Kerry supports Al-Sadr

[jizzmonkey]

Kerry: Terrorist Shiite Al-Sadr 'a Legitimate Voice'

In an interview broadcast Wednesday morning, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry defended terrorist Shiite imam Muqtada al-Sadr as a "legitimate voice" in Iraq, despite that fact that he's led an uprising that has killed nearly 20 American GIs in the last two days.

Speaking of al-Sadr's newspaper, which was shut down by coalition forces last week after it urged violence against U.S. troops, Kerry complained to National Public Radio, "They shut a newspaper that belongs to a legitimate voice in Iraq."

In the next breath, however, the White House hopeful caught himself and quickly changed direction. "Well, let me ... change the term 'legitimate.' It belongs to a voice — because he has clearly taken on a far more radical tone in recent days and aligned himself with both Hamas and Hezbollah, which is a sort of terrorist alignment."

But Kerry again seemed to voice sympathy for the Shiite terrorist when asked whether he supported al-Sadr's arrest. "Not if it’s an isolated act without the other kinds of steps necessary to change the dynamics on the ground in Iraq," Kerry told NPR, in quotes first reported by the New York Sun.

"If all we do is make war against the Iraqi people and continue an American occupation, fundamentally, without a clarity as to who and how sovereignty is being turned over, we have a very serious problem for the long run here," Kerry added. "And I think this administration is just walking dead center down into that trap."

On March 28, the U.S.-led coalition authorities closed al-Sadr's newspaper, al-Hawza, for 60 days, the Sun reported. L. Paul Bremer, the chief U.S. administrator in Iraq, charged that the newspaper had published false stories blaming the coalition forces for local acts of terrorism.





WTF????

[usa320]

I second that notion.

[Secret Squirrel]

you forgot the link...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/7/104340.shtml
**** from newsmax doesnt even deserve to belong in the humor section..

oh hey did you know aliens are massing over WA?

http://www.rense.com/general53/record.htm

rofl

"newsmax! newsmax!" *hundreds of screaming people running away"

[jizzmonkey]

you forgot the link...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/7/104340.shtml
**** from newsmax doesnt even deserve to belong in the humor section..

oh hey did you know aliens are massing over WA?

http://www.rense.com/general53/record.htm

rofl

"newsmax! newsmax!" *hundreds of screaming people running away"

so what the hell is wrong with newsmax???
not liberal enough for your dumb ass???

[Secret Squirrel]

you forgot the link...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/7/104340.shtml
**** from newsmax doesnt even deserve to belong in the humor section..

oh hey did you know aliens are massing over WA?

http://www.rense.com/general53/record.htm

rofl

"newsmax! newsmax!" *hundreds of screaming people running away"

so what the hell is wrong with newsmax???
not liberal enough for your dumb ass???

For starters people from newsmax appear at www.rense.com. Secondly, they have a habit of changing stories. If newsmax was in a supermarket, it'd be next to a paper who's top story was "500 pound cat gives birth to 50 pound human baby". I cant believe anyone actually belives the b.s newsmax writes.

[jizzmonkey]

so far I havent seen any "tabloid like" material on the site......

could it be your in denial???? :backhand:

[scm77]

But if they wrote something negative about Bush, you would call them a trusted source stating important concerns.

[Secret Squirrel]

so far I havent seen any "tabloid like" material on the site......

could it be your in denial???? :backhand:

Internet Hoaxes and Urban Legends
By Jolene Johnson
The other day I received another one of those emails that gets circulated around the Internet. You've seen them - they've been forwarded through about twenty people before they reach a friend who sends them on to you. Most of the time they contain an amusing story, joke, or inspirational poem.

This one was a little different. It started out explaining that the Gold Star Mothers is an organization of women who've lost sons in military action. Then it goes on to state, "Recently a delegation of New York State Gold Star Mothers made a trip to Washington, DC to discuss various concerns with their elected representatives. According to NewsMax.com there was only one politician in DC who refused to meet with these ladies. Can you guess which politician that might be?...."

