75th Rangers will take SCAR to war [Archive]

Soldat_Américain

05-12-2009, 09:28 PM

75th Rangers will take SCAR to war

By Matthew Cox (mcox@atpco.com?subject=Question%20from%20ArmyTimes.com%20reader) - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday May 12, 2009 11:01:33 EDT
About 600 members of the 75th Ranger Regiment will soon take the Special Operations Combat Assault Rifle into battle.
The 600 SCARs are the first of 1,800 that U.S. Special Operations Command began fielding in early April, SOCom spokeswoman Air Force Maj. Denise Boyd told Army Times.
SOCom chose the SCAR system — which consists of the 5.56mm MK16 and the 7.62mm MK17 — to replace weapons including the 5.56mm M4A1 carbine, made by Colt Defense LLC.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/05/army_scar_051109w/

So does this mean the SCAR could end up being our assault rifle replacement?

Wake27

05-12-2009, 09:31 PM

I hope not, I don't like it. Not that I've had any use. HK416 and 417 would be much better I think.

Eknytz

05-12-2009, 09:38 PM

I don't think it will become standard.
The Navy Seals used the Stoner 63 throughout the Vietnam war and now most of those rifles have been turned to scrap.

I can't think of a name

05-12-2009, 10:18 PM

Better not, I don't like it. Not that I've had any use. HK416 and 417 would be much better I think.

:roll: because you know better than the professionals? Please elaborate why you think it is not a good idea?

deagle

05-12-2009, 10:21 PM

its just another alternative option. if d3lta's not using them, and that doesnt mean anything much.

Gerry301

05-12-2009, 11:22 PM

its just another alternative option. if d3lta's not using them, and that doesnt mean anything much.

Delta has a completely different mission objective than the Army Rangers or many SFs.

Sloppy Joe2

05-12-2009, 11:37 PM

Delta has a completely different mission objective than the Army Rangers or many SFs. pretty sure he was being sarcastic buddy

chefjavier

05-12-2009, 11:46 PM

Its essential to have a assault rifle that would work for in all conditions of terrain and weather. I hope it doesn't happend like the M-16 when it first introduced in Vietnam.

T for Tetrapod

05-13-2009, 12:59 AM

^^^Damn, you don't get anymore face palm than in that picture.

Anyways, back on topic, cool news. Looking forward to hearing how they perform in the field.

mhpr262

05-13-2009, 01:57 AM

Still, I´ve got to say, beautiful is sth. else...:)
That frontsight looks like it is just begging to get caught in any loops and straps hanging from you other equipment or to bang into door frames or the like.

I can´t remember having seen the SCAR in any differerent colour than that desert tan. Are there any different versions out there at all?
Quite obvious what the top brass think is going to be the main troublespot for the US armed forces for the next couple of decades :)

Bro Jangles

05-13-2009, 01:59 AM

the prototype was black

shuredgefan

05-13-2009, 04:34 AM

That frontsight looks like it is just begging to get caught in any loops and straps hanging from you other equipment or to bang into door frames or the like.
I imagine the front sights will spend most of their time folded flat given the plethora of glass sights used these days.

kuttless

05-13-2009, 04:44 AM

I imagine the front sights will spend most of their time folded flat given the plethora of glass sights used these days.

Yea thats true.

Hey Wake chill man. Its the internet.

mhpr262

05-13-2009, 05:18 AM

I imagine the front sights will spend most of their time folded flat given the plethora of glass sights used these days.

True that.

I didn´t know it was foldable.

James

05-13-2009, 07:47 AM

Better not, I don't like it. Not that I've had any use.

:cantbeli: Please don't post in this thread anymore.

Soldat_Américain

05-13-2009, 07:51 AM

James what's your take on the weapon?

MidwestSpecial

05-13-2009, 08:40 AM

I'm no gun expert and have no military/combat experience but my local gunshop just got one in that they are raffling off. Half the gun feels plastic (is it supposed to be polymer?). I'm just not sure about the folding stock either. It didn't fold back straight very easily. I feel if there was any amount of dirty or grime were the joint meets that it going to be a pain in the as*, not to mention it looks like a door hinge. It definently light though and very well balanced. The gun was priced at $4,200 for the civvy version.

shuredgefan

05-13-2009, 08:49 AM

True that.

I didn´t know it was foldable.

I don't know for a fact that it is, but if you zoom-in on this pic (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/FN_SCAR-L_%28Standard%29.jpg) it sure looks like it folds.

The Dane

05-13-2009, 09:09 AM

LOL.. funny tread.. Welcome to MP.NET!! :D

Good for 75th Rangers! It's a better weapon than M16/M4 for sure!

