Assimilation

[Havoc345]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.




" In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people. "


- Teddy Roosevelt

[Formby]

I would agree with you on this.we hear it all the time "Oh I am Irish american my great granfather was irish", "I am Irish American".I would would alway respond "you are an citizen of the United States of America now", "be thankful for that".

[pg_ord]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.




" In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people. "


- Teddy Roosevelt

It is possible for a person to maintain multiple identities .. but a nationalist would always just state his nationality and move on.

[Winger]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.


I get what you mean completely. However, you can add almost every country to that list. It does take time to assimilate and the closer their ties to their home country the longer it takes them.

If you've ever been to Miami you would understand that the population there is the worst assimilated I have ever seen. They don't even try. Point Blank. You usually know who they are by seeing their home country flag hanging down from their rear view mirror.

My grandparents are from Spain, they fled the civil war, and they adapted very quickly here. But, that takes education and strong will.

[CPL Trevoga]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.


It's not that they "resisting", it's just when you grow up in a different culture, you can't just become somebody else. If you would move to Pakistan, would you become a Pushtun? Prabobly not, you'll stay be arrogant cheeseburger-eating, Budweiser-drinking, Bush-votin' Yankee that everybody hates. :)

[Havoc345]

It's not that they "resisting", it's just when you grow up in a different culture, you can't just become somebody else. If you would move to Pakistan, would you become a Pushtun? Prabobly not, you'll stay be arrogant cheeseburger-eating, Budweiser-drinking, Bush-votin' Yankee that everybody hates. :)

Spend some time in America and you'll see how some groups are resisting.:bash:

[IraGlacialis]

My view on assimilation is that not only does a immigrant not lose his heritage when assimilating into American society, but that immigrant also transfers positive elements from his heritage into America. In doing that, American stays ever-shifting and doesn't stagnate; another thread in a colorful, yet harmonious, tapestry if you will.

And yeah, the (insert here) pride thing gets real old. It is a good thing to be interested in your heritage, but don't make it your primary identity, especially if you were disconnected from that heritage by more than several generations.
My mom is Thai, and I love Thai culture and studying/immersing myself in it. But while I acknowledge the importance of my heritage, I consider myself an American first and foremost, and never call myself a Thai American.
Though I do mark "Asian American" on forms for stat purposes, and my friends and I utilize my Asian-ness for humor purposes.

[IraGlacialis]

If you would move to Pakistan, would you become a Pushtun? Prabobly not, you'll stay be arrogant cheeseburger-eating, Budweiser-drinking, Bush-votin' Yankee that everybody hates. :)
To be fair, Middle Easterners/Central/South Asians have been some of the most well-adjusted immigrants I have ever seen.
This is to the point that they make their kids not only learn English but lose any trace of an accent as quickly as possible. The parents would of course have a thick accent, but you wouldn't be able tell that the kid only came into the country a couple years ago.

Then again, I live in Missouri. When I go to the real big cites and those on the coast (Chicago, Seattle, LA, San Fransisco), there is a much noticeable stance on ethnic identity going on.

[Jiggy]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.

doesn't really bother me, it is what it is i guess.

i'm not an immigrant, but i usually just call myself American if someone asks.

i'm mostly Italian, but i also have Brazilian, Irish, Spanish, and Portuguese in my blood.

so yeah i kinda stand out lol.

[GazB]

If everyone moving to the US has to become "American" and conform then this melting pot you speak of does not exist. A melting pot is where new ingredients are added to change the overall characteristics of the contents. It seems you want the ingredients to change to become what is already in the pot. Makes me wonder why you want to add to the mix if you don't want the mix to change.

[ronnieraygun]

Spend some time in America and you'll see how some groups are resisting.:bash:

I don't think so. American groups do quite well. You would have to visit other countries if you wish to see truly hard resistance to any idea of "assimilation." Not to pick, but at 18 you probably have not seen enough yet to pin much on America. The second generation usually does assimilate. Also, there is a stereotype that all immigrant groups used to assimilate immediately and become Americans. That was never true. All groups have always held on to some manifestations of their "original" identity for at least the first generation. It takes time. The US does better at it than most countries for some reason. You might also wish to consider how the balance between assimilation and multicultural identity plays out in similar, "newer" or continually evolving societies such as Brazil, Canada or Australia.

[Ordie]

Assimilation and acculturation occurs naturally for both immigrant and locals. Most specifically after the second generation or immigrant children are raised within the local society.

