Swedish Pirates to Europe? [Archive]

Lau

05-27-2009, 07:32 AM

</SPAN>http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/international/nyhetssidor/artikel.asp?nyheter=1&programid=2054&Artikel=2804045 (http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/international/nyhetssidor/artikel.asp?nyheter=1&programid=2054&Artikel=2804045)

p-)

The latest figures show that the Swedish Pirate Party may reach the EU Parliament. In a new survey by research company Synovate for newspaper Dagens Nyheter, the Pirate Party received 5.1% of voter support.
The support for the Pirate Party has rocketed following the recent file sharing debate in Sweden. In 2006, the Pirate Party got 0.6% in the election for the Swedish Parliament.

The head of the Pirate Party’s Stockholm district, Jan Lindgren, told Radio Sweden at the Pirate Bay Trial judgment that he was confident that the guilty verdict would mean more Pirate Party votes.
“People know that it isn’t enough to listen to ordinary politicians in order to make file sharing legal. The only way to change that is to vote us in – both in the EU and the Swedish parliament”, he said.
According to the survey, many Pirate Party supporters seem to be young men. Among 19-29 year olds the Pirate Party is the second largest party. Among 30-44 year olds it drops to fourth place. Most new supporters seem to have come from the red-green camp, according to Dagens Nyheter.
The survey also showed that the support for the Moderates was 29.7 % and the Social Democrats got 29.2 %. According to Dagens Nyheter, it will be the first time since 1914 that the Social Democratic party is not the largest in a national election, if this is mirrored in the result on the day. However, the survey also shows that 54% of those asked could not yet say how they would vote.
1496 people took part in the survey which was carried out between 20 and 27 April. The European election will be held on 7 June.
Swedish political parties have to gain over 4% of the vote to be guaranteed representation in the European and national parliaments.

Apart from their name, this party is a disaster!

I'm all for file sharing, but not copyrighted material, and these guys don't know how to differentiate.

Hopefully the Swedes will use their common sense on this one.

Breerman

05-27-2009, 07:44 AM

Lau

05-27-2009, 08:19 AM

Copyright is dead

So we should just accept that and not prosecute those who steal?

Do you want to forever abolish the right to own your own material, if you choose to use CD/DVD or any other electronic media as storage?

Jaeger07

05-27-2009, 08:28 AM

So we should just accept that and not prosecute those who steal?

Quoted for stupidity.

Copyright infringements are not theft. Stop making a fool of yourself.

See this informative picture for guidance:

http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg

toki

05-27-2009, 08:36 AM

Quoted for stupidity.

Copyright infringements are not theft. Stop making a fool of yourself.

See this informative picture for guidance:

http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg

Of yourse it s theft, since the value of a copied idea (for example) or a photograph plummets sometimes against zero. The worth of your work might be stolen, even though you still have the data.

hsh2

05-27-2009, 08:36 AM

Quoted for stupidity.

Copyright infringements are not theft. Stop making a fool of yourself.

See this informative picture for guidance:

http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg

I really like the ads on DVD's. "Downloading a song for personal use is like stealing a car. You wouldn't steal a car would you?"

Haha ok then...most stupid talking point ever, and there's a bit of competition for that title.

Jaeger07

05-27-2009, 08:44 AM

Of yourse it s theft, since the value of a copied idea (for example) or a photograph plummets sometimes against zero. The worth of your work might be stolen, even though you still have the data.

If you belive that i suspect your brain is actually oatmeal. The legal consequences of theft are totaly different from that of copyright-infringement. The sooner people like you start to differentiate, the better for all of us.

Xaito

05-27-2009, 09:01 AM

Apart from their name, this party is a disaster!

I'm all for file sharing, but not copyrighted material, and these guys don't know how to differentiate.

Hopefully the Swedes will use their common sense on this one.

the Pirate party stands for more then just free file sharing - more like for a free internet - which I personally think is much more worth to society then imaginary losses of some music cartel...

toki

05-27-2009, 09:11 AM

The legal consequences of theft are totaly different from that of copyright-infringement.
Tell that to someone who makes a living as a photographer or an author of any kind.
We had a case where technical drawings were copied and used in magazines and websites. You have no clue about the very real consequences of the drop of intellectual property.

