the service are not even from combat action..example:In US military I've seen plenty of soldiers who by the age 30-35 already have from 5-8 ribbons even without seeing any combat... imagine what would they have after a world war
In Russia it is pretty rare to find veterans with medals... and trust me, not everyone has a chest full of awards

I also think, that most of the medals we can see on their chests is not for brawery, wounds, honor etc... but for
fullfiling the NKWD job, treachery of friends, motivating comrades by shooting their backs, denouncing of nation foes(including judes, catholics, educated, unplesed) , shooting in back of th head polish oficers in katyn & more ...
sorry man, your thinking process must be disturbed or limited

motivating comrades by shooting their backs
even now treason in most countries is punishable by death

Ichhabe

07-22-2003, 06:42 PM

Ok! How long are you guys gonna squeeeeeeezzzzeeee this lemon?

99, 99999999% of the ppl in here agree's on the fact that she did not deserve the Bronze Star.

What are you going to do with the remaing ones? Turn up at their door steps with a baseball bat and "convince" them?

When reply after reply is Anti-Bronze Stars, Church Bells should be ringing,....Cheeez!

digitalghost

07-22-2003, 06:51 PM

Who cares-- Dont question what the UNITED STATES ARMY did-- They give out their medals to whoever they want to give it out to hehehe

Duke

07-22-2003, 06:52 PM

Yes, this is where hood should lock the thread and say do a search on the two other PFC Lynch threads. But wait I didn't read this:

.... a lot of ribbons you get in the service are not even from combat action..example:In US military I've seen plenty of soldiers who by the age 30-35 already have from 5-8 ribbons even without seeing any combat...
Thus the difference between a medal and a decoration. Commendation, Achievement etc medals are earned for hard training, responsibility, heroism, life saving, etc etc ecetera. Traits and behaviors the superiors must postively reinforce for their necessity in battle.

ESCOBAR

07-22-2003, 07:38 PM

Canadian Snipers got a BRonze Star too! During Operation Anaconda i believe.............sources say they bagged 20, good for them

GLax

07-22-2003, 07:41 PM

wow, i didnt realise my first new topic post would be so popular :P

Argyll

07-22-2003, 07:45 PM

I think these snipers never recieved them,as there was a bit of a contoversey involving the guy who made the longest kill in history,albeit with a .50,involving photographs of his victims!,He was supposedly Court Martialed for it,for bringing the name of the Canadian regiment into disrepute!

digitalghost

07-22-2003, 09:56 PM

Still no doubt she deserved it

Gordon

07-22-2003, 10:18 PM

Yep, and no doubt you deserve one too.

vryhpyammoadded

07-22-2003, 11:04 PM

Yep, must be PR. I smell DC politics. Some screwball Congressmen or Senator must be pushing the BS on behest of some power block that smells profit from all this. Or, maybe some general thinks he'll get something out of DC. Whatever...

Heck, I hear tell of movie and book deals already floating about.

Well, anyway, she's one of the good guys....err gals and it's good to see another soldier back home safe from the front. I hope she squeezes this for all its worth and makes a healthy profit before she's forgotten by the powers that be.

James

07-22-2003, 11:34 PM

Does anyone see PFC Lynch as a "victim" of the press/pentagon? In late March, as most of you will recall, it was stated that she had been shot multiple times, bayoneted and/or stabbed, and had only been captured because she had run out of ammunition after shooting a number of enemy soldiers. Later, it was revealed that she was basically the victim of a severe car accident that occurred in the midst of a firefight. The last thing I read said she didn't remember any of this at all. What I am getting at is that people shouldn't be hard on her about this situation, but hard on the spin doctors.

Nawlins

07-23-2003, 12:04 AM

Agreed. I wouldn't bash her, she was just trying to do her job, I'm sure. But serious shame on all the politicians/journalists/feminists/whoever else thinks that it's okay to use her for some kind of personal or political gain. The whole situation and the way it's gotten blown up so much is total bullsh**, but I don't think that it's her fault that it is.

(Anybody seen Wag the Dog? Not that I think the war is fake, but this reminds me a little of the whole "Old Shoe" situation; they needed a "hero" for the public to focus on.)

Is it just me or does she look embarrassed in that picture (the one UCT_Sinista posted) where she's getting the medal pinned on? Maybe it's pain... hard to tell.

Ngati Tumatauenga

07-23-2003, 03:09 AM

James, nawlins, I couldn't agree more. Whatever happened (happens) to her, she is simply a victim of circumstance. To keep hammering her for something she has no control over, ie the bronze star, is pretty pathetic. NO I don't agree with the circumstances of the award, but I don't see the point of vilifying her for it. Whats she supposed to do, turn it down?. Ubdeserved awards have occured in every army in history. Unfortunately its a fact of life. She didn't make the D to go down the wrong road, nor can any of the other command descisions that were undoubtedly made that day be attributed to her. Give her a break.

Smintjes

07-23-2003, 03:24 AM

I hope when shes feeling better she gets a chance to tell BBC to go screw themselves.