Soldat_Américain

05-13-2009, 10:09 AM

Alpha-17

05-13-2009, 10:57 AM

Well, only fondled, I mean, held a SCAR once (it was the civie version), but I was impressed by how sturdy the thing felt. Not bad in weight, but stronger feeling than the butt stock on an M4. Hopefully we'll be hearing good things about the rifle from the Rangers, and hopefully USSOCOM will talk to USASOC, who'll talk to Big Army, and we all can get a good rifle.

cbreedon

05-13-2009, 11:49 AM

I am a Johnny Come Late to this thread and I'll admit I have done little research about the SCAR. What are the differences between it and say a piston AR like the 416? What advantages does it have? Just curious and trying to steer this thread back to sensability.

DPMSAR15

05-13-2009, 03:58 PM

Way to hijack Soldat's thread guys, very mature of you. Hopefully some temporary bans up side you heads will put some sense in to you.
As for the SCAR, which was supposed to be the subject of the thread, I wanna get my hands on the civilian model ASAP. With the current gun run though they can't even begin to guess when we will see them this far West. Hopefully they will also have a prince 50 mag lock or bullet button kit for them for us in California. I don't know if the standard AR lock kits will transition over or not.

James

05-13-2009, 04:48 PM

James what's your take on the weapon?

I've never handled or shot one, so I have no opinion. I think the M4/M16 family is fine, but if this makes our Rangers more deadly, I support its use.

I relations to firearms in general, I think people often get too wrapped up in having the controls of one rifle (i.e. M4) be exactly like another (HK416). It's just not that big a deal. Anyone with half a brain can be taught to use something different in short order. A Ranger already knows how to use an M9, M4, Mk. 46, M240, M2, Mk.19, At-4, M203, and M79 (there are probably others in there as well). I don't think adding the SCAR is much to worry about.

Maybe BrianT will add his take - he's actually a 1st Batt guy who's seen these up close, unlike the vast majority of us.

mhpr262

05-13-2009, 05:27 PM

I imagine being able to use the big 7.62x51mm round will be quite an advantage in Afghanistan. I read in a German forum that the soldiers of the Bundeswehr have been begging the top brass to let them use G3s, as there are still ten thousands of them in storage all over Germany ---> no way.

Lasse

05-13-2009, 05:31 PM

Atleast a couple of 7,62s in every team would be good for that extra reach. Semi DMR roles.

len173

05-13-2009, 06:10 PM

So can someone explain the advantages of the SCAR, over the M16/M4 family, specific to rangers tasks? (or any other units using it).

xav

05-13-2009, 06:21 PM

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9733/numero21891225391730zs3.jpg

French DGSE (CIA) use them, but I haven't read that magazine so i don't know how they like it.

I read however that French SF reviewed both Scar and HK416 and liked the HK better.

edit:
However Scar strong points are:
- The different modules/kits you can add or remove
- Resistance to sand, dust, overal reliability in bad conditions.

*zeven*

05-13-2009, 06:23 PM

Sorry might be off topic. but
I hope to see some KRISS soon. thats the future!!

Soldat_Américain

05-13-2009, 06:49 PM

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9733/numero21891225391730zs3.jpg
I read however that French SF reviewed both Scar and HK416 and liked the HK better.

It would be in RAIDS, what issue is that?

Drain-O

05-13-2009, 07:15 PM

Honestly I started this thread to get opinions on SCAR from people that are familiar withe the rifle...because lord knows I won't be getting my hands on one anytime soon. This retarded **** needs to stop, children need to hit the school books, get off the internet and go play some baseball or football. It's spring man.
You could see what the guys over at Quiet Professionals have to say about it. From what I've read FN didn't let them have much time with the weapon, and those who have tried it didn't have any compliments for it aside from the cheek weld.

Soldat_Américain

05-13-2009, 07:19 PM

Where's BrianT when you need him...I'll take a look at that thanks for the suggestion

Bro Jangles

05-13-2009, 07:48 PM

what is this, post random pictures of guns not in use day?

Soldat_Américain

05-13-2009, 07:55 PM

The KRISS is not relevant to this topic...still waiting for an expert to help me out...but I can wait, retarded photos of weapons not used makes me wonder why I don't get drunk every night like the kids down the hall.

kuttless

05-13-2009, 08:16 PM

I agree man. Fashion over Function, I say. That HK416 goes with ANY outfit. You can't put a price on FABULOUS!

Pure Win! Welcome brother.

