Gas deal between Turkey and EU breaks Russian stranglehold

[The Dane]

The European Union (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/eu) and Turkey (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/turkey) have struck a ground-breaking gas pipeline deal unlocking a potential energy (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/energy) bonanza in the Caspian basin after more than a year of deadlock, according to senior EU officials.

The agreement, to be signed in Ankara on 25 June, represents a major boost to the EU's ill-starred Nabucco pipeline project, which is intended to transport natural gas to Europe from central Asia, the Caucasus and the Middle East, and is the key to breaking the Kremlin's stranglehold over Europe's gas imports. "This is a complete breakthrough," said a senior EU official involved in the tough negotiations with Turkey. "The Turks have accepted our terms. There is no conditionality."

The €9bn Nabucco project is at the centre of a contest pitting Russia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/russia) against the EU and involving Turkey, Germany, Austria, Azerbaijan and the authoritarian regimes of central Asia in the effort to secure Europe's gas needs while curbing the hold Moscow and the gas monopoly Gazprom have over the supply lines. The case for Nabucco is debated, but was reinforced by Russia's gas war with Ukraine in January, which caused havoc with Gazprom supplies to eastern and central Europe. There had been similar disputes in 2006 and 2007.

Nabucco, stretching more than 2,000 miles from Turkey's eastern border to Europe's main gas hub outside Vienna, would be the main route for pumping gas to Europe not controlled by Gazprom. But the plan had faltered over deadlock between the EU and Turkey over the pipeline transit agreement. More than half the pipeline is to be located in Turkey, making it the gatekeeper of Europe's energy supplies.

Ankara has been driving a hard bargain, insisting on collecting a "tax" on the gas being pumped and demanding 15% of the transit gas at discounted prices. This, say EU officials and the six-company consortium that is to build and run the pipeline, would render Nabucco financially unviable.

The stalemate was broken at a summit in Prague last Friday between the EU and the countries involved. "The 15% demand has gone," Andris Piebalgs, the EU commissioner for energy, told the Guardian. "We've agreed on cost-based transit. We're very close to a conclusion." A senior Czech official organising the summit likened the negotiations to "bargaining in an Istanbul souk", while an EU envoy to the region worried that "nothing is done until it's done".

But the European commission president, José Manuel Barroso, said President Abdullah Gül of Turkey assured him the deal would be signed within weeks. "That's what President Gül told me," he said.

The Turkish leader indirectly linked any Nabucco deal with progress on Ankara's negotiations with Brussels on joining the EU. The negotiations are being blocked by Greek Cypriots, while several big EU states are quietly happy to see Turkey's EU bid frozen. But Barroso and others insisted that Ankara was not setting conditions for a Nabucco agreement.

The EU imports about one-third, or 140bn cubic metres, of its gas from Russia. The "southern corridor" – Nabucco and two other pipelines – is supposed to pump 60bn cubic metres a year, or 10% of requirements by 2020, bypassing Russia.

Building of the Nabucco pipeline has been delayed while the projected costs have soared, leading critics to describe the scheme as a pipedream.

But the Prague summit and the imminent pact with Turkey appear to have resurrected the project.

The consortium that is planning to build and manage a pipeline stretching more than 2,050 miles from Turkey's eastern border through the Balkans to Baumgarten, east of Vienna, is headed by OMV, the Austrian oil and gas firm, with four national energy corporations – Botas of Turkey, Bulgargaz of Bulgaria, Transgaz of Romania, and MOL of Hungary, plus RWE, the German energy group that joined the consortium last year even though its government prefers collaboration with Gazprom and opposes Nabucco. All six are grouped in Nabucco Gas Pipeline International.

As well as Nabucco, the Europeans spoke specifically for the first time about supporting the building of a pipeline under the Caspian Sea connecting Turkmenistan and central Asia to Azerbaijan. The central Asian gas was up for grabs, said the senior EU official, and if Europe did not get there first, it would go to Russia or China.

If Nabucco is to happen, it will initially need the gas from Azerbaijan's BP-run Shah Deniz-2 field. But officials in Brussels view Turkmenistan, with its vast gas deposits, as the key to its longer-term viability.

The Russians are pressing the central Asians and Azerbaijan hard to try to put a stop to Nabucco and retain control of all the supply routes to the west. The Turkmens attended the Prague summit, but declined to commit, apparently deciding to try to play the Russians off against the Europeans.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/may/11/eu-turkey-nabucco-gas-pipeline

[void]

I thought the biggest problem with the Nabucco pipeline was that there was no gas for it, since all of the significant Caspian Sea states have very long term contracts to supply through the Russian network. So the pipeline might be built, but there wont be anybody supplying the gas at the other end.

[The Dane]

So the pipeline might be built, but there wont be anybody supplying the gas at the other end.

Use €9bn on something useless.. ?
Naah.. i think they(EU) got that part covered as well ;)


If Nabucco is to happen, it will initially need the gas from Azerbaijan's BP-run Shah Deniz-2 field. But officials in Brussels view Turkmenistan, with its vast gas deposits, as the key to its longer-term viability.

They just need too give Turkmenistan a better offer than Russia..

[Flamming_Python]

They just need too give Turkmenistan a better offer than Russia..

Not that simply; Central Asian governments are making $$$ by making overtures to the West in order to secure as best a deal as possible from Russia.

[AlexMartin2]

I love western media :)


The €9bn Nabucco project is at the centre of a contest pitting Russia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/russia) against the EU and involving Turkey, Germany, Austria, Azerbaijan and the authoritarian regimes of central Asia

From their perspective it looks like Azerbaijan isn't an authoritarian state, gygygy :)

[void]

I dont think that the Central Asian states are really "against" Russia per se. They really just want the best deal, and arent going to care about the energy security issues of the EU. If Russia offers them a better deal, they'll take it, and at the moment, it would look like they arent interested in Nabucco as much as the EU would hope.

