The German view of the Warsaw rising 1944

[mack pl]

When the Warsaw Rising broke at 5.00 pm on 1 August 1944, the German response was grimly predictable. It was summed up by Heinrich Himmler, who wrote to Hitler informing him of events and stating that "the action of the Poles is a blessing. We shall finish them off…Warsaw will be liquidated, and this city…capital of a nation… that has blocked our path to the east for 700 years…will cease to exist."

By 1944, Poland had earned itself a special place in the Nazi ‘World View’ or Weltanschauung. Heir to a long tradition of rivalry with its western neighbour, it had resisted German pressure in 1939, forcing Hitler into the general conflict that he had hoped to avoid. And, as if to compound the negative image held in Berlin, it was also home to Europe’s largest concentration of Jews.

Accordingly, the occupation regime in Poland was especially savage. Poland was to be wiped from the map. Its territory was to be divided up. Its population sorted and sifted along crude racial lines and shunted into the rump ‘General Government’ centred in the ‘ancient German city of Krakau’. Some would be slated for annihilation, those that survived would be turned into a semi-educated caste of slaves to serve their new German masters. In contrast to almost every other occupied nation, the Poles attracted no overtures for collaboration from Berlin. Even as the Germans cast around for the last crop of ‘volunteers’ for their ‘anti-Bolshevik crusade’ they refused to consider the creation of a Polish Waffen-SS division. They had few such scruples elsewhere.

Warsaw, too, aroused German ire. As the capital of the Second Republic, it was symbolic of the proud defiance of 1939. As one of the main centres of Polish Jewry, it was symbolic of a rich Jewish tradition. Accordingly, it too was also earmarked for radical reorganisation. In plans devised in 1940, Warsaw’s geographical area was to be reduced by one tenth, whilst its population was to fall by a quarter, with the shortfall to be made up by an influx of German settlers. At the same time it was to be systematically reduced to the status of a secondary provincial city. Capital status, along with resistance to Germany, would be consigned to memory.

Blinded by their propaganda and their twisted worldview, therefore, the Nazis were unable to see the Polish nation as anything other than a collection of recalcitrants, recidivists and bandits. And they viewed the events unfolding in Warsaw in August 1944 as vivid proof of that fact. Thus, it came as no surprise when the forces initially called in to quell the Rising were those renowned for their expertise in so-called ‘anti-partisan’ warfare. At their head was SS-General Erich von dem Bach, a veteran of SS dirty work, who had previously been commander of anti-partisan warfare on the eastern front. Under his charge were two units that had achieved notoriety even amongst their Nazi contemporaries: the Dirlewanger Brigade, which was drawn from convicted criminals and led by a pederast, and the Kaminski Brigade, a motley group of ex-Soviet citizens and deserters. These two brigades already had some of the most bestial operations of the war to their name. They would cover themselves in further ignominy in Warsaw.

The German military campaign in Warsaw can initially be characterised, from the Nazi point of view at least, as the extermination of so many ‘vermin’. This was most literally the case in the example of the ‘anti-partisan’ units, which began to move through the western suburbs of Wola and Ochota in early August. Utilising the skills that they had learned in numerous "anti-partisan" sweeps on the Eastern Front, they set fire to buildings and massacred every man, woman and child they encountered.

Elsewhere in the city, German forces initially displayed a complacency in their dealing with the Poles, which bordered on arrogance. The policy adopted was twofold. The artillery and Luftwaffe would pound insurgent positions, after which a frontal ground assault would be launched. It was intended as a demonstration of overwhelming firepower and superior military hardware that would cow the lightly-armed insurgents and force a submission with minimum loss of (German) life. In the event, it did neither.

The insurgents were not cowed. They did not surrender, and, what is more, their positions often withstood German attack, whilst the aerial bombardments merely created the ideal environment for urban guerrilla warfare. Insurgent units would melt away in the face of superior force and regroup to attack elsewhere. Positions lost in the day would be retaken by stealth at night. Snipers lurked unseen in the shadows, picking off the unwary. Barricades would be ****ytrapped; petrol bombs would rain down from upper storeys. German forces on the ground, if not their superiors, soon realised that they were facing an enemy that was as inventive as it was deadly. A campaign that had been billed as a simple mopping-up of ill-armed and ill-trained ‘bandits’ was growing (in the German mind) into something far more substantial. A modicum of respect for the Polish fighters began to creep into official and unofficial correspondence. Comparisons were even made with Stalingrad.

By the end of the first month of the Rising, therefore, the Germans realised that their previous tactic was not bearing fruit. The policy of the ‘anti-partisan’ style extermination was only swelling the insurgent forces and stiffening their resolve. Von dem Bach decided that he would have to resort to negotiation, and, with that, came a necessity to acknowledge that his enemy was deserving of some respect. After lengthy talks, the Polish ‘bandits’ would be accorded every dignity. They would be recognised as Allied combatants, entitled to the same treatment on surrender as western POWs. There were to be no reprisals against civilians and no ill-treatment of captives. On the whole, these conditions would be kept.

Whilst the negotiations continued, however, the fighting dragged on for almost another month. For some German soldiers, it brought with it uncomfortable truths. One noted that "it is sad but true, but they have fought better than us." Another was profoundly disillusioned: "it has become clear to me", he wrote, "that we are not the nation that embodies strength, nationalism and a sense of sacrifice." He added: "The Poles have shown qualities that we cannot."

As the Rising finally drew to a close in early October, and the exhausted and half-starved insurgents gathered to surrender their weapons and march into captivity, many German soldiers saw their opponents face to face for the first time. They could not but be impressed. Some wrote home detailing the "noble bearing" of the Polish fighters, and contrasting the image of men marching smartly in close order with the propaganda stereotype of the rabble of ‘bandits’ and ‘partisans’. Others wrote with admiration of their "exemplary" and "unbowed patriotism." Those that witnessed the Polish surrender would scarcely be able to forget it.

But the greatest compliment, perhaps, came from the General Reinhard Gehlen, head of the office Fremde Heere Ost (Foreign Armies East), which supplied intelligence information on Germany’s eastern enemies. Gehlen had made numerous studies of the Polish Home Army and would have been well aware of the course of the Rising in Warsaw. In the early spring of 1945, he was called to Berlin to brief those responsible for creating Werwolf: a German underground organisation to carry on the fight following the expected Allied occupation of Germany. He was asked what form he thought Werwolf should take. He replied that it would do very well to copy the Polish Home Army.