BrianT

05-13-2009, 10:40 PM

What do you want to know about it? We've broken a few buttstocks, so those probably need to be made more reliable. My major complaint is the charging handle. The weapon is so skinny, your optic extends over the side and when you charge the weapon you always end up catching the edge of your EOTECH. The other thing is I wish they made the receiver itself longer and extend pass the gas block/piston. I have long arms so I like to reach up real far. Plus I don't like vertical grips, so you end up grabbing around your taclight instead of being able to mount it up further on the weapon and it not getting in your way. It's almost like they built the weapon around the ideal of using a vertical grip in mind. The trigger ergonomics are very similar to a M4, and they updated the selector switch to function like a M4. It use to have 45 degree clicks, but now it has 90 degree clicks. It's fully ambidextrious and the buttstock folds, which is nice for riding around in vehicles or putting in a 1950. The flash surpressor pretty much eliminates all flash, and I like the way the sound surpressor screws on over the KAC system. And yeah the front sight folds down. Oh and some guys stripped the screws installing barrels. Apparently its a problem FN knows about. That whole system seems a bit finnicky for military use with having to use a torque wrench and such.

Bro Jangles

05-13-2009, 11:08 PM

Have you gotten any use with the FN grenade Launcher?

carolvs

05-14-2009, 12:00 AM

So does this mean the SCAR could end up being our assault rifle replacement?

It is too expensive and complicated for Big Army IMO. A simplified and less expensive version might appeal the USMC, if they like the FN entry to the IAR competition.

Soldat_Américain

05-14-2009, 12:33 AM

BrianT

05-14-2009, 12:51 AM

Have you gotten any use with the FN grenade Launcher?
Yeah it's badass. Without a doubt I'd take it over the 203.

As far as finnicky, I mean it isn't dummy proof. I mean you have to use a torque wrench to install barrels and the screws have to be screwed in a certain order.

Do you mean reliability in it's ability to shoot? It's a gas piston weapon that's been in development for years. It does pretty good on that front. But I've taken my M4 to the range and shot hundreds of rounds without a malfunction. It does stay much cleaner though.

SilentType

05-14-2009, 12:53 AM

Good. It will not only provide a more dependable infantry rifle than the current Colt M4 that had 3.8 times as many failures as the FNH MK16 SCAR it will also reduce their logistical footprint because of the large percentage of parts shared between both the MK16 and MK17.

Every weapon system has to be fielded for a first time. The SCAR program though has been over a period of years and has involved some of the most riggid environmental testing and periodic reviews by very well qualified people in both the military and private sector. The SCAR has been redesigned having been brought into a number of different generations until it reached the final product the Rangers will carry to Iraq. This has been one of the smartest procurement programs ever run and the folks involved are all aware of past mistakes in other programs and know exactly what is at stake for the individual that must carry it into battle.

I expect its first deployment to be exceptional and I fully expect it to be very well received. I'm certain however that things will be brought to FNH's attention in only the way that can happen once you have the mass deployment of a new weapon system. That will be a GOOD thing and the folks at FNH will review every critical complaint and address it if it is deemed valid (ie not a "I like my M4 this is a piece" complaint).

Bro Jangles

05-14-2009, 12:53 AM

Yeah it's badass. Without a doubt I'd take it over the 203.
in your opinion better than the M320?

Yarrick2

05-14-2009, 12:57 AM

The flash surpressor pretty much eliminates all flash, and I like the way the sound surpressor screws on over the KAC system. AAC does great work. How do you feel about the "front towards enemy" engraving?

BrianT

05-14-2009, 12:59 AM

I haven't used the 320. Having just googled the M320, they seem similar in that it's double-action, attaches with a rail system, the breech canters to the side, and it can be used stand alone.

Wake27

05-14-2009, 01:34 AM

I've never handled or shot one, so I have no opinion. I think the M4/M16 family is fine, but if this makes our Rangers more deadly, I support its use.

I relations to firearms in general, I think people often get too wrapped up in having the controls of one rifle (i.e. M4) be exactly like another (HK416). It's just not that big a deal. Anyone with half a brain can be taught to use something different in short order. A Ranger already knows how to use an M9, M4, Mk. 46, M240, M2, Mk.19, At-4, M203, and M79 (there are probably others in there as well). I don't think adding the SCAR is much to worry about.

Maybe BrianT will add his take - he's actually a 1st Batt guy who's seen these up close, unlike the vast majority of us.

Good. It will not only provide a more dependable infantry rifle than the current Colt M4 that had 3.8 times as many failures as the FNH MK16 SCAR it will also reduce their logistical footprint because of the large percentage of parts shared between both the MK16 and MK17.

The 416/17 system would have even less I would think, right? And yeah I'm sure the Rangers could handle learning about it very well, but it could only help if the current system and the new system were at least similar. Obviously though that wouldn't take precedence over reliability or anything.

ebk187

05-14-2009, 01:56 AM

What's the price we pay in comparison, SCAR MK16 vs HK416/unit?