Xaito

05-27-2009, 09:25 AM

Tell that to someone who makes a living as a photographer or an author of any kind.
We had a case where technical drawings were copied and used in magazines and websites. You have no clue about the very real consequences of the drop of intellectual property.

the obvious solution to this problem is censoring and/or outlawing magazines and websites!

Basillicus

05-27-2009, 09:38 AM

I really like the ads on DVD's. "Downloading a song for personal use is like stealing a car. You wouldn't steal a car would you?"

Haha ok then...most stupid talking point ever, and there's a bit of competition for that title.

Yeah, but the sad thing is that there's lots of people who buy this cheap propaganda. On average it takes maybe 5 minutes in any piracy related internet discussion before someone comes and makes a retarded point like "piracy is STEALING, do you think it's OK if I smack you in the face and steal your car".

Xaito

05-27-2009, 09:41 AM

toki

05-27-2009, 09:54 AM

the obvious solution to this problem is censoring and/or outlawing magazines and websites!

Magazines who print unlicensed material do get fined heavily for a reason. You know how big the stock photo business is? And how many peopel live from it? Without it, advertising would also get incredibly expensive.

Btw the copyright laws also interfere with competition laws. The dropping of copyright laws seems abit anarcho-communist to me. Brands would die as well.
Consequences, tons of it.

Derbedeu

05-27-2009, 10:30 AM

I hope they pass the threshold and get elected. Speaking personally for myself, I don't see internet piracy as theft. Selling copyright items or passing them off as one's own, is theft. Disseminating it for free with proper accredation isn't. Besides, nearly everyone I know who downloads stuff eventually buys 70-90% of it (whether it's music, movies, etc) since they like it. Some people I know like to have a digital copy of something even though they first legally bought the item (e.g. buying a dvd collection and later downloading it to their laptop illeagally for better portability). And truth be told I have a hard time having any sympathy for companies who effectively screw their own artists even though they charge obscene prices for their merchandise (I mean $30+ for a Blu-ray DVD?!). It also pisses me off to no end that they set restrictions on things you do buy. For example, authorizing only a certain amount of computers for a product, restricting media to specified devices, or having to buy a product again if deleted in order to clear up space on one's hardrive (or even deleted accidentally due to viruses and such). Also, like others have mentioned, the industry simply lags behind in innovation when it comes to the internet (iTunes store came online in 2003, a full 4 years after Napster!).

Morboute

05-27-2009, 10:47 AM

now the question is, have anyone of you even bothered to look up what the Pirate Party is trying to achive?

Im pretty sure most of you haven't.

They don't want to remove copywrite laws, they want to REFORM them.

nimer bortuqaal

05-27-2009, 10:48 AM

The problem is it is theft. You didn't work the long, hard hours putting together that media just to lose sales because said media is being shared. When you buy a car you cannot make a copy of it and put one copy at the summer cabin and another at your sister's house while the original is at home. When you crash you car... you fix or buy another. Obviously you dont make things for a living.

hsh2

05-27-2009, 10:48 AM

Yeah, but the sad thing is that there's lots of people who buy this cheap propaganda. On average it takes maybe 5 minutes in any piracy related internet discussion before someone comes and makes a retarded point like "piracy is STEALING, do you think it's OK if I smack you in the face and steal your car".

Hehe yeah. I wonder what I should do with my ears if I listen to music on a friends ipod or "audibly intercept" a train bench neighbors obnoxiously loud earphones?
Should i pay royalties of some sort? Cut them off? Pray to the allmighty demigods at Sony for pardon?

