12 year old danish boy, commits sueside after intense bullying.

[Fallap]

http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/samfund/article1177104.ece

A young boy aged twelve, hung himself early this day, after being bullied in school.

Rest in peace. :|

ENGLISH: http://jp.dk/uknews/article1713957.ece

Bullied child hangs himself

Published 04.06.09 10:43
A young boy committed suicide by hanging after excessive bullying from other pupils A 12-year-old schoolboy hung himself on Tuesday afternoon after apparently suffering at the hands of bullies at his local school. Ekstra Bladet newspaper reports that Robert Larsen...
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A 12-year-old schoolboy hung himself on Tuesday afternoon after apparently suffering at the hands of bullies at his local school.
Ekstra Bladet newspaper reports that Robert Larsen from Kisserup on Zealand suffered from attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), as does his younger brother, and proved an easy target for bullies at the school.
His mother was too distressed to talk about the circumstances of her son’s death, but said she was well aware that he was having problems at school. His younger brother moved to a different school because of the bullying and Robert was also due to move.
An older pupil told the newspaper that because of his condition Robert hated to be touched and the bullies quickly cottoned on to it.
‘Once they promised Robert that they would stop teasing him if he did some things for them. After he had carried out the tasks, they continued to bully him. It was a terrible shame.’
Comments?
The Copenhagen Post

[evilhand]

R.I.P, poor boy died way to young, by the way should this be in off topic instead of political discussion.

[V.I.D.]

He commits himself to seaside? Resting in prace? What the hell are you talking about?

Check your spelling and where this kind of a topic usually goes.

Having said that, R.I.P. to the kid. Indeed, another sad case and unfortunate choice on his part.

[Holmes85]

This could qualify as a rant about the wrongs in the world.:-(

[Mr.Woland]

IMHO.
Stupid way to escape from problem.
For him was better to sign up to take a course of hand-to-hand fighting or simply start visit gym.

[JJHH]

IMHO.
Stupid way to escape from problem.
For him was better to sign up to take a course of hand-to-hand fighting or simply start visit gym.

Very humble opinion mate..

R.i.p. little man.

[kosse]

IMHO.
Stupid way to escape from problem.
For him was better to sign up to take a course of hand-to-hand fighting or simply start visit gym.

Quoted for stupidity.

RIP to the little guy. Parents and teachers ought to have acted sooner.

[Holmes85]

IMHO.
Stupid way to escape from problem.
For him was better to sign up to take a course of hand-to-hand fighting or simply start visit gym.

You know what, not all problems can be solved that easily and you have no idea what was going through the mind of that poor soul. For example, bullying has made it online to and those experiencing it can literally find no escape, since it is nearly impossible to remove the muck and disinformation they throw at you online.

[TheCivilian]

Tough choice for a 12 year old. R.I.P.

[Connaught Ranger]

+ Rest In Peace +

[GTX-Typhoon]

This is truly sad :(

Every time i read things like this, that childeren are commiting suicide, makes my day sober.

Failure of society to prevent these kinds of trauma's...

RIP boy, hope you will have a better life somewhere in heaven.

[SoSo]

I don't know anything about the Danish legal system. But I hope that boy's parents sue the **** out of the bullys' parents and the school system for letting this happen.
May the victim rest in peace.

[PeterG]

I don't know anything about the Danish legal system. But I hope that boy's parents sue the **** out of the bullys' parents and the school system for letting this happen.
May the victim rest in peace.

Kids can be absolutely brutal.. Yes, even your own little darlings! They will mercilessly bully the designated victim, even if you have seen them cry when they saw something sad on TV. Grownups should intervene when they can, and try to keep an eye on the kids, but we all need to be realistic. There isn't necessarily anyone to sue.

[Hollis]

Rest In Peace

[brainplay]

RiP to the kid.

Shame the parents did a crappy job of teaching the kid to deal with these social issues. Nothing different than what many of us older types went through growing up. Nothing too different than what future generations will go through either. Sad that he thought that suicide was the answer. :-(

[SniperLane]

poor kid :(

[goat89]

Poor kid. RIP. Sometimes they succeed in convincing themselves suicide is the easy way to go because its simple. Couple of seconds and all the pain and troubles are gone. So simple. RIP. :(

[Karaahmetoglu]

Rest In Peace.

[1911-a1]

Christ... RIP.

[Euroamerican]

Horrible. RIP to the kid. They should charge the bullies with contributing to a felony, manslaughter, or something like that.

[Hot Lips]

They ought to make the bullies carry his coffin.

[Emmissary of Peace]

that's very sad. RIP kid. this is why i always asked my nephew if he's ok in school and if there's somebody bullying him. i teach him how to fend this bullies off and last resort is to defend himself if they become physical, i teach him muay thai and basic ground fighting.

[Solvent]

Very sad. RIP, poor kid.

[gazell]

It is a very serious problem, that civilised society has failed to address at all. According to Marr and Field's Bullycide Death At Playtime, one child in every half hour attempts suicide in the UK. It is not something of a toughen up, boy kind of job, especially, since we have the socialising in the community, cheaper for the government approach.

Deep sympathies for the kid and the parents.

