The Japanese invasion in Russia (1918–1922). [Archive]

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Bachelor

06-01-2009, 10:50 AM

The Japanese invasion in Russia (1918–1922).
Interesting propaganda pictures. And very strange or there are more false.
What do you think who was Japan enemies in Siberia? It were strong German-Austrian Armies ! And what about Russian in Siberia? They waited and needed of Japanese heroes and loved them... The Japanese soldiers have given freedom to Russian in Siberia... They have saved Russian from Germans.

1. Japanese Army defeated The German-Austrian Army near Usuri Siberia. (German-Austrian ????)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1604/23574545.jpg

2. Japanese Army occupied Khabarovsk, Amur fleet surrendered.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4754/29186800.jpg

3. Japanese Army occupied Blagoveshensk. (German-Austrian POW)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2913/64090329.jpg

4. The battle of Ussuri. Siberia. Capitan Kenomi died in the battle fighting. (Again We see German-Austrian soldiers)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1665/99198285.jpg

5. The Japanese Cavalry advanced furiously in storm.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8929/99570671.jpg

6. Furious fighting at Amur. (I don't see enemy. May bee it pursuit by trains? Cool action!)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7074/47103103.jpg

7. The landing of The Japanese Army (by ????) in Vladivostok. (We see Russian people running and loving to Japanese soldiers - Bhahahahahahaha!!!!)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5527/42793608.jpg

8. Camping of The Expeditionary Army in Siberia.(Where are lovely Americans?)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2438/12617319.jpg

9. The Marsh of The Japanese Army in Vladivostok city. (We see strong, bravura, high and harmonious Japanese soldiers... We see happy Russian... Lovely!!!!)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8205/72763198.jpg

10. The Japanese Cavalry attacking the enemies... (Again We see German-Austrian soldiers)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9281/82453583.jpg

11. Starting of The Head-Quarters of The Combind Army in the Siberia.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/627/54948032.jpg

12... Bla-bla-bla...

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2574/32065669.jpg

13. Our Cavalry occupied Khabarovsk and March-Pait Tisk Place of the enemies Jan-Boats. (Only on that picture We see Russian Imperial Army. They have beards and moustaches..., and Russian uniform!!! What???? Cool fairy tale!)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3734/28638121.jpg

14. ......

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8895/47064019.jpg

15. .....

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6430/81691207.jpg

16. Our Army attacks from sky, water and shire, and repulsed enemy of Siberia. ( They killed Kenny again!!!!!)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/372/29426694.jpg

SBL

06-01-2009, 12:44 PM

Great prints. Thanks for posting these.

goat89

06-01-2009, 01:22 PM

Very interesting! Thx!

a_very_ex_STAB

06-01-2009, 01:27 PM

How on earth did a German/Austrian army get to Siberia?????? and what were they doing there?

Seek

06-01-2009, 01:38 PM

great propaganda pieces...

Soldat_Américain

06-01-2009, 01:47 PM

How on earth did a German/Austrian army get to Siberia?????? and what were they doing there?
Yes I am equally confused.

Mormaeglin

06-01-2009, 01:52 PM

Wow! fantasy ,) look closely I think that I saw orcs there or maybe even a troll bwahaha (or rather mech, all in all it is Japanese propaganda ) :D great find!

tercio67

06-01-2009, 01:59 PM

Propaganda and stereotypes go hand in hand, therefore the "generic foreigners".

What image comes to your mind when someone says Japan?

Xaito

06-01-2009, 02:03 PM

What image comes to your mind when someone says Japan?

Panty vending-machines!!!

Skutatos

06-01-2009, 02:04 PM

What image comes to your mind when someone says Japan?

Japan...

What are you trying to say?

tercio67

06-01-2009, 02:11 PM

Japan...

What are you trying to say?

Answer the question and you will have your answer....

or; I mean what is your stereotype of Japan

Holmes85

06-01-2009, 02:51 PM

How on earth did a German/Austrian army get to Siberia?????? and what were they doing there?

I can up with some possible/theoretical conclusions, with one being propaganda (portraying military superiority over other European nations). Another is that there may have been a few German/Austrian officers and soldiers but there numbers increased through embellishment and storytelling, which may have influenced the artist. As for why they may have been there, it is possible they were just studying the battles as a way to gain insights into strategies and tactics current being employed on the battlefield and their effectiveness.

Remember I'm just taking an educated guess by employing what knowledge I have about that time period.

NowPlaying

06-01-2009, 03:04 PM

To my knowledge there were some Hungarian and Czechoslovak troops in Siberia during Russian civil war but these posters look like some early WW1 fantasy creations.

SBL

06-01-2009, 03:12 PM

How on earth did a German/Austrian army get to Siberia?????? and what were they doing there?
It wasn't unusual for military prints of that era to take a few...liberties.

My guess is, rather than "confuse" the public with the complex details of the Civil War, the printmakers opted to label them as "German-Austrian"- the known and accepted enemy. I'm sure to your average Japanese of that era, one Gaijin was more-or-less the same as another.