It continues, "None other than the Queen herself, Hillary Clinton. She refused repeated requests to meet with the Gold Star Mothers..." It concludes by urging everyone to "forward this to as many people as you can..."

Curious about this, I went to NewsMax.com, which was cited as a reference in this email. There really was a news story stating this incident as fact. But somehow it just didn't sound right. So I decided to check out the web site for the Gold Star Moms. Right on the front page of their site is the following disclaimer: "With regard to the NewsMax article concerning our organization, the American Gold Star Mothers, Inc., deeply regret the misunderstanding about Senator Hillary Clinton. The two mothers who visited Washington did not have an appointment with the Senator and she was not in her office on that day. We would appreciate it if the e-mails and negative comments about Senator Clinton would cease."

This type of email that gets circulated around cyberspace is known as an "urban legend" or "hoax." They range from promises that Bill Gates will send you $150.00 just for forwarding an email, to virus hoaxes. One thing most have in common is the request to "forward this email to all your friends," thus perpetuating the rumor and cluttering up other people's email boxes.
http://oursenioryears.com/legends.html

[Secret Squirrel]

But if they wrote something negative about Bush, you would call them a trusted source stating important concerns.

actually, they'd never write anything bad about Bush. And even if they did, i still wouldnt believe it.

[jizzmonkey]

so far I havent seen any "tabloid like" material on the site......

could it be your in denial???? :backhand:

Internet Hoaxes and Urban Legends
By Jolene Johnson
The other day I received another one of those emails that gets circulated around the Internet. You've seen them - they've been forwarded through about twenty people before they reach a friend who sends them on to you. Most of the time they contain an amusing story, joke, or inspirational poem.

This one was a little different. It started out explaining that the Gold Star Mothers is an organization of women who've lost sons in military action. Then it goes on to state, "Recently a delegation of New York State Gold Star Mothers made a trip to Washington, DC to discuss various concerns with their elected representatives. According to NewsMax.com there was only one politician in DC who refused to meet with these ladies. Can you guess which politician that might be?...."

It continues, "None other than the Queen herself, Hillary Clinton. She refused repeated requests to meet with the Gold Star Mothers..." It concludes by urging everyone to "forward this to as many people as you can..."

Curious about this, I went to NewsMax.com, which was cited as a reference in this email. There really was a news story stating this incident as fact. But somehow it just didn't sound right. So I decided to check out the web site for the Gold Star Moms. Right on the front page of their site is the following disclaimer: "With regard to the NewsMax article concerning our organization, the American Gold Star Mothers, Inc., deeply regret the misunderstanding about Senator Hillary Clinton. The two mothers who visited Washington did not have an appointment with the Senator and she was not in her office on that day. We would appreciate it if the e-mails and negative comments about Senator Clinton would cease."

This type of email that gets circulated around cyberspace is known as an "urban legend" or "hoax." They range from promises that Bill Gates will send you $150.00 just for forwarding an email, to virus hoaxes. One thing most have in common is the request to "forward this email to all your friends," thus perpetuating the rumor and cluttering up other people's email boxes.
http://oursenioryears.com/legends.html



ohhhhh!

you convinced me!

I'll start hating America too!!
:roll:

[Secret Squirrel]

By Terry Krepel
Posted 4/7/2004

Not too long ago, ConWebWatch noted as part of a recent spate of silliness by NewsMax a Feb. 15 article that purports to compare statistics about who voted in the 2000 presidential election.
Turns out those "2000 Election Facts" -- actually, an e-mail that has been floating around for years -- were not just silly, they are also, in part, flat-out wrong.

Here is what NewsMax's article says:

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent Presidential election:

Population of counties won by:
Gore = 127 million
Bush = 143 million

Square miles of land won by:
Gore = 580,000
Bush = 2,2427,000


States won by:
Gore = 19
Bush = 29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore = 13.2
Bush = 2.1

The first big error: Olson didn't say any of this. As the urban legend-busting folks at Snopes.com discovered, while there is indeed a Hamline University and a Professor Joseph Olson, he "confirmed that he had no authorship or involvement in this matter." Olson's name apparently got added to the e-mail somewhere along the line.