Immigrants hold dearly the values and norms of the old country. It gives them a sence of comfort and normalcy in an otherwise strange environment. Very much on how Americans living abroad would celebrate Thanksgiving, Independence Day and hook up with other ex-pats for support and comfort.

Like it or not, assimilation and acculturation, happens for immigrants and locals alike. If not, how could one explain why pizza and frankfurters are America's most popular foods.

[Ordie]

If everyone moving to the US has to become "American" and conform then this melting pot you speak of does not exist. A melting pot is where new ingredients are added to change the overall characteristics of the contents. It seems you want the ingredients to change to become what is already in the pot. Makes me wonder why you want to add to the mix if you don't want the mix to change.

It happens naturally over time and generations.

[LineDoggie]

I served in Baghdad with a Chinese born kid who didnt speak a word of Chinese. the other Chinese guys in HHC thought he was fcuking with them. Raised in Red Hook Brooklyn.


Go Figure

[LineDoggie]

It's not that they "resisting", it's just when you grow up in a different culture, you can't just become somebody else. If you would move to Pakistan, would you become a Pushtun? Prabobly not, you'll stay be arrogant cheeseburger-eating, Budweiser-drinking, Bush-votin' Yankee that everybody hates...... :) But everyone runs to when they need help......

[Ordie]

I served in Baghdad with a Chinese born kid who didnt speak a word of Chinese. the other Chinese guys in HHC thought he was fcuking with them. Raised in Red Hook Brooklyn.


Go Figure

When I think of Brooklyn, I always think of this film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P6MqHccBSI

[SkyUS]

Hmm there are different school of thought on the notion of nationality. I won't get into that now. But here's my story.

When I came to the US I was 13 years old. I spoke some pretty good communicative English, though I was shy in using the language comfortably. I live in NYC, when I came I lived in Greenpoint, a Polish neighborhood. It's litterly a little Polska in NYC. I digress, I went to a Polish Catholica school, where there were other Polish immigrants fresh off the boat( only two of them). And the rest of 95% of students were 2nd generation of Polish American kids. I spoke Polish during the breaks between classes with my fellow immigrant friends. I didn't really hang out with the Americans. It was a cultural thing and Language barrier. I moved out from Greenpoint into less Polish Williamsburgh.

When I entered High School in lower Manhattan, there was perhaps about 30 Polish students. Now here comes the kicker. I never associated with them. In fact none of them even knew I was Polish. I didn't have the need to revert to my Polish identity and association with them. I was comfortable as it was just one of the kids. Granted NYC is filled with immigrants. There was a ton of different kids from Latin America, displaying their pride in their nationality. I didn't have that need.

My cultural assimilation kicked in when I took AP US History. I got to throughly get to know the new country I was living in. Over the year while I was in that class, I stopped saying the Americans did this or that, and started saying We did that or this. I got assimilated through that class. I didn't give up on my nationality. I just didn't really see the purpose to display it to everybody.

Today I consider myself Polish American. Though in America I identify myself as an American and In Poland as a Pole.

Hell now I usually communicate In English with my brother, much to the dismay of my parents.

Okay now here's my friends story.

She came to US when she was 8 years old. She attended public schools instead of private Polish ones. She attended instead Polish Saturday school to learn the Polish Language. There she met immigrant fresh of the boat and 2nd generation Polish Americans as well. She hang out with them all of this time absorbing the Polish expatriate prideful "culture".

I asked her one day about what she considers her nationality to be. She proudly said that she's Polish. Even tough that she has American citizenship she is 200% Polish. Now the question is how come, she considers to be Polish while I consider myself to be American.( or Polish American)

I think that this can be attributed to the fact that she grew up with the other expatriate kids absorbing all of the nationalistic crap "culture".

I think that it very much depend on where the person grows up. While I don't have the need to assert my Polish nationality through the "Proud to be Polish" tats, t-shirts or bumper stickers, she does. It makes her reaffirm her Polishness, so to speak.

I hope I didn't bore you too much guys.

[SkyUS]

When I think of Brooklyn, I always think of this film

Hahaha. Not so much my friend. Cone Island has large population of Guidos( the freaky douche bag people). they mostly live in Staten Island and Long Island.

[Ordie]

Hahaha. Not so much my friend. Cone Island has large population of Guidos( the freaky douche bag people). they mostly live in Staten Island and Long Island.