Wake27

05-14-2009, 02:59 AM

What's the price we pay in comparison, SCAR MK16 vs HK416/unit?

That's a good question. Either way, I think its pretty exciting in the military designates a new rifle.

Sand Man

05-14-2009, 07:20 AM

Not really a pic of Rangers but someone said this is the first time the SCAR is seen in use other than during field testings...

http://i41.tinypic.com/2uoro8h.jpg

(NAVY PHOTO) SEAL BEACH NAVAL WEAPONS STATION, Calif. (April 15, 2009) Special warfare combatant-craft crewmen (SWCC) assigned to Special Boat Team (SBT) 12 conduct an equipment check before getting underway for a training exercise at Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Joshua T. Rodriguez.

Edit:

Further reading would reveal that:

...

In a bland release from the company's PA shop, FN says fielding will continue through the winter of 2009. A source close to the program tells me so far the Rangers have gotten their new rifles, with Navy Special Warfare Combatant-Craft Crewmen and SEAL teams 1, 2 and 3 getting theirs through this month and the Army Special Forces operators slinging theirs "shortly."

So that brings us to point #2...if the SWCCs haven't gotten their SCARs fully fielded yet, then what gives on the photo I posted a couple days ago that supposedly shows two SWCCs with SCARs slung across their shoulders?

Well, that same source tells me based on his analysis of the fielding dates, location of the photo and date of the shoot, "it doesn't add up." He claims that a company called Independent Studio Services manufactures look-alike SCARs that the SOCOM buys for training purposes.

...

Source (http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004844.html)

thanamestolga

05-14-2009, 07:39 AM

Soldat_Américain

05-14-2009, 08:03 AM

Wow, very good news, looking forward to seeing some more pics of this rifle :D

And which variant are they being issued the 5.56 SCAR-L or the 7.62 SCAR-H?

IMO the 7.62 would be much better off, seeing as though alot of soldiers complain about the 5.56...
From what I read and listened to on Army times it's going to be a mix, I would suspect a majority will be SCAR-L, changing to a heavy seems very easy, all you're doing is replacing the rigid barrel assembly where as the bolt remains the same.

thanamestolga

05-14-2009, 09:15 AM

From what I read and listened to on Army times it's going to be a mix, I would suspect a majority will be SCAR-L, changing to a heavy seems very easy, all you're doing is replacing the rigid barrel assembly where as the bolt remains the same.

SCAR-L is a fine variant too, the 7.62 is only my opinion seeing as though im more used to it :D

Soldat_Américain

05-14-2009, 09:31 AM

SCAR-L is a fine variant too, the 7.62 is only my opinion seeing as though im more used to it :D
Ah hah!:bash:

lightfire

05-14-2009, 10:18 AM

What's with the "7.62 iz beta zan 5,56" posters in this thread? School's is closed already or smth?

little icebear

05-15-2009, 09:21 AM

Some of you are debating this topic as if it was some quantum leap. Guys - it´s just another rifle in 5.56 respectively 7.62.
I assume the SCAR will do the job just fine.

If it had been up to me, I would have opted for the 416 over the SCAR. And that´s just for two rather emotional reasons - I like the ergonomics of AR 15 style rifles and I´m German, so I would have liked to see the HK product make it.

Mr. Niceguy

05-30-2009, 02:21 PM

So the military finally starting putting the FN SCAR in the hands of the troops. If you are not privy to this information, here’s a link (http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/05/army_scar_051109w/). Based on what I have read the Rangers will be the first ones to carry the SCAR on a large scale. What units in USSOCOM are going to be getting the SCAR? Obviously the Rangers will be using it, I assume the SEALs will as well. The reason I ask is I have read some things online regarding SOF personnel finding alternatives to the M4 on their own time…for example I remember reading something about some SF guys in based in Okinawa ordering up some HK 416 uppers to replace their M4s because they were not satisfied with them, and as far as I know Delta is still using the HK416 and has been for a few years now. Will every single unit under SOCOM now be fielding the SCAR as their standard duty rifle(meaning SOCOM will be doing away with the M4/416s/etc), or will some units still be able to carry other weapons based on their preferences like the SF gentlemen in Okinawa and Delta guys?

If this is a repost, many apologies; I perused the forums for a while and didn’t get an answer to this question so I figured I would just ask flat out.
Also, if anyone has any pics of SCARs being used on deployment, feel free to post.

Soldat_Américain

05-30-2009, 02:36 PM

Yes a repost...if you had search the title of the article it might have come up.
Try here:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157086

Mr. Niceguy

05-30-2009, 02:49 PM

many thanks, Soldat

James

05-30-2009, 03:23 PM

One of our members is in 1st Batt. He told us about this a while ago.

