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Grahamr117
05-27-2009, 03:10 AM
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/us-troops-should-protect-iraqi-christians/

You don’t have to be a member of the far-left to question what has happened in Iraq since the U.S. invasion in 2003. During Holy Week, we should all consider the plight of Iraqi Christians and their possible extinction. This is something we can do something about. We should demand that the White House immediately order U.S. troops in Iraq to protect the remnants of the Christian community.

There were nearly a million Christians in Iraq before the war and about half of them have left the country. Dozens of Christian churches have been attacked, bombed or destroyed and some Christian children have reportedly been crucified by Islamic terrorists. The Chaldean Catholic Archbishop of Mosul, Paulos Faraj Rahho, was recently kidnapped and murdered. Some Christians left in Iraq don’t go to church for fear of being targeted for death. Some priests don’t wear clerical garb for the same reason. Pope Benedict XVI has pleaded with Bush to do something about the plight of Iraqi Christians.

In another notorious incident, on October 11, 2006, Fr. Paulos Eskandar, a Syrian Orthodox priest, was abducted in Iraq and beheaded. His arms and legs were also hacked off.

Bush should immediately pick up the phone and tell David Petraeus, Commanding General of the Multi-National Forces in Iraq, to use the “surge” of U.S. forces to defend the Christians left in that war-torn country. If they cannot for some reason be defended, then let the Christians be escorted by our troops out of Iraq to a place, like Crawford, Texas, where they can begin new lives.

Does Bush want to go down in history as the U.S. President who launched a war that resulted in the destruction of the Christian community in Iraq?

We know, of course that we can’t count on the liberal media to cover this unfolding catastrophe. They are interested in the war as a political issue that can usher the Democrats into power in the White House.

So let’s call on conservative commentators and bloggers to stop their knee-jerk cheerleading for the Iraq War policy long enough to seriously examine how the new and “democratic” Iraq has become a hellhole for Christians.

In a statement about the death of Archbishop Paulos Faraj Rahho, Bush sounded tough, saying, “I send my condolences to the Chaldean community and the people of Iraq. I deplore the despicable act of violence committed against the Archbishop. The terrorists will continue to lose in Iraq because they are savage and cruel. Their utter disregard for human life, demonstrated by this murder and by recent suicide attacks against innocent Iraqis in Baghdad and innocent pilgrims celebrating a religious holiday, is turning the Iraqi people against them.

We will continue to work with the Iraqi government to protect and support civilians, irrespective of religious affiliation.”

But what exactly is being done to protect Christians in Iraq?

Rosie Malek-Yonan, an Assyrian Christian who has testified before Congress on this issue, says the Bush Administration has become a “silent accomplice” to an “incipient genocide.” She asks, “Will President Bush have the courage to take off his blinders or will he continue to stumble in the dark until his final day in office?” She suggests that the Bush Administration is failing to deal with this embarrassing disaster because it is afraid of having the United States, a perceived “Christian country,” being accused as “helping one of its own” in a Muslim country.

Is it not tragic that U.S. troops, many of them Christian, are not being specifically deployed to help their fellow believers in Iraq?

In his speech on Wednesday, Bush said that the U.S. is “helping the people of Iraq establish a democracy in the heart of the Middle East.” But no matter what has been accomplished in Iraq, it is not a democracy that benefits Christians and other religious minorities.

Earlier this year, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom drew attention to a coordinated series of bomb attacks against churches and monasteries in Iraq. It reported, “At least six people were reportedly wounded in seven separate attacks in Baghdad and Mosul as Christians were celebrating Christmas and the Epiphany on Jan. 6; three days later, bombs targeted three churches in Kirkuk. The attacks were the latest to target Iraq’s shrinking non-Muslim population, many of whose members have fled the country in the wake of violence directed against their communities.”

The Commission says that Christians and other non-Muslims in Iraq face “grave conditions” in Iraq in the form of violence from terrorists and “pervasive discrimination and marginalization” at the hands of the national and regional governments and Muslim militia groups.

Bush calls Iraq a democracy, but its Constitution, crafted with U.S. help, says no law should be contrary to Islam. In Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO troops are desperately propping up another Muslim government, a 23-year-old Afghan journalism student by the name of Sayed Parwez Kambakhsh has been sentenced to death for allegedly distributing literature violating the tenets of Islam. The material had to do with human rights for women.

In Iraq, according to the State Department’s 2007 International Religious Freedom Report, many Muslim holy days have been declared national holidays. However, Christmas and Easter are not recognized as national holidays.