[dragonunion]

It is all about business as usual. Why must Central Asia states care about energy security of Europe? They will sell their gas for the one who pay the best money. It can be Russia, Europe, even China or India.

But Nabucco itself is not something that will ensure Europe's energy security because it can only carry a small amount of gas to Europe, compare to today level, don't say about future. So, even if Europe don't want, they will have to work with Russian in the end.

[Empulse]

I dont think that the Central Asian states are really "against" Russia per se. They really just want the best deal, and arent going to care about the energy security issues of the EU. If Russia offers them a better deal, they'll take it, and at the moment, it would look like they arent interested in Nabucco as much as the EU would hope.

Enough possibilities to make them more interested such as political support, economic incentives and so on. In the short-term Russia will dominate oil and primarily gas export to Europe, in the mid/long-term this could be changed. They should continue to focus on Northern-Africa and obviously strengthen ties with Central-Asian republics. Apart from Libya, there are plenty of other solutions:



01.10.09, 12:37 PM EST
ALGIERS, Jan 10 (*******) - Algeria and the Netherlands discussed on Saturday a partnership involving Nigeria and Royal Dutch Shell in a project to pipe Nigerian gas to Europe across the Sahara, Algerian official media reported.
Algerian Energy and Mines Minister Chakib Khelil said the topic was raised in talks he had with Dutch Economic Affairs Minister Maria van der Hoeven, the official Algerian news agency APS reported.
‘The Energy Minister indicated that the two parties had raised the possibility of a partnership between Sonatrach, the Nigerian hydrocarbon company NNPC and the Ango-Dutch Shell company to develop the mega-project of the Trans Sahara Gas Pipeline linking Nigeria to Europe via Algeria,’ APS reported.


Europe should have no problems making better offers to Central Europe than Russia, but in the coming years, Russia will maintain its dominant position. However, they have been very stupid to invest their money only in this sector (the vast majority). Should they have invested in other economic sectors, their economy would have been much stronger than it currently is. If a substitute product for oil and gas is brought onto the market in the coming years, I am afraid the Russian economy will suffer severely.

[TheArmenian]

Nabucco Dead Again



Today the EU signed a joint declaration on project of Nabucco gas pipeline (http://english.pravda.ru/business/finance/101519-1/) construction with Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey and Egypt - Interfax.
According to some diplomatic sources, at the energy summit (http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/07/30/11317.html) in Prague the EU failed to reach the expected "political support' of the project, as they have information that Kazakhstan, Turkmenia and Uzbekistan didn't sign the declaration, Georgia Times (http://www.georgiatimes.info/en/articles/12109.html) reports.
Turkemenistan, Uzbekistan and Gazprom have not signed on for Nabucco. It's not likely that they will. This makes the project dead for all practical purposes.
What good is a gas pipeline that has no gas? It's really a pathetic attempt on the part of the EU and some sychophant countries to sidestep Russia.
They can't do it. In no way does the project make sense or have a chance of success under these circumstances.



Source: http://www.moscowtopnews.com/?area=postView&id=1057

Sorry, don't open that champagne bottle yet.

[Empulse]

Source: http://www.moscowtopnews.com/?area=postView&id=1057

Sorry, don't open that champagne bottle yet.

The objective media of mother Russia, right?


What good is a gas pipeline that has no gas? It's really a pathetic attempt on the part of the EU and some sychophant countries to sidestep Russia.

:roll:

[tea drinker]

But the problem with gas supply to Europe to Ukraine, was Ukraine?
It didn't want to pay market rate, but the commie buddy rate (which they aren't.)

So while I am obviously in favour of diverse patchs for viable gas/energy supplies, it seems to be being sold as a victory over Russia, when it isn't.

[TheArmenian]

The objective media of mother Russia, right?



:roll:

I will definitly admit that the above source is pro-Russian.

However, I have also watched and listened to the same on Euronews and other Western channels.

I am sure you can find the same news if you google rather than dismiss it.

Again, sorry, no champagne.

[Anomander]

Deal or no deal, it really just shows how important it is that we(EU) move away from energy we get from fossile fuels. I think Nuclear energy is the best solution for now. Theres plenty of uranium within EU and many other different states that are willing to sell, if one source dries up for whatever reason.

[Hollereer]

As a dutchman i can only laugh about this stupid gas problem :P

[TheArmenian]

Deal or no deal, it really just shows how important it is that we(EU) move away from energy we get from fossile fuels. I think Nuclear energy is the best solution for now. Theres plenty of uranium within EU and many other different states that are willing to sell, if one source dries up for whatever reason.

I have always been a supporter of Nuclear energy. Shame that politics and geopolitics gets into the way sometimes.

[TheArmenian]

As a dutchman i can only laugh about this stupid gas problem :P

A lot of people have gas problems. You don't have have to be a Dutchman to laugh when they open the gas valve

roflroflrofl

[Try&die]

As a dutchman i can only laugh about this stupid gas problem :P

We will see what will happen if you have no gas in your house. You will freeze like hell.( ironic isn't it )
I would stop laughing if I were you:)

[Aor]

Europe has to become energy independent. Right now the oil reserves in Europe are enough for a few days. If the flow of oil from the persian gulf stopped we are in a far worse situation than the Americans. Furthermore the middle east is dominated by the whims of the U.S, Israel, or the various Arab blocs that include fundamentalists and totalitarian regimes. It is not a friendly neighbourhood and Europe is not as influential there as it should. Soft power is all nice and rosy, but more often than not it is the one that carries the bigger stick that has his way in that area. The gas pipelines, ALL gas pipelines, are succeptible to the various machinations of the producer country and the various states and regions the whole project passes through. Some yell at Russia, but who can guarantee that the Ukraine, Turkey, or some other country won't try to disturb the flow of gas to the European market to arm twist the E.U to some political gain. Europe should stand on its own feet. We depend too much on an unreliable U.S and the cooperation of countries with different values or political agendas . This has to stop.