Two months after the end of the Rising, a campaign arm-shield was instituted for those German troops who had fought in its suppression. It was to be awarded to all those who had spent at least seven days of combat in the city, sustained a wound or served 28 days in a supply capacity. The shield was put into production, but an Allied air raid destroyed all the machinery and finished examples, and it was never presented. Its design, however, was telling. Bearing the legend "Warschau 1944", it featured a German eagle, with a swastika across its chest, choking a coiled snake in its talons. The Poles had earned much admiration in Warsaw, but, officially at least, they were still a nation of vipers.

Roger Moorhouse, England

Further reading:

[1] Quoted in Noakes & Pridham (Eds.), Nazism 1919-45, Vol. III, Exeter, 1988, p996.

[2] Heinrich Stechbarth, diary entry, 4th October, 1944.

[3] Peter Stolten, letter from Warsaw, 5th October, 1944.

[4] Peter Stolten, letter from Warsaw, 6th October, 1944.

[5] The Service: The Memoirs of General Reinhard Gehlen, New York, 1972.

.......
Regards
mack pl

[Kitsune]

This thoroughly biased (to the Polish) article should be called "Poland from the Nazi view" instead.The "German" view towards Poland was similiar to the English view of Scotland.

[mack pl]

This thoroughly biased (to the Polish) article should be called "Poland from the Nazi view" instead.The "German" view towards Poland was similiar to the English view of Scotland.
It wasn't my idea with this title, but Mr. Moorhouse ;) And in WWII nazi view=german view(generally) ;) But If you want, blame Mr. Moorhouse, not me,ok ;) :)

regards Kitsune, I really like to discuss with you, coz you aren't offensive like other persons here, you know who I mean ;)

Regards
mack pl

[LeMat]

This thoroughly biased (to the Polish) article should be called "Poland from the Nazi view" instead.The "German" view towards Poland was similiar to the English view of Scotland.

Oh! :cantbeli:
You want to say that nazists were different nation than Germans? Strange. Nazists were from Mars?

[Kitsune]

@LeMat:

the hallmark of dictatorships os that the rulers can impress their personal worldview on the whole nation. And I just wanted to say that the view of Poles as subhuman slaves-to-be was such a thing, a belief of the Nazi rulers not shared by the German people.

After Hitler came to power in 1933, he made economic reforms that soundly defeated unemployment. In 1939 Germany was one of the most prosperous nations of Europe. That is why the Germans liked him. (Its debatable wether this properity would have lasted, but that is not the point here).

WWI had been fought by the Germans so that Germany could stand shoulder to shoulder with the Great powers France and Great Britain, as a respected European power. But after the war any status as a power of any kind was prevented by the Versailles treaty. Germany was to be a powerless nation, at the mercy of those around her. FOREVER.
Hitler spoke against it from the start. People liked him for it. And he did something against it. Whe he came to power he gave Germany respectable armed forces. People liked him for it.
In 1939 he had done it: Germany was a European power. Respected. Prosperous. The Germans were actually quite satisfied with the situation, and did not want a war.

It is true: There was open Nazi antisemitism. And to few Germans spoke against it. Some even partook in it. Out of opportunism or greed. The majority didn't think the antisemitism diplayed by the Nazi rulers was right, but they tolerated it mainly beacause of Hitlers stunning achievements. And the typical human complacency. It simply seemed a small price to pay, for the advantages of Hitlers rule....especially if you are not a jew. That is our guilt.

But as Hitler invaded Poland, people weren't exactly enthusiastic. But many believed the Gleiwitz lie (that Polish had attacked this radio station). And lets face it: there was a substantial minority of Germans in Poland (about 10 million) who were not always treated well by the Poles (probably treated similiar as a minority in Poland as had the Poles been treated in the Reich before 1918). The Germans view of these things were biased of course (no need to discuss who committed what, and who did it first...like Israelis and Palestinians...."the other side is the only one at fault and started it"..."we just defended ourselves" and so on).

So all in all the war was seen as justified by many. After Great Britain and France declared war against Germany, most Germans simply believed they had to defend the fatherland, lest the French and English would impose Versailles Vol.2 upon Germany.
There was of course the desperate strategic situation of Germany, sourrounded by enemies and a not very trustfull ally. "He who is weak must attack or perish" are the words of Frederick II (or of the Israeli general Israel Tal, depends) so Hitler actually was not left with much other choices than to wage the war aggresively (or to resign...but did anyone believe he would do that?). As the big successes of Hitler prompted the Germans to follow him into the war, the rising scepticism was vanquished by the amazing military successes of the Wehrmacht. So in 1942 a German that was to Hitler as budanski is to Bush could have listed an endless string of impressive doings of the "Führer"...perhaps enhanced a bit by propaganda. "The man knows what he is doing, he is a genius, who can doubt that? Just have bit faith...and keep on fighting" Back then it seemed not a bad idea to do this, and to hope for the best.

After all was lost and the Allies proudly cried out loudly the whole extend of the Holocaust and the other astrocities of the evil enemy they had overcome, the whole picture was very different from the one the Germans had seen (or believed to see) in 1939...with hindsight it became absouletly clear that Hitler was the Devil and that anyone should have seen this from the start. All of Hitller achievements and all of the glory had turned to dust and ashes, mere illusions without any substance to them, only the burden of the crimes committed was real enough. But most Germans claimed that they had not known about the Holocaust or most of the other astrocities. But there had been a choice to behave differently, hadn't there been?

But back in 1939 people did not even know that they started WWII when the Wehrmacht marched against Poland. But of course France and Great Britiain were absolutely right: Who invades Poland has to be punished. Mercilessly.
Stalin of course wanted to keep the chunk of Poland he had stolen, when the and hitler walked still hand in hand. And he got his wish. The Germans simply had to pay double the bill.

As the Germans (Nazis?) had cruelly mistreated the Germans (3 million Jewish Poles were murdered and an further 3 million Poles had perished during the occupation), the Polish after the war went about to solve their German problem once and for all. 10.5 million Germans were expelled from Poland (and 1,5 million perished in the process). Of course the Poles had no choice, hadn't they? At least, most feel not guilty in the least.

Or perhaps the difference between Germans and Poles is not that big as some tend to think.


Just some thoughts...

