Bush Campaign Criticized for Borrowing Nazi Images

[budanski]

Bush Campaign Criticized for Borrowing Nazi Images From MoveOn.org Ad
CNSNews.com (http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200406\NAT20040630c.html)

By Shannon Augustus
CNSNews.com Correspondent
June 30, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - The campaign of Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry is criticizing President Bush for featuring Nazi images in an ad on his official reelection campaign website, but the images in question come from an ad featured on the website of liberal advocacy group.

Phil Singer, spokesman for the Kerry campaign, said using Nazi images is "simply wrong"" by any campaign, politician or party. He said it's not only insensitive but diminishes Bush's credibility as president.

"The fact that George Bush thinks it's appropriate to use images of Adolf Hitler in his campaign raises serious questions about his fitness to spend another four years in the White House," said Singer in a statement.

"Adolf Hitler slaughtered millions of innocent people and has no place in a campaign that is supposed to be about the future and hope of this nation," added Singer.

"The President's use of these images during a month that evoked the memory of World War II is remarkably insensitive to the sacrifices of the millions of people who lost their lives during Hitler's reign of terror," he said.

The Anti-Defamation League also expressed disappointment with the Bush campaign's use of the Nazi images.

"Using images of Hitler and terminology from the Nazi regime in campaign attacks is offensive and demeaning to the memory of the six million and others who died in the Holocaust," said Abraham H. Foxman, national director of the ADL, in a press release.

But this is not the first time the intermingling of Nazi images and politics were found on a website.

Earlier this year, Moveon.org organized an ad contest, and one of the ads that were submitted and posted on the website for judging portrayed President George Bush as Adolf Hitler. The winner of the contest would win air time during the president's 2004 state of the union address.

A spokesman for the Bush campaign told CNSNews.com the images on their website serve a different purpose than that of Moveon.org.

"It is a web-video that we sent to our supporters so they can see examples of the kind of hateful and vitriolic rhetoric that we have seen from John Kerry's surrogates," said Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel.

"We are simply showing our supporters what the president's opponents have had to say about him and comparing that kind of hateful language to the president's positive optimistic vision," he added.

The ad begins with the words, "The following video contains remarks made by and images from ads sponsored by Kerry supporters. John Kerry has denounced our use of these ads attacking the President. He has not denounced liberal supporters like Al Gore, George Soros, and many others who have made speeches comparing the President to Adolf Hitler."

The ad continues with the words: "The Faces of John Kerry's Democratic Party - The Coalition of the Wild-Eyed." Former Vice President Al Gore is shown yelling, "How dare they drag the good name of the United States of America through the mud of Saddam Hussein's torture prison."

The video then shows the words: "What were war crimes in 1945 - foreign policy in 2003, sponsored by Moveon.org." That is followed by a collage of video featuring various liberals.

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean is featured saying, "I want my country back," followed by filmmaker Michael Moore saying, "We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons." Then Missouri Congressman Richard Gephardt is shown saying, "This president is a miserable failure."

The words "God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them" are shown over top of a picture of Adolf Hitler while Hitler is heard speaking in German. The picture of Hitler disappears and is replaced by a picture of Bush, while the words "...and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did," are centered on the screen. That portion of the video is clearly marked "images from a MoveOn.org ad."

The ad continues with footage of Gore yelling, "He betrayed this country. He played on our fears." Then Kerry is shown, saying "Today ... George Bush will lay off your camel, tax your shovel, kick your [bleep] and tell you there is no Promised Land."

The ad concludes with the words: "This is not a time for pessimism and rage..." Then a picture of Bush is featured, with the words: "It's a time for optimism, steady leadership, and progress."

Both parties have been advised by the Anti-Defamation League to refrain from using the Nazi images.

"After a proliferation of references to Hitler and the Nazis began appearing in the wind-up to the Presidential election season, we called on the Democratic and Republican parties to refrain from adopting Nazi imagery as a political attack tool," said Foxman in a statement.

"We had hoped then that both parties had heard our concerns. For us, this is neither a Democratic nor a Republican issue, but rather a matter of respecting the feelings of those who could be offended by such images, including Jewish Holocaust survivors and their families."

The Kerry campaign, said using Nazi images is "simply wrong"" by any campaign, politician or party. He said it's not only insensitive but diminishes Bush's credibility as president
:cantbeli:

[DE_Six]

I gotta agree, use of Hitler and Nazi imagery is not acceptable, from either side.

[Mark Sman]

Standard Democratic tactic.

