China Requires Censoring on New PCs

[Ordie]

This new government policy will only hurt China.

The CCP is behaving more like their 15th century counterparts when it turned inwards halting innovation and progress for 500 years.




June 9, 2009

China Requires Censoring on New PCs

By ANDREW JACOBS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/j/andrew_jacobs/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
BEIJING — China (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/china/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) has issued a sweeping directive requiring all personal computers sold in the country to include sophisticated software that can filter out ****ography and other “unhealthy information” from the Internet.
The software, which manufacturers must install on all new PCs starting July 1, would allow the government to regularly update computers with an ever-changing list of banned Web sites.
The rules, issued last month in a government directive, ratchet up Internet restrictions that are already among the most stringent in the world. China regularly blocks Web sites that discuss the Dalai Lama (http://www.dalailama.com/), the 1989 crackdown on Tiananmen Square protesters, and the Falun Gong, (http://www.falundafa.org/) the banned spiritual movement.
But free-speech advocates say they fear the new software could make it even more difficult for China’s 300 million Internet users to obtain uncensored news and information.
“This is a very bad thing,” said Charles Mok, chairman of the Hong Kong chapter of the Internet Society (http://www.isoc.org/), an international advisory group on Internet standards. “It’s like downloading spyware onto your computer, but the government is the spy.”
Called Green Dam (http://www.lssw365.net/) — a reference to slogans that describe a smut-free Internet as “green” — the software is designed to filter out ******ly explicit images and words, according to the company that designed it. Computer experts, however, warn that once installed, the software could be directed to block all manner of content or allow the government to monitor Internet use and collect personal information.
Details of the new regulations, which were posted Monday on a government Web site, were first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
PC makers who serve the Chinese market, among them Dell (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/dell_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org), Lenovo and Hewlett-Packard (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/hewlett_packard_corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org), said they were studying the new rules and declined to comment. But privately, industry executives in the United States said they were unnerved by the new rules, which were issued by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology with no consultation and no advance warning.
Beyond the nettlesome issue of abetting government censorship, they said six weeks was not enough time to shift production on such a large scale. “Many of us are going to take it in the neck with this mandate,” said one executive. “It has put people into five-alarm mode.”
This is not the first time that foreign companies have been enlisted in government efforts to police the Internet. Google (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/google_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) already removes politically forbidden results yielded by its popular search engine, Microsoft (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/microsoft_corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) allows censors to block content on its blog service and Yahoo (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/yahoo_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) was widely criticized for turning over information that was used to jail a journalist.
“I would advise dissidents to buy computers before July 1,” said Clothilde Le Coz, the head of the Internet freedom desk of Reporters Without Borders.
More than 40 million personal computers were sold last year in China, one of the fastest growing markets. Despite the slowing economy, industry analysts expect that figure to rise by 3 percent this year.
A group of industry representatives met with American officials Monday to express their displeasure with the new rules, said Susan N. Stevenson, a spokeswoman for the United States Embassy in Beijing. “We view any attempt to restrict the free flow of information with great concern,” she said.
Zhang Chenming, general manager of Jinhui Computer System Engineering, a company that helped create Green Dam, said worries that the software could be used to censor a broad range of content or monitor Internet use were overblown. He insisted that the software, which neutralizes programs designed to override China’s so-called Great Firewall, could simply be deleted or temporarily turned off by the user. “A parent can still use this computer to go to ****,” he said.
Although the directive is somewhat imprecise and suggests that manufacturers can provide the software as a compact disc, it also says that it must be installed on computer hard drives as a backup file. The five-point circular uses the word “preinstall” repeatedly and the first clause unequivocally states: “Imported computers shall preinstall the latest available version of the ‘Green Dam’ software before they are sold in China.”
Manufacturers complain that they have had been given little guidance by Chinese authorities. “The wording may be intentionally vague, but the message is clear: we have no choice in the matter,” said one computer executive who spoke on condition of anonymity because some companies are hoping they can persuade the government to ease the requirements.
Industry experts and civil libertarians say they are worried the software may simply be a Trojan horse for greater Internet control. The software developers have ties to China’s military and public security agencies, they point out, and Green Dam’s backers say the effort is supported by Li Changchun, the country’s chief propaganda official and a member of the decision-making body of the Communist Party, the Politburo Standing Committee.
The software will be provided free, paid for by the government, and according to the official Green Dam Web site, it has already been downloaded 3.2 million times. That figure includes thousands of schools that were required to install the software by the end of May. The site claims that Chinese manufacturers, including Lenovo, Inspur and Hedy, have already agreed to install 52 million copies of the software on new computers.
In recent months China has tightened its Internet restrictions, including an “antivulgarity” campaign that has closed down thousands of ****ographic sites but also non****** sites, including some of the most popular bulletin boards and blog hosts. China already employs more than 30,000 censors and thousands who “guide public opinion” by flooding bulletin boards with comments favorable to the Communist Party.
Last week, as the 20th anniversary of the military crackdown at Tiananmen approached, the government blocked a host of Internet services, including Twitter (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/twitter/index.html?inline=nyt-org), Microsoft’s live.com (http://live.com/) and Flickr, a photo-sharing site, though by Monday evening, these sites had become available again. YouTube (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/youtube/index.html?inline=nyt-org) has been inaccessible in China outside Hong Kong since March.
Even beyond ethical concerns, those who have tested the new software describe it as technically flawed. An American software engineer said it led machines to crash frequently. Others worry that it could leave tens of millions of computers vulnerable to hackers. So far, at least, there is no version for the Linux operating system and Apple (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/apple_computer_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org)’s Macintosh system.
The directive makes no mention of the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macao, but one industry association executive said companies had been told that these areas are exempt from the new rules.
On Monday, Green Dam’s own Web site offered a hint of discontent over the filtering software. On the bulletin board section of the site, one writer described it as a “web devil” and several users complained that ****ographic images slipped through or that their computers had become painfully slow. “It seems pretty lousy so far,” one posting said. “It’s not very powerful, I can’t surf the Internet normally and it’s affecting the operation of other software.”
By Monday night, however, most of the comments had been deleted.
Zhang Jing and Xiyun Yang contributed research.