-edit-
Sorry Tercio, I missed your post.

tercio67

06-01-2009, 03:15 PM

Skutatos

06-01-2009, 04:21 PM

Answer the question and you will have your answer....

or; I mean what is your stereotype of Japan

You are assuming I have a stereotypical view of the japanese. Living and working in Washington State, I interact with them on an almost daily basis(and I think any other residents of western washington on this forum can attest to that as well).

Bachelor

06-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Grahamr117

06-01-2009, 04:48 PM

LOL payback
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria

SBL

06-01-2009, 05:00 PM

. They were the Ally for Russian Imperial Army against Red Army.... But on the thirteenth picture the Japanese Army fighting against Russian Imperial Army... It's absurdity of the Japanese propagation (like about German-Austrian Army in Siberia).
Only absurd to someone who's a stickler for detail, I guess.
The lithographers probably had easiest access to resources dating from the Russo-Japanese war- it's not like they could google 'Bolshevik uniforms'. I'm pretty sure it didn't make any difference to the target-audience.

Ronin1985

06-01-2009, 05:17 PM

In 1918 the Austrian Empire ceased to exists, so i really don't think there were Austrian troops in Russia.

Bachelor

06-01-2009, 05:25 PM

Only absurd to someone who's a stickler for detail, I guess.
The lithographers probably had easiest access to resources dating from the Russo-Japanese war- it's not like they could google 'Bolshevik uniforms'. I'm pretty sure it didn't make any difference to the target-audience.

May be... And they have shown hated the German-Austrian Army... http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/haha.gif

Bachelor

06-01-2009, 05:44 PM

Red Army (GPY) uniform 1922....

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5791/1922fu.jpg

sardukar

06-01-2009, 05:53 PM

where did you find these postcards?

sup_tech

06-01-2009, 07:04 PM

TORA

06-01-2009, 08:50 PM

Thanks for posting such a beautiful material, these kind of propaganda printes/volumes.
A lot of material in Japan is still relatively easy to find, solely speaking of Kanda street in Tokyo is an area full of bookshops with a lot of original material from that period and the World War 2, these kind of volumes/prints were published for celebrate the Japanese expansionism and it's victories in Korea, China ect ect.
The grandfather of my girl possess several books with this kinds of prints, one on the conquests of 1930's in China and one regarding the Imperial Japanese Navy also in the 1930's when was one of the most powerful and largest on the earth.
Probably back to that time was a way to inform the reader as photographs on such subjects were not common.

Thanks again for posting such material regarding the solely and true power of the East

Eternal Japan !!! woot

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4754/29186800.jpg

tercio67

06-02-2009, 02:48 AM

You are assuming I have a stereotypical view of the japanese. Living and working in Washington State, I interact with them on an almost daily basis(and I think any other residents of western washington on this forum can attest to that as well).

If you are human you have a stereotipical view of just about everything, the only way this view is supplanted is by knowledge of the subject.
(I never said Japanese btw, I said Japan. And I asked this in relation to the propaganda showing 'stereotipicaly uniformed foreigners' by a Japanese artist.)

So specialy for you, what comes to your mind thinking of the dark ages?
Or do you have personal knowledge of that too....

NowPlaying

06-02-2009, 03:02 AM

No way, really?! And this SOBs have guts to complain that the soviets occupied their territories and later send them to Siberia. That's some payback for you. rofl
Retard. New bolshevik russia wanted to make us "soviet republic" just like Ukarine and Caucasus already in 1919. Its only natural that we fought back.

Hukatus

06-02-2009, 03:31 AM

tercio67

06-02-2009, 05:20 AM

that's bs. most of these armies have never been fighting in siberia.
this list contains some of the countries that fought to gain independence from tzarist empire/soviet russia. the fighting took place at the borders of these countries not in siberia. how on earth could small nations like baltics send their newly formed and ill equipped armies thousands of kilometers away across the russia to siberia? thats ridiculous claim.

It nowhere says they sent an army, it is merely a list of all non-Russian nations that were involved. It covers the 4 year period of 1918 to 1922.
If they only sent even one platoon or a single observer, it means they 'participated'. A few of those nations only came in existence after 1918, it stands to reason they did not send divisions. The total number of foreign troops during those 4 years is estimated at 100 000, at any given time there would have been less than the total number.

Bachelor

06-02-2009, 11:45 AM

No way, really?! And this SOBs have guts to complain that the soviets occupied their territories and later send them to Siberia. That's some payback for you. rofl

Do you understanding what talk about? http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/fool.gif
And... What territories Soviet occupied in 1918-1922? http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/fie.gif

In fact Expeditionary Army of Canada, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, UK and USA invade in Russia... Not in Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus or some... In native Russian territory.... It was real aggression...
But Red Army has destroyed all aggressors and Expeditionary Army have run from of Russia...

I thought we will talk about the Japanese pictures but some have started talking about history...

For me these Japanese pictures very ridiculous and funny...
First, Japanese have shown that didn't know with whom are at war and who the enemy... It is silly.
Secondly, they have shown and have told the truth that they occupy the Russian territory...
Thirdly, they have shown that they bravely battled but unknown enemies (Germans-Austrians or aliens) have kicked their asses and they have run to Japan... Who these aliens?
Yes! The Red Army has liberated the Russian territory...

For example the US awards for aggression in Russia...