Here's another New York moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBG140hMCu8

[Johnny_H02]

I think as long as when it comes down to the wire if people stick up for their newly adopted land which they sought out to improve their quality of life then we are understood. I don't expect everyone who immigrates to Canada to drink Keith's & watch hockey. If however it comes down to supporting Canada when required or the place you previously called home I think its only proper form to support your newly adopted land.

How one lives their daily life, what religious rituals they prescribe to or how they dress is of little or no consequence to me as long as while they are doing it they do so within the confines of the laws of their newly chosen home.

Thats basically it for me and any assimilation "worries".

[pg_ord]

How one lives their daily life, what religious rituals they prescribe to or how they dress is of little or no consequence to me as long as while they are doing it they do so within the confines of the laws of their newly chosen home.

Thats basically it for me and any assimilation "worries".

x2
I couldn't have said it better.

[BloodyTalon]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American.

The immigrant groups you mention aren't "resisting" assimilation; they are relatively newer generations of immigrants that still retain the cultural values they've had since birth while slowly absorbing and co-opting American cultural values. As further generations of immigrants are born in the US, you see even greater levels of assimilation.

Even then, it's naive to assume that a group within the US is going to completely shed all of their old values and become 100% "American." You likely know this already, but our culture is an amalgamation of values and practices from a huge multitude of other cultures that is then further influence by historical, regional, and socio-economic factors. This simultaneously splits the US into very distinct regional subcultures while forming the template followed by the cultural and geo-political construct that is "The West." Because of this amalgamation, it makes sense that different ethnic groups are still going to retain some vestiges of their initial culture and even have them become part of the general American culture.

[Xaito]

Spend some time in America and you'll see how some groups are resisting.:bash:

Unless I'm mistaken I think he lives in the US...
also you sound like a borg - "Resistance is futile... you will be assimilated" rofl

[jklv]

I think it's just the bad aspects of their culture what screws it up. For instance, Mexicans how move to the US and join gangs (only a few, not all). Somalis that move to Sweden and rape/steal (only a few, not all). And the list goes on.

In my particular case, in the city of Tijuana (Mexico) our culture was much different to that of the central and southern Mexico, particularly for the order and very low crime rates, as well as driving cordiality, even the US dollar was used instead of the Mexican peso. But somewhere in time, loads of Mexicans from Sinaloa, Michoacan and Mexico city moved in, and brought some of the worst aspects of their culture instead of the good aspects.

For example, in Sinaloa most people (yes, most people, not only a few) support organized crime particularly drug trafficking, something similar but in less quantities happens in Michoacan.

This happened as many of these guys were poor, which in Mexico means no other education than that in the farms and ranchs, and the most profitable activities are those related to drug trafficking.

Guess what happened to Tijuana now?

[Evolv5]

I thought all Americans were either Irish or Canadian since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

That's at least what they say over here across the pond. p-)

[BearInBunnySuit]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.

I use to think like you when I was your age and even wrote an essay in college about how "immigrants" should try harder to assimilate because "it's good for them."

Since then, I've seen a bit more of the world and realized how shallow those views are.

A majority of immigrants come over as adults when their capacity to absorb new information, behavior and language is significantly inhibited. Some of them try to "assimilate" as much as possible but it's true that some of them just try to blend into their own enclaves and leave the "Americanization" part to the younger generation.

But can you really blame them? Let's say a typical white American family from the cornfields of Ohio decides to start over again in some foreign country--a non-English speaking place with completely different cultural and social values.
How quickly do you think the 40-something parents would pick up the native language? How quickly do you think the they will understand and adopt foreign values and behavior? It will probably take a great deal of time and effort but by then, many of them would have given up trying.
Instead, they will turn to people like themselves who they can relate to, communicate with and support because that is human nature.

So before we can talk about immigrants assimilating, I think we need to define what sort of assimilation we are talking about. Do you mean someone who is completely comfortable in their new country as well as the old? Do you mean someone who can hold a basic conversation in the language of their new country or someone who if you spoke to on the phone would think was a cowboy from Texas? Do you want the new immigrants to completely forgo what ever values and traditions they have learned growing up in their homeland and adopt "baseball, apple pie and Chevrolet" as their new slogan?

Then there is also the manner in which many of these immigrants are treated by their new country. While America may be the greatest melting pot in the world, it is also true that depending on where one goes, subtle discrimination exists if one doesn't sound right or look right and experiences like that discourage someone from making an effort to "fit in" because it requires changes that are too difficult to overcome.