Source:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/09/world/asia/09china.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

[Blue_0]

The Bizzare actions of the mad.

[RICHICOQUI]

China already employs more than 30,000 censors and thousands who “guide public opinion” by flooding bulletin boards Some are in here on this forum!!!

[FrankBooth0]

Keyboard cat is national threat


“A parent can still use this computer to go to ****,” he said.


Worries of millions gone

[Bulletproof]

Of course Dell, HP, Microcrap & Cie will follow. Money money money.

[Ordie]

China already employs more than 30,000 censors and thousands who “guide public opinion” by flooding bulletin boards Some are in here on this forum!!!

You get what you're paid for at 50 cents a post.

[Ordie]

What is forbidden becomes seductive.
I see a black market for unaltered PCs.

[Scriptable]

The Chicom apologists are slow with a response on this one. They must be trying to get their story straight about why this is good for the Chinese people.

[little icebear]

They should learn from the German government and just claim, that these actions are first and foremost meant, to fight child****ographie.
Everbody who opposes censorship is a pedophile. Case closed.

[SkyUS]

How hard would it be to remove this software? A format of the hard drive? Probably.

Unless they install some hardware based chips with software censoring all of the forbidden **** and political taboos.

[Alpheus]

They should learn from the German government and just claim, that these actions are first and foremost meant, to fight child****ographie.
Everbody who opposes censorship is a pedophile. Case closed.

And we have our first Chicom troll! j/k

[PVJ]

Banning ****?......the horror....the horror.

[Ordie]

And we have our first Chicom troll! j/k

They don't know it yet...but they'll soon be unemployed and replaced by software.

Now they'll need to work for a living.

[Mu-Meson]

Its the logic evolution of censorship. Inevitable really. Why duke it out on the internet, when you can screw over people before they even plug in their computer.

[Scriptable]

What would Jackie Chan say?


Action star Jackie Chan said Saturday he's not sure if a free society is a good thing for China and that he's starting to think "we Chinese need to be controlled."

Chan's comments drew applause from a predominantly Chinese audience of business leaders in China's southern island province of Hainan.

"I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not," Chan said. "I'm really confused now. If you're too free, you're like the way Hong Kong is now. It's very chaotic. Taiwan is also chaotic."

Chan added: "I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want."


OMFG! We can't have people just "doing what they want"!

[Ordie]

OMFG! We can't have people just "doing what they want"!

Just let them censor themselves to the point of diminishing returns on innovation and fresh ideas.

It will only give the free world (Japan, India, Taiwan, South Korea, Europe) a competitive advantage.

[Jiggy]

They should learn from the German government and just claim, that these actions are first and foremost meant, to fight child****ographie.
Everbody who opposes censorship is a pedophile. Case closed.

lol their not banning **** per se, thats more or less an excuse.

most likely their banning anything that goes against chinese propaganda.

why is this a surprise ?

[FlintHillBilly]

So ive decided to start a new business... secretly distributing **** to all the chinese. Im pretty sure i could make alot of money if i didnt get caught. I will feel pretty patriotic about it too, as we will be helping ease the debt load of this country.

[Blue_0]

Think about all the money that can be made right here in the USA by making **** software that bypasses these restrictions (think .exe) and allows Chinese men to develope a taste for American girls.

-- Bluelight

[Shuimo]

I was really amazed to learn this latest piece of CPC censorship! Totally unacceptable! It is just another resplendent move of totalitarian control over civilian life!