Besides, nearly everyone I know who downloads stuff eventually buys 70-90% of it (whether it's music, movies, etc) since they like it. Some people I know like to have a digital copy of something even though they first legally bought the item (e.g. buying a dvd collection and later downloading it to their laptop illeagally for better portability). And truth be told I have a hard time having any sympathy for companies who effectively screw their own artists even though they charge obscene prices for their merchandise (I mean $30+ for a Blu-ray DVD?!). It also pisses me off to no end that they set restrictions on things you do buy. Also, like others have mentioned, the industry simply lags behind in innovation when it comes to the internet (iTunes store came online in 2003, a full 4 years after Napster!).

Agree. Frankly I have no sympathy wahtsoever for hollywood or sony bmg and consorts. Not because they screw their "artists" (artists yeeaaaah right) but because they frankly ruin music and cinema in general. I mean you can't tell me that mainstream films/music anno 2008-2009 are of the same "quality" as mainstream films/music 20yrs ago. I went downhill fast and hard...and not just the sheer quality but also the essence of it. Films used to "live" thanks to good actors, good locations, good stories; nowadays ALL that is substituted by CGI bullsh1t.
And iTunes and that stuff can get bent for all I care. It's all nice when you hear mainstream garbage but good luck finding albums by Medieval Folk bands fe.

nimer bortuqaal

05-27-2009, 10:58 AM

I hear this kind of stuff all of the time....big bad companies are screwing us and the artists. Money is like a vote. If you don't like certain companies then don't buy their products and tell you friends not to either. The thing is that there are plenty of others that may feel different from you and prop these same companies up. If you don't like these products or rules that keep others from stealing them... make you own product and give it away for free and see how long you can continue down that road.

Derbedeu

05-27-2009, 10:58 AM

Xaito

05-27-2009, 11:07 AM

Magazines who print unlicensed material do get fined heavily for a reason. You know how big the stock photo business is? And how many peopel live from it? Without it, advertising would also get incredibly expensive.

Btw the copyright laws also interfere with competition laws. The dropping of copyright laws seems abit anarcho-communist to me. Brands would die as well.
Consequences, tons of it.

trivia:
Did you know that all prominent image compression algorithms (like jpeg) are benchmarked with a pirated picture from a playboy centerfold?
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/lennapg/
and it actually was the best sold playboy issue ever? ;)

Delay

05-27-2009, 12:34 PM

I'm wondering if the images and music that download on to my computer after i visit some sites could be considered piracy according to copyright laws.

Vandervahn

05-27-2009, 12:48 PM

I hope they pass the threshold and get elected. Speaking personally for myself, I don't see internet piracy as theft. Selling copyright items or passing them off as one's own, is theft. Disseminating it for free with proper accredation isn't. ...

Nice that your little definition works for you. Problem is, we´re not speaking about a scientific paper, we´re speaking of products that carry value by themselves. Copying that and "properly crediting the author" simply doesnt cut it. All this work has been done, among other things, to make money. And every pirate with every copy is screwing someone out of that money.

And truth be told I have a hard time having any sympathy for companies who effectively screw their own artists even though they charge obscene prices for their merchandise (I mean $30+ for a Blu-ray DVD?!).The publisher/artist relationship is not your concern, and you cannot use it to justify any use of unpaid-for product. Basically, the publisher can set its price as it sees fit. Its you as a customer who decides wether you want to pay for it.

You see, I am not above piracy myself, I get the occasional film and CD from colleagues. But I am not making up some weak excuses for my activities; I know that I am ****ing someone with what I am doing.

...I mean you can't tell me that mainstream films/music anno 2008-2009 are of the same "quality" as mainstream films/music 20yrs ago. I went downhill fast and hard...and not just the sheer quality but also the essence of it. Films used to "live" thanks to good actors, good locations, good stories; nowadays ALL that is substituted by CGI bullsh1t.

THAT, my friend, is 100 percent, "yesteryear everything was better", romanticising bull****. In fact there is a steady increase of "minimum quality" of the products you name that has been apparent over decades and has really been boosted exponentially with the arrival of the digital age.

The prevalence of electronic and digital recording/filming/editing/producing/cutting/etc. technology has not only allowed a higher basic standard but also that more people( =higher variety of talent) have been exposed to said technology, which in the short and long run by the laws of competition will bring forth better artists.