[mack pl]

But as Hitler invaded Poland, people weren't exactly enthusiastic. But many believed the Gleiwitz lie (that Polish had attacked this radio station). And lets face it: there was a substantial minority of Germans in Poland (about 10 million) who were not always treated well by the Poles (probably treated similiar as a minority in Poland as had the Poles been treated in the Reich before 1918). The Germans view of these things were biased of course (no need to discuss who committed what, and who did it first...like Israelis and Palestinians...."the other side is the only one at fault and started it"..."we just defended ourselves" and so on). .
Well, I think Germans in poland weren't bad treated by Poles. They had own schools, etc. BTW Poles in germany have less rights than Germans in Poland, because only we signed some treaty about minoritys.

btw my grandfather was from Austria, and he wasn't bad treated by Poles ;) He have more problems with Jews, but it was buisness problems ;) :lol:



As the Germans (Nazis?) had cruelly mistreated the Germans (3 million Jewish Poles were murdered and an further 3 million Poles had perished during the occupation), the Polish after the war went about to solve their German problem once and for all. 10.5 million Germans were expelled from Poland (and 1,5 million perished in the process). Of course the Poles had no choice, hadn't they? At least, most feel not guilty in the least.
well, blame Russia, uSA and Great Britain ;) It was theirs decision, not our. I hope you heard aboult Yalta, and Pochdam ;)



Or perhaps the difference between Germans and Poles is not that big as some tend to think.

no, we are the same people, from the same planet ;) But, the most important differnse between us, is that we didnt invented ideology like Nazism ;) You were smarter than us :cantbeli: :lol:

regards

[Herrmannek]

Don't know Kitsune what you heard, but my grandma who was deported to Germany as worker has other opinion in that matter.. In great majority they were treated like slavers...

[LeMat]

Kitsune

Remember one thing.
Elections to Reichstag in 1930:
- NSDAP 6400000 votes

Elections for Reichstag in 1932
- NSDAP 17300000 votes (44%)

Number of NSDAP members:
1919 55
1921 3 000
1923 55 287
1928 96 918
1930 129 563
1933 849 000
1935 2 493 890
1937 2 793 890
1938 4 985 400
1939 5 339 567
1942 7 100 000
1943 7 600 000
1945 8 000 000 +

German people had chosen. German people will pay for it for ever. It is sad but probably Germans will always have to say "sorry" fot that. Remember - GERMANS started the most terrible war in history. 50000000 people died because some stupid painter wanted to have a Lebensraum and at least 44% Germans were his supporters (they were voting for him).

[Kitsune]

Number of NSDAP members:
1919 55
1921 3 000
1923 55 287
1928 96 918
1930 129 563
1933 849 000
1935 2 493 890
1937 2 793 890
1938 4 985 400
1939 5 339 567
1942 7 100 000
1943 7 600 000
1945 8 000 000 +


The numbers from 1938 on are misleading. People were coerced to join the NS party. If you had a job as teacher for example, policeman and such (anything in states service) you had to face the choce: enter the NSDAP party or unemployment. Most people chose the first. Thats not heroic, but thats makes them die-hard Nazis either. (Even then...8 million out of 76 million...that is not exactly what you call a mojority, isn't it?
Hitlers popularity grew with his successes during the 30ties. It dropped sharply when the war started. It grew with the amzaing successes (along with the fact the losses, at first, were quite small...people were used the numbers of WWI after all). From 1942 the popularity dwindled sharply again. From summer 1944 on most hated him.
German and Nazism are two different things. Most people do not care for "isms" anyway. They are interested in their familiy, their job and their living conditions. Hitler was supported because of his successes, not because he was an evildoer. Only very few man would die to protect antisemitism or massmurder. That even goes for Germans.
As Hitlers successes ceased, his poularity fell. That is not admirable, but it undermines that most people did not staunchly support Nazism as such.

I do not intend to say that the Holocaust hasn't happened or something. Just that "Nazi" and "German" are not two terms for the same thing.


@Herrmanek: About 10 million Germans (and not "Nazis") were expelled from Poland. 1,5 million died. Civilians. Women and children among them. How do you think that happened? From being treated like royalty by the Polish? And if only one 7 year old girl had been murdered by a Pole in 1945 because of "revenge", can this truly be called "justified"? Does it make it right that 7 year old Polish girls had been murdered, too? And did he have no choice? Don't forget: neither the Sovietunion nor France nor Great Britain nor the USA demanded the Germans to be expelled. Or to kill so many. Look how big Poland is (compare Polish area per capita to the German one). The Polish decided to do this. It seemed to be a good idea back then. If one had seen innocent Polish civilians suffer and die it probably makes him feel better if he sees German civilians suffer and die. Don't know. But it was the deed of Polish people in any case. Their choice.

[perdurabo]

How it is possible that ALL germans oposed and FEW NAZIS started war with all world ?? So nazis are some virtual demons from mars?

I have nothing to you i have meany friends in germany we can drink beer (Polish of course because its the best beer in whole world!) and make fun.

Look at maps before 39 how Poland looked like? where is Lwów now? where is Wilno? Poland before war had around 40 000 000 citizens afther war only around 25 000 000 what happened with up to 15 000 000 of ppl?

[Herrmannek]

@Herrmanek: About 10 million Germans (and not "Nazis") were expelled from Poland. 1,5 million died. Civilians. Women and children among them.
How do you think that happened? From being treated like royalty by the Polish? And if only one 7 year old girl had been murdered by a Pole in 1945 because of "revenge", can this truly be called "justified"? Does it make it right that 7 year old Polish girls had been murdered, too? And did he have no choice? Don't forget: neither the Sovietunion nor France nor Great Britain nor the USA demanded the Germans to be expelled. Or to kill so many. Look how big Poland is (compare Polish area per capita to the German one). The Polish decided to do this. It seemed to be a good idea back then. If one had seen innocent Polish civilians suffer and die it probably makes him feel better if he sees German civilians suffer and die. Don't know. But it was the deed of Polish people in any case. Their choice.
Kitsune I have haedhache from BS people here serve us today...

We started war?
We decided how will look our borders?
NO
Did we killed or intentionaly mistreated Germans after WWII?
NO

We just took only small part of things we had lost... END OF STORY

And tell me how you counted that 1,5 milion people dying from being moved 100 kilometres west :cantbeli:

As for girl i don't now story.. But pedofiles are everywhere and such events could mean nothing.

[perdurabo]

As for girl i don't now story.. But pedofiles are everywhere and such events could mean nothing.
Herrmanek he was saying about some hipotetical german girl killed by hipotetical Pole but he forgets that not hipotetical German killed meany little girls in death camps, conducted bio experiments on them etc....

And about number of Germans killed during 45'-46' Kitsune did you heard about Werevolf?

[Kitsune]

@Herrmanek: I never said that "You" did start the war. And perdurabo is right, the girl was hypothetical, athough chances are high that there were quite a few girls among those 1,5 million people...even 7 year old ones.

@perdurabo: Yes. "Werwolf" was an organisation that was supposed to fight the allies guerllla style. It was unsuccesful to say the least, mainly because there was not enough public support for it.

