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Geezah
05-29-2009, 10:37 AM
after Student Advocates for Concealed Carry of Firearms on Campus

Today we report on a college that has egregiously kicked the First Amendment in the teeth. Student Christine Brashier just wants to form a gun-rights group at the Community College of Allegheny County (CCAC), but she has been censored and threatened with disciplinary action for her efforts. FIRE took up her case as soon as we learned that administrators banned her informational pamphlets, ordered her to destroy all copies of them, interrogated her about her legal activities, and told her that further "academic misconduct" would not be tolerated.

In April, Brashier created pamphlets to distribute to her classmates encouraging them to join her in forming a chapter of the national Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC) organization at CCAC. The handbill states that the group "supports the legalization of concealed carry by licensed individuals on college campuses." She personally distributed copies of the flyer, which identified her as a "Campus Leader" of the effort to start the chapter.

On April 24, Jean Snider, Student Development Specialist at CCAC's Allegheny Campus, summoned Brashier to a meeting that day with Snider and Yvonne Burns, Dean of Student Development. According to Brashier, the deans told Brashier that passing out her non-commercial pamphlets was prohibited as "solicitation." Amazingly, they told Brashier that trying to "sell" other students on the idea of the organization was prohibited. If it is true that trying to "sell" students on an idea is prohibited as a matter of solicitation, virtually the entire enterprise of the college is prohibited. All persuasive speech would have to be pre-approved by the college. This is no way to run a college, and such a rule is wildly, recklessly unconstitutional.

Not only that, CCAC also told Brashier that the college must pre-approve any distribution of literature to fellow students, and that pamphlets like hers would not be approved. The deans (apparently Burns did most of the talking) even insisted that Brashier destroy all copies of her pamphlet.

Brashier reports that she was also interrogated about why she was distributing the pamphlets, whether she owned a licensed firearm and had ever brought it to campus (she has not), whether she carries a concealed firearm off campus, and whether she disagrees with the existing college policy banning concealed weapons on campus.

When Brashier stated that she wanted to be able to freely discuss the college's policy against concealed handguns on campus, she was told to stop doing so without the permission of the CCAC administration. Dean Burns reportedly said, "You may want to discuss this topic but the college does not, and you cannot make us." Brashier was then told to cease all activities related to her involvement with SCCC at CCAC and that such "academic misconduct" would not be tolerated.

We wrote CCAC President Alex Johnson on April 29 about these egregious violations of Brashier's First Amendment speech and association rights. Of course, her free speech in no way constituted solicitation, CCAC is obligated to permit students to distribute literature and may not ban it on the basis of viewpoint or content, and if CCAC recognizes student organizations at all, it must recognize an organization that supports concealed carry on campus. We requested a response by May 13, and CCAC responded only by promising a reply from either CCAC or the Allegheny County Solicitor's office at some "reasonable" future time. Two weeks have passed since that promise, leaving the First Amendment in dire jeopardy at CCAC.

This incident is the worst and latest in a significant trend of punishing students for debating the Second Amendment in the wake of the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings. At Central Connecticut State University, after a student gave a class presentation about concealed firearms on campus, his professor called the police. At Hamline University, a student was suspended, pending a mental health evaluation, after he advocated in an e-mail for concealed weapons on campus. The SCCC chapter at Tarrant County College in Texas has been prohibited, two years in a row, from holding an "empty holster protest." At Lone Star College near Houston, the Young Conservatives of Texas were censored and threatened with de-recognition when they distributed a humorous flyer listing "Top Ten Gun Safety Tips." Lone Star's general counsel suggested that even a "mention of firearms and weapons" is inherently a "material interference" with the school's operations.

Indeed, as FIRE President Greg Lukianoff said, "CCAC has demonstrated a shocking lack of respect for the rights of free speech and free association. Across the country, students are increasingly denied the First Amendment right to debate the Second Amendment. At CCAC, this censorship trend has reached a new low."


Link (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/10650.html)

.................................

Hollis
05-29-2009, 10:42 AM
Not sure if this is similar to California, but CC are under the High School code. Meaning......... 1st Amendment does not fly or if it does it still can be managed like in a High School. Student bodies are much the same as in a HS, they are under guidance of the Administration. The Colleges and Universities are not and the Student bodies are generally incorporated.