[BMUS]

I know this is maybe a little off-topic of the main subject but a suicide takes a lot of gut. This kid must have had some serious troubles in his life, if able to do this at an age of 12.

Really sad.

[Shadowstorm]

Rest in Peace.

[deagle]

it sux, and its a poor reflection of what goes on in today's society.

[SoSo]

Kids can be absolutely brutal.. Yes, even your own little darlings! They will mercilessly bully the designated victim, even if you have seen them cry when they saw something sad on TV. Grownups should intervene when they can, and try to keep an eye on the kids, but we all need to be realistic. There isn't necessarily anyone to sue.

I understand what you're saying, but I have to disagree with you. Because this wasn't a tragedy, an accident, a natural disaster like a storm or an earthquake, for which no one can be held responsible. This was a case of deliberate, vicious cruelty, which ended in the death of a child. This poor boy deserves justice. If I was his father, I would demand it. In fact, a judicial settlement might not even be enough to satisfy me; I might want to seek redress through extralegal means.

[Fenrir]

R.I.P. to the little boy.

Wonderful society we got going for us, when kids are hurting so much they resort to the only solution left to them, how we grown ups have failed.

[brainplay]

This was a case of deliberate, vicious cruelty, which ended in the death of a child. This poor boy deserves justice. If I was his father, I would demand it. In fact, a judicial settlement might not even be enough to satisfy me; I might want to seek redress through extralegal means.

Wasn't murder or manslaughter. There are no grounds for any redress unless you want to designate him as property which we stopped doing centuries ago. The kid took his own life by his own hand under the guardianship of those parents. Truly a shame.

Bullying can come in many forms and different levels. However, there are options aplenty for intervention at every school if this was really that serious. This was far from his only or last option. Excuses aside, it never is! The fact that children today do not have the tools to cope under said circumstances is a testament to the poor parenting and social degradation as society expects everything to be someone else's responsibility. Its still sad that even after death society is still trying to place blame on someone or something other than the very kid who placed the noose around his own neck.

Let him take the responsibility for his very last act on earth at the very least.

[Frutzel]

Quoted for stupidity.

RIP to the little guy. Parents and teachers ought to have acted sooner.

Why stupidity? I don't know about you but during my school time there were just 2 ways of dealing with these kind of people. Take your fist and teach them or do nothing and let them bully you. I understand his point but maybe he said it the wrong way. RIP little man

[Fargin]

A terrible tradigy, a desperate act.

Bullying is apart of social interaction, sometimes it goes too far. Sometimes people refuse to address it or to distinguish the serverity. Sometimes parents, teachers, co-workers are just too busy. An alround failure to intervene, noone is at fault and everyone is.

RIP

[hsh2]

Why stupidity? I don't know about you but during my school time there were just 2 ways of dealing with these kind of people. Take your fist and teach them or do nothing and let them bully you. I understand his point but maybe he said it the wrong way. RIP little man

i always used option nr 3: befriend them.

as one would say in german: fein raus...

and RIP to the little kid and best wishes to his family and friends. a 50yr stock broker commiting suicide is one thing, a 12 yr old kid who has everything yet to come...:|

[California Joe]

Wasn't murder or manslaughter. There are no grounds for any redress unless you want to designate him as property which we stopped doing centuries ago. The kid took his own life by his own hand under the guardianship of those parents. Truly a shame.

Bullying can come in many forms and different levels. However, there are options aplenty for intervention at every school if this was really that serious. This was far from his only or last option. Excuses aside, it never is! The fact that children today do not have the tools to cope under said circumstances is a testament to the poor parenting and social degradation as society expects everything to be someone else's responsibility. Its still sad that even after death society is still trying to place blame on someone or something other than the very kid who placed the noose around his own neck.

Let him take the responsibility for his very last act on earth at the very least.

I agree with you to some extent, but the parts I bolded should be equally applied to the parents of the bullies. The kinds of parents that allowed their own children to be the type of c*nts that revell in torturing weaker kids. A fine example they set.

I've taught my children how to defend themselves if need be, and how I expect them to conduct themselves amongst their friends and classmates and part of that is defending the weak, not persecuting them for sport. That is unacceptable behavior in my eyes.

These are not adults we're talking about here. They are kids, their brains aren't even fully formed yet. Getting a pimple is a major trauma in most of their lives, let alone having other kids turn their waking hours into a nightmare.

[Frutzel]

i always used option nr 3: befriend them.

as one would say in german: fein raus...

and RIP to the little kid and best wishes to his family and friends. a 50yr stock broker commiting suicide is one thing, a 12 yr old kid who has everything yet to come...:|

The problem is that values like respect and dignity are dying out. If I compare the kids today with my generation than I can tell you it's shocking. They are behaving like **** and show no respect at all. Too many moronic influences combined with increasing dullness is a big problem.

[California Joe]

If that had happened here and we had another Columbine everyone would be up in arms over that. But at least then the kid would have payed back the little bastards that tortured him.

[hsh2]

The problem is that values like respect and dignity are dying out. If I compare the kids today with my generation than I can tell you it's shocking. They are behaving like **** and show no respect at all. Too many moronic influences combined with increasing dullness is a big problem.