Mr. Niceguy

05-30-2009, 03:53 PM

yea i followed the link Soldat gave me...good stuff

Cirap

05-30-2009, 04:40 PM

SEAL Teams had them, but apparently they were sent back to FN to be upgraded to Mk 16/17 Mod 1's before actually getting deployed down range

Think I read it in one of SMGLee's posts, but I'm too lazy to look for it

MaverickCowboy

05-30-2009, 04:57 PM

So it like the military using both HK416's and SCARS?

Bro Jangles

05-30-2009, 04:59 PM

So it like the military using both HK416's and SCARS?
No one has adopted the 416 in large numbers.

Cirap

05-30-2009, 05:05 PM

good, I guess. It's been in the pipeline since when? 2004? If it was a sucky weapon it wouldn't make it this far

and since two platforms can replace like 5 others they should see (long term) financial benefits, not to mention better logistics with spare parts

MaverickCowboy

05-30-2009, 05:31 PM

No one has adopted the 416 in large numbers.

is the SCAR cheaper? or is the 416 a bad weapon?

AroundTheCorner

05-30-2009, 05:38 PM

is the SCAR cheaper? or is the 416 a bad weapon?

The 416 is heavier the the SCAR, just for the info. :)

MaverickCowboy

05-30-2009, 05:40 PM

The 416 is heavier the the SCAR, just for the info. :)

aside from weight. hows the ammunition delivery one target for both? compared to a regular gas M4, would the piston take away from accuracy?

Soldat_Américain

05-30-2009, 05:59 PM

afaik both 416&417 and the SCAR-H&L were/are used at op theatres by those high-end ops who can and will choose the tools for their downrange stuff.

maybe scar is first to xperience a larger fielding. its not exclude 416&7 from further, even grand-scale sales in the near future

cheers

Well as stated in the article, 600 Rangers in the 75th are being equipped with the SCAR, SOC ordered 1,800. And I think this field test is gonna be good. I think we have a good weapon here, although I have not personally been anywhere near the thing.

khukuri

05-30-2009, 06:05 PM

No one has adopted the 416 in large numbers.
#

Turkey might soon I read somewhere, FYI

Bro Jangles

05-30-2009, 06:10 PM

#

Turkey might soon I read somewhere, FYI
I meant in the US military. Norway, France, UK, and turkey are using the 416 or 417.

Soldat_Américain

05-30-2009, 06:16 PM

I meant in the US military. Norway, France, UK, and turkey are using the 416 or 417.
Dude shhh...don't ruin our chances at getting something good with the SCAR...if you keep talking I might still have an M-4 in ten years...that may happen anyways though.

Sayeret

05-31-2009, 08:24 AM

This isn't exactly about the SCAR but it's somewhat related. There were some FBI HRT guys who were sent to Afghanistan with HK 416s and heavily modified Springfield 1911s. The HK 416s ended up having a lot of problems and the Springfield 1911s ended up jamming. So the HRT guys went back to their M4s and Glocks. I'm not exactly sure what problems the HK 416s, but I thought it was interesting story.

LRPV

05-31-2009, 08:32 AM

Sayeret

05-31-2009, 08:34 AM

So in these units that are going to be using the SCAR is the MK 17 supposed to replace the M-14 and MK 11 and the MK 16 will replace the M4, MK 12, and MK 18?

Cirap

05-31-2009, 09:06 AM

So in these units that are going to be using the SCAR is the MK 17 supposed to replace the M-14 and MK 11 and the MK 16 will replace the M4, MK 12, and MK 18?

that's the point. but realistically I can see a lot of those weapons still in the armory room "just in case"

Sayeret

05-31-2009, 12:24 PM

Heard at a bar...? You're hurting both 416 and 1911 crowds in one post..:)

lol, no it was from a police officer who'd work with some people from HRT.

Soldat_Américain

05-31-2009, 12:30 PM

Heard at a bar...? You're hurting both 416 and 1911 crowds in one post..:)
Hey things you hear from guys when they're drunk most often is the truth...some type of confession I forget...was in the course when I took AP Psych.

lol, no it was from a police officer who'd work with some people from HRT.

So it's one of your drinkin' buddies.

BrianT do you have any new info?

Pappy

05-31-2009, 12:50 PM

No one has adopted the 416 in large numbers.

Exactly. AWG had procured some 416s, but they were ordered to return them.

Sayeret

05-31-2009, 12:52 PM

Hey things you hear from guys when they're drunk most often is the truth...some type of confession I forget...was in the course when I took AP Psych.

I think the 1911 is a very good weapon and thus the reason for all the handguns based off it's design. I have no experience with HK 416s but if it's as close to the M4 as I hear, then I think it's a good weapon as well.