[XASA]

There are several books published on how the German populace were, at the least, knowledgable of the horrors committed by the Nazis, while many allowed themselves to become functionaries working in some way, shape or form for the death camps system as policeman, railroad workers, guards and industrialists.

Unfortunately, Germans born after the war and had nothing to do with it still carry that burden of guilt, and they seem to want to revise history or sweep it under the carpet. But its horrors will be a stain on civilization for generations to come-- as it should be-- because the actions of the German nation in WWII were so repulsive.

[LeMat]

Kitsune

It is very dangerous that you say "it wasn`t Germans - it was nazists". 44% of Germans elected Hitler. About 8000000 adult Germans were members of NSDAP. Between 1940 to 1945 1000000 Germans were members of SS! And only adult "full german" man could be in SS! Not everyone who wanted. So as you can see there were quite many members of SS.
So please. Don`t tell "It was nazists and most Germans were anti-nazist." Most Germans were pro-nazi.
NSDAP won elections. Who were voting for they? Guys from Mars?

[Kitsune]

@XASA:
These books are very unfair things. Basically the mistake is always the same: they ingmore that hindsight is always 20/20.

Let me illustrate this with a very very nasty thought experiment:

Lets assume, that Bush gets re elected. In January of 2006 the city of, lets say, Cleveland, is nuked by islamic terrorists (who has said here"who cares"? p-)). After this, the Bush governments creates a system of laws to "protect the homeland", that essentially turns the USA into a military dictatorship. The CIA declares that Iran would be harboring the terrorists behind this...so the US armed forces nuke Teheran...and conquer the whole Near East in ernest. Years of uprising and bloodshed follow. Finally, Bush is brought down (Canada and Mexico join arms and bring the USA down) and it turns out that
1) Horrible experiments were conducted on detainees. Especially the word "Guntanamo" becomes synonymous with horrors of the worst kind.
2) The destruction of Ceveland was a sham...members of the CIA did it with an American nuclear device, so that Bush could become unquestioned ruler of America.

So now the question. Assuming this would come to pass, how would you...XASA...evaluate the behaviour of Bush supporters today (June 2004) in retrospection? Lets say, when the Americans sit in the ruins, with Canadian and Mexican soldiers walking around and are aking themselves "How could it have come to this? Who is to blame?" someone (Mr. Iknewitallalong...probably a Chinese) pops up and proves this "string of events" that leads the USA inevitably into disaster.
Take the American military budget for example: Bush increased it to 400 billion even back in 2002, that is as much as the next 12 next military heavy nations together. Clear proof of his agressive plans, isn't it? And everyone knew it. Even "normal Americans" talked about the US being the next Roman empire.
Or Guntanamo...the horrible experiments were unknown, you say? Doubtful, Mrs Iknewitallalong says...but even from the start people who were incarcerated there, were not given POW status nor were they accused of any crime. They were "detainees" who could be held idefinitly. This is a practise more typical for dictatorships....and the conditions weren't nice that could be even seen on TV. In fact EVERYONE knew it, right? Ergo: Every American knew this (or could knew this if he would be interested) but no one (or only a very small minority) cared about it. Where were the people who stood aup against it, when there was still the chance, before Bush became the military dictator...they even re-elected him in 2004! Clear proof of American collective guilt...
And so on. Mr. Iknewitallalong could write a book and make a TV documentary, which shows how the catastrophe began even with Bushs fist election, his doubtful connections to the economy...all underlaid with spooky music of course...how the American people followed every step of the ladder willfully, even cheering him, step by step...right into catastrophe. And only a brave men named Michael Moore stood up against him (he was tried and executed as a traitor during the last year of Bushs reign, but a monument is erected in Washington DC in his name).

Only a hypothetical course of future history of course p-) . In fact I don't say that this will happen or something. I just want to say that things suddenly...seem different if seen from certain viewpoint. Think about it. And the German viewpoint in 1945 was certainly different than the one in 1939. What did the average German know about the Holocaust? My Grandparents said: "Nothing. Cross my heart and hope to die." Maybe a lie. But German jews in summer 1944 were send an written order to be at a certain railwaystation. The writing informed them that they would be deported to place called "Auschwitz". They came. Voluntarily. Because they did not know. To them Auschwitz was just a town in Poland after all.

Hitlers succesful attempt to become Reichschancellor of Germany was supported by some notable jewish buisiness Tycoons. Atlthough Hitler was known to be antisemit. Why? Because they wanted the Jews to get gassed? Of course not. The Nazis were a opportunistic lot, and friendly to capitalists...thats much preferable to the communists. They thought it a good idea. In retrospect it seems shocking, but they didn't knew back then.
Charles Lindbergh, an American and the first men to fly over the atlantic without stopping, openly supported the Nazis. (Did he want the Holocaust. I don't think so.) Henry Ford, American, buisiness Tycoon, greatly liked and admired the Nazis. He was antisemit as well (Ford had written a book about the "Jew in international buisiness") and liked how Hitler treated the Unionists (they were put into concentration camps...well Ford liked the idea...but did he saw the Holocaust coming? Or the World War? I think not.) In Great Britian a study that was widely dicussed admired Hitlers Germany as the "most efficient nation" worldwide. And the Germans saw these things. Or realized during the olympic games in 1936 what a respected nation they had become.

Of course all those British, American, French...people, who supported Adolf H. suffered cases of instant amnesia when WWII broke out...turning into a chronic case from 1945. But those who had said something against Hitler, back in the thirties stood up to be counted.

Of course one can say: you need 20.000 people to keep the Holocaust going. Or 30.0000. And probaly hundreds of thousand could have known but simply did not want to know...lets be generous and say 500.000. Thats less than a percent of the German population. And this is enough to say "whatever was done to the Germans...they had it coming"? Because they are guilty, all of them?

But it's the easiest way, isn't it? and thats why these books are written. But I, do not believe in collective guilt. Not only because it suits me, but because the whole concet does not make sense.


@Le Mat: True. 900.000 men have been member of the Waffen SS during the wartime. In late 1944 whole units were transferred from Wehrmacht and suddenly became "SS". The whole idea of the SS as Nazi elite became watered down. But this shows one thing: If you stay before the grave of an SS man, you cannot be 100% sure that he was an evil man. What a world. (Surprisingly many of those SS evildoers who fell during the last year of the war were 18 year old boys...or even younger, as far as the SS-Division "Hitlerjugend" is concerned.)