The report says, “There were allegations that the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) engaged in discriminatory behavior against religious minorities. Christians living north of Mosul claimed that the KRG confiscated their property without compensation and began building settlements on their land. During the reporting period, Assyrian Christians alleged that the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP)-dominated judiciary continued to discriminate routinely against non-Muslims and failed to enforce judgments in their favor. Despite such allegations, many non-Muslims fled to Northern Iraq from the more volatile areas in the middle and southern parts of the country, where pressures to conform publicly to narrow interpretations of Islamic teaching were greater. However, migration statistics were not available.”

Under the category of forced religious conversion, the report says, “Christians also reported that Islamic extremists warned Christians living in Baghdad’s Dora district to convert, leave, or be killed.”

Islamic extremists in Iraq have also been kidnapping Christians, including at least nine priests, for ransom. The report adds, “Christian leaders inside and outside of the country reported that members of their Baghdad community, especially in the district of Dora, received threat letters demanding that Christians leave or be killed.” As a result, more Christian families are fleeing.

In other incidents, the report says, “Chaldean clergyman reported in April 2007 that ‘in the last 2 months many Churches have been forced to remove their crosses from their domes.’ For example, Muslim extremists climbed onto the roof and removed the cross of the Church of Saint George in Baghdad. In the Chaldean Church of Saint John, in the Dora district of Baghdad, the parishioners decided to move the cross to a safer place after repeated threats. The Chaldean Patriarchate in January 2007 officially transferred Babel College, the major Chaldean seminary and the only Christian theological university in the country, from the Dora district in Baghdad to Ankawa near Irbil after months of closure following kidnappings and threats against Christians. Between September and December 2006, the rector and vice rector of the seminary were kidnapped in Baghdad; both were released after a week.”

The report says, “Non-Muslims, particularly Christians, complained of being isolated by the Muslim majority because of their religious differences. Despite their statistically proportional representation in the National Assembly, many non-Muslims stated they were disenfranchised and their interests not adequately represented. The combination of discriminatory hiring practices by members of the majority Muslim population, attacks against non-Muslim businesses, and the overall lack of rule of law, have also had a detrimental economic impact on the non-Muslim community and contributed to the departure of significant numbers of non-Muslims from the country.”

“The battle in Iraq is noble, it is necessary, and it is just,” Bush said in his speech on the anniversary of the start of the Iraq War. But how can this be if it leads to the destruction of the Christian community in Iraq? It is an absolute outrage for this to be occurring under the auspices of a conservative Republican President who claims to be a born-again Christian.

Pope Benedict XVI can be expected to raise this issue with Bush when he comes to the U.S. for a visit in April. We can raise it with the President now.

You can contact the White House here.

Please, Mr. President, do something immediately before more Iraqi Christians are targeted on Good Friday and Easter for practicing their faith. Order our troops into the field in order to protect Christian churches and believers before more lives are lost.

I believe I saw a news report awhile ago about Iraq's disappearing Christians, and a U.S soldier basically stated that the Coalition can't do anything about this for fear of looking impartial.

Honestly, I wish the Assyrians could have just made like these guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army

But sadly that's not possible, seeing as how apparently all the able-bodied Assyrians are gone.

Ordie
05-27-2009, 02:19 PM
Many have gone to Jordan and Syria.

Arab Christians throughout the Middle East are leaving for Europe, South America and North America.

Grahamr117
05-27-2009, 03:13 PM
Many have gone to Jordan and Syria.

Arab Christians throughout the Middle East are leaving for Europe, South America and North America.

Of course. There is a conspiracy to eliminate them.

Egypt decided to cull all 300,000 pigs in it's borders, supposedly to stop the spread of Swine Flu. But H1N1 doesn't appear in pigs, it's an amalgamation of human, bird, and pig DNA. Islamic Egyptians don't eat pig, but Coptic christians do. So, the Egyptian government is using the outbreak as a pretext to oppress the Copts.

khukuri
05-27-2009, 07:04 PM
Of course. There is a conspiracy to eliminate them.

Egypt decided to cull all 300,000 pigs in it's borders, supposedly to stop the spread of Swine Flu. But H1N1 doesn't appear in pigs, it's an amalgamation of human, bird, and pig DNA. Islamic Egyptians don't eat pig, but Coptic christians do. So, the Egyptian government is using the outbreak as a pretext to oppress the Copts.