Just look at the survey of this Chinese portal website, and an overwhelming majority of the 25380 people taking the survey are against such censorship craft and regard this as a gross violation of adults' privacy! They just support public places such as Internet cafes and schools to adopt such censorship!
http://survey.news.ifeng.com/result.php?surveyId=1051

PS: Ordie, you are really sharp-nosed of what is going on here. Good!
I didn't expect you to be this efficient and quick responsive! Even I just learned the news this morning!

[sinophile]

One of the really wonderful and admirable qualities of Chinese culture very ingenious & clever subtlety.

The people who created this technology didn't bother explaining to those who requested it how easy it is to circumvent. I'm sure they enthusiastically supported the idea, while snickering to themselves.

There will be many hungry cats soundly asleep while the ingenious mice run wild on the internet.

There are similar examples in US technology.

[King of the Grey]

banning ****! How Dare Them!

and a measly 30,000 Net-police keeping the harmony on the internet! I am so disappointed! If you're gonna be a complete ass of an authoritarian government, at least give it a 100% effort y'know...You don't tease the public, aka employing only 30,000 net police to maintain the Great Fire Wall, obvious censorships, obvious pro-govt threads, and then clamp down, cos that just creates dissent!

Stupid CCP...should've gone the "1984" route, govern through total fear and mis-information. then we won't even need to comment on China, thus no more 'intruding on other countries internal affairs' or 'damaging the feelings and goodwill of the Chinese people'

[LazerLordz]

That's why since time immemorial, Chinese have always left in search for a better life abroad.

And hell, it's been a choice that all their descendants never looked back on. rofl

[Shuimo]

One of the really wonderful and admirable qualities of Chinese culture very ingenious & clever subtlety.

The people who created this technology didn't bother explaining to those who requested it how easy it is to circumvent. I'm sure they enthusiastically supported the idea, while snickering to themselves.

There will be many hungry cats soundly asleep while the ingenious mice run wild on the internet.

There are similar examples in US technology.

Absolutely! Oddly enough, Chinese people are increasinly being forced to play double-personality!rofl
Another example is pirated CDs, everywhere on the streets regardless the crackdown!

[Shuimo]

lol their not banning **** per se, thats more or less an excuse.

most likely their banning anything that goes against chinese propaganda.

why is this a surprise ?
I have the same suspicion as well, given the consistent style of the Chinese gov.
**** ban is just conveniently used as a fig cloth!

[King of the Grey]

man i love the Chinese underworld. Keeping us in HK happy with pirate DVDs, Wii games, PS3, A-Grade-Fake-Gucci, newest movies, loads of translated and uncensored Japanese AV.

You guys know the movie the HK film 'Triad' by Johnny To? well its essentially about triads in HK, but it can't be shown in mainland cos...well mainland doesnt have triads and they don't want criminals to get the idea of banding together to make more money. Nope, mainland only have serial rapists, arsonists, murderers, but no organized crime. No Kingpins. Why? coz they're all in the government! shhhhhhhhh

[Shuimo]

What is forbidden becomes seductive.
I see a black market for unaltered PCs.

That is for sure in this case!

[Ritual]

"loads of translated and uncensored Japanese AV."

wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut p-)

[JJC]

I never understood why commie nations historically feared adult entertainment industries in their countries? Why can't the **** industry be loyal commie party members and express their cultural achievements through natural art?

[Scriptable]

I never understood why commie nations historically feared adult entertainment industries in their countries?
Forget the commies, I never understood why America is so rabidly fearful of nudity. One exposed nipple and the nation goes into a frenzy. People, even the president has two of them, get over it.

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

Forget the commies, I never understood why America is so rabidly fearful of nudity. One exposed nipple and the nation goes into a frenzy. People, even the president has two of them, get over it.

Maybe America is a bunch of closet commies! p-)

Its like the question why Tom Cruise is always running away in his movies...he is running away from his gay thoughts...

http://tomcruisecantescape.ytmnd.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQlCQBrAyg

Ouch, didnt see that one coming! rofl

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_immigration


Really? You mean this dont you? I am sure most Canadians, Americans, New Zealanders, Australians, most of Central and South Americas, South Africa (and several other African countries) and New Caledonians would agree.



That's why since time immemorial, Europeans have always left in search for a better life abroad.

And hell, it's been a choice that all their descendants never looked back on.

Talk about glass houses and large stones...

[hskywalker]

These are application level softwares which could be removed. I am all for it. The parents should be able to stop children from watching ****, while themselves can watch it by removing that.

[Ordie]

These are application level softwares which could be removed. I am all for it. The parents should be able to stop children from watching ****, while themselves can watch it by removing that.


If that is the case then individual parents can install parental controls without the need for government.