Do it, then blame it on the other side. Been going on for years.

[budanski]

I gotta agree, use of Hitler and Nazi imagery is not acceptable, from either side.
Still, the use of the image were in different context on both sides. The Dims used it to portray Bush as Hitler and the Bush ad was merely quoting the Lib'rals own ads...

One of the huge successes of the left has been to rewrite history to the point of Nazi's being right wing. The truth is, the NAZI party were the National SOCIALIST Workers Party which were nationalists, but they were national socialists founded on the principles of Karl Marx!!!

[radon]

Us elections :cantbeli:

[Pille1234]

One of the huge successes of the left has been to rewrite history to the point of Nazi's being right wing. The truth is, the NAZI party were the National SOCIALIST Workers Party which were nationalists, but they were national socialists founded on the principles of Karl Marx!!!
Rubbish. The NSDAP had nothing to do with Karl Marx, at least not when Hitler was taking command in the party in 1925.

[Ratamacue]

Us elections :cantbeli:
Couldn't have put it better myself.

[usa320]

DId they even see the add???

THE ADD FEATURES AN ADD THAT PORTRAYS BUSH AS HITLER, SHOWING THE RUTHLESSNESS OF THE KERRY CAMPAIGN..

KERRY's CHRONIES MADE THE HITLER ADD... BUSH JUST REPLAYS IT IN HIS ADD TO SHOW WHAT AN ASS KERRY IS.

[DE_Six]

Still, the use of the image were in different context on both sides. The Dims used it to portray Bush as Hitler and the Bush ad was merely quoting the Lib'rals own ads...


Agreed. But they could just have left the Dems embarass themselves with fallacious comparisons, rather than expose themsleves to unwanted criticism by pointing out to it. Some people will inevitably try and turn it against them.

Just my .02$

[budanski]

One of the huge successes of the left has been to rewrite history to the point of Nazi's being right wing. The truth is, the NAZI party were the National SOCIALIST Workers Party which were nationalists, but they were national socialists founded on the principles of Karl Marx!!!
Rubbish. The NSDAP had nothing to do with Karl Marx, at least not when Hitler was taking command in the party in 1925.
Hitler, like Marx, wanted to "take things away from you for the common good."


He (Hitler) openly acknowledged that the Nazi party was "socialist" and that its enemies were the "bourgeoisie" and the "plutocrats" (the rich). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler eliminated trade unions, and replaced them with his own state-run labor organizations. Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler hunted down and exterminated rival leftist factions (such as the Communists). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler waged unrelenting war against small business.

Hitler regarded capitalism as an evil scheme of the Jews and said so in speech after speech. Karl Marx believed likewise. In his essay, "On the Jewish Question," Marx theorized that eliminating Judaism would strike a crippling blow to capitalist exploitation. Hitler put Marx's theory to work in the death camps.

A Little Secret About the Nazis (http://russp.org/nazis.html)

[radon]

One of the huge successes of the left has been to rewrite history to the point of Nazi's being right wing. The truth is, the NAZI party were the National SOCIALIST Workers Party which were nationalists, but they were national socialists founded on the principles of Karl Marx!!!

You are wrong . Nazis were no communists and no real socialists. Nsdap was absolutely never communist.Nsdap may have been many things during the years , but what you say is not true. Nsdap was more socialist in the early beginnings , and there was someguy (what was he called again) wanted to get markets communalized and so on.
Nsdap got much money from big industries.

And to discuss nazi economic policy one has to keep in mind it was a war economy. And that needs for example selfsuffiency , which is impossible without goverment control.

I am no historian but really read a book about this issue. I did.

[Pille1234]

Hitler, like Marx, wanted to "take things away from you for the common good."
Oh great, what a commonality! Hitler attacked another country. The same did Bush, so according to your logic Bush's actions were founded on the principles of Hitler.

[budanski]

One of the huge successes of the left has been to rewrite history to the point of Nazi's being right wing. The truth is, the NAZI party were the National SOCIALIST Workers Party which were nationalists, but they were national socialists founded on the principles of Karl Marx!!!

You are wrong . Nazis were no communists and no real socialists. Nsdap was absolutely never communist.Nsdap may have been many things during the years , but what you say is not true. Nsdap was more socialist in the early beginnings , and there was someguy (what was he called again) wanted to get markets communalized and so on.
Nsdap got much money from big industries.

And to discuss nazi economic policy one has to keep in mind it was a war economy. And that needs for example selfsuffiency , which is impossible without goverment control.