[LeMat]

Kitsune

I read you post and I`m shocked. Your point of wiev is "we were good guys and only Hitler was bad". Sorry man but:
1. You have ellected NSDAP and youk had known his program before.
2. Your soldiers (not only SS) were murdering Jews, Poles, Russian and others.
3. You were using millions of slaves from conquested coutries
And of course you were good people who didn`t know about anything.
Collective guilt of Germans is fact - you ellected NSDAP and you had known "Mein Kampf" before. You have known that NSDAP is anti-semitism. You had known about Kristalnacht. You had known about special camps for political enemies, Jews, homo******ists.
And what have you done?
http://www.pzg.biz/mercedes1.gif
http://www.adolfhitler.ws/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/ahp/baw/ahp-77.jpg
You were crying "SIEG HEIL!"

[XASA]

Kitsune, one can understand why you would not wish to be included in Germany's "collective guilt"; however, I hope you can understand why that "guilt" exists. It cannot be explained away by your simplistic hypothesis. Lest we forget, it wasn't just the Jews and Poles who were affected by the German military; 20 million Russians died, too, is one example that comes to mind. Was that the Russians fault? To kill 20 million requires total war, and Germany waged total war on all of its fronts.

Also, your belief that the books desribing how Germans murdered millions, some written by Germans, are all wrong and you are right just doesn't make sense. If you are right and everyone else is wrong, it might be worthwhile for you to either write a book yourself or reconsider your views.

When I was stationed in Berlin in the late 1960s, not one German said he knew about Holocaust. When pressed as to where did they think their neighbors disappeared to, they would respond, like you, to a work camp, which is why they only needed one suitcase, no money and all their property confiscated. You state the Jews didn't know they were being sent to death camps, then why did they do every thing possible to avoid deportation? Every German veteran I met said they fought on the Russian Front. Not one would admit to fighting on the Western Front or Africa. So I'm not surprised that another generation of Germans find it convenient to rewrite history-- it's a difficult one to live with.

[Kitsune]

@le mat:
I read you post and I`m shocked. Your point of wiev is "we were good guys and only Hitler was bad". Sorry man but:

Not good. Only human.

@Xasa: I agree, if I would be an politician I would be dead in the water now. Because to say anything even remotely not negative about Hitler is deadly here.

As Hitler invaded Poland "and started WWII" (it is known that he had exspected to get away with it, so why this dogma that he started a world war? But the majority says so...), Stalin partook in this action. Nonetheless, France and Britian declared war on Germany only. A few months later before Hitler did anything else, Stalin attacked Finland. Simple aggression. No war was declared on him. That was 1940...Hitlers regime had killed some ten thousand people...Stalins around 12 million. Nonetheless...the armies of righteousness descended on Germany only, Uncle Joe became an ally. Why? After conquering France Hitler offered peace to Great Britian (he did NOT demand surrender, mind you) yet it is often ommitted in many history books (although it is true). Britain declined although Hitler even offered to end the occupation of France. Probably he lied, but it was not even discussed. Why? Hitler had even prohibited Canaris to create an network of spies in Britain...it was to be left alone...Why? because he wanted to conquer it? It is even possible that he let the British Expeditionary Force deliberately go in Dunkirk. Its not certain, but possible. And all of it fits with "mein Kampf" where you find his antisemtism, his contempt of the Slavs, his ideas to conquer Russia...and his admiration for Great Britain. Still...the picture that is painted is: Germany attacked, and Britain had to defend itself. Undebatable. Sry. Majortiy or no it is debatable.

British and US Airforces killed 1000 German civilians on average every day from 1943 on. And that was NOT collateral damage. It was the deliberate try to kill as many German civilians as possible. Aim was to kill up to 23 million (the total population of the urban centters of Germany that was on the "death list" which was next to impossible to achieve that was known). But 5 to 10 million were thought possible. Surprisingly the deathtoll was only about 600.000. And: it had nothing to do with the Holocaust. The idea for strategic bombing was much older than the WWII. Strategic bombing is a kind of wafare that is of astonishing cruelty...and totally unnecessary. And how many stood up against it? Very few.
After the war (although the Americans had the bomb) Stalin could even keep is share of the Poland heist, the Soviets even sat at the Nuremberg trials as judges.

I will not even talk about Stalin here, quite a few of the Russian civilians killed are his fault. The Russian POWs, after they had been "liberated" by the Red Army in 1945, were often shot or sent to Gulags, becuase they were "traitors" for not fighting to the death. Stalin is in no way ethically superior to the Nazis.
But even for the Wetern allies one can justly say that they behaved with downright astonishing cruelty and mendacity. Especially for democracies.
That is not my problem. You weren't born it is not your fault. But my problem is: There is not a shred of guilt accepted by Americans and British. Most Americans and British will say today that is was justified "in the greater scheme of things".

Its a clean hero s story from their point of view. Good (allied with Stalin and conducting a war against women and children) against Evil (who simply had it coming).

Don't get me wrong. I am not telling you that the British and Americans behaved just as bad as the Nazis or the Soviets. But there were crimes committed, too. And of considerable size. Crimes that are simply unjustifiable. Is ist fair to accuse the Germans (or me in particular) that they (me) tried to evade their guilt? You are doing just the same. You shroud yourself in an aura of righteousness. Or the Polish here. What happened in 1945/46 in Poland and Eastern Europe was perhaps the biggest Ethnic cleansing of all time. With an appaling high deathtoll. But again...not a bit of guilt is accepted. Not the silghtest bit. I never demanded that "it is just as bad" or that we are even-steven here. But I have never accepted this "German guilt 100%, Rest guilt 0,0% thing". It is wrong and if a million German historians claim it (they do their best, alright) it stays wrong.
You kill innocents. Or you don't. Americans did. British did. Polish did. And in high numbers. You accept guilt. Or evade it.

But what is happening instead? Hitler is inflated to a Demonprince (Whatever he did, he was just a man). The German people are painted as bunch of evildoers, guilty to the last man. In fact the Germans are so guilty, that its becomes alright to kill their women and children like any other. And yet feel no guilt. Isn't that a bit presumptous?
(I met a Veteran who fought of Monte Cassino once...talked to him. I asked him what motivated him. He said: "we tried every day to hold of the enemy one more day. Every morning...one more day of defiance." I did not dare to ask him wether he knew that every of those days about three trains full of men, women and children were killed in Auschwitz. Had he known? Can someone bear the suffering and death of his comerades, the constant danger of his own death to fight for just one more day if he knows this? I cannot imagine it.)