My point with the story wasn't to try to say one weapon is better than any other. I'm not sure what the problems with the HK 416s were, it might been something defective with those particular ones, who knows. I just thought it was worth mentioning.

So it's one of your drinkin' buddies.

lol, nope.

He219

05-31-2009, 10:22 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/mpnet/090524-A-6095H-515.jpg
Hires (http://news.soc.mil/releases/News%20Archive/2009/May/090524-A-6095H-515.jpg)

Using the fast-rope infiltration system, Soldiers from 7th Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg NC, and Rangers from 1st Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, G.A. descend from MH-60 Black Hawk helicopters from the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment hovering over the infield of Lowes Motorspeed Speedway in Corcord N.C. during the Coca Cola 600 NASCAR pre-race military appreciation show on May 24, 2009. (U.S. Army photo by Trish Harris, USASOC News Service)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/mpnet/090524-A-6095H-730.jpg
Hires (http://news.soc.mil/releases/News%20Archive/2009/May/090524-A-6095H-730.jpg)

Rangers from 1st Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, G.A. stand at attention on the infield of the Lowes Motor Speedway as they are honored for their service to the nation during the Coca Cola 600 NASCAR pre-race military appreciation show in Concord, N.C. on May 24, 2009. (U.S. Army photo by Trish Harris, USASOC News Service)

Bro Jangles

05-31-2009, 11:37 PM

Coincidence?

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/bravo-juliet/scarhf.jpg

PG18

06-01-2009, 12:11 AM

Coincidence?

good eye BJ..p-)

goat89

06-01-2009, 12:16 AM

Coincidence?

I just... I... wow, u sharp eyed bugger. ><

Mikebla

06-04-2009, 01:27 AM

I would most definitely enjoying test firing one of these when they become available to civilians. I wonder what the price tag will be - unless they are already available, I haven't heard anything.

On another note, I don't know how fantastic that tan is, I still prefer black.

Yarrick2

06-04-2009, 01:35 AM

they are available, just not in any numbers. MSRP is ~$1500 one local shop is selling theirs for $8000. ah, supply and demand it's annoying at times.

Alpha-17

06-04-2009, 08:20 AM

they are available, just not in any numbers. MSRP is ~$1500 one local shop is selling theirs for $8000. ah, supply and demand it's annoying at times.

I saw one for $10,000. I'd love to pick up a H if they ever drop down to a half way reasonable price.

Yarrick2

06-04-2009, 09:12 AM

well they are going for 3k on gunbroker, so if you shop around you can find them for a "decent" price.

James

06-04-2009, 10:07 AM

I can't see myself spending $3000 on a semi auto, 5.56mm rifle.

alexishere2007

06-04-2009, 10:15 AM

piston gas systems are overrated. DI AR-15 imo is all you need

carolvs

06-04-2009, 11:28 PM

MSRP for the SCAR 16s is $2696.56 (per the FN forum)

SOCOM is paying about $2500 each (per a SCAR article in Guns & Ammo).

Mikebla

06-04-2009, 11:45 PM

MSRP for the SCAR 16s is $2696.56 (per the FN forum)

SOCOM is paying about $2500 each (per a SCAR article in Guns & Ammo).

Eek that is a hefty price tag, I guess I'll just wait a while until prices come down or someone sells one used or something. I could buy 2 ARs for that price.

Bro Jangles

06-04-2009, 11:51 PM

Eek that is a hefty price tag, I guess I'll just wait a while until prices come down or someone sells one used or something. I could buy 2 ARs for that price.
2 great ARs, 1250 is alot to pay for a AR outa the Box. although ive ended up spending more than that on mine.

Mikebla

06-04-2009, 11:53 PM

2 great ARs, 1250 is alot to pay for a AR outa the Box. although ive ended up spending more than that on mine.

Exactly my point, or better yet 1 amazing AR with all the fancy gizmos and optics that a rail system would allow.

Bro Jangles

06-04-2009, 11:53 PM

Exactly my point, or better yet 1 amazing AR with all the fancy gizmos and optics that a rail system would allow.
or 40 mosin nagants.

RECON DOC

06-04-2009, 11:56 PM

I heard the SCAR is a piece of junk and the only reason it made it into the system is because of a general that's into airsoft thinks it looks cool.

Cstafford

06-05-2009, 12:00 AM

MSRP for the SCAR 16s is $2696.56 (per the FN forum)

SOCOM is paying about $2500 each (per a SCAR article in Guns & Ammo).
Wow what a discount

Albatross

06-05-2009, 12:00 AM

nothing wrong with the AR system.