Ah conspiracy theories, the PIG case is nothing new in egypt, and as I pointed out in the proper thread egypt did the exact same thing when they had a similar situation with chickens a year ago or so, and similarly they didnt need to kill the chickens either. Are you saying that Egypt has a plan to get ridd of all chicken eaters too?

The Christians in Iraq have suffered, but no differently than any other group. Christians, Subbas, Sunnis, Shias, Kurds, Arabs, Turkomen, Kurds and god knows what have all been attacked and forced to leave their neighbourhood. There is a concpiracy to get rid of Iraqs Christians, but there is also a conspiracy aimed at everyone else, shias, sunnis and etc.

razor 01
05-27-2009, 07:07 PM
yeah your right i knew a van driver from iraq who was a christian and he told me about the the unseen side of iraq
was tariq asis a christian????

Ordie
05-27-2009, 07:45 PM
yeah your right i knew a van driver from iraq who was a christian and he told me about the the unseen side of iraq
was tariq asis a christian????

Tariq Aziz is an Iraqi Christian.

Baathist, in theory, are secular Arab nationalist.

Ironically Syria, a Baathist country led by an authoritarian Alawite elite, is considered a safe haven for Christians.

Jordan also has a notable Christian minority of locals, alog with Ex-pats, Armenians, Palestinian and Iraqi refugees from various conflicts.

sheytanelkebir
05-27-2009, 07:58 PM
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/us-troops-should-protect-iraqi-christians/


I believe I saw a news report awhile ago about Iraq's disappearing Christians, and a U.S soldier basically stated that the Coalition can't do anything about this for fear of looking impartial.

Honestly, I wish the Assyrians could have just made like these guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army

But sadly that's not possible, seeing as how apparently all the able-bodied Assyrians are gone.

this is nothing new, there's been an exodus of christians from iraq since the 1933 simele massacre (after the last time the british setup a "christian militia" the levies, who saw an opportunity to create a christian homeland in northern Iraq's nineveh valley), and the following decades in which athuris were simply made the lowest class in society (the most well known athuri profession being the cleaning of septic tanks).

The article however does have one MAJOR flaw. They quote the number of christians in Iraq from 1987, and compare it with the numbers estimated to remain today. Everyone knows that the majority of christians were moving out of Iraq during the embargo years 1991-2003... the exodus accelerated after 2003 because there were no longer problems in leaving the country including:
-conscription for young men
-doctors and other professionals being banned from leaving the country (Yes this was true between 1990-2003).
-requirement for an exit visa equivalent to 100x the average annual income
-border guards ready to shoot on sight

the open borders policy after 2003 helped many christians to leave iraq easier, and the worsening situation in areas where christians concentrated exarcabated the situation further (baghdad and mosul).

in fact, both as a total number, and as a % of their community, the christians suffered only slightly more than kurds in the aftermath of the 2003 war. The worst sufferers were undoubtedly the Yazidi community, the Sabean community and shia arabs,followed by sunni arabs. But the above mentioned groups don't have "external agitators" to spread much news about them like the christians (the christian world) and kurds (perceived to be allied to the US). The arabic media/politicans of course drum up the case for sunni-arabs in Iraq, but nobody gives a t*ss about the yazidis and mandeans who suffered the most.

Grahamr117
05-27-2009, 08:49 PM
Ah conspiracy theories, the PIG case is nothing new in egypt, and as I pointed out in the proper thread egypt did the exact same thing when they had a similar situation with chickens a year ago or so, and similarly they didnt need to kill the chickens either. Are you saying that Egypt has a plan to get ridd of all chicken eaters too?

The Christians in Iraq have suffered, but no differently than any other group. Christians, Subbas, Sunnis, Shias, Kurds, Arabs, Turkomen, Kurds and god knows what have all been attacked and forced to leave their neighbourhood. There is a concpiracy to get rid of Iraqs Christians, but there is also a conspiracy aimed at everyone else, shias, sunnis and etc.

Chickens, huh?

I do not know about this. I'll look into it.

Wtf are they trying to do, rid their entire country of farm animals?

In any case, whatever the govt's intention the Copts will suffer as a result.

What makes the Christian Iraqis unique is that 40% of the refugees getting kicked out of Iraq are actually Christian...Everyone is suffering, but the EXISTANCE of the Christians(and other small religions) is being threatened.

Ordie
05-27-2009, 08:51 PM
Chickens, huh?

I do not know about this. I'll look into it.

