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kkbou
05-26-2009, 05:38 PM
Gwynne Dyer: Koreans, Israelis, and nuclear weapons

By Gwynne Dyer (http://www.straight.com/archives/contributor/194)
Why are Koreans so much braver than Israelis when faced with the threat of nuclear weapons?
North Korea's second underground nuclear test, much bigger than its first in October 2006, did not cause panic in South Korea.
Even when North Korea conducted a short-range missile test only hours after the explosion—to underline that all of South Korea lies open to nuclear attack—South Koreans went about their business as usual. Nobody fled the country to escape from the threat.
How different from Israel, where a recent opinion poll conducted by the Centre for Iranian Studies at Tel Aviv University revealed that almost a quarter of Israel's seven million citizens would consider leaving the country if Iran gets nuclear weapons. Israeli leaders talk about an "existential threat" to the country's survival, and warn almost daily that Iran is on the brink of developing the bomb.
There are major differences between the North Korea-South Korea relationship and the Israel-Iran one, but they just deepen the puzzle. The two Koreas have actually fought a war in which millions died, and the two countries' troops still face each other across a massively fortified ceasefire line. Almost every year there are violent incidents along the border or on the seas around the Korean peninsula.
Israel and Iran, by contrast, have never fought a war, and do not even have a common border. Iran has no nuclear weapons, and denies that it has any intention of making any. Nor has Iran ever threatened war with Israel.
Iran's current president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has said that the Israeli state should be "wiped from the pages of history", which makes him about the 20th leader of a Muslim country to voice that empty sentiment. However, he has never said that Iran should do that job, nor is he in any position to attack Israel. It is the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, who controls Iran's foreign policy and armed forces.
During his 20 years in office, Ali Khamenei has never been involved in a foreign war, nor has he ever echoed the remarks of the excitable Ahmadinejad, whereas North Korea finds some pretext to declare that war with the South is imminent almost every year.
So why are Israelis almost hysterical about the Iranian threat, while South Koreans are phlegmatic about the North Korean threat?
It gets even weirder. Both Israel and South Korea have a security guarantee from the United States, which ultimately includes the backing of the U.S. nuclear deterrent. But South Korea has no nuclear weapons of its own and no ambitions of acquiring them, whereas Israel has hundreds of the things. In fact, it has enough nuclear weapons and delivery systems to destroy every Iranian city at the same time in a first strike.
Israelis are just as intelligent as Koreans, so there must be more going on here than meets the eye. Indeed, Israeli leaders know that Muslim leaders are not homicidal and suicidal maniacs, even if the general public is encouraged to believe in the myth of "mad mullahs". There has to be some genuine strategic distinction that explains the difference between the Israeli and the South Korean responses.
There is. It lies precisely in the fact that Israel possesses nuclear weapons, while South Korea does not. South Koreans trust in the U.S. nuclear deterrent, having no alternative. Israelis trust in their own deterrent, and enjoy the luxury of having the U.S. deterrent as back-up—but they also have other fish to fry.
Israel's nuclear weapons are not meant only to deter a nuclear attack on Israel. They would serve that purpose quite well, but they are also configured to give Israel "extended" deterrence; that is, the ability to stop a variety of other things from happening by threatening to use nuclear weapons.
Those things would certainly include a conventional military attack on Israel, but they might extend to other political or technological developments in the Arab world as well.
In conformity with deterrence doctrine, Israel has never published a list of the things that it might seek to deter by the threat of nuclear weapons use, but all the Arab governments are keenly aware that such a list probably exists.
All Israeli military and political leaders see the regional monopoly of nuclear weapons that their country has had for the past 40 years as a huge strategic asset. It would evaporate overnight if any Arab state could deliver even a single nuclear weapon onto Israeli soil. Israel would then be equally deterred from launching a nuclear first strike because of the certainty of devastating retaliation.
Would an Iranian nuclear weapon, if such a thing existed, also negate Israel's "extended" deterrence? Only if the Iranian regime were willing to risk the virtual annihilation of Iran for the sake of the Arabs, which most Arabs would doubt. But Israelis have always taken Islamic solidarity more seriously than most Muslims do.
So the South Koreans stay cool about North Korean nuclear weapons despite the eccentricity of the North Korean regime, while the Israel security establishment worries about Iranian nuclear weapons for reasons quite different from those it mentions in public.
And since Israelis are a people haunted by the Holocaust, the government's rhetoric about an "existential threat" is taken literally by the population, some of whom respond with fantasies of flight.
They are only fantasies. They aren't actually leaving.






A small antidote to the hysteria, there again, maybe not.

TheKiwi
05-27-2009, 03:11 PM
dyer straits
david cohen | tuesday may 12 2009 - 07:14pm
comes the commentator, comes the tagline — but what kind of publishing inflation is this?

Doubtless the average business reader has more important things to do than study the fine print at the bottom of syndicated international pieces. But the customary editorial note accompanying a recent dispatch by the herald's global commentator did rate a second glance: "gwynne dyer is a london-based freelance journalist whose article are published in several countries."

no, it wasn't the misuse of "article" that caused us surprise, it was the "several countries" bit. What's happened?