Besides, if you study the history of immigration in the U.S., you will learn that new arrivals, particularly Asians, were not allowed to assimilate and become Americans by law. They were prevented from certain jobs, they were not allowed to marry certain races and they were not allowed to buy property. Yet something about America continued to attract them despite all the hostility, hardships and at times, even death, and many of them still flock here and have learned to thrive and contribute to this country, bringing with them new ideas, values and traditions that make this country a microcosm of the greater world out there.

What other country in the world can you find both a Persian grocery store and an Indian market down the street from Costco or stuff yourself at a Chinese buffet and finish off with a heavenly cake from the Cheesecake Factory? Where else can you go shopping for Chanel and Louis Vuitton bags and drive 10 minutes down the street and get overpriced Korean bar-b-que served by a Hugh Jackman lookalike? My guess is it's only possible in the U.S. because it opened its doors to the world and they came.

[SoftLion]

Hahaha. Not so much my friend. Cone Island has large population of Guidos( the freaky douche bag people). they mostly live in Staten Island and Long Island.

It's OK because it's a pejorative for Italians. Just watch out for Jewish or African American varieties, right?

[Laworkerbee]

I think it's just the bad aspects of their culture what screws it up. For instance, Mexicans how move to the US and join gangs (only a few, not all). Somalis that move to Sweden and rape/steal (only a few, not all). And the list goes on.

In my particular case, in the city of Tijuana (Mexico) our culture was much different to that of the central and southern Mexico, particularly for the order and very low crime rates, as well as driving cordiality, even the US dollar was used instead of the Mexican peso. But somewhere in time, loads of Mexicans from Sinaloa, Michoacan and Mexico city moved in, and brought some of the worst aspects of their culture instead of the good aspects.

For example, in Sinaloa most people (yes, most people, not only a few) support organized crime particularly drug trafficking, something similar but in less quantities happens in Michoacan.

This happened as many of these guys were poor, which in Mexico means no other education than that in the farms and ranchs, and the most profitable activities are those related to drug trafficking.

Guess what happened to Tijuana now?

You know what's funny, every time I see a Mexican just carelessly litter and throw his trash on the ground here in Los Angeles....I just know that bastard is from Michoacan :bash:

[brainplay]

My grandparents are from Spain, they fled the civil war, and they adapted very quickly here. But, that takes education and strong will.
If you would move to Pakistan, would you become a Pushtun? Prabobly not, you'll stay be arrogant cheeseburger-eating, Budweiser-drinking, Bush-votin' Yankee that everybody hates. :)

First one sums it up. Second one shows the current state of things. Do the math.

[CPL Trevoga]

To be fair, Middle Easterners/Central/South Asians have been some of the most well-adjusted immigrants I have ever seen.
This is to the point that they make their kids not only learn English but lose any trace of an accent as quickly as possible. The parents would of course have a thick accent, but you wouldn't be able tell that the kid only came into the country a couple years ago.

Then again, I live in Missouri. When I go to the real big cites and those on the coast (Chicago, Seattle, LA, San Fransisco), there is a much noticeable stance on ethnic identity going on.

My points is if an person, who was born and grews up in the States moves to another country, would they become just like people in that country? Don't you think that they would retain their native culture? Look at American ghettos in London and other European cities. Are these people resisting or are the being who they are?

To sum up my thesis, you can't assimilate into a different culture fully, if you were raised in a different culture. You can become integrated, but not fully change your identity.



Spend some time in America and you'll see how some groups are resisting.

I live in NYC 20 years, I grew up here, but I can't call myself American, because I wasn't born here. Plain and simple. If you talking about annoying people who fly flags of ****holes they came from, that's a different story. Overall immigrants in NY that's what makes this places so expensive, they come here, depress wages, put pressure on housing prices, rents.

[LordKitchener]

My view on assimilation is that not only does a immigrant not lose his heritage when assimilating into American society, but that immigrant also transfers positive elements from his heritage into America. In doing that, American stays ever-shifting and doesn't stagnate; another thread in a colorful, yet harmonious, tapestry if you will.

That presumes that every immigrant culture has a benefit to contribute to the host country which is hardly true.