[DS73]

We will see what will happen if you have no gas in your house. You will freeze like hell.( ironic isn't it )
I would stop laughing if I were you:)
Why he wouldn't have gas in his house?

and why he would freeze like hell? you live in the Nl, so you should know it's not Siberia quite yet.

[Try&die]

Why he wouldn't have gas in his house?

and why he would freeze like hell? you live in the Nl, so you should know it's not Siberia quite yet.

It was not literally meant. I just gave a possible consequence..
Maybe I'll put some more smilies next time..:bash:

[ting]

Looks to me that this is a done deal, since they won't sign before the contracts are more or less in place. The suppliers are probably not going to commit before they are sure it's a done deal, since their current supplier of gas transport services has a tendency to appear quite vengeful. It's in their long term interest to have competition over these transport services, so I think they will do what they can to make this thing work.

Personally I wonder if the Russian government/Gazprom are going to try something to sabotage this deal. They have about a month to do it, so this will be interesting.

[ting]

It was not literally meant. I just gave a possible consequence..
Maybe I'll put some more smilies next time..:bash:
Quick note: The Dutch have plenty of Gas in the North Sea.

[Try&die]

Quick note: The Dutch have plenty of Gas in the North Sea.

They must be lucky thenwoot

[ting]

They must be lucky thenwoot

Yep they are.:)

[zg18]

Looks to me that this is a done deal, since they won't sign before the contracts are more or less in place. The suppliers are probably not going to commit before they are sure it's a done deal, since their current supplier of gas transport services has a tendency to appear quite vengeful. It's in their long term interest to have competition over these transport services, so I think they will do what they can to make this thing work.

Personally I wonder if the Russian government/Gazprom are going to try something to sabotage this deal. They have about a month to do it, so this will be interesting.

Nabucco is far from done deal , Azerbaijan natural gas resources are not enough to supply needed quotas for Nabucco pipeline , what Europe needs is to get Central Asian states into the project , but that's another story because geopolitically these states are in the "wrong side" of Caspian lake, and Russians know this and Chinese also and they are naturally in advantege for their own energy projects , not to mention that EU inflenence in energy sphere is weak and it's going to be even weaker because Eastern Asian markets will take primate in energy consumption , this is a sort of gamble in long turn perspective , EU needs to give to much to get really something , not to mention Turkeys position and German support for "North Stream" and Italian for "South Stream" , you don't have to be Einstein to clearly see that Nabucco is sort of panic project because of fear from Russia which makes stakes and price even higher.

[Empulse]

Quick note: The Dutch have plenty of Gas in the North Sea.

Not really in the North Sea, but in the northern provinces instead.

and:
While its oil reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves) in the North Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea) are of little importance, the Netherlands is presently the second-greatest natural gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas) producer in the European Union and the ninth-greatest in the world, accounting for more than 30% of EU total annual gas production and about 2.7% of the annual world total. Proven natural gas reserves of the Netherlands are estimated (as of January 2005) at about 50-60 trillion cubic feet, or about 0.9% of the world total.

[ting]

Nabucco is far from done deal , Azerbaijan natural gas resources are not enough to supply needed quotas for Nabucco pipeline , what Europe needs is to get Central Asian states into the project , but that's another story because geopolitically these states are in the "wrong side" of Caspian lake, and Russians know this and Chinese also and they are naturally in advantege for their own energy projects , not to mention that EU inflenence in energy sphere is weak and it's going to be even weaker because Eastern Asian markets will take primate in energy consumption , this is a sort of gamble in long turn perspective , EU needs to give to much to get really something , not to mention Turkeys position and German support for "North Stream" and Italian for "South Stream" , you don't have to be Einstein to clearly see that Nabucco is sort of panic project because of fear from Russia which makes stakes and price even higher.

I think the parties involved in this project have a handle on the difficulties. For the suppliers the benefit is clear since there is competition for their product. There is also Iran and Iraq as possible suppliers.

AFAIK Nabucco has been in the works for quite some time. However I think the benefits of the project have become much clearer in these last couple of years.;-)

[ting]

Not really in the North Sea, but in the northern provinces instead.

and:
While its oil reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves) in the North Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea) are of little importance, the Netherlands is presently the second-greatest natural gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas) producer in the European Union and the ninth-greatest in the world, accounting for more than 30% of EU total annual gas production and about 2.7% of the annual world total. Proven natural gas reserves of the Netherlands are estimated (as of January 2005) at about 50-60 trillion cubic feet, or about 0.9% of the world total.

Northern provinces as in I open a dyke and it's part of the north sea again?;-)

[zg18]

I think the parties involved in this project have a handle on the difficulties. For the suppliers the benefit is clear since there is competition for their product. There is also Iran and Iraq as possible suppliers.

AFAIK Nabucco has been in the works for quite some time. However I think the benefits of the project have become much clearer in these last couple of years.;-)

So if EU can't get Central Asia , i will agree Iran is logical choice. But it will make Nabucco even more expensive , because it's energy complex is undeveloped in contrast will legacy Soviet energy complex in Central Asia , it will also bear another implications , you're wrong if you think Russia and Iran are competitors ,their cooperation is beyond convenience , Iran is also logical choice for logistical center for ISAF in Afghanistan but it refused all offers to strenghthen Russian position , Russia will undaubtedly return a favour.