Just because we only remember the good stuff from past times doesnt mean that Moms and Dads cinema and radio wasnt filled with rubbish of the highest degree. And personally, I have zero problems with finding strong character driven films whenever I desire so; I simply dont expect them to have a flashy trailer on Youtube.

Derbedeu

05-27-2009, 01:22 PM

Nice that your little definition works for you. Problem is, we´re not speaking about a scientific paper, we´re speaking of products that carry value by themselves. Copying that and "properly crediting the author" simply doesnt cut it. All this work has been done, among other things, to make money. And every pirate with every copy is screwing someone out of that money.

The publisher/artist relationship is not your concern, and you cannot use it to justify any use of unpaid-for product. Basically, the publisher can set its price as it sees fit. Its you as a customer who decides wether you want to pay for it.

You see, I am not above piracy myself, I get the occasional film and CD from colleagues. But I am not making up some weak excuses for my activities; I know that I am ****ing someone with what I am doing.

THAT, my friend, is 100 percent, "yesteryear everything was better", romanticising bull****. In fact there is a steady increase of "minimum quality" of the products you name that has been apparent over decades and has really been boosted exponentially with the arrival of the digital age.

The prevalence of electronic and digital recording/filming/editing/producing/cutting/etc. technology has not only allowed a higher basic standard but also that more people( =higher variety of talent) have been exposed to said technology, which in the short and long run by the laws of competition will bring forth better artists.

Just because we only remember the good stuff from past times doesnt mean that Moms and Dads cinema and radio wasnt filled with rubbish of the highest degree. And personally, I have zero problems with finding strong character driven films whenever I desire so; I simply dont expect them to have a flashy trailer on Youtube.

Stop being so sanctimonious. Anyone who's ever recorded a videotape of their favorite show on VHS, or like you said has let their friends borrow their stuff (who hasn't ever done this?) can technically be accused of piracy. Who gives a ****. Piracy is pretty low on my list of what's wrong with this world today, and like I said I don't care if the companies lose a couple of millions. They have millions more to spare.

I'm not advocating nor am I excusing piracy. I'm simply stating why piracy is so prevalent. The fact of the matter is that the media industry (movies, music, etc) is severely behind when it comes to technological innovation, particularly distributing their media in a convenient and easy fashion. Instead of attempting to improve their service, and thereby attract more consumers, they chose to find new ways in restricting illegal access. Frankly, in this age of the internet that's ultimately futile and a waste of money: there will always be new ways to pirate stuff (look at the shift from P2P to torrents. Concentrate on the former, and not the latter (in other words put as much effort into their services as they do in their anti-piracy activities), and they may find that piracy will decrease. And copyright laws today are flawed imo.

I agree with your second part though, technology has increased access for many aspiring producers/musicians/directors/etc. Though hueresiech has a point that most of it is garbage, though undoubtedly it seems that way since the industry always loves to promote "musicians" and "artists" such as Britney Spears, preferring to rely on *** to sell instead of real artistic merit (e.g. how many great independent films have trouble securing funding, while films like Generic Brainless Action Movie Sequel always get funded).

hsh2

05-27-2009, 01:24 PM

The prevalence of electronic and digital recording/filming/editing/producing/cutting/etc. technology has not only allowed a higher basic standard but also that more people( =higher variety of talent) have been exposed to said technology, which in the short and long run by the laws of competition will bring forth better artists.

Better artists? So Britney Spears and consorts are better artists than the Talking Heads fe? Slipknot are better artists than Iron Maiden? 50 Cent is a better artist than Gang Starr?

Ok then...