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9356/1467504581lg.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1378/to27thand31stusinfantri.jpg

that's bs. most of these armies have never been fighting in siberia.
this list contains some of the countries that fought to gain independence from tzarist empire/soviet russia. the fighting took place at the borders of these countries not in siberia. how on earth could small nations like baltics send their newly formed and ill equipped armies thousands of kilometers away across the russia to siberia? thats ridiculous claim.

Who has told that they fought in Siberia?

Expeditionary Army consisted of Alliance - Canada, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, UK and USA.... Expeditionary Army had intrusion from different directions on territory of Russia. From Europe, Scandinavia, the Far East, the North, the South, the West, the East.....

The Baltic countries have been occupied by the German-Austrian Army since 1918. They never fought for independence... As in WWII, They have entered volunteers to German-Austrian Army and have gone to kill on the Russian territory......

cmc

06-02-2009, 12:20 PM

a_very_ex_STAB

06-02-2009, 12:22 PM

Do you understanding what talk about? http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/fool.gif
And... What territories Soviet occupied in 1918-1922? http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/fie.gif

In fact Expeditionary Army of Canada, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, UK and USA invade in Russia... Not in Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus or some... In native Russian territory.... It was real aggression...
But Red Army has destroyed all aggressors and Expeditionary Army have run from of Russia...

Just out of interest can you point me to a link that describes the destruction of the vicious imperialist British Army by the heroic Bolsheviks?

IIRC the British army only went there to Archangel (and I think Odessa) to ensure that British military supplies sent to Russia in WW1 did not end up in the hands of the Bolsheviks or the Germans.

SBL

06-02-2009, 01:02 PM

In fact Expeditionary Army of Canada, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, UK and USA invade in Russia... Not in Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus or some... In native Russian territory.... It was real aggression...
But Red Army has destroyed all aggressors and Expeditionary Army have run from of Russia... I think you're forgetting that there was a Civil War on-- the purpose of the expedition was to support the Whites and squelch the Bolsheviks. Excepting the Japanese and possbily the Baltic States, the aim was not to conquer or divide Russian territory. I don't think any of the Western powers at that point were in the position to be carving up the Russian Empire.

For me these Japanese pictures very ridiculous and funny...
First, Japanese have shown that didn't know with whom are at war and who the enemy... It is silly.
Secondly, they have shown and have told the truth that they occupy the Russian territory...
Thirdly, they have shown that they bravely battled but unknown enemies (Germans-Austrians or aliens) have kicked their asses and they have run to Japan... Who these aliens?
Yes! The Red Army has liberated the Russian territory...

Well, as I was trying to infer earlier, such prints were not inteded to be particularly informative or accurate, their purpose was to be entertaining to look at and maybe generate some 'rah-rah' feelings- like so many comic books or TV shows.

Connaught Ranger

06-02-2009, 01:18 PM

For example the US awards for aggression in Russia. . .

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9356/1467504581lg.jpg
1. Is in fact an example of the Inter-Allied Victory Medal of World War 1, this the American version with clasp RUSSIA:- For any service in European Russia (Approx' number entitled - 9,000).

The same medal & ribbon was awarded for service in World War 1.

Short History:-

Shortly after signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, the Allies began to seriously consider intervention into European Russia through the northern gateway of Archangel located twenty-five miles from the White Sea on the Dvina River.The Allies reasoned that securing a portion of the northern line of communication to Moscow would encourage counterrevolutionary forces in toppling the Bolshevik central government.
In addition, an Allied presence was necessary to protect the vast quantity of military supplies stockpiled in Archangel. Previously provided for the Eastern Front, these supplies were being siphoned to the Bolsheviks .
The Allied force would also be available to counter a German division in Finland should it attempt to seize Murmansk or Archangel for a submarine base. Moreover, it was argued that with Allied support those echelons of the Czech Legion still in European Russia could be evacuated through Murmansk or Archangel, considerably faster than Vladivostok. Finally the British were particularly anxious thwart the Bolsheviks because of fears the proletariat revolution might spread to India.

On the 2nd May 1918, the Allied Supreme War Council approved the formation of an Allied force under British command for deployment to North Russia. The Allies in North Russia eventually included beside the British and Americans contingents from France and Canada plus White Russian volunteers and a few Poles, Serbians, and Italians. The American commitment to this force was to be an infantry regiment drawn from the Western Front.On the 30th July 1918, an Allied seaborne force of 1,500 troops, less the American infantry departed from Murmansk for Archangel. An Allied foothold had been prieviously established in Murmansk by British marines who, prior to the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, were welcomed by the local Soviet as a check against possible incursion by German forces in Finland. By the 2nd of August, the Allied force had routed the Bolshevicks, secured Archangel, and established a sympathetic provisional government.

The American Northern Russia Expeditionary Force (N.R.E.F.) joined the Allies at Archangel on the 4th of September. This force consisted of the 399th Infantry Regiment, one battalion of the 310th Engineers, the 377th Field Hospital, and the 377th Ambulance Company, all units of the 85th Division and formed with recruits from Michigan and Winconsin. It has been noted that General Pershing selected units from the 85th because it was a new arrival in England and therefore conveniently located for deployment, and the 339th in particular because its commander, Colonel George Evans Stewart, had served in Artic Alaska.