Wtf are they trying to do, rid their entire country of farm animals?

In any case, whatever the govt's intention the Copts will suffer as a result.

What makes the Christian Iraqis unique is that 40% of the refugees getting kicked out of Iraq are actually Christian...Everyone is suffering, but the EXISTANCE of the Christians(and other small religions) is being threatened.

Shia and Sunni are positioning themselves at the expense of the minorities.

Only the Kurds have the cojones to stand up for themselves.

Grahamr117
05-27-2009, 08:55 PM
this is nothing new, there's been an exodus of christians from iraq since the 1933 simele massacre (after the last time the british setup a "christian militia" the levies, who saw an opportunity to create a christian homeland in northern Iraq's nineveh valley), and the following decades in which athuris were simply made the lowest class in society (the most well known athuri profession being the cleaning of septic tanks).

The article however does have one MAJOR flaw. They quote the number of christians in Iraq from 1987, and compare it with the numbers estimated to remain today. Everyone knows that the majority of christians were moving out of Iraq during the embargo years 1991-2003... the exodus accelerated after 2003 because there were no longer problems in leaving the country including:
-conscription for young men
-doctors and other professionals being banned from leaving the country (Yes this was true between 1990-2003).
-requirement for an exit visa equivalent to 100x the average annual income
-border guards ready to shoot on sight

the open borders policy after 2003 helped many christians to leave iraq easier, and the worsening situation in areas where christians concentrated exarcabated the situation further (baghdad and mosul).

in fact, both as a total number, and as a % of their community, the christians suffered only slightly more than kurds in the aftermath of the 2003 war. The worst sufferers were undoubtedly the Yazidi community, the Sabean community and shia arabs,followed by sunni arabs. But the above mentioned groups don't have "external agitators" to spread much news about them like the christians (the christian world) and kurds (perceived to be allied to the US). The arabic media/politicans of course drum up the case for sunni-arabs in Iraq, but nobody gives a t*ss about the yazidis and mandeans who suffered the most.


Your explanation does seem reasonable and detailed, but I am a bit concerned about the claim that "It's not religious cleansing, they're just emmigrating!".

And yes, what you said about the Yazidis and other minorities makes perfect sense. But if someone were to champion their cause, I wonder who it could be? Maybe Kurdish interest groups in Western countries(I'm sure their is such a thing)?

This incident is notable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Qahtaniya_bombings

khukuri
05-27-2009, 10:59 PM
Chickens, huh?

I do not know about this. I'll look into it.

Wtf are they trying to do, rid their entire country of farm animals?

In any case, whatever the govt's intention the Copts will suffer as a result.





Government incompetence, not exactly unseen before...there was a thread about this here before. Look it up.



What makes the Christian Iraqis unique is that 40% of the refugees getting kicked out of Iraq are actually Christian...Everyone is suffering, but the EXISTANCE of the Christians(and other small religions) is being threatened.


Do you have anything to back up that claim, 40%? It looks extremely dubious for someone like me ... just the amount of people leaving compared to amount of Christians makes that number not add up. Or did you mean that 40% of the Christians are leaving.

As for the rest I agree with Sheytan el Kebir. The real sufferers are the Yazidi community and the Sabean community, Sheytan didn't mention the Turkomen who are having problems with kurds as well.

People are leaving in Iraq in droves due two reasons. Partly is fleeing the conflict zone if you are directly affected, ie cleansing etc and partly it is leaving because its not a good place to live. Just looking at a certain amount of leavers from one community doesn't mean that that specific community is suffering more than another one. It could simply mean that they have easier to leave. One such example is in Jordan where loads of rich iraqis are going, loads of them come hardly from the most affected groups.

khukuri
05-27-2009, 11:03 PM
Shia and Sunni are positioning themselves at the expense of the minorities.

Only the Kurds have the cojones to stand up for themselves.


Wrong, more than any other group the kurds are positioning themselves at the expense of others.


They are kicking out turkomen and Arabs who lived in cities originally, IE pre saddam influx of arabs. You can read an official interview with the Iraqi kurdish minister for these affairs (forgot his name). He claimed, in his own words which I heard, that its ok to kick out arabs, even those who lived in the towns before saddam sent more people, in order to make up for what Saddam did. I was gobsmacked when he did it, couldnt believe my eyes.

They are doing the exact thing that Saddam did under his reigns.


Shias and Sunnis more like a stalemate, taking out each other and losing as much as they gain.