The statistics on the population of counties and land area appear to be accurate, Snopes reports, but they're irrelevant to NewsMax's headline claim that "Red States Are the Real America." Counties and land masses don't vote; you'd think NewsMax might have noticed that by now.

The murder rate, however, is completely wrong. Snopes computed homicide data by county for 1999 and 2000 from the National Archive of Criminal Justice Data and came up with quite different numbers. According to Snopes, the murder rate in Bush counties was 4.1 and in Gore counties, 6.5. A distinct difference, but not as dramatic as the one NewsMax advances.

This is not the first instance of this legend appearing on NewsMax. To show how old this little legend is, Neal Boortz cited it in a Nov. 29, 2000, column, complete with erroneous reference to Olson and incorrect murder rate statistics, to which he adds: "Ah, those Gore voters. This country needs more of them, right?" Diane Alden also cited it in a Dec. 5, 2000, commentary.

In fact, ConWebWatch wrote about Boortz's column back in 2000, noting where Boortz didn't that Olson was a member of the National Rifle Association board of directors. That's how old this thing is. And NewsMax is treating it as a "current" news story?

The number of states listed is a big clue to the e-mail's age. Note that the numbers add up to only 48. As Snopes points out, this implies the original article was written before the results of the Florida and New Mexico vote-counts were determined; the final tallies were 30 states for Bush and 20 for Gore. So much for copy-editing at NewsMax -- they couldn't even be bothered to add up those obviously incorrect numbers.

That's not the only case of e-mail legends creeping into NewsMax copy. Snopes reports that the stats e-mail usually includes a quote from "Alexander Tyler," an 18-century Scottish history professor, comparing the U.S. to the lifespan of the Athenian Empire of ancient Greece and the following sequence of events in a democracy:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

The problem? First, wrong name. Snopes concludes the e-mail is referring to Alexander Fraser Tytler, who was indeed an 18-century Scottish history professor, which brings us to the second problem -- there is no evidence that Tytler said anything about the lifespan of democracies.

Yet NewsMax writers fell for this, too. Miguel A. Faria Jr., NewsMax's resident Castro-basher, got Tytler's name right in an August 2001 article but erroneously attributes the Athenian democracy quote to him. George Putnam cites the bondage sequence in a November 2003 column but attributes it to Ezra Taft Benson, secretary of agriculture in the Eisenhower administration and former president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons).

NewsMax wasn't the only one suckered in. WorldNetDaily's Joseph Farah recited the bondage-to-bondage sequence, credited generically to "historians," in a July 2000 column and again in July 2002 (in fact, both columns are pretty much the same, so instead of plagiarizing others, Farah in this instance plagiarizes himself).

What does it say about NewsMax that it considers an incorrect four-year-old e-mail to be current news? Nothing about journalistic integrity, that's for sure.

* * *

Other recent silliness at NewsMax:

-- The latest Kerry-bashing: NewsMax ran two stories about plans by the Bush re-election campaign and the Republican National Committee against John Kerry's campaign and supporting groups for allegedly illegally coordinating spending of "soft money" in the campaign. Missing from both stories: any reaction from the Kerry campaign.

-- Jon Dougherty Sycophancy Alert: The One-Source Wonder (who, by the way, got suckered in by those statistics too way back when) turned in a fine suck-up effort April 5 on William Bennett's new radio show. Typical sentence from the story: "Bennett will have a natural, nationwide audience who like his no nonsense conservative talk."

-- And amidst all this mindless Kerry-bashing, sycophancy and reporting of lies by his employer, NewsMax columnist wrote a March 31 column attacking (surprise) "the socialist elite who dominate the mainstream media." The headline for his column? "The Truth Is Not In Them." One typical sentence: "The chances are that when it comes to their coverage of the presidential campaign, you are being deceived."