During mid-February 1919, President Wilson authorised the formation of two rail-road companies from the Transportation Corps in France to assist in the operation and maintenance of that portion of the Murmansk-Petrograd rail line under Allied control. A total of 720 men were selected to form the 167th and 168th Railroad Companies with the 168th arriving at Murmansk first on the 25th March 1919.

After securing Archangel, the primary objectives of the Allies were to take Vologda 400 miles due south by rail at the juncture of the east-west Trans-Siberian Railway, and Kotlas located 500 miles southeast on the Dvina River and connected by a spur line to Viatka on the Trans-Siberian. By capturing Vologda, the Bolsheviks would be denied a line of communication to the north; and from Kotlass, the Allies intended to join forces with the Czech Legion when it arrived at Viatka.

Arching from the Dvina River to the Archangel-Vologda rail line is the Emsta River, which served as a natural barrier to Bolshevik movement northward except at the Kodish where the Emsta could be crossed. Further south, the route along another tributary, the Vaga River, could be used by the Bolsheviks to intersect the Allies at the Dvina. To protect the rear of the forward elements on the rail line and at the Dvina, the Allies moved to take Kodish and the towns on the Vaga River. To the west of the Archangel-Vologda line, an Allied colum was to secure an advanced postion on the north-south Inega River. Later in the campaign, a small force was sent along the Pinega River to capture Karogara and guard against attack on Archangel from the northeast.

By mid-October 1918, the Allies realised they lacked the forces to achieve their objectives whereas the Bplshevils were gaining in strength. Kodish would be briefly held, but Vologda and Kotlas would never be taken. The Czech Legion, whose support was the raison d'etre for the Allied intervention, did not advance firther than Perm, over 500 rail miles from Kotlas.In mid-January 1919, the Bolsheviks launched an offensive, which forced the Allies evacuate the Vaga River from Nijni Gora, the point of deepest penetration, to nearly the Dvina River. On the 16th of February, President Wilson decided to withdraw the Americans when weather conditions permitted. However on the 17th March a large Bolshevik force took Bolshie-Ozerki which lies between the Onega River and the Archangel-Vologda rail line. Bolshie-Ozerki had to be retaken because from there the Allies on the railroad could be attacked from the rear at Obozerskaya. After fierce fighting, the Bolsheviks disengaged from the battle on the 5th of April and abandoned Bolshie-Ozerki. Later in April, British replacements and White Russian units organised by the provisional government began relieving the Americans who retired to archangel. On the 5th of August, the last elements of the NREF departed Archangel followed by the British one month later.Over extended, unable to rally the anti-Bolsheviks, and lacking the clear purpose necessary to commit the massive force required to effectively combat mounting Bolshevik superiority, the Allied intervention could not be sustained.

I will add more info on the SIBERIA bar later.

Connaught Ranger.

Winger

06-03-2009, 12:40 AM

What? No Godzilla in the background?

Godzilla, or it didn't happen.

Akril

06-03-2009, 04:10 AM

I just have watched anime which action occurs in kinda my city.
Japanese have zero clue what Russia is even now, at the time of Google and Wikipedea.
What to say about the beginning of 20th century.

Connaught Ranger

06-03-2009, 04:39 AM

For example the US awards for aggression in Russia...

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1378/to27thand31stusinfantri.jpg

2. Inter Allied Victory Medal for World War I, U.s. Version with clasp "SERBIA."

For any service in Siberia. (Approx‘ number entitled 9,000.)

Short History:- In the spring of 1918, a sizable Allied force known as the Czech Legion began evacuating from Russia to join with the Allies on the Western Front. Previously on the Eastern Front under the Russian Army, the Czechs were required to withdraw by the treaty of Brest-Litovsk which prohibited Allied military units in Russia. Signed on the 3rd of March 1918, the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk ended Russia’s participation in World War I.

The Legion was to proceed in echelons via the 6,000 mile long Trans-Siberian Railway from its staging area in the Ukraine to Vladivostok on the Sea of Japan and from there through the continental U.S. and on to France.
Alarmed over the news that the Red Guard had attacked the Czech Legion’s echelons in western Siberia and at the urging of the Allied Supreme War Council, President Wilson decided in early July 1918 to send a 7,000 man force to Siberia which would be complimented by a similar Japanese force.

According to Wilson’s terms of reference, the Americans were to assist the Czech Legion in consolidating its forces and to secure their exit at Vladivostok, to steady Russian efforts at self-government, and to protect a considerable amount of military supplies sent by the U.S.A. and stockpiled in Vladivostok that would be needed in the event the Russians reestablished the Eastern Front.

It has been suggested that the U.S. intervention was also intended to stem Japanese territorial ambitions in Siberia. In particular, Wilson feared Japanese control of the Trans-Siberian Railway as this could threaten American economic interests. Eventually, Japan sent not only 7,000 but over 70,000 soldiers into the area.

The American Siberian Expeditionary Force (S.E.F.) was formed with 3,011 men from the 27th and 31st Infantry regiments deployed from the Philippines and 5,002 men detached from the 8th Division at Camp Fremont, California, which were integrated into the undermanned regiments. Including a company of telegraphers from the Signal Corps, and Ambulance Company, a field hospital, and other support units, the strength of the S.E.F. reached 9,014 Americans. Commanded by Major General William S. Graves, formerly the commander of the 8th Division, the first contingent of the S.E.F. arrived at Vladivostok on the 15th August 1918.