There is a severe problem of immigrant-assimilation here in Britain too. I saw another worrying case of it this week when England played India in the cricket world cup in London. The cricket ground was overwhelmingly Indian (mainly Indians who would have been born in England) and they proceed to boo the English national cricket team before the match in their own country!!! I was astonished by this lack of respect which you would not even get from the worst-behaved football supporters and it just proves there is no will to assimilate to the host country which has provided them with comfortable lives which their 'own' countries failed to provide.

Another case happened the other week - I was in a taxi with a Bangladeshi driver (he was at least 40 years old) and I was just talking with him about Asian politics. I then get around to asking him which country he was born in - to my astonishment he says England. The guy is speaking such poor pigeon English with the heaviest Bangldeshi accent that I was perplexed as to how he has spent at least 40 years in the country and still can't speak the language. It's because he has cocooned himself in his little Bangladeshi community for most of his life.

[seraosha]

I loathe the invaders that come to our shores and don't bother to assimilate. All you Europeans, Asians, Africans, and whatevers...when was the last time you were in a sweat lodge? Ate pemmican?
Danced a Ghost Dance, or participated in a Medicine Ritual?
Hell, speak Arapaho or Cherokee?

That's what I thought..."immigrants" and your perception of them all depends on when you got here...as everyone after you is the immigrant.

How about all you Europeans swim back to Europe and take an Asian and African with you under each arm?

[LordKitchener]

^^^ Don't be such a hypocrite. You're living in a society created by a foreign culture in which the Native Americans had virtually no input.

[seraosha]

^^^ Don't be such a hypocrite. You're living in a society created by a foreign culture in which the Native Americans had virtually no input.

What hypocrisy? All you white oppressors can leave yesterday, as far as I'm concerned. And take those you brought with you as labor along for the ride.

[jklv]

You know what's funny, every time I see a Mexican just carelessly litter and throw his trash on the ground here in Los Angeles....I just know that bastard is from Michoacan :bash:
I know! It's ****ed up. All those aspects such as:

- Littering
- Driving like animals
- Rudeness
- Drug abuse
- Extreme ignorance
- Arrogance
- Disorder
- Bribes
- Ideological support towards illegal activities (They no longer think doing such things is wrong, for example, they think stopping at a red light or paying taxes is for dumb people, being a drug lord is their ultimate goal)

And I could go on with that ****.


Oh but for the record, not all people from Michoacan/Sinaloa are like that. Before anyone gets offended.

[IraGlacialis]

My points is if an person, who was born and grews up in the States moves to another country, would they become just like people in that country? Don't you think that they would retain their native culture? Look at American ghettos in London and other European cities. Are these people resisting or are the being who they are?

To sum up my thesis, you can't assimilate into a different culture fully, if you were raised in a different culture. You can become integrated, but not fully change your identity.
I have a very lax interpretation of immigrant assimilation, almost synonymous with your integration.
If you come in, learn to speak the main language so you are able to communicate relatively well with the locals (even if there is some roughness due to the native accent), go to become a productive member of American society, have your kids integrate themselves into American culture, abide by American laws, and don't act like a complete yahoo (as LAWB and jklv pointed out in their rants about guys from Michoacan), then you are considered assimilated in my eyes.
You can worship how you've done, speak the motherland's tongue in the home (though frankly not highly recommend), have festivals from the motherland (recommended to share with the rest of Americans), etc etc all you want; in essence, I don't care if they retain most of their culture as long as the requirements for assimilation/integration are met.

From what I have seen, the harder it is to get into the area, the more likely an immigrant will assimilate. That is why Asians and Europeans are seen as assimilating more than Mexicans. It is also why I suspect that large coastal cities see less integration than smaller Midwestern ones.

[The Balkan]

What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.


But Greek is his ETHNICITY, and that's most likely always gonna be more important or as important as the country he lives in. People say they're Jews and Blacks and Hispanics in America don't they? There is no Amerian ethnicity or race, being an American is about something else so I see no conflict between the two. Ethnic Greek and proud American. But yea you can easily say Greek-American too, it's saying the same thing basicly just like African American, Italian-American etc.

[SkyUS]

What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.


But Greek is his ETHNICITY, and that's most likely always gonna be more important or as important as the country he lives in. People say they're Jews and Blacks and Hispanics in America don't they? There is no Amerian ethnicity or race, being an American is about something else so I see no conflict between the two. Ethnic Greek and proud American. But yea you can easily say Greek-American too, it's saying the same thing basicly just like African American, Italian-American etc.