[Empulse]

Northern provinces as in I open a dyke and it's part of the north sea again?;-)

Haha. You know, I've been living in Germany for some time and they always told me that in some years it will be Cologne am See. As long as there are the Dutch, there will be dykes and there will Holland ;)

Anyhow, I really don't like the fact that we're exporting so much of the gas to Germany and other countries. We are a small country and we should keep this valuable asset for ourselves. It is estimated that we'll run out of gas at around 2025. They should reduce the export volumes and use the money gained for future economic projects. Currently, we're paying off the government debts with it... no a wise ''investment'', in my opinion. How is the situation in Norway?

(sorry for going offtopic :) )

[ting]

So if EU can't get Central Asia , i will agree Iran is logical choice. But it will make Nabucco even more expensive , because it's energy complex is undeveloped in contrast will legacy Soviet energy complex in Central Asia , it will also bear another implications , you're wrong if you think Russia and Iran are competitors ,their cooperation is beyond convenience , Iran is also logical choice for logistical center for ISAF in Afghanistan but it refused all offers to strenghthen Russian position , Russia will undaubtedly return a favour.

I get the impression you are viewing this as a kind of zero sum game. If you do that your assumptions and conclusions will get more and more inaccurate.

This is about finding the best price for your gas in about 5 to 10 years time, not tomorrow. The Iranians today are not a popular partner, but who knows in 5 years time?

As for your assertions about ISAF supply base. No one has asked Iran for that. All that has happened is contingency planning. I doubt the US would at the present time ask this of the Iranians, since that would be politically too difficult.

PS. Please use punctuation . as well as comma , It would make it easier for readers to understand what you write.;)


Haha. You know, I've been living in Germany for some time and they always told me that in some years it will be Cologne am See. As long as there are the Dutch, there will be dykes and there will Holland ;)

Anyhow, I really don't like the fact that we're exporting so much of the gas to Germany and other countries. We are a small country and we should keep this valuable asset for ourselves. It is estimated that we'll run out of gas at around 2025. They should reduce the export volumes and use the money gained for future economic projects. Currently, we're paying off the government debts with it... no a wise ''investment'', in my opinion. How is the situation in Norway?

(sorry for going offtopic :) )

If you don't tell the mods I wont.:lol:

I think the plan is to stabilize the gas production at the 2015 level or something. I think that level is supposed to remain to about 2050 if there are no new discoveries or technological improvements. So we should be fine. Oil on the other hand has peaked and is declining, however increases in gas production should replace the income from the decline in oil production.

On the economic front our situation is just peachy. We have payed off all the government debt and have for the last 10-15 years been saving money in an oil fund, since we would get the Dutch disease if we spent all that money. We would have liked to spend more on infrastructure, however any more money spent would just drive up inflation.

Now when the financial crisis is setting in there is room for more infrastructure spending, and the government has started more infrastructure projects. We could of course do like the Gulf states do, and import cheap(slave) labor from poor countries. However this goes against basic Norwegian values, and hence won't be done.

[Hollereer]

Northern provinces as in I open a dyke and it's part of the north sea again?;-)

Never! Holland StrOng!11!!!! You will have to open at least 2 dykes :P.

[deli_dumrul]

ISTANBUL - The Nabucco pipeline, which will carry Caspian andMiddle Eastern gas to Europe via Turkey, will be designed to operate in the opposite direction in order to provide for the energy needs of Turkey in times of crisis. Turkey was right to be concerned about its own energy security, says EUCommissioner Piebalgs, adding Ankara got what it wanted

The intergovernmental agreement on the Nabucco pipeline project, which will bring Caspian and Middle Eastern natural gas to Europe, puts into place the physical infrastructure to alleviate Turkey’s concerns for its own energy needs, a senior European commissioner has said.

Turkey got what it wanted and probably more than it wanted, Andris Piebalgs, European commissioner on energy issues told Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review. Piebalgs answered questions from the Daily News in a written interview ahead of the signing ceremony for the agreement that will take place on Monday in Ankara (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/Ankara/). Piebalgs will come to Turkey to attend the ceremony for the agreement, which took years to negotiate.

One of the reasons for the delay was Turkey’s request for part of the gas allocated for its own needs.

"Turkey quite rightly wanted to make sure that its security needs were satisfied. I have always thought this was a normal and fair position," he said. "It would not be acceptable to any country to see gas pass through its territory, destined for another market, when the domestic market is starved of gas. Turkey wanted a mechanism to avoid that," said Piebalgs, explaining the formula that allowed the consensus.

"The agreement puts in place the physical infrastructure for that to be ensured and then says that Turkey and the EU member states involved will respect commercial agreements that will supply gas to Turkey in the event of a crisis," he said. "The physical infrastructure consists of pumps that work in both directions. Turkey traditionally has received gas from Russia, Azerbaijan and Iran (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/iran/); in the future it could get its gas, if and when needed, from any source connected to the European Union grid," Piebalgs added.

Complicated

It took five years to bring Nabucco to this point, as this project is more complicated than other projects. Unlike previous pipelines, it would not simply connect at the border with a supplier; it had to cover at least five jurisdictions, inside and outside the European Union, and it has potentially five supplier countries.

Although the European Commission was not directly involved in the choices to be made, it provided assistance to all sides at the negotiating table. Piebalgs compared the agreement to a train ticket. "A train ticket sets the price to use a train from one place to another. The agreement sets the price for taking gas from one place to another," he said.