The S.E.F. arrived in Siberia in the midst of the political upheaval following the Bolshevik revolution in October 1917. Numerous provisional bodies claimed sovereignty over Siberia and the region was plagued by marauding bands of Cossacks. As these factions vied for control, the S.E.F. attempted to maintain a strict neutral stance, while the British and French were supporting a White (anti-Bolshevik) counter-revolution in the hope that a White victory would lead to a second Eastern Front. At the same time the Japanese, who wanted neither a strong Red nor White Russian government, were subsidizing Cossack groups.

To help in securing the Trans-Siberian Railway, American detachments were garrisoned at bridges and isolated depots along the line as far as Lake Baikal, 2,000 miles to the west of Vladivostok. American action was limited to skirmishes between detachments and White and Cossack elements an to an operation during April-June 1919 to clear Bolshevik partisans from the Suchan coal fields, an essential source of fuel for the railroad.

The Armistice on the 11th of November 1918, negated Allied plans to transfer the Czech Legion to France nor did the well-organized Czechs require S.E.F. assistance to complete its march to Vladivostok. Justification for the American presence was further eroded when it became apparent that the Bolsheviks would win the struggle for Siberia. In mid-January 1920, the decision was made to terminate the S.E.F. but not before the Czech evacuation was completed. The last contingent of the S.E.F., consisting of General Graves and his staff, departed Vladivostok on the 23rd of April 1920.

In June 1917, an American Advisory Commission of Railway Experts was sent to Russia to advise the Kerensky government on how to improve its railroad facilities. To implement the Commissions programs, 285 American railroad men under the direction of Colonel George H. Emerson were dispatched to Siberia during November 1917.

Comprising the Russian Railway Service Corps, these railroad men held commissions in the corps of Engineers; however the Army refused to recognize them as veterans when they returned home in 1920.

After years of litigation, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on the 28th of March 1971 that the 22 surviving members of the Russian Railway Service Corps were entitled to veteran’s status; and therefore, they became eligible for the award of the U.S. Inter-Allied Victory Medal with the “Siberia” clasp.

So much for awards for American Aggression in Russia.:roll:

Connaught Ranger.

TORA

06-03-2009, 04:52 AM

Well, as I was trying to infer earlier, such prints were not inteded to be particularly informative or accurate, their purpose was to be entertaining to look at and maybe generate some 'rah-rah' feelings- like so many comic books or TV shows.

There's really nothing to be surpised about, it was a time of colonialism and nationalism.
Such kind of material could be found in several other countries that experienced the Colonialism far later than the British, French or Spanish.
Italy too during the 20's and 30's when was under Mussolini's governement published such material for celebrate it's military conquest in Northern and Eastern Africa, exalt sense of nationalism and pride among the youngers and the people as a whole.

tercio67

06-03-2009, 05:01 AM

Care to actually bring some proofs on that? Do not confuse supporting the whites with sending troops to the other part of the world....

Like I stated before in this thread, the list of participating nations is not about force-contributors. Even declaring political support or giving material aid would have made them 'participants'.
It is a list of countries that supported the anti-Bolshevik effort.
SOME OF THEM DID NOT SEND TROOPS, IT NOWHERE SAYS THAT THEY DID!!!

Hukatus

06-03-2009, 05:07 AM

And... What territories Soviet occupied in 1918-1922?
"The situation of the Estonian Republic was rather desperate. Organizing of the army had just begun and less than 2,000 men could be sent to the front (without a single cannon). However, the Government headed by Prime Minister Konstantin Päts decided not to give up without a fight. During the first month of war Estonian soldiers were forced to retreat and the Red Army was able to occupy North- and South-Eastern Estonia. The university town of Tartu soon fell to the Red Army and in the beginning of January 1919 the enemy was just 40 kilometers from Tallinn (the capital of Estonia)."

In fact Expeditionary Army of Canada, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, UK and USA invade in Russia... Not in Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus or some... In native Russian territory.... It was real aggression...
interesting, you invade you neighbours and when you lose and they bring the fight to you territory you start crying?

The Baltic countries have been occupied by the German-Austrian Army since 1918. They never fought for independence... As in WWII, They have entered volunteers to German-Austrian Army and have gone to kill on the Russian territory......
i think you need a little history lesson.

Estonian War of Independence

During World War I the greatest colonial power in Europe – the Russian Empire – seized to exist. On its ruins the formerly enchained nations founded their own states. Among them was the Estonian Republic, officially declared on February 24, 1918.

When Germany surrendered to the Western Allies on November 11, 1918 a strategic vacuum arose in Eastern Europe. The new rulers of Russia – the Bolsheviks – decided to use it as a proper moment to re-conquer their lost territories. The ultimate goal was international communist revolution and Germany was the first standing on their way.

Thus on November 13, 1918 the Government of Soviet Russia denounced peace with Germany. On November 16 the Commander-in-Chief of the Red Army, Jukums Vacietis, gave orders to start a massive attack on a long front from the Gulf of Finland to the Ukraine. On November 28, two divisions of the Red Army (altogether 12,000 troops) crossed the Estonian border. The War of Independence had begun.