Absolutely. I always ask my 13yr old cousin how school is and it's pretty crazy. You treat the teacher like your "homeboy", you come late, you "forget" your homework, "happy slapping", graffiti/Edding marker vandalism, mobbing/bullying of course, weak and cowardly break duty people etc.

Everything goes.

The sad thing is my cousin is, well, learning disabled, hyperactive and depressive, so I'm always a bit preoccpuied because he fits exactly the victim scheme even though he's a GREAT guy and a HUGE Metalhead, probably has one of the biggest Metal collection of all of Switzerland...for which i am not completely innocent:lol:

[Red_Rage]

Quoted for stupidity.

RIP to the little guy. Parents and teachers ought to have acted sooner.


RIP to the kid, BUT

Why is his comment stupid? Standing up for yourself is how your earn respect. Parents and teachers are not always there, a man should learn to be a man. Bullies are also cowards for the most part - fvck one up and the rest will fold. Where i went to school, fighting was a weekly thing (with UFC style matches after school, minus all rules), so my standards on how much abuse kids can tolerate are a little old school. I also remember that nobody cared about pimples, being unfashionable, teenage problems or any of that **** - those with personal strength and character were respected, and not those who had the coolest iPhone (or just a brick sized cell phone back then)).


I'm sure many memebers here had been in fights, had been beaten or humiliated - that is life. You take notes, do your homework and make sure it never happens again. Suicide, or other extreme pointed out by California joe (school massacre), are not the paths to take.

Blaming the parents does not seem right either. Not matter how liberal or open parents are, kids will never tell them about all their problems. Especially nowdays, when parents have to work 10 hours a day and thier kids are left to themselves and technology like Internet (which is a comfortable "shell" to retreat to, up to a point).

[California Joe]

I think it was a multitude of factors that caused it. Every kid handles stress differently, the individual reactions are as different as there are children.

Those of us that are older have surely been in fights of one kind or another as kids, but it seems like even fistfights after school now have the potential to escalate far out of control. Everyone of us has probably known kids while growing up that were never going to engage in a physical confrontation.

When you have kids, you react differently to things that effect them compared to when you were young and had the luxury of just reacting.

Make no mistake, this is a tragedy.

[Soldat_Américain]

I think it was a multitude of factors that cause it. Every kid handles stress differently, the individual reactions are as different as there are children.

Those of us that are older have surely been in fights of one kind or another as kids, but it seems like even fistfights after school now have the potential to escalate far out of control.

When you have kids, you react differently to things that effect them compared to when you were young and had the luxury of just reacting.
A kid in my graduating class committed suicide last summer...I didn't know him, my younger brother did...he was kind of an outcast because of the way he looked his facial hair was insane and wore glasses thicker than bottles. Never knew him, he had friends, which was demonstrated by the fact that my brother who doesn't seem to care about anything went to his funeral. Normally you have obituaries and my town being relatively small you hear about it, and I spoke with some of my old teachers while I was home and they had no idea. But the kid was 19 and not attending there anymore...and at that age when you have your entire life ahead of you I don't know what motivates the trigger pull.

At this boys age...how could his parents not be there to provide the loving care that he needed, but also, young children are very impressionable, and if a bully seriously beats the living crap out of you everyday then you might do something drastic. I'm not sure if children are more fragile these days or if we have a better understanding of development.

[Red_Rage]

I think it was a multitude of factors that caused it. Every kid handles stress differently, the individual reactions are as different as there are children.

Those of us that are older have surely been in fights of one kind or another as kids, but it seems like even fistfights after school now have the potential to escalate far out of control. Everyone of us has probably known kids while growing up that were never going to engage in a physical confrontation.

When you have kids, you react differently to things that effect them compared to when you were young and had the luxury of just reacting.

Make no mistake, this is a tragedy.


I can agree with that.

[Connaught Ranger]

RIP to the kid, BUT

Why is his comment stupid? Standing up for yourself is how your earn respect. Parents and teachers are not always there, a man should learn to be a man. Bullies are also cowards for the most part - fvck one up and the rest will fold. Where i went to school, fighting was a weekly thing (with UFC style matches after school, minus all rules), so my standards on how much abuse kids can tolerate are a little old school. I also remember that nobody cared about pimples, being unfashionable, teenage problems or any of that **** - those with personal strength and character were respected, and not those who had the coolest iPhone (or just a brick sized cell phone back then)).

He was 12 years old for fecks sake!


I'm sure many memebers here had been in fights, had been beaten or humiliated - that is life. You take notes, do your homework and make sure it never happens again. Suicide, or other extreme pointed out by California joe (school massacre), are not the paths to take.

Blaming the parents does not seem right either. Not matter how liberal or open parents are, kids will never tell them about all their problems. Especially nowdays, when parents have to work 10 hours a day and thier kids are left to themselves and technology like Internet (which is a comfortable "shell" to retreat to, up to a point).

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, makes us all "experts" but we are all individuals and react differently to the strains and stress of daily life.

He is now with God poor young boy, and may he Rest In Peace.

[hsh2]

Fallap; are there any follow up news on the whole situation?