Piebalgs dismissed criticisms that there is no gas to fill the pipeline. "We will not be short of gas. There are many options," he said.

"I think Azerbaijan and its Shah Deniz and ACG fields are the top priority. Iraq is certainly important and a country that we have many hopes for. We are in regular contact with the Iraqi authorities."

The commission started to explore possibilities for a buyer’s consortium to achieve a critical mass for new production development in Turkmenistan, said Piebalgs. "This is an area where we work closely together with Turkey, which shows a great interest in this project. Some other countries in Central Asia might also fill in the Nabucco pipeline in the future."

Piebalgs was less optimistic on Iran (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/iran/) as an option. "Iran has major gas reserves and will surely export them one day, but today it imports gas. On top of that, there are the political and legal issues," he said. "Until the outstanding questions are solved, Iran (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/iran/) will remain a difficult option," he added.

The commission will continue to closely follow the Nabucco project. "We will be especially interested in the upcoming open season for capacity allocation," said Piebalgs, adding that there will be two objectives in this regard: that Turkey gets a sufficient amount of gas to ensure the security of its supply and that capacity is sold for the long term over the greatest length of the pipeline.

"The commission has a clear preference that gas from Azerbaijan be accommodated first."

Turkey - EU relations

The European commissioner for energy also commented on the significance of the Nabucco pipeline on Turkey-EU relations.

"Nabucco is a good omen. It is positive that Turkey and the EU not only discuss controversial issues but also manage to agree on a strategic project that is important for both sides," said Piebalgs.

"It strengthens ties between Turkey and Europe. Nabucco not only makes the political climate better, but it also creates a physical link between us. In the long term, as the project develops, Turkey will increase its political presence and importance through the project," he added.

"There is also one important psychological effect in the European Union: For the first time, millions of European citizens Ğ those who have suffered from gas shortages during the last winters Ğ will see Turkey as a ’major helper’ in their quest for energy security. The same is also true in Turkey: For the first time in a domain as vital as energy security, Turkish citizens, businessmen and politicians will see that Turkey and the EU are dealing hand-in-hand with a common challenge."

Piebalgs said the commission fully supports the opening of the energy chapter. It has been impossible to start talks on the energy chapter because of the Greek Cypriot veto. The delay is regrettable for the commission, he said.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/finance/12048093.asp?scr=1

[deli_dumrul]

Turkey expects to receive €450 mln annually from Nabucco http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/p/english2008/spacer.gif

ANKARA - Some 2,000 kilometers of the 3,300-kilometer Nabucco pipeline will run through Turkish territory. That is why Ankara expects to receive about 400 million to 450 million euros annually under an intergovernmental agreement to be signed Monday

The proposed 3,300-kilometer Nabucco pipeline, hailed by Ankara (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/Ankara/) as the project of the 21st century, will not only tighten the bond between Turkey and the European Union but will also bring financial gains.

Because 2,000 kilometers of the pipeline will run through Turkish territory, Turkey expects to receive 60 percent of tax revenues or about 400 million to 450 million euros annually under an intergovernmental agreement to be signed Monday, said Foreign Ministry officials.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/recep_tayyip_erdo%C4%9Fan/) will host the Nabucco summit in Ankara (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/Ankara/), to be attended by the prime ministers of the transit countries that the pipeline will cross -Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Austria - as well as EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, U.S. Special Envoy for Eurasian Energy Richard Morningstar, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and potential supply countries’ ministers.

Ankara (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/Ankara/) sent an invitation to Russia for the multinational summit but has received no response so far, said officials.

Aimed at breaking Russia’s monopoly over natural gas supplies, Nabucco will transport 31 billion cubic meters of Caspian or Middle Eastern gas to the West via Turkey, which officials say is an indicator of the strong bond between Turkey and the EU. Its construction is expected to start in 2010 and be operational in 2014.

The intergovernmental agreement will not include the natural gas shared among participant states because Nabucco is a private sector project and governments own neither the pipeline nor the gas to be pumped, said ministry officials. But in parallel with the pipeline construction, a Caspian Development Cooperation will be set up, a mechanism whose modalities are still being discussed. It is expected to provide gas for member states with more reasonable prices. Officials said it is not clear yet by whom Turkey will be represented at the platform.

In the six-month period after the intergovernmental agreement is signed, the Nabucco consortium will pen a project support agreement with each participant government covering environment protection, insurance, property rights and currency transfer, said ministry officials.

"The intergovernmental agreement will serve to boost the credibility of the project. Potential supply countries will more seriously think about it," said an official.

The European Investment Bank is expected to finance one-fourth of the project. The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development has also expressed willingness to provide financing once it sees gas supply contracts, completion agreements and technical parameters.

"The Nabucco project is expected to cost 8 billion euros, while South Stream is said to cost 20 billion euros. This is enough to prove that Nabucco is more realistic," according to an official.

In Istanbul (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/index/istanbul/), Turkey’s Energy Minister Taner Yıldız said, "From now on, the EU will place cooperation and solidarity with Turkey at the forefront regarding energy." His remarks came after a meeting with Azerbaijani state oil company SOCAR Chairman Rovnag Abdullayev. Turkey cannot open the energy chapter in its negotiations with the EU due to objection from EU member Greek Cyprus.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/finance/12048098.asp?scr=1

[RIPTIDE]

Azerbaijan has already agreed gas deals with Russia that are better than Nabucco. Correct me if I'm wrong.

/thread.

[deli_dumrul]

Not worried about it.