I am no historian but really read a book about this issue. I did.
Start by reading this then...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

--Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

[budanski]

Hitler, like Marx, wanted to "take things away from you for the common good."
Oh great, what a commonality! Hitler attacked another country. The same did Bush, so according to your logic Bush's actions were founded on the principles of Hitler.
When we start exterminating 6 million+, you might have a point. ;)

[Secret Squirrel]

One of the huge successes of the left has been to rewrite history to the point of Nazi's being right wing. The truth is, the NAZI party were the National SOCIALIST Workers Party which were nationalists, but they were national socialists founded on the principles of Karl Marx!!!

You are wrong . Nazis were no communists and no real socialists. Nsdap was absolutely never communist.Nsdap may have been many things during the years , but what you say is not true. Nsdap was more socialist in the early beginnings , and there was someguy (what was he called again) wanted to get markets communalized and so on.
Nsdap got much money from big industries.

And to discuss nazi economic policy one has to keep in mind it was a war economy. And that needs for example selfsuffiency , which is impossible without goverment control.

I am no historian but really read a book about this issue. I did.
Start by reading this then...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

--Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

Hitler openly proclaimed his ‘approval’ of Poland, as evident during a Reichstag speech in May 1935; “We recognize with the understanding and the heartfelt friendship of true Nationalists, the Polish state as the home of a great, nationally conscious people.” Hrm...we all know how that turned out dont we? woot

[Pille1234]

Start by reading this then...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

--Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
Hitler did what was necessary to gain power. In public he talked about the small poor working class while meeting with big industry boys in separees to get their (financial) support.
Don't judge Hitler by his public speeches, especially not speeches from 1927 when he wasn't in power. There are enough reliable analyses about Hitler and his economy policy.

[radon]

btw there is one speech of hitler online where Hitler fanatically speakes against how socialism will hinder germany and bolshevism will destroy germany or something like that.

http://encyclopedia.ekist.de/s/so/socialism_and_nazism.html




[quote]"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

--Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

DDR means also "German democratic republic". And that is from 1927. And think Hitler believed Wall street was full of parasitic jews living of other peoples backs and creating nothing.

This http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/hitler1.htm


The teaching of Bolshevism is that there must be a world revolution, which would mean world-destruction. If such a doctrine were accepted and given equal rights with other teachings in Europe, this would mean that Europe would be delivered over to it. If other nations want to be on good terms with this peril, that does not affect Germany's position. As far as Germany itself is concerned, let there be no doubts on the following points: —

(1) We look on Bolshevism as a world peril for which there must be no toleration.

(2) We use every means in our power to keep this peril away from our people.

(3) And we are trying to make the German people immune to this peril as far as possible.

More:

We know that National Socialism vigorously combats the opinion which holds that the economic structure exists for the benefit of capital and that the people are to be looked upon as subject to the economic system. We were therefore determined from the very beginning to exterminate the false notion that the economic system could exist and operate entirely freely and entirely outside of any control or supervision on the part of the State. Today there can no longer be such a thing as an independent economic system. That is to say, the economic system can no longer be left to itself exclusively. And this is so, not only because it is unallowable from the political point of view but also because, in the purely economic sphere itself, the consequences would be disastrous.

But:

Seeing that we insist on the national importance of the function which our economic system fulfils, it naturally follows that the former disunion between employer and employee can no longer exist. But the new State will not and does not wish to assume the role of entrepreneur. It will regulate the working strength of the nation only in so far as such regulation is necessary for the common good. And it will supervise conditions and methods of working only in so far as this is in the interests of all those engaged in work. Under no circumstances will the State attempt to bureaucratize economic life. The economic effects that follow from every real and practical initiative benefit the people as a whole. At the present moment an inventor or an economic organiser is of inestimable value to the folk community. For the future the first task of National Socialist education will be to make clear to all our fellow-citizens how their reciprocal worth must be appreciated. We must point out to the one side how there can be no substitute for the German worker and we must teach the German worker how indispensable are the inventor and the genuine business leader. It is quite clear that under the aegis of such an outlook on economic life, strikes and lock-outs can no longer be tolerated. The National Socialists State repudiates the right of economic coercion. Above all contracting parties stand the economic interests of the nation, which are the interests of the people.

[budanski]

Start by reading this then...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

--Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
Hitler did what was necessary to gain power. In public he talked about the small poor working class while meeting with big industry boys in separees to get their (financial) support.
Don't judge Hitler by his public speeches, especially not speeches from 1927 when he wasn't in power. There are enough reliable analyses about Hitler and his economy policy.
The speech proved that Hitler openly admitted that he was a socialist yet you deny that the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany had any influence of Marxism.