I'd take and believe the reporting of the BBC over any reporting of any major American news agency.

Argyll

07-23-2003, 04:22 AM

DigitalGhost,
Would you care to explain in detail,why she deserved it more than the others of that convoy please,because ,despite all that has been posted here,you are still going against 90% of the views?Its as if you actually are going out of your way to be provacative,and again it showas a lack of maturity,or a severe lack of being unable to accept the truth about certain incidents and actions!
Could you explain to the survivors of the 503rd ambush why their actions were less meritorious?
Could you explain to the parents of Lori Pestieawa,that despite the fact it was their daughter who was driving the vehicle in which PFC Lynch was in,as to why her actions were less meritorius!
Because quite frankly what it shows here that the US give out medals "willy nilly",on another thread there was a great back slapping yahoo,well done to the Special Forces Sergeant who was awarded the Silver Star for Gallantry in Afghanistan,his actions were described here in great detail,and rightly so ,because HE DID deserve it,so what you're saying that Lynch's BS was awarded for something just a little less heroic,or little less meritorious than the SOF Silver Star!?
What she does deserve is to get on with her life with the love of her family and friends,and not be a "freakshow" for the US Military,she will become the face on all the recruiting posters Stateside,she will now go on tour for the Army,and will probably never go back to the 503rd which is probably just as well.............she has no control over her life now whether she likes it or not,and that is a tragedy in its own!
You talk about Moral boosters,well how do you think the guys who are on the frontline,putting themselves in harms way on a daily basis,feel about this award,I have saw news clips of guys giving medical treatment to comrades under fire,which to me,an many others would be more fitting for recieving a Bronze Star,and they will go on as "unsung heroes",why..................because they are simply doing their job!!

XASA

07-23-2003, 09:09 AM

The two medals I hope no one on this forum ever receives are the Purple Heart and the POW Medal, which were also awarded to Lynch. The fact that she survived her captivity with massive physical injuries until she was rescued perhaps warrants the Bronze Star. I'd be interested in knowing if the other POWs from her unit were also awarded the same medal.

Argyll

07-23-2003, 09:42 AM

I guess I'll never see the logic,or the failed logic behind this award,as from what I have seen and heard,albeit through media resources,and the subsequent US Army findings,of the incident how she can qualify through this criteria
http://www.pstripes.com/eligible.htm
especialy this part
B. Awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity with the Armed Forces of the United States, distinguishes himself after 6 December 1941, by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, under any of the following circumstances:

What exactly did she do,that set herself apart, from the rest of the convoy survivors and fatalities?
I'm afraid that surviving a car wreck is simply not meritorious,no more than surviving in enemy captivity,the fact that she was by all accounts given excellent medical care by the Iraqis,compared to the other POW's in her unit beggars beyond belief!!
I'll tell you what was more heroic and meritorious,was being that 1st SOF soldier going up the stairs yesterday in Mosul!!

XASA

07-23-2003, 10:06 AM

Was she awarded the Bronze Star with the "V" for valor device or just the Bronze Star for meritorious service? If it was the former, then perhaps she was undeserving of the award; however, if it was without the "V" for valor, then who are we to judge from the comfort of our home or office sitting in front of a computer. Does anyone have access to the actual commendation? It would spell out why they awarded her the medal.

Most folks who have been awarded medals realize that they represent scores of others who were more deserving but never receive one because either there weren't enough witnesses, a quota or, what happens frequently, the paperwork is incomplete or lost. That's just the way it goes. No doubt there are scores of more deserving folks than Lynch, but she was the one they pinned it on, so I hope she wears it with well-deserved pride in service to her country. Who said life was fair anyway? :P

Trigger

07-23-2003, 11:35 AM

XASA, the other surviving POWs in her unit were awarded medals as well. I'm not sure about posthumous medals for the deceased though, but why wouldn't they get them as well?

Argyll

07-23-2003, 12:28 PM

Were thy all awarded the Bronze Star too?

andrew45c

07-23-2003, 12:30 PM

I think its stupid what has she done to deserve the bronze star i think that she was given it on acoount of the story being so glamorised.

Trigger

07-23-2003, 12:49 PM

@Argyll: I think so. I have to admit I was only halfway listening to the story on TV. The other members WERE being awarded medals, but I don't know if they were Bronze Stars. :(

Argyll

07-23-2003, 01:02 PM

It would only be right to do so Trigger

Piccolo

07-23-2003, 01:27 PM

I hope when shes feeling better she gets a chance to tell BBC to go screw themselves.

I'd take and believe the reporting of the BBC over any reporting of any major American news agency.

Thats nice. However, you did not care to comment on my statement about the blanks. There are only two type of blank firing adapters available. It's a requirment to have one if you fire blanks. The model used for military exercises is roughly a 2 inch piece of metal which screws on the end of the barrel. The second style, is a non removable type which generally makes the weapon unable to fire live ammo again, ever. Movie studios use them, and they are placed inside the barrel.