UPDATE 2-Turkmenistan ready to supply gas for Nabucco link

Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:25pm EDT

(Recasts lead, adds background)
By Marat Gurt (http://blogs.*******.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=Marat.Gurt)
ASHGABAT, July 10 (*******) - Turkmenistan said on Friday it was ready to provide gas for the Nabucco pipeline, three months after Russia halted gas imports from the Central Asian state amid a row over shipments.
"Currently, Turkmenistan has excess gas for trade. We are ready to send it abroad to any customer. This includes Nabucco," Turkmen President Kurbanguly Berdymukhamedov told a government meeting, broadcast late on Friday on state television.

Russia, the main buyer of Turkmen gas, halted its imports in April after a pipeline which carries more than half of its most valuable export exploded and analysts have said Turkmenistan is losing up to $1 billion every month in lost gas export revenues.

Central Asia's biggest gas producer blamed Moscow for blowing up the pipeline, a charge Russia denies.

U.S. Undersecretary of State William Burns, in an interview with Turkmen state television also on Friday, said he had discussed energy cooperation with Berdymukhamedov during his tour in Central Asia.

A raft of transit agreements will be signed on Monday in Turkey by the architects of the EU and U.S.-backed Nabucco pipeline, which are expected to define where the pipeline will begin.

The pipeline group wants to pump 31 billion cubic metres of gas to Europe annually, meeting some 5 percent of gas needs, but a lack of supply agreements have hampered political will and financing, analysts say.
The Vienna-based project, due to come on stream by 2014, will bypass Russia, which currently supplies Europe with a quarter of its gas needs and whose spats with neighbouring transit countries in the past have halted supplies to the bloc.

Possible suppliers for the 7.9 billion euro ($11.01 billion) Nabucco project have included Iraq, Egypt, Iran (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/iran), Azerbaijan and possibly Russia and Turkmenistan.

Some analysts say Nabucco has better prospects than Russia's rival South Stream pipeline in the long run, though Russian gas export monopoly Gazprom (GAZP.MM (http://www.*******.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=GAZP.MM)) has fought hard to outpace it in the past year by signing up many East European countries.

Azerbaijan said on Friday that it has not given anyone -- neither Gazprom nor Nabucco -- priority for its gas coming from its Shakh Deniz fields.

Transit countries Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Austria will sign an accord on July 13 in Ankara. While it may help financing and reassure supplier countries, it will not be a big leap forward for a project already subject to delays.
($1=.7173 Euro) (Writing by Amie Ferris-Rotman in Moscow; Editing by Christian Wiessner)

http://www.*******.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLA2358920090710

[deli_dumrul]

TURKMENISTAN: GAZPROM WANTS ASHGABAT TO GIVE DEEP DISCOUNT ON NATURAL GAS
6/23/09
http://www.eurasianet.org/eurasianet/images/print_icon.gif Print this article (http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/news/articles/eav062309e_pr.shtml) http://www.eurasianet.org/eurasianet/images/email_icon.gif Email this article (http://www.eurasianet.org/email3.cfm)
Russian media outlets are reporting that the Kremlin-controlled conglomerate Gazprom is pushing for an almost 50 percent cut in the price it pays to the Turkmen government for natural gas.
A Gazprom delegation headed by Alexander Medvedev, the company’s deputy board chairman, was in Ashgabat on June 23. Medvedev was expected to seek a downward revision in the gas pricing structure. Gazprom paid $300 per thousand cubic meters of gas (tcm) during the January-March period of this year, according to Kommersant. Medvedev will reportedly offer to pay $220/tcm for Turkmen gas during the third quarter of 2009, and $160/tcm for the fourth quarter of this year.

Posted June 23, 2009 © Eurasianet


You don't have the money to buy all the gas in the region. During the first six months of the global crisis, Russia lost 1/3 of its currency reserves ($200 billion - this was months ago, I don't know the current numbers).

Not to mention, there is now competition for that gas... And you want to control the supply by asking for discounts?

[RIPTIDE]

Not worried about it.

Neither am I ;)

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=35216&tx_ttnews[backPid]=7&cHash=e2c72ea522


Meeting in Baku on June 29, Azerbaijan's President Ilham Aliyev and his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev witnessed the signing of an agreement on Azerbaijani gas deliveries to Russia. The initial volumes are small, but the agreement as such is a powerful reminder that the Western-backed Nabucco project depends existentially on Azerbaijani gas.

Moscow calculates that its agreement with Azerbaijan will undermine confidence in Nabucco and delay this project even further. From Azerbaijan's standpoint, however, the agreement just signed should serve as a wakeup call to the European Union and the United States. The intergovernmental agreement on Nabucco was supposed to be signed in June, but Turkey's AKP government continues delaying the project and obstructing the access of Azerbaijani gas to European markets. The message from Baku says that Brussels and Washington need to support Nabucco more convincingly through investment commitments and by pulling their weight with Ankara.

[sepheronx]

People keep on mentioning nuclear as an alternative. As much as nuclear fuel is a good way, it will take multiple nuclear facilities to power just 1 major city. Then not to mention the polution that is created from the facilities are toxic and considered as a danger to the enviornmet, like fossil fuels. Fossil fuels have other aspects that can be used other then fuel.

But this is also a good idea for both russia and eu, as eu will get more gas from another source and this would force Russia to invest money in infrastructure and agricalture, two major aspects to make a rich country (infrastructure for r&d and development of new technologies, and agriculture is needed as people will always need food and with the increase in demographic in Asia, food will be in short supplies in the future.

Edit: not toxic but radioactive fumes in small doses are released. And anyway, eu would have to by uranium from deposits from other countrys, like Russia (go figure), austrailia, and Canada. So eithor or, eu will be stuck dealing with Russia for a long time in the energy sector. Heck, I see the eu, dealing with Russia I. Development for nuclar facilities.