The government mandate of censorship software on the premise on blocking **** is a pretext for blocking other websites in connection with democracy, falun gong, Tibet, internal uprisings and demonstrations.

I find it hypocritical of the CCP on banning **** when in fact they operate hotels providing free **** on TV and cadres shagging thier 'secretaries' behind the backs of thier spouces.

[hskywalker]

If that is the case then individual parents can install parental controls without the need for government.

The government mandate of censorship software on the premise on blocking **** is a pretext for blocking other websites in connection with democracy, falun gong, Tibet, internal uprisings and demonstrations.

I find it hypocritical of the CCP on banning **** when in fact they operate hotels providing free **** on TV and cadres shagging thier 'secretaries' behind the backs of thier spouces.
The government is alreadly blocking everything from open source software projects to analysis of corporation financial reports for unknown reasons. This is China, the government don't need excuse or explanation to do something, they just do it.
Since those sites will get blocked anyway, why doesn't facilitate some parents by offering a free software so they can block some ****s? Many parents know less about computer than their child, so they can just trust these softwares. Most parents cares about ****ograph more than democracy or tibet.

[hskywalker]

There was a time when the most popular portal websites in China are filled with words like "big breast", "vargina" at their front pages. Like nasdaq stocks "SINA", "SOHU", "NTES". Very annoying when you want to read some news, you got all these words in your sight. These thing doesn't appear on cnn, or yahoo, did they? Internet ****ography is a more serious problem here.

[Femto]

A friend of mine went to UAE for holidays and when he tried to access his server he could not connect to his pc in Athens . He tried to nslookup the Domain name and he got a redirection server(another ip instead of his own) . He tried to change name server he could not connect to an outside name server . He tried with just his ip another redirection he got very frustrated .

Its not only china , other countries censoring also .

[Ordie]

Many parents know less about computer than their child, so they can just trust these softwares. Most parents cares about ****ograph more than democracy or tibet.

Parents can download parental controls for free from the internet. It does not need government help. Government have better things to do such as arresting Tibetians or something.


The government is alreadly blocking everything from open source software projects to analysis of corporation financial reports for unknown reasons.

This is the reason why Shanghai, Beijing and Guagzhou will never fully realize its potential as a global financial center.

[Ordie]

There was a time when the most popular portal websites in China are filled with words like "big breast", "vargina" at their front pages. Like nasdaq stocks "SINA", "SOHU", "NTES". Very annoying when you want to read some news, you got all these words in your sight. These thing doesn't appear on cnn, or yahoo, did they? Internet ****ography is a more serious problem here.

Then don't use the internet and buy a newspaper.

[Ordie]

A friend of mine went to UAE for holidays and when he tried to access his server he could not connect to his pc in Athens . He tried to nslookup the Domain name and he got a redirection server(another ip instead of his own) . He tried to change name server he could not connect to an outside name server . He tried with just his ip another redirection he got very frustrated .

Its not only china , other countries censoring also .

These only act as barriers to progress and innovation.

[Shuimo]

These only act as barriers to progress and innovation.

Ordie, could you plz tell us honestly in yr knowledge----------
Does the US gov exercise censorship???:bash:

[Shuimo]

Then don't use the internet and buy a newspaper.

How can the newspaper compare with the real-time Internet?
It's the difference between snail mail and email!:slap:

[LazerLordz]

Really? You mean this dont you? I am sure most Canadians, Americans, New Zealanders, Australians, most of Central and South Americas, South Africa (and several other African countries) and New Caledonians would agree.



Talk about glass houses and large stones...

So, what's your point? That the Chinese diaspora is a troublesome thing? :roll:

[hskywalker]

Read from some test reports that this software is a crappy dangerous spy surveilance software that can't easily be removed. Well, at least the government says it can be removed...Should not totally trust what government says.:roll:

Anyway, I am sure I can remove it with a little knowledge. Still don't want it on my computer.

[Shuimo]

Read from some test reports that this software is a crappy dangerous spy surveilance software that can't easily be removed. Well, at least the government says it can be removed...Should not totally trust what government says.:roll:

Anyway, I am sure I can remove it with a little knowledge. Still don't want it on my computer.

Yeah, you have to take caution about what the offcials said!
My computer doesn't need to be upgraded yet!
I wud definitelly rid off such surveillance crap if I buy a new one!
The whole idea just sickens me!:cantbeli:

[Karaahmetoglu]

There country there rules, there culture.

It may be odd rules to us outsiders, but every country has a few of these. That are odd to outsiders.

[Angelino]

1. Buy cheap PC at local Shenzhen PC store
2. Step outside PC store and buy cheaper pirated copy of Windows from street vendor for < $5
3. Format hard disk and install Windows from pirated CD onto PC.
4. ???
5. Profit!

