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Kampfbaer
05-31-2009, 04:30 AM
FAMILY MINISTER VS. FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Anti-Child ****ography Law Flounders
Germany's family minister wants a law blocking Web sites that contain child ****ography. But critics say the law could be used to censor just about anything -- and that it wouldn't be effective in the first place.

Von der Leyen proposes setting up an office in the Federal Office of Criminal Investigation to determine whether or not sites should be blocked. Lists would then be sent to Internet service providers, which would be responsible for blocking the content.

The list would contain an estimated 1,500 sites. Von der Leyen says blocking them could derail 450,000 hits a day. The personal data and ISP addresses of people trying to access blocked sites would not be captured.

The family minister has long been an advocate of legal controls over Internet sites that distribute child ****ography. "My goal is to combat child abuse at all levels, including pictures on the Internet," von der Leyen said in an interview with SPIEGEL ONLINE. "So-called 'access blocking' is just part of our overall plan to fight child ****ography at all levels."

The bill would be the first time in the history of post-war Germany that police would be granted the authority to determine what can and cannot be shown by the mass media. Right now, the legislation doesn't call for any supervision of the proposed agency.

Opponents of the bill say the proposal threatens the freedom of the Internet, and that blocks on Web sites and other censorship measures are easily bypassed and ineffective. Thus far, almost 100,000 people have signed a petition against the measure, twice what the law requires to force a discussion in German parliament. One fear is that the list, once established, could be used to censor other sites. Opponents also argue that blocking Web sites is ineffective against child ****ographers, who tend to distribute material through e-mail, peer-to-peer systems and chatrooms, all of which are much harder to police.

Social Democratic parliamentarian Gregor Amann said on Wednesday that he doubted the bill would succeed due to concerns over its threats to personal freedoms. "Since I know many of my colleagues in the SPD share my opinion on this question, at this point I would say that this bill will either not pass in this legislative period or will be dramatically changed," Amann wrote in a post to the Web site Abgeordnetenwatch.de.

The implementation of the law has some odd features -- critics have homed in on the fact that the list would only be refreshed on weekdays as a major loophole. But von der Leyen cites studies from countries that already have a ban in place showing that most searches for child ****ography take place between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m. -- on weekdays. "On the weekends almost nothing is going on," von der Leyen told SPIEGEL ONLINE. "That's when offenders are with their families."

agc -- with reporting by Frank Patalong and Hilmar Schmundt
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,627447,00.html

PeterRJG
05-31-2009, 04:52 AM
Sounds like Germany's minister and Australia's Stephen Conroy are in bed together.

Violet Fashion by Mindy
05-31-2009, 04:57 AM
Haha reckon.

See Australia leads the way! We don't follow anyone.

kosse
05-31-2009, 05:01 AM
We already have this exactly same law in Finland. The consequences:

-the most of the websites in the list don't have anything to do with child ****ography
-the list is secret and can't be monitored by any impartial party/authority
-a website that was critical of the web censorship also ended up on the list
-the guy who is the webmaster of the aforementioned website took the case to court and was told that he can't complain about being on the list
-paedophiles can still access the real kiddie **** because it's well hidden and they use Tor and proxies anyway
-Finland no longer is a rechtsstaat, hopefully eu courts can fix this

A good read by the Finnish critic of web censorship who got censored himself:
http://lapsi****o.info/english-2008-02-15.html
Effi.org pnotice about the case:
http://www.effi.org/julkaisut/tiedotteet/lehdistotiedote-2008-02-12-en.html

LRPV
05-31-2009, 05:07 AM
This might be counter-productive. A better outcome could be achieved by giving police paedophile hunters the resources that would be sunk into ineffective censorship. Australia has had some good kills when it comes to hunting rock-spiders. Our recent legislation covering foreign contact with minors has been a success.

kosse
05-31-2009, 05:09 AM
This might be counter-productive. A better outcome could be achieved by giving police paedophile hunters the resources that would be sunk into ineffective censorship..


Exactly. It was found out in Finland that the police hadn't even contacted the authorities in other countries where child **** sites were hosted. Not even when it was going in EU countries. Where's police cooperation? They just add sites to the list without addressing the real problem at all!