Mikebla

06-05-2009, 12:01 AM

I heard the SCAR is a piece of junk and the only reason it made it into the system is because of a general that's into airsoft thinks it looks cool.

Well that might be so but I'm not currently qualified to determine it's quality either way.

I'd like to see someone who has had real-world experience take an objective approach to reviewing it's qualities. Only then might we draw our conclusions. All I've seen is FN praising it in their videos, which is of course in their best interest for marketing.

RECON DOC

06-05-2009, 12:07 AM

Well that might be so but I'm not currently qualified to determine it's quality either way.

I'd like to see someone who has had real-world experience take an objective approach to reviewing it's qualities. Only then might we draw our conclusions. All I've seen is FN praising it in their videos, which is of course in their best interest for marketing.

It's true, I read it in Army Times. Everybody knows FN is crap.

Mikebla

06-05-2009, 12:10 AM

It's true, I read it in Army Times. Everybody knows FN is crap.

Great, I'll definitely look up that article. I'm interested to know what they said.

Seraphim

06-05-2009, 12:22 AM

rofl

123467890

Fireball Sanchez

06-05-2009, 12:28 AM

SilentType

06-05-2009, 12:31 AM

Sand Man

06-05-2009, 12:46 AM

I'd like to see someone who has had real-world experience take an objective approach to reviewing it's qualities. Only then might we draw our conclusions....

Why don't you PM BrianT? He started a thread about it (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133302) ...

.

Bro Jangles

06-05-2009, 12:49 AM

It's true, I read it in Army Times. Everybody knows FN is crap.
yeah, good thing they dont make half of the US's M16s.

RECON DOC

06-05-2009, 12:53 AM

yeah, good thing they dont make half of the US's M16s.

Whew!! No kidding!!

Soldat_Américain

06-05-2009, 03:44 AM

You know, somewhere over on BARF.COM someone actually posted a review....Here. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=280622&page=1)

But it is barfcom, so there is a lot retard floating around, but it is a good review from someone who, it's assumed, has been issued these rifles.
I just read the review, it appears to be very comprehensive...I think the guy would like the weapon after further use though, it's interesting that they took out the barrel instead of just having a different barrel assembly ready to go, but that was probably the point as it seemed it was familiarization as he said at this point he won't get to use it after the said testing.

SMGLee

06-05-2009, 01:46 PM

The report is very well written, and the person made some good points, the charging handle is a problem experienced by a lot of the operators testing the weapons...

As far as the SCAR is concern, it is a very well thought out system and a much better candidate for the carbine program than anything else on the market..

few problems still exist, but FN is working to resolve those as we speak.

BrianT

06-05-2009, 02:26 PM

That review is pretty on point. Seems shooter's issues with the weapon is pretty universal.

Mikebla

06-05-2009, 02:44 PM

I just read the review, it appears to be very comprehensive...I think the guy would like the weapon after further use though, it's interesting that they took out the barrel instead of just having a different barrel assembly ready to go, but that was probably the point as it seemed it was familiarization as he said at this point he won't get to use it after the said testing.

I just read the review as well, and I agree, it is indeed very comprehensive. A few things I noticed that he pointed out, which caught my eye, was the rail and the close proximity to the reciprocating charging handle - makes for a tight squeeze using optics like the EOtechs. Also, some guys like to put their thumb up around the front of the weapon to hold it steady, but the charging handle interferes with that painfully.

Next step is to just wait for it to come back after a tour, see how the plastic stood up to the wear and tear. I think that's one of the biggest questions in the minds of those who these were issued to.

Soldat_Américain

06-05-2009, 02:48 PM

I just read the review as well, and I agree, it is indeed very comprehensive. A few things I noticed that he pointed out, which caught my eye, was the rail and the close proximity to the reciprocating charging handle - makes for a tight squeeze using optics like the EOtechs. Also, some guys like to put their thumb up around the front of the weapon to hold it steady, but the charging handle interferes with that painfully.

Next step is to just wait for it to come back after a tour, see how the plastic stood up to the wear and tear. I think that's one of the biggest questions in the minds of those who these were issued to.
Well the G36 is as plastic as it gets and it seems to be doing just right by the germans.

a question for Chen...what does not having a buffer spring do to the recoil?

AC434

06-05-2009, 03:43 PM

Doesn't FN make all of the M16A4's, M249's, M240's, and M2's for the US - yeah they're a crappy company.....

Bro Jangles

06-05-2009, 03:47 PM

Doesn't FN make all of the M16A4's, M249's, M240's, and M2's for the US - yeah they're a crappy company.....
Only thing good from Belgium is Waffles.