Just because we only remember the good stuff from past times doesnt mean that Moms and Dads cinema and radio wasnt filled with rubbish of the highest degree. And personally, I have zero problems with finding strong character driven films whenever I desire so; I simply dont expect them to have a flashy trailer on Youtube.So you're saying that the mainstream hollywood movies of the 80s and the 2000s are the same in terms of quality? Or are you saying that untalented actors, CGI effects etc have a character and quality of their own and one just has to rely on independent films?

hsh2

05-27-2009, 01:26 PM

I agree with your second part though, technology has increased access for many aspiring producers/musicians/directors/etc. Though hueresiech has a point that most of it is garbage, though undoubtedly it seems that way since the industry always loves to promote "musicians" and "artists" such as Britney Spears, preferring to rely on *** to sell instead of real artistic merit (e.g. how many great independent films have trouble securing funding, while films like Generic Brainless Action Movie Sequel always get funded).

x2

It's a double edged sword. Like the internet: the biggest source of information and misinformation at the same time.

Lau

05-27-2009, 05:55 PM

Quoted for stupidity.

Copyright infringements are not theft. Stop making a fool of yourself.

If you belive that i suspect your brain is actually oatmeal. The legal consequences of theft are totaly different from that of copyright-infringement. The sooner people like you start to differentiate, the better for all of us.

You've got an attitude problem, if you desire to have a conversation with adults, learn simply manners first. If you keep it up, the only fool around here will be you.

Anyway.. Stealing copyrighted material is just that, stealing! If I spend years of my life creating something, and get it copyrighted, I demand people pay for it, since it's my material.

The sooner leeches like you get that, the better for all those who create and not only steal.

Your own lack of talent may be one of the reason why you find it OK to steal copyrighted material, but if you ever (fat chance), took the time and used your talent to create something worth anything, you would change your mind.

mrxyz

05-27-2009, 07:33 PM

Anyway.. Stealing copyrighted material is just that, stealing! If I spend years of my life creating something, and get it copyrighted, I demand people pay for it, since it's my material.

I'm sorry, but the law disagrees with this statement. Theft is a completely different crime and is handled as such. When speaking about law you should use the right terminology. It doesn't matter how wrong it is in your opinion, it won't become theft no matter how many times you repeat that to yourself and in public forums.

Furthermore, the filesharing stance of the Pirate party arises from one of the core values that the Pirate party stands for. In this case, human rights and personal integrity. The consequences of the laws being passed and being considered results in all internet communications being intercepted and listed in on. This is not an acceptable trade to the human right of personal integrity which is even highlighted in the European Convention of Human Rights as well as in the Swedish Constitution.

Free correspondence is a cornerstone of the democratic society and must be protected. Take for example the secrecy of correspondence as it applies for regular letters. This protects individuals from having their personal mail being opened and read. The Pirate party demands that this right is respected on the internet as well.

The Pirate party stands for a reform of copyright law limiting its protection to five years.

Vote Pirate! / Rösta Pirat!

MkH

05-27-2009, 08:21 PM

For every action there's a reaction. The copyright lobbyists and bribed government representatives have labeled a majority of Swedish citizens criminals and now those "criminals" are getting back at them (Goddamn democracy! Always ruining everything!). And I'm going to watch an laugh. There's a saying in Finland that goes "ahneella on paskanen loppu". It translates to "the greedy will have a ****ty ending".

But I don't really think that's going to happen, no. The industry has never been better better; the profits are higher than ever, and John Travolta has still not died of malnutrition. I just hope the success of Piratpartiet will give them something to think about. The entertainment industry has mistaken itself for the king, when it's really the fool. If it wasn't for us, there would be no entertainment industry.

Go Piratpartiet!

Andreas

05-27-2009, 08:28 PM

this thread calls for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xfqkdh5Js4

p-)

I raaaaged at 02:40

Holy crap that was some freaky shi tt

phatmaus

05-27-2009, 08:41 PM

So we should just accept that and not prosecute those who steal?

Do you want to forever abolish the right to own your own material, if you choose to use CD/DVD or any other electronic media as storage?