The situation of the Estonian Republic was rather desperate. Organizing of the army had just begun and less than 2,000 men could be sent to the front (without a single cannon). However, the Government headed by Prime Minister Konstantin Päts decided not to give up without a fight. During the first month of war Estonian soldiers were forced to retreat and the Red Army was able to occupy North- and South-Eastern Estonia. The university town of Tartu soon fell to the Red Army and in the beginning of January 1919 the enemy was just 40 kilometers from Tallinn (the capital of Estonia).

At the time when few military units and volunteers of the Defence League showed desperate resistance on the front, intense organizational work took place in the rear. Colonel Johan Laidoner (since January 1919 Major General) who became Commander-in-Chief on December 23, 1918 was the coordinator and soul of these efforts. By January 5, 1919 14,000 additional men had been mobilized. Estonian forces could now set to counterattack and on the first birthday of the Estonian Republic (February 24, 1919) General Laidoner could report to the Parliament that the enemy had successfully been driven out of Estonian territory.
http://www.laidoner.ee/index.php/lang/eng/article/estonian-war-of-independence

Kilgor

06-03-2009, 05:09 AM

So much for awards for American Aggression in Russia.:roll:

Connaught Ranger.

Makes you wonder why America donated food aid when Russia was starving a few years later.

tercio67

06-03-2009, 05:10 AM

About the "funny/inaccurate/stupid/incompetent/wrongly dressed" depiction of foreign soldiers in these drawings, you need to realise they were meant for internal consumption. In other words, made by and for Japanese, the bulk of the Japanese population would not have known the difference.
It was meant as feel-good propaganda.

Russian_dude

06-03-2009, 09:09 AM

Wrangel

06-03-2009, 10:22 AM

During the 'Allied Intervention' of the civil war (1918-1922) there were 15 foreign nations taking part in this intervention in Siberia.

Canada, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, UK and USA.
Together they totalled about 100 000.

Lots of these countries intervened elsewhere in Russia during civil war,like in southern Russia,Caucasus,and Baltic Region.

Regarding Japanese propaganda posters,they are totally false.
There were (off course) no German or Austro Hungarian troops in Siberia.
Japanese troops participated (together with other countries) against Bolshevik forces and to assist "white" Russian forces.Besides Japanese troops there were British,Czech,American,French and Polish troops in Siberia as well.

In fact Expeditionary Army of Canada, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, UK and USA invade in Russia... Not in Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus or some... In native Russian territory.... It was real aggression...
But Red Army has destroyed all aggressors and Expeditionary Army have run from of Russia...

The Red Army has liberated the Russian territory...

For example the US awards for aggression in Russia...

These claims are little bit over the top.
First of all,no one outside Bolshevik controlled areas has considered Lenin's regime as legitimate government of Russia.
Only Kolchak's regime in Siberia was considered as legitimate Russian government by most of the world's states at the time.
Most of countries intervening in civil war were allies of Russian state during ww1,and this intervention was support for (what they believed) was real Russian government.
Bolshevik regime have given large chunks of Russian imperial territory to Germans,with Brest-Litovsk treaty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Armisticebrestlitovsk.jpg

Antibolshevik Russians considered this as high treason.

There were also foreign interventionists on Bolshevik side,like "Red Latvian riflemen".
Not to mention that Bolshevik revolution was helped by Germans in order to destabilize Russia (then an allied state):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin

The Swiss communist Fritz Platten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Platten) nonetheless managed to negotiate with the German government for Lenin and his company to travel through Germany by rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport), on the so-called “sealed train (http://www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com/7897401/pearson/pearson_index.html)”. The German government clearly hoped Lenin’s return would create political unrest in Russia, which would help to end the war on the Eastern front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_%28World_War_I%29), allowing Germany to concentrate on defeating the Western allies. Once through Germany, Lenin continued by ferry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferry) to Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden); the remainder of the journey through Scandinavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia) was subsequently arranged by Swedish communists Otto Grimlund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Grimlund) and Ture Nerman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ture_Nerman).And eventually Lenin did exactly what Germany wanted.

sup_tech

06-03-2009, 10:26 AM

During World War I the greatest colonial power in Europe – the Russian Empire – seized to exist. On its ruins the formerly enchained nations founded their own states.
I like how there is no mentioning of the role that Estonians (and other nationalists for that matter) have played in overthrowing the Russian Monarchy and latter the democratically elected government by siding with Bolsheviks. So what, it happened on it's own just like that?

Hukatus

06-03-2009, 10:44 AM

sup_tech

06-03-2009, 10:58 AM

Than you should research this issue on your own so you wouldn't be influenced by anybody else.

cmc

06-03-2009, 12:54 PM

Like I stated before in this thread, the list of participating nations is not about force-contributors. Even declaring political support or giving material aid would have made them 'participants'.
It is a list of countries that supported the anti-Bolshevik effort.
SOME OF THEM DID NOT SEND TROOPS, IT NOWHERE SAYS THAT THEY DID!!!

Let me quote this: "there were 15 foreign nations taking part in this intervention in Siberia". What do you understand from this? I understand that there were 15 nations that intervened in Siberia.... :| WTF... english is not my native language... but... still... that much I DO understand...