Besides the question of how the hell anyone but the actual operators would know they are using blanks, why would they? The area was known to have hostiles in it, according to intel. They had no reason to think otherwise. Do you really believe a soldier would go anywhere, much less on a mission in a country where thousands want to kill him, with blanks in his weapon? I personaly think this is one of the stupidest assertions I've ever heard.

You can believe what you like, but it's pretty god damn stupid, I think, to believe some native Iraqi's know more about our own Soldiers, and how they operate, then they themselfs do.

Argyll

07-23-2003, 01:40 PM

Hey Piccolo my man,
The BBC are a bunch of tossers at the best of times,hell they screw me for a licence for showing crap programmes and repeats every year!!
What the BBC saw were probably the silencers on the end of the M4 and thought ah ha BFA's as they looked a bit like the ones we used to put onto the end of the SLR's!!

Royal

07-23-2003, 02:05 PM

Hate to defend the BBC, but they were simply quoting a source (one of the Iraqui doctors).

I'm not getting into whether the 'rescue' was overkill, simply pointing out the journalists often quote 'sources'. Sometimes those sources are right, sometimes they're wrong, and sometimes the journalists misrepresent them...

Beloved Shiv

07-23-2003, 08:50 PM

Rescued? Come on guys, it was a propaganda stunt. Those Special Forces didn't go in shooting, all they did was yelling "gogogo" and firing blanks. There even was an Iraqi doctor who drove Lynch to a nearby American outpost, but the ambulance was taken under fire by the Americans because if they would get here out by themselves, it would look better on tv.

Good read: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/3028585.stm

[quote=usa320]I hope when shes feeling better she gets a chance to tell BBC to go screw themselves.

I'd take and believe the reporting of the BBC over any reporting of any major American news agency.

Okay, go right ahead. I'll still take your implied assertion that the BBC is infallible and unreprochable as utter crap, assinine blather.

Certainly not to be taken as canon, the BBC only passed along the comments of a source and one not strongly supported by even the original reporter, if you'd bothered to look for updates - http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/19/cnna.kampener.lynch/

Besides, this thread is tracking whether or not her medals were earned. The dispute as to what happened/what didn't (anyone here or anyone reporting on it, actually present that night?) has already been reviewed in prior threads ("Saving Private Lynch, first show" and "Special Ops Sets the Record Straight").

Fargin

07-23-2003, 10:12 PM

Anyways the public needs a hero and here's a pretty face. I believe it's good PR, and that's politics in a nut shell.

Desert-Fox

07-24-2003, 03:05 PM

i think this whole bronze star stuff is bull****
she doesnt deserve that medal!
she got a POW medal And a Purple heart
thats more than enough!

btw
why does the army care so much about PR
is there honestly someone in america
who doubts the value of their military?

irishmike21

07-24-2003, 03:11 PM

I honestly think its bs if she deserves to get a bronze star for being captured by the enemy for her unit making a mistake on which way to go in the middle of a large conflict then at least every rescuer of her during the rescue operation deserves an award because in my opinion they did alot more then she did I just can't believe just because she f*cked up and became a pow shes a national hero thats crazy in my eyes but hey just my opinion

USAF G

07-24-2003, 03:21 PM

Ok, you folks are like a dog with a bone about Private Lynch. Show of hands, how many of you were in Iraq and saw what happened to the 507th? :(
I really don't have an opinion one way or the other as to whether or not she deservs the medal, because I WASN'T THERE. Maybe it's all BS, maybe it's not, but some person sitting behind a computer proclaiming that, "she f*cked up and became a POW," is a little bit silly. I wasn't aware that she made the decision to make that wrong turn.
No offense, irishmike21. I just think we should all take a deep breath and let it go. :D
Also who's to say that those SOF guys won't or didn't get medals for their superb performance. woot
This has just been my two cents concerning some very overtravled territory. p-) G

Desert-Fox

07-24-2003, 03:30 PM

USAF G:
ive heard of people doing a lot more than private lynch in the iraq war
and getting Nothing in return!

as i said before the POW Medal and the Purple heart are enough
and well deserved but hte bronze star was simply not "earned" by pvt.lynch

USAF G

07-24-2003, 03:33 PM

Ok, I give up, keep your bone. :roll: I'm not denying anyone's accomplishments, or placing anyone's above the others, because I don't have first hand knowledge. I guess some of you do , so keep on keepin' on. :cantbeli:

ibstolidude

07-24-2003, 03:43 PM

screw the awards - when you are a PFC that Pretty ****in Cool but when you get up in rank readjuscting you dress uni sucks...I hate getting **** sewn on to my bdu's...I don't even like wearing the **** I have why get more? And then award ceremonies...ahh oohh no..just mail my award or put set it in the in box I'll get it later. ;)

once you max the promotion points ... who cares

there are excpetions .. if it a Valor device attached...that is why they things like the AAM are called the army appeasment/acheesement medal.