How is the USMC Growler working out?

[Britboy]

To anyone here in the USMC, how is the GROWLER light veh working out for you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_(vehicle) Found this whilst idly browsing around Wiki, on a link from a USMC Gelandewagen of all things!

Just wondering how they're doing as they seem like a bloody pricey bit of kit, when something like a Land Rover 90, Jackal, or ATV could also fit the bill.

[Hun Ranger (not real)]

Its looks like the robocop version of the old jeep.

[lt tahoe]

Linkee no workee! Maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_(vehicle)

[Britboy]

Oops! Cheers Lt Tahoe, I seem to have chopped off a close-brackets on that link.

A million dollars for a jeep to tow a mortar, according to that link, and 200 000 for different versions. Ok so it may well be out a certain amount, but even allowing for that it seems a pricey project.

Still, they should have started hitting the operating forces in the last few months, so has anyone worked with them?

[big_les]

I can't believe they named a fighting vehicle after the female reproductive organ.

[Britboy]

Well, we do have the Snatch. And the Vixen Snatch now! I wonder if it will be gwar...

Next up, the FV582 Furry Axe Wound, a new armoured fighting vehicle.

[shuredgefan]

Unfortunately, the pentagon types are used to demanding custom-designed stuff. That's OK when you're buying thousands of item X, but it doesn't really work when you're buying dozens of item X.

[Soldat_Américain]

Just give me the Willys MB any day.

[KEEPER0311]

Just give me the Willys MB any day.

Meh, they Pentagon will spend billions on some high speed jeep. But it'll never filter down to the infantry. And if it does they units will be to scared that it'll get broken and unable to be replaced. So they'll end up sitting in the motor pool except when the brass wants to show off, and us grunts will still be humping all of our gear.

[VansRV]

Corps pays $100K for retooled jeep By Steven Komarow, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The Marine Corps is paying $100,000 apiece for a revamped Vietnam-era jeep as part of its program to outfit the hybrid airplane-helicopter V-22 Osprey, Pentagon records show.
http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gifhttp://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/12/29/growler-100K.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gifThe $100,000 U.S. Marine version of the Growler combat vehicle.http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gifMarine Corps file photoThat's seven times what a deluxe commercial version of the vehicle costs. It's also three times what U.S. Export-Import Bank records show the Dominican Republic paid four years ago for a military version of the vehicle, called the Growler, a recycled version of the M151 jeep.
The Marines and the contractor, General Dynamics, say the vehicle has been thoroughly revised with modern automotive parts and adapted to fit on the V-22.
"Yes, it did start off with jeep technology, and it does look like a jeep in a lot of ways," says John Garner, the Marines project manager. But he says it's now "state of the art."
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/12/29/growler-DR.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear1x5.gifAmerican GrowlerVehicle that American Growler sold to the Dominican Republic's military for $33,000.http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear1x5.gifDanielle Brian, executive director of the Project on Government Oversight, a non-profit group that monitors Pentagon contracts, says taxpayers are getting a deal that "stinks" on an unarmored vehicle that makes no sense for today's missions, where troops face ambushes and roadside bombs.
"In a time of war, we should not be wasting money on a junker which will not protect our troops," Brian says. Under current military safety rules, the Growler would be barred from service in Iraq except as a utility vehicle that doesn't leave the security of a base.
The Marines have budgeted to buy more than 400 Growlers, along with a French mortar and ammunition that it would tow, under a contract that could total $296 million.
The Growler beat two other vehicles for the contract, Garner says.
Built by Ocala, Fla.-based American Growler, the original Growler is made partly from salvaged M151 jeep parts and is available in several versions for as little as $7,500 in kit form. At the high end, there's a $14,500 upgraded "tactical dune buggy" with a "bikini top."
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/12/29/growler-7K.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear1x5.gifAmerican GrowlerThe UV100DB, which is the same vehicle you can buy from American Growler in a kit and put together yourself for about $7,500.http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear1x5.gifThe Marines' version has considerable upgrades from the commercial and Dominican Republic models, the Corps and contractor say, including a turbo-diesel engine, disc brakes and other systems adapted from modern vehicles.
"It's not your grandfather's jeep," says Kendell Pease, a General Dynamics spokesman.
The Osprey is a twin-engine airplane that turns its rotors up for vertical takeoff and landing like a helicopter.
Under development since 1986, the V-22 is scheduled to go into service in 2007. It has a history of technical problems and several fatal crashes.
The Growler is expected to be deployed with the V-22 in 2007, Pease says.

http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_images/black.gif
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-12-28-corps-jeep_x.htm

[Soldat_Américain]

they need to buy cheep one and put it together in the motorpool

[Britboy]

Looks like a dinky little thing that's pretty much like the Tomcar or M-Gator. Or even the Land Rover Defender 90 really. Not sure you'd get a Landy on a helo though, and the Tomcar can apparently be uparmoured, which is a plus for contemporary ops.

It does seem blumming pricey for a reworked MUTT. You'd possibly be better off with something like a quad bike/ATV for when it must fit inside a helo, and something like Jackal or a Hummvee for when thats not a drama.

[Dan2004]

Kinda makes you wonder how many old CJs there are lying around...

[velvet-cream]

Why spend that much money for a vehicle that (i'm assuming) is purchased for the purpose of of being air transportable in a V22, when the only role it will be confined to is light duties inside a military base?

Buy a land cruiser and save millions.