Brennan will never admit it, of course, but the sad fact is that he's talking about NewsMax, too.

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2004/nmlegend.html

And dont forget this example...

Senate Republicans Scuttle Gun Bill

By JESSE J. HOLLAND, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans scuttled their election-year gun legislation Tuesday after Democrats succeeded in winning approval of amendments to extend an assault weapons ban and require background checks on all buyers at private gun shows.

Here’s how NewsMax posted the story:

Senate Republicans Scuttle Tainted Gun Bill

NewsMax.com Wires

Tuesday, Mar. 2, 2004

WASHINGTON – Senate Republicans scuttled an election-year bill to immunize the gun industry from lawsuits Tuesday after Democrats amended it to extend a ban on what they call "assault weapons" and require background checks on all buyers at private gun shows.

NewsMax changed the meaning of the story by rearranging the order and adding things such as the phrase “what they call ‘assault weapons.’” Although they did thoughtfully leave the AP copyright in place, including the warning that no one was allowed to "rewrite" the copyrighted story. If you disagree with me, you can easily look up these facts and confirm them.

[Secret Squirrel]

so far I havent seen any "tabloid like" material on the site......

could it be your in denial???? :backhand:

Internet Hoaxes and Urban Legends
By Jolene Johnson
The other day I received another one of those emails that gets circulated around the Internet. You've seen them - they've been forwarded through about twenty people before they reach a friend who sends them on to you. Most of the time they contain an amusing story, joke, or inspirational poem.

This one was a little different. It started out explaining that the Gold Star Mothers is an organization of women who've lost sons in military action. Then it goes on to state, "Recently a delegation of New York State Gold Star Mothers made a trip to Washington, DC to discuss various concerns with their elected representatives. According to NewsMax.com there was only one politician in DC who refused to meet with these ladies. Can you guess which politician that might be?...."

It continues, "None other than the Queen herself, Hillary Clinton. She refused repeated requests to meet with the Gold Star Mothers..." It concludes by urging everyone to "forward this to as many people as you can..."

Curious about this, I went to NewsMax.com, which was cited as a reference in this email. There really was a news story stating this incident as fact. But somehow it just didn't sound right. So I decided to check out the web site for the Gold Star Moms. Right on the front page of their site is the following disclaimer: "With regard to the NewsMax article concerning our organization, the American Gold Star Mothers, Inc., deeply regret the misunderstanding about Senator Hillary Clinton. The two mothers who visited Washington did not have an appointment with the Senator and she was not in her office on that day. We would appreciate it if the e-mails and negative comments about Senator Clinton would cease."

This type of email that gets circulated around cyberspace is known as an "urban legend" or "hoax." They range from promises that Bill Gates will send you $150.00 just for forwarding an email, to virus hoaxes. One thing most have in common is the request to "forward this email to all your friends," thus perpetuating the rumor and cluttering up other people's email boxes.
http://oursenioryears.com/legends.html



ohhhhh!

you convinced me!

I'll start hating America too!!
:roll:

keep your simplistic "arguments" to yourself. If the extent of your ability to debate something is "i'll hate america too" then i feel sorry for you. Actually i already do feel sorry for you if you believe anything thats written solely on newsmax. woot

[jizzmonkey]

And I suppose Michael Moore is an honest American Patriot :roll:

whatever man, I HOPE YOUR A FELON AND CANT VOTE!

[Secret Squirrel]

And I suppose Michael Moore is an honest American Patriot :roll:

whatever man, I HOPE YOUR A FELON AND CANT VOTE!

it's "you're", not "your" and no Michael Moore is the complete opposite of newsmax; they're both as far from each other as possible (and not in a good way).

[jizzmonkey]

ARGUE????


I'd rather just call you a Jack-ass and be on my way!

so just keep being part of the problem and let the grown ups run the country. :roll:

[Secret Squirrel]

ARGUE????