If this is the same situation, the states laws on CCs has to be changed.

hell
05-29-2009, 10:57 AM
Ironic when an institution devoted to learning tries to prohibit open discussion. She needs to have as much in hard copy as she can get, especially if it's signed. It looks like she took some notes about times/places/people involved, so she's on the right path. It always surprises me when administration at schools do dumb stuff like this; it's like they are just asking to be sued.

Links to the pamphlet she passed out:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_g6an58evj_E/Sh1utV64kQI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/xwaeOkhaRs4/s1600-h/pamphlet1.bmp

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_g6an58evj_E/Sh1u0e5UdpI/AAAAAAAAAaE/tl3HKx_0NNc/s1600-h/pamphlet2.bmp

The fact that the dean told her to destroy all copies of her own property is just insulting.

While I'd like to use the Constituion to uphold my rights, the Constitution in the US has long since been ignored. The idea behind it being a "living document" is rubbish.

@Hollis: Do you know why CA classifies community colleges like that? Does it have something to do with funding provided to CC's compared to universities?

Dominique
05-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Anyone who thinks colleges are bastions of free speech, is fooling themselves. If you don't tow the party line, you'll be shutdown and ostracized by both the student body and a large portion of the faculty.

Hollis
05-29-2009, 12:13 PM
@Hollis: Do you know why CA classifies community colleges like that? Does it have something to do with funding provided to CC's compared to universities?


I don't know why. I went to both when I lived in So. Cal and found that to be interesting. (days of student rights). As a ex-combat Marine NCO, I found it to be "weird" that I was a kid again under my new pseudo parents.

Geezah
05-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Kent State............:(

LineDoggie
05-29-2009, 05:02 PM
Be prepared for comments comparing this to Banning the Democratic Club on that other campus a few weeks ago.

Here's their Weapons Policy:
http://www.ccac.edu/default.aspx?id=150914

the Student handbook(if anyones interested):
http://www.ccac.edu/files/PDF_Document/1af5c6935606442eb4a17580ff652333.pdf

does have a blurb about the weapons policy

khukuri
05-29-2009, 05:03 PM
I cant stand all these reports of people with opposing view beeing shut off, weather its anarchists or gun right activists. Its pure assholeness

Panchito12
05-30-2009, 05:12 AM
I cant stand all these reports of people with opposing view beeing shut off, weather its anarchists or gun right activists. Its pure assholeness


The problem is that the Anarchist would be praised by the academics, while the gun-right activist are usually labeled "radicals" or "Christian zealots".

Hot Lips
05-30-2009, 01:22 PM
In the wake of having a college aged Richard Poplawski open fire and murder three police officers in Pittsburgh, broaching the subject should be done with control and consideration as many are likely to have their own vision of him roaming the halls with his own legally acquired concealed carry, a huge paranoid chip on his shoulder, issues with respecting authority, and a willingness to use his legally acquired weapon illegally.

Pennsylvania leaves the CC decision up to individual schools.

CCAC will likely allow a forum for discussion, the problem appears to be that she didn't go through proper channels for trying to form a CCAC Chapter of the group on their grounds for the purposes of discussion.

The school needs to take the concerns of others students, area residents, and parents who pay the tuition of students into consideration as well. They don't need a rogue student who doesn't want to follow the rules potentially scaring others on campus.

Geezah
05-30-2009, 01:32 PM
In the wake of having a college aged Richard Poplawski open fire and murder three police officers in Pittsburgh, broaching the subject should be done with control and consideration as many are likely to have their own vision of him roaming the halls with his own legally acquired concealed carry, a huge paranoid chip on his shoulder, issues with respecting authority, and a willingness to use his legally acquired weapon illegally.

Are you painting all those that CCW with the same brush?

There are hundreds of thousands of us and the numbers are growing, while there may be a few instances you cannot restrict all due to a few bad apples.

You've thrown this out there a few times now, and while I feel for the LEOs and their families, we do not all think the same way. About half the group I shoot with are members of LE, from SDs to a firearms trainer for a bg department. I know that considering a few of these guys teach CCW class that they do not think the same way as you.




The school needs to take the concerns of others students, area residents, and parents who pay the tuition of students into consideration as well. They don't need a rogue student who doesn't want to follow the rules potentially scaring others on campus.