[Soldat_Américain]

Why spend that much money for a vehicle that (i'm assuming) is purchased for the purpose of of being air transportable in a V22, when the only role it will be confined to is light duties inside a military base?

Buy a land cruiser and save millions.
Toyota Sequoia

[lt tahoe]

Well, we do have the Snatch. And the Vixen Snatch now! I wonder if it will be gwar...


Tell you what, I did a search to see what that vehicle is....it's amazing what comes up for "vixen snatch" on search engines :)

[big_les]

Well, we do have the Snatch. And the Vixen Snatch now! I wonder if it will be gwar...

Next up, the FV582 Furry Axe Wound, a new armoured fighting vehicle.

Good point! I'm a fan of Gash, personally.

[ARGAR FORKBEARD]

from when the contract was awarded 2004 to 2008, the average cost of a growler rose 120% to $209,000, and the average cost of a mortar towing growler rose 86% to $1,078,000. crikey!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DANGER_CLOSE]

i know that the itv flyer was tested and to me looked like a better candidate for the itv. the growler reminds me of the ol' m151 fav's we used to use, just a dressed up turd.

http://www.marvingroup.com/flyer/index.htm

[Britboy]

ITV Flyer? Wassat?

Why not USMC Gelandewagen IFAV-thingy for a light veh you can get in a big helo/tiltrotor?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/USMC_Fast_Attack_Vehicle_%28IFAV%29.1.JPEG

[DANGER_CLOSE]

i know that the marine corps just ordered more of the ifav's. they barely fit in the ch-53e. do they even fit inside the osprey? the flyer was sized down a bit to fit internally.

[Razvodnik]

AFAIK the Germans use the "Wolf" in there CH53G, but the versions you can lower the windshield. Search for "Luftverlastbar" or "Fallschirmjäger"
I´m wondering why the US don´t let build the G-Class from one of the their producers i.e. Freightliner (The Sprinter is also a german product)? The Greeks have an assembly line, the French are building the vehicle at Panhard. I think it would be the cheapest and usefulst way for the DoD.

[Pooterman]

I am taking a growler right now

[USMCRTop]

I know I am old now- one reason I didn't like the HUMMV , was that it wouldn't fit inside a 53 like the jeep did- now the corps seems to be re-inventing the wheel by spending big bucks on something that will fit inside the osprey (and the 53, I'm sure)- shoulda just made new jeeps- reminds me of the recent thread where there was talk of bringing the OV-10 back- shoulda never got rid of it- whatever happened to the old Corps manner of keeping old gear around 25 plus years ?

[Wilco]

The Osprey is a ****ing TIGHT fit, I don't know what could fit in that thing.

[LazerLordz]

Why not the G-Wagen?

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mercedesgwagon/images/4-armed--g-wagen.jpg

[asch]

The Osprey is a ****ing TIGHT fit, I don't know what could fit in that thing.
http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/2009/05/19/57/573e351360d32b17ecbf427209ff5f0a.jpg
p-) .

[KEEPER0311]

I know I am old now- one reason I didn't like the HUMMV , was that it wouldn't fit inside a 53 like the jeep did- now the corps seems to be re-inventing the wheel by spending big bucks on something that will fit inside the osprey (and the 53, I'm sure)- shoulda just made new jeeps- reminds me of the recent thread where there was talk of bringing the OV-10 back- shoulda never got rid of it- whatever happened to the old Corps manner of keeping old gear around 25 plus years ?

Top, we still got the Amtracks that have been in service since the late 70's. And I think my company has SAWs that saw action in Desert Storm.

[SilentType]

Meanwhile there is still replacement for the AAV and the Marines are still running old run down LAVs.

Maybe someone down at the Pentagon needs to be let go or retire? Seriously, seems like their priorities are bit out of wack with the Growler and V-22.

[KEEPER0311]

Meanwhile there is still replacement for the AAV and the Marines are still running old run down LAVs.

Maybe someone down at the Pentagon needs to be let go or retire? Seriously, seems like their priorities are bit out of wack with the Growler and V-22.

Not so much, yes as a Corps we must keep our Amphibious capabilities. But look at our current wars. Not much need to use the AAVs, hell most of those guys use them two months out of the year, and the rest of the time, they're AmGrunts. I do agree with the highers in getting a new medium lift aircraft going to fill the gap that the aging CH-46's are leaving.

[Soldat_Américain]

Meanwhile there is still replacement for the AAV and the Marines are still running old run down LAVs.

Maybe someone down at the Pentagon needs to be let go or retire? Seriously, seems like their priorities are bit out of wack with the Growler and V-22.
Well from what I understand all the accidents that happened with the Osprey happened with the Chinook...not exactly but that certain people wanted to get both these birds into service, and that a lot of accidents happened with both.

[cone256]

Top, we still got the Amtracks that have been in service since the late 70's. And I think my company has SAWs that saw action in Desert Storm.

Haha I hear you on that one, my unit still only has the upgraded M16A1's that became the M16A2's.

[KEEPER0311]

Haha I hear you on that one, my unit still only has the upgraded M16A1's that became the M16A2's.

It's strange in my friends in the Army have told me about things like this, using A1 and A2's. The last time I saw an M16A2 was in bootcamp.

[Chiptox]

$200k for an updated MUTT... wow.

Why don't they just take H3s, dip them in molten gold, inlay the dash with ivory diamonds and rubies, and stuff the mink fur lined seats with califonia condor feathers if they need a ridiculously expensive Ospreymobile.

It'd be cheaper and it would have OnStar.

[Soldat_Américain]

This is OnStar how may I help you?