[Ordie]

Ordie, could you plz tell us honestly in yr knowledge----------
Does the US gov exercise censorship???:bash:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
-1st Amendment US Constitution.

Answer is no.

[Ordie]

How can the newspaper compare with the real-time Internet?
It's the difference between snail mail and email!:slap:

If you don't like **** ads on your website, then don't use the internet.

[Shuimo]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
-1st Amendment US Constitution.

Answer is no.
In your knowledge, that is NO!
I take it!

But do you want us to really believe that the US gov exercises no censorship?

[Noble713]

So ive decided to start a new business... secretly distributing **** to all the chinese. Im pretty sure i could make alot of money if i didnt get caught. I will feel pretty patriotic about it too, as we will be helping ease the debt load of this country.

I had this idea as well....until I read ~2 years ago about two Chinese **** webmasters who were sentenced to death for it (of course I can't find a source now).

EDIT: Maybe this is what I meant. This guy got life in prison.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-417983/China-sentences-web-****-king-life-prison.html
A Chinese court has sentenced the founder of the country's largest ****ography website to life imprisonment and jailed another eight of the site's organisers, state media reported.
The Taiyuan Intermediate People's Court handed down the sentence to Chen Hui, 28, and ordered the confiscation of 100,000 yuan ($12,500), Xinhua news agency said. The other eight were jailed for terms ranging from 13 months to 10 years.
Chen founded "****ographic Summer" in 2004 and went on to start three more ****ography Web sites, making money by charging registration fees of $25 to $33 to some of the 600,000 members they attracted.
The report cited police as saying it was difficult to know how much money Chen made from the sites, since most of it was spent or squirreled away in foreign bank accounts.
Chen evaded closure by regularly changing the domain name and server, the report said.
****ography was among the vices nearly wiped out in China under the strict and puritanical rule of Mao Zedong. But since economic reforms began and social controls have loosened, it has become more readily available.
China also has an army of cyber police who patrol the Internet for unfavourable content, but their targets are more often politically sensitive subjects than ****ography.

[Shuimo]

If you don't like **** ads on your website, then don't use the internet.
Shuimo wouldn't throw the babe with the bathing waters!roflrofl

[Holmes85]

1. Buy cheap PC at local Shenzhen PC store
2. Step outside PC store and buy cheaper pirated copy of Windows from street vendor for < $5
3. Format hard disk and install Windows from pirated CD onto PC.
4. ???
5. Profit!

You know your making Bill Gates cry.

[FabeYond]

In your knowledge, that is NO!
I take it!

But do you want us to really believe that the US gov exercises no censorship?

Maybe you should provide examples of where the US government applies censorship...

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

So, what's your point? That the Chinese diaspora is a troublesome thing? :roll:


I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate your self in public. So lets begin...
I pointed out that your statement is historically and factually incorrect, if we are to take your "time immemorial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial)" at face value. I have included a wiki definition of the term for your reference, in case you did not actually know the meaning of the term but was merely using it as a colloquial metaphor.
My point is quite clear to anyone with a grain of self awareness, common sense knowledge and respect. Now if you really want me to help point out the obvious to you its really easy, just follow the way you came in and exit.
To answer the above assertion, the Chinese diaspora has been one of the most productive and vibrant community everywhere in the world. They have contributed to their adopted countries, and also given back alot to their ancestral homeland, both in material and in people.
Instead of taking a sip from the fountain of STFU and think about your ignorant and asinine remark, you instead decide to come out swinging and make another one. Really I think you spent too much time in Singapore, and have picked up the horrible local medical condition known as "loss" of face. Obviously you are a bit low on that great Aussie condition that is associated with a river of tears, involves building a bridge, and get the fcuk over it.
I will just let you know that if you do decide to reply again to me with anything other than introspection of your first remark I will not bother replying. I like posting on mp.net but not that much.

As for myself, I regret that I made a remark that may be construed as disrespectful to the reasons and slighting the sacrifices/hardship endured by the countless European migrants, colonialist, convicts, pilgrims, refugees and emigrants whom for reasons of war, civil/political strife, religious persecution, famine, genocide, injustice and simply just a search for a better life abroad, have made the fateful journey that all their descendants today never looked back on. I offer my deepest apologies to all.



PS. I will try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.

[Shuimo]

Maybe you should provide examples of where the US government applies censorship...

In all honesty, I suspect the US gov is practicing a sort of camouflaged censorship hardly noticed by ordinary folks like you and me and Ordie!:hug:

[FabeYond]

In all honesty, I suspect the US gov is practicing a sort of camouflaged censorship hardly noticed by ordinary folks like you and me and Ordie!:hug:

It is possible, of course. Because it would be normal for a government to act like that. That's why democracies have a constitution or something similar to restrict government power. And if the US government would apply censorship and people would find out, the government would have to do a lot of explaining.
In Germany we have a constitution, too. And it forbids censorship. Yet our government tries to implement a censorship policy. There is a lot of resistance but I think they have a chance of success. In the US it would be different, I think. Remember why the US constitution was created. It was created because of abusive governments. The people had to fight for their freedom. Of course this happened a long time ago but I think that US citizens are taught about this important point of history and are urged to remember why the US constitution was created in the first place. That's why I think that censorship is a lot less likely to happen in the US than in other countries.