Yes, because freedom of speech is scary...........

NineLine
05-30-2009, 01:34 PM
^^^

My tax dollars goes into financial aid that school uses for the development of college youth. I don't give a flying rat's ass what some one's views are but there needs to be a forum to discuss this issue. Whether she went through the appropriate channels is a matter semantics. The administration could have facilitated her needs and told her the proper way to do things. Not out right ban on her and the forum she brings. Now tell me..how many people did she scare? Exactly. Prolife and Planned parenthood people give me the creeps more than any gun rights activists.

Now, if this was a private institution, do whatever, but so long as your taking federal tax dollars, you will obey my constitution and the stipulations that go along with it.

This nation has turned into a bunch of pussies.

Hollis
05-30-2009, 01:48 PM
^^^

My tax dollars goes into financial aid that school uses for the development of college youth. I don't give a flying rat's ass what some one's views are but there needs to be a forum to discuss this issue. Whether she went through the appropriate channels is a matter semantics. The administration could have facilitated her needs and told her the proper way to do things. Not out right ban on her and the forum she brings. Now tell me..how many people did she scare? Exactly. Prolife and Planned parenthood people give me the creeps more than any gun rights activists.

Now, if this was a private institution, do whatever, but so long as your taking federal tax dollars, you will obey my constitution and the stipulations that go along with it.

This nation has turned into a bunch of pussies.


From the article; "Brashier was then told to cease all activities related to her involvement with SCCC at CCAC and that such "academic misconduct" would not be tolerated."

She was advised not to continue and what the policies were, but continued. Also how the article is written show bias. I guess to get people to over react.


The way gun owners looses creditability with "others" is articles like this IMHO. Let's get everyone all inflames and react emotionally......... Yeah that helps. The the anti-gun alarmists will respond with the same kind of articles. In the long run, gun owners are the losers.

Hot Lips
05-30-2009, 02:51 PM
Are you painting all those that CCW with the same brush?

You've thrown this out there a few times now, and while I feel for the LEOs and their families, we do not all think the same way. About half the group I shoot with are members of LE, from SDs to a firearms trainer for a bg department. I know that considering a few of these guys teach CCW class that they do not think the same way as you.

Yes, because freedom of speech is scary...........

I've "thrown this out there a few times" because it's a valid observation in light of repeated attempts to pretend Richard Poplawski's, Josh Cartwright's, Joel Atkin's, etc somehow don't exist in attempts to portray a CC permit as some form of unquestionable halo of virtue for the holder.

I basically said, what you just did. We do not all think the same way. Therefore the college does have a duty to proceed in a manner that respects the feelings of all it's students, parents, and neighbors.

No one said "freedom of speech is scary", but you. Students roaming the halls with guns can be legitimately so though, even when they've acquired them legally. I recognize that in the wake of the Poplawski incident, the college needs to broach that subject in an organized and considerate manner. Apparently she didn't follow the rules for trying to organize a discussion group nor solicit membership within their policies and that is what is being addressed.

Hot Lips
05-30-2009, 03:02 PM
The administration could have facilitated her needs and told her the proper way to do things. Not out right ban on her and the forum she brings.

They told her the proper way to do things in their policies which she opted not to follow. They could not facilitate her needs until they became aware of them, which was after she started soliciting participation and breaking school policies which sparked questions throughout that campus. Did they "ban" her or her forum? Or ask her to stop breaking the rules until they've had an opportunity to assess the situation and move forward in an appropriate manner.

Hot Lips
05-30-2009, 09:10 PM
"We are not blocking the formation of any group," Hoovler said. "The student is free to go through the same procedures to set up an organization that any other student has to go through."


http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/20/2009/05/29/320x240/christybrashier.jpg



A CCAC student says officials at the college have barred her from organizing a group that supports the right to carry concealed weapons on campus.

Christa Brashier doesn't think the campus is safe.

Brashier, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, says she started passing out brochures for the group but the administration ordered her to stop.

The school says she can organize a group, but she can't carry a gun on campus and she can't use the CCAC name in what the school calls solicitations.

The administration says the campus is safe and has the data to back it up.

Because several student and gun rights organizations have now come to the defense of Brashier, CCAC has referred the matter to the county solicitor.