Look up the concept of imagined community and social constructivism. There are different ways explaining the notion of nationality and ethnicity.

This one simply states that people associate themselves to socially constructed community. Is the said Greek really a true Greek or is it simply a way of associating oneself to a community of same origin.

Look I am a Polish. I can distinguish myself my self by saying that I am a Brooklynite when trying to set my self apart from other people living in NYC. Then I can say that I am a New Yorker, when trying to differ myself from other people from different cities than NYC. Then I can say I am Polish. then an American and lastly I can say I am white and human. You get my drift

It's only a way for people to distinguish between themselves here in America.

Edit

Look up also


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordialism

There is also an instrumentalist account which essentially says that people will go with the identity that benefits them more, be it economically, socially or politically wise.

[Bulletproof]

I don't really like these people who constantly flash their nationality to everybody. In the last days of the war in Sri Lanka, the Tamil community organised a march to Parliament Hill and asked the gov to do something about the situation and it's the same thing for every community (Iranian, Italian, Greek, Chinese, etc.) every time there's problem in their country of origin. Another example, a Greek, for the last Euro Cup, painted is garage door like the Greek flag and was asked to remove it (that douche is still arguing in court...). "I'm (insert a nationality) and then I'm Canadian"... If you don't feel any attachement for the country who accepted you and you're so goddamn proud why don't you go back there? I don't know, I find it disrespectful.

[11 Bravo]

It's not that they "resisting", it's just when you grow up in a different culture, you can't just become somebody else. If you would move to Pakistan, would you become a Pushtun? Prabobly not, you'll stay be arrogant cheeseburger-eating, Budweiser-drinking, Bush-votin' Yankee that everybody hates. :)

I vote you a complete arse with this.. jeez what the twhat where you drinkin'/thinkin' ?.

[SkyUS]

I vote you a complete arse with this.. jeez what the twhat where you drinkin'/thinkin' ?.

I see you didn't see that smiley. Seeing your other posts over the time I am here I say your title is more than well deserved.

[Bulletproof]

I vote you a complete arse with this.. jeez what the twhat where you drinkin'/thinkin' ?.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v394/waffen_ss84/lol.jpg

I lol'd

[The Balkan]

Look up the concept of imagined community and social constructivism. There are different ways explaining the notion of nationality and ethnicity.

This one simply states that people associate themselves to socially constructed community. Is the said Greek really a true Greek or is it simply a way of associating oneself to a community of same origin.

Look I am a Polish. I can distinguish myself my self by saying that I am a Brooklynite when trying to set my self apart from other people living in NYC. Then I can say that I am a New Yorker, when trying to differ myself from other people from different cities than NYC. Then I can say I am Polish. then an American and lastly I can say I am white and human. You get my drift

It's only a way for people to distinguish between themselves here in America.

Edit

Look up also


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordialism

There is also an instrumentalist account which essentially says that people will go with the identity that benefits them more, be it economically, socially or politically wise.

Nobody needs philosophical jibba jabba for this, and nations won't dissapear anytime soon no matter who think's they're fake or not. It's just reality. Tribes, races, ethnic groups etc... they exist. Even if it's in people's heads, they exist and will keep existing enough to affect EVERYTHING as you can see daily. According to those ideas we might as well not evn have identites or cultures of nations, lets all just be Earthlings and clones of eachother lol.

What I said is 100% true, and always will be for some people, especialy people like Greeks. And as a matter of fact I RESPECT THAT, it's in fact a noble attribute. Same reason I respect the Basques and others like them. I guess some don't understand that or agree but oh well. BUT I CAN completly see how it is ANNOYING to an American or whoever else in whatever country. "Natives" are always annoyed by others for some reason haha.

America is ....America, but a country like Greece, as most in the Balkans, are ethnicly based so......it just can't be compared.

You guys are simply mixing citizenships, nationaoities and ethnicities....races...etc..

Lets put it the simplest way possible. He doesn't want to abandon and forget who he is, just becus he resides outside of his original land.

And for real, the comparison between something like Polish and something like Greek just..can't work. And lets not forget what part of the world Greeks are from....as you probly know...identity is everything there.

[sinophile]

Does is bother anyone else that certain segments of each race RESIST assimilation into the American metling pot. As an example here are some ethnic groups that in my personal experience resist assimilation, Koreans, Poles and Puerto Ricans. I guess I can see the point of losing one's heritage but I don't believe you have to forget your heritage to be an American. What I'm mainly referring to are people who say "Oh I'm Greek" no you're a Greek-American or simply American. Discuss your thoughts on this topic, also consider this quote.