Today the whole of Nazi era is shrouded in myth. "Hitler started WWII"..."The Germans attacked one nation after the other, without sense"...."The Nazis wanted to take over the world"..."They went for Total War from the start"...."They had an highly militarized society, which was totally structured for war"..."They used insanely discipline"..."They drugged their soldiers to turn them into fighting machines"...Just a few examples. All of them wrong. Actually, its not that you can't find this out if you just read the history or military books...the normal ones. Some even written by Israelis. But the myth is spun, since most people do not read, but all watch the Hollywood movies. To see all this and how the victors characterize themselves and their often highly doubtful role as heroic, and how these things are revived nowadays to justify a certain foreign policy after the stated reasons turned out as hollow and empty, makes me sarcastic.

What I have done was to see the things as they really were, to the best of mine abilites. To see them as people have seen them as Hitler was still the respected leader of Germany (to whom Britain and the USA had diplomatic relations) and as Auschwitz was just a town in Poland. And to see them free of the myth and distortion that has more or less deliberately created over time. I wanted to understand.

Ok...perhaps the whole discussion here went to far. As far as guilt is concerned it is either felt, or not. There is nothing to be done about it. But I just intended to talk about these things, explain my point of view, be it right or wrong. Although some of the things I said were harsh, I did not say them to offend but because I believe them to be the truth. I am sry if I doubted the utter righteousness of the Western Allies. And sry if I offended anyone here. Also I intended in no way to portray Hitler as harmless or nice or something. But German doctrine (heeded by our historians) is that Hitler is the most evil man who ever lived. He and his crimes are in a league of their own, they cannot even compared to anyt other crimes who ever happened. Thinking of Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Poth, Imperial Japan and quite a few other persons or places (like Ruanda) during the 20th century, I do not believe this. Perhaps I play him down if I reject the dogma of his supernatural evil. But as it is I do not believe in the supernatural.

And certainly I don't belive the story of the evil Germans. I was just as dumbfounded, when I tried to understand, what cannot be understood, how so many people could follow him willingly. I asked my grandparents and their friends.
The picture is: It simply did not seem that evil. There had been no Hitler before. And from what you knew, the picture was not the same as after the war. And of course the typical behaviour of humans: being interested in their personal situation first. Family. Job. Money. Security. And other things (like the situation of the jews, if you aren't one) are seen as not as important. Today it is shown how these racial laws of Nuremberg a an step on a ladder that simply had to lead to the Holocaust. But people saw it differently back then. Even Jews did. And stayed in Germany. Non Jews often dismissed them entirely as an aberration that would be corrected, when the Nazi leadership came to their senses. And when the war started, it occupied everyones minds. Hilter ruled only a few years before WWII, after all.
And of course the successes of Hitler. Everyone likes a winner.
All in all, the Germans behaved all to human. With all the weaknesses of our species. I actually doubt that the British or Polish or Americans or French or Russians would have behaved much differently. Would they have cared more? Would they have relentlessly searched for the truth when the bombs fell on their cities? What about the concentrationcamps of the Boer wars? Or the internment of Japanese citizens during WWII? True, this isn't on par with the Holocaust...but it shows that the Germans aren't the only ones who tend to look the other way. After having seen quite few foreign peoples I actually do not believe that a people can be "evil". Sry.

But the myth of the evil Germans is needed. We Germans have for a large part stood to Germanies deeds. (We were forced, alright). But the victors are the ones who are sidestepping theirs Not a bit is accepted. With "collective guilt" it can be done. The whole concept of collective guilt is highly deoubtful, to say the least. Actually, this is accepted in any civilised laws. Guilt is individual. Collective guilt is nonsense. But the Germans are the exception. For you it may be the easy way out, but I cannot accept it. An older generation may have accepted the whole load. But i don't. We carry ours and you carry yours. I think it is fair this way, and only this way.



Ok...perhaps the whole discussion here went to far. But i just intended to talk about these things, explain my point of view, be it right or wrong. Although some of the things I said were harsh, I did not say them to offend but because I believe them to be the truth. I am sry if I doubted the utter righteousness of the Western Allies. And sry if I offended anyone here. (Maybe too late...)

[Macs.]

Interesting read, Kitsune.

[Jehuty]

Noboby should be held responsible for the actions of his ancestors.

Good posts Kitsune, altought i find your way to remind others atrocities committed by others countries pointless. Difference is that Germany did elect Hitler, difference is that Germany did start WW2, thus the horrible bombing on German cities. See the difference? I don't say "German people deserved it because they started the war", i say that starting the invasion of another country (which trough the game of alliances led to a world war) led to these atrocites (and some of them where obviously unnecessary like Dresden) while with or without war, German jews would have probably been exterminated by the Nazis anyway. I don't say at all that it's in German blood, there are historical reasons for that (no, no randomness sorry ;) ), it could have been in another country.There are reasons why fascism failed in France in UK just like there are reasons why it suceeded in Germany.
But still, Germans did commit atrocities during WW2 (and not only the Waffen SS, the myth of the "clean Wechmacht" is just a myth, just like the 100% resistants French one), i'm well placed to know this as a French from Lorraine who had the chances to hear the (horrible) witnesses of his family (hope you Germans understand now that it's Lorraine not Lothringen p-) ).
I believe your grandfathers' generation is responsible (the fact there are reasons does not imply no responsablity), but i also believe that it's BS to say that Germany will have to say sorry forever (althought a work to don't forget this era is a necessity). A country change, Germany did change.

[Herrmannek]

Kitsune we have same "warm" feelings to Nazie era Germany and Soviet Union... But we started from Germans wiev on ocupied Poland and we didn't want to blur discussion on nonevitable polish-russian flamewar... As for saying sorry forever... Gov should, you and other people haven't reason for that, excluding still living people who took part directly or not in that crime.

[2RHPZ]

I'm sure it will come as a surprise to many that the Polish resistance, known as the Armij Krajowa (The Home Army or just plain AK for short), was in fact the biggest and best organised resistance movement in Europe. So much so that the SOE actually gave them priority over the other resistance movements when it came to supplies and aid.

At it's peak there was about 300,000 people actively recruited into the AK and the whole organisation had a strict military structure of platoons, battalians and divisions etc. Although mostly made up of civilians there were also a lot of soldiers in the ranks of the AK. These were the guys who had evaded capture by the Nazis and Soviets but had been unable to escape the country.

From the outset of the war they fought a guerrilla campaign from the forests. One of their greatest successes was to steal a V2 rocket and smuggle it bit by bit to Great Britain! They also helped to get information out concerning the concentration camps as well as the 'Zegota' battalion which was focused on helping Jews.

However none if this came without a cost and many civilians died from Nazi reprisals. A chap I know lost most of his family when the AK killed 2 Nazis in his families street. The street was closed off and everyone who was on the street and living in the house's along it was shot and the buildings burned down.