[Holmes85]

You know, sometimes I think it's the school system itself that is messed up, especially when it comes to grouping students together. I still remember the times during my High School years where I witnessed students with Learning Disabilities or those diagnosed with Autism being placed in the same classrooms with students who displayed all the signs of Conduct Disorder, which is the early term for Sociopath for those under 18. I intervened as much as possible when I could, but the fact that this was occurring still disturbs me to this day.

[Danielotu]

IMHO.
Stupid way to escape from problem.
For him was better to sign up to take a course of hand-to-hand fighting or simply start visit gym.

..............what :roll:?

[Danielotu]

May the soul of the young boy RIP.

[Soldat_Américain]

You know, sometimes I think it's the school system itself that is messed up, especially when it comes to grouping students together. I still remember the times during my High School years where I witnessed students with Learning Disabilities or those diagnosed with Autism being placed in the same classrooms with students who displayed all the signs of Conduct Disorder, which is the early term for Sociopath for those under 18. I intervened as much as possible when I could, but the fact that this was occurring still disturbs me to this day.
It depends on the schools...my little sister is mentally disabled, and some of these kids work really hard and get put into the mainstream class environment because they can handle the workload. I never saw the mentally disabled treated badly at my high school, because lord knows if my sister came crying to me when were both there at the same time, I would have killed the person responsible.

[Fallap]

Fallap; are there any follow up news on the whole situation?

Surprisingly not. The boys parents and the school have decided to tell much to the press.

Ps. I found an english source:

http://jp.dk/uknews/article1713957.ece

Poor kid, I hope they fry those SOB's. I have Tourettes Syndrom, I wasn't bullied by that in elementary school. My so called friends where kind enough not to do that, instead they beated me 5 days a week for four years. And I didn't do a thing. Bah.

Oh well. The one died of sniffing lightergas, and the others are stuck with lowlife jobs.

[Hot Lips]

I agree with you to some extent, but the parts I bolded should be equally applied to the parents of the bullies. The kinds of parents that allowed their own children to be the type of c*nts that revell in torturing weaker kids. A fine example they set.

I've taught my children how to defend themselves if need be, and how I expect them to conduct themselves amongst their friends and classmates and part of that is defending the weak, not persecuting them for sport. That is unacceptable behavior in my eyes.

These are not adults we're talking about here. They are kids, their brains aren't even fully formed yet. Getting a pimple is a major trauma in most of their lives, let alone having other kids turn their waking hours into a nightmare.

Amazing isn't, how for some it's the insecure, weaker, smaller, etc kids fault. Why wasn't that 12 year old more of a man?!

[Blue_0]

Hit the bullys for 2nd degree murder. It might not stick, but if the state gets lucky they will plead to manslaughter.

-- Bluelight

[kosse]

Amazing isn't, how for some it's the insecure, weaker, smaller, etc kids fault. Why wasn't that 12 year old more of a man?!
They grew up in Russia, the promised land of social darwinism.

[tengiz]

Rest in peace,little boy.
Those bullies gave no a single simple living space to him in this big world.
Every responsible person are unforgiven forever.

[hsh2]

Surprisingly not. The boys parents and the school have decided to tell much to the press.

Ps. I found an english source:

http://jp.dk/uknews/article1713957.ece

Poor kid, I hope they fry those SOB's. I have Tourettes Syndrom, I wasn't bullied by that in elementary school. My so called friends where kind enough not to do that, instead they beated me 5 days a week for four years. And I didn't do a thing. Bah.

Oh well. The one died of sniffing lightergas, and the others are stuck with lowlife jobs.

Did your parents intervene with the school director or even report it to the police (bodily injury)?


Amazing isn't, how for some it's the insecure, weaker, smaller, etc kids fault. Why wasn't that 12 year old more of a man?!

That's certainly part of the problem. Nowadays kids at home and at kindergarten get brought up to be weak, insecure. A self secure person (not aggressive, dominant, loudmouthed etc. just self secure= la force tranquille) is a sociopath in the eyes of many people nowadays and an enemy of the "open society". You get told that showing "grandeur" and fairness is important and that it is done by turning the other cheek to the bully. The kid wasn't the pulprit by any stretch of the imagination (and that's not what Red Rage, Frutzel and others implied btw), but his education and upbringing in all likelihood didn't help much either in coping with this situation, he's from Denmark after all.

You can thank the european 68er for that completely senseless philosophy and it's (depending of the country more or less thorough) infestation of school systems.

[Red_Rage]

That's certainly part of the problem. Nowadays kids at home and at kindergarten get brought up to be weak, insecure. A self secure person (not aggressive, dominant, loudmouthed etc. just self secure= la force tranquille) is a sociopath in the eyes of many people nowadays and an enemy of the "open society". You get told that showing "grandeur" and fairness is important and that it is done by turning the other cheek to the bully. The kid wasn't the pulprit by any stretch of the imagination (and that's not what Red Rage, Frutzel and others implied btw), but his education and upbringing in all likelihood didn't help much either in coping with this situation, he's from Denmark after all.

You can thank the european 68er for that completely senseless philosophy and it's (depending of the country more or less thorough) infestation of school systems.


Pussification of the West at its best. With no natural predators in the eco-system, species start to become weak and timid. Best thing we can do is not to raise spoiled, self-centered brats, obsessed with superficial things.