You're raising an issue of psychology and not sociology - you're asking about how people form and change their identity. Very complicated stuff from a psychodyanmic perspective. Here's a primer -

You "feel" like an American when you see your attitude and thoughts mirrored in society. That's not too difficult because like most immigrants you arrived here for a better life, and US society places a high value your courageous migration, and your humble, hard-working, can-do attitude. That match of your attitude and the attitude of your new boss, co-workers (and society) opens a very low friction pathway to assimilation. You're an American now, you feel like one because you made the pilgrimage we've all made, and you've been accepted by people whose values are similar to your own. You're ready to pay taxes, vote, fight for your country and bitch about US politics. When you return from a visit to your old home, a very cool US customs official will say "welcome home" looking at your blue passport (As they often do) and all is well in the universe.

But you didn't migrate to the US. You went to Europe as one of tens of thousand of North African immigrants initially for temporary labor, but you somehow stayed. Your hard-working attitude is viewed with contempt by Europeans who want your hard work, but who don't want you upsetting century old traditions, language, cultural norms, or just looking different. You may live in France, have the very same rights as any Frenchman -- but will you ever truly be French?

The one advantage the US has in the coming years is our tradition of immigration and assimilation. Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." Our secret weapon is our Iranian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Russian-Americans, Indian-Americans and so-on feeling accepted and valued by our society, and feeling like Americans. Our future success is tied to their success.

I could write an entire thread on how US world power rests with an open immigration model.

[Uboj]

The way I look at it is how my parents viewed it when they came to Australia, you don't forget where you come from as those traditions add to diversity and character of your new home, but you have to respect and assimilate to the existing traditions of your new home. If you can't or for some reason refuse to then its simple....go back to where you ****ing came from. p-)

[Winger]

What hypocrisy? All you white oppressors can leave yesterday, as far as I'm concerned. And take those you brought with you as labor along for the ride.

LOL. You can hand over your internetz and **** before we go. You didn't need that before did you? ;)

Seriously though, aside from oppressing their fellow tribes, what's the name of those people that the Native Americans oppressed when they crossed over the Bearing Straits.

[Mr.K]

I don't really like these people who constantly flash their nationality to everybody. In the last days of the war in Sri Lanka, the Tamil community organised a march to Parliament Hill and asked the gov to do something about the situation and it's the same thing for every community (Iranian, Italian, Greek, Chinese, etc.) every time there's problem in their country of origin.
Agree!


Another example, a Greek, for the last Euro Cup, painted is garage door like the Greek flag and was asked to remove it (that douche is still arguing in court...).
Disagree, it's private propriety comradep-), and there was nothing offensive in his painting, although i'm not for it. I'm really against the flag-waving douchebags.



"I'm (insert a nationality) and then I'm Canadian"... If you don't feel any attachment for the country who accepted you and you're so goddamn proud why don't you go back there? I don't know, I find it disrespectful.
I understand what you mean, but being a 1st gen immigrant and having lived a certain part of my life there i find it difficult to say that i'm 100% Canadian, since it's false.
But the I'm nationality-Canadian, is stupid. I usually say, i was born in Russia, but have been raised here. which is the truth.
Someone who is an adult and who has immigrated, and has the balls to say I'm (nationality of new country) is a hypocrite.
Plus let's be frank here, you will never perceive a guy with a foreign name and a heavy accent as a "canadian".

[Bulletproof]

Disagree, it's private propriety comradep-), and there was nothing offensive in his painting, although i'm not for it. I'm really against the flag-waving douchebags.

It's falling under the "you-can't-paint-your-house-in-pink" kind of law.


I understand what you mean, but being a 1st gen immigrant and having lived a certain part of my life there i find it difficult to say that i'm 100% Canadian, since it's false.But the I'm nationality-Canadian, is stupid. I usually say, i was born in Russia, but have been raised here. which is the truth. Someone who is an adult and who has immigrated, and has the balls to say I'm (nationality of new country) is a hypocrite.
Plus let's be frank here, you will never perceive a guy with a foreign name and a heavy accent as a "canadian".

I get what you're saying, but if I ever move to Russia you won't see me waving my flag around.

[Mr.K]

It's falling under the "you-can't-paint-your-house-in-pink" kind of law.