Why Are We Socialists?
by Joseph Goebbels (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/haken32.htm)

[budanski]

btw there is one speech of hitler online where Hitler fanatically speakes against how socialism will hinder germany and bolshevism will destroy germany or something like that.

http://encyclopedia.ekist.de/s/so/socialism_and_nazism.html
They fought the Communists because they both appealed to the same people and couldn't stand each other as competition. A minority (some of those in the upper classes) supported Hitler as the anti-Communist, but that was because he promised them he didn't really mean his socialist rhetoric, not because his basic party principles weren't socialist. (And of course, he lied.)

The fight between the International Communists and the National Socialists was infighting by the 'left'.

[radon]

Imo Nazis were left-centrist not left.

[Secret Squirrel]

btw there is one speech of hitler online where Hitler fanatically speakes against how socialism will hinder germany and bolshevism will destroy germany or something like that.

http://encyclopedia.ekist.de/s/so/socialism_and_nazism.html
They fought the Communists because they both appealed to the same people and couldn't stand each other as competition. A minority (some of those in the upper classes) supported Hitler as the anti-Communist, but that was because he promised them he didn't really mean his socialist rhetoric, not because his basic party principles weren't socialist. (And of course, he lied.)

The fight between the International Communists and the National Socialists was infighting by the 'left'.

The principle tenets of Marxism are equality, democracy, and atheism/materialism. Marxism is the pursuit of the total equality of race, gender, and economic status. Marxism stated that democracy as it was practiced was not truly representative of all people, it was only representative of establishment interests, and thus Marxism was a call for “true” and total democracy where every citizen was totally equal in their political influence. Marxism of course stated that religion was the “opium of the people” and a barrier to solutions for worldly problems and Marxism, as an atheist ideology, acknowledges nothing supernatural and held that the only things that exist are material; that all of reality is simply the material reality that we see and experience. Additionally, Marxism held that “class struggle” was the driving force of social progress, and that class struggle was the appropriate means by which a just society would be created.

Fascism was based on the fundamental rejection of all of these ideas.

Hitler's 1933 Reichstag speech;

"IN NOVEMBER, 1918, Marxist organizations seized the executive power by means of a revolution. The monarchs were dethroned, the authorities of the Reich and of the States removed from office, and thereby a breach of the Constitution was committed. The success of the revolution in a material sense protected the guilty parties from the hands of the law. They sought to justify it morally by asserting that Germany or its Government bore the guilt for the outbreak of the War.

This assertion was deliberately and actually untrue. In consequence, however, these untrue accusations in the interest of our former enemies led to the severest oppression of the entire German nation and to the breach of the assurances given to us in Wilson's fourteen points, and so for Germany, that is to say the working classes of the German people, to a time of infinite misfortune....

The splitting up of the nation into groups with irreconcilable views, systematically brought about by the false doctrines of Marxism , means the destruction of the basis of a possible communal life.... It is only the creation of a real national community , rising above the interests and differences of rank and class, that can permanently remove the source of nourishment of these aberrations of the human mind. The establishment of such a solidarity of views in the German body corporate is all the more important, for it is only thereby that the possibility is provided of maintaining friendly relations with foreign Powers without regard to the tendencies or general principles by which they are dominated, for the elimination of communism in Germany is a purely domestic German affair."

[Secret Squirrel]

In Mein Kampf Hitler explains his "revelation" about the political situation in Germany:

I gradually became aware that the Social Democratic press was directed predominantly by Jews.... I swallowed my disgust and tried to read this type of Marxist press production , but my revulsion became so unlimited in so doing that I endeavored to become more closely acquainted with the men who manufactured these compendiums of knavery. From the publisher down, they were all Jews. I took all the Social Democratic pamphlets I could lay hands on and sought the names of their authors: Jews. I noted the names of the leaders: by far the greatest part were likewise members of the "chosen" people....

One thing had grown clear to me: the party with whose petty representatives I had been carrying on the most violent struggle for months was, as to leadership, almost exclusively in the hands of a foreign people; for, to my deep and joyful satisfaction I had at last come to the conclusion that the Jew was no German. Only now did I become thoroughly acquainted with the seducer of our people.... If, with the help of his Marxist creed, the Jew is victorious over the other peoples of the world , his crown will be the funeral wreath of humanity and this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men. Eternal Nature inexorably avenges the infringement of her commands .