[NUCKINFUTS]

How could you possibly live with yourself knowing you contributed to a kid killing himself.

R.I.P. to that poor child, I thought I had problems, shows somewhere in the world someone has it way tougher than you.

[hsh2]

Pussification of the West at its best. With no natural predators in the eco-system, species start to become weak and timid. Best thing we can do is not to raise spoiled, self-centered brats, obsessed with superficial things.

I'd rather say engineered pussyfication. I don't believe in conspiracy theories or anything but it isn't hard to see that many people work very hard behind the scenes to make things change (ex Daniel Cohn Bendit, George Soros, Socialist International etc).

The Greenpeace founder (who has by now left his organization) had/has an interesting story to tell on this precise subject...


How could you possibly live with yourself knowing you contributed to a kid killing himself.

Do they even realize that contributed a kind to kill himself? I'm not so sure about that.
Not to derail the thread but if you ask an ardent feminist there is nothing lethal about abortion either. It's about "choice", nothing more nothing less.

FYI I am "pro choice" (if you can call it that) for a multitude of reasons, but I'm not denying that a potential or full blown baby dies in the process. It's just that being aborted is better than dying of a drug overdose at 17 after a life of agony in a slum.

[Holmes85]

Curious question though, but does anyone know what services those with disabilities receive at school in Europe? Such as for Children diagnosed with Autism, ADD, or have Learning Disabilities.

[kosse]

Curious question though, but does anyone know what services those with disabilities receive at school in Europe? Such as for Children diagnosed with Autism, ADD, or have Learning Disabilities.
One would have to be a special education teacher scpecialised in disabled children to be able to give a good answer to that. And I reckon practises differ quite a lot between EU countries.

Anyway, In Finland the goal is to integrate as many of the children as possible in ordinary classes. There are school helpers in schools to provide support for students with special needs so that teachers can focus on teaching. Or that's how it should be. Then there are special classes for those who aren't able to rub along in normal classes. The most severe disabilities require special schools..

My opinion is that integrating kids with serious ADHD and such into normal classes is retarded. The teacher can't teach and all time goes to keeping the little retard(s) in front of their desks. School helpers are not always available. Besides, these ADHD cases ruin it for the rest of the students as well..

[Hot Lips]

Pussification of the West at its best. With no natural predators in the eco-system, species start to become weak and timid. Best thing we can do is not to raise spoiled, self-centered brats, obsessed with superficial things.

So you think it's a sign of strength when a physically bigger, domineering, or more violent child seeks out someone smaller, weaker, insecure to pick on rather than someone of equal size and ill will? You think this is something to be encouraged?

[Red_Rage]

So you think it's a sign of strength when a physically bigger, domineering, or more violent child seeks out someone smaller, weaker, insecure to pick on rather than someone of equal size and ill will? You think this is something to be encouraged?



No I think it is a sign of weakness when a child succumbs to bigger, domineering, and more violent peers. As hueresiech pointed out, "Turn the other cheek" philosophy is what encourages it.

Self-respect, respect for others, independent thought, and physical and mental strength are values that i believe in. If you instill self-respect alone to your child, he or she will never be a bully and most importantly will never be a fvcking victim.

[Frutzel]

So you think it's a sign of strength when a physically bigger, domineering, or more violent child seeks out someone smaller, weaker, insecure to pick on rather than someone of equal size and ill will? You think this is something to be encouraged?

No I think hes talking about the fact that our society is becoming weak compared to the society 20 or even 10 years ago. To many mobile phones,mp3 players, gaming consoles etc. Back in school I was used to the certainty that one time or another somebody is going to challenge you physically or mentally. I knew what I had to do and accepted it. The kids today are raised in another way. Parents are trying to teach their kids that violence can't stop violence. It sounds good but in reality it won't work if somebody is beating you. Thats life and things like that won't stop for a long time.On the contrary its getting worse from year to year. Things you get to hear are disgusting. Not so long ago a kid was beaten up so badly that he couldn't leave the hospital even 1 week after the incident and that was because of a mobile phone. A friendly and educated society sounds great but many parents don't understand the world their children are living in. So teach your kid how to stand up for himself. "Talk to them and if this doesn't work than give them a lesson that they are dealing with somebody who won't just take the beating" These words are from my father and they worked pretty good in my life.

[kosse]

No I think it is a sign of weakness when a child succumbs to bigger, domineering, and more violent peers. As hueresiech pointed out, "Turn the other cheek" philosophy is what encourages it.

Self-respect, respect for others, independent thought, and physical and mental strength are values that i believe in. If you instill self-respect alone to your child, he or she will never be a bully and most importantly will never be a fvcking victim.

Kids that differ from the mass are often the ones that get bullied. I don't think that's a sign of weakness. It's weakness to run with the pack without having balls to express independent ideas.

In the end, kids develop in different paces and there are always those who are bigger, stronger or meaner and if they want to take out their frustration on someone they will most likely find a way regardless of self-respect of the soon-to-become victim.

Furthermore, a child is not "tabula rasa" that you can mold into some kind of aryan superhuman of your liking. Children should be allowed to be children. Grown-ups are there to protect children so that they can develop at their own speed.