There should be to completely different Intellectual Property regimes for productive stuff, like patents that actually improve Civilization and the Economy and Non-Productive stuff like entertainment(which is just a way to pleasurably waste time) and doesn't contribute anything to the Economy(and no, the example of of people employed in the movie "industry" doesn't apply, if people spend less money on one form of entertainment, then they can spend more money on other stuff, eg. ski-resorts,shooting and diving for me)

Right now the Entertainment "industry" is pushing through very serious restrictions on out liberties, eg. the three strike-laws that are based on 3 unsubstantiated accusations, all in the name of helping people waste their time more efficiently, while the Chinese are ripping off Western Patents(which does actually hurt the economy), because all our efforts are focused on hunting down teenagers who download their own choice of time-wasters.

Mikhael

05-28-2009, 04:01 AM

Dont steal!! p-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wRxfz_6E7o

mrxyz

05-29-2009, 07:41 AM

According to a new poll by Demoskop the pirate party could get a second mandate in the parliament, with 8.2% of the votes.

Article (in Swedish): http://www.dn.se/fordjupning/europa2009/piratpartiet-far-tva-mandat-i-ny-matning-1.879371

Excellent news. Although this poll ranks the PP higher than other polls, all polls are moving in the right direction and give PP at least one mandate. Now, the important thing is that everybody who say they will vote for PP actually does so!

Vote Pirate! / Rösta Pirat!

jokuvaan

05-29-2009, 08:07 AM

Too many people are working in entertament business and too much money is spend on it. Digital copying is a natural way to balance this distortion.

Best luck for Swedish Pirates.

hsh2

05-29-2009, 08:11 AM

I think the following classic fits in well here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu7VyEPv2Hk

Enjoy:-D

FabeYond

05-29-2009, 10:35 AM

I don't know much about Sweden's pirate party, but in Germany they don't want to get rid of patents or copyrights but instead modify them to fit the current situation.

Morboute

05-29-2009, 05:49 PM

I don't know much about Sweden's pirate party, but in Germany they don't want to get rid of patents or copyrights but instead modify them to fit the current situation.

Just as they want in Sweden.

mrxyz

05-29-2009, 06:03 PM

Just as they want in Sweden.

The Swedish Pirate Party wants to successively abolish the patent system. As well as reform copyright to last for a shorter period, for example 5 years, and only apply to commercial copying.

p-)p-)p-)p-)p-) Vote Pirate! p-)p-)p-)p-)p-)

Lau

05-31-2009, 06:17 AM

Too many people are working in entertament business and too much money is spend on it. Digital copying is a natural way to balance this distortion.

Best luck for Swedish Pirates.

Who are you to decide that? It's called free market..

Breerman

05-31-2009, 06:37 AM

Who are you to decide that? It's called free market..
Its called democracy...

A free market doesnt mean the right for an international copyright mafia to corrupt the political and judicial systems over the world.

mrxyz

05-31-2009, 08:52 AM

Who are you to decide that? It's called free market..

When copying a product is free, the supply is infinite, and the price tends towards zero. p-)

Lau

05-31-2009, 10:25 AM

Its called democracy...

A free market doesnt mean the right for an international copyright mafia to corrupt the political and judicial systems over the world.

So what your saying is, if an author demand to get payed for his work, or an artist for his music, it's considered a mafia that corrupts the political and judicial systems in the world?

How ****ed up does that sound?

Is it because you don't like big companies like BMG, should we put a limit on how big record companies are allowed to become?

When copying a product is free, the supply is infinite, and the price tends towards zero. p-)

Because something is cheap to copy, does not mean its cheap to produce.

Xaito

05-31-2009, 10:59 AM

Is it because you don't like big companies like BMG, should we put a limit on how big record companies are allowed to become?

there was a limit put on Microsoft so why not?

Lau

05-31-2009, 11:13 AM

there was a limit put on Microsoft so why not?