Marmot1

06-03-2009, 04:21 PM

Than you should research this issue on your own so you wouldn't be influenced by anybody else.

influenced like you?

sup_tech

06-03-2009, 05:46 PM

More or less. I have a very strong opinion about Bolsheviks and those who helped them.

Bachelor

06-03-2009, 06:37 PM

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Intervention_in_Russia

These are the numbers of the foreign soldiers who occupied the indicated regions of Russia:

50,000 Czechoslovaks (along the Trans-Siberian railway)
28,000 Japanese, later increased to 70,000 (all in the Vladivostok region)
24,000 Greeks (in Crimea)
16,000 British (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
13,000 Americans (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
12,000 French and French colonial (mostly in the Arkhangelsk and Odessa regions)
12,000 Poles (mostly in Crimea and Ukraine)
4,000 Canadians (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
4,000 Serbs (in the Arkhangelsk region)
4,000 Romanians (in the Arkhangelsk region)
2,000 Italians (in the Arkhangelsk region)
2,000 Chinese (in the Vladivostok region)
560 Australians (mostly in the Arkhangelsk regions)
Total: 213,560

And don't forget the German, Austrian, Hungarian army - They occupied Ukraine, Belarus, Poland..., Baltic countries.....
And their allies of the Polish puppet government and the similar governments of the Baltic countries. These governments have supported Germany. They have taken part in occupation of a part of the western territories of Russia :

Total near 6,000,000

Red Army has stopped invasion of German Army (and their Allies and volunteers) to Narva-Pskov line in February, 23rd 1918. It's The National holiday now...

Links:

Info about German Army in Russia in 1918-22 -
http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_I)

Look at the Map of west-north-south sides of aggression in Russia -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1046/qwwweee.jpg

PS. If you think that Bolsheviks not Russian people or not humans - it's your foul... In general the people of Russia has supported Bolsheviks. At end The Red Army has liberated the most part of Russian territory and all occupational Armies (including White Army) have run away... It's the fact.

Bachelor

06-03-2009, 06:45 PM

And as a joke... Look at the pictures.... Japanese did not understand who their enemy in Russia. They did not know with whom battle. May be The Alliance battled each other...? And by the end Bolsheviks have Won... http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/cry.gif

Kilgor

06-03-2009, 07:10 PM

PS. If you think that Bolsheviks not Russian people or not humans - it's your foul... In general the people of Russia has supported Bolsheviks.

Excuse my ignorance, but like most "revolutions" the Bolsheviks only had the support of a minority of the population.

SBL

06-03-2009, 09:23 PM

And as a joke... Look at the pictures.... Japanese did not understand who their enemy in Russia. They did not know with whom battle. May be The Alliance battled each other...?
You're a thick one.

Seek

06-04-2009, 02:34 AM

Link:

And don't forget the German, Austrian, Hungarian army - They occupied Ukraine, Belarus, Poland..., Baltic countries.....

Germany didn't have the manpower to occupy anything after 1919... WTF are you talking about? Aall those contries were independent after WW1. Your interpretation of the events seems to be as realistic as the one presented by those japanese propaganda pictures.

Connaught Ranger

06-04-2009, 03:55 AM

With reference:-

These are the numbers of the foreign soldiers who occupied the indicated regions of Russia:

50,000 Czechoslovaks (along the Trans-Siberian railway)

These are members of the Czech Legion, which was created by Masaryk who persuaded the Kerensky government to allow him form a corps from amongst the 250,000 Czech prisoners of war detained in Russia, (many were formally captured while in forced service of the Austro-Hungarian armies) The Legion fought bravely against Germany on the Eastern Front during Russia's last offensive against Germany, but then was required to evacuate Russia under the terms of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. In May 1918, the Allies approved a plan to transfer the Legion from Russia to France via the Port of Vladivostok on the Sea of Japan, although by this time it was strung along the Trans-Siberian Railway and meeting Bolshevik resistance. During mid-June 1918, the Allies directed that the Legion scattered echelons on the Trans-Siberian conduct holding operations in order to secure the line for a possible Allied movement westwards with the goal of reestablishing the Eastern Front. However, the Legion controlled the railway eastward only as far as the approach to Irkutsk near Lake Baikal. The remaining 2,000 plus mile gap from Irkutsk to Vladivostok was held by the Bolsheviks.

To complete Allied control of the line, the advanced Czech contingent in Vladivostok, consisting of about 14,000 men, moved to clear the railway and establish communications with the rear echelons of the Czech Legion. On the 28th June, the Czechs seized the Vladivostok Soviet; and on the 15th of August, the east and west halves of the Legion linked up at Chita.

During November 1918, the Czech Legion joined the force of the All-Russian Provisional Government led by Admiral Alexander Kolchak. Forming Kolchack's northern army, the Legion's far western element was to move from Ekaterinberg to Perm and then on to Viatka where it would meet with the Allied Expeditionary force fighting down the Dvina River from Archangel. The Legion took Perm on Christmas Day 1918; but over extended and exhausted, it was unable to proceed against Viatka, and on 3rd of July 1919, Perm was abandoned.