Soldat_Américain

06-05-2009, 04:14 PM

Only thing good from Belgium is Waffles.
That's why they're made in South Carolina:)

trunk_munkey28

06-05-2009, 04:24 PM

That's why they're made in South Carolina:)

Your that guy at the bar who misses all the innuendo in a conversation, makes a comment, and causes an awkward moment of silence, aren't you?

Soldat_Américain

06-05-2009, 04:27 PM

Your that guy at the bar who misses all the innuendo in a conversation, makes a comment, and causes an awkward moment of silence, aren't you?
I can be...I was having a laugh but it seemed someone else was getting their panties in a bunch.

Laworkerbee

06-05-2009, 04:29 PM

Your that guy at the bar who misses all the innuendo in a conversation, makes a comment, and causes an awkward moment of silence, aren't you?

Classic!!!

SilentType

06-05-2009, 11:58 PM

The complaints about the reciprocating charging handle need to be taken to SOCOM not FNH. SOCOM is the one that directed the SCAR have it.

Bro Jangles

06-06-2009, 12:26 AM

The complaints about the reciprocating charging handle need to be taken to SOCOM not FNH. SOCOM is the one that directed the SCAR have it.
is it the fact that it Reciprocates, or is it that it is Ambidextrous? Guns with Recipricating charging handles are not knew, Famous/World class firearms (not going to say the K word) use it, with out issue.

Mikebla

06-06-2009, 01:08 AM

is it the fact that it Reciprocates, or is it that it is Ambidextrous? Guns with Recipricating charging handles are not knew, Famous/World class firearms (not going to say the K word) use it, with out issue.

You have a point there, however it should be noted that the position of the handle - or rather, the design of it, seems to interfere with some shooting hand positions. Nothing a little habbit-breaking practice cant undo eventually. Also, it's close proximity to the top rail mount - which probably should be fixed.

But really, in conclusion, it's just a different weapon system with some similarities to what those issued are used to, such as the M4 and M16. All it will take is a bit of trigger time with the weapon before it starts to become more natural. I think that the real issues with it will appear after some hard field use.

bullpuppy

06-06-2009, 02:42 PM

I heard the SCAR is a piece of junk and the only reason it made it into the system is because of a general that's into airsoft thinks it looks cool.

Source?

Compare it to this:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_carbine_dusttest_071217/

Which looked at stoppages in a dust test:

• XM8: 127 stoppages.
• MK16 SCAR Light: 226 stoppages.
• 416: 233 stoppages.
• M4: 882 stoppages.

And the M4 had nearly 4 times the number of stoppages as the SCAR.

Soldat_Américain

06-06-2009, 02:48 PM

calm down newbie...that remark is tongue in cheek.
Why hasn't Mack done a piece on the SCAR, but seemed like he hard on for the Masada, but then again he presents every weapon like that.
Here's the video that was on ArmyTimes.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_V2wvk2F6A

crazyman

06-06-2009, 09:58 PM

I got to handle (but not shoot) a civie version of the SCAR-L today, here are my thoughts

1; very simple ergonomics. It looked and felt like someone tried hard to avoid doing anything to it for looks, just functionality, which brings me to....

2; functionality. As a lefty I've always had issues here with the M4, so I was very happy to handle a weapon where I didnt have to come up with a quick fix solution to how I operated the weapon. I could do everything I needed without ever moving more than a finger of my shooting hand. No moving my thumb over the back of the grip, nothing.

Overall I liked the way the weapon felt, weight/distribution-wise, the stock feels a lot better (and the adjustments on the stock are in much smaller increments) and I felt that it was a very natural weapon to aim (did some quick reflexive fire drills, dry). Bolt was a bit stiff, but it was right out of the box so that was no surprise.

Unfortunately I couldn't shoot it, but what can you do? on the plus side I did shoot about a dozen different handguns, first time I've shot since october in Diyala, great fun was had

kraut783

06-07-2009, 09:17 AM

I liked how you can break it apart and make a stand alone M203 only out of it....time will tell.

SMGLee

06-08-2009, 03:51 PM

MSRP for the SCAR 16s is $2696.56 (per the FN forum)

SOCOM is paying about $2500 each (per a SCAR article in Guns & Ammo).

But the 2500.00 price tag also include 7x 30rds magazines and also the AAC SCAR suppressor... so the 2500.00 price tag for SOCOM isn't too bad.

The complaints about the reciprocating charging handle need to be taken to SOCOM not FNH. SOCOM is the one that directed the SCAR have it.

No the complain is from SOCOM to FN, The ball is squarely in it is now in FN's court. but I can understand FN's position, many changes have been made over the process, some changes are back and forth, just look at the selector changes Gen 1 to Gen 2 back to gen 1 and not like the original M16... you can imagine FN's frustration.