[RIPTIDE]

You don't have the money to buy all the gas in the region. During the first six months of the global crisis, Russia lost 1/3 of its currency reserves ($200 billion - this was months ago, I don't know the current numbers).

Not to mention, there is now competition for that gas... And you want to control the supply by asking for discounts?
Its already decided a year ago.

[QUOTE]

Russia takes control of Turkmen (world?) gas
By M K Bhadrakumar

From the details coming out of Ashgabat in Turkmenistan and Moscow over the weekend, it is apparent that the great game over Caspian energy has taken a dramatic turn. In the geopolitics of energy security, nothing like this has happened before. The United States has suffered a huge defeat in the race for Caspian gas. The question now is how much longer Washington could afford to keep Iran out of the energy market.

Gazprom, Russia's energy leviathan, signed two major agreements in Ashgabat on Friday outlining a new scheme for purchase of Turkmen gas. The first one elaborates the price formation principles that will be guiding the Russian gas purchase from Turkmenistan during the next 20-year period. The second

[deli_dumrul]

Your article is dated 30 July 2008 and has no more relevance. Why don't you come back and post one after you are done with Turkmenistan first? It would be a good example for the Azeris regarding what type of a customer you are.

Btw, read your other post again:



The message from Baku says that Brussels and Washington need to support Nabucco more convincingly through investment commitments and by pulling their weight with Ankara.
Nabucco is so over. I will be back tomorrow with pictures from the signing ceremony.

[Russianlynxy]

Nabucco is so over. I will be back tomorrow with pictures from the signing ceremony.

Not over till it's over. NABUCCO (kinda annoying acronym btw) makes little sense without Iran. Why do you think western think tanks are making such a fuss over Iran and Ahmadinijad? Because they love the people of Iran and want to set them free? Absolutely not.

Iran is the only nation that has abundant access to the world's most resourceful region, the Caspian, and all the infrastructure to extract and process these resources. If Iran was still ruled by a CIA Shah, Nabucco would work out very well, maybe wouldn't even be needed. But that isn't the situation.

Also, one pipeline is not going to radically change Europe. There has already been a Baku-Ceyhan pipeline running from Azer. to a Turkish tanker port in Ceyhan. Didn't Change anything against the entire network of pipelines that run through Eastern Europe.

South Stream and Nord Stream are alot more perspective and several European nations are already willing to invest in these projects. Finland has already given permission to build Nord Stream, as their main concern was environmental. This will allow Russia to trade freely without having to deal with psychotic politics of the Ukraine.

Of course the most optimal solution for Russia would be deposing the idiots in charge of Ukraine's foreign policy.... this would solve alot of these resource issues.

Edit: Another huge problem for Nabucco is physical. The major portion of the Anatolian peninsula is mountainous, rolling, rocky terrain which will be very difficult and expensive to lay a pipeline through. But thats a whole other issue.

[BorisA]

from the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8147053.stm



Europe gas pipeline deal agreed


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46047000/jpg/_46047664_001935787-1.jpg The Nabucco line has no guaranteed supply of gas

Four European Union countries and Turkey have signed an agreement to construct the long-planned 3,300km Nabucco natural gas pipeline.
Once completed, the line will bring up to 31 billion cubic metres of gas a year from the Caspian and the Middle East across Turkey and into Europe.
It will give an important alternative energy supply to Russia, which already meets 30% of Europe's gas needs.
But much still remains to be agreed on, not least where the gas will come from.
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said deal was an "historic moment".
Long-running project
The five countries - Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and Austria - have been working on the Nabucco project with the European Commission for seven years now.

See Nabucco's planned route (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8147053.stm#map)
But Monday's decision to sign the deal has still come as a surprise, said the BBC's David O'Byrne in Ankara.
He said that Turkey and the European Commission were still at loggerheads over how much gas Turkey would be able to take from the pipeline.
Our correspondent also said that it remained uncertain which countries would supply gas to the Nabucco scheme.
Following the signing, Mr Erdogan said that the legal framework for the construction of the pipeline would now be agreed within six months.
"The more steps we take [on realising the project], the more the interest of supplier countries will grow," he said.
Supply issues
Azerbaijan will be the main source of Nabucco's gas when the pipeline is opened, due by 2014.
However, two weeks ago, the country agreed to sell some of its gas to Russia, a move many understood as a warning to the Nabucco partners to sort out their differences or look elsewhere.
Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Egypt are all considered potential suppliers to Nabucco in the longer term.
Meanwhile, Russia is planning two of its own new gas pipelines to Europe, the Nord Stream, which will run direct from Russia to Germany under the Baltic Sea, and the South Stream, which will run from southern Russia under the Black Sea to Bulgaria.
Well, the first step...now lets find the suppliers.

[Empulse]

I love western media :)



From their perspective it looks like Azerbaijan isn't an authoritarian state, gygygy :)

I also love Russian media, because there is little difference. Same can be said about Russian media and South Ossetia/Kosovo.

Ontopic: This Nabucco pipele can supply a mere volume of 32 bln. c.m. whereas the EUs total gas consumption equals an amount higher than 500 bln. c.m./year. Far from breaking the Russian stranglehold.

Glad to live in an European country that has the biggest European reserves behind Norway and Russia.

[Derbedeu]

Romania signs strategic partnership with Azerbaijan

Presidents Traian Basescu and Ilhan Aliyev talked about gas, oil routes.