Eztyga
05-31-2009, 05:30 AM
It won't work, they have already abandoned the censorship scheme here.

tercio67
05-31-2009, 05:38 AM
In the Netherlands;

Police to infiltrate child **** networks

Published: Saturday 30 May 2009 11:33 UTC
Last updated: Saturday 30 May 2009 15:45 UTC

Police are going to infiltrate child **** rings by offering ****ographic pictures and films of children. A police spokesperson confirmed that the Council of Chief Superintendents is seeking to use all the special powers it has to crack down on child **** producers and users. Paedophelia websites often require users to provide ****ographic images before allowing them to enter the site. The spokesperson stressed that all such operations are conducted after consultations with the public prosecutor's office.

Police will also increase its efforts to improve the way it registers and stores all ****ographic images it finds on sites and seizes during raids. All stills, clips and movies will be stored at a central facility and exchanged with other departments. This should help police detectives and justice agencies identify and track both offenders and victims.

In an agreement reached in September 2008 with the justice ministry, internet providers pledged to help trace and block child **** sites.

A national hotline for the prevention of child ****, which works together with the police, receives some 6,000 calls per year. Around 200 of these cases are referred to the police, with half of these resulting in prosecution.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/zijlijn/6321983/Police-to-infiltrate-child-****-networks

Invisigoth
05-31-2009, 07:47 AM
This might be counter-productive. A better outcome could be achieved by giving police paedophile hunters the resources that would be sunk into ineffective censorship.

x2 completely useless effort. Give the money to the police, better investment.

Scriptable
05-31-2009, 08:20 AM
We already have this exactly same law in Finland. The consequences:

-the most of the websites in the list don't have anything to do with child ****ography

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation." - Adolf Hitler.

Godwined!

DanteXavier
05-31-2009, 04:06 PM
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation." - Adolf Hitler.

Godwined!

Well played, sir.

NUCKINFUTS
05-31-2009, 05:24 PM
I was watching **** the other day and one of the advertisements to another **** site had what looked like a 12 year old girl. It's disgusting how **** sites try to lure you to their sites using women who look younger than they actually are.

Ulytau
05-31-2009, 05:27 PM
Abusing the childs what kind of Freedom of Speech too ?

LineDoggie
05-31-2009, 05:30 PM
Sounds like Germany's minister and Australia's Stephen Conroy are in bed together.

Both Sprechen Zie........

Scriptable
05-31-2009, 10:17 PM
I was watching **** the other day and one of the advertisements to another **** site had what looked like a 12 year old girl. It's disgusting how **** sites try to lure you to their sites using women who look younger than they actually are.
You are disgusted because the women used to lure you are not as young as they appear in the advertising?

DanteXavier
06-01-2009, 02:50 AM
You are disgusted because the women used to lure you are not as young as they appear in the advertising?

Lol, well played once again, sir! I don't see the issue with girls in advertisements who just look young. I really can't see what issue one would take so long as the girl isn't actually underaged.

Kilgor
06-01-2009, 04:10 AM
Haha reckon.

See Australia leads the way! We don't follow anyone.

no civilized country blocks /b/

Australia should be ashamed of its self

PeterRJG
06-01-2009, 04:15 AM
no civilized country blocks /b/

Australia should be ashamed of its self

Jeez, I just checked /b/ then to make sure it wasn't blocked. You had me worried there for a sec

Wait, what?

Kilgor
06-01-2009, 04:42 AM
Jeez, I just checked /b/ then to make sure it wasn't blocked. You had me worried there for a sec

Wait, what?

/b/ is on the internet filter block list, if your unlucky enough that your ISP is trying it out.

Walter Sobchak
06-01-2009, 03:50 PM
The first step in taking one's liberty is doing something fairly innocuous, "for the common good"...

MkH
06-01-2009, 06:50 PM
The reason why this works so well, is because the pedophiles mainly use http-sites.







...no, not really. But it does not matter, because they are not planning on preventing child ****ography anyway. What they are doing, is building an effective system to censor people with wrong opinions.