On the 14th of November 1919, the capital off the provisional government, Omsk, was captured by the Bolsheviks. After the fall of Omsk, the remnants of Kolchak's disintegrated army and a million refugees began fleeing eastwards on a course paralleling the Trans-Siberian. To spare the last echelons of the Legion still on the Trans-Serbian, the Czechs struck an agreement with the Bolsheviks to turn over to the Irkutsk Soviet both Kolchak, who was being escorted by the Legion, and the gold reserve of the Czarist government captured at Kazan during July 1918. This was accomplished on the 15th of January 1920; and thereafter, the Bolsheviks allowed an armistice which provided for the peaceful withdrawal of the Legion from Russia.

From the 20th of February to May 1920, 57,459 Legionaries were evacuated from Vladivostok on ships, (mainly Japanese,) charted by the new Czech Republic and the Legion. Left behind by the Legion were some 13.000 fallen comrades.

Connaught Ranger.

Mateusz

06-04-2009, 05:18 AM

Absolutetly stunning pictures ! I knever new much about this Civil War part where Japanes attacked

omghihi

06-04-2009, 09:56 AM

I like how there is no mentioning of the role that Estonians (and other nationalists for that matter) have played in overthrowing the Russian Monarchy and latter the democratically elected government by siding with Bolsheviks. So what, it happened on it's own just like that?

the same bolsheviks who tried to invade estonia? darn, that must have been one bad siding.

I must also clarify that estonian troops did not take part of invasive actions in Russia, let alone petrograd. reason being that the white forces refused to even discuss our independence. the troops didn't want to go fight another man's war anyway. and all that came to bite us in the arse 20 years later.

sup_tech

06-04-2009, 10:03 AM

and all that came to bite us in the arse 20 years later.

My point exactly.

Connaught Ranger

06-04-2009, 11:24 AM

the same bolsheviks who tried to invade estonia? darn, that must have been one bad siding.

I must also clarify that estonian troops did not take part of invasive actions in Russia, let alone petrograd. reason being that the white forces refused to even discuss our independence. the troops didn't want to go fight another man's war anyway. and all that came to bite us in the arse 20 years later.

Well, with regards "invasive actions" and for clarification, seeing most Allied countries whose military was in Russia, (from just before the end of WW1, with the consent of the Russian Government, and as shown the Czech Legion was formed with the ruling Governments permission from Czech POW's) were there in a Defensive capacity of their military property / stores and the Trans-Siberian Railway, and a way to keep the line open should the Reds be defeated to use it as a way to a new Eastern Front, it seems it was mainly the Japanese who had aspirations with regards Siberia. There was no invasion of Russia by the Allies, mainly because they had not the manpower, to take on the Reds in an all out conflict.

Romania certainly had no forces capable of being an invasive force, having spent from 1916 - 1919 being continually pushed back back combined Austro-Hungarian, Prussian, Bulgarian and Turkish forces, into what is today's Republic of Moldova with the Russian Imperial forces who fell back during the confusion caused in Russia by the Revolution. I believe the Romanian troops were sent with the intention of securing land that was formally under occupation by the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Connaught Ranger.:)

the_penguin

06-04-2009, 01:33 PM

I believe that the German and Austrian soldiers that the japanese fought against was former POW's that had sided with the Bolsheviks, I know that the Czech Legion did fight with the former German and Austrian POW's a one time along the Trans-Siberian railroad.

Bachelor

06-06-2009, 08:23 PM

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5533/2626.jpg

http://www.visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/0439/54/043954.jpg

HangPC2

06-09-2009, 01:53 AM

Russo Japan War 1904 -1905

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5055/russianarmy1904og7.jpg

Japanese POW

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9118/japanesepow1904ol7.jpg

To War

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8648/towar1904ul4.jpg

East Siberean Before Deployment

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2403/eastsibereanbeforedeploxb3.jpg

Resting

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2008/russuansoldier1904restigt0.jpg

Kozaks In North Korea

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3429/kozaksinnorthkorea19040qv7.jpg

Food Suppliers

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4899/foodsuppliers190405rv8.jpg

HangPC2

06-09-2009, 01:57 AM

Kozaks In A Cross Fire

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4199/kozaksinacrossfire19040za1.jpg

Evaq Wounded Soldiers

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/8472/evaqwoundedsoldiers1904rl4.jpg

Japanese Artillery Fall Back

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5507/japaneseartilleryfallbanf1.jpg

Kozaks Attacking Enemy Position

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1597/kozaksattackingenemyposkf8.jpg

Poem About Russian - Japan War

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/7347/poemaboutrussianjapanwazw3.jpg

Russian Guard

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4361/russianguard190405vq6.jpg

Kozaks

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3402/kozaksyy0.jpg

HangPC2

06-09-2009, 02:00 AM

Building Rail Through The Baikal Lake

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2835/buildingrailthroughthebwx0.jpg

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7018/buildingrailthroughtheblv1.jpg

Kozaks In Patrol Meet Wolfs

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/1894/kozaksinpatrolmeetwolfscm9.jpg

Russian Cavalry In Manchuria

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1977/russiancavalryinmanchurom0.jpg

Russian POW

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3777/russianpowcu4.jpg

Sources : http://www.oldvladivostok.ru/files/photo/