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

[Secret Squirrel]

Start by reading this then...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

--Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
Hitler did what was necessary to gain power. In public he talked about the small poor working class while meeting with big industry boys in separees to get their (financial) support.
Don't judge Hitler by his public speeches, especially not speeches from 1927 when he wasn't in power. There are enough reliable analyses about Hitler and his economy policy.
The speech proved that Hitler openly admitted that he was a socialist yet you deny that the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany had any influence of Marxism.

Why Are We Socialists?
by Joseph Goebbels (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/haken32.htm)

Taken from the speech you linked...


It is a fighting slogan both inwardly and outwardly. It is aimed domestically at the bourgeois parties and Marxism at the same time, because both are sworn enemies of the coming workers' state. It is directed abroad at all powers that threaten our national existence and thereby the possibility of the coming socialist national state.


Socialism is possible only in a state that is united domestically and free internationally. The bourgeois and Marxism are responsible for failing to reach both goals, domestic unity and international freedom. No matter how national and social these two forces present themselves, they are the sworn enemies of a socialist national state.

We must therefore break both groups politically. The lines of German socialism are sharp, and our path is clear.

We are against the political bourgeois, and for genuine nationalism!

We are against Marxism, but for true socialism!

We are for the first German national state of a socialist nature!

We are for the National Socialist German Workers Party!

[usa320]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

and he says im crazy???

rofl

[Pille1234]

Hitlers radio speech from Feb. 1st 1933:

14 Jahre Marxismus haben Deutschland ruiniert. Ein Jahr Bolschewismus würde Deutschland vernichten...
means 14 years Marxism (you spoke about Karl Marx, remember?) have ruined Germany. One year Bolshevism would annihilate Germany.

[Secret Squirrel]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

and he says im crazy???

rofl

You might be crazy if Hitler told you that you were crazy...especially considering that he's been dead for almost 60 years. rofl

[Mark Sman]

The interesting part of the flap over these adds is this:

When it was democratic supporters using NAZI images, there was no criticism. Silence from the ADL and other organizastions.

When the Republicans quoted the adds, then there was criticism of both sides.

The hope from the Democrats is that the criticism will silence the Republican response so that people will not be able to look back at the adds and see what pure hateful BS the Democrats were spouting. I hope the Republicans ignore the ADL's request and continue to expose the hateful BS that the Democrats spout.

If the situation was reversed, the ADL would have launched a national campaign the day after a conservative group released such BS ads. Democrats do it, silence.

Want to follow the Democratic party in the US. Easy, look for the slime trail. It leads right to moveon.borg and fellow travellers.

[Kitsune]

It is a bit, pointless...this political "left" and "right" thing comes from a sitting order of some 19th century parliaments. It doesn't accurately describe what the parties stand for. But perhaps I can explain this "extreme right wing" positioning of National Socialism:


What is "communism"? This ideology was founded under the impressions of the monstrous injustice towards and mistreatment of workers in the industrializing areas of Europe (the US wasn't different). Workers were kept in economic slavery (they often weren't given money but "coupons" with which they could only buy wares in stores belonging to their employer, so they could never save money and move away), in worst living conditions (frequent mass dyings of cholera), and abhorring working conditions (sometimes 17 hours per day working time, children had to work as well so that the families hadn't to starve). Karl Marx created a more or less sound ideology, that proposed that this mistreatment would end someday (history would inevitably move towards this point), and a better world would exist, were everyone is treated well and goods are distributed fairly to all people (this state of the world he called "communism"). "Communist" movements tried to make this true, by setting up a state economy and a ruling caste of "wise" people who led the people towards this state of communism. These caste very soon started to imprison or kill those who opposed them and began to exploit the people ruled by them. Originally this ideology is international i.e it does not make any difference wether one is Russian, Chinese or American, but Stalin proposed "Communism in one country", giving a national streak to it.