I get what you're saying, but if I ever move to Russia you won't see me waving my flag around.

I'm not waving mine either and not planning to.:)

[matthew.manhorn]

Just let it be, don't try to support or prevent cultural assimilation in a forceful way...like those ****ty "fusion dishes" or other multiculturalism propaganda.

...Those butthurt white nationalists always cry about assimilation when in fact Italy was the first European nation to rise from the Dark Ages due to Eastern influences and how the Brits get to have their afternoon tea thanks to Eastern influences as well.

[Delay]

I don't really like these people who constantly flash their nationality to everybody. In the last days of the war in Sri Lanka, the Tamil community organised a march to Parliament Hill and asked the gov to do something about the situation and it's the same thing for every community (Iranian, Italian, Greek, Chinese, etc.) every time there's problem in their country of origin. Another example, a Greek, for the last Euro Cup, painted is garage door like the Greek flag and was asked to remove it (that douche is still arguing in court...). "I'm (insert a nationality) and then I'm Canadian"... If you don't feel any attachement for the country who accepted you and you're so goddamn proud why don't you go back there? I don't know, I find it disrespectful.

I really hope your not a francophone because this would be the most ridiculous/hypocritical rant I ever read.

[Bulletproof]

I really hope your not a francophone because this would be the most ridiculous/hypocritical rant I ever read.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Red_Rage]

Agree!

Disagree, it's private propriety comradep-), and there was nothing offensive in his painting, although i'm not for it. I'm really against the flag-waving douchebags.





During Euro Cup and World Cup everyone has the right to be a flag waving douche bag, that's what makes it fun :)

3-1 Russia - Netherlands pretty much shut down several major intersections in Toronto for a few hours... good times.

[Mr.K]

During Euro Cup and World Cup everyone has the right to be a flag waving douche bag, that's what makes it fun :)

3-1 Russia - Netherlands pretty much shut down several major intersections in Toronto for a few hours... good times.

I find it as retarded as Chechen flags and typical kavkaz youth behavior in Moscow.
Just a personal point of view.p-)

[Delay]

Obvious troll is obvious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec

Quebecers are "special".
Statut particulier ("special status")

Given the province's heritage and the preponderance of French (unique among the Canadian provinces), there is an ongoing debate in Canada regarding the unique status (statut particulier) of Quebec and its people, wholly or partially. Prior attempts to amend the Canadian constitution to acknowledge Quebec as a 'distinct society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinct_society)' – referring to the province's uniqueness within Canada regarding law, language, and culture – have been unsuccessful; however, the federal government under Prime Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Canada) Jean Chrétien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chr%C3%A9tien) would later endorse recognition of Quebec as a "unique society".[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec#cite_note-29) On October 30, 2003, the National Assembly of Quebec voted unanimously to affirm "that the Quebecers form a nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation)".[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec#cite_note-30) On November 27, 2006, the House of Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_House_of_Commons) passed a symbolic motion moved by Prime Minister Stephen Harper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Harper) declaring that "this House recognize[s] that the Québécois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French-speaking_Quebecer) form a nation within a united Canada."[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec#cite_note-31)[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec#cite_note-32)[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec#cite_note-33) However, there is considerable debate and uncertainty over what this means.[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec#cite_note-34)[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec#cite_note-35)
At present, nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_nationalism) plays a large role in the politics of Quebec, with all three major provincial political parties seeking greater autonomy and recognition of Quebec's unique status. In recent years, much attention has been devoted to examining and defining the nature of Quebec's association with the rest of Canada. Currently, the population is roughly divided between two political visions for the future of their province.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] About 40% of Quebecers support the idea of either full sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty) (completely separating from Canada and forming an independent state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state)) or of sovereignty-association with the rest of Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement), which would entail the sharing of some institutional and governmental responsibilities with the federal government in a manner similar to how the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) shares a common currency and various other services. On the other hand, a slightly larger faction of Quebecers are satisfied with the status quo and wish their province to remain within a united Canadian federation.


On October 30, 1995, with the Parti Québécois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_Qu%C3%A9b%C3%A9cois) back in power since 1994, a second referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum) on sovereignty took place. This time, it was rejected by a slim majority (50.6% NO to 49.4% YES); a clear majority of French-speaking Quebecers voted in favour of sovereignty.

[Bulletproof]

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by posting random nonsense. I don't argue with trolls.