[Holmes85]

The philosophy of "might makes right" is not the course of action one should take to solving their problems, since it encourages the belief that physical altercations is the best method in getting what you want. I personally took martial arts, but never used it to defend myself against my would be tormentors, because for me the exercises were just an outlet for my experiences. I never fought back, because I knew they wanted me to fight back, they wanted a reaction out of me, but I never gave them the satisfaction.

[hsh2]

No I think it is a sign of weakness when a child succumbs to bigger, domineering, and more violent peers.

+ and commits suicide in consequence. Then I would agree fully with you.

Succumbing to someone per se isn't necessarily a sign of weakness, after all one can very well be physically stronger than you.

I'll expound on that a little:

An insecure physically inferior and outnumbered kid gets beaten up and his portable phone robbed at school.---> He gets home, succumbs to feelings of self hate and self pity and kills himself.

A self secure physically inferior and outnumbered kid gets beaten up and his protable phone robbed at school.---> He gets home, angry as fvck (angry rather than sad), tells his parents to contact the principal to have the perps punished as soon as possible, tells his mates (for whatever reason, not necessarily vengeance) and then does something to blow off his steam.



Self-respect, respect for others, independent thought, and physical and mental strength are values that i believe in. If you instill self-respect alone to your child, he or she will never be a bully and most importantly will never be a fvcking victim.IMO one of the best ways in achieving that is a) biweekly physical education at school. Physical education, not anthroposophic dances.
b) Extracurricular free time sports (to be organized by the responsible parents). And again: sports not sporty casual feel good experiences.

[kosse]

IMO one of the best ways in achieving that is a) biweekly physical education at school. Physical education, not anthroposophic dances.
b) Extracurricular free time sports (to be organized by the responsible parents). And again: sports not sporty casual feel good experiences.

It's true that mental and physical well-being often go hand in hand.

But there's a thin line here that need to be treaded carefully. If the sports are too rough it will make the kids hate them and maybe abandon them totally. Sports lessons should always be fun - and make kids feel good at least to some extent. When kids find sports to be fun they are more likely to practise them in their spare time too.

[hsh2]

It's true that mental and physical well-being often go hand in hand.

But there's a thin line here that need to be treaded carefully. If the sports are too rough it will make the kids hate them and maybe abandon them totally. Sports lessons should always be fun - and make kids feel good at least to some extent. When kids find sports to be fun they are more likely to practise them in their spare time too.

Yes sure but that's why having a good sports club/venue is important.

In said environment there will be a structure, there will be incentive (another one of these PC incorrect words nowadays. imagine that, a young kid doing something not completely in vain but with a clear purpose) etc and one will do good (= accomplish something) without being beaten up or anything and the fun, in consequence, will be great. Added value so to speak.

And btw if the sports are too rough (they're not doing MMA afterall are they?), well parents could just say "it's not that bad" instead of always showing compassion for non events frankly. "Oh look mommy I tripped over my shoelaces, waaaaaaaaaaaaaa."
It's like when a baby falls over and cries most parents tell the baby oh that must have hurt oh poor baby etc and almost cry with the baby. I'm all for having compassion when someone has cancer (in fact I lost 2 close family members from it in the last 7 yrs) but a baby that falls over and cries? No. You take it in your arms and tell him it's not that bad, while comforting him/her. Period.

[Red_Rage]

The philosophy of "might makes right" is not the course of action one should take to solving their problems, since it encourages the belief that physical altercations is the best method in getting what you want. I personally took martial arts, but never used it to defend myself against my would be tormentors, because for me the exercises were just an outlet for my experiences. I never fought back, because I knew they wanted me to fight back, they wanted a reaction out of me, but I never gave them the satisfaction.


"Soft might makes it right". I know a few people that had been doing hard-core martial arts like muey thai for 10+ years - they are the nicest, most balanced people i know, who would never pick a fight (and when the fight comes to them, they feel guilty about messing up the other guy too badly). If someone even attempts to physically touch me, my family, or my friends in a way I don't like, i will retaliate, as i think every male should. We are men, and in rare occasions we are are put into situations where we have to get physical (e.g., some tool gets aggressive with your girlfriend/wife right in front of you - are you going to philosophically contemplate the situation and come up with a logical decision of letting it go, or will you intervene?).

Bullies sense fear, weakness and they prey on it. Turning the other cheek just sets the precedent for future tormenting. I've witnessed physically weak guys, who had been abused for years, lash out (taking down guys x3 times their size). Guess what? No one touched them afterward, and their perception of themselves had changed (basically they projected strenth).

Don't get me wrong, i am not advocating physical resolution to all life's problems - brains over brawn should be the rule - but sometimes there are times when you have to bite, claw, and kick.

[hsh2]

The philosophy of "might makes right" is not the course of action one should take to solving their problems, since it encourages the belief that physical altercations is the best method in getting what you want. I personally took martial arts, but never used it to defend myself against my would be tormentors, because for me the exercises were just an outlet for my experiences. I never fought back, because I knew they wanted me to fight back, they wanted a reaction out of me, but I never gave them the satisfaction.