I'd rather just call you a Jack-ass and be on my way!

so just keep being part of the problem and let the grown ups run the country. :roll:

YOU'RE (see, proper use) a "grown-up"? May God have mercy on us all.

[Tane Angle]

Ok, let's be realistic here. John Kerry, like him or not, isn't a political moron, and he is not without aides to tell him to shut up when he starts going to far. Most major politicians, if not all, do, including President Bush.

Kerry's aides know that it would be political suicide to make such a statement. What's more, none of the major media outlets-not even Fox News p-) -have talked about this yet. Sounds like it was either taken extremely out of context, selectively quoted (perhaps both), or never happened at all. If the major outlets start talking about it, well then that might add legitimacy to the story. But for now, seems like it didn't happen. No offense or disrespect to NewsMax.com, though, of course.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Secret Squirrel]

the point is, if someone posted an article by Moore (and no i dont like him or his extreme views), no one from the other "side" would believe it. And why wouldnt they believe it? Because Moore is obviously an extremist. So how can someone expect people on the other "side" of newsmax (which is also an extremist group) to believe anything from newsmax? Newsmax has proven repeatedly in the past that it edits/slants stories.

[usa320]

dont mind secret squirrel, hes just mad because the United States is winning in Iraq...

[SpazzMunky]

It's a fact that Newsmax isnt credible. Although it may say what you want to hear, its incredibly slanted. Secret Squirrel probably put it best, it's a right-wing version of Micheal Moore. Don't take for truth things that havn't been taken up by major news outlets.

[Secret Squirrel]

dont mind secret squirrel, hes just mad because the United States is winning in Iraq...

If you spoke less usa320, you might look a little more intelligent and people might actually listen to your ideas. But please, feel free to point out where I've said that I want Iraq to turn into a failure? And yes, post actual statements that I've made and not just some more of your mindless rantings. And then tell me what this has to do with the fact that I dont believe newsmax to be a credible news source. It shouldnt be hard for you to back up what you repeat like a broken record, unless you're stuck at another impasse and you cant rationalize your arguments any further?

[BlackRain]

you forgot the link...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/7/104340.shtml
**** from newsmax doesnt even deserve to belong in the humor section..

oh hey did you know aliens are massing over WA?

http://www.rense.com/general53/record.htm

rofl

"newsmax! newsmax!" *hundreds of screaming people running away"

Just to be sure. Are you saying that the quotes in the story attributed to John Kerry are false?

Here is the National Public Radio interview in which Kerry uttered his support for a man responsible for the deaths of 20 US servicemen.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1815395

[Secret Squirrel]

you forgot the link...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/7/104340.shtml
**** from newsmax doesnt even deserve to belong in the humor section..

oh hey did you know aliens are massing over WA?

http://www.rense.com/general53/record.htm

rofl

"newsmax! newsmax!" *hundreds of screaming people running away"

Just to be sure. Are you saying that the quotes in the story attributed to John Kerry are false?

Here is the National Public Radio interview in which Kerry uttered his support for a man responsible for the deaths of 20 US servicemen.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1815395

Newsmax version...


In the next breath, however, the White House hopeful caught himself and quickly changed direction. "Well, let me ... change the term 'legitimate.' It belongs to a voice — because he has clearly taken on a far more radical tone in recent days and aligned himself with both Hamas and Hezbollah, which is a sort of terrorist alignment."

But Kerry again seemed to voice sympathy for the Shiite terrorist when asked whether he supported al-Sadr's arrest. "Not if it’s an isolated act without the other kinds of steps necessary to change the dynamics on the ground in Iraq," Kerry told NPR, in quotes first reported by the New York Sun.

"If all we do is make war against the Iraqi people and continue an American occupation, fundamentally, without a clarity as to who and how sovereignty is being turned over, we have a very serious problem for the long run here," Kerry added. "And I think this administration is just walking dead center down into that trap."