[Altavista]

China already employs more than 30,000 censors and thousands who “guide public opinion” by flooding bulletin boards Some are in here on this forum!!!
p-) haha, dont worry, buddy, no "Chinese censors" is interested in affecting Americans politics opinion. Chinese people are still living on the earth, we are not Martian.
so far as i know, this policy is just want to protect kids from getting some juck websites, such as Japanese AV website and videos.:)

[Ordie]

so far as i know, this policy is just want to protect kids from getting some juck websites, such as Japanese AV website and videos.:)

I know you're smarter than that.

It's a pre-text for greater censoring and information control of the Chinese people ideas, thoughts and opinions.

The government is taking advantage of your fear of internet-**** as a means to maintain thier status quo because they don't want to lose thier privilaged positions.

[Altavista]

I know you're smarter than that.

It's a pre-text for greater censoring and information control of the Chinese people ideas, thoughts and opinions.

The government is taking advantage of your fear of internet-**** as a means to maintain thier status quo because they don't want to lose thier privilaged positions.
I can understand your opinion.
maybe its really a stupid policy and bad idea. currently, the focus isnt the technology, lots of families in China already installed this software for protecting kidds. i am a father, i must do that. the question is, they didnt ask the publics whether they can accept it. and in the mean time, publics want to know whether there exists "relation" (malversation) between govenment and this software company.

[Ordie]

It seems the plan is backfiring.




China's Internet Filtering Plan Widely Criticized
Critics claim "Green Dam Youth Escort" Internet filtering software for PCs violates licensing agreements and anti-monopoly laws.

By Thomas Claburn, InformationWeek (http://www.informationweek.com/;jsessionid=UK5R4YLAUGKOYQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN)
June 11, 2009
URL: http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217800830 (http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217800830)


The Chinese government's mandate that all personal computers sold in China include Web filtering software (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=software&x=&y=) has prompted widespread criticism, both inside and outside China.
Those opposed to the plan -- which requires all PCs sold in the country after July 1 to include "Green Dam Youth Escort" software to prevent "the poisoning of our youth's minds by harmful information" -- say the software would make computers less secure and expose private data.
Critics also claim the software relies on code developed by third parties in violation of licensing agreements, and that it violates anti-monopoly laws, wastes public money, and doesn't work very well.
An English translation (http://www.zonaeuropa.com/200906a.brief.htm#017) of user comments on the EastSouthWestNorth blog (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=blog&x=&y=) shows broad dissatisfaction with the software and the Chinese government's plan.
U.S. computer (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=computer&x=&y=) makers have been more diplomatic in their observations. "Dell is aware of the policy and along with the rest of the industry we're reviewing it and will work with government officials to understand its application," a Dell spokesperson said.
"HP is working closely with the trade industry association ITI to seek additional information, clarify open questions, and monitor (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=monitor&x=&y=) developments on this matter," a Hewlett-Packard spokesperson said in an e-mail.
The Information Technology (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=Information Technology&x=&y=) Industry Council (ITI), a trade group that counts both Dell and HP as members, voiced slightly stronger opposition on Tuesday. The ITI, along with the Software & Information Industry Association, the Telecommunications Industry Association, and TechAmerica, urged "the Chinese government to reconsider implementing its new mandatory filtering software requirement and would welcome the opportunity for a meaningful dialogue. We believe there should be an open and healthy dialogue on how parental control software can be offered in the market in ways that ensure privacy, system reliability, freedom of expression, the free flow of information, security and user choice."
It remains to be seen how the Chinese government's mandate will affect Apple, given that the Green Dam software only works on computers running Windows. Apple, a member of the ITIC, did not respond to a request for comment.
In a release (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-06/11/content_11522822.htm) from the Xinhua News Agency, which is controlled by the Chinese government, Zhang Chenmin, general manager of Jinhui Computer System Engineering Co., maker of Green Dam, defended his company's software. He insisted that the software is optional, isn't turned on by default, and isn't spyware.
Although Jinhui's founder told The Wall Street Journal that that the software's purpose was to block ****ographic content, a collaborative analysis of Green Dam (https://docs.google.com/View?id=afk7vnz54wt_12f8jzj9gw) posted to Google (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=Google&x=&y=) Docs claims that the software also blocks political terms like Falun Gong.
If the requirement to install Green Dam is observed, Firefox may see its usage soar in China. Green Dam reportedly doesn't work with Firefox (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=Firefox&x=&y=) or works unreliably. The same may be true for Apple's Safari (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=Safari&x=&y=) Web browser, which isn't among the compatible browsers listed in the collaborative analysis.
The Green Dam software has already been installed more than 2 million times and is present in about 80% of elementary and high schools in China, according to the Chinese government. Rebecca MacKinnon, assistant professor at the Journalism & Media Studies Center at the University of Hong Kong, believes that the Chinese government will come to realize that its mandate is unworkable. "As the week progresses I'm putting more of my money on the likelihood that the Green Dam filtering software edict will not get implemented, or efforts at enforcement will fade quickly," she said in a blog post (http://rconversation.blogs.com/rconversation/2009/06/green-dam-filtering-software-scorned-by-many-chinese.html) on Wednesday. "One thing Western observers need to remember is that China has a long history of edicts targeted at the tech, telecoms, and media sectors going unenforced, quietly retracted, or morphed in practice into something very different."