Holmes I honestly got to ask: what makes you think that their goal in bullying you was to get you to show a reaction by fighting back (and potentially smashing their faces in)?

If you ask me they bullied you to experience, live out and project "might" which would have been amplified by you crying fe (perfect reaction in the eyes of a bully). But you fighting back would have been the last thing they wanted IMO...They weren't in for a combat sports Trophy after all.

[Holmes85]

"Soft might makes it right". I know a few people that had been doing hard-core martial arts like muey thai for 10+ years - they are the nicest, most balanced people i know, who would never pick a fight (and when the fight comes to them, they feel guilty about messing up the other guy too badly). If someone even attempts to physically touch me, my family, or my friends in a way I don't like, i will retaliate, as i think every male should. We are men, and in rare occasions we are are put into situations where we have to get physical (e.g., some tool gets aggressive with your girlfriend/wife right in front of you - are you going to philosophically contemplate the situation and come up with a logical decision of letting it go, or will you intervene?).

Bullies sense fear, weakness and they prey on it. Turning the other cheek just sets the precedent for future tormenting. I've witnessed physically weak guys, who had been abused for years, lash out (taking down guys x3 times their size). Guess what? No one touched them afterward, and their perception of themselves had changed (basically they projected strenth).

Don't get me wrong, i am not advocating physical resolution to all life's problems - brains over brawn should be the rule - but sometimes there are times when you have to bite, claw, and kick.

I do personally feel that there are some ways to avoid these confrontations, but even I will admit that these option are not always open to everyone. The first option is to find a group of friends or buddies you can hang out with, because if you have a number of people alongside you it will likely dissuade the aggressor from making a confrontation. Another option available is what I like to call posturing, but sadly this is most effective if you have enough physical presence or are effective enough at presenting yourself to intimidate the would be aggressor.

[Hot Lips]

No I think it is a sign of weakness when a child succumbs to bigger, domineering, and more violent peers. As hueresiech pointed out, "Turn the other cheek" philosophy is what encourages it.

Both parents are accountable for the end result in these situations. What bothers me is when I see people come into conversations like this trying to make excuse after excuse for the instigator. Possibly because they identify with that behavior and therefore think it's acceptable. E.g., "we need predators". Actually, we need to eliminate predators.

It's not necessarily about turning the other cheek if the child, despite best efforts, can not stop a bigger, domineering, or more violent peer from continuing to come at him day in and day out.

The domineering child has issues of his/her own as evidenced by the fact that they seek to build themselves up by attempting to tear down those that they know can not adequately defend themselves against them. Rather than building themselves up through efforts to be a better student, athlete, person or whatever might be their motivation for inflicting harm on others they need to feel better than.


In the end, kids develop in different paces and there are always those who are bigger, stronger or meaner and if they want to take out their frustration on someone they will most likely find a way regardless of self-respect of the soon-to-become victim.

Exactly - parents and schools need to be more diligent in dealing with these children and getting them the help they obviously need.


If someone even attempts to physically touch me, my family, or my friends in a way I don't like, i will retaliate, as i think every male should. We are men.....

He was 12 years old. Not a man.

[Holmes85]

Holmes I honestly got to ask: what makes you think that their goal in bullying you was to get you to show a reaction by fighting back (and potentially smashing their faces in)?

If you ask me they bullied you to experience, live out and project "might" which would have been amplified by you crying fe (perfect reaction in the eyes of a bully). But you fighting back would have been the last thing they wanted IMO...They weren't in for a combat sports Trophy after all.

If I did fight back, I would've have most certainly have lost even with my martial arts training, since I'm actually referring to a group of seven individuals that were always together. (Though this was also high school, so I wouldn't know if they should be considered thugs, delinquents or bullies). Furthermore, I personally don't like the odds of a single individual going up against seven (especially considering some of them wore steel toed shoes). Additionally, I didn't fight back, because they enjoyed any kind of reaction their actions would provoke, so fighting would only encourage them, and I know this from witnessing and hearing about their past altercations.

So if I had fought back, I would have only encouraged more aggression, which is something they would've wanted. Furthermore, the odds were against me in terms of numbers. Lastly, this was in High School, where the repercussions for fighting are harsher than they would be for one kindergarten or elementary.

[Breerman]

Im sorry Holmes but you did it wrong. Its not about winning but about fighting.

[Holmes85]

Im sorry Holmes but you did it wrong. Its not about winning but about fighting.

I was referring back to a question in which someone asked why I didn't fight back, since that would be the last thing the aggressor would be expecting and as a result cease their actions. My response was that these individuals, whether I win or lose to them in a fight would only be further encouraged to continue their actions. For some apparent reason they were fueled or driven by any reaction they received.

Furthermore, in my opinion it's not about fighting or winning, but finding the best alternative to a situation. For me, it was preventing further escalation between me and this group of individuals.

[Breerman]

Im telling you that reasoning is wrong

[Holmes85]

Breerman Wrote:
Im telling you that reasoning is wrong

What, you mean not fighting back? Because, I already, said I didn't believe that it's not about the winning. Are you saying that avoiding the use of force is wrong? Because, I'm personally against the use of violence.

[hsh2]

Im sorry Holmes but you did it wrong. Its not about winning but about fighting.

