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Lt-Col A. Tack
06-11-2009, 11:55 AM
$49.9M US Contract for 300 Winchester Magnum Ammo

10-Jun-2009 14:54 EDT

ATK subsidiary Federal Cartridge Co. in Anoka, MN received a $49.9 million firm-fixed-price, indefinite-delivery/ indefinite-quantity contract for .300 Winchester magnum ammunition. Maximum quantity is 80,100 boxes of 480 rounds each, minimum is 117 boxes. This ammunition will be used by U.S. forces engaged in combat, and by the US Navy in Match Team competition.

300 Winchester offers longer range, better accuracy, and more hitting power than standard NATO 7.62×51 mm rounds. The MK248 MOD 1 cartridge grew out of the .300 Winchester Magnum Product Improvement Program.

The .300 Win Mag PIP [PDF] (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf) aimed to improve the cartridge’s range from 1,200 yards to 1,500 yards, decrease the effects of wind on bullets in flight, and offer a reduced flash propellant that remained stable at temperatures from -25F to 165F.

The .300 Win Mag cartridge is already in wide production for competition use. As one might expect, Winchester 300 Magnum ammunition is equally popular with law enforcement specialty teams, and sport hunters like it, too. That popularity helps .300 Win Mag rounds offer considerable cost savings over the larger .338 Lapua round favored by other sniper systems like Britain’s L115A3. The other advantage is that the MK248 MOD 1 can be fired by snipers in the field armed with existing rifles.

D.E. Watters of The Gun Zone adds that .300 Win Mag is used in the Mk13 sniper rifle, another Remington 700 long receiver derivative that’s assembled from parts at NSWC Crane. The most recent version is the Mk13 MOD 5, which allows the use of the same sound suppressor as the Knight’s Armament Company SR-25/MK11 sniper rifle.

Meanwhile, there is movement within the Army to modify their Remington 700 derived M24 sniper system to .300 Win Mag, starting with individual units. Some Special Forces units have already made this conversion. The concept of wider .300 Win Mag conversions is now being explored by Picatinny Arsenal.

Work on this order will be performed in Anoka, MN, and will run until June 2014. Contract funds in the amount of $1.3 million will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This contract was competitively procured with multiple proposals solicited via the Federal Business Opportunities website. One offer was received by The Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane Division in Crane, IN (N0016409-D-JQ56). See also FBO solicitation.

Additional Readings

* US Army (May 15/09) – Snipers test rifle capabilities (http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/05/15/21165-snipers-test-rifle-capabilities/). The US Army is considering the MK13, or something similar, as a potential sniping option that would fit between the current M24, and .50 caliber sniping options. This would essentially mean that a .300 Win Mag rifle would step into the niche occupied by .338 Lapua rifles in other militaries.

Link (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/USA-Orders-499M-in-300-Winchester-Magnum-Ammo-05493/)

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6812/ord762mmmk13mod5sniperl.jpg
MK13 Mod 5

oldsoak
06-11-2009, 12:18 PM
Any reason why they didnt go .338 lapua ( considering it was designed to a US request ) ?

Lt-Col A. Tack
06-11-2009, 12:20 PM
Excellent question, cheaper maybe?

akd
06-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Excellent question, cheaper maybe?

From the NAVSEA presentation you linked:






Comparable accuracy and velocity retention to the 250 gr. .338 Lapua Mag













Significant cost savings over the .338 Lapua Mag

Lt-Col A. Tack
06-11-2009, 12:57 PM
From the NAVSEA presentation you linked:

Many thanks.

Although, cost doesn't seem to be a limiting factor for US military purchases these days.

nickless
06-11-2009, 01:35 PM
I thought the Army was going for an updated M24 (swapping barrels and bolts for .300 win mag) instead of buying all new guns?

At least, Jim Schatz mentions an M24 PIP in his 2009 status report on small arms fielding (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/thursdaysessionxi8272.pdf).

LineDoggie
06-11-2009, 05:11 PM
M24 PIP is for Snuffy Snipers(1Cav,3ID, etc.), fancy stuff for the SOCOM boys who've been to SOTIC

LongShot
06-11-2009, 05:16 PM
M24 PIP is for Snuffy Snipers(1Cav,3ID, etc.), fancy stuff for the SOCOM boys who've been to SOTIC


I thought SOTIC covered multiple platforms.

oldsoak
06-11-2009, 05:16 PM
From the NAVSEA presentation you linked:

My bad :oops:
- teach me not to speed read eh ? :lol:

oldsoak
06-11-2009, 05:20 PM
Funnily enough, the UK didnt go for the .300 win mag over the .338 despite it being on offer for the AI rifle, yet the Germans did - which considering how penny pinching our lot are is a surprise.

crazyman
06-11-2009, 07:12 PM
this all started with a request from 25th ID's snipers, who wanted something with longer range for afghan. Since everyone is ditching thr M24 for the M110, they wanted to rechamber the 24s and put them to use. went to PEO soldier, was approved, and here we are

LineDoggie
06-11-2009, 07:39 PM
I thought SOTIC covered multiple platforms.


Sure they do, but the snuffies arent gonna be getting this stuff, too specialized.

We had issues even getting M118 Special Ball, much less the Sierra Matchking M118LR round. Wound up delinking crew served belts

Now, imagine trying to secure this new round for every conventional Infantry sniper team.