President Traian Basescu has signed yesterday with his Azeri counterpart Ilham Aliyev a strategic partnership between the two countries, with its goals including energy cooperation on the Nabucco project, the Constanta-Trieste oil pipeline and the liquefied natural gas terminal in Constanta. ‘We have signed a strategic partnership along with five other Government documents, a strategic partnership that has several goals, namely: consolidating political dialogue, energy cooperation, economic and investment cooperation, security cooperation, cooperation within international organizations and cultural cooperation. The energy cooperation consists of the Nabucco project but also the PEOP project and the liquefied natural gas terminal in Constanta. The PEOP project is the Constanta-Trieste oil pipeline’ President Traian Basescu stated, being quoted by Mediafax.

He also pointed out that the members of the two delegations have also talked about regional issues. ‘A special subject consisted of frozen conflicts, and in what concerns Nagorno-Karabakh our position remains firm. Any frozen conflict of this kind can be solved only peacefully, within the existing international mechanisms and with respect for the territorial integrity of states, in accordance with international law,’ the Romanian Head of State concluded.

At the same time President Basescu also announced that Socar, Azerbaijan’s state-owned oil company, seeks to expand its activity in the EU through Romania, a project that can become a reality by hiking the oil storage capacity of the Constanta harbor.

In his turn, President of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev has stated that the declaration on the strategic partnership is only a consequence, a logical follow-up of the bilateral relation’s development. He stated that from a political point of view the relations between Romania and Azerbaijan are at the highest level. ‘In what concerns the economic level, we have very good projects such as those in the oil and natural gas sectors, projects that we will have to take advantage of in order to bring the economic relations at the highest level. Azerbaijan has very good oil and natural gas resources that can be successfully transported to European markets. If the transit agreements will be signed by a part of the countries involved, then the transportation of oil and natural gas to Europe will be done without problems,’ the Azeri President added.

In other developments, Eldar Hasanov, the Ambassador of Azerbaijan in Romania, has stated in an interview for ‘Ziua’ daily that his country is ready to supply natural gas for Nabucco and that the cooperation between our countries is getting deeper and stronger with each year that passes. ‘For Azerbaijan, Romania is also the country that offers us support for our integration in Euro-Atlantic structures from its position as NATO and EU member,’ the Azeri Ambassador added. In what concerns the Nabucco project, His Excellency Eldar Hasanov stated that Azerbaijan has significant natural gas reserves, is interested in this project and is ready to take part in it.


http://www.nineoclock.ro/index.php?page=detalii&categorie=homenews&id=20090928-11882

Good news for Europe! :)

[Flamming_Python]

You don't have the money to buy all the gas in the region. During the first six months of the global crisis, Russia lost 1/3 of its currency reserves ($200 billion - this was months ago, I don't know the current numbers).

Not to mention, there is now competition for that gas... And you want to control the supply by asking for discounts?

Well I don't know what's it got to do with you or Turkey actually :)

It's a deal between Russia and Turkmenistan. If the Turkmen aren't happy with our offer, so then we'll negotiate a different deal. If it turns out we can't reach a deal at all, then so be it. It's completely up to them, it's not as if Russia is holding a gun to their heads, and telling Turkmenistan which agreements to sign and who to sell gas to.

[Marcus Aurelius]

This is such a pointless discussion, Russia will be Europe's 'daddy' until the end of oil.
First of all, Nabucco will never have enough gas and even if it did, it would mean nothing, Russia/Gazprom could easily sabotage the project.
On the other hand, even if magically Nabucco goes online, it would also mean nothing. Europe's demand for energy is growing fast, by the time Nabucco will be constructed Russia will probably build couple of more pipelines into Europe, at the end Russia will supply even a higher % of gas to Europe.

By the way, any of you geniuses thought about what will happen if Russia decides to install puppets into those tiny countries? Overthrowing those unstable governments isn't that hard.......
Nabucco project is simply laughable.

[Derbedeu]

This is such a pointless discussion, Russia will be Europe's 'daddy' until the end of oil.
First of all, Nabucco will never have enough gas and even if it did, it would mean nothing, Russia/Gazprom could easily sabotage the project.
On the other hand, even if magically Nabucco goes online, it would also mean nothing. Europe's demand for energy is growing fast, by the time Nabucco will be constructed Russia will probably build couple of more pipelines into Europe, at the end Russia will supply even a higher % of gas to Europe.

By the way, any of you geniuses thought about what will happen if Russia decides to install puppets into those tiny countries? Overthrowing those unstable governments isn't that hard.......
Nabucco project is simply laughable.

Actually, your whole analysis is laughable. But judging from your post history, I'm not surprised.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Actually, your whole analysis is laughable. But judging from your post history, I'm not surprised.
Whooooooooooooosh...rofl

[BorisA]

Russia will be Europe's 'daddy' until the end of oil.

Uhh i just love the comments of the russia strong faction...
right now i am just waiting that he starts to explain why the West actually lost the Cold War and not the Russkies....

[Marcus Aurelius]

You're right, little Nabucco will have enough to supply Europe with gas for the next 100 years and save them from the evil Russkies as well, how could i have missed that...rofl

/Sarcasm off

[Azatavrear]

This is such a pointless discussion, Russia will be Europe's 'daddy' until the end of oil.
First of all, Nabucco will never have enough gas and even if it did, it would mean nothing, Russia/Gazprom could easily sabotage the project.
On the other hand, even if magically Nabucco goes online, it would also mean nothing. Europe's demand for energy is growing fast, by the time Nabucco will be constructed Russia will probably build couple of more pipelines into Europe, at the end Russia will supply even a higher % of gas to Europe.

By the way, any of you geniuses thought about what will happen if Russia decides to install puppets into those tiny countries? Overthrowing those unstable governments isn't that hard.......
Nabucco project is simply laughable.


That would only succeed if Russia worked in the mutual benefit of their true ally in the Caucasus, currently under distress and fully defensive.