That was precisely my point hence why i said that "They weren't in for a combat sports Trophy after all". If you as a SOP fight back, they will eventually let go. They're not going to kill you for offending their greatness by fighting back, not worth it, instead they'll search another victim (bad outcome but atleast you're out of the equation) whom they might bully even harder to make up for their lost respect and pride. Like a pig and an electric fence. 1-2 non lethal buzzes (knocking out their leader would probably be counterproductive), maybe 3 but then he knows where to stay clear and finds soemthing else to do in other sectors of his cordon.

On the other hand 7 people at once and all wearing steel toe shoes makes the situation a bit more risky at first...

Or maybe they were indeed in for a Trophy and wanted to be challenged and were even attracted by your MA background as a little accomplishment bonus, I don't know them...

BTW Holmes, your avatar. Is it a joke or is it representative of your honest political beliefs?

[Holmes85]

BTW Holmes, your avatar. Is it a joke or is it representative of your honest political beliefs?

Actually it's more a representation of my culture and heritage. I'm mostly Volga German (German from Russia) in ancestry. This population was part of the European immigration allowed by Catherine the Great in 1762 and 1763. This German population was located along the Volga River within Russia, which was designated by the Soviets as the 'Volga German Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic' after the revolution. However, once Germany launched its 1941 attack on the USSR this region was dissolved with 1 million to 1.5 million Volga Germans deported to the Russian interior. There has always been talk of resettling the region by those who were deported or their families, but this has always been met with stern opposition.

http://flagspot.net/flags/su-wd.html#1st

I Understand what your saying about the fighting bit, I guess my personality also played a part. Unless it's sparring, I'll tend to avoid a fight at any cost, since I tend to be the passive type of individual.

[California Joe]

Some of you jokers are confusing middle school with badly written prison movies.

[Holmes85]

Or a horrible school environment. Not every school is perfect nor is it up to standards.

[seraosha]

Some of you jokers are confusing middle school with badly written prison movies.

Must have been the food.

[Holmes85]

Who'd think that this topic would've stirred this much debate. But, I guess it's just one of those subjects that touches everybody in a way.

[Connaught Ranger]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090602/tuk-traumatised-couple-commit-suicide-wi-a7ad41d.html

Traumatised couple commit suicide with dead son, 5

Tuesday, June 2 02:25 pm
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Print Story (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090602/tuk-traumatised-couple-commit-suicide-wi-a7ad41d.html?printer=1)


A grieving couple jumped to their deaths at a notorious suicide spot near Eastbourne with the body of their dead child in a rucksack, police said on Tuesday. Skip related content (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090602/tuk-traumatised-couple-commit-suicide-wi-a7ad41d.html#ynw-article-part2)
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http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/ne/afp/20090602/13/1593340253-traumatised-couple-commit-suicide-dead-son-5.jpg#200,154
Beachy Head cliffs rise some 162 metres

Coastguard officers found the bodies of the three about 400 feet (122 metres) down the cliff at Beachy Head on the south coast, on Monday.

The parents were identified as Neil Puttick, 34 from Westbury near Bath and his Japanese wife Kazumi, 44. The body of the five-year-old son Samuel was found inside a rucksack alongside them.

A second rucksack found contained soft toys.

The parents had taken their own lives, apparently unable to come to terms with the tragic death of their son from illness (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/illnesses-conditions.html), police said.

"This is a tragic incident and we extend our sympathies to their family and to the large number of friends and carers affected," Detective Inspector Ian Williams from Sussex Police said.

A hospital official said the little boy had been receiving treatment for pneumococcal meningitis at the Bristol Royal Hospital for Children.

"When it became clear that Sam had no hope of recovery from his severe infection, he was discharged to his family home on Friday at his parents' request to die peacefully," a spokesman for Bath and North East Somerset NHS (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fc/nhs.html) said.

"He was certified dead at his home by a doctor at approximately 8pm that evening."There are many various reasons for people taking there own lives, as seen by the above.

I think comments with regards a young 12 year old, such as "he should have been more of a man, blah . . . blah . . . blah" are at best stupid,

We did not know the boy, we did not know the personal fears and stress he endured, real or imagined, and hopefully, we will never have to endure a family member or close friend who takes such a course of action.

My sympathy to any of our members who have had to face such a situation and may those who have taken such action +Rest In Peace+

Connaught Ranger.

[Rudolph]

RIP.

At that age kids react to their environment, they do not shape it... :(

[IraGlacialis]

R.I.P.
And may those ingrates have what coming to them. I have no tolerance for bullies. Kids, as much as we like for them to be tougher, do not usually cope with such things in the same way as adults. It usually doesn't lead to suicide, and they usually recover when older, but it can still be quite damaging at the time.

How could you possibly live with yourself knowing you contributed to a kid killing himself.
I remember, back when I was a senior in high school, some 6th grader in our town shot himself in the head in his backyard. Apparently, he was bullied to an extreme level and that was probably the main cause for his suicide.
You know what the kicker was? The kids who bullied him were joking about that incident afterwards. Even some of my peers were unsympathetic in stating that it was better that he offed himself because he looked like a recipe for another school shooting.
Kids can be vicious ****ers.