Flagg
06-11-2009, 08:57 PM
I'm a big fan of both the 300 Winmag and the 338 Lapua.

Neither are cheap to run, but the Winmag is FAR less dear in my limited experience....then multiply by eleveteen thousand.

I'd be REALLY keen(as would a few friends) to learn the new recipe, here's what I found so far(can't vouch for accuracy):

http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5960&sid=c83ea16ce0534688db2f1bbc6ca3753d

220gr, 2850fps at the business end....chamber pressure seems quite high

Looks like a "poor man's Lapua", extra "oompf" from the existing weapon system without having to go to the BIG trouble and expense of developing/procuring/implementing/training something that only gets you 10% more but costs 10 times as much.

Plus 300 Winmag is full of 'Merican WIN!

338 Lapua is for poofty foreigners :)

Just my amateur thoughts.

Any thoughts from our inhouse gurus?

John1980
06-11-2009, 11:49 PM
im no expert or anything, but saying you get only "10%" seems kinda wrong to me, having taken only a quick look on the facts, it would seem that the .338 lapua mag has around 2000J of extra hitting power compared to the .300 win mag, thats the muzzle energy of 7,62x39, not insignificant fact IMO, also the me V0's are almost 100m/s higher. Not to mention there are loadings for it with bullet weights almost the double of win mag.

Cheers.

lt tahoe
06-12-2009, 01:50 PM
.300 WM also has the advantage of slightly longer barrel life. Both cartridges tear through barrels, though, compared to 7.62x51. Lapua has a pretty good stranglehold on .338 ammo so far, too. Finally, the M24 was intended from the beginning to eventually be chambered in .300 WM.

DeltaWhisky58
06-12-2009, 02:55 PM
.300 WM also has the advantage of slightly longer barrel life. Both cartridges tear through barrels, though, compared to 7.62x51. Lapua has a pretty good stranglehold on .338 ammo so far, too. Finally, the M24 was intended from the beginning to eventually be chambered in .300 WM.

The Swiss company RUAG (http://www.ruag.com/en/Defence_Security/Ammunition/Defence_Forces_and_Government_Agencies/Sniper_Ammunition_SWISS_P_Line) also makes a full range of 8.6x70mm (.338 LM) ammunition.

» 338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Target.pdf (http://www.ruag.com/de/Defence_Security/Amunition/PDF_Munition/338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Target.pdf)
» 338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Tactical.pdf (http://www.ruag.com/de/Defence_Security/Amunition/PDF_Munition/338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Tactical.pdf)
» 338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Styx_Action.pdf (http://www.ruag.com/de/Defence_Security/Amunition/PDF_Munition/338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Styx_Action.pdf)
» 338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Ball.pdf (http://www.ruag.com/de/Defence_Security/Amunition/PDF_Munition/338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_Ball.pdf)
» 338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_AP.pdf (http://www.ruag.com/de/Defence_Security/Amunition/PDF_Munition/338_Lapua_Mag_SWISS_P_AP.pdf)

Lazuris
06-12-2009, 05:15 PM
300wm is a good choise. I shoot the 220g SMK's all the time. Retumbo takes the 220 up to 2950 without excessive pressure. Another great thing that might come from this is Lapua re-releasing their 300wm brass. Also the .338lm is starting to get a serious relook. The problem with the 338LM is that the bullet is seated deep into the powder column. This means that there is a loss of effecency. The newer 338 Norma Mag reproduces the 338LM with the 300SMK with 20g less powder and the bullet is seated out of the powder column. My 338LM is due for a barrel change soon, I'm considering rechambering it in 338 Norma Mag.

D.E. Watters
06-12-2009, 06:05 PM
The thing to remember is that the MK13 rifle has been in service for years, several decades if you count its undesignated predecessor. (I have one document that gives the adoption date of the latter as 1975!) By developing a round that fits existing rifles, you can skip all of the drama that can surface when a procuring a whole new rifle. For instance, certain SOPMOD Block II accessories were significantly delayed by rejected vendors filing GAO protests. The same happened with the XM110 SASS award.

California Joe
06-12-2009, 06:19 PM
Look at you, posting in a thread where you were quoted in the article.

Mr. High Fallutin'.

:)

D.E. Watters
06-12-2009, 07:01 PM
Look at you, posting in a thread where you were quoted in the article.

Mr. High Fallutin'.

:)

Just spreading the love...

The original DID article was pretty sparse, mostly a repeat of the DefenseLink announcement. So I e-mailed the author with the background info and links, and he revised the article to the current version. There will not be a ".300 Win Mag Timeline", but I still watch other cartridge developments with interest.

California Joe
06-12-2009, 07:06 PM
Hahaha I'm just busting your balls.

It's good info. Always welcome.

Remington Rand
07-07-2009, 01:11 AM
Many thanks.

Although, cost doesn't seem to be a limiting factor for US military purchases these days.

It will be when the new administration starts to gut military spending a la the Clinton years. I hate waste as a taxpayer, but some things are worth every penny, and the US Military is one of them.

lt tahoe
07-10-2009, 01:37 PM
Oh, come on, really?

It's funny; I joined up shortly after GW1, and then they started "gutting military spending". Under George Bush I. But yeah, those Democrats, they just hate spending money on the military!

I'm a little sick of people pretending that the Democratic Party is the only one that cuts military spending; particularly in a financial crisis as we have now.