The greatest and most tragic moment came with the Warsaw Uprising of August 1 1944. With Paris liberated and the Red Army within sight and encouraged by Soviet radio broadcasts calling for the people of Warsaw to rise up, the decision was taken to rise against the Germans and liberate the city. There were many successes in the opening days of the battle with large parts of the city falling to the AK.

Unfortunatly the AK only had enough resources to fight for 3 days, the hope being that the Red Army would speed up it's advance and the Germans would take flight. As it turned out, the Red Army ground to a halt on the outskirts of the city and outraged by this Polish impudence, Hitler ordered Warsaw destroyed.

So against overwhelming odds the AK continued to fight, desperate for aid from their allies. Britain and the US could only offer air support however this would rely on using Soviet air bases to allow their planes to land and refuel. Stalin denied all requests for the use of the air bases and so the allies were forced to fly missions from Brindisi in southern Italy which resulted in heavy casualties for the airforce. Still Stalin would not budge. By this time Soviet tanks were in the Warsaw district of Praga, right across the Vistula river from the fighting and the AK could clearly see the tanks sitting motionless barely a few hundred yards away.

As the Germans moved back into the city, the AK were forced into the cities sewers in order to escape to the old town, where the AK was still holding out. A very dear old lady who I know told me how she escaped. As she was entering the sewer, she briefly stopped for one last look at the city. Everywhere around her was in rubble, not one single building was left standing. She spent 4 hours moving through the sewers, which in places were waist deep with sewage. She finally emerged from the sewer in the old town and was amazed to see buildings still standing and glass still in the windows. There was even running water here, as throughout the rest of the city it had long since been cut off.

After 63 days, the AK finally surrendered. 2000 people died every day during the uprising and the entire city had been reduced to rubble. Although a resistance army, the AK was afforded combatant status and so all it's members were protected under the Geneva convention and so they lived out the war in various POW camps. These were the lucky ones, those that fell into the hands of the Soviets met a much worse fate. Denounced by Stalin as 'bandits', all were arrested, many were shot. Having recently liberated the Majdenak concentration camp, the Soviets immediately recommisioned it as a prison camp for AK members.

I could go on and on about this, as what I've written has barely scratched the surface, the political machinations between the 'Big Three' and Poland and the inevitable betrayal, why Stalin refused any help and why Churchill and Roosevelt were so impotent when dealing with the situation.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/info-poland/exhib/warsaw/gallery1.html
http://www.princeton.edu/~poland/uprising/
http://www.polishresistance-ak.org/
http://www.1944.pl/

[mack pl]

. So much so that the SOE actually gave them priority over the other resistance movements when it came to supplies and aid.


As Britain’s ‘First Ally’, Poland played a role in most aspects of allied military strategy, not least in relation to underground resistance movements. Hence, Britain’s SOE was closely involved with the Polish Underground from 1940 onwards; and SOE’s ‘Polish Section’ was actively engaged in operations designed to strengthen the Home Army and to maintain its links with the western powers. One of the groups of SOE agents, or Cichociemni was flown into German-occupied Poland on 31 July 1944, reaching Warsaw on 1 August.

Both the British and American governments were well aware from mid-1943 onwards that Polish underground leaders were planning to launch an insurrection against the Germans as soon as the time was ripe. A memorandum to this effect reached President Roosevelt’s desk, prior to the Teheran Conference, on 23 November 1943. At no point did the Anglo-Americans advise the Polish Government that a Rising might not be opportune. On the contrary, the general climate in Allied circles constantly urged the Poles to attack the Germans and thereby to assist the allied war effort.

It is also important to stress that a period of at least seven months was available to the Allied Coalition for making contingency plans. The Red Army crossed the frontier of Poland in early January 1944, heading west, but it did not reach the Vistula until the last week of July. Throughout that time, it was reasonable to expect the Coalition to consider its dispositions in three crucial respects. The first was in Intelligence, which in the absence of any British or American officers in Warsaw, was signally deficient. The second was in the field of Military Liaison, which made little progress since the British consistently ignored all requests to send a military mission to the Polish Underground (along the lines of the mission that was operating in Yugoslavia.) And the third was in diplomacy. Everyone knew that the Red Army was marching in the direction of the capital city of a country that was formally allied to Great Britain, Yet., since the ‘Big Three’ kept all major strategic decisions to themselves, and since Stalin had severed relations with the Polish Government, it was self-evident that the Western leaders alone could have approached Moscow and have prepared the political ground for an eventuality that was bound to affect the Coalition as a whole. No such initiative was taken.

Six weeks before the Rising, Prime Minister Mikolajczyk travelled to Washington with General Tatar for meetings with President Roosevelt, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the OSS. At each step, the intention of the Polish underground to attack German forces on the approach of the Red Army was openly discussed. Roosevelt received Mikołajczyk enthusiastically, urging him to speak directly with Stalin, and assuring him that Poland would emerge ‘undiminished’, He also provided a generous subsidy of $10 million for the Home Army. The Joint Chiefs of Staff grilled the Poles closely about the prospects of Soviet co-operation, and may have been misled by General Tatar’s overoptimistic assessment, Tatar, was an eager advocate of the Rising and a political opponent of his Commander-in-Chief, General Sosnowski, He does not appear to have passed on Sosnkowski’s strong reservations. But the British were well pleased with his performance. On returning from Washington he was awarded the Order of the Bath. At the award ceremony, Lord Selbourne said:

‘There [are] grounds to hope… that Poland’s Armed Forces [will] be able to free their country from the enemy in the very near future.’

In the last week before the Rising, the British Government was kept fully informed. On the 25th, the day of the Polish Cabinet’s decision, Ambassador Raczyński passed on the news that the Rising would take place in Warsaw. Shortly after, he passed on the information that the outbreak was imminent. The announcement caused a deep rift in British policy. The Foreign Office reacted negatively, telling Raczynski bluntly that no form of assistance could be given. The leaders of SOE, in contrast, reacted positively. At a meeting with General Tatar on 29 July, General Gubbins expressed approval of Polish requests for fighter support, bombing raids, and the deployment of the Polish Parachute Brigade. Lord Selborne sent the requests to Churchill in person, adding a strong recommendation for support.

Once the Rising broke out, British policy and British public opinion were necessarily subdued owing to the absence of independent sources of information. On the evening of 2 August Churchill addressed the House of Commons on the political problem within the Alliance by stressing both Poland’s courage and ‘Russia’s need for friendly neighbours’. (He pointedly made no reference to Poland’s need for friendly neighbours.) He then ordered the RAF to fly supply missions to Warsaw from their bases in southern Italy, thereby initiating the long saga of the Warsaw Airlift.