Interview version


Not if it’s an isolated act without the other kinds of steps necessary to change the dynamics on the ground in Iraq,"

If all we do is make war against the Iraqi people and continue an American occupation, fundamentally, without a clarity as to who and how sovereignty is being turned over, we have a very serious problem for the long run here," Kerry added. "And I think this administration is just walking dead center down into that trap."

"Well, let me ... change the term 'legitimate.' It belongs to a voice — because he has clearly taken on a far more radical tone in recent days and aligned himself with both Hamas and Hezbollah, which is a sort of terrorist alignment."

Of course the interview continues...

"So it creates its own set of needs in order to deal with the possible future spread of terrorism. But at the same time, if its unaccompanied by a broader set of moves to try and broaden our own base in Iraq, i just think it asks for great difficulties." <--you would disagree?

"As i have said since day one, is what you need is to min. the perception and reality of an American occupation. You need to min. the targetting of American soldiers and that is done by max. the sharing of responsibility and risk on the ground, whichalso is the way you min. the cost to the American people....(and it continues, actually making Bush look pretty bad)"

I guess newsmax juxtaposed certain paragraphs mistakenly? Surely they'd never try to slant a story. :roll: And tell me where Kerry shows support for Sadr? Kerry, in light of the Bush admin's handling of Iraq, if you listen to the interview, is basically saying that this one move of trying to shut down Sadr isnt going to fix all the problems in Iraq. And that if this is the only thing thats done at the time, then it's just going to cause more problems. As for Sadr being a legimate voice...Sadr is an Iraqi right? He was unhappy with the occupation right? Or are only those Iraqis who are pro-occupation, legitmate voices in Iraq? For God's sake, Sadr, like it or not, is a cleric; he had a broad support base and he showed it. And no I'm not showing support for Sadr or his actions, i'm simply recongizing the circumstances. Honestly, what did you think was going to happen in Iraq once the Baathists were banned? Woah, could it be possible that a religious element would fill the gap? Was the violence in Iraq based upon one newspaper and one cleric? or was it a scape goat move? And why was April choosen to arrest Sadr? Did Iraq have a court system established? These are the things Kerry is questioning. The Sadr example is just a small example used to elucidate a larger, as Kerry sees it, policy failure by the Bush administration (ie. how did the situation progress to the point where closing a news paper led to an uprising).

[Secret Squirrel]

Bump, just incase you missed it usa320. woot



dont mind secret squirrel, hes just mad because the United States is winning in Iraq...

If you spoke less usa320, you might look a little more intelligent and people might actually listen to your ideas. But please, feel free to point out where I've said that I want Iraq to turn into a failure? And yes, post actual statements that I've made and not just some more of your mindless rantings. And then tell me what this has to do with the fact that I dont believe newsmax to be a credible news source. It shouldnt be hard for you to back up what you repeat like a broken record, unless you're stuck at another impasse and you cant rationalize your arguments any further?

[usa320]

bump...just incase you missed it secret squirrel...


Your a terrorist loving dirtbag.

[Secret Squirrel]

bump...just incase you missed it secret squirrel...


Your a terrorist loving dirtbag.

No quotes from me? No proof? just more ramblings? rofl I guess this cold case file is closed. woot

[chauncy republicans]

bump...just incase you missed it secret squirrel...


Your a terrorist loving dirtbag...
:cantbeli: ...and your a Bush loving traitor!
Your either with BUSH or your with the terrorists...Yeah, right this is how it really goes: Your either with AMERICA or your with BUSH!!

[usa320]

**** off. You dont give half a **** about the military, so go somewhere else...

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

This thread should be renamed "Die hard republicans getting desperate, Bush in telepathic contact with aliens from Pluto"

[usa320]

wtf?

[rob]

how about you just let this tread die,

the (i hate to use the word but due to lack of a better one right now) libs won this one. just acknowledge that. even if you are republian or whatever you have to filter the facts out of the bs even if you wish they where true.

[Beowulf]

this thread has run its course

[usa320]

yeah your right rob. This thread was crap from the start.