Source:http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/privacy/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217800830

[Ordie]

China Internet filter challenged in rights uproar


*******
Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:36 AM

BEIJING (*******) - A Chinese lawyer has demanded a public hearing to reconsider a government demand that all new personal computers carry Internet filtering software, adding to uproar over a plan critics say is ineffective and intrusive.
Li Fangping, a Beijing human rights advocate who often embraces controversial causes, has asked the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology to allow hearings on the "lawfulness and reasonableness" of the demand, which takes effect from July 1 and was publicized only this week.
"This administrative action lacks a legal basis," Li wrote in a submission to the ministry that was sent to reporters by email on Thursday.
"Designating that the same software must be installed in all computers affects citizens' rights to choose."
Li's demand, and denunciations of the plan from Chinese rights groups, have expanded a public battle over the "Green Dam" filtering software, despite a state media effort to promote the software as a welcome way to prevent children being exposed to ****ography.
Many citizens worry such software and other measures are being imposed to deter discussion of sensitive political topics, especially in this year of controversial anniversaries, Li told *******.
"Above all, we're concerned about freedom of speech and the right to know," he said. "We know that citizens have been prosecuted because of their private emails, and we're worried about more such cases."
Chinese human rights and gay advocacy groups have demanded the software plan be immediately quashed.
A statement from five groups sent by email said the software threatened to cripple access to many of the gay community websites that have flourished in recent years.
The software works by judging whether website pages may show large amounts of exposed flesh.
Wan Yanhai, a leader of the Beijing-based Aizhixing organization, which works on AIDS and gay rights, said he was preparing a mass petition to mobilize opposition to the software.
"We need to demand not just the lifting of this software decree, but also an end to restrictions on gay publications," Wan told *******. "This is about opposing censorship."
Chinese state media have promoted the compulsory installation plan as an effective way to staunch the flow of ****ography, which is banned in China but widely available.
"If you have children or are expecting a child you could understand the concerns of the parents over unhealthy online content," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang told reporters on Tuesday.
State television news said the software can be shut off and erased if users choose, and does not collect personal information.
China is one of the world's fastest-growing PC markets, and has hundreds of millions of Internet users. Research firm Gartner forecasts total PC shipments will climb by about 3 percent this year to more than 42 million units.
Li, the rights lawyer, said the ruling Communist Party is especially wary of dissent and controversy this year, the 20th anniversary of the 1989 pro-democracy protests ended by a bloody crackdown.
"How the government responds in the end will depend on the response from Chinese Internet-users," he said. "If it's strong, they'll back down, and may let the plan quietly die."
(Editing by Sugita Katyal)

Source:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/11/AR2009061100148_pf.html

[Altavista]

It seems the plan is backfiring.
Source:http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/privacy/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217800830
this time, the public win. or maybe the next, a public hearing will be released. we do need something to protect our kidds far away from Japanese AVs. but we dislike a stupid forced policy and law to install this software.

[Ordie]

this time, the public win. or maybe the next, a public hearing will be released. we do need something to protect our kidds far away from Japanese AVs. but we dislike a stupid forced policy and law to install this software.

Take more initiative and responsibility and be a more involved parent.
Turn off the computer and set rules for the kids.

[Altavista]

Take more initiative and responsibility and be a more involved parent.
Turn off the computer and set rules for the kids.
ye. maybe you're right. Chinese parent always take more initiative and responsibility. my parents did this to me, i do this to my kid, and my kid will do this to his kid. :roll:
(some times, Chinese government always do sth like this, i dont think it is despotism, it just like a parent, the government want to take care of all people, also do some stupid things and release some stupid policy. far away from this topic.)