For years now, the herald's standard authorial note accompanying dyer's left-wing rants - sorry, disinterested global analyses - has identified the contributor as an "independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries." yet the source of this magical figure remains cloaked in mystery.

Thanks to the unprecedented access we enjoy to a top-secret internet search tool (www.google.com), it has long been obvious that the actual tally of known countries whose online publications are frequented by dyer's anti-western tirades probably number no more than a half-dozen or so, most prominently including iran, zimbabwe and of course new zealand. (exclusive to nbr readers: You may also count ‘em all by using the same secret search tool.)

then again, as we’ve speculated in the past, it could be that these pieces are not syndicated to newspapers at all but rather tattooed on to the posteriors of nomadic camels whose bottoms are eventually pored over by villagers across dozens of arabian and north african jurisdictions.

Yet another possibility is that dyer may have become one of the more prominent victims of the international economic situation, his credibility shares having simply plunged by more than 90% in the last quarter.

But wait, today’s issue of the herald carries a new tagline suggesting that dyer’s stocks have dramatically risen once again, back up to the old magic number! What’s happening indeed.

Hmm, perhaps there is something here for business readers to be pondering.



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RoyB
05-27-2009, 03:41 PM
Nor has Iran ever threatened war with Israel.
Stopped reading there.

I can't think of a name
05-27-2009, 03:45 PM
Gwynne Dyer is popular with moonbat leftist.

I know this because in High School we were forced to watch his videos and write papers on them. You know, because public education is not about education but rather leftist indoctrination and incubating a victicrat entitlement culture.

kkbou
05-27-2009, 04:30 PM
Gwynne Dyer is popular with moonbat leftist.

I know this because in High School we were forced to watch his videos and write papers on them. You know, because public education is not about education but rather leftist indoctrination and incubating a victicrat entitlement culture.

The points he makes are solid.

The reality is Israel can turn the whole middle east into molten glass if it so wished.

To claim that it is in mortal danger is laughable.

JJC
05-27-2009, 07:57 PM
To claim that it is in mortal danger is laughable.
Go try telling that to the Israeli defense officials and politicians because according to your expert opinion their years of worrying about Iran's threat is laughable.

Moledet
05-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Iran is a strategic threat because it funds terrorist organizations that attack Israelis and Jews inside Israel and in the diaspora. It spreads its Shi'ite ideology thus hurting the stability of the moderate Arab rulers. It believes in that ideology that speak about the killing of all Sunnis and infidels. It seeks to have greater influence and possibly control oil and gas prices that right now it has no saying on.

Most importantly, we have a choice while the south Koreans never had one and if they are forced to live that way it's better to not be worried about it than become hysterical.

I can't think of a name
05-27-2009, 09:13 PM
The points he makes are solid.

The reality is Israel can turn the whole middle east into molten glass if it so wished.

To claim that it is in mortal danger is laughable.

So Iran is not at fault at all? Since they are completely irrational all of their responsibility is shouldered by the Jews?

Again, go watch the videos Dyer made before the Iraq war and his "Predictions"

Also, plenty of Arabs would like to turn Israelis into molten glass, however the only thing stopping them is the fact they DON'T have a bomb. Israel does and have proven to be responsible with it.

You either have to be a clueless dolt or an Anti-Semite to think Israel is the belligerent one vis a vis Iran. No other explanation.

Captain China
05-27-2009, 10:06 PM
Why are Koreans so much braver than Israelis
cause S. Koreans do not have enough military strength to wage war and acheive victory only by themselves. End of story.

kraf001
05-27-2009, 11:36 PM
Iran is a strategic threat because it funds terrorist organizations that attack Israelis and Jews inside Israel and in the diaspora. It spreads its Shi'ite ideology thus hurting the stability of the moderate Arab rulers. It believes in that ideology that speak about the killing of all Sunnis and infidels. It seeks to have greater influence and possibly control oil and gas prices that right now it has no saying on.

Most importantly, we have a choice while the south Koreans never had one and if they are forced to live that way it's better to not be worried about it than become hysterical.

Must have missed that one as an Iranian growing up... Where is this ideology you talking about? In the school books? In the churches and Synagogues in Iran.. or is it its relationship with infidels like Russia, China, Japan, Armenia, North Korea... Get real man. How many Iran funded Shia Mosque do you see in Western world?

I understand that you feel threatened by position that Ahmadinejad has taken towards Israel but that doesn't mean you should be making **** up.

kkbou
05-28-2009, 01:31 AM
You either have to be a clueless dolt or an Anti-Semite to think Israel is the belligerent one vis a vis Iran. No other explanation.


Iran certainly has a belligerant 'leader' in the form of Ahmadinijad but he certainly isn't the one with all the power.

The mullahs are the ones controlling the country. You may have been duped that they are suicidal morons, but the fact is thay are just as selfish and self-preserving as any other politician or world leader with regards to themselves and their country.

Iran has NO reason to attack israel. Its political program has hijacked the palestinian cause so that it can spread shiism in arab countries, nothing more. It knows it would be completely annihalated if it launched a nuke at israel.

This is all about who pulls the strings in the middle east.


BTW-knock it off with anti-semite jibes. You can call me a clueless dolt if you want, cos sometimes thats true.