What is national-socialism? A kind of fascism. And what is fascism? Good question...Well, one of the main difference between communism and fascism is, that commusnism had an theoretical foundation first and then got watered down when governments were formed make it true (this more logical order and communism inherent idealism may explain the appea it had to many "intellectuals"). Fascism has no true theoretical foundation in the first place. For example in Germany, the racial theories were written down as "scientifical foundation" of Nazism after Hitler had come to power, before that time all of it had been very vague. Even many Nazis didn't truly believe it, many were in fact just opportunists. And that, opportunism, is perhaps the most defining element of fascism.
The hallmark of fascism is, that it gives many people, many things. "Fairness" and a bettering of working conditions are promised to the poor. Power and greatness of ones country to the nationalistic inclined. The Upholding of venerable traditions to the old. The dawn of a new age to the young. A greater budget to the military. Security to the fearful. And of course: opportunities to make money and protection from communists to the buisiness tycoons. The last one is important: as communism was created many nationalists and rich poeple feared it greatly. So fascism declared itself something as a contrary ideology...and thats why they styled themselves as "extreme right wing", as far away from their arch-enemies as possible. In Germany even some jews actually supported Hitler (despite his openly statet antisemitism) and helped him to become elected, they simply saw him as less dangerous as the communists. Capitalism thrived in the Germany of the 30ties: Communits and Unionists were put into concentration camps, and the huge conglomerats (like IG Farben) made huge profits). The Nazis were on very friendly terms with foreign companies as well, for example IBM (the Holocaust was administrated by an daughter company of theirs) and Ford Inc. (Henry Ford was on personal terms with the top Nazis and decorated with the Adler Orden, one of the highest civilian decorations of the third Reich)...and with a certain Prescott Bush, too. Ehem.

But in the practical application, Fascism and Communism became often quite similiar. Totalitarian one party states with an militaristic bend. Both tend to like parades or a ruled by an near omnicient ruler who has to be revered. Prisons are filled with opponents, who are given either a very short trial or no trial at all. Foreign states my be attacked "to liberate them". But always Communists will claim to be the staunches enemies of the Fascists, who represent the darkes Evil. And Fascists will explain that the Communists are the scum of the earth, a cancer to which they are the best cure.

[cut]

Start by reading this then...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

--Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
Hitler did what was necessary to gain power. In public he talked about the small poor working class while meeting with big industry boys in separees to get their (financial) support.
Don't judge Hitler by his public speeches, especially not speeches from 1927 when he wasn't in power. There are enough reliable analyses about Hitler and his economy policy.
The speech proved that Hitler openly admitted that he was a socialist yet you deny that the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany had any influence of Marxism.

Why Are We Socialists?
by Joseph Goebbels (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/haken32.htm)

did you neglect to read:

Why are We Nationalists?
by Joseph Goebbels (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/haken32.htm)

you do realise nationalism is the anti-foreigner/anit-semitic part and socialism is the appealing to the workers?

[mattnwnc03]

Us elections :cantbeli:
Couldn't have put it better myself.yeah its all fubar

[Navy]

Wow...nice discussion you guys have here. :lol:

Now to the point. Hitler was a socialist, i cant understand how people can argue against that fact. Hitler was against the middle-class and the military noble which had ruled Germany during 1800s.

The only people he respected was the low rank arien soldiers on the front.

Plz read som history before you all feel the need to adress your point.

[Secret Squirrel]

Wow...nice discussion you guys have here. :lol:

Now to the point. Hitler was a socialist, i cant understand how people can argue against that fact. Hitler was against the middle-class and the military noble which had ruled Germany during 1800s.

The only people he respected was the low rank arien soldiers on the front.

Plz read som history before you all feel the need to adress your point.

the issue was how Hitler defined socialism and whether or not he was influenced by Marxism and practiced marxism. The Nazi party labled themselves National Socialists and defined exacty what that meant, which does not fix with marxism.

[Sayeret]

I like Bush over Kerry but this recent add was really disrpestful and wrong. No one should be comparing Bush or Kerry to Nazis because that is just obnoxious and disrespectful.

[StarvingStudent47]

DId they even see the add???

THE ADD FEATURES AN ADD THAT PORTRAYS BUSH AS HITLER, SHOWING THE RUTHLESSNESS OF THE KERRY CAMPAIGN..

KERRY's CHRONIES MADE THE HITLER ADD... BUSH JUST REPLAYS IT IN HIS ADD TO SHOW WHAT AN ASS KERRY IS.

Kerry had nothing to do with the Hitler ad. Moveon.org is not affiliated with the national Democratic Party.

I saw a bumpersticker recently that said "a vote for Kerry is a vote for al-Qaeda." Immature? Yes. Inaccurate? Yes. But should I blame that bumpersticker on Bush himself? NO! Because he didn't make it, he didn't authorize it, he didn't support it. There's a HUGE difference between "someone who supports Kerry saying X" and "Kerry's campaign saying X." People seem to be missing this point.

[Mark Sman]

There are indications that moveon.borg and Kerry are coordinatiing actions. This may even end up as a fairly big investigation.

Of course, at the moment, nothing is proved. But moveon is basically a front for the Democrats.