[King of the Grey]

Altvista

protect our kidds far away from Japanese AVs

whats wrong about Japanese AVs??

truth is, kids get attracted to **** no matter how you enforce the laws/have responsible parents. The harder you suppress, the more mutated the desire becomes, and that is common human pschology. For example...look at the numerous cases of clergymen molesting little kids...their religion forbades ****** engagement or passion, and see what that made many of these people.

[FabeYond]

ye. maybe you're right. Chinese parent always take more initiative and responsibility. my parents did this to me, i do this to my kid, and my kid will do this to his kid. :roll:
(some times, Chinese government always do sth like this, i dont think it is despotism, it just like a parent, the government want to take care of all people, also do some stupid things and release some stupid policy. far away from this topic.)

Yes, the government wants to protect the people. At least, this is often the case. But people should be responsible for themselves and even be allowed to do stupid things. Trying to control everything simply doesn't work. And the bigger problem is: If you give the government too much power, it will misuse that power eventually. Because the government is made up of humans.

[Altavista]

Yes, the government wants to protect the people. At least, this is often the case. But people should be responsible for themselves and even be allowed to do stupid things. Trying to control everything simply doesn't work. And the bigger problem is: If you give the government too much power, it will misuse that power eventually. Because the government is made up of humans.
ye. that's why the public argue against this stupid pilicy. in the past 30 years (from 1978-2009), people are trying to decrease govenment's power. China are learning sth from America, such as the Public Hearing, basic election rule, ect. and also privatize enterprises. sth have been changed slow and step by step in the past 30 years, so complex. i think.

[FabeYond]

ye. that's why the public argue against this stupid pilicy. in the past 30 years (from 1978-2009), people are trying to decrease govenment's power. China are learning sth from America, such as the Public Hearing, basic election rule, ect. and also privatize enterprises. sth have been changed slow and step by step in the past 30 years, so complex. i think.

Yes, it looks like you are on a good path. And the people of your country seem to be benefitting from it. Of course, more freedoms will bring other problems (people will misuse their freedoms, do stupid things, etc.). And the government has a harder job. It doesn't have complete freedom to do what it wants anymore and that can harm progress. But overall I think that the systems with restricted government powers and more freedoms for the citizins work out (much) better than those where the government has too much power and wants to control too much (like in many failed socialist/communist states).

[Altavista]

Yes, it looks like you are on a good path. And the people of your country seem to be benefitting from it. Of course, more freedoms will bring other problems (people will misuse their freedoms, do stupid things, etc.). And the government has a harder job. It doesn't have complete freedom to do what it wants anymore and that can harm progress. But overall I think that the systems with restricted government powers and more freedoms for the citizins work out (much) better than those where the government has too much power and wants to control too much (like in many failed socialist/communist states).
right. it doesnt make sense to control public too much. and China govenment also learn sth from USSR. that's what and why Chinese always talk about "the China special way". and in the mean time, we also research Indian, in 1950s, India is much more richer than China, but it isn't yet now. this county is missing their way. we research and learn from U.S, try to copy the success mode, just do the same things as Americans done 1 hundred years ago. we also must aviod the great depression, activate local market, and popularize National Insurance, this policy come from president Roosevelt who saved Americans from the Great Depression.

[TheOpposition]

You can take my possesions...

You can take my rights...

You can take my freedom..

But touch my **** and ill fight you in the streets!rofl:slap:

[hskywalker]

whats wrong about Japanese AVs??

truth is, kids get attracted to **** no matter how you enforce the laws/have responsible parents. The harder you suppress, the more mutated the desire becomes, and that is common human pschology. For example...look at the numerous cases of clergymen molesting little kids...their religion forbades ****** engagement or passion, and see what that made many of these people.
Never liked many popular themes in japanese av, they should do it american style using japanese actress.

[kontempladorII]

I know you're smarter than that.

It's a pre-text for greater censoring and information control of the Chinese people ideas, thoughts and opinions.

The government is taking advantage of your fear of internet-**** as a means to maintain thier status quo because they don't want to lose thier privilaged positions.

Australia, UK and other western democracies are trying to implement similar ideas in name of "child ****". Of course, several not-****ographic web-sites have been blocked, no ones know if in purpose or by mistake.

[Nightsky]

You get what you're paid for at 50 cents a post.

Hmmm .... 50 cents a post? Wonder, if they accept applications from Europeans as well p-)

[d'artagnan]

This is, like many other netizens, the response from us to the govt:


FCUK YOU, KUNT! Stop ppl from watching ****? SIF~

[d'artagnan]

So ive decided to start a new business... secretly distributing **** to all the chinese. Im pretty sure i could make alot of money if i didnt get caught. I will feel pretty patriotic about it too, as we will be helping ease the debt load of this country.


yeah, just upload all those files to chinese file sharing website under the name of "Collection_of_works_of_Vladimir_I_Lenin.part1.rar" etc, it will be fine~ haha