The Foreign Office, in contrast, displayed an extraordinary degree of lethargy, which can be partly explained by divided counsels and partly by the existence of Soviet moles in its ranks. (Christopher Hill, the historian, who was later shown to have been a secret member of the Communist Party, was in charge of the Foreign Office’s Soviet Desk.) It took four weeks for Eden to remedy his long-standing opposition to the despatch of a British Military Mission to Poland, and seven weeks to react to Ambassador Raczyński’s remonstrations about the killing and arrest of Home Army soldiers by the Soviet NKVD. On this last point, he casually informed the House of Commons on 27 September that the Soviet Embassy had denied the truth of the allegations (which, as is now known, were perfectly accurate.)

SOE, whose advice in support of active involvement was overruled, quickly lost its earlier enthusiasm for the Polish cause. General Gabbins, who had met Tatar on a weekly basis before the Rising, left for France on 13 August and was not seen again for three months. His deputy, Col. Perkins, reverted to the Foreign Office line and brutally berated the Poles for the lack of co-ordination. In reality, SOE had failed to match its earlier promises with regard to the supply of aircraft and the preparation of a regular ‘air bridge’ to Poland. According to a British specialist on the subject, (Ted Harrison), it would appear to have written the Warsaw Rising off and to have concentrated its efforts on the two countries, France and Yugoslavia, where its plans had been better laid.

Churchill was genuinely furious at Stalin’s callous reaction to the Warsaw Rising, and in particular at the Soviets’ denial of landing facilities for the RAF. He was eager that Roosevelt should join him in a forceful protest, and was dismayed by the President’s refusal to do so. Warsaw revealed Churchill’s declining influence among the ‘Big Three’.

Many British politicians were irritated by the frantic attempts of the Polish Government to arouse a greater sense of urgency. The Deputy PM, Clement Attlee, exclaimed ‘What more could we have done?’ But real anger was aroused by the Commander-in-Chief’s Order of the Day on 1 September – the 5th Anniversary of the outbreak of war – when he openly criticised Britain for repaying a loyal ally with less than fulsome support. One British minister commented: ‘The Empire has been insulted’. Few Britishers realised that the Commander-in-Chief had been personally opposed to the Rising. He was now blamed for the crisis caused by the Rising; and his dismissal was widely demanded.

In September, the most urgent item of business was to repair Poland’s rift with Moscow and thereby to increase the chances of a Soviet rescue for Warsaw. Premier Mikołajczyk’s revised proposals were submitted to the Foreign Office on 30 August, and were thereon transmitted to the Soviet Embassy. But once again, the Foreign Office showed no willingness to act as an honest broker or to speed a settlement. Similarly, no energy was displayed in organising the British military mission to the Home Army, even when the matter had been decided in principle.

Throughout the Warsaw Rising, British public opinion was deeply divided. A vociferous section of the left-wing press led by the Daily Herald and the Daily Worker was actively pro-Soviet, shamelessly repeating Moscow’s line about the Rising being a ‘criminal adventure’ run by ‘fascists’ and ‘reactionaries’. The foreign columns of The Times, led by E.H. Carr, followed a similar line in more guarded language. Yet most people were simply bewildered. There was no shortage of praise for Poland’s courage but equally no explanation why Allied policy was so ineffective. The underlying problems were rarely understood. And little discussion was spent on critical issues, such as Stalin’s ban on the airlift or the weeks of Soviet inactivity on the Vistula after Rokossovsky’s initial setback. The Foreign Secretary, Anthony Eden, did not face prolonged or determined questioning from the House of Commons until the Rising’s very last days.

Only one powerful voice was raised against the prevailing complacency. On 1 September, George Orwell, who at the time was writing Animal Farm, published a trenchant piece to the socialist journal Tribune. He condemned the lack of principle in the press in general and in the left-wing press in particular. His immediate target was a young historian, Geoffrey Barraclough, then working at the Foreign Office. But his criticisms were aimed at the public at large whose infatuation with the Soviet Union obstructed all serious analysis.

Once the Home Army had capitulated, there was an effusive outpouring of sympathy, and widespread hand-wringing about ‘the Warsaw tragedy’. But there was little readiness among the British public and still less in Government circles, to reflect on Britain’s contribution to the tragedy. Britons, already anticipating the end of the war, were in no mood to dwell on their failures.

Churchill took Mikołajczyk with him to Moscow in early October to resume the Polish-Soviet talks postponed for two months. In the course of a dramatic meeting with Molotov, it was revealed that a year earlier at Teheran Churchill had secretly proposed the Curzon Line as a basis of the future Polish-Soviet frontier. In other words, all the territorial plans and negotiations throughout 1944, which had poisoned relations with Stalin, and had minimised the chances of his co-operation during the Rising, had been conducted on false assumptions. Churchill, shame-facedly admitted his fault, but later turned his rage on the Polish premier whom he had so inexcusably misled. This must be one of the most discreditable episodes of Churchill’s career. Mikołajczyk soon resigned; and the close alliance between the British and Polish Governments ceased to function.

In 1944-45, a series of events occurred which may be seen as the tail-end of affairs connected with the Rising. On 26 December 1944, for example, the Freston Mission to the Home Army finally landed in Poland and made contact with the Underground. It quickly found itself in an NKVD jail. This was the mission which PM Mikołajczyk had requested in February, and which could greatly have improved intelligence and liaison in the run up to the Rising. In the words of one of its participants, it was ‘a complete waste of time’. In January-February 1945, the Yalta Conference took place. Western leaders abandoned all effective influence in Poland and Eastern Europe in return for Stalin’s co-operation in Germany and in the Far East. This outcome would have been unthinkable if the Warsaw Rising had succeeded. Shortly afterwards, 16 democratic leaders from the Polish Underground, who had lived through the Rising and who would have formed a crucial element in the political system proposed for Poland at Yalta, were arrested by the NKVD. Their show trial in Moscow in June, coincided with the formation of the so-called Government of National Unity in which they might otherwise have participated. The Chief Defendant, General Okulicki – Bór-Komorowski’s sometime deputy and successor as Commander of the Home Army, who had originally been flown into occupied Europe by the RAF, was not broken by his interrogators and delivered a defiant speech from the dock. He subsequently died in the Lubyanka. His British allies, whose Ambassador was present at the trial, did not protest.

Prof. Norman Davies

..........
Regards
mack pl


PS. my master work in my university is about SOE ;)