No record companies are close to the size of Microsoft, or the power for that matter. The comparison is no good, thats why.

kosse

05-31-2009, 11:32 AM

Dang, I did not know communism is so popular in Sweden today. I download copyrighted content too from the internet but at least I don't try to make up stupid justifications for such acts.

nimer bortuqaal

05-31-2009, 11:34 AM

Once again I can see that the people who want to steal do not make or do things for themselves. Probably the type of person that just shows up to work, does the minimum, and waits for the paycheck - if they are employed at all. Oh... I'm sorry to sterotype and single out a single demographic.. I shouldn't forget the ones still living at their mommy's house. Once you pay your own bills and spend countless unbillable hours working on something to market, then you might understand. In the meantime, just keep your hand out and wait for free stuff as the world obviously owes you something.

Morboute

05-31-2009, 11:48 AM

nimer bortuqaal

05-31-2009, 12:52 PM

Guess what? I don't care about the party or what they do or do not stand for. What I do care about is international companies that are being robbed. Stealing is stealing no matter how you want to describe it.

BTW, good job with the insult. Another tough guy on the internet. I can guarantee you wouldn't say that to my face and if you had the balls to do it, then you would quickly regret it. Grow up.

ozumn

05-31-2009, 01:08 PM

mrxyz

05-31-2009, 01:11 PM

I don't care about the party or what they do or do not stand for.

Well, it's rather disingenuous to claim that you don't care about what the party stands for and yet bash its members. Let me educate you. Their core principles are protecting personal integrity, protecting democracy and personal freedoms/rights, balancing copyright and stopping private monopolies/patents.

Stealing is stealing no matter how you want to describe it.
Please stop misusing words like this.

p-) Vote Pirate!

tercio67

05-31-2009, 01:11 PM

Mikhael

05-31-2009, 01:15 PM

BTW, good job with the insult. Another tough guy on the internet.

I can guarantee you wouldn't say that to my face and if you had the balls to do it, then you would quickly regret it. Grow up.

Look whos talking. First you talk to others that they are internet though guys then you are talking like one. You know what means hypocrisy ?

And your "save the big corporations" talk makes you just looney...

nimer bortuqaal

05-31-2009, 01:20 PM

The point I am making is that people on the internet like to act quite tough and throw out insults and names, but I bet those same people wouldn't do that in public. That is all I was saying.

Why the anger against the "big corporations"? I am not just talking about big companies - I am also talking about every struggling artist and person with an idea and the willingness to make that idea a reality and try to market it.

Mikhael

05-31-2009, 01:26 PM

The point I am making is that people on the internet like to act quite tough and throw out insults and names, but I bet those same people wouldn't do that in public. That is all I was saying.

say that to my face and if you had the balls to do it, then you would quickly regret it

Do you see the connection ?

About the "pirate party" people wrote you their ideology and how far off you are mistaken about it but you just ignore it.

nimer bortuqaal

05-31-2009, 01:30 PM

Of course I do see the connection and I understand what a hypocrit is. Obviously we are missing each other. Again, alot of people act very tough when they can hide yet act differently in person. For myself, if I can say it on the net then I will say it in person.

BTW, I did read alot about the pirate party. I just chose to disagree with it and state my opinion in more of a black/white way.

one-niner

05-31-2009, 01:47 PM

Most countries' IP laws were written before digital copying (no loss of quality) was possible and before the Internet made copying and bypassing copy protection so accessible.

The truth is that reality has overtaken the laws on the inside - almost everybody does it and nearly no one gets punished. What's the point in stubornly trying to protect laws that don't have any effect?

Lets review the laws and make a system that works - a system where the artists can still make a living and the consumers aren't criminalized en masse without any real consequences.

Xaito

05-31-2009, 03:06 PM

I am also talking about every struggling artist and person with an idea and the willingness to make that idea a reality and try to market it.

I actually get the feeling that "struggling artists" tend get support from internet communities if their work is good - even those who don't ask for money get voluntary donations.
Same thing with music - online shops for mp3's with a fair price tag seem to be booming if I'm not mistaken...
If people don't feel like they're being ripped off they'll buy stuff they like.
For example - I like to import PS3 games from UK because they're usually about 20€ a piece (unless they're some super hits just new on the market) - on the other hand I would never even dream about spending 60-70€ per game, which